[09:48] <FFEMTcJ> mornin
[10:05] <FFEMTcJ> There is supposed to be a meeting isnt there/
[10:05] <FFEMTcJ> ?
[10:06] <czajkowski> which kind ?
[10:06] <FFEMTcJ> Asia Oceania
[10:09] <lifeless> perhaps. let me check the wiki apge
[10:10] <lifeless> indeed
[10:10] <lifeless> persia: ping
[10:11] <lifeless> elky: ping
[10:11] <lifeless> amachu isn't online
[10:11] <lifeless> let me send a mail
[10:11] <FFEMTcJ> Sounds good
[10:19] <lifeless> FFEMTcJ: sorry, noone seems to be around. next meeting will be in two weeks, but you're welcome to wait here for the rest of the hour just in case folk do show.
[10:19] <FFEMTcJ> :-(
[10:19] <FFEMTcJ> ok
[10:19] <FFEMTcJ> thanks
[10:24] <popey> or add yourself to one/both of the other membership boards and attend theirs if they are sooner
[10:24] <FFEMTcJ> popey: ;-)
[10:25] <leoquant> FFEMTcJ you did add yourself to the america's membership board aswell?
[10:26] <FFEMTcJ> leoquant: they didnt get to me on the last meeting, so i was gonna try this one..
[10:26] <leoquant> yep
[10:26] <FFEMTcJ> dunno when it'll be tho
[10:29] <leoquant> lifeless there aren't any reserves who could lead membership approvals ad-hoc?
[10:30] <lifeless> leoquant: we're not quorate right now.
[10:32] <FFEMTcJ> how many does that take, out of curiosity?
[10:33] <leoquant> FFEMTcJ afaik 4
[10:33] <FFEMTcJ> gotcha
[10:36] <FFEMTcJ> lifeless: if you meet the # you need, please ping me..
[10:37]  * popey volunteers if you need me lifeless 
[10:48] <amachu> hi
[10:58] <lifeless> amachu: hi there, meeting was an hour ago ;)
[10:59] <amachu> lifeless: yes
[10:59] <amachu> was there a quorum?
[10:59] <lifeless> nope
[10:59] <lifeless> there was Me! and that was all :(
[11:14] <amachu> lifeless: ok. sorry for not making it. held up in a medical check up..
[11:14] <amachu> fine let me make it remind all..
[13:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[13:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:59. The chair is NCommander.
[13:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[13:00]  * NCommander waves to ogra persia StevenK asac davidm  JamieBennett dyfet  GrueMaster 
[13:01] <JamieBennett> I'm here
[13:01] <plars> what? not at me?
[13:01]  * ogra is here
[13:01]  * GrueMaster snores loudly.
[13:01] <NCommander> and plars
[13:01] <plars> you hurt my feeling
[13:01] <ogra> how about you do that call before the startmeeting in the future (like we ask every week since ages :P )
[13:01] <NCommander> ogra, will do
[13:02] <ogra> thanks :)
[13:02] <ogra> since it can take a while to get everyone to show up...
[13:02] <NCommander> plars, I apologize, by time I realize I forgot a name, you already responded :-/
[13:02] <davidm> hello
[13:03] <plars> NCommander: heh, was kidding
[13:03] <asac> NCommander: hi
[13:03]  * ogra wonders if GrueMaster is to jetlagged to show up :)
[13:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091124
[13:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091124
[13:03] <asac> odd ... calendar disagrees with time
[13:03] <plars> he responded earlier
[13:03] <NCommander> asac, Google and daylight savings don't agree
[13:03] <ogra> asac, yeah still DST issues i think
[13:04] <ogra> though i got a proper reminder today ... didnt have that the last times
[13:04] <asac> ok
[13:04] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[13:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[13:04] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to report back on midori usability
[13:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to report back on midori usability
[13:04] <ogra> we did that at UDS
[13:04] <ogra> done ...
[13:04] <NCommander> ah
[13:04] <NCommander> ok
[13:05] <NCommander> then there's one action item that didn't get answered
[13:05] <NCommander> [topic] asac to talk to Nokia on their optimizations to gecko
[13:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  asac to talk to Nokia on their optimizations to gecko
[13:05] <asac> yes. so UI frontend is closed source as it seems
[13:05] <ogra> obsolete after the UDS decision ?
