[08:38] <pitti> Good morning
[08:41] <didrocks> Guten Tag Her Pitti ;)
[08:42] <didrocks> pitti: did you have a good flight?
[08:42] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:42] <pitti> didrocks: yes, uneventful; slept 3 hours, which is pretty good for my standards in a plane :)
[08:42] <pitti> didrocks: how about you?
[08:43] <didrocks> pitti: good, thanks. Only slept 2 hours :( We arrived one hour in advance, but wait for 30 minutes before the plane can get a gate.
[08:44] <didrocks> still a little bit tired, but less than expected :)
[08:44]  * pitti gets some breakfast
[08:45] <didrocks> enjoy your breakfast
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[09:24] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - good thanks. how are you? did you have a good week?
[09:25] <pitti> yes, it was great; still feeling a bit weak (jetlag, lack of sleep in plane, etc.), but that will be fine soon :)
[09:26] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> when did you arrive back?
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[09:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yesterday around noon
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i would probably be quite tired too ;)
[09:27] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson pitti
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:28] <didrocks> hello seb128 :)
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the baby arrived?
[09:28] <seb128> I had no time for IRC during UDS
[09:28] <seb128> hey didrocks
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok. we have a baby now :)
[09:28] <seb128> good!
[09:28] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:28] <seb128> everybody doing fine?
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> she arrived on tuesday
[09:28] <seb128> lut pitti
[09:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: congratulations! So I guess you have a reason to be tired, too?
[09:29]  * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
[09:29]  * pitti hugs seb128, too
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> yeah, they're doing ok. had to stay in hospital a couple of days, but they got back home on friday
[09:29]  * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson pitti
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: I tried my 16 hours fasting -- seems to have worked ok
[09:29]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[09:29]  * chrisccoulson hugs pitti and seb128
[09:29]  * didrocks hugs pitti, seb128 and chrisccoulson :)
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, when did you sleep this night?
[09:29]  * seb128 did midnight to 10am
[09:29] <pitti> usually after a trip from US to home it takes me like 4 hours to find some sleep
[09:29] <seb128> still a bit tire
[09:29] <seb128> tired
[09:30] <pitti> yesterday I went to bed at 22:30, and fell asleep after 10 mintues; I woke up at 8:30
[09:30] <seb128> excellent
[09:30] <seb128> well, easy to find sleep
[09:30]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
[09:30] <didrocks> 21h15 - 6h45 for me :)
[09:30] <seb128> just don't sleep in the plane
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: but I only slept 3 hours in the plane, so I had good reason to be tired
[09:30] <pitti> didrocks: well
[09:30] <seb128> after skipping a night you usually crash easily
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, yeah, same here
[09:31] <seb128> I didn't sleep much this time in the plane
[09:31] <seb128> I finished my book instead!
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: were you so interested in the movies? :)
[09:31] <didrocks> ah ;)
[09:32] <seb128> no, but I was interested in my book and in being tired enough to sleep later
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: I read the vala tutorial and did some first exercises
[09:34] <pitti> vala is pretty nice, although vastly underdocumented
[09:34] <pitti> I'll fiddle a bit more to get my d-bus example working and then post it to the vala wiki
[09:34] <seb128> ah good
[11:01] <mpt> Where could I find the algorithm that maps a Desktop Menu Specification category <http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html> into an Ubuntu "Applications" menu category?
[11:02] <mpt> e.g. that takes an application with "Category: Network" and puts it in "Internet"
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> mpt - i'm not sure if it's what you are looking for, but the menu structure defined in /etc/xdg/menus has all of that information (about which categories appear in each sub-menu)
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> specifically, applications.menu for the default menu
[11:22] <mpt> chrisccoulson, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome
[11:54] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:02] <czajkowski> anyoe seen similar issues using gwibber 2.0 ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/487064
[12:28] <huats> morning
[12:35] <czajkowski> huats: aloha
[12:35] <huats> hey czajkowski
[12:36] <huats> are you ok, not suffering from the jetlatg ?
[12:36] <czajkowski> huats: I'm not too bad thanks, rested yesterday and went to bed last night early. back at work today
[12:36] <huats> ok
[12:37] <czajkowski> huats: congrats on loco council :)
[12:38] <huats> czajkowski, hum... I think I can congrat you too !
[12:38] <huats> :D
[12:39] <czajkowski> :) true
[14:17] <rickspencer3> salut seb128
[14:17] <seb128> lut rickspencer3
[14:17] <seb128> hey tedg
[14:17] <rickspencer3> good morning pitti, ccheney` asac etc...
[14:17] <tedg> Good morning seb128
[14:18] <asac> rickspencer3: hey
[14:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, http://picasaweb.google.com/sdelcroix/FSpot#5407299873207857650
[14:18] <seb128> hey asac
[14:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, upstream f-spot already did the "edit in viewer"
[14:18]  * asac hugs seb128 
[14:19] <seb128> he pinged me today about what we need and did it during lunch time apparently
[14:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, seriously?
[14:19] <seb128> said it was trivial to do since the code was already there
[14:19] <rickspencer3> that is awesome
[14:19] <seb128> it just needed to make it available in view mode
[14:19] <rickspencer3> FOSS ftw!
[14:19] <seb128> ;-)
[14:22] <pitti> hey rickspencer3!
[14:22] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:22] <rickspencer3> here we go again ;)
[14:23] <pitti> seb128: that sounds like the wrong way? I thought we want the button in eog to "edit in f-spot"?
[14:23] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe, but we need editability in the view mode anyway
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, f-spot need to be able to edit...
[14:24] <rickspencer3> currently you have to load images into the library to edit them
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: ah, I understand
[14:24] <seb128> then we can add the eog button
[14:24] <pitti> so it's unrelated to that
[14:24] <seb128> not really
[14:24] <seb128> the "add an eog button" is easy
[14:24] <seb128> but if you don't have anything to call from there...
