=== jtisme is now known as jtholmes
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk
pittiGood morning08:38
didrocksGuten Tag Her Pitti ;)08:41
didrockspitti: did you have a good flight?08:42
pittihey didrocks08:42
pittididrocks: yes, uneventful; slept 3 hours, which is pretty good for my standards in a plane :)08:42
pittididrocks: how about you?08:42
didrockspitti: good, thanks. Only slept 2 hours :( We arrived one hour in advance, but wait for 30 minutes before the plane can get a gate.08:43
didrocksstill a little bit tired, but less than expected :)08:44
* pitti gets some breakfast08:44
didrocksenjoy your breakfast08:45
chrisccoulsonhello everyone09:24
pittihey chrisccoulson! how are you?09:24
chrisccoulsonpitti - good thanks. how are you? did you have a good week?09:25
pittiyes, it was great; still feeling a bit weak (jetlag, lack of sleep in plane, etc.), but that will be fine soon :)09:25
didrockshey chrisccoulson!09:26
chrisccoulsonwhen did you arrive back?09:26
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks09:26
pittichrisccoulson: yesterday around noon09:26
chrisccoulsonyeah, i think i would probably be quite tired too ;)09:27
seb128hello chrisccoulson pitti09:27
chrisccoulsonhey seb12809:28
seb128chrisccoulson, how are you?09:28
didrockshello seb128 :)09:28
seb128chrisccoulson, the baby arrived?09:28
seb128I had no time for IRC during UDS09:28
seb128hey didrocks09:28
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i'm ok. we have a baby now :)09:28
pittibonjour seb12809:28
seb128everybody doing fine?09:28
chrisccoulsonshe arrived on tuesday09:28
seb128lut pitti09:28
pittichrisccoulson: congratulations! So I guess you have a reason to be tired, too?09:28
* pitti hugs chrisccoulson09:29
* pitti hugs seb128, too09:29
chrisccoulsonyeah, they're doing ok. had to stay in hospital a couple of days, but they got back home on friday09:29
* seb128 hugs chrisccoulson pitti09:29
pittiseb128: I tried my 16 hours fasting -- seems to have worked ok09:29
* seb128 hugs didrocks09:29
* chrisccoulson hugs pitti and seb12809:29
* didrocks hugs pitti, seb128 and chrisccoulson :)09:29
seb128pitti, when did you sleep this night?09:29
* seb128 did midnight to 10am09:29
pittiusually after a trip from US to home it takes me like 4 hours to find some sleep09:29
seb128still a bit tire09:29
pittiyesterday I went to bed at 22:30, and fell asleep after 10 mintues; I woke up at 8:3009:30
seb128well, easy to find sleep09:30
* chrisccoulson hugs didrocks09:30
didrocks21h15 - 6h45 for me :)09:30
seb128just don't sleep in the plane09:30
pittiseb128: but I only slept 3 hours in the plane, so I had good reason to be tired09:30
pittididrocks: well09:30
seb128after skipping a night you usually crash easily09:30
seb128pitti, yeah, same here09:31
seb128I didn't sleep much this time in the plane09:31
seb128I finished my book instead!09:31
didrocksseb128: were you so interested in the movies? :)09:31
didrocksah ;)09:31
seb128no, but I was interested in my book and in being tired enough to sleep later09:32
pittiseb128: I read the vala tutorial and did some first exercises09:33
pittivala is pretty nice, although vastly underdocumented09:34
pittiI'll fiddle a bit more to get my d-bus example working and then post it to the vala wiki09:34
seb128ah good09:34
mptWhere could I find the algorithm that maps a Desktop Menu Specification category <http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html> into an Ubuntu "Applications" menu category?11:01
mpte.g. that takes an application with "Category: Network" and puts it in "Internet"11:02
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
chrisccoulsonmpt - i'm not sure if it's what you are looking for, but the menu structure defined in /etc/xdg/menus has all of that information (about which categories appear in each sub-menu)11:21
chrisccoulsonspecifically, applications.menu for the default menu11:21
mptchrisccoulson, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks11:22
chrisccoulsonyou're welcome11:23
czajkowskianyoe seen similar issues using gwibber 2.0 ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/48706412:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 487064 in gwibber "Message pane repaints frequently and resets the scroll status, losing reading position" [Undecided,New]12:02
czajkowskihuats: aloha12:35
huatshey czajkowski12:35
huatsare you ok, not suffering from the jetlatg ?12:36
czajkowskihuats: I'm not too bad thanks, rested yesterday and went to bed last night early. back at work today12:36
czajkowskihuats: congrats on loco council :)12:37
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
huatsczajkowski, hum... I think I can congrat you too !12:38
czajkowski:) true12:39
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
rickspencer3salut seb12814:17
seb128lut rickspencer314:17
seb128hey tedg14:17
rickspencer3good morning pitti, ccheney` asac etc...14:17
tedgGood morning seb12814:17
asacrickspencer3: hey14:18
seb128rickspencer3, http://picasaweb.google.com/sdelcroix/FSpot#540729987320785765014:18
seb128hey asac14:18
seb128rickspencer3, upstream f-spot already did the "edit in viewer"14:18
* asac hugs seb128 14:18
seb128he pinged me today about what we need and did it during lunch time apparently14:19
rickspencer3seb128, seriously?14:19
seb128said it was trivial to do since the code was already there14:19
rickspencer3that is awesome14:19
seb128it just needed to make it available in view mode14:19
rickspencer3FOSS ftw!14:19
