[01:05] <DarkwingDuck> weee finally home. I hate afternoon traffic
[01:18] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: you about?
[01:22] <nixternal> kind of
[01:22] <DarkwingDuck> Just wanted to let you know I figured out my BZR problem
[01:23] <DarkwingDuck> Oh, and thanks for that link
[01:32] <nixternal> no prob
[01:33] <nixternal> I am installing lucid on my netbook now...I have a really bad head ache, and I don't feel like sitting in my chair to get some work done...so I will probably go and lay down with the lil one
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> kk I'll talk later tonight
[01:33] <nixternal> thanks for the warning :p
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> LOL
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> Just wait till I start kicking you docs.
[01:34] <nixternal> heh, had this netbook for a couple of months, and it has already been back to dell twice
[01:34] <DarkwingDuck> I read up there ^^ thanks for the +1
[01:34] <DarkwingDuck> I didn't like the Dell... My Acer is nice
[01:34] <nixternal> I got my daughter the acer...i liked it...the dell mini 10v is nice
[01:34] <nixternal> I still think the best is the HPs
[01:35] <nixternal> you can't beat their keyboard
[01:35] <nixternal> the dell touchpad sucks ass though
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> I think I'm going to keep Karmic on mine for now. I'm loading up Lucid in a VM
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, HP has a VERY nice one.
[01:35] <nixternal> ya, probably for the best right now...I am a bit sadistic
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> I'm going to get a true tablet PC
[01:35] <nixternal> ya, I will probably go for one soon
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> run some tests on there.
[01:36] <DarkwingDuck> Also, it's just F-ing cool.
[01:36] <DarkwingDuck> and I think for a UI I'll modify KNE with a LCARS theme to solve my Star Trek love :D
[01:37] <nixternal> hehe
[01:37] <DarkwingDuck> holy wow.... I forgot how big Eclipse was.
[01:38] <nixternal> heh...my eclipse setup is fairly large
[01:38] <DarkwingDuck> I just found out that bzr was a eclipse plugin
[01:38] <DarkwingDuck> was=has
[01:38] <nixternal> ya, but last time I used it, it was garbage
[01:39] <txwikinger> nixternal: the new kernel has some problems
[01:39] <DarkwingDuck> I'll run a test but, I think I'll just edit then use the command line. It's kinda simple anyway
[01:39] <nixternal> txwikinger: what kind of problems?
[01:39] <txwikinger> suspend and/or audio IIRC
[01:40] <nixternal> i just used it in qemu and audio worked
[01:40] <txwikinger> rgreening knows.. he figured it out
[01:41] <dtchen> which HP?
[01:41] <dtchen> HP mini?
[01:41] <dtchen> if so, I have one I'm giving away (too much junk hw)
[01:41] <nixternal> ya
[01:41] <nixternal> the new hp mini?
[01:41] <dtchen> 11xx from about eight months ago, I think
[01:41] <dtchen> it's the same I mentioned some time back
[01:42] <rgreening> dell mini is what I hav
[01:42] <nixternal> hrmm, i thought you could encrypt with the live cd
[01:42] <dtchen> you can, but not by default
[01:42] <dtchen> you basically need to do cryptsetup and everything from ctrl+alt+F2 iirc
[01:42] <nixternal> 'Require my password to log in and to decrypt my home folder' is an option under the 'User Info' tab with the installer
[01:43] <dtchen> right, that's the ecryptfs home
[01:43] <nixternal> so I take it by setting that, then it encrypts my home directory? I didn't see an option anywhere else to encrypt the home directory
[01:43] <dtchen> that's correct
[01:43] <nixternal> cool
[01:44] <dtchen> that's a lot more usable than enciphered / imo
[01:44] <dtchen> my machine is dog slow because of it
[01:51] <Daskreech> nixternal: If something happens to the OS install how do you get back your data?
[01:51] <Daskreech> or dtchen :)
[01:52] <Daskreech> My computer seems to like to pull death scares on me every 6 months or so can I recover my data from out of an encrypted partition/home directory from a live CD by any means ?
[01:58] <nixternal> i haven't had that type of death, plus most of the stuff on my machine is in a VCS somewhere and/or Dropbox
[01:58] <nixternal> actually, all of my stuff is version controlled
[01:58] <dtchen> ^ what nixternal typed
[01:58] <dtchen> I rsync /var/lib, /etc, and ~
[01:59] <dtchen> within ~ I use bzr and git for standard xdg conffile dirs
[01:59] <nixternal> i should prolly rsync, but I am so used to 'svn ci'
[01:59] <maco> i backup "dpkg --get-selections" and /etc on the same spare hard drive that holds my /home
[01:59] <nixternal> i don't even do the dpkg --{get|set}-selections
[02:12] <Daskreech> nixternal, dtchen: Right that's never happened personally to either but can it be done?
[02:13] <Daskreech> kb9vqf: Lots of folks asking about your work indirectly on identi.ca
[02:16] <Daskreech> hi jjesse
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> If anybody wants to try out the sexy new kubuntu-notification-helper prebeta: https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/ppa/+packages
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> Instructions: Install kubuntu-notification-helper, reboot.
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> Alternately, killall kded4; sleep 2; kded4
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> Then "kcmshell4 kcmkded" and start the Notification Helper service
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> Feedback wanted. ;-)
[02:20]  * tsimpson prefers "kquitapp" to "killall"
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> kded isn't a kapplication so that doesn't work
[02:21] <tsimpson> it does
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> really?
[02:21]  * JontheEchidna tries
[02:21] <tsimpson> yep, kded is exported in dbus
[02:21] <tsimpson> "kquitapp kded"
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> oh, I always did kquitapp kded4
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> which doesn't work, which is why I thought it didn't work. ;-)
[02:22] <tsimpson> the dbus names don't have the '4' extension
[02:22] <kb9vqf> Daskreech: any links? ;)
[02:22] <tsimpson> guess it's not needed when you know only KDE4 apps export over dbus
[02:23] <Daskreech> kb9vqf: Just people asking if anyone still does KDE3 or where are the Kaffiene KDE3 packages
[02:23] <kb9vqf> OK; thanks for the heads up!
[02:23] <Daskreech> kb9vqf: I just keep pointing them to the Wiki page or to your repo
[02:23] <kb9vqf> Works for me
[02:23] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: you still around?
[02:24] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: you around?
[02:24] <Daskreech> tsimpson: What happens when KDE5 ships or KDE6? The Shortsightedness of it all !
[02:24]  * kb9vqf likes that his work is still appreciated
[02:24] <tsimpson> Daskreech: hopefully DBus will be long since dead :)
[02:24] <Daskreech> I hope it's appreciated enough that they help
[02:24] <Daskreech> tsimpson: replaced by?
[02:25] <Daskreech> Cbus!
[02:25] <tsimpson> something less insane
[02:25] <tsimpson> something usable outside of python...
[02:25] <Daskreech> which will of course be replaced by Kbus!
[02:25] <tsimpson> DBus was a good idea, poorly implemented
[02:26] <tsimpson> and a slight rip-off of dcop
[02:26] <Daskreech> with less functionality
[02:26] <nixternal> Daskreech: yes
[02:26] <Daskreech> I hear. I'm not really an informed speaker for either
[02:26] <nixternal> hrmm, 0 probs with lucid on my mini 10v right now...sound seems to be working
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> I did notice that the dbus python bindings didn't really translate to C++, or vice-versa
[02:26] <nixternal> err, DarkwingDuck yes I am still here
[02:27] <nixternal> still people with similar nicks
[02:27] <Daskreech> nixternal: Do I need to back up anything from the main install to get access to the encrypted section ?
[02:27] <Daskreech> nixternal: Ah thought you were answering me
[02:28] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: is there a list of the additions to the xml? IE: &kde;&apos; ect...
[02:31] <nixternal> not a single list, as those are stored in entity files that regularaly increase
[02:32] <DarkwingDuck> got ya
[02:32] <jjesse> evening
[02:32] <DarkwingDuck> hey jjesse
[02:32] <jjesse> just got around, spent the evnening in the bookstore reading books and ignroing the world
[02:33] <DarkwingDuck> hehe
[02:33] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: you can see what we have in libs/global.ent and libs/kde-menus-C.ent
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> thanks.
[02:34] <nixternal> kde-menus-C.ent are shortcuts for apps you use when launching an app from the KDE menu
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> Thanks!
[02:36] <DarkwingDuck> installing Lucid KNE right now.