[14:24] <rickspencer3> pitti, well, only in that there would be no point in putting in an "edit" button if f-spot couldn't edit ;)
[14:25] <pitti> MacSlow, seb128: btw, any chance we could make lucid's notify-osd a little less hideously looking by removing the lines?
[14:27] <seb128> pitti, +1
[14:27] <kenvandif> pitti, i think he will want those turned on for a little while
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandif, he wants urgency to be on screen
[14:28] <kenvandif> yeah
[14:28] <seb128> the layout lines are probably of no use
[14:28] <kenvandif> oh...
[14:28] <kenvandif> good point
[14:28] <kenvandif> perhaps those are both enabled by the same debug setting
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandif, hey btw, did you see the f-spot comment?
[14:28] <pitti> it's not that my design-untrained eye will ever report a bug against off-by-one pixels or so
[14:29] <kenvandine> seb128, awesome
[14:29] <seb128> kenvandine, right, which is why we ask now if we could have different level or option or turn layout lines
[14:29] <kenvandine> seb128, i guess he didn't close the bug though (f-spot), i didn't get mail about it
[14:29] <seb128> MacSlow, I agree with pitti, whatever way is easier for you but having a way to have only the colored bar would be nicer
[14:29] <asac> pitti: hi. what is planned work-item wise this cycle? e.g. what improvements to tools etc.
[14:30] <seb128> kenvandine, no, he might still be tweaking
[14:30]  * kenvandine figured it should be trivial
[14:30] <kenvandine> DBO has a patch which lets  you browse all photos in the current directory, even if you didn't specifically open them
[14:30] <seb128> he's also asking for what other changes we need
[14:31] <seb128> or want to get done
[14:31] <seb128> he = sde
[14:31] <asac> oh ... just found a mail about subscribing to work-items.py etc.
[14:31] <seb128> he would welcome design team though about edit mode too
[14:31] <kenvandine> we want him to merge that patch, i will make sure we add it to the bug
[14:31] <seb128> ie how to conciliate browsing and editing
[14:31] <kenvandine> seb128, who is workong on it?
[14:31] <seb128> using sidepane for both
[14:31] <seb128> or having a grid similar to f-spot library
[14:32] <kenvandine> seb128, rickspencer3 also prefers having the browse sidebar on the bottom like eog does it
[14:32] <kenvandine> basically rickspencer3's request was to make it look just like eog :)
[14:32] <pitti> asac: I might add support for using bugs as WIs, but it's not there yet
[14:32] <pitti> asac: thus so far we have whiteboard or wiki page
[14:32] <pitti> asac: I'd rather ask it the other way round: is there something that your team needs/wants urgently?
[14:33] <asac> pitti: ok thanks .... where is that workitems.py thing for the subscription lool asked for?
[14:33] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, right, I'd also like a nicer looking button bar, like in EOG
[14:33] <pitti> asac: it's running on my server, and I set the MAILTO to you now
[14:33] <pitti> asac: i. e. you'll be spammed with "this BP has no work items defined", or "invalid WI status"
[14:33] <rickspencer3> howver, I feel that the editing ability is the requirement, the rest are nice to have
[14:34] <pitti> asac: http://piware.de/bzr/bin/workitems.py
[14:34] <asac> pitti: nothing needed atm. maybe some doc what the current syntax allows in whiteboard (e.g. i know there was ways to assign work items to individual membmers != assignee)
[14:34] <asac> pitti: ok great. let me bookmark it
[14:34] <pitti> asac: doc> right, I need to set that up
[14:34] <pitti> asac: the "assignee" one was mere convention right now ("[asac] do foo")
[14:35] <pitti> asac: once I add a per-assignee report, I'll parse that
[14:35] <asac> pitti: did the mobile team run that script on their own or was the graph generated for them by you too?
[14:35] <pitti> asac: all on my machine so far
[14:36] <asac> ok http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
[14:36] <asac> i assume i need to ping you when we are done with work items so you can reset the trend line starting point?
[14:36] <asac> pitti: ?
[14:37] <pitti> asac: exactly
[14:37] <asac> thx
[14:37] <pitti> asac: i. e. I can either trash the DB for a clean start, or just adjust the starting #
[14:37] <asac> right. thx a lot. great service ;)
[14:39] <asac> pitti: one thing i wonder if we can better support it: e.g. we want to do targetting for alpha-2 etc ... is there a way we can make burndowns for those milestones somehow? do you plan to do something like that for desktop team?
[14:41] <pitti> asac: right, that's in fact on my TODO list
[14:41] <pitti> since we all have these three subcycles
[14:43] <asac> good ... so we could use general "spec" milestones, but i guess this needs to be done on a per-work-item base
[14:45] <pitti> asac: for now I only plan to parse spec-level milestones
[14:46] <pitti> asac: as soon as we have support for using bugs, we can of course use WI-level granularity
[14:47] <asac> kk
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, how come apport is outdated in ubuntu? ;-)
[14:48]  * seb128 looks at the versions.html list today
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: ah, I did a new upstream release last Friday to test lp-project-upload
[14:48] <pitti> so it's in fact true :)
[14:49] <seb128> hehe
[14:53] <mannyv> seb128, serialorder here, sorry for all those sync request bugs. I thought since they showed up on piware.de they had failed to autosync for some reason.
[14:53] <seb128> mannyv, hey
[14:53] <seb128> mannyv, no problem, but no, autosync are run manually so not every day
[14:53] <seb128> and we sync from testing by default this cycle
[14:54] <seb128> but usually if a version in ubuntu is coming directly from debian no need to bother
[14:54] <Laney> is anyone processing the -archive queue?