[13:05] <asac> so that makes it unsuitable
[13:05] <ogra> i mean we decided on chrome already anyway
[13:05] <asac> ogra: well. for touch screen we still need something
[13:05] <NCommander> ogra, fair enough
[13:05] <asac> but not urgently
[13:06] <ogra> grab-n-drag for chrome then :)
[13:06] <asac> hehe
[13:06] <asac> maybe
[13:06] <NCommander> Spec Review
[13:06] <NCommander> er
[13:06] <NCommander> [topic] Spec Review
[13:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Review
[13:06] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications
[13:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications
[13:06]  * ogra is still fiddling with all of his
[13:06] <NCommander> [topic] ARM: properly support alternate images in addition to live  (NCommander)
[13:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM: properly support alternate images in addition to live  (NCommander)
[13:06] <asac> i dont think we should go through all the specs here as most stuff is still drafting
[13:06] <ogra> yeah
[13:06] <asac> unless you have specs you really want to discuss now
[13:07] <NCommander> If that's the case, I'm willing to skip specification review if everyone here agrees
[13:07] <asac> so from my side: i reviewed a few that were set to review and dropped comments and set back to drafting
[13:07]  * StevenK appears
[13:08] <asac> if you disagree with the comments i made (usually just minor adjustments)
[13:08] <asac> let me know ;)
[13:08] <ogra> and we should switfch back to use LP for spec listing
[13:08] <ogra> using a wikipage just duplicates work
[13:08] <asac> two more things:
[13:08] <NCommander> asac, I disagree you moved a spec to Drafting over work items alone
[13:08] <asac> NCommander: work items usually reflect implementation details
[13:08] <davidm> NCommander, the spec is not done without work items
[13:09] <NCommander> davidm, it has work items
[13:09] <ogra> all we need ?
[13:09] <plars> that's all mine are waiting on, filling in the work items this morning then they are ready for review
[13:09] <asac> NCommander: i would like the work items to be complete before saying spec is ready to go ;)
[13:10] <asac> anyway so two more things:
[13:10] <NCommander> asac, my issue is that I can't give any more specific than a general overview of what I intend to do until i get into it specifically and know what I need to do specifically
[13:10] <asac> a. if you have specs that you want to impelement for lucid that are not accepted for lucid let me know
[13:10] <ogra> like stacked squashfses ?
[13:10]  * ogra doesnt get how we missed that one
[13:11] <asac> b. if you have drafted a spec that were accepted for lucid but have no assignee lets discuss that off-meeting
[13:11] <asac> we need to find an assignee
[13:11] <asac> ogra: yes. we can check that after the meeting
[13:11] <asac> NCommander: ok thats fine.
[13:11] <ogra> yep
[13:12] <ogra> NCommander, you can make that a work item ;)
[13:12] <ogra> "research possibility of bleh"
[13:12] <asac> NCommander: if you say you cannot split the work items up then there is not much you can do expect adding a work item like ogra said
[13:12] <asac> except
[13:12] <NCommander> asac, lets discuss this out of the meeting
[13:13] <asac> sure.
[13:13] <NCommander> I rather not run over this week
[13:13] <asac> that was the idea
[13:13] <asac> move on
[13:13] <NCommander> Does anyone else have any spec-related discussion to bring up?
[13:14] <NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
[13:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
[13:14] <ogra> drop that ?
[13:14] <plars> no reason to keep it now
[13:14] <ogra> turn it into "image status" or something
[13:14] <asac> i would think so, yes.
[13:14] <NCommander> Right
[13:14] <NCommander> Ok
[13:14] <NCommander> [topic] Image status
[13:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Image status
[13:14] <NCommander> :-)
[13:14]  * ogra didnt test yet
[13:15] <ogra> also how do we want to handle images this time
[13:15] <NCommander> Image builds have failed consistantly on armel due to pulse and the kernel metapackage being broken
[13:15] <ogra> last round we had one responsible person per arch
[13:15] <ogra> not sure thats possible once we have more images
[13:15] <ogra> which we are likely to get soon
[13:15] <NCommander> ogra, probably best to have one person assigned to report status on a specifically SoC
[13:16] <ogra> indeed
[13:16] <NCommander> Lets cross that bridge when we get to it
[13:16] <asac> how do image build failures get communicated?