pittihey rickspencer3!14:22
rickspencer3hi pitti14:22
rickspencer3here we go again ;)14:22
pittiseb128: that sounds like the wrong way? I thought we want the button in eog to "edit in f-spot"?14:23
rickspencer3pitti, maybe, but we need editability in the view mode anyway14:23
seb128pitti, f-spot need to be able to edit...14:24
rickspencer3currently you have to load images into the library to edit them14:24
pittiseb128: ah, I understand14:24
seb128then we can add the eog button14:24
pittiso it's unrelated to that14:24
seb128not really14:24
seb128the "add an eog button" is easy14:24
seb128but if you don't have anything to call from there...14:24
rickspencer3pitti, well, only in that there would be no point in putting in an "edit" button if f-spot couldn't edit ;)14:24
pittiMacSlow, seb128: btw, any chance we could make lucid's notify-osd a little less hideously looking by removing the lines?14:25
seb128pitti, +114:27
kenvandifpitti, i think he will want those turned on for a little while14:27
seb128kenvandif, he wants urgency to be on screen14:28
seb128the layout lines are probably of no use14:28
kenvandifgood point14:28
kenvandifperhaps those are both enabled by the same debug setting14:28
seb128kenvandif, hey btw, did you see the f-spot comment?14:28
=== kenvandif is now known as kenvandine
pittiit's not that my design-untrained eye will ever report a bug against off-by-one pixels or so14:28
kenvandineseb128, awesome14:29
seb128kenvandine, right, which is why we ask now if we could have different level or option or turn layout lines14:29
kenvandineseb128, i guess he didn't close the bug though (f-spot), i didn't get mail about it14:29
seb128MacSlow, I agree with pitti, whatever way is easier for you but having a way to have only the colored bar would be nicer14:29
asacpitti: hi. what is planned work-item wise this cycle? e.g. what improvements to tools etc.14:29
seb128kenvandine, no, he might still be tweaking14:30
* kenvandine figured it should be trivial14:30
kenvandineDBO has a patch which lets  you browse all photos in the current directory, even if you didn't specifically open them14:30
seb128he's also asking for what other changes we need14:30
seb128or want to get done14:31
seb128he = sde14:31
asacoh ... just found a mail about subscribing to work-items.py etc.14:31
seb128he would welcome design team though about edit mode too14:31
kenvandinewe want him to merge that patch, i will make sure we add it to the bug14:31
seb128ie how to conciliate browsing and editing14:31
kenvandineseb128, who is workong on it?14:31
seb128using sidepane for both14:31
seb128or having a grid similar to f-spot library14:31
kenvandineseb128, rickspencer3 also prefers having the browse sidebar on the bottom like eog does it14:32
kenvandinebasically rickspencer3's request was to make it look just like eog :)14:32
pittiasac: I might add support for using bugs as WIs, but it's not there yet14:32
pittiasac: thus so far we have whiteboard or wiki page14:32
pittiasac: I'd rather ask it the other way round: is there something that your team needs/wants urgently?14:32
asacpitti: ok thanks .... where is that workitems.py thing for the subscription lool asked for?14:33
rickspencer3kenvandine, right, I'd also like a nicer looking button bar, like in EOG14:33
pittiasac: it's running on my server, and I set the MAILTO to you now14:33
pittiasac: i. e. you'll be spammed with "this BP has no work items defined", or "invalid WI status"14:33
rickspencer3howver, I feel that the editing ability is the requirement, the rest are nice to have14:33
pittiasac: http://piware.de/bzr/bin/workitems.py14:34
asacpitti: nothing needed atm. maybe some doc what the current syntax allows in whiteboard (e.g. i know there was ways to assign work items to individual membmers != assignee)14:34
asacpitti: ok great. let me bookmark it14:34
pittiasac: doc> right, I need to set that up14:34
pittiasac: the "assignee" one was mere convention right now ("[asac] do foo")14:34
pittiasac: once I add a per-assignee report, I'll parse that14:35
asacpitti: did the mobile team run that script on their own or was the graph generated for them by you too?14:35
pittiasac: all on my machine so far14:35
asacok http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html14:36
asaci assume i need to ping you when we are done with work items so you can reset the trend line starting point?14:36
asacpitti: ?14:36
pittiasac: exactly14:37
pittiasac: i. e. I can either trash the DB for a clean start, or just adjust the starting #14:37
asacright. thx a lot. great service ;)14:37
asacpitti: one thing i wonder if we can better support it: e.g. we want to do targetting for alpha-2 etc ... is there a way we can make burndowns for those milestones somehow? do you plan to do something like that for desktop team?14:39
pittiasac: right, that's in fact on my TODO list14:41
pittisince we all have these three subcycles14:41
asacgood ... so we could use general "spec" milestones, but i guess this needs to be done on a per-work-item base14:43
pittiasac: for now I only plan to parse spec-level milestones14:45
pittiasac: as soon as we have support for using bugs, we can of course use WI-level granularity14:46
seb128pitti, how come apport is outdated in ubuntu? ;-)14:48
* seb128 looks at the versions.html list today14:48
pittiseb128: ah, I did a new upstream release last Friday to test lp-project-upload14:48
pittiso it's in fact true :)14:48