[14:54] <seb128> Laney, I've started doing autosync
[14:54] <seb128> will have a look to sync and new after that
[14:55] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[14:55] <seb128> I expect there is quite some lag after uds
[14:55] <Laney> yes it's huge
[14:55] <Laney> prepare yourself ;)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> according to slashdot their is a large group of people who are technical enough to depend on the gimp, but not technical enough to install new software on their desktop
[14:55] <seb128> I will no clean everything
[14:55] <seb128> but since half of archive admin are on holidays this week I will try to do some
[14:56] <Laney> does autosync also do new packages?
[14:56] <Laney> or is that a separate run
[14:56] <seb128> to be honest I really care about autosyncs catchup and desktop syncs and newing
[14:56] <seb128> I will probably let other things to other people
[14:57] <seb128> there is a different command to run for those
[14:57] <seb128> but I will run it too
[14:57] <Laney> alright
[15:10] <asac> mvo: hi ;) ... did you recover from travel?
[15:10] <asac> mvo: what determines which package gets into software center? is that whatever has a .desktop file?
[15:11] <asac> and ... is there a way to tweak this?
[15:14] <seb128> asac, I guess that's .desktop but there was a spec at uds about listing other things there
[15:15] <Amaranth> hey, people talk here again
[15:15] <Amaranth> oh, right, UDS over :)
[15:15] <seb128> hey Amaranth
[15:15] <Tm_T> Amaranth: nono, go back to sleep
[15:15] <seb128> Amaranth, how are you?
[15:23] <Amaranth> oops, was reading scrollback
[15:23] <Amaranth> seb128: good, did you have a good trip back from texas?
[15:23] <seb128> yes thanks
[15:24] <seb128> I managed to read in the plane and sleep a bit, correspondance was easy to get no need to run, everything went smoothly
[15:24] <Amaranth> lucky
[15:24] <seb128> and I managed to sleep at normal hours yesterday
[15:24] <seb128> so all good
[15:24] <Amaranth> dang, was hoping I could get you guys on US time :)
[15:26] <seb128> Amaranth, so, we need to speed compiz this cycle any plan or hint for that?
[15:26] <seb128> Amaranth, is your version not using the wrapper good to go in lucid?
[15:27] <Amaranth> seb128: well I showed it to upstream and they noticed a small memory leak in the blacklist checking but I've fixed that now
[15:27] <Amaranth> that plus splitting up the packaging more will likely be all the speedup we get
[15:28] <seb128> do you have any clue about how much speed up that will be?
[15:28] <Amaranth> Unless we want to do something crazy like backport the module loading setup from the 0.9 branch (master)
[15:28] <pitti> Amaranth: splitting up packaging> into plugins we enable by default, and an "extra-plugins" kind of pacakge?
[15:29] <Amaranth> Then we will not have to read XML on start
[15:29] <pitti> Amaranth: "crazy" describes the challenge we face well
[15:29] <pitti> Amaranth: we have to cut down desktop startup time by 2/3..
[15:29] <Amaranth> pitti: Well, it would completely change the plugin interface ABI
[15:30] <seb128> well, if we don't get it to run quick enough no compiz by default anymore in lucid
[15:30] <pitti> Amaranth: that alone doesn't scare me at all two weeks after opening a release :)
[15:30] <Amaranth> compositing in general will slow down login time
[15:31] <Amaranth> also it seems kind of silly that we're fighting for a 10 second boot+login then in 10.10 running gnome-shell will change that to 20 seconds
[15:31] <seb128> we never said we would take gnome-shell without any consideration
[15:31] <seb128> we will ponder pro and con before any change
[15:32] <mvo> asac: yes and yes
[15:32] <mvo> asac: mostly recovered anyway
[15:32] <mvo> asac: what do you need in s-c ?
[15:32] <Amaranth> in that case bring on the crazy
[15:32] <seb128> compositing makes things slower but there is no reason to be that slow
[15:33] <Amaranth> I wish we could get upstream releases of 0.9.x faster though :/
[15:33] <seb128> do you have any clue how much difference the new loader will do?
[15:33] <seb128> 0.9 is not on the table for lucid
[15:33] <Amaranth> I know, thus the :(
[15:33] <Amaranth> err, :/
[15:33] <Amaranth> hehe
[15:34] <Amaranth> If 0.9 had come out before karmic release I think it would have been feasible even if karmic didn't actually end up with an 0.9 release
[15:34] <Amaranth> anyway
[15:34] <seb128> what would have a been feasible?
[15:34] <Amaranth> using 0.9/0.10 in lucid
[15:35] <asac> mvo: just saw a mail by bdrung about eclipse on devel-discuss (and tha the wrong package is included in sc)
[15:35] <asac> mvo: maybe you can follow up directly there?
[15:35] <Amaranth> not that it matters now, we'll likely see 0.9 in time to stick it in lucid+1
[15:35] <seb128> Amaranth, it's not in the table even if 0.9 was available next month
[15:35] <seb128> we will not change the compiz codebase in a lts when we have no compiz maintainer
[15:35] <Amaranth> But I have no idea how much time not loading the XML will save, benchmarking compiz is tricky
[15:35] <seb128> robert_ancell will be on oem shift this cycle
[15:36] <seb128> not that you don't do a rocking job there
[15:36] <Amaranth> I'd likely just have to do it and see what bootchart says
[15:36] <seb128> but better to be on the safe side
[15:36] <seb128> what do you suggest doing then?
[15:37] <Amaranth> It has to make some kind of difference though, it freaking loads XML using XPath
[15:37] <seb128> 1- use you ppa version with wrapper changes
[15:37] <seb128> 2- don't install the things we don't use
[15:37] <seb128> 3- look at the new loader?
[15:37] <Amaranth> the changes to drop the wrapper should go into lucid ASAP
[15:37] <seb128> ok
[15:37] <Amaranth> Then once we have an idea on the default settings we can split up the packaging
[15:37] <seb128> are those ready for upload?