[13:16]  * ogra misses sponsoring on the agenda btw, that should have been added a month ago
[13:16] <asac> e.g. are there FAIL mails send?
[13:16] <asac> bugs?
[13:16] <NCommander> ogra, I was told to remove it
[13:17] <asac> NCommander: ?
[13:17] <ogra> asac, the responsible person needs to research the details of the failure anyway, so i personally look at the logs every day for my responsibilities
[13:17] <JamieBennett> asac: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
[13:17] <NCommander> asac, the live image buildsystem dumps logs on people.canonical.com
[13:18] <asac> NCommander: where exactly?
[13:18] <NCommander> asac, you can also get livefs build falure emails by asking cjwatson to put you on the list (I get them for xubuntu)
[13:18] <ogra> NCommander, you were told to skip it for end of the release, but we decided to have a rolling topic for sponsoring
[13:18] <ogra> the ftbfs list is for single packages only
[13:18] <NCommander> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/
[13:18] <asac> NCommander: thx
[13:18] <ogra> has not much influence on image building usually
[13:18] <NCommander> I looked at the FTBFS at pulseaudio
[13:18] <ogra> NCommander, hmm
[13:18] <NCommander> Two major issues
[13:18] <ogra> could you mention that in a channel somewhere in the future
[13:19]  * ogra is just doing the same
[13:19] <NCommander> First, -march=armv6 is forced on the commandline which breaks with compiler
[13:19] <ogra> but if you are doing it already, i'll stop
[13:19] <ogra> i think its just reverting my patch
[13:19] <NCommander> (it tried to do armv6+thumb2, and fails miserably)
[13:19] <ogra> just drop it completely
[13:19] <NCommander> ogra, that doesn't fix the issue
[13:19] <ogra> was only for karmic, as i stated in the changelog
[13:20] <ogra> well, then fix it :)
[13:20] <NCommander> The second problem is that pulse has handwritten ARM ASM as of the latest upstreams
[13:20] <ogra> yes
[13:20] <ogra> thats why the flag was added
[13:20] <NCommander> It uses conditional instructions in a method thats incompatible with Thumb2
[13:20] <ogra> anyway, we're off topic
[13:20] <NCommander> ogra, I'm discussing on why image fails are breaking, I don't see that as off topic
[13:20] <ogra> and the url above isnt the image build logs
[13:21] <asac> hmm
[13:21] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/lucid/
[13:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/lucid/
[13:21] <ogra> thats for image builds
[13:21] <NCommander> asac, ogra er, yeah, that's livfefs-rootfs (which is needed for live CD's): http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/
[13:21] <NCommander> oh, ogra beat me to it
[13:21] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/ is only livefs
[13:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/ is only livefs
[13:21] <asac> thx
[13:22] <ogra> the build system will re-use yesterdays livefs if the livefs build failed
[13:22] <ogra> so it doesnt have any influence on the actual image build (apart from producing a broken image)
[13:22] <NCommander> ogra, someone needs to fix pulse by either making the compiler not build it with Thumb2, or fix the handwritten ASM. Its three instructions in a macro, so it shouldn't be too difficult
[13:22] <ogra> (which you can only find out through a boot/install test)
[13:22] <ogra> NCommander, go ahead, all yours
[13:23] <ogra> i have to do spec work for the rest of the week
[13:23] <NCommander> ogra, I'm AFK after Thursday for two weeks.
[13:23] <NCommander> I'll look at today, but if i don't crack it, someone else will have to take this up
[13:23] <ogra> still, pulse is off topic, lets keep that for after the meeting
[13:23] <asac> NCommander: maybe there is a legacy compiler flag or something?
[13:23] <asac> anysway lets move that offline
[13:23] <ogra> right
[13:23] <JamieBennett> NCommander I can take a look tomorrow, send me the details of where you are in an email and I'll pick it up
[13:23] <NCommander> asac, there is, haven't tested it yet.