[02:49] <Daskreech> Anything needs Doctoring?
[03:22] <shtylman> rgreening: using chromium yet?
[03:23] <nixternal> ScottK: hey, say I upload a package, lets say kubuntu-docs, to -proposed, -backports, or -updates...will the .pot files get sent over to LP for translations?
[03:23] <ScottK> nixternal: It goes when it hits -proposed, but not backports.
[03:24] <nixternal> ahh, so that did get incorporated then...I remember back in the day it didn't happen
[03:24] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:24] <nixternal> jjesse and DarkwingDuck ^^ so in theory we could do updates
[03:25] <Daskreech> Anyone has Ubuntu installed?
[03:25] <Daskreech> Where is the nautilus binary kept?
[03:25] <nixternal> though I don't think we should...it totally defeats the purpose of a UI or string freeze then
[03:27] <tsimpson> Daskreech: most likely /usr/bin
[03:28] <Daskreech> Hrmm
[03:28] <Daskreech> ok
[03:28] <tsimpson> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/i386/nautilus/filelist says /usr/bin/nautilus
[03:29] <maco> Daskreech: know the "which" command?
[03:29] <nixternal> Daskreech: apt-file list nautilus
[03:29] <nixternal> ;p
[03:31] <Daskreech> Not actually on Ubuntu just a Gnomey system and it seems they forgot to install nautilus
[03:34] <jjesse> would be nice if we could do updates as there are a ton of bugs thatwerew reported during translating portion of things
[03:35] <nixternal> well, i wonder why that happened...for 2 cycles nobody ever filed bugs like that...all of sudden someone got a translation bug up their ass
[03:35] <nixternal> that shit should have been found 2 years ago
[03:35] <rgreening> shtylman: haha
[03:36] <nixternal> why did the stupid ass bears pick cutler over vick?
[03:37] <vorian> heh
[03:38] <nixternal> i like how we trade kyle orton for jay cutler...jay cutler can't win if his life depended on it, and kyle orton is in first place, shoot he was like 6-0
[03:38] <nixternal> right now, cutler has the new season record for interceptions...and we are just half way done
[03:39] <nixternal> i figure he will hold the record of most interceptions in a career by the end of this year
[03:40] <jjesse> nixternal: i'm not arguing against UI or string freeze, i'm arguing for the fact to fix bugs and other problemsthat crop up in docs
[03:40] <nixternal> oh wow, brett favre hold the record for the most touchdowns in a career and the most interceptions in a career..that is pretty impressive
[03:41] <nixternal> jjesse: I agree, but in the case of the bugs being filed, none are remotely grave...
[03:41] <nixternal> I have no problem with it from a packaging standpoint, as that is the easy work
[03:42] <nixternal> but dealing with pulling in the translations (all the templates for each doc), building them out to xml, then testing to see if they are even 60% complete, deleting the ones that aren't, then building out all of the documentation, then going through the packaging...that is seriously 12 hours of work right there
[03:42] <nixternal> out of all the templates I download, I throw out 75% of them because they aren't even 60% translated
[03:43] <nixternal> and you can't have half translated docs, so there are a bunch of languages that are English only
[03:43] <nixternal> for 2 years none of the translators said anything, and now all of sudden they want to do work on our docs...I am hesitant to really throw them a bone right now, but that isn't right for the users
[03:44] <ScottK> nixternal: Did it start last week?
[03:44] <nixternal> what's that?
[03:44] <ScottK> The translation bugs?
[03:45] <nixternal> no, they started right after string freeze...ie. right when I went on vacation
[03:45] <ScottK> Oh.
[03:45] <jjesse> nixternal got a bit lost in your rant but are you saying that no one used to file bugs during translation and now they are?
[03:45] <nixternal> jjesse: we would get 2, maybe 3 bugs before...and now we have 25
[03:45] <jjesse> all i know is that we should be able respond to those bugs to amke a better package
[03:45] <nixternal> hell, we have more bugs right now, than we had combined with previous releases
[03:46] <nixternal> jjesse: and I agree with you there
[03:46] <nixternal> but the state of the translations in LP aren't even worth me spending 12 hours to even create a little bit better package
[03:47] <nixternal> es, fr, de...they will benefit...the rest really don't
[03:47] <nixternal> and then all of the super old templates that got stuck somehow in LP, intermingle and cause whicked breakage when building out the translations
[03:48] <nixternal> and nothing beats fixing DocBook/XML tags that were translated too...and when you pull in the translations and run validate on them...95% need to be fixed in order to even build...that is a good 3 or more hours of work right there
[03:49] <nixternal> GNOME, KDE, every other major project...you file a bug report for a current document, it can get fixed for the next release only if in string freeze
[03:53] <jjesse> so how do we deal with bugs then?  just fix them in next version?
[03:53] <nixternal> that's the way we have always done it
[03:53] <ScottK> jjesse: Maybe it's better to get the KDE4 docs right and then decide if they are worth an SRU or not?
[03:54] <nixternal> shoot, the KDE4 docs are worse than ours I think
[03:54] <dtchen> what's (or are) the blockers? Rosetta (in which case is Transifex an option)?
[03:54] <nixternal> though the developers are starting to finally realize the DocBook/XML is easier than C++ :p
[03:54] <ScottK> I mean update ours to KDE4
[03:54] <jjesse> they aren't bugs with the translatin ,they are bugs in the doc
[03:54] <nixternal> right
[03:54] <dtchen> ok
[03:54] <nixternal> but if we fix it in english, it needs to get re-translated
[03:55] <nixternal> or we can say screw you apachelogger, who cares if it isn't right for  you, works for me :p
[03:56] <nixternal> I am glad Dave is on board with Canonical concerning translations...I feel they are going to improve in the future...he has been busting his ass, and he will work with me, which is whicked awesome
[03:56] <ScottK> Lucid translations are open.
[03:56] <nixternal> they don't open to alpha 3
[03:56] <nixternal> they are importing templates right now
[03:56] <ScottK> No, they're open now as I understand it.
[03:56] <nixternal> hrmm, I have an email from Dave on a bug report that says alpha 3
[03:56] <ScottK> I may have misunderstood, but I thought I was told they were opened early this cycle.
[03:56] <ScottK> OK.
[03:56] <nixternal> but I swore I did read that they were already open in Lucid though
[03:57] <nixternal> like a blog post or something
[03:57] <ScottK> If they are, you can fix docs bugs in English, upload to Lucid, get translations done, and then update Karmic.
[03:57] <nixternal> well, lucid docs are getting rewritten from scratch
[03:58] <nixternal> it would be way to much of a pain to go through and update everything from kde3 to kde4 stuff
[03:58] <ScottK> If the original stuff is broken enough, I don't see a problem with putting it in Karmic when you're done.
[03:58] <nixternal> that is of course until I start working again...then who knows, we may only have an About Kubuntu doc and that's it
[03:58] <nixternal> ScottK: I don't either, but Lucid will be out by then :)
[03:59] <ScottK> Depends on how fast jjesse writes.
[03:59] <nixternal> and Lucid will be KDE 4.4
[03:59] <nixternal> he works way to much...it can't be healthy
[04:00] <ScottK> Well I think KDE 4.4 is waaay closer to 4.3 than 3.5.
[04:00] <nixternal> haha, true
[04:03] <Daskreech> Which is faster Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[04:04] <dtchen> "no"
[04:04] <nixternal> Ubuntu
[04:05] <nixternal> if you google it, you can look at the phoronix results
[04:07] <Daskreech> hmm I know they do Ubuntu v Fedora and Ubuntu v Windows X pretty often
[04:07] <Daskreech>  didn't know they did Gnome v KDE
[04:09] <nixternal> well, you can do the test and upload to the phoronix global site
[04:10] <nixternal> I did a test of ubuntu and kubuntu last year
[04:10] <Daskreech> ah I see
[04:10] <Daskreech> Does the Phoronix test do do subsystem reporting
[04:10] <Daskreech> so we can track where slowishness occurs ?
[04:11] <nixternal> it does everything...you can add stuff to do that probably
[04:11] <nixternal> you can even run a tracking server for that kind of stuff...I built one at my last job that would do daily performance tests of our appliance builds
[04:11] <Daskreech> hmm sounds like a paging call for the Doktors
[04:12] <nixternal> the server would create all the pretty charts, compare with the day before, compare with stable, and compre with development...then when it finished doing that, it would email everyone
[04:12] <Daskreech> Can we get a Kubunut server for results ?