[15:37] <seb128> in which case I can have a look to that today or tomorrow
[15:37] <Amaranth> let me build again with the new patch and push
[15:38] <seb128> thanks
[15:38] <seb128> we have an idea of the default settings we want
[15:38] <seb128> we can do the binary change
[15:38] <seb128> we can tweak later if required
[15:39] <Amaranth> although splitting the packaging up is not going to make much of a difference
[15:39] <Amaranth> and will make almost no difference at all if we change the plugin loader to not load XML
[15:40] <seb128> what is taking time if that's not the loader?
[15:41] <seb128> we want to split those anyway so people installing cssm don't get too much crack
[15:41] <Amaranth> the shell script and redirecting existing windows
[15:41] <paul> hey...
[15:41] <seb128> hi paul
[15:42]  * paul wonders if there are any #gwibber people here
[15:42] <seb128> Amaranth, ok, so let's get this wrapper changer as a first step
[15:42] <Amaranth> alright
[15:42] <seb128> paul, talk to kenvandine
[15:42] <Amaranth> should I name the packages compiz-plugins-universe or something?
[15:42] <paul> seb128: cheers :)
[15:42] <seb128> Amaranth, yes
[15:42] <Amaranth> Can't use compiz-plugins-extra because then we'd have compiz-fusion-plugins-extra-extra :)
[15:42] <seb128> universe sounds good
[15:43] <seb128> we already have extras, etc
[15:43] <seb128> right
[15:43] <Amaranth> Ideally we wouldn't use anything from extras but alas
[15:43] <seb128> what do we need from there?
[15:43] <paul> kenvandine: hey, just wondering if you know whether bug 487064 will be a trivial fix or not? (i.e. should I go back to 1.4)
[15:44] <Amaranth> seb128: hmm, I actually can't think of anything
[15:44] <Amaranth> let me check what we load by default again
[15:46] <kenvandine> paul, not sure
[15:46] <kenvandine> i don't think that is happening here
[15:46] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice mail wrt work items, could I ask you to share it with other tech leads to help them get started?
[15:47] <kenvandine> paul, can you run "gwibber-daemon -d" and gwibber in terminals to catch output?
[15:47] <kenvandine> i wonder if it is failing to render something and looping or something crazy
[15:48] <asac> kenvandine: you can reproduce this by scrolling somewhere and hitting reload
[15:48] <kenvandine> paul, also which gwibber theme are you using?
[15:48] <kenvandine> asac, well on reload yes it does do that
[15:48] <kenvandine> which it probably shouldn't
[15:48] <asac> right. so i would expect every refresh to do that oo ;)
[15:49] <kenvandine> but that is different, he says it happens even when it is set to refresh less often
[15:49] <asac> i dont think that reload is technically much different from refresh
[15:49] <asac> hmm
[15:49] <kenvandine> it isn't
[15:49] <kenvandine> no different
[15:49] <asac> ok ... so probably when daemon gets update (which is independent from refresh)
[15:49] <Amaranth> seb128: hehe, we only use plugins-extra for extrawm
[15:49] <asac> it triggers a UI refresh
[15:49] <paul> kenvandine: it's the default
[15:49] <paul> kenvandine: i can try that, yeah
[15:49] <kenvandine> but if he is set to fetch updates every 15m
[15:50] <asac> kenvandine: isnt that fetch update setting the UI trigger time?
[15:50] <Amaranth> seb128: and we don't even set any keybindings in extrawm so it doesn't get used at all
[15:50] <asac> i guess the daemon threads still keep on going as usual?
[15:50] <kenvandine> asac, we should make sure... but it should be the interval the daemon is set to use
[15:51] <Amaranth> seb128: so we can kick that one out to universe entirely
[15:51] <kenvandine> i scrolled mine down a little and left it sitting here and it hasn't moved
[15:51] <kenvandine> but i am sure it will when it updates next
[15:51] <seb128> Amaranth, excellent
[15:51] <kenvandine> asac, paul's bug is that it does that every 10s or so
[15:55] <Amaranth> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper is the changes to get rid of the shell script
[15:55] <paul> kenvandine: well, it's not doing it now.. maybe it takes time or some other actions to manifest.
[15:55] <paul> (though, it has done across several restarts before, so i'm confident it's reproducable)
[15:55] <seb128> Amaranth, ok, thanks, will have a look to that in a bit
[15:55] <Amaranth> I don't know if mvo wants to make a karmic branch from the main compiz branch and I was hoping someone would look it over first so I pushed it there instead of the main branch
[15:56] <paul> lets wait 15 min till it does its next fetch of new messages
[15:56] <seb128> mvo, ^ want to do that or should I have a look to those changes?
[15:57] <paul> kenvandine: yes, my problem is it will update the UI pane every 10s or so - no new messages
[15:57] <czajkowski> paul: aloha
[15:58] <paul> czajkowski: [ALOLRA protocol changes to state m1_waiting]
[15:58] <czajkowski> paul: I'm safe from ye lot on freenode :)
[15:58] <paul> czajkowski: ooh, i see you're iLolra on this server ;)
[15:58] <kenvandine> paul, could it be images loading?
[15:58] <paul> kenvandine: it could
[15:59] <kenvandine> so the images loading push everything down as they come in
[15:59] <kenvandine> which is very annoying
[15:59] <Amaranth> Oh, I forgot I also refreshed all the patches so it looks like a lot of changes
[15:59] <kenvandine> but once they are all downloaded it should say put
[15:59] <Amaranth> The only real changes are to the packaging stuff and the 060 patch
[15:59] <paul> kenvandine: its not a push down - its a reset back to the top
[15:59] <kenvandine> ok, so it isn't that
[15:59] <paul> i.e. the scroll slider gets reset to beginning
[16:00] <paul> kenvandine: ok, its not the images loading - i just scrolled down to a point where there were still images to be loaded and they got painted without any scroll-state reset
[16:02] <czajkowski> kenvandine: you got back ok then. tired from a long week ?