mannyvseb128, serialorder here, sorry for all those sync request bugs. I thought since they showed up on piware.de they had failed to autosync for some reason.14:53
seb128mannyv, hey14:53
seb128mannyv, no problem, but no, autosync are run manually so not every day14:53
seb128and we sync from testing by default this cycle14:53
seb128but usually if a version in ubuntu is coming directly from debian no need to bother14:54
Laneyis anyone processing the -archive queue?14:54
seb128Laney, I've started doing autosync14:54
seb128will have a look to sync and new after that14:54
seb128I expect there is quite some lag after uds14:55
Laneyyes it's huge14:55
Laneyprepare yourself ;)14:55
rickspencer3according to slashdot their is a large group of people who are technical enough to depend on the gimp, but not technical enough to install new software on their desktop14:55
seb128I will no clean everything14:55
seb128but since half of archive admin are on holidays this week I will try to do some14:55
Laneydoes autosync also do new packages?14:56
Laneyor is that a separate run14:56
seb128to be honest I really care about autosyncs catchup and desktop syncs and newing14:56
seb128I will probably let other things to other people14:56
seb128there is a different command to run for those14:57
seb128but I will run it too14:57
asacmvo: hi ;) ... did you recover from travel?15:10
asacmvo: what determines which package gets into software center? is that whatever has a .desktop file?15:10
asacand ... is there a way to tweak this?15:11
seb128asac, I guess that's .desktop but there was a spec at uds about listing other things there15:14
Amaranthhey, people talk here again15:15
Amaranthoh, right, UDS over :)15:15
seb128hey Amaranth15:15
Tm_TAmaranth: nono, go back to sleep15:15
seb128Amaranth, how are you?15:15
Amaranthoops, was reading scrollback15:23
Amaranthseb128: good, did you have a good trip back from texas?15:23
seb128yes thanks15:23
seb128I managed to read in the plane and sleep a bit, correspondance was easy to get no need to run, everything went smoothly15:24
seb128and I managed to sleep at normal hours yesterday15:24
seb128so all good15:24
Amaranthdang, was hoping I could get you guys on US time :)15:24
seb128Amaranth, so, we need to speed compiz this cycle any plan or hint for that?15:26
seb128Amaranth, is your version not using the wrapper good to go in lucid?15:26
Amaranthseb128: well I showed it to upstream and they noticed a small memory leak in the blacklist checking but I've fixed that now15:27
Amaranththat plus splitting up the packaging more will likely be all the speedup we get15:27
seb128do you have any clue about how much speed up that will be?15:28
AmaranthUnless we want to do something crazy like backport the module loading setup from the 0.9 branch (master)15:28
pittiAmaranth: splitting up packaging> into plugins we enable by default, and an "extra-plugins" kind of pacakge?15:28
AmaranthThen we will not have to read XML on start15:29
pittiAmaranth: "crazy" describes the challenge we face well15:29
pittiAmaranth: we have to cut down desktop startup time by 2/3..15:29
Amaranthpitti: Well, it would completely change the plugin interface ABI15:29
seb128well, if we don't get it to run quick enough no compiz by default anymore in lucid15:30
pittiAmaranth: that alone doesn't scare me at all two weeks after opening a release :)15:30
Amaranthcompositing in general will slow down login time15:30
Amaranthalso it seems kind of silly that we're fighting for a 10 second boot+login then in 10.10 running gnome-shell will change that to 20 seconds15:31
seb128we never said we would take gnome-shell without any consideration15:31
seb128we will ponder pro and con before any change15:31
mvoasac: yes and yes15:32
mvoasac: mostly recovered anyway15:32
mvoasac: what do you need in s-c ?15:32
Amaranthin that case bring on the crazy15:32
seb128compositing makes things slower but there is no reason to be that slow15:32
AmaranthI wish we could get upstream releases of 0.9.x faster though :/15:33
seb128do you have any clue how much difference the new loader will do?15:33
seb1280.9 is not on the table for lucid15:33
AmaranthI know, thus the :(15:33
Amarantherr, :/15:33
AmaranthIf 0.9 had come out before karmic release I think it would have been feasible even if karmic didn't actually end up with an 0.9 release15:34
seb128what would have a been feasible?15:34
Amaranthusing 0.9/0.10 in lucid15:34
asacmvo: just saw a mail by bdrung about eclipse on devel-discuss (and tha the wrong package is included in sc)15:35
asacmvo: maybe you can follow up directly there?15:35
Amaranthnot that it matters now, we'll likely see 0.9 in time to stick it in lucid+115:35
seb128Amaranth, it's not in the table even if 0.9 was available next month15:35
seb128we will not change the compiz codebase in a lts when we have no compiz maintainer15:35
AmaranthBut I have no idea how much time not loading the XML will save, benchmarking compiz is tricky15:35
seb128robert_ancell will be on oem shift this cycle15:35
seb128not that you don't do a rocking job there15:36
AmaranthI'd likely just have to do it and see what bootchart says15:36
seb128but better to be on the safe side15:36
seb128what do you suggest doing then?15:36
AmaranthIt has to make some kind of difference though, it freaking loads XML using XPath15:37
seb1281- use you ppa version with wrapper changes15:37
seb1282- don't install the things we don't use15:37
seb1283- look at the new loader?15:37
Amaranththe changes to drop the wrapper should go into lucid ASAP15:37