[13:23] <StevenK> asac: That isn't it
[13:24] <NCommander> [topic] Sponsoring Status
[13:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsoring Status
[13:24]  * NCommander didn't sponsor anything during UDS, but planning to spend some time on the sponsoring queues before taking off
[13:24] <ogra> i guess there is a lot of merges that can be sponsored
[13:25] <StevenK> One I get over my jetlag enough to remember my passphrase, I will
[13:25] <asac> who of the team has upload rights?
[13:25] <ogra> but given that our main focus is specs this week we should probably skip it until we start active archive work again
[13:25] <ogra> asac, depends... main or universe ?
[13:25] <NCommander> asac, I'm MOTU. ogra, and StevenK are core dev
[13:25] <asac> i guess me, StevenK: ogra: NCommander (universe?) ...
[13:25] <asac> ok thanks
[13:25] <ogra> yeah
[13:26] <ogra> dyfet is on his way to motu ... and JamieBennett too i guess
[13:26] <NCommander> asac, when i do sponsoring though, I'm usually in the backport queue since I'm the only one in ubuntu-backports versus the general queue however
[13:26] <ogra> NCommander, just make sure its on the sponsoring list that davidm uses
[13:26] <ogra> so we get it counted
[13:26] <NCommander> ogra, it won't show up due to the way backports are counted.
[13:27] <davidm> ogra, correct
[13:27] <asac> ogra: what list is that? isnt that dholbach?
[13:27] <ogra> i think so
[13:27] <davidm> asac, yes dholbach generates the report
[13:27] <asac> ok
[13:28] <asac> http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[13:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[13:29] <asac> ok move on?
[13:29] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[13:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[13:29] <ogra> we should have something about the ARM specific seed/launcher/etc on the agenda in the future imho
[13:30] <NCommander> ogra, I added ARM Image Status to the items list
[13:30] <NCommander> I can boil that down to ARM Status
[13:30] <ogra> image != apps
[13:30] <ogra> we have our own app list now
[13:30] <ogra> so we should track them
[13:30] <NCommander> ogra, so Image Status, and ARM Status?
[13:31] <plars> we're accumulating a decent backlog of arm related bugs
[13:31] <ogra> imae status and "ARM apps list status" i'd say
[13:31] <ogra> *image
[13:31] <plars> many of them need triaging still, but there may be some easy ones to take care of there
[13:31] <plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel if anyone has time to take a look, would be good to start whittling it down
[13:31] <NCommander> plars,  a ton of them was the ubuntu-iso-tester being fixed
[13:31] <ogra> or "ARM UNE seed status"
[13:31]  * NCommander finally think he got all 100 or so emails from that.
[13:32] <ogra> i'm not sure how much we care about jaunty bugs
[13:32] <plars> NCommander: I'm looking at the actual list, not the bugmail
[13:32] <ogra> davidm, ??
[13:32] <plars> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel
[13:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel
[13:33] <plars> I moved several over yesterday, still a few that are probably arm specific and not subscribed yet.  I'll work on that today after blueprints
[13:33] <asac> jaunty bugs feel kind of unimportant if they are confirmed to be fixed in karmic/lucid
[13:33] <asac> of course depends on the severity and what our consumers expect
[13:33] <ogra> right, but we have a bunch that are open in jaunty only ... should we close them ?
[13:33] <davidm> ogra, unless it's been 18 months we care, if they are critical and are SRU candidates.
[13:33] <NCommander> asac, my general rule is if they/re SRU worthly, we SRU it
[13:34] <davidm> if not we don't care
[13:34] <asac> sure. if we have a patch at hand thats a safe bet
[13:34]  * ogra really doubts we'll find the time to even work on them
[13:34] <persia> If they aren't critical, please leave them open as "known bugs", so that potential jaunty users can see the issues ahead of them.
[13:34] <asac> right
[13:35] <asac> or set them to won't fix if they are not SRU candidates?
[13:35] <asac> either of that works for me
[13:35] <ogra> i'd just like to see the list be smaller and show the ones we can actually put time in
[13:36] <asac> ogra: that should be handled through "Importance"
[13:36] <ogra> keeping all the jaunty bugs we wont fix seems to just crowd the list
[13:36] <asac> High or higher -> we care
[13:36] <asac> medium or below -> we usually dont care -> either open or set to won't fix teaching user about the SRU policy etc.