[16:02] <kenvandine> yeah :)
[16:02] <kenvandine> and you?
[16:02] <kenvandine> paul, what version of webkit?
[16:02] <mvo> seb128: I planed to look at it, but maybe not today
[16:02] <kenvandine> paul, actually can you post the webkit version to the bug?
[16:02] <czajkowski> yeah 6am yesterday. Was slithgly wrecked, back at work today and no wanting to be here :) 1 hr left though
[16:02] <mvo> Amaranth: I can branch karmic if there is a need for this, not sure, there is some pending stuff, so its probably a good idea
[16:02] <seb128> mvo, ok thanks
[16:02] <paul> kenvandine: sure
[16:02] <kenvandine> czajkowski, i was anxious to get to work... lots of stuff to do now that uds is over :)
[16:03] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I've all my gobby docs downloaded and glanced at them last night and see my name against a good few tasks ;)
[16:03] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:03] <kenvandine> good :)
[16:03] <czajkowski> for lucid I've defiantely got some clear goals and tasks to get through for community
[16:05] <paul> kenvandine: 1.1.10 (webkit)
[16:05] <kenvandine> ok, we have 1.1.15.2-1 in ubuntu
[16:06] <kenvandine> i'll talk to ryan and see if he has ideas
[16:07] <paul> kenvandine: i may update to F12 at some stage, which has 1.1.15
[16:07] <paul> though, that might not be till around christmas..
[16:08] <kenvandine> yeah, but i would like to see if that is the problem
[16:09] <czajkowski> paul: see amazing what hapens when you log and dont just keep whinging on twitter and annoying me :)
[16:10] <kenvandine> :)
[16:10] <paul> kenvandine: ok, i might have an F12 test system i can try (dont use it as dsktop at mo)
[16:10] <paul> czajkowski: indeed
[16:10] <kenvandine> paul, that would actually be great
[16:10] <kenvandine> really help narrow the scope
[16:10] <czajkowski> paul: bugs = fixes :)
[16:10] <kenvandine> that pane is rendered with webkit, so seems most like it would be the culprit
[16:11] <paul> kenvandine: ok, it's happening (but large interval) - nothing in the debug output for either daemon or app
[16:11] <paul> kenvandine: interesting
[16:12] <paul> kenvandine: it handles the scroll state too then?
[16:12] <paul> wait, i might be assuming that
[16:13] <kenvandine> paul, yes... most likely
[16:13] <kenvandine> that could be javascript
[16:17] <paul> kenvandine: ok, seems i need to leave it a while / use it a while
[16:22] <paul> kenvandine: fwiw, it's not leaving 15 minutes between updates
[16:22] <paul> its more like 5
[16:25]  * Ng files bug #487165 and wonders if other people get that without transparent windows and think everything has somehow crashed
[16:34] <mpt> mvo, I found "man apturl"
[16:38] <mvo> mpt: great, I'm not sure if it covers it fully, but it should be good enough to give a overview
[16:39] <mpt> mvo, it gives examples of multiple packages (foo,bar), sections (foo?section=universe), and PPAs
[16:40] <mpt> mvo, in future it would be nice to have a syntax for departments, and a syntax for canned searches
[16:40] <mpt> and apt.ubuntu.com equivalents for all of the above
[16:41] <mvo> mpt: makes sense, could you just mail me about it, I think we can add this trivially
[16:42] <mvo> mpt: the only one I found is "minver=1.0" to ensure the package has the right version
[16:42]  * mvo is away for a bit for lunch
[16:49] <seb128> mvo, still on us time? ;-)
[16:49] <mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=240&rev1=238
[17:08] <mvo> mpt: thanks
[17:09] <mvo> seb128: yes, at least my brain
[17:09] <mpt> mvo, adding those other URLs is v4-type stuff, no need to worry about it now :-)
[17:09]  * mpt -> home
[17:15] <pitti> rickspencer3: can do
[17:33] <paul> kenvandine: bingo - i think i know whats causing the refresh - searches
[17:34] <paul> kenvandine: they seem to get scheduled very frequently at times
[17:34] <paul> (with the general message pane open - not a search specific pane even)
[17:35] <paul> kenvandine: i had a run of 3 updates just there, circa 40s, 7s and 13s apart.
[17:38] <kenvandine> humm
[17:38] <kenvandine> paul, so you have a search stream open right, but you are in the messages pane?
[17:39] <paul> kenvandine: i have some searches defined yes
[17:39]  * kenvandine tries that
[17:39] <paul> kenvandine: there tend to be a few twitter tags i keep an eye on, some on a permanent basis.
[17:39] <paul> (though, i have the searches defined 'globally', ifthat makes sense)
[17:40] <paul> kenvandine: i've 5 searches at the mo
[17:41] <kenvandine> ok, i've reproduced it?
[17:41] <kenvandine> s/?//
[17:41] <paul> w00t :)
[17:41] <kenvandine> paul, can you comment to that affect on the bug?
[17:41] <kenvandine> and i will assign it to myself
[17:41] <kenvandine> this is bad... :)
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: already did ;)
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: it's a tad annoying, yes.
[17:42] <paul> (don't get me wrong - gwibber rocks, thanks v much ;) )
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: also, the general scheduling seems fubar
[17:43] <kenvandine> :)
[17:43] <paul> kenvandine: e.g. even without searches, it's updating every 5 min - though i asked for 15min
[17:43] <kenvandine> paul, i have a fix for that already
[17:43] <kenvandine> :)
[17:43] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:43] <kenvandine> i noticed that after you mentioned it this morning
[17:43] <paul> kenvandine: also, if you happen to be in the general area, it'd be nice if searches got saved.