AmaranthThen once we have an idea on the default settings we can split up the packaging15:37
seb128are those ready for upload?15:37
seb128in which case I can have a look to that today or tomorrow15:37
Amaranthlet me build again with the new patch and push15:37
seb128we have an idea of the default settings we want15:38
seb128we can do the binary change15:38
seb128we can tweak later if required15:38
Amaranthalthough splitting the packaging up is not going to make much of a difference15:39
Amaranthand will make almost no difference at all if we change the plugin loader to not load XML15:39
seb128what is taking time if that's not the loader?15:40
seb128we want to split those anyway so people installing cssm don't get too much crack15:41
Amaranththe shell script and redirecting existing windows15:41
seb128hi paul15:41
* paul wonders if there are any #gwibber people here15:42
seb128Amaranth, ok, so let's get this wrapper changer as a first step15:42
seb128paul, talk to kenvandine15:42
Amaranthshould I name the packages compiz-plugins-universe or something?15:42
paulseb128: cheers :)15:42
seb128Amaranth, yes15:42
AmaranthCan't use compiz-plugins-extra because then we'd have compiz-fusion-plugins-extra-extra :)15:42
seb128universe sounds good15:42
seb128we already have extras, etc15:43
AmaranthIdeally we wouldn't use anything from extras but alas15:43
seb128what do we need from there?15:43
paulkenvandine: hey, just wondering if you know whether bug 487064 will be a trivial fix or not? (i.e. should I go back to 1.4)15:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 487064 in gwibber "Message pane repaints frequently and resets the scroll status, losing reading position" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48706415:43
Amaranthseb128: hmm, I actually can't think of anything15:44
Amaranthlet me check what we load by default again15:44
kenvandinepaul, not sure15:46
kenvandinei don't think that is happening here15:46
rickspencer3pitti, nice mail wrt work items, could I ask you to share it with other tech leads to help them get started?15:46
kenvandinepaul, can you run "gwibber-daemon -d" and gwibber in terminals to catch output?15:47
kenvandinei wonder if it is failing to render something and looping or something crazy15:47
asackenvandine: you can reproduce this by scrolling somewhere and hitting reload15:48
kenvandinepaul, also which gwibber theme are you using?15:48
kenvandineasac, well on reload yes it does do that15:48
kenvandinewhich it probably shouldn't15:48
asacright. so i would expect every refresh to do that oo ;)15:48
kenvandinebut that is different, he says it happens even when it is set to refresh less often15:49
asaci dont think that reload is technically much different from refresh15:49
kenvandineit isn't15:49
kenvandineno different15:49
asacok ... so probably when daemon gets update (which is independent from refresh)15:49
Amaranthseb128: hehe, we only use plugins-extra for extrawm15:49
asacit triggers a UI refresh15:49
paulkenvandine: it's the default15:49
paulkenvandine: i can try that, yeah15:49
kenvandinebut if he is set to fetch updates every 15m15:49
asackenvandine: isnt that fetch update setting the UI trigger time?15:50
Amaranthseb128: and we don't even set any keybindings in extrawm so it doesn't get used at all15:50
asaci guess the daemon threads still keep on going as usual?15:50
kenvandineasac, we should make sure... but it should be the interval the daemon is set to use15:50
Amaranthseb128: so we can kick that one out to universe entirely15:51
kenvandinei scrolled mine down a little and left it sitting here and it hasn't moved15:51
kenvandinebut i am sure it will when it updates next15:51
seb128Amaranth, excellent15:51
kenvandineasac, paul's bug is that it does that every 10s or so15:51
Amaranthseb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper is the changes to get rid of the shell script15:55
paulkenvandine: well, it's not doing it now.. maybe it takes time or some other actions to manifest.15:55
paul(though, it has done across several restarts before, so i'm confident it's reproducable)15:55
seb128Amaranth, ok, thanks, will have a look to that in a bit15:55
AmaranthI don't know if mvo wants to make a karmic branch from the main compiz branch and I was hoping someone would look it over first so I pushed it there instead of the main branch15:55
paullets wait 15 min till it does its next fetch of new messages15:56
seb128mvo, ^ want to do that or should I have a look to those changes?15:56
paulkenvandine: yes, my problem is it will update the UI pane every 10s or so - no new messages15:57
czajkowskipaul: aloha15:57
paulczajkowski: [ALOLRA protocol changes to state m1_waiting]15:58
czajkowskipaul: I'm safe from ye lot on freenode :)15:58
paulczajkowski: ooh, i see you're iLolra on this server ;)15:58
kenvandinepaul, could it be images loading?15:58
paulkenvandine: it could15:58
kenvandineso the images loading push everything down as they come in15:59
kenvandinewhich is very annoying15:59
AmaranthOh, I forgot I also refreshed all the patches so it looks like a lot of changes15:59
kenvandinebut once they are all downloaded it should say put15:59
AmaranthThe only real changes are to the packaging stuff and the 060 patch15:59
paulkenvandine: its not a push down - its a reset back to the top15:59
kenvandineok, so it isn't that15:59
pauli.e. the scroll slider gets reset to beginning15:59
paulkenvandine: ok, its not the images loading - i just scrolled down to a point where there were still images to be loaded and they got painted without any scroll-state reset16:00