[04:12] <Daskreech> Kubuntu
[04:12] <nixternal> and if there was a slow bit and it was your product, you would get yelled out :)
[04:12] <nixternal> I doubt it
[04:12] <nixternal> we can't even get a Kubuntu server for surveys
[04:12] <Daskreech> We can get people to run tests on all sorts of hardware and start profiling
[04:12] <Daskreech> nixternal: What kind of specs were on the server you set up?
[04:13] <nixternal> the server was just a crap old computer
[04:13] <jjesse> sorry got lost, what do i have to write?
[04:13] <nixternal> the build systems were the same exact systems we sold...so there was nothing to blame but our code
[04:13] <Daskreech> and windows!
[04:13] <Daskreech> And Google!
[04:14] <Daskreech> and popey I guess
[04:14] <nixternal> we were a Linux only shop
[04:14] <ScottK> popey/Elvis
[04:14] <nixternal> we used CentOS on all of our appliances
[04:14] <Daskreech> Well yeah that's obvious if you built the server
[04:14] <Daskreech> doesn't stop me blaming Windows though :)
[04:14] <nixternal> hah, I had him using Kubuntu for a couple of days out at Mt. View
[04:16] <Daskreech> Was he interested in it?
[04:16] <nixternal> just for a couple of days
[04:16] <Daskreech> and then?
[04:16] <nixternal> went back to the dark side
[04:17] <Daskreech> Familarity won?
[04:17] <nixternal> well, he was using like 4.0/4.1, so I understand the pain he went through
[04:18] <Daskreech> Oh
[04:18] <Daskreech> oooooh
[04:18] <Daskreech> Yeah
[04:19] <Daskreech> so nixternal. What's the message you think we should get out for people who feel burned by Kubuntu ?
[04:19] <nixternal> sorry?
[04:19] <nixternal> ;p
[04:19] <Daskreech> Ah curses I gave claydoh a link I think last night
[04:19] <nixternal> we need to let the distro be the message...it needs to speak for itself
[04:20] <Daskreech> ah thats' partly true
[04:21] <Daskreech> it doesn't work but it's partly true
[04:21] <Daskreech> nixternal: kubuntuguide.org btw since documentation is under discussion
[04:22] <Daskreech> nixternal: http://ardchoille42.blogspot.com/2009/11/review-kde-one-year-later.html in regards to being burned
[04:24] <ScottK> Daskreech: His "OMG, we need to go back to KDE 3" rant would have ever so slightly more credibiilty if he'd at least know what the current version of KDE 3 is.
[04:25] <ScottK> I use Kate all the time and I can't recall the last time it crashed.
[04:25] <Daskreech> ScottK: I know
[04:25] <Daskreech> I can't replicate anything that he says except Dolphin doesn't update
[04:26] <nixternal> Daskreech: interesting...just from glancing through that page, I see licensing violations, and non-new-user-friendly documentation
[04:26] <Daskreech> But my point is that he has taken the time to come back to KDE to look at it
[04:26] <Daskreech> I can imagine there are quite a few who have not
[04:27] <Daskreech> nixternal: contact them. So far they are doing pretty good work would be nice to promote them some more but if they need things in line then they need things in line
[04:27] <nixternal> no it wouldn't be good to promote...I am looking for google ads or something
[04:28] <nixternal> why can't these people contribute to the damn project? instead they go off and do their own thing...only reason behind doing something like that isn't to scratch your own itch, but typically way for you to make some kind of money off of a project you don't even contribute to
[04:28] <nixternal> those people can kiss off in my eyes
[04:29] <jjesse> what do i have to do to get approved to join kubuntu-members in launchpad?  apparently according to nixternal i n ever applied
[04:29] <Daskreech> maybe find out instead of impugning motives ?
[04:29] <ScottK> Then apply jjesse
[04:30] <nixternal> jjesse: you have to apply, and then go to a meeting and get interviewed :p
[04:30] <nixternal> but if you speak to Riddell I am sure something can be done in your case...as there is a blatant mistake somewhere
[04:30] <nixternal> you have been around here longer than I have
[04:31] <Daskreech> Stuff like them having the Current version as Ibex on the front page means they are probably not quite in the fanatical must do better to get money mode
[04:32] <DarkwingDuck> ugg... my eyes :D
[04:33] <jjesse> people are burned by kubuntu?
[04:33]  * ScottK hands DarkwingDuck some sunglasses until he can put the picture of nixternal away
[04:33] <Daskreech> jjesse: So the interweb says
[04:33] <nixternal> hrmm, interesting...Kate crashes, he can't view lxer in konqi...none of the problems I have...I read lxer a few times a day
[04:33] <DarkwingDuck> lol
[04:34] <ScottK> Well I think read the bad reviews for useful feedback, and don't worry about the rest.
[04:34] <DarkwingDuck> who has been burned by kubuntu?
[04:34] <DarkwingDuck> after using gnome for 3 years I switched happily
[04:34] <ScottK> If people want their KDE by the people that do such a great job of it they convinced Linus to switch to Gnome, then they ought to use Fedora.
[04:35] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: And we're glad to have you.
[04:35] <Daskreech> People who jumped in for 4.0 4.1, People who feel that it's generally a worse experience than Ubuntu People who say that canonical is trying to squash KDE so avoid Kubuntu etc
[04:36] <Daskreech> ScottK: Yeah Fedora is always Fedora. The same reason it's appealing is the same reason it's a turn off
[04:36] <nixternal> ahh, networking is horribly slow
[04:36] <Daskreech> It compiled! Ship it!
[04:36] <nixternal> just add 'ipv6.disable=1' to /etc/default/grub and all is peachy again
[04:36] <Daskreech> Bluetooth doesn't work in Kubuntu Wi-Fi doesn't work in Kubuntu
[04:36] <nixternal> his dolphin problem I have experienced when I used dolphin
[04:37] <nixternal> he could have gone off on package management but didn't....the reason for the slow install is the whole ipv6/glib/whatever problem that is already known in karmic
[04:37] <nixternal> and switching off ipv6 for real fixed my slow network problems
[04:38] <Daskreech> That doesn't explain why it's slow in Kubuntu but not in Ubuntu
[04:38] <nixternal> I will say this about Ubuntu though...I set it up for my neice and nephew, and plugged in this hokey 2wire usb wifi thing, and seriously in less than 10 seconds it was up and working..connected to their wifi and searching the web
[04:38] <nixternal> I never had to plug it in to eth0 at all
[04:39] <Daskreech> I'm probably a bad example since I do most everything from the command line but I pretty much always end up dropping to the command line to do stuff to help people
[04:40] <nixternal> well, after reading Ian's closing arguments, I can say Ian is an idiot...and in a nice way :)
[04:40] <nixternal> KDE 3.5.9....ya, that was so edgy
[04:40] <Daskreech> *nods*
[04:40] <nixternal> 3.5.10 silly
[04:41] <Daskreech> Still however he took the time to come back and look. We need to get a message out once the Doktor has given the once over that tis time to look
[04:41] <nixternal> i think i am going to quit contributing to open source, and just start writing very opinionated blogs on topis that are poory researched
[04:41] <nixternal> oh wait, my blog is already that
[04:41] <Daskreech> nixternal: Even funnier since Karmic does have 3.5.10 available
[04:42] <Daskreech> But of course comments are not allowed there v_V
[04:42] <nixternal> that's because Ian knew he was full of shizzy
[04:42] <Daskreech> in any case what areas do we need to hit at to say either we have arrived or we are getting there and getting there fast?
[04:43] <Daskreech> I know that KNM should be surpassing nm-applet so that's one thing
[04:43] <nixternal> everywhere
[04:43] <Daskreech> KDe bluetooth is still in need of some loving
[04:44] <dtchen> nixternal: we need a new haters blog
[04:44] <nixternal> no matter what we do, we have that buntu thing in our name, and the jealous zealots will always attack and say X is better than Y
[04:44] <nixternal> someone tried to recreate the haters blog
[04:45] <nixternal> he needs to make a comeback..I loved reading his blog
[04:45] <nixternal> he is a contributer to open source too
[04:45] <nixternal> met him at OLF last year
[04:45] <Daskreech> Who is trying to convince Jealous Zealots?