[17:43] <kenvandine> i have a fix  already
[17:44] <paul> finally, could you reconsider the bug i referred to, which was "Won't Fix" (about not reseting scroll state on reload)
[17:44] <kenvandine> saved searches is a little harder
[17:44] <kenvandine> i think it is planned for 2.1
[17:44] <paul> ok
[17:44] <kenvandine> which bug?
[17:45] <paul> hmm, it's not closed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/327172
[17:53] <kenvandine> paul, thx!
[17:54] <czajkowski> paul: see this was much easier ;)
[17:55] <paul> czajkowski: he ;)
[18:16] <pablin> hi
[18:32] <dobey> pitti, seb128: if either of you are around, do you think bug #487224 is something we could put in an SRU? or is it something we just have to do in lucid at this point?
[18:34] <pitti> dobey: fine for lucid, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal for karmic?
[18:35] <pitti> (btw, your debdiff is broken)
[18:35] <dobey> it is? hrmm
[18:36] <dobey> how is it broken?
[18:38] <pitti> well, it contains a lot of unrelated changes and changelog entries
[18:40] <pitti> dobey: if there's a lot of demand for it, it's small enough to be SRUable; did you see a lot of complaints?
[18:40] <dobey> oh i just attached the .diff.gz from doing debuild
[18:41] <dobey> pitti: not a lot but there is someone wanting us to add an option to hide notifications in ubuntuone-client-applet
[18:41] <dobey> and i was just wondering if notify-osd could just be totally removed for people who don't want notifications
[18:42] <dobey> and i saw gnome-power-manager ubuntu-desktop and update-manager wanted to get removed also
[18:43] <dobey> pitti: is there some special command i need to run to get the diff between the two versions instead?
[18:43] <dobey> this is a new process to me :)
[18:58] <Amaranth> Hrm, mvo says compiz-wrapper is used by KDE
[18:58] <Amaranth> I can't see where
[18:59] <Amaranth> ldm depends on it for some reason though
[18:59] <mac_v> dobey: hi... who is doing the work in implementing the -symbolic icons?
[19:00] <mac_v> or mpt ? ^
[19:01] <dobey> mac_v: which part?
[19:02] <dobey> mac_v: there are several pieces of work that need to be done for it
[19:03] <mac_v> dobey: the rsvg part i guess[code-wise]
[19:04] <dobey> well rsvg is somewhat unmaintained at the moment, so not sure who will do that
[19:05] <dobey> but i think it already supports most all the stuff the symbolics will need
[19:07] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , mainly I like to know the color to be used in the icons , once it is known what color to use , I can convert the icons already present in Karmic and the extra icons that I have already done, there seems to be enthusiasm in the community too regarding these icons , so by Lucid UI freeze we can get a lot more icons done
[19:07] <mac_v> I'd
[19:08] <dobey> mac_v: color to be used? the color will be determined by the gtk+ theme
[19:08] <dobey> mac_v: the svg will need some specific data on the path/group to be "colorized by code" though
[19:08] <mac_v> dobey: so we can use any color in the icons? and the color would just change to the gtk+ defined one? iirc mpt's idea mentioned the use of a specific color
[19:09] <mac_v> if thats not needed then awesome :)
[19:10] <dobey> there was discussion of using a specific color, but we decided it should be an id on the object/group i believe
[19:10] <dobey> tedg: ^^ id on the object/group correct, and not specific color?
[19:10] <tedg> I thought we were going to use CSS named colors.
[19:11] <tedg> The fact that Inkscape doesn't really support them is part of the issue.
[19:11] <mac_v> dobey: thats actually good and kinda bad , if we dont need a specific then less work needed to port the icons... But then how to we use red to show warnings
[19:11] <tedg> So I was thinking that a quick hack would be to replace some specific colors with names.
[19:12] <dobey> mac_v: you just use red to show warnings
[19:12] <dobey> mac_v: the red wouldn't get colored by gtk+
[19:12] <dobey> tedg: ah ok, that makes sense
[19:12] <mac_v> dobey: so those wont be having a -symbolic tag ? ok cool
[19:12] <mac_v> s/tag/name
[19:13] <dobey> well, ideally, the -symbolic names wouldn't need to exist
[19:13] <dobey> but i guess some people want to have the same icons in color in some places, and monochrome in others
[19:13] <dobey> which i am not fond of
[19:13] <dobey> but eh
[19:13] <mac_v> ;)
[19:14] <mac_v> tedg: is there a bug to track this ?
[19:14] <tedg> mac_v: Not that I'm aware of.  A blueprint would probably make more sense.
[19:15] <tedg> There should be one since it had a session at UDS.
[19:15] <tedg> mpt: Is there a blueprint for symbolic icons?
[19:15] <dobey> tedg: kwwii set that session up, so he'd be the one to ask i guess
[19:16] <mac_v> there is a wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SymbolicIcons
[19:17] <dobey> mac_v: i think that's just the notes from the gobby doc for it :)
[19:18] <mac_v> dobey: yup , but i dont think there is a blueprint... I'm searching for one atm
[19:20] <mac_v> dobey: on a different topic > is this something you want to do for Lucid > https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/humanity/+spec/request-ubuntu-one-file-icon
[19:20] <mac_v> Ubuntu can carry a patch I suppose
[19:20] <dobey> mac_v: i don't think we should do that, no
[19:20] <dobey> mac_v: and given our plan for lucid is "allow arbitrary directory syncing" i don't think it fits at all :)
[19:21] <mac_v> either way , is Fine with me :)
[19:25] <dobey> mac_v: then resolving won't fix is the best answer i guess :)
[19:32] <mannyv> in kickstart when i select the leave options there is no shutdown or reboot
[19:32] <mannyv> woops
[19:32] <mannyv> wrong channel
[19:33] <mac_v> dobey: hmm ,regarding the -symbolic names...  there would be a problem if there is not separate symbolic name , otherwise icons which are not meant/designed to be monochrome would end up being rendered monochrome and indistinguishable.