czajkowskikenvandine: you got back ok then. tired from a long week ?16:02
kenvandineyeah :)16:02
kenvandineand you?16:02
kenvandinepaul, what version of webkit?16:02
mvoseb128: I planed to look at it, but maybe not today16:02
kenvandinepaul, actually can you post the webkit version to the bug?16:02
czajkowskiyeah 6am yesterday. Was slithgly wrecked, back at work today and no wanting to be here :) 1 hr left though16:02
mvoAmaranth: I can branch karmic if there is a need for this, not sure, there is some pending stuff, so its probably a good idea16:02
seb128mvo, ok thanks16:02
paulkenvandine: sure16:02
kenvandineczajkowski, i was anxious to get to work... lots of stuff to do now that uds is over :)16:02
czajkowskikenvandine: I've all my gobby docs downloaded and glanced at them last night and see my name against a good few tasks ;)16:03
kenvandinegood :)16:03
czajkowskifor lucid I've defiantely got some clear goals and tasks to get through for community16:03
paulkenvandine: 1.1.10 (webkit)16:05
kenvandineok, we have in ubuntu16:05
kenvandinei'll talk to ryan and see if he has ideas16:06
paulkenvandine: i may update to F12 at some stage, which has 1.1.1516:07
paulthough, that might not be till around christmas..16:07
kenvandineyeah, but i would like to see if that is the problem16:08
czajkowskipaul: see amazing what hapens when you log and dont just keep whinging on twitter and annoying me :)16:09
paulkenvandine: ok, i might have an F12 test system i can try (dont use it as dsktop at mo)16:10
paulczajkowski: indeed16:10
kenvandinepaul, that would actually be great16:10
kenvandinereally help narrow the scope16:10
czajkowskipaul: bugs = fixes :)16:10
kenvandinethat pane is rendered with webkit, so seems most like it would be the culprit16:10
paulkenvandine: ok, it's happening (but large interval) - nothing in the debug output for either daemon or app16:11
paulkenvandine: interesting16:11
paulkenvandine: it handles the scroll state too then?16:12
paulwait, i might be assuming that16:12
kenvandinepaul, yes... most likely16:13
kenvandinethat could be javascript16:13
paulkenvandine: ok, seems i need to leave it a while / use it a while16:17
paulkenvandine: fwiw, it's not leaving 15 minutes between updates16:22
paulits more like 516:22
* Ng files bug #487165 and wonders if other people get that without transparent windows and think everything has somehow crashed16:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 487165 in compiz "screensaver unlock dialog under other windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48716516:25
mptmvo, I found "man apturl"16:34
mvompt: great, I'm not sure if it covers it fully, but it should be good enough to give a overview16:38
mptmvo, it gives examples of multiple packages (foo,bar), sections (foo?section=universe), and PPAs16:39
mptmvo, in future it would be nice to have a syntax for departments, and a syntax for canned searches16:40
mptand apt.ubuntu.com equivalents for all of the above16:40
mvompt: makes sense, could you just mail me about it, I think we can add this trivially16:41
mvompt: the only one I found is "minver=1.0" to ensure the package has the right version16:42
* mvo is away for a bit for lunch16:42
seb128mvo, still on us time? ;-)16:49
mptmvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=240&rev1=23816:49
mvompt: thanks17:08
mvoseb128: yes, at least my brain17:09
mptmvo, adding those other URLs is v4-type stuff, no need to worry about it now :-)17:09
* mpt -> home17:09
pittirickspencer3: can do17:15
paulkenvandine: bingo - i think i know whats causing the refresh - searches17:33
paulkenvandine: they seem to get scheduled very frequently at times17:34
paul(with the general message pane open - not a search specific pane even)17:34
paulkenvandine: i had a run of 3 updates just there, circa 40s, 7s and 13s apart.17:35
kenvandinepaul, so you have a search stream open right, but you are in the messages pane?17:38
paulkenvandine: i have some searches defined yes17:39
* kenvandine tries that17:39
paulkenvandine: there tend to be a few twitter tags i keep an eye on, some on a permanent basis.17:39
paul(though, i have the searches defined 'globally', ifthat makes sense)17:39
paulkenvandine: i've 5 searches at the mo17:40
kenvandineok, i've reproduced it?17:41
paulw00t :)17:41
kenvandinepaul, can you comment to that affect on the bug?17:41
kenvandineand i will assign it to myself17:41
kenvandinethis is bad... :)17:41
paulkenvandine: already did ;)17:42
paulkenvandine: it's a tad annoying, yes.17:42
paul(don't get me wrong - gwibber rocks, thanks v much ;) )17:42
paulkenvandine: also, the general scheduling seems fubar17:42
paulkenvandine: e.g. even without searches, it's updating every 5 min - though i asked for 15min17:43
kenvandinepaul, i have a fix for that already17:43
kenvandinei noticed that after you mentioned it this morning17:43
paulkenvandine: also, if you happen to be in the general area, it'd be nice if searches got saved.17:43
kenvandinei have a fix  already17:43
paulfinally, could you reconsider the bug i referred to, which was "Won't Fix" (about not reseting scroll state on reload)17:44
kenvandinesaved searches is a little harder17:44
kenvandinei think it is planned for 2.117:44
kenvandinewhich bug?17:44
paulhmm, it's not closed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/32717217:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 327172 in gwibber "Gwibber lists jump to top of page when updated" [Medium,Confirmed]17:45