[13:36] <persia> Um, please don't.  "Won't Fix" implies there is a reason they should not be fixed, as opposed to just that they aren't going to be fixed because nobody got around to it yet.
[13:36] <persia> Just leave them as open tasks with nobody assigned, and if someone wants to do it, they can.
[13:37] <asac> persia: i think won't fix is used to invalidate targetted bugs
[13:37] <asac> buy the release team
[13:37] <asac> dont think its completely off ... if you report a bug you will still see them as duplicate suggestions
[13:37] <asac> s/buy/by/
[13:37] <persia> asac: That and also to indicate that something will never be done (some gnome-desktop type bugs)
[13:38] <NCommander> persia, the jaunty task can be set to Won't Fix
[13:38] <ogra> right
[13:38] <NCommander> But for a lot of packages, an SRU patch does apply with minimal work to jaunty
[13:38] <persia> NCommander: I'm asking that it not be *unless* there is some reason it should not be fixed.
[13:38] <asac> persia: so we are just talking about jaunty task ... not the main task
[13:38] <NCommander> (if the issue existed in karmic)
[13:38] <persia> Just because you're too lazy/busy to do it doesn't mean someone else won't do it.
[13:38] <ogra> take bug 428263
[13:38] <ogra> thats unfixable in jaunty without backporting the whole of mono
[13:38] <asac> if the bug is fixed in lucid and we decide we dont fix it in jaunty i dont see why we shouldnt set the jaunty task to wont fix
[13:39] <ogra> hmm, bad example :P
[13:39] <asac> like you confirmed, its used by release team to deny targeted bugs
[13:39] <NCommander> ogra, of course, but there are other bugs which the same patch fixes it across multiple versions.
[13:39] <ogra> there are also several gcc/toolchain related bugs that are automatically fixed with a newer toolchain
[13:39] <persia> For that example, I agree "won't Fix" is the right answer, because it's just too invasive to fix it.
[13:40] <persia> The difference being "bug which can't be fixed sensibly" vs. "bug which nobody got around to fixing, and nobody currently plans to fix".
[13:40] <ogra> and we surely wont backport toolchains
[13:40] <asac> persia: bugs with medium or below prio are "too invasive" by definition for an SRU
[13:41] <asac> i suggested that high or critical bugs stay open in any case
[13:41] <persia> asac: Interesting argument.  You're suggesting that any old task which isn't approved for SRU should inherently be "Won't Fix"?
[13:41] <plars> so if it is disqualified as a target for SRU, then it should be won't fix, if it's a possibility (or even if there is doubt about whether or not it could be SRU) it should be kept open
[13:41] <asac> persia: having an open task for jaunty usually means: "approved for SRU" .. unless its set to wont fix
[13:42] <asac> remember only folks with bugcontrol can approve nominations
[13:42] <asac> so accepting a nomination usually means: yes, this is a bug that should get fixed in the task (aka SRU)
[13:42] <persia> OK.  That makes sense to me.  It's stuff which won't get fixed no matter how many people volunteer.
[13:42] <plars> asac: you need more than that actually, I think you have to be in drivers
[13:43] <persia> It's somewhere between those, but it's messy.  Let's ignore that for now.
[13:43] <asac> persia: more or less yes. there might be exceptions if there is a patch at hand we can take as ride along. but we also dont want to encourage community folks to put their time in such bugs
[13:43] <asac> so seting to wont fix would be a reasonable step for medium or below targetted bugs imo
[13:44] <asac> anyway if we cannot get consent here lets discuss after meeting
[13:44] <NCommander> Final topic I have
[13:44] <persia> asac: I'm presuming we're discussing bugs already fixed in newer releases (where even a patch won't make it SRU-worthy).
[13:44] <persia> I agree patches are useful, but they belong to current-dev-release unless it's an SRU bug.
[13:44] <persia> Right.