[19:34] <mac_v> BTW , gnome3 seems to being going monochrome too , in the status area
[19:34] <pitti> good night everyone
[19:37] <dobey> mac_v: there wouldn't be a problem. naming != design
[19:37] <dobey> night pitti
[19:40] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , there wouldnt... thats good... I just imagined that if the -symbolic wasnt implemented then if the user switches to the gnome icon theme , the icons which aernt designed to be monochrome , would be turned monochrome... hmm , maybe once the work is done I'd understand how this works better.. :)
[19:42] <dobey> mac_v: the gnome-icon-theme icons wouldn't have the attributes in them (plus it only installs PNGs to the system anyway)
[19:42] <dobey> or well, it will only install PNGs in 2.30 at least
[19:43] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , so this would affect a theme with svgs .. lol... humanity is the only odd one out then.. great :p
[19:44] <dobey> well
[19:44] <dobey> only if the SVGs marked the different paths with the named css colors or whatever
[19:45] <mac_v> ah... got it :)
[19:45] <dobey> but ideally, monochrome stuff wouldn't be part of the icon theme anyway. it would be private SVGs or font characters or cairo code
[19:47] <baptistemm_> someone intertested to package rhythmbox
[19:47] <baptistemm_> 0.12.6
[19:48] <mac_v> baptistemm_: hmm , if i'm not mistaken ... isnt that a -motu topic/question ?
[19:49] <baptistemm_> ah someone already did it
[20:48] <mac_v> tedg: xchat uses a notification area icon , right ?where does xchat get the icon from?
[20:49] <tedg> mac_v: Not sure, probably installs it in /usr/share/pixmaps ?
[20:49] <tedg> Might put it in hicolor as well.
[20:50] <mac_v> doh!.. i was looking only in /usr/share/icons/  !
[20:50] <mac_v> let me check the pixmap icon :)
[20:52] <mac_v> aw, that didnt work :(
[20:59] <seb128> mac_v, /usr/share/xchat-gnome/icons/hicolor/scalable/
[21:00] <mac_v> seb128: hmm , i'm using the regular xchat :( .....
[21:01] <seb128> oh, dunno then
[21:01] <mac_v> didnt like xchat-gnome since it doesnt display the user list ;)
[21:01] <mac_v> in the window
[21:01] <seb128> it does, you just have to click on a button, it doesn't stay on screen though
[21:01] <mac_v> actually , i found that icon a long time back , now i forgot where :(
[21:03] <mac_v> seb128: yeah , thats what i meant... i had to click the button everytime , thats was the only problem , hope kenvandine adds that function ;)
[21:03] <seb128> there is a patch waiting for review doing that
[21:03] <mac_v> s/function/feature
[21:03] <mac_v> seb128: ah , that would be great :)
[21:03] <kenvandine> seb128, it is actually a blocker for their upcoming release
[21:03]  * mac_v not searches for bug to keep track ;)
[21:04] <mac_v> now*
[21:04] <kenvandine> i only noticed because of the patch i submitted was marked as a blocker too
[21:04] <kenvandine> and i looked over their list, they merged mine last week
[21:04] <mac_v> kenvandine: oh.. so that is not possible?
[21:04] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:04] <kenvandine> now?
[21:04] <kenvandine> it will be in the next release yes
[21:04] <seb128> there is active xchat-gnome maintainers?
[21:04] <kenvandine> which i think is real soon
[21:05] <seb128> there has been no tarball for a while now
[21:05] <kenvandine> seb128, apparently
[21:05] <mac_v> kenvandine: ah , thats great :) , any bug number?
[21:05] <kenvandine> they marked 10 or so bugs as blockers and already closed several
[21:05] <kenvandine> mac_v, one sec
[21:05] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #174624 has a debdiff
[21:05] <seb128> could you perhaps comment on it?
[21:06] <seb128> I was going to review it this week
[21:06] <seb128> but if upstream has commited a patch already better to use their version
[21:06] <kenvandine> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323488
[21:07] <mac_v> kenvandine:  thanks :)
[21:07] <kenvandine> blocker for 0.26.2 release
[21:07] <kenvandine> mac_v, np
[21:59] <TheMuso> seb128: Hey there. You had an uneventful trip back?
[21:59] <seb128> TheMuso, hello, yes thanks
[21:59] <seb128> what about you?
[22:00] <TheMuso> seb128: Uneventful as well, its good to be back.
[22:01] <rickspencer3> good morning TheMuso
[22:01] <TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
[22:02] <bratsche> Does anyone here happen to know how gnome-panel and gdm-greeter determine which monitor to use?
[22:02] <dobey> now we might all actually get some work done :)
[22:02] <eeejay> TheMuso, is uneventful the best you could hope for? ;)
[22:03] <dobey> bratsche: i think gnome-panel always uses "bottom left" or something. hence if you put a projector to the left of your laptop screen, and unplug the projector, you lose your panel
[22:04] <dobey> bratsche: of course, i could be wrong :)
[22:05] <bratsche> Well, I've noticed that on my systems gdm-greeter seems to display on monitor #1 for some reason, while everything else seems to happen on #0.  I haven't looked into the gdm-greeter code at all yet, was just curious.
[22:05] <dobey> ah
[22:05] <dobey> maybe it is just 0
[22:06] <bratsche> I wrote a patch for gtk+ to expose API for querying the "primary monitor" from xrandr, but our display preferences util doesn't actually allow you to set the primary monitor so I'm not sure how useful this will be yet.
[22:06] <dobey> i'm not sure gnome-panel does anything special, actually
[22:06] <seb128> gnome-panel uses the primary xrandr monitor I think
[22:06] <bratsche> So I was thinking that if everyone is kind of doing their own thing we could standardize on using the xrandr primary monitor.