[04:45] <Daskreech>  If you gave them honey and cake they wouldn't budge
[04:46] <nixternal> Daskreech: they are the only ones attacking
[04:46] <nixternal> there are problems, but guess what, they are the same everywhere
[04:46] <nixternal> I have all of our competitors installed, and we all behave similar
[04:46] <jjesse> i've applied
[04:46] <jjesse> pending approval :0
[04:46] <ScottK> Just wait until we ship pulse by default in Lucid +1.  You'll see the haters then for sure.
[04:46] <Daskreech> I'm not worried about attackers
[04:46] <nixternal> some of our competitors are using our patches..the same ones they bitch about and then tell everyone they are as close to vanilla kde as you can be
[04:47] <Daskreech> For those then yes the distro will speak
[04:47] <nixternal> we get to do an april fools release this time...i say we put in arts
[04:47] <Daskreech> I'm more looking at people who have silently moved away and have no idea what's going on
[04:47] <Daskreech> the other Buntu named distro has a nice web of distractons that happily sidelines us
[04:48] <nixternal> if they have moved away and have no clue what's going on, then how are we to give them a clue? if they have moved away, where are they now?
[04:48] <nixternal> we don't target the ones who have ran and didn't follow along...we go for fresh blood
[04:48] <ScottK> Daskreech: I think the only way to get them back is to pretty demonstrably not suck.
[04:48] <ScottK> Until we manage that, don't sweat how to tell them.
[04:49] <nixternal> example would be, MS doing 1 commercial with their "I am a PC" clone...you saw that commercial for a week, and then it was gone
[04:49] <DarkwingDuck> People who left Kubuntu will always keep an eye on it. Once it gets better they will migrate back into the system
[04:49] <nixternal> we need to let the OS speak for itself
[04:49] <Daskreech> WEll Desktop system in this case :)
[04:49] <nixternal> remember, developers != marketers
[04:50] <Daskreech> nixternal: true but you saw Aseigo's blog on communication
[04:50] <nixternal> probably
[04:50] <nixternal> i read to many blogs
[04:50] <Daskreech> one thing that KDE itself does very well is communicate on "this is getting better"
[04:50] <nixternal> you talking his negativity one?
[04:51] <Daskreech> Sorry continuious communication
[04:51] <Daskreech>  not just communication
[04:52] <Daskreech> For KDE if something sucks normally the day or the week a patch goes in a blog pops up saying it's in it's being tested should be there by X release
[04:52] <Daskreech> apachelogger has been microblogging the KDE Ubuntuone client
[04:52] <DarkwingDuck> Is Byobu WM something new with 10.04 across the board or just KNE?
[04:53] <Daskreech> It's gotten a lot of interest and changed the kinda Kubuntu is the blue headed stepchild when it comes to features chant into a more oh hey it's coming along pretty well when can I have it? kind of discussion
[04:55] <Daskreech> If we can start some pretty steady updates as to what's being improved or looked at it shuld get more people into the groove of Kubuntu is progressing Lets stick around and see what happens
[04:56] <nixternal> if Kubuntu is the blue headed step child, then what is openSUSE's KDE? iirc didn't Novell let the great majority of people go who were working on it?
[04:56] <Daskreech> Yes
[04:56] <Daskreech> But we don't care about the discussion around Novell and openSUSE
[04:56] <Daskreech> they can worry about that
[04:56] <nixternal> I think there are just as many paid KDE people at Canonical than there are at any other company now, well except kdab
[04:57] <nixternal> well, kubuntu is a blue headed step child is just silly...how many gnome developers does canonical have compared to kde developers?
[04:57] <Daskreech> Right so the discussion needs to change around it. As you said developers are not marketeres so let the development start doing some marketing
[04:57] <nixternal> on the ubuntu side, their volunteer community is larger than anyone elses that I can think of
[04:59] <Daskreech> Yep
[05:00] <Daskreech> as I said they have a nice web of distractions :-)
[05:00] <Daskreech> we need to build our own
[05:00] <nixternal> what we need to do, is work on development...we need to stop trying to overload ourselves with tasks that can't get completed in time and then include them somehow
[05:00] <nixternal> we need to stop picking alpha versions for our releases
[05:00] <ScottK> nixternal: A year ago Canonical had one KDE packager and no developers.  Today they have one KDE packager (primarily) and on KDE developer (primarily).  Progress.
[05:01] <nixternal> we have a nice list of our patches and if they are required or not, and then we can review them and provide feedback...so that is an awesome start there
[05:01] <nixternal> ScottK: they have 2 developers actually
[05:01] <Daskreech> nixternal: Right. Someone should blog about that
[05:01] <nixternal> there is another one in hiding, at least Riddell blogged about him
[05:01] <ScottK> nixternal: I know Riddell develops too.  Do you mean someone else?
[05:01] <nixternal> yes, there is one more
[05:01] <nixternal> I totally forgot his name too...I am horrible
[05:02] <nixternal> and lets not forget about Canonical + KDAB :)
[05:02] <Daskreech> What about that?
[05:02] <ScottK> Not sure how much is going on there.
[05:02]  * Daskreech hasn't been listening to that much
[05:02] <nixternal> ScottK: actually quite a bit with couchdb and akonadi
[05:03] <nixternal> sebas blogged about it recently iirc
[05:03] <ScottK> I know there was a demo, but that's it.
[05:03] <ScottK> If there's more, that's great.
[05:03] <nixternal> they are still working on it
[05:03] <ScottK> Nice
[05:03] <nixternal> it is one of their projects according to other kdab employees I know
[05:03] <Daskreech> Ubuntu will ship with akonadi?
[05:03] <nixternal> no, for KDE work
[05:03] <nixternal> err, Kubuntu
[05:03] <nixternal> err, I have no clue
[05:04] <nixternal> I thought it was with the whole online services thing, ie. ubuntu one...but apachelogger is working on that it seems
[05:04] <ScottK> Well it was good to see Canonical pushing KDE tech at Gnome.
[05:04] <Daskreech> Which KDE tech?
[05:04] <ScottK> The new systray protocol.
[05:04] <Daskreech> Ah yes that would be good
[05:04] <nixternal> well, I don't know about pushing so much...Canonical is filled with smart people..when they see something good they tend to be open minded about it and go for it
[05:04] <ScottK> The one that's in kdelibs-experimental in KDE 4.3
[05:05] <nixternal> they also enjoy living on the edge as steven tyler put it so well :)
[05:05] <Daskreech> Was there a response from GNOME?
[05:05] <nixternal> would you expect one?
[05:06] <nixternal> see, I don't think anyone should push stuff at KDE and they shouldn't push stuff at GNOME....collaboration of open-minds will prevail in the end
[05:06] <nixternal> if akonadi is the way to go..then awesome
[05:06] <nixternal> or the messaging stuff
[05:06] <Daskreech> Well I hear pushing of X at Gnome I would guess they can't just stand there without moving
[05:06] <ScottK> Daskreech: At least from the ones in the room, there was a bit of shock.
[05:06] <nixternal> or..notifications I meant
[05:06] <Daskreech> Well I mean they can Big solid feet and all
[05:07] <Daskreech> nixternal: Except the powers that be have shut down any work with akonadi
[05:07] <nixternal> I will play with GNOME devs for fun...GNOME just had a conference here in Chicago, of course I crashed it a little and gave them a bunch of Kubuntu CDs...they knew who it was right away and we all had fun
[05:07] <nixternal> the desktop wars are so 1997
[05:07] <Daskreech> ScottK: at using it ? or the changes involved? Shock at what?
[05:08] <ScottK> I think they were suprised at the idea.
[05:08] <nixternal> were they Canonical devs who were surprised?
[05:08] <Daskreech> They are but even though Qt has been put as part of Freedesktop there is still an idea that no one should touch it
[05:08] <ScottK> No, Gnome upstream people.
[05:09] <Daskreech> ScottK: how long did that last?
[05:09] <ScottK> Pretty much the entire session I think.
[05:09] <Daskreech> damn it
[05:09] <ScottK> They had a lot of questions and we had pretty good answers.
[05:09] <Daskreech> they are probably going to do it again
[05:09] <ScottK> Which?
[05:09]  * nixternal wonders what is going to happen when they finally port growl to linux
[05:10] <nixternal> they just released a version for windows and the developer said, "all we have left now is linux"
[05:10] <Daskreech> and Symbian!