[13:44] <NCommander> I'm not going to be here for two weeks after this meeting. persia already agreed to run the meeting for the first week of Decemember
[13:44] <NCommander> *December
[13:45] <asac> persia: right that was what ogra ment afaict. bugs that are jaunty only but are not SRU candidates
[13:45] <NCommander> I'm looking for a volunteer for next week
[13:45]  * persia suggests using dates, to avoid confusion
[13:45] <persia> 1 December needs a volunteer
[13:45] <persia> 8 December is covered
[13:45] <ogra> grmbl
[13:46] <NCommander> No volunteers?
[13:46] <asac> I can take that if noone else wants to do it ;)
[13:46] <NCommander> asac, seems you get it by default
[13:46] <ogra> sorry, line dropped ...
[13:46] <asac> NCommander: where do you put the (now updated) "default" agenda items?
[13:46] <asac> NCommander: right ;)
[13:46] <NCommander> asac, I just edit the wiki page to reflect what we actually covered.
[13:46] <asac> NCommander: link?
[13:47] <NCommander> asac, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091124#preview
[13:47] <NCommander> I usually post it at the start of the meeting.
[13:47] <asac> (sorry, still ned to catch all resources ;))
[13:47] <ogra> Sponsoring Statusemsv ?
[13:47] <asac> NCommander: do we have a template for that?
[13:47] <NCommander> asac, no
[13:47] <ogra> we copy over last weeks and edit usually
[13:48] <asac> yeah. template is similar easy ;)
[13:48] <asac> but ok
[13:48] <ogra> or NCommander does as our -meeting chair
[13:48] <NCommander> asac, I'll create the pages in advance for you
[13:48] <NCommander> you just need to filli n the blanks for next week
[13:48] <asac> NCommander: rock ;) ... do you usually send out reminder mails?
[13:48] <ogra> yes
[13:48] <NCommander> asac, yes, to ubuntu-mobile
[13:48] <ogra> to the mobile list
[13:48] <NCommander> Minutes also go to the same place
[13:48] <NCommander> (as I discovered during UDS)
[13:49] <ogra> right, thats new
[13:49] <NCommander> ogra, well, its more remembered versus new :-)
[13:49] <ogra> you didnt do that in the past
[13:49] <ogra> new for *you* :)
[13:49] <asac> ok thanks
[13:49] <NCommander> ogra, fair enough
[13:50] <NCommander> anything else to cover?
[13:50] <NCommander> if not, I'm going to close the meeting
[13:50] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[13:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:50.
[13:50] <asac> thanks all!
[13:51] <ogra> thanks
[13:51]  * GrueMaster returns to sleep.
[15:00]  * kees looks around for DMB meeting
[15:01]  * tseliot is waiting for the same reason
[15:01]  * porthose is waiting for the same reason
[15:02] <Keybuk> kees: who's driving?
[15:02] <kees> Keybuk: not sure; the only agenda I can find is referenced from the TB agenda.
[15:02] <Keybuk> DMB: compiz-related upload rights for Travis Watkins (approved by MC)
[15:02] <Keybuk> DMB: core-dev reactivation for Daniel Chen
[15:02] <Keybuk> DMB: core-dev application for Marc Deslauriers (approved by MC)
[15:02] <Keybuk> DMB: Apply upload rights: Charlie Smotherman (porthose)
[15:02] <Keybuk> though I don't feel that two is in any way quorate
[15:03] <kees> 'zactly
[15:03] <pitti> hello
[15:04] <kees> up to 3!  :)  heya pitti
[15:04] <Keybuk> I think we can go with three
[15:04] <pitti> sorry for being late
[15:04] <Keybuk> any more is just greedy
[15:04] <kees> heh
[15:04]  * Keybuk recalls pitti said he'd chair <g>
[15:04] <mdz> I am here, but I didn't know this meeting was happening
[15:04] <pitti> #startmeeting
[15:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is pitti.
[15:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:05] <Keybuk> mdz: well, _if_ you'd turned up at the last TB meeting ... <g>
[15:05] <pitti> mdz: we agreed to it on last TB, and I sent it to u-d-a@
[15:05] <mdz> it's not on my calendar, the platform calendar, the fridge calendar or any other that I look at
[15:05] <mdz> pitti, bah, so I'm supposed to keep up with mailing lists during the second half of UDS? ;-)
[15:05] <Keybuk> mdz: that sounded like volunteering an action to me <g>
[15:05] <pitti> right, sorry about that; will poke people to add to fridge next time
[15:06] <mdz> is this meant to be a recurring time slot?