kenvandinepaul, thx!17:53
czajkowskipaul: see this was much easier ;)17:54
paulczajkowski: he ;)17:55
dobeypitti, seb128: if either of you are around, do you think bug #487224 is something we could put in an SRU? or is it something we just have to do in lucid at this point?18:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 487224 in gnome-power-manager "Depends on notification-daemon but should Recommends instead" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48722418:32
pittidobey: fine for lucid, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal for karmic?18:34
pitti(btw, your debdiff is broken)18:35
dobeyit is? hrmm18:35
dobeyhow is it broken?18:36
pittiwell, it contains a lot of unrelated changes and changelog entries18:38
pittidobey: if there's a lot of demand for it, it's small enough to be SRUable; did you see a lot of complaints?18:40
dobeyoh i just attached the .diff.gz from doing debuild18:40
dobeypitti: not a lot but there is someone wanting us to add an option to hide notifications in ubuntuone-client-applet18:41
dobeyand i was just wondering if notify-osd could just be totally removed for people who don't want notifications18:41
dobeyand i saw gnome-power-manager ubuntu-desktop and update-manager wanted to get removed also18:42
dobeypitti: is there some special command i need to run to get the diff between the two versions instead?18:43
dobeythis is a new process to me :)18:43
AmaranthHrm, mvo says compiz-wrapper is used by KDE18:58
AmaranthI can't see where18:58
Amaranthldm depends on it for some reason though18:59
mac_vdobey: hi... who is doing the work in implementing the -symbolic icons?18:59
mac_vor mpt ? ^19:00
dobeymac_v: which part?19:01
dobeymac_v: there are several pieces of work that need to be done for it19:02
mac_vdobey: the rsvg part i guess[code-wise]19:03
dobeywell rsvg is somewhat unmaintained at the moment, so not sure who will do that19:04
dobeybut i think it already supports most all the stuff the symbolics will need19:05
mac_vdobey: hmm , mainly I like to know the color to be used in the icons , once it is known what color to use , I can convert the icons already present in Karmic and the extra icons that I have already done, there seems to be enthusiasm in the community too regarding these icons , so by Lucid UI freeze we can get a lot more icons done19:07
dobeymac_v: color to be used? the color will be determined by the gtk+ theme19:08
dobeymac_v: the svg will need some specific data on the path/group to be "colorized by code" though19:08
mac_vdobey: so we can use any color in the icons? and the color would just change to the gtk+ defined one? iirc mpt's idea mentioned the use of a specific color19:08
mac_vif thats not needed then awesome :)19:09
dobeythere was discussion of using a specific color, but we decided it should be an id on the object/group i believe19:10
dobeytedg: ^^ id on the object/group correct, and not specific color?19:10
=== eeejay_a` is now known as eeejay
tedgI thought we were going to use CSS named colors.19:10
tedgThe fact that Inkscape doesn't really support them is part of the issue.19:11
mac_vdobey: thats actually good and kinda bad , if we dont need a specific then less work needed to port the icons... But then how to we use red to show warnings19:11
tedgSo I was thinking that a quick hack would be to replace some specific colors with names.19:11
dobeymac_v: you just use red to show warnings19:12
dobeymac_v: the red wouldn't get colored by gtk+19:12
dobeytedg: ah ok, that makes sense19:12
mac_vdobey: so those wont be having a -symbolic tag ? ok cool19:12
dobeywell, ideally, the -symbolic names wouldn't need to exist19:13
dobeybut i guess some people want to have the same icons in color in some places, and monochrome in others19:13
dobeywhich i am not fond of19:13
dobeybut eh19:13
mac_vtedg: is there a bug to track this ?19:14
tedgmac_v: Not that I'm aware of.  A blueprint would probably make more sense.19:14
tedgThere should be one since it had a session at UDS.19:15
tedgmpt: Is there a blueprint for symbolic icons?19:15
dobeytedg: kwwii set that session up, so he'd be the one to ask i guess19:15
mac_vthere is a wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SymbolicIcons19:16
dobeymac_v: i think that's just the notes from the gobby doc for it :)19:17
mac_vdobey: yup , but i dont think there is a blueprint... I'm searching for one atm19:18
mac_vdobey: on a different topic > is this something you want to do for Lucid > https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/humanity/+spec/request-ubuntu-one-file-icon19:20
mac_vUbuntu can carry a patch I suppose19:20
dobeymac_v: i don't think we should do that, no19:20
dobeymac_v: and given our plan for lucid is "allow arbitrary directory syncing" i don't think it fits at all :)19:20
mac_veither way , is Fine with me :)19:21
dobeymac_v: then resolving won't fix is the best answer i guess :)19:25
mannyvin kickstart when i select the leave options there is no shutdown or reboot19:32
mannyvwrong channel19:32
mac_vdobey: hmm ,regarding the -symbolic names...  there would be a problem if there is not separate symbolic name , otherwise icons which are not meant/designed to be monochrome would end up being rendered monochrome and indistinguishable.19:33
mac_vBTW , gnome3 seems to being going monochrome too , in the status area19:34
pittigood night everyone19:34
dobeymac_v: there wouldn't be a problem. naming != design19:37