[05:10]  * Daskreech hears the sobs of the BSD sheep in the corner
[05:11]  * JontheEchidna is sad that he missed half of the ayatana meeting at UDS
[05:18] <nixternal> ok, I am going to crash for the evening....I think I will take one of my C++/Qt books to bed with me...Python has melted my brain :)
[05:18] <nixternal> g'nite
[05:19] <Daskreech> night
[06:50] <jussi01> hrm, Ive got a fun bug..
[06:51] <jussi01> running xinerama on fglrx. everything works fine, with the one exception of the internal mouse not being able to change screens. the external can do it fine, but you cant use the internal mouse to go from screen 1 to screen 2,
[06:51] <jussi01> anyone seen that before?
[06:55] <Riddell> nope, but then I've never used xinerama before
[08:48] <Riddell> qt rc 1 uploaded, time to rebuild everything qtish since the beta
[08:52] <Daskreech> Yay!
[08:54] <Sput> let's hope ScottK manages to build quassel-0.5.1 then in time
[08:54] <jussi01> :D
[08:58] <Riddell> Sput: how do you mean?
[08:59] <Sput> Riddell: apparently, his package currently fails on Lucid, and quassel-0.5.0 doesn't work particularly well with the rc1
[09:00] <Riddell> Sput: 0.5.1 is in lucid and is building, I'm about to reupload it to build with rc 1
[09:01] <Sput> Riddell: ah, so maybe he managed to fix the issue with the missing libz :)
[09:02] <Daskreech> Riddell: can you figure this out? http://identi.ca/notice/15384824
[09:02] <Daskreech> As far as I can guess we are discussing the File dialog in OO.o
[09:03] <Riddell> Daskreech: seems a reasonable guess, I can rarely make any sense of people's microblogs
[09:03] <Daskreech> http://identi.ca/conversation/15363039#notice-15401750 might be better
[09:04]  * Sput loves ShowCo^WChoqok's "Show conversation" mode
[09:04] <Daskreech> I have no idea why the concept is that Dolphin needs to integrate with OO.o
[09:04] <Daskreech> Sput: I know I just hate the API for it
[09:05] <Daskreech> On the website you can get all past and future posts for a conversation based on a dent in time
[09:05] <Daskreech> The API only allows you to get the past dents
[09:06] <Sput> ah I see
[09:26] <apachelogger> ScottK, Daskreech: for what it's worth ... the new systray stuff is so superior to the old one that there is no way you would not want to implement it
[09:29] <apachelogger> nixternal: you dont want the storm of bitching when stuff that was translated needs to be retranslated :P
[09:36] <Daskreech> apachelogger: We want it implemented. Gnome devs however don't seem so sure
[09:37] <apachelogger> their fault, maybe I should do a fud video .... in how many ways the tiny kde4 systray is more awesome than the one from gnome :P
[09:37] <apachelogger> indeed also better looking
[09:38] <Daskreech> Start off with better looking
[09:39] <apachelogger> of course it is only better looking
[09:39] <apachelogger> Id just not call it by name, because FUD must be non-obvious :P
[11:51] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you know why we build mplayerthumbs as a separate source package?
[11:56] <ghostcube> ehlo humans :)
[12:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: it's non-official KDE, isnt it?
[12:30] <Riddell> it's part of kdemultimedia
[12:31] <Riddell> I uploaded it with it added now
[12:32] <apachelogger> weird then
[12:33] <Riddell> I also kept libpulse-dev as a dependency from debian for kmix support, so we should watch out for that causing trouble
[12:36] <Riddell> hmm, I wonder how we differ that means we need kubuntu_01_suid_kppp.diff
[12:41] <Riddell> hmm, I wonder how we differ that means we need kubuntu_01_suid_kppp.diff
[12:41] <Riddell> cor
[13:03] <rgreening_> Riddell: ping
[13:03] <Riddell> hi rgreening_
[13:04] <Riddell> spec looks good at a glance, I'll get to a proper review when I've uploaded the outstanding merges
[13:04] <rgreening_> Riddell: cool. ty sir :)
[13:04] <rgreening_> Riddell: what about updating the blueprint to assign to myself?
[13:05] <rgreening_> so I can update it and begin working on it
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: it has a multiverse dependency
[13:08] <Riddell> rgreening_: you don't need to wait for the beurocracy to get on with coding :)
[13:08] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that shouldn't make a difference, there's no build-dep
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> oh, right. So the binary will just stay in multiverse
[13:11] <Riddell> yes, as long as the archive admin puts it there
[13:18] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger, smarter: How would you feel about a kubuntu-notification-helper beta?
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> We could put packages in a PPA somewhere and maybe blog a little. Maybe send a message off to kubuntu-devel for a sanity-check on the code.
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> But as of now it should do pretty much everything we want it to
[13:51] <smarter> JontheEchidna: sounds good
[13:51] <smarter> release early and everything :)
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> The awsome thing is that we pretty much still have the full cycle to test things
[14:59] <apachelogger> meh
[15:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have any idea what tricks KDE does to ensure a systray contextmenu is not overlapping the panelbar?
[15:01] <Riddell> I'm not aware of it doing any, I think the app just places the menu above the icon
[15:02] <apachelogger> well, I cant find any refernece to calling either
[15:02] <apachelogger> hum
[15:02] <apachelogger> maybe it is handled within qtsystemtrayicon
[15:31] <Riddell> upstream wants to know if it's acceptable to tag/release 4.3.4 and 4.4 beta at the same time
[15:31] <Riddell> I'm thinking not
[15:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose they will only get binaries at release time for one then
[15:33] <apachelogger> uha, nice... Riddell about the menu positioning ... qsystemtray icon (deriving from qwidget) passes the globalpos of itself, kstatusnotifieritem on the other hand does derive from qobject so I am a bit clueless as to how to make the menu properly aligned
[15:34] <nixternal> personally I would put a week, maybe even 2 in there, between them
[15:34]  * apachelogger could just merge context menu and left click menu, since for use the latter only contains disconnect/connect
[15:34] <apachelogger> nixternal: usually it was a week IIRC
[15:34] <Riddell> two menus?  that's not good
[15:34] <apachelogger> that is how the gnome applet implements it
[15:35] <Riddell> different right/left click menus makes agateau cry
[15:35] <apachelogger> the context menu holds context stuff, and the left click menu holds disconnect + status information
[15:35] <nixternal> would be OK to do if say, on kde.org you announced 4.3.4, and you have dev.kde.org or such where you can announce 4.4 beta
[15:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: hehe, one menu would also be more in line with knm
[15:35] <apachelogger> uses same menu for left and right as well
[15:41] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I think that between the two of us we have the Qt rebuild done :)
[15:42] <JontheEchidna> I've done universe up to right before rekonq
[16:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please update your ubuntuone
[16:00] <apachelogger> it should now actually work for the better part of non-auth stuff
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> uh oh
[16:01] <apachelogger> I also revised the readme to suggest this state
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: you forgot the epoch in your Qt build-depend version for kde4libs
[16:01] <apachelogger> something about the trayicon size is a bit off though
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> so it built against Qt 4.6 beta1, at least on i386
[16:03] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: do I still need the gnome client?
[16:04] <JontheEchidna> sigh @ bug 482143
[16:05]  * JontheEchidna wants to break the CoC here
[16:14] <al> hi
[16:14] <ScottK> Welcome al
[16:14] <ScottK> Hey everyone ....
[16:15] <ScottK> I know al from #quassel and he knows a fair amount about both development and Debian style packaging
[16:15] <ScottK> He's interested to help perhaps.
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> Welcome. :)
[16:16] <ScottK> al: If you look at  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLucidSpecs you can get an idea of what we are planning on for this development cycle.
[16:17] <ScottK> We just finished our developer's summit last week where we came up with these plans.
[16:17] <al> ok thanks, i'll have a look at that later :>
[16:17] <ScottK> OK.
[16:17] <ScottK> Anything in particular that interests you?
[16:17] <ScottK> Stuff that annoys you enough to work on making it better?
[16:17] <ScottK> al: There is also a mailing list it's good to join.  Look for kubuntu-devel on lists.ubuntu.com.  It's pretty low volume.
[16:18] <al> dunno right now. i'd probably just need to check which unresolved bugs im subscribed to
[16:18] <Riddell> hi al
[16:18] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm, did I forget the epoch on all my uploads?
[16:19] <Riddell> mm, I did :(
[16:19] <JontheEchidna> :(
[16:19] <ScottK> al: On the off chance you don't know, Riddell is our fearless leader.
[16:19] <maco> i should probably join that mailing list
[16:19] <al> thanks, i didn't know ;-)
[16:19] <ScottK> maco: Yes.  Please.