[15:06] <mdz> if so, it's not very good for me
[15:06] <Keybuk> yes, afaik
[15:06] <pitti> we didn't decide on that really
[15:06] <pitti> just that we need one to process the current backlog
[15:06] <Keybuk> it makes sense to have a regular slot
[15:06] <Keybuk> so that if there is agenda, we cover it
[15:07] <Keybuk> if there's nobody waiting, we simply don't hold the meeting
[15:07] <pitti> [TOPIC] DMB meeting time
[15:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  DMB meeting time
[15:07] <tseliot> is there going to be another meeting on November 26?
[15:07] <pitti> mdz: it's the same time slot as TB; should we have a different one more convenient for you then?
[15:07] <kees> I would prefer it not be any earlier, but I'm otherwise generally open.
[15:08] <pitti> tseliot: certainly not for DMB?
[15:09] <pitti> for me, I'm also fine with the current slot; bit earlier/later WFM
[15:10] <Keybuk> mdz: there's nothing on your calendar at this time?
[15:10] <tseliot> pitti: ah, right, that will be for MC
[15:11] <Keybuk> pitti: I suggest we move on
[15:11] <pitti> *nod*
[15:11] <Keybuk> let's keep the current time for now
[15:11] <pitti> [ACTION] pitti to mail DMB about meeting time discussion
[15:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to mail DMB about meeting time discussion
[15:11] <Keybuk> on the simple basis that everyone else is here :p
[15:11] <pitti> [TOPIC] compiz-related upload rights for Travis Watkins
[15:11] <Keybuk> (who's not on holiday)
[15:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  compiz-related upload rights for Travis Watkins
[15:12] <pitti> hey Amaranth
[15:12] <Keybuk> Amaranth: are you here?
[15:12] <pitti> the MC recommended Amaranth for compiz-related upload rights
[15:12] <Keybuk> he has also been re-added to MOTU
[15:12] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TravisWatkins/MOTUDeveloperApplication has an additional endorsement by mvo
[15:13] <Keybuk> the application simply says "compiz-related" packages, but does not provide a list of such packages
[15:13] <Keybuk> oh
[15:13] <Keybuk> yes it does
[15:13] <pitti> see wiki page
[15:13] <Keybuk> right where it says "List of compiz packages"
[15:13] <pitti> personally, I know Amaranth from #ubuntu-desktop, he's quite active there nowadays
[15:14] <Keybuk> indeed, and he's been one of the most active community packagers on those packages according to Launchpad
[15:14]  * kees nods.
[15:14] <Keybuk> I am happy to +1, even in his absence
[15:15] <pitti> kees, Keybuk: does either of you have particular questions to him?
[15:15] <kees> +1 on the basis of active, good, endorsed work on this focused set of packages.
[15:15]  * pitti takes that as a "no"
[15:15] <kees> I don't.  :)
[15:15] <Keybuk> this seems a simple matter of giving someone permission to upload without their sponsor
[15:15] <Keybuk> and their sponsor has explicitly given their endorsement
[15:15] <pitti> +1 from me as well, based on previous work and personal experience
[15:15] <Keybuk> pitti: do you know how to do the LP magic?
[15:15] <pitti> [AGREED] compiz-related upload rights for Travis Watkins
[15:15] <MootBot> AGREED received:  compiz-related upload rights for Travis Watkins
[15:16] <pitti> Keybuk: unfortunately no; cjwatson still has an action item for documenting this
[15:16] <pitti> do you?
[15:16] <Keybuk> ok, then cjwatson gets the actions for doing it
[15:16] <Keybuk> nope
[15:17] <pitti> [ACTION] cjwatson to enable upload privileges for Amaranth for list of packages in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TravisWatkins/MOTUDeveloperApplication
[15:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to enable upload privileges for Amaranth for list of packages in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TravisWatkins/MOTUDeveloperApplication
[15:17] <kees> (revision 3)
[15:17] <pitti> [TOPIC] core-dev reactivation for Daniel Chen
[15:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev reactivation for Daniel Chen
[15:18]  * pitti pinged dtchen
[15:18] <pitti> he applied directly to DMB
[15:18] <pitti> does anyone want to ask him questions, and thus shuold we wait for him?