[22:07] <seb128> there is a bug open on the GNOME capplet about the "no way to set the primary monitor"
[22:07] <seb128> not sure what gdm does
[22:07] <seb128> but we got bugs similar to yours
[22:07] <dobey> but i'm also happy just having one monitor, i just wish i could get one that was 300dpi
[22:07] <dobey> anyway, it's time for me to call it a day
[22:07] <dobey> later :)
[22:07] <bratsche> Okay cool.. I'll peek into gdm sometime to see what it's doing, and then I'll write to desktop-devel-list about it once I have more info.  Thanks seb128!
[22:07] <bratsche> Later dobey!
[22:08] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #595531
[22:09] <bratsche> hot!
[22:09] <bratsche> seb128: Thanks!
[22:09] <seb128> you're welcome
[22:09] <seb128> the bug is not very useful though
[22:09] <seb128> in any case thanks for working on the issue ;-)
[22:10] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713
[22:10] <bratsche> seb128: Well, I get a shitload of bugs filed against xsplash because you see xsplash on monitor #0, then gdm greeter on #1, then xsplash on #0.. so I would like to fix this properly. :)
[22:11] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
[22:11] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
[22:11] <seb128> ups
[22:11] <seb128> sorry about that
[22:11] <bratsche> :)
[22:11] <TheMuso> eeejay: Pretty much.
[22:11] <seb128> I think there was also a gnome-panel one
[22:11] <seb128> vuntz might know about this one, I don't find it now
[22:12] <seb128> ah
[22:12] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #562944
[22:13] <seb128> this one has useful comments
[22:15] <bratsche> Awesome, I added those to my gtk+ so I can track them.
[22:15] <bratsche> *to my gtk+ bug
[22:25] <seb128> hey robert_ancell, had a good trip back?
[22:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, made it back in one piece
[22:27] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you're back, I assumed you would still be on a boat or somethign
[22:27] <rickspencer3> ?
[22:27] <rickspencer3> j/k
[22:27] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I am on a boat.  They have internet at least ;)
[22:27] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[22:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, are you already on eom tasks or still doing desktop this week?
[22:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, still desktop until contacted by oem (as confirmed by Alice).  They are supposed to be contacting me this week
[22:31] <seb128> ok
[22:31] <seb128> good ;-)
[22:32] <seb128> there are still quite some updates and merges to do
[22:32] <seb128> you are welcome to do the gdm 2.29 update and review patches for upstream if you want
[22:32] <bratsche> Hi robert_ancell
[22:33] <robert_ancell> bratsche, hey
[22:33] <TheMuso> Hey robert_ancell.
[22:33] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey hey
[23:00] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, did you see http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/11/unleash-your-f-spot-toolbox.html
[23:01]  * rickspencer3 looks
[23:02] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yes, I saw
[23:02] <rickspencer3> this seems like a great solutin
[23:03] <robert_ancell> yeah if the startup time can be improved then this would be great
[23:03] <rickspencer3> in the meantime, seems many people are deeply concerned about the set of people who are technical enough to need Gimp in their distro, but not technical enough to install it
[23:03] <rickspencer3> kudos to Stephane, nice to see someone taking a "can do" approach to a problem
[23:04] <bryce> yeah sweet
[23:04] <bryce> the ui looks spiff too
[23:04] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, we really need the "editors pick" for those people
[23:05] <bryce> although in comparison to gimp, that's not hard *duck*
[23:05] <seb128> still lacks a nice way to get edit options though
[23:05] <seb128> right now it requires displaying the sidebar and changing the mode to edit
[23:06] <rickspencer3> yeah, it should do edit by default
[23:06] <seb128> upstream is open to suggestions on how to do that nicely
[23:06] <rickspencer3> or, would be nice if the edit functions were in a toolbar
[23:06] <seb128> well, default is collection
[23:06] <seb128> ie it lists all the images in the folder
[23:06] <seb128> which some users like too...
[23:06] <rickspencer3> maybe a -edit option
[23:06] <seb128> I like to the toolbar idea
[23:06] <rickspencer3> so if you load it with "edit with f-spot" it defaults one way, and "view with f-spot" defaults the other
[23:07] <seb128> or at least display the edit pane from a toolbar toggle or something
[23:07] <bryce> would you guys like to see something scary?  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
[23:07] <seb128> urg
[23:07] <bryce> heh, I have to increase my graph boundary limits now
[23:07] <seb128> do you count all bugs or only open ones?
[23:07] <bryce> LOL
[23:08] <bryce> seb128, this is just open bugs
[23:08] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[23:08] <rickspencer3> bryce,  are the new bugs spread out, or do some areas account for more than others
[23:08] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:09] <seb128> it would be interesting to see if all distro follow the same curve
[23:09] <rickspencer3> or at least all packages in Ubuntu
[23:09] <seb128> ie if we have an increasing number of users or if xorg is buggier
[23:09] <bryce> it's fairly well spread
[23:09] <rickspencer3> maybe we *think* x is buggy because bryce is good at measuring it
[23:10] <rickspencer3> if they are spread out evenly, it suggest more users = more bug reports
[23:10] <seb128> my gut feeling is that we would have a similar curve on GNOME
[23:10] <rickspencer3> as apposed to more buggy
[23:10] <seb128> right
[23:10] <seb128> I had the feeling the bug number was increasing on GNOME set too
[23:10] <bryce> I have a suspicion that there may be a kernel patch that broke resolution detection and is causing a lot of bug reports.  I sent the kernel guys an email this morning regarding this.
[23:10] <seb128> but we don't have good tools or metric there
[23:11] <bryce> but it's equally possible that we just have the same old bugs, but now have a lot more users filing them
[23:11]  * rickspencer3 gets back to writing