[16:20] <maco> i tend to assume anything important will come up here anyway
[16:20]  * txwikinger wonders if Riddell took a herding course while in Texas
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: don't feel too bad. I missed a few too.
[16:21] <JontheEchidna> But mostly I bumped the kdelibs5-dev build-dependency versions, so those will have to be re-rebuilt too :(
[16:22] <jussi01> cripes, ScottK you recruited a superstar... howd you manage that?
[16:22] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: where is your kdetoys merge?
[16:22] <jussi01> oh, and hiya al :D
[16:22] <ScottK> dtchen: Did the recordmydesktop sound issue you blogged about get fixed in the archive?
[16:22] <maco> ScottK: i uploaded recordmydesktop for him
[16:23] <ScottK> maco: Thanks.
[16:23] <maco> he's still waiting on a sponsor for libsdl
[16:23] <ScottK> jussi01: Simple: "It's your desktop, how would you like to help make it suck less".
[16:23] <ScottK> OK, maybe this evening.
[16:28] <maco> ok im subscribed now
[16:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: only for initial auth
[16:48] <ScottK> al: One other important point.  This spec list is stuff we've planned as a team to do.  It's no barrier to you doing other improvements of interest to you (my first feature was kmail configured by default for gpg and s/mime signing - no one else cared about that at all).
[16:52] <al> ScottK: hehe, roger
[16:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: so what do you think? :P
[16:57] <jtholmes> anyone know what double layer dvd burner works well on 9.10 K3b
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I never got the got the gnome client to work :(
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> what packages do I need for the gnome client?
[17:08] <apachelogger> ubuntuone-client
[17:09] <apachelogger> and ubuntuone-client-applet I suppose
[17:09] <ScottK> Presumably the ones it depends on or you should file bugs.
[17:09] <Lex79> Riddell: can you retry kdepim? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:4.3.3-0ubuntu2
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> aha:
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> ** (ubuntuone-client-applet:32668): WARNING **: couldn't communicate with gnome keyring daemon via dbus: The name org.gnome.keyring was not provided by any .service files
[17:13]  * JontheEchidna files a bug
[17:18] <JontheEchidna> Sipping tea :D
[17:20] <JontheEchidna> Pretty neat
[17:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: go test the ubuntuone :P
[17:22] <JontheEchidna> So, you just move stuff to ~/Ubuntu One to test, right?
[17:22] <apachelogger> yus
[17:22] <apachelogger> or upload via webinterface
[17:22] <apachelogger> then it should be synced down
[17:22] <JontheEchidna> I get nice "uploading" and "finished uploading" notifications
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> I didn't get anything from either the gnome or kde applet when I deleted a file from the web interface
[17:23]  * ScottK suggests one notification per file for enhanced user spamming.
[17:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I no, but I dunno why
[17:27] <yuriy> i'm getting qt 4.6 installed for some reason.. where is it? experimental? that's the only thing i have at all, and it's commented out in my sources.list
[17:27] <yuriy> s/thing/ppa
[17:27]  * ScottK waves to yuriy.
[17:27] <yuriy> heya ScottK
[17:28] <ScottK> It's also in Lucid.  Any lucid sneak into sources.list?
[17:28] <yuriy> nope
[17:28] <yuriy> but it's in kubuntu-ppa/experimental?
[17:28] <ScottK> IIRC yes.
[17:28] <yuriy> or backports maybe
[17:29] <yuriy> oh well
[17:29] <yuriy> hope nothing breaks
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: am I supposed to get a kjob plasma notification when I transfer files?
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> anyways, nice work on the applet
[17:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no
[17:37] <apachelogger> as decided yesterday I replaced that with the notification and indiciatin in the tooltip
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> The tooltip never changed from sipping tea for me
[18:09]  * txwikinger wonders if anybody noticed that konqi is not launchpad compatible
[18:10] <ScottK> I'd put it the other way around.
[18:10] <ScottK> I've filed some bugs.
[18:18] <txwikinger> hehe
[18:19] <txwikinger> well.. arora and ff work
[18:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maybe the upload/download was too fast
[18:21] <apachelogger> try adding a couple of large files
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yep, that's it
[18:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: techpreviewy enough?
[18:55] <JontheEchidna> for a techpreview release?
[18:58] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: Yeah, I think it works well enough. It'd be nice if the gnome client wasn't needed at all, but at the moment it does work quite well
[19:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, it only needs it for initial auth, then only gnome-keyring
[19:00] <apachelogger> both are pretty much due to internal design flaws IMHO
[19:00]  * JontheEchidna is having to convince the ubuntuone packagers that ubuntuone really does need to depend on gnome-keyring :/
[19:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I think you just need to convince some core-dev.
[19:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: care to create the packaging bits?
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I could after I finish the beta release for knh
[19:04] <Blizzz> nixternal: u here?
[19:04] <apachelogger> all so betaish round here :P
[19:04] <nixternal> Blizzz: yes I am
[19:05] <Blizzz> nixternal: great, hi
[19:05] <nixternal> howdy
[19:05] <Blizzz> nixternal: regarding the documentation things, i'd take config-desktop if it's ok
[19:06] <Blizzz> i did some german documentation in plasma some months ago so it is not completely new :D
[19:06] <nixternal> Blizzz: awesome! make sure you add your name to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Documentation/Lucid/Todo :)
[19:07] <Blizzz> nixternal: will do :) though i cannot start until next week
[19:09] <nixternal> Blizzz: that's fine :)
[19:10] <apachelogger> nixternal: btw, any nus on ubuntuone?
[19:11] <JontheEchidna> If anybody wishes to revu the kubuntu-notification-helper package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7077
[19:12] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: should be a native package
[19:12] <apachelogger> 0.4.85ubuntu1
[19:12] <apachelogger> why 0.4.85 anyway?
[19:13] <JontheEchidna> I was thinking that 0.5 would be the first stable release
[19:13] <ScottK> apachelogger: Unless there's some chance it will go into Debian, 0.4.85 is find.
[19:13] <JontheEchidna> With 1.0 being the super-feature-complete release that uses a c++ RFC822 parser rather than our own and such
[19:14] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is not dch proof
[19:14] <apachelogger> only VERSIONubunuX works
[19:14] <JontheEchidna> In theory Debian could use the package
[19:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I thought the reboot notification stuff depends on ubuntu-specific changes to dpkg?
[19:15] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: license in debian/copyright is wrong
[19:15] <JontheEchidna> I'm not sure
[19:15] <JontheEchidna> (irt to the ubuntu dpkg stuff)
[19:16] <apachelogger> well, I do not think it is default behaviour
[19:16] <apachelogger> also I doubt debian is going to use apport
[19:16] <apachelogger> so I find the likelyhood of going upstream rather low
[19:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, I think your copyright lines need to be unified
[19:18] <apachelogger> yours says "by Jonathan" whereas mine just says "Harald" :P
[19:18] <apachelogger> package looks good
[19:19]  * JontheEchidna tries to decide which would be better "by" or just name
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> ehm, throw a : in that last line somewheres
[19:25] <nixternal> you know, I was looking at some wallpapers and thought that maybe we should hold our own wallpaper contest or something, and create a kubuntu-wallpapers package with them...like Ubuntu did with Karmic and like KDE has done in the past
[19:31] <Blizzz> i'd appreciate it
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: revu updated
[19:39] <apachelogger> ok, my faltdude just went insane because of java
[19:39] <apachelogger> he is making windows startup sounds
[19:39] <apachelogger> oh my oh my
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> dammit, the PPAs have a wait of 5 hours :/
[19:46] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: NCommander can fix that for you.
[19:46] <JontheEchidna> My package would take all of 5 minutes to build too
[19:49] <apachelogger> hm
[19:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: go make a ubuntuone package in that time :P
[20:13] <djsiegel> hey seele
[20:13] <djsiegel> or seele_ :)
[20:14] <djsiegel> Is anyone in here interested in helping represent Kubuntu in the paper cuts project?
[20:15] <txwikinger> what does represent mean?
[20:15] <Riddell> hi djsiegel, did mean to talk to you about that at UDS
[20:16] <Riddell> seele did it last time so she's be the natural choice, but she's a busy sort so any other volunteers would be good
[20:16] <djsiegel> So, I'm looking for someone willing to basically be my counterpart in the Kubuntu community.
[20:16] <djsiegel> Blog weekly about paper cuts.
