[06:15] <DanRabbit> djsiegel1: my vote is this: At least switch "Home Folder" to "Home" the argument should be between "Home" and the short name. I agree that using "Home" would be better for documentation and in a lot of cases it would be easier to understand than the shortname. In my opinion, the only place the shortname should show up is when you are referring to the actual path (which we really shouldn't need to make the user aware of anyway
[15:58] <djsiegel> mac_v MDC1 DanRabbit DBO lamalex, check it out: http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-karmic-lucid/
[15:58] <djsiegel> let me know your thoughts
[15:58] <DBO> awesome djsiegel 
[15:59] <DBO> djsiegel, spending three weeks on the karmic ones is kinda cool kinda suck
[15:59] <djsiegel> yeah I know
[16:00] <DBO> the paper jam concept is great however
[16:00] <DBO> I like that
[16:00] <djsiegel> Was calling it "Deep Cuts" but ivanka suggested "Paper Jam" because it was "starting to sound like a slasher film"
[16:00] <djsiegel> lol
[16:56] <DanRabbit> djsiegel: looks good :) I like Paper Jam too :)
[18:51] <MDC1> djsiegel, sounds good - but looks like this one is more about applications rather than the complete "desktop" - maybe one jam should focus about the general desktop experience?
[18:51] <MDC1> oh.. crap, he wasn't online... i'll post it later :)
[19:10] <mac_v> djsiegel1: hey , the compiz settings was scheduled for alpha1 by mpt but the compiz paperjam is for round 9... might wanna have a look at ;)
[19:12] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Your papercuts proposal seems mostly very application specific and not the more general function based approach we discussed at UDS.
[19:13] <djsiegel1> ScottK: I agree, let's chat about it.
[19:13] <djsiegel1> Can you propose some topics for Paper Jams?
[19:13] <ScottK> Let me consider it.
[19:13] <djsiegel1> They don't have any bugs yet, so we can change them, this was just my proposal.
[19:14] <djsiegel1> I understand where you're coming from -- wanting to fix paper cuts that will benefit Kubuntu too, but I just need your help identifying them.
[19:17] <mac_v> djsiegel1: KDE is 1 bug per round right?
[19:18] <djsiegel1> There's no limit, at least 1 would be great
[19:18] <djsiegel1> ScottK, why don'
[19:18] <ScottK> mac_v: That was how we did it before.  The discussion at UDS was about the idea of getting away from DE specific definitions.
[19:18] <mac_v> ah ok
[19:18] <ScottK> Think about Ubuntu papercuts as Ubuntu the project, not Ubuntu the distro.
[19:19] <ScottK> I did hear from some people about reluctance to participate last time around due to feeling excluded.
[19:19] <djsiegel1> The bottom line is people will only work on the paper cuts that affect them
[19:19] <mac_v> yeah , it was a problem.. other versions did feel left out 
[19:20] <djsiegel1> I wouldn't expect to get many KDE users hacking GNOME paper cuts, or vice versa
[19:20] <djsiegel1> this is a community project, I am just here to give some structure and direction
[19:20] <djsiegel1> so if we get Kubuntu stakeholders to participate, that would be awesome
[19:21] <djsiegel1> I'm not sure what else there is to do, other than finding special paper cuts that affect Ubuntu the distro and Kubuntu the distro.
[19:21] <mac_v> ScottK: hmm, then why is the app specific schedule a problem , we can just have the synonymous app from the other DE in the scheduling.. would that be a problem?
[19:21] <ScottK> Well we have other DEs too.
[19:22] <ScottK> I'd rather talk about a papercuts focus on file management (to pick an example) and then have issues from whatever package that relate to that.
[19:23] <djsiegel1> ScottK: so, I need a commitment to fix some number of paper cuts from the Kubuntu community each milestone to swing this
[19:23] <mac_v> ah , then for instance we can rename the compiz jam to desktop effects jam?
[19:23] <djsiegel1> we got 1 per milestone for Kubuntu last cycle, and about 7 per milestone for Ubuntu (distro) last cycle
[19:23] <ScottK> djsiegel1: I think it's a bit of chicken/egg problem then.
[19:24] <ScottK> I think if we arranged it this way we'd get more participation (and I will commit to encourage people to help)
[19:24] <ScottK> mac_v: Yes.