dobeynight pitti19:37
mac_vdobey: hmm , there wouldnt... thats good... I just imagined that if the -symbolic wasnt implemented then if the user switches to the gnome icon theme , the icons which aernt designed to be monochrome , would be turned monochrome... hmm , maybe once the work is done I'd understand how this works better.. :)19:40
dobeymac_v: the gnome-icon-theme icons wouldn't have the attributes in them (plus it only installs PNGs to the system anyway)19:42
dobeyor well, it will only install PNGs in 2.30 at least19:42
mac_vdobey: hmm , so this would affect a theme with svgs .. lol... humanity is the only odd one out then.. great :p19:43
dobeyonly if the SVGs marked the different paths with the named css colors or whatever19:44
mac_vah... got it :)19:45
dobeybut ideally, monochrome stuff wouldn't be part of the icon theme anyway. it would be private SVGs or font characters or cairo code19:45
baptistemm_someone intertested to package rhythmbox19:47
mac_vbaptistemm_: hmm , if i'm not mistaken ... isnt that a -motu topic/question ?19:48
baptistemm_ah someone already did it19:49
mac_vtedg: xchat uses a notification area icon , right ?where does xchat get the icon from?20:48
tedgmac_v: Not sure, probably installs it in /usr/share/pixmaps ?20:49
tedgMight put it in hicolor as well.20:49
mac_vdoh!.. i was looking only in /usr/share/icons/  !20:50
mac_vlet me check the pixmap icon :)20:50
mac_vaw, that didnt work :(20:52
seb128mac_v, /usr/share/xchat-gnome/icons/hicolor/scalable/20:59
mac_vseb128: hmm , i'm using the regular xchat :( .....21:00
seb128oh, dunno then21:01
mac_vdidnt like xchat-gnome since it doesnt display the user list ;)21:01
mac_vin the window21:01
seb128it does, you just have to click on a button, it doesn't stay on screen though21:01
mac_vactually , i found that icon a long time back , now i forgot where :(21:01
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_away
mac_vseb128: yeah , thats what i meant... i had to click the button everytime , thats was the only problem , hope kenvandine adds that function ;)21:03
seb128there is a patch waiting for review doing that21:03
mac_vseb128: ah , that would be great :)21:03
kenvandineseb128, it is actually a blocker for their upcoming release21:03
* mac_v not searches for bug to keep track ;)21:03
kenvandinei only noticed because of the patch i submitted was marked as a blocker too21:04
kenvandineand i looked over their list, they merged mine last week21:04
mac_vkenvandine: oh.. so that is not possible?21:04
kenvandineit will be in the next release yes21:04
seb128there is active xchat-gnome maintainers?21:04
kenvandinewhich i think is real soon21:04
seb128there has been no tarball for a while now21:05
kenvandineseb128, apparently21:05
mac_vkenvandine: ah , thats great :) , any bug number?21:05
kenvandinethey marked 10 or so bugs as blockers and already closed several21:05
kenvandinemac_v, one sec21:05
seb128kenvandine, bug #174624 has a debdiff21:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 174624 in xchat-gnome "No way to always show the user list" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17462421:05
seb128could you perhaps comment on it?21:05
seb128I was going to review it this week21:06
seb128but if upstream has commited a patch already better to use their version21:06
ubottuGnome bug 323488 in general "allow to customize chan/user lists position" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]21:06
mac_vkenvandine:  thanks :)21:07
kenvandineblocker for 0.26.2 release21:07
kenvandinemac_v, np21:07
=== eeejay_away is now known as eeejay
=== onestone___ is now known as onestone
TheMusoseb128: Hey there. You had an uneventful trip back?21:59
seb128TheMuso, hello, yes thanks21:59
seb128what about you?21:59
TheMusoseb128: Uneventful as well, its good to be back.22:00
rickspencer3good morning TheMuso22:01
TheMusoHey rickspencer3.22:01
bratscheDoes anyone here happen to know how gnome-panel and gdm-greeter determine which monitor to use?22:02
dobeynow we might all actually get some work done :)22:02
eeejayTheMuso, is uneventful the best you could hope for? ;)22:02
dobeybratsche: i think gnome-panel always uses "bottom left" or something. hence if you put a projector to the left of your laptop screen, and unplug the projector, you lose your panel22:03
dobeybratsche: of course, i could be wrong :)22:04
bratscheWell, I've noticed that on my systems gdm-greeter seems to display on monitor #1 for some reason, while everything else seems to happen on #0.  I haven't looked into the gdm-greeter code at all yet, was just curious.22:05
dobeymaybe it is just 022:05
bratscheI wrote a patch for gtk+ to expose API for querying the "primary monitor" from xrandr, but our display preferences util doesn't actually allow you to set the primary monitor so I'm not sure how useful this will be yet.22:06
dobeyi'm not sure gnome-panel does anything special, actually22:06
seb128gnome-panel uses the primary xrandr monitor I think22:06
bratscheSo I was thinking that if everyone is kind of doing their own thing we could standardize on using the xrandr primary monitor.22:06
seb128there is a bug open on the GNOME capplet about the "no way to set the primary monitor"22:07
seb128not sure what gdm does22:07
seb128but we got bugs similar to yours22:07
dobeybut i'm also happy just having one monitor, i just wish i could get one that was 300dpi22:07
dobeyanyway, it's time for me to call it a day22:07
dobeylater :)22:07