[20:16] <djsiegel> Help schedule kubuntu paper cuts in the milestones.
[20:17] <djsiegel> Find community members to fix paper cuts.
[20:17] <djsiegel> make sure paper cuts land in Kubuntu on time
[20:17] <txwikinger> well.. if you don't find anybody else ...
[20:17]  * txwikinger is willing to do this... gives him a reason not to be such a lzy blogger
[20:18] <djsiegel> txwikinger: I am really looking for someone to step up and work closely with me
[20:18] <ScottK> What's our equivalent of gwibber?
[20:18] <Sput> showco^Wchoqok?
[20:18] <ScottK> Is that how you spell it.
[20:18] <txwikinger> ScottK: choqok?
[20:18] <maco> bad sput!
[20:18] <Sput> bah, evil markey
[20:18] <markey> hm?
[20:18] <Riddell> go go txwikinger
[20:19] <Sput> you came up with the homonym!
[20:19] <markey> what, ChokeOnCock?
[20:19] <markey> that wasn't my doing
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> haha
[20:19] <Sput> markey: I will never be able to run choqok again without thinking about that!
[20:19] <djsiegel> So, we want to schedule papercuts that affect kubuntu, and coordinate on "paper jams"
[20:19] <markey> read it somewhere
[20:19]  * txwikinger wonders if he should let his son on this channel
[20:19] <djsiegel> in 4 weeks we are doing a paper jam fixing problems with gwibber (microblogging)
[20:19] <djsiegel> so we need to coordinate to fix issues with the kubuntu equivalent
[20:20] <txwikinger> haha paper jams are the bigger ones now ?
[20:20] <djsiegel> or if there isn't an equivalent, we need to find some other common ground
[20:20] <djsiegel> txwikinger: paper jams are just groups of related paper cuts
[20:20] <txwikinger> ah
[20:20] <djsiegel> kind of a sloppy metaphor, but whatever :)
[20:20] <markey> KDE has many apps that have naming issues (especially with capitalization). fex: digiKam
[20:20] <markey> Ryan Paul wrote he has issues with getting that by his editors
[20:20] <djsiegel> markey: that could be the topic of an entire cycle
[20:21] <djsiegel> wow, if you could pull off improving application names...
[20:21] <markey> because in correct English, you have to start a sentence with a capital letter
[20:21] <djsiegel> that could start a revolution
[20:21] <markey> "DigiKam has blah blah..."
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> It's the iPod curse^
[20:21] <txwikinger> exactly.. tell this to Apple
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> iDon't know how to start a sentence with i
[20:22] <djsiegel> ok, back on topis
[20:22] <djsiegel> topic
[20:22] <djsiegel> lol
[20:22] <Sput> iDontCare
[20:22] <Riddell> djsiegel: one idea we had is that you'd try kubuntu for a day or more and find us some papercuts from an outsiders view
[20:22] <markey> but seriously, repeating their follies doesn't help us ;)
[20:22] <djsiegel> Riddell: any outsider could help you identify those annoyances
[20:22] <djsiegel> I have so much work already...
[20:22] <djsiegel> maybe someone could set up some user tests?
[20:23] <djsiegel> it only takes a cafe and an afternoon
[20:23]  * txwikinger has some "outsiders" at home :D
[20:23]  * apachelogger notes that JontheEchidna wanted to introduce an iEvent to kubuntu-notification-helper :P
[20:23] <djsiegel> while people are waiting for their lattes
[20:23]  * txwikinger notes it should be a kEvent
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I have now changed that member to m_installEvent :P
[20:23] <djsiegel> ok, txwikinger, can I make you in charge (and ScottK can help) of fining a kubuntu paper cut champion?
[20:23] <markey> heh
[20:23] <djsiegel> someone with some blogging skills and time :)
[20:23] <markey> m_digiKam
[20:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ewww
[20:23] <markey> perfect
[20:24] <txwikinger> djsiegel: fine
[20:24] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: according to the conding standard of my C course I would have to make that install_event__
[20:24] <Riddell> rock on txwikinger
[20:24] <djsiegel> If it's left up to me to find kubuntu paper cuts and find people to fix them according to KDE conventions and schedule them and follow up with developers and get patches reviewed and landed, I will fail
[20:24] <markey> m_kUbuntu
[20:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in ubuntuone it would be ___install_event
[20:25] <djsiegel> ok, txwikinger, here is the very start of the lucid kick-off: http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-karmic-lucid/
[20:25] <apachelogger> but oh my, camel + leading m_ is a bit weird :P
[20:25] <djsiegel> we want to do a milestone for next thursday
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> aren't prefixes of _ usually reserved for low-level things?
[20:25] <Riddell> djsiegel: we weren't expecting you to find people to fix them
[20:25] <djsiegel> Riddell: well, I just need to know how the kubuntu paper cut pipeline is going to work
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: It's the preferred style for the kdelibs coding style
[20:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: knh is not kdelibs though, is it? :P
[20:26] <txwikinger> djsiegel: Milestone for fixing the first papercut?
[20:26] <Riddell> djsiegel: txwikinger is an expert beastie triager, I'm sure he'll be able to dredge up some cuts
[20:26] <djsiegel> awesome
[20:26] <djsiegel> exactly what we need
[20:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: better derive from amarok's style ... which is based on kdelibs anyway
[20:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: just made more applicat_able
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> I'll take a look at it
[20:27] <djsiegel> txwikinger: so, you should blog somewhere with a lot of traffic about how the kubuntu community fits in with paper cuts for Lucid
[20:27] <djsiegel> I suggest we observe the same milestones
[20:27] <djsiegel> and schedule bugs together
[20:27] <djsiegel> and try to share the paper jams
[20:27] <txwikinger> djsiegel: like Planet Ubuntu :D
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: But first, I shall package ubuntuone-kde
[20:28] <djsiegel> e.g., we do a "Microblogging" paper jam instead of a "Gwibber" paper jam
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: How does a source package called "ubuntuone-client-kde" sound?
[20:28] <djsiegel> and we try to get a bunch of gwibber paper cuts, and some chotoq? cuts
[20:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: good for me
[20:28] <txwikinger> choqok
[20:28] <djsiegel> th
[20:28] <djsiegel> x
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I imagine this will all go upstream eventually?
[20:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: only goes ppa for now anyway :)
[20:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: need to poke upstream first
[20:29] <txwikinger> djsiegel: ok.. I will look into the issue today after work
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> ok, the point is that the PPA package is going to be quite temporary
[20:29] <apachelogger> which means first I need to get like a bln people in my back so that I can force upstream towards making all shiny for me :P
[20:29] <djsiegel> txwikinger: awesome, look forward to hearing your plans
[20:29] <txwikinger> good
[20:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, it is a tech preview after all .. just need the deps all sorted out
[20:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that said ... it needs to replace whatever ships the dbus service com.ubuntuone.Authenticate
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh, what version should I give it? Would it be safe to use 0.1~git20091124
[20:31] <apachelogger> ubuntuone-client-gnome that would be
[20:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: 0.0 would be even saver I suppose :)
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> true
[20:31] <apachelogger> then we can go 0.0+something and 0.0something and 0.0.something :)
[20:31] <Riddell> version number < 0 scare me
[20:31] <apachelogger> hehe
[20:32] <Riddell> it also has a habit of breaking scripts which assume it's not possible
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> It would be epic if an app had a version of "0"
[20:33]  * apachelogger hates when scripts doubt the superior logic of mathematics!
[20:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: plasma-netbook is currently less than zero (0~something)
[20:34] <JontheEchidna> What's the equiv. of svn export for git?
[20:35] <Lex79> Riddell: can you upload again kdepim from bzr? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdepim/ubuntu/revision/92
[20:36] <Riddell> Lex79: is that you fixing my mess-ups? :)
[20:36] <Lex79> Riddell: yep
[20:36] <Lex79> :)
[20:37] <ryanakca> ScottK (or anybody else interested in sponsoring): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/bangarang
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: so, ubuntuone-client-kde still needs ubuntuone-client-gnome for authentication, right?
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> or technically the ubuntuone-client package
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> or maybe both
[20:44] <apachelogger> both
[20:44] <Riddell> I'm going to put koffice 2.1 into kubuntu-ppa/backports now-ish
[20:44] <apachelogger> but it needs a replaces on -gnome, because it provides the same file for the dbus service
[20:45] <apachelogger> just that the one from -kde is obviously superior :P
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> Wouldn't it also have to conflict -gnome?