[19:24] <djsiegel1> We're just speaking too abstractly for me to get a grip on this.
[19:25] <ScottK> OK.  I thought it was clear when we discussed it last week.
[19:25]  * ScottK guesses not then.
[19:25] <djsiegel1> nope, I need action items
[19:25] <djsiegel1> Your concern is that there's too much emphasis on Ubuntu the distro, and Kubuntu feels "excluded"
[19:25] <djsiegel1> I don't want anyone to feel excluded.
[19:26] <djsiegel1> At the end of the day, the patches come from the community, so I can be inclusive insofar as scheduling, promotion, design discussion is concerned.
[19:26] <djsiegel1> So, let's re-cast Paper Jams in terms of functional areas
[19:26] <djsiegel1> (desktop effects, not compiz; IM, not Empathy)
[19:27] <mac_v> ScottK: djsiegel1: what we can do is.. have 10bugs from Ubuntu and the other DE bugs will just be additions for the milestone , if they get fixed  , we make them part of the 10 per schedule... sound good?
[19:28] <ScottK> mac_v: I would suggest if you are continuing to consider things in narrow terms like Ubuntu the distro, you've missed my point.
[19:28] <djsiegel1> Well, I will get 10 Ubuntu (distro) paper cuts in each milestone, and accept any number of paper cuts for other DEs.
[19:28] <djsiegel1> ScottK: I think we get your point, but we can talk semantics until we're blue in the face but I need bug ids! :)
[19:28] <ScottK> djsiegel1: I think as long as the milestones are described in functional terms, I can work this.
[19:28] <djsiegel1> ok, sweet
[19:28] <mac_v> ScottK: the distro is not a problem , the problem is  , if we schedule a Xubuntu bug and it doesnt get fixed , then we'd be stcuk
[19:28] <mac_v> stuck*
[19:29] <djsiegel1> ScottK: I am going to edit my blog post, and change the milestones
[19:29] <ScottK> mac_v: As was discussed at UDS, if 100% of bugs get fixed, we are under scheduling.  To get the most out of the project, we need to over schedule.
[19:29] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Thanks.
[19:29] <djsiegel1> ScottK: can you add yourself to the papercutters team so you can add bugs to milestones?
[19:30] <djsiegel1> or do you have someone else in mind for that commitment?
[19:30] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Is it going to deluge me in bugmail (IIRC that's why seele left)?
[19:30] <mac_v> ScottK: yup , thats what i was saying or rather trying to say.. we overschedule bugs
[19:30] <djsiegel1> ScottK: ha! really?
[19:30] <ScottK> mac_v: But I think that's good.
[19:30] <djsiegel1> yeah, you will get a ton of bugmail
[19:30] <djsiegel1> just filter it
[19:30] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Then we need a different plan, because I get far too much already.
[19:30] <mac_v> ScottK: atleast 50mails per day ;)
[19:31] <ScottK> djsiegel1: For reasons that don't really make sense anymore, but I haven't had time to rectify, that's not particularly easy for me to do at the moment (filter it)
[19:31] <djsiegel1> ok
[19:32] <mac_v> ScottK: you can just ping us here , any bugs you like we can add them to the schedule
[19:32] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Can you make a LP list for paper-cutters and send the bugmail there.  Then the people that want it, can subscribe.
[19:32] <djsiegel1> ScottK: that sounds interesting, how do I do that?
[19:33] <ScottK> I don't recall the exact LP foo to do it, but there's a LP U/I for making a team mailing list and then once that's done you make it the contact address for the team.
[19:34] <mac_v> iirc if a team owns a project it will end-up receiving all the mails , no way around that
[19:35] <ScottK> mac_v: Yes, but if the team mailing address is a list, it all goes there.
[19:35] <ScottK> It only goes to all members if no team address is set.
[19:35] <mac_v> oh , ok
[19:37] <mac_v> ScottK: then the papercutter members wont receive all the mails... some bugs might get left out , or you might not be aware of a discussion on a bug
[19:37] <mac_v> unless they subscribe*
[19:38] <ScottK> This is true.
[19:39] <ScottK> So you choose between all members get all mails and some people don't join and some people get all the mails and some get none.