bratscheOkay cool.. I'll peek into gdm sometime to see what it's doing, and then I'll write to desktop-devel-list about it once I have more info.  Thanks seb128!22:07
bratscheLater dobey!22:07
seb128bratsche, gnome bug #59553122:08
ubottuGnome bug 595531 in general "gdm login is displayed on secondary monitor" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59553122:08
bratscheseb128: Thanks!22:09
seb128you're welcome22:09
seb128the bug is not very useful though22:09
seb128in any case thanks for working on the issue ;-)22:09
seb128bratsche, gnome bug #56471322:10
bratscheseb128: Well, I get a shitload of bugs filed against xsplash because you see xsplash on monitor #0, then gdm greeter on #1, then xsplash on #0.. so I would like to fix this properly. :)22:10
ubottuGnome bug 564713 in Display preferences "Need an option to select the primary display" [Minor,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56471322:10
seb128bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one22:11
seb128bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one22:11
seb128sorry about that22:11
TheMusoeeejay: Pretty much.22:11
seb128I think there was also a gnome-panel one22:11
seb128vuntz might know about this one, I don't find it now22:11
seb128bratsche, gnome bug #56294422:12
ubottuGnome bug 562944 in general "Make use of the randr 1.3 primary output" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56294422:12
seb128this one has useful comments22:13
bratscheAwesome, I added those to my gtk+ so I can track them.22:15
bratsche*to my gtk+ bug22:15
seb128hey robert_ancell, had a good trip back?22:25
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, made it back in one piece22:26
rickspencer3robert_ancell, you're back, I assumed you would still be on a boat or somethign22:27
robert_ancellrickspencer3, I am on a boat.  They have internet at least ;)22:27
seb128robert_ancell, are you already on eom tasks or still doing desktop this week?22:30
robert_ancellseb128, still desktop until contacted by oem (as confirmed by Alice).  They are supposed to be contacting me this week22:31
seb128good ;-)22:31
seb128there are still quite some updates and merges to do22:32
seb128you are welcome to do the gdm 2.29 update and review patches for upstream if you want22:32
bratscheHi robert_ancell22:32
robert_ancellbratsche, hey22:33
TheMusoHey robert_ancell.22:33
robert_ancellTheMuso, hey hey22:33
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_away
robert_ancellrickspencer3, did you see http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/11/unleash-your-f-spot-toolbox.html23:00
* rickspencer3 looks23:01
rickspencer3robert_ancell, yes, I saw23:02
rickspencer3this seems like a great solutin23:02
robert_ancellyeah if the startup time can be improved then this would be great23:03
rickspencer3in the meantime, seems many people are deeply concerned about the set of people who are technical enough to need Gimp in their distro, but not technical enough to install it23:03
rickspencer3kudos to Stephane, nice to see someone taking a "can do" approach to a problem23:03
bryceyeah sweet23:04
brycethe ui looks spiff too23:04
robert_ancellrickspencer3, yeah, we really need the "editors pick" for those people23:04
brycealthough in comparison to gimp, that's not hard *duck*23:05
seb128still lacks a nice way to get edit options though23:05
seb128right now it requires displaying the sidebar and changing the mode to edit23:05
rickspencer3yeah, it should do edit by default23:06
seb128upstream is open to suggestions on how to do that nicely23:06
rickspencer3or, would be nice if the edit functions were in a toolbar23:06
seb128well, default is collection23:06
seb128ie it lists all the images in the folder23:06
seb128which some users like too...23:06
rickspencer3maybe a -edit option23:06
seb128I like to the toolbar idea23:06
rickspencer3so if you load it with "edit with f-spot" it defaults one way, and "view with f-spot" defaults the other23:06
seb128or at least display the edit pane from a toolbar toggle or something23:07
brycewould you guys like to see something scary?  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg23:07
bryceheh, I have to increase my graph boundary limits now23:07
seb128do you count all bugs or only open ones?23:07
bryceseb128, this is just open bugs23:08
rickspencer3bryce,  are the new bugs spread out, or do some areas account for more than others23:08
seb128it would be interesting to see if all distro follow the same curve23:09
rickspencer3or at least all packages in Ubuntu23:09
seb128ie if we have an increasing number of users or if xorg is buggier23:09
bryceit's fairly well spread23:09
rickspencer3maybe we *think* x is buggy because bryce is good at measuring it23:09
rickspencer3if they are spread out evenly, it suggest more users = more bug reports23:10
seb128my gut feeling is that we would have a similar curve on GNOME23:10
rickspencer3as apposed to more buggy23:10
seb128I had the feeling the bug number was increasing on GNOME set too23:10
bryceI have a suspicion that there may be a kernel patch that broke resolution detection and is causing a lot of bug reports.  I sent the kernel guys an email this morning regarding this.23:10
seb128but we don't have good tools or metric there23:10
brycebut it's equally possible that we just have the same old bugs, but now have a lot more users filing them23:11
* rickspencer3 gets back to writing23:11
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_

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