[20:45] <apachelogger> no
[20:45] <apachelogger> it needs -gnome installed
[20:45] <apachelogger> but overwrites that one file from -gnome
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> I thought replaces just say that dpkg can replace the file on upgrades
[20:46] <apachelogger> well, not, i just replaces conflicting files :P
[20:46] <apachelogger> s/i/it
[20:46] <apachelogger> independent of upgrading or not
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> oh, ok
[20:46] <apachelogger> anyhow that is a short term workaround until ubuntuone pushes a version with improved backend/frontend splitting
[20:52] <ScottK> Riddell: You should watch out.  maco is telling everyone in #ubuntu-women you're English.
[20:52] <maco> AM NOT
[20:52] <maco> i said Great Britain
[20:52] <ScottK> Show me logs?
 learned this last week.
 britain = england+wales
 great britain = britain + scotland
 uk = great britain + north ireland
 maco: I was trying to explain that to someone yesterday but I forgot which was which
 Pici: People have tried to convince Ridell of that and failed.
[20:53] <seele_> djsiegel: yo
 czajkowski is from the Republic of Ireland, so she's not even UKish
[20:53] <seele_> djsiegel: i can do paperkuts again
[20:53] <djsiegel> oh nice
[20:53] <ScottK> seele_: He and I talked some about things being more unified.
[20:53] <seele_> ScottK: sounds good to me
[20:53] <ScottK> Having a focus on 'microblogging clients' and not 'gwibber' for example.
[20:53] <maco> ScottK: he was wearing a skirt on friday! he's not english
[20:53] <seele_> djsiegel: the hardest thing i had last time was finding people to actually work on them
[20:53] <djsiegel> seele_: that is the hard part
[20:53] <djsiegel> same here
[20:54]  * ScottK is reasonably certain it was a kilt.
[20:54] <seele_> maco: it's not a skirt, it's a kilt!
[20:54] <djsiegel> http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-karmic-lucid/
[20:54] <djsiegel> this is the direction I want to go in
[20:54] <maco> which is just Scottish-talk for "socially acceptable skirt"
[20:54] <ryanakca> Haha... Why do they call it a kilt? Because the last person who called it a skirt got kilt :P
[20:54] <djsiegel> we can change it a bit to make it easier for us to both follow a similar schedule
[20:54] <maco> http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/2009-20-11-mackenzie-jonathan-uds.jpg
[20:54] <ScottK> Nay.  It's broader than just Scotland.  Although rarer, kilts are also worn in Ireland a bit.
[20:55] <seele_> djsiegel: ok, i can check it out more tomorrow.. i've got one more class for the day
[20:57] <djsiegel> ok cool, thanks
[20:57] <djsiegel> let me know what you think
[20:57] <ScottK> seele_: Note from the backscroll that txwikinger has volunteered to be your minion on this.
[21:01] <seele_> ScottK: cool
[21:02] <ScottK> Everyone should have a minion.
[21:02] <seele_> djsiegel: when does the countdown begin?
[21:02] <ScottK> Although when the minion's get minions, it gets complex.
[21:03] <seele_> oh, 12/03
[21:05] <djsiegel> seele_, yeah, next week
[21:05] <djsiegel> the first three milestones/weeks are karmic leftovers
[21:05] <djsiegel> so we can just find unfixed paperkuts from last cycle
[21:14] <ryanakca> Debian and Ubuntu have two different tarballs for the same version of knmap. Would it be possible to sync and get Debian's tarball instead?
[21:14] <nixternal> yes
[21:15] <ryanakca> nixternal: OK
[21:15] <nixternal> we used to call that a fakesync back in the day...I am sure we still do
[21:15] <Riddell> you have to do it manually though, not through archive admin
[21:16] <ryanakca> Ah, a fakesync has already been done. OK. In that case, I'll ask for a sync just because we don't have any changes left in Ubuntu :)
[21:25] <ryanakca> bug 487833
[21:25] <nixternal> damn, I just deleted all of my damn sent mail
[21:41] <nixternal> Nightrose: the whole kde name change thing, was this an e.V. topic at all? was it voted upon or anything?
[21:42] <Nightrose> nixternal: no it was discussed on promo and devel list and blogs and then decided at the marketing/www sprint
[21:44] <nixternal> gonna take some getting used to...a ton of docs need to be changed now :)
[21:44] <nixternal> though, I will always say what I have since 1997, KDE :)
[21:44] <Nightrose> heh yea
[21:44] <Nightrose> sorry
[21:45] <Nightrose> it will take some people a long time to get used to this
[21:45] <Nightrose> but in the end it is the right thing
[21:45] <nixternal> it is still the 'Kool Desktop Environment'!
[21:45] <Riddell> ta da http://www.kubuntu.org/news/koffice-2.1.0
[21:45] <Nightrose> nixternal!!!!
[21:45] <Nightrose> get off my lawn! ;-)
[21:46] <nixternal> haha
[21:46] <Nightrose> Riddell: yay!
[21:46]  * nixternal thinks we should look at KOffice for KNR instead of the overly bloated OOo
[21:46]  * Nightrose agrees
[21:46]  * Nightrose pats her poor 4 gig
[21:47] <nixternal> it just needs KWord and kspread
[21:47] <jjesse> agreed
[21:47] <jjesse> actually it just needs kate :)
[21:47] <nixternal> I accidentally clicked on a .doc file earlier, and had no clue OOo was even rocking until about a minute later
[21:48] <nixternal> or we could do Google docs :p
[21:48]  * nixternal runs and hides
[21:51] <Blizzz> aren't vim and sc good enough?  *ponder*
[21:56] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, hi :)
[21:58] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, I have a question about the audio section I am working on, how will that be organized
[22:18] <nixternal> dhillon-v10: take a look at the help:/kubuntu/musicvideophotos in Konqueror...it will be similar to that, but audio only apps....we will need to figure out which questions are FAQ concerning audio in Kubuntu, and attempt to cover them
[22:19] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, alright thanks so we are only going to cover ripping audio, playing audio and then the FAQ's
[22:35] <nixternal> dhillon-v10: ya, something like that just for that topic...sound type stuff, ie. drivers, hardware, and what not will go in a hardware topic, which is a scary one right now
[22:36] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: I was reading in the email chain... are we going to be able to get the docs fixed/backported into Karmic?
[22:54] <Riddell> this amuses me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EURONfIqJ6o
[23:07] <freinhard> huh, koffice 2.1 in the update list, that's quick!
[23:12] <Riddell> we don't slack off.  at least neversfelde doesn't
[23:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, any thoughts on how to implement the ubuntuone file sync stuff into dolphin?
[23:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: can't say I've thought about it, from which angle?
[23:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elbcK8Moaew 1:20
[23:23] <apachelogger> the nautilus plugin provides nice visible feedback as to whether a file is in sync, and if connected to the server at all...
[23:23] <apachelogger> visual feedback even
[23:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: I don't think that is all to possible in kde right now... well other than via an on browsable kio slave, which is not as nice as the nautilus integration
[23:24] <nixternal> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[23:24] <nixternal>   kword-kde4: Depends: libwv2-4 but it is not installable
[23:24] <nixternal> E: Broken package
[23:24] <nixternal> err
[23:25] <nixternal> E: Package libwv2-4 has no installation candidate
[23:25] <nixternal> hrmm
[23:26] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, this is like the 7th time I have had a plasma workspace crash, would it be possible to write the documentation if I move back to gnome and run kubuntu in a virtual machine
[23:26] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, kontact crashes almost all the time
[23:27] <nixternal> of course
[23:27] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, thanks I really love kubuntu but need a stable system though something I can work on
[23:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: it might be possible with the kfileshare stuff that rgreening has been looking at for smb
[23:28] <nixternal> Riddell: looks like the article for KOffice2.1 also needs to note for Karmic that you need the 'Kubuntu Beta Backports' PPA as well
[23:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'll poke rgreening then, thanks for the input :)
[23:28] <nixternal> or move wv2 into Kubuntu Backports PPA
[23:28] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, bye
[23:29] <Riddell> nixternal: done
[23:30] <nixternal> you are my hero :)
[23:34] <nixternal> heh...this whole time I thought I was running the latest KDE...I wasn't...a whole release behind
[23:56] <Riddell> nixternal: 0.0.1 releases behind, that makes it sound less bad
[23:57] <nixternal> hehe, true