[19:40] <mac_v> ScottK: the some getting the mails is not the issue... for instance I mostly dont read bugs regarding KDE bugs , so those will get left out , unless someone is subscribed to the mails
[19:41] <mac_v> someone who knows the KDE problems that is*
[19:41] <ScottK> mac_v: That's true, but if I were going to do this, I'd subscribe to the individual bugs I was interested in.
[19:42] <mac_v> ScottK: yes...  that works when you know that a bug has been filed , but what about new bugs which get filed .. how would you keep track? [i'm just curious how this would work , thats all :)]
[19:43] <mac_v> new KDE bugs*
[19:44] <ScottK> I'd probably look at subscribed bugs periodically (much as I do with ubuntu-universe/main-sponsors.
[19:45] <mac_v> ScottK: hmm , thats sounds good... but we just need to make sure the other members do that too ;)
[19:45] <ScottK> Or subscribe to the list.  Their choice.
[19:52] <mac_v> djsiegel1: Bug #432395 and Bug #433207 seem to have patches and also have been sent upstream... just not sure if they are papercuts though...
[19:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 432395 in gnome-media "wrong behavior on cancel" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432395
[19:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 433207 in gnome-media "primary should be save optio." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433207
[20:11] <djsiegel1> ScottK: what is the KDE equiv. of Gwibber?
[20:11] <djsiegel1> and what should I mention for photos?
[20:12] <djsiegel1> Can you give me an app to mention for each milestone?
[20:12] <djsiegel1> *each paper jam
[20:17] <ScottK> djsiegel1: I think chotoq
[20:18] <ScottK> That's not how you spell it though
[20:33] <florob> Hy, I have problems using the indicator-applets python bindings. Specifically I'm trying to fix Gajim, but can't find any examples on how to use the current version
[20:34]  * ScottK hints ^^^ at tedg as I think he's your man.
[20:35] <tedg> florob: Morning.
[20:35] <florob> tedg, Evening
[20:36] <tedg> florob: Probably the best reference is this: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
[20:37] <florob> tedg, I read that, but it doesn't help me at all. I mean sure it has a list of available properties, but my problem is that everything looks like it should work I just can't tell for sure because I don't know how python-indicate is really supposed to be used
[20:37] <florob> And I should probably mention that it doesn't work :D
[20:37] <tedg> florob: Hmm, okay.  Did you look at the examples in the python-indicate package?
[20:38] <florob> tedg, no, didn't know there were some. I'll see if that helps me. Thanks
[20:40] <tedg> florob: Cool.  Hope that helps.  If not, and I'm not here, kenvandine is also a good guy to ask.
[20:40] <tedg> He actually *likes* Python ;)
[20:44] <dscassel> florob, you might want to check out the source for gwibber.  server.py gives some pretty clear examples.
[20:45] <florob> dscassel, I did, with the result that it can't work because it uses 9.04 api (at least in the version packaged in karmic)
[20:45] <florob> api of the indicate version in 9.04 that is
[20:48] <dscassel> florob, I got a simple indicator working this weekend based on what's in launchpad (bzr branch lp:gwibber).  I admit, tho, that I didn't go too deep into it.
[20:49] <florob> dscassel, yes, you are actually right. server.py is sane client.py is not (god knows why...).
[20:49] <florob> Depressingly Gajim does exactly the same thing :(
[20:58] <lamalex> djsiegel1: looks good
[20:58] <lamalex> im excited for some paper james
[20:58] <lamalex> jams
[21:06] <djsiegel1> lamalex: thanks, I hope we get some good one reported
[21:06] <djsiegel1> I fear I am going to spend some late nights pouring over gwibber's flaws...
[21:07] <lamalex> yeah, i think you definitely will
[21:12] <florob> tedg, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu tells me time should be in ISO8601 format, but a traceback tells me it should be a float. Am I missing something?
[21:14] <tedg> florob: It should be ISO8601.  I'm not sure how a float would work.
[21:14] <florob> tedg, seconds since epoche it seams :/
[21:37] <lamalex> seconds sine epoch would still not be a float
[21:41] <florob> lamalex, seconds and fractions thereof. Plus you can store an integer as a float just fine
[21:42] <florob> I also like how count is a string…