[15:19]  * pitti doesn't, he has enough recent experience with him
[15:20] <kees> I'd like to know the history about how/why core-dev was removed for dtchen, but it wouldn't stop a vote from me.
[15:20] <geser> didn't dtchen simply expire?
[15:21] <Keybuk> (just looking that up)
[15:21] <pitti> (AFAIK it was a matter of "time out" due to lack of time)
[15:21] <kees> pitti: yeah, that's my vague memory as well.
[15:21] <Keybuk> right, in which case we should interview to find out more
[15:21] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, is there logged history?
[15:21] <Keybuk> pitti: no
[15:22] <Keybuk> in these cases, we've talked to the candidate to ask for more information
[15:22] <Keybuk> even if it's just "ran out of time, but have some now"
[15:22] <pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-lib/+changelog https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+changelog https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+changelog
[15:23] <pitti> ok, sounds like we should postpone to the next meeting and explicitly invite him then
[15:23] <Keybuk> pitti: agree
[15:23] <kees> yeah, I'd like to know a little more about his plans for upstream coordination.
[15:23] <pitti> [ACTION] pitti to invite dtchen for next DMB meeting
[15:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to invite dtchen for next DMB meeting
[15:24] <pitti> [TOPIC] core-dev application for Marc Deslauriers
[15:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev application for Marc Deslauriers
[15:24] <pitti> approved by MC
[15:24] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers/CoreDevApplication
[15:24] <pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-October/002266.html
[15:24] <pitti> mdeslaur: hi
[15:24] <mdeslaur> hi everyone :)
[15:25] <Keybuk> \o/
[15:26] <Keybuk> mdeslaur: you're currently a MOTU and one of the Ubuntu Security Team engineers
[15:26] <Keybuk> what kinds of things do you intend to do in main?
[15:26] <mdeslaur> Upload rights to main would permit me to fix security issues in the dev release, and also, there's proactive security stuff that I would like to do
[15:27] <mdeslaur> I fix a lot of bugs in AppArmor user-space
[15:27] <mdeslaur> and would like to further apparmor profile development work
[15:27] <mdeslaur> in the future, I would like to start working on authentication also
[15:28] <mdeslaur> of course, I also have interests in other things that are not security related
[15:28] <mdeslaur> bug fixing, for example
[15:29] <pitti> mdeslaur: how many main packages do you get sponsored on average?
[15:29] <mdeslaur> I'm guessing around 30-40 uploads per cycle, although I could look it up
[15:30] <mdeslaur> and this is on different packages
[15:30] <pitti> I guess most of these are sponsored by kees/jdstrand?
[15:31] <mdeslaur> kees, jdstrand, zul, and you probably sponsored a couple
[15:31] <pitti> I remember a few, yes
[15:32]  * nixternal looks in
[15:32] <pitti> mdeslaur: it's a week before feature freeze, and there's a major new apparmor version released upstream which you would like to get because of some new feature; what are your next steps?
[15:32] <zul> yeah I have sponsored a few
[15:34] <mdeslaur> pitti: I would review the changes to make sure the new version wouldn't introduce regressions in our dev release, I would make sure Debian has it as well so we don't have problems when they do get it. I would test it in a VM to make sure nothing seems to break, and would merge it from debian.
[15:35] <mdeslaur> pitti: does that answer what you were looking for?
[15:36] <pitti> mdeslaur: please also mention it in your team'srrelease report for "planned major changes", so that the release team gets aware of it and has  it in mind when looking at regression bug reports
[15:37] <mdeslaur> pitti: sounds good, will do
[15:38] <kees> I don't have any questions; I'm already a fan of mdeslaur's careful work.  :)
[15:38] <pitti> I'm done, too
[15:38] <pitti> Keybuk?
[15:38] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm done
[15:39] <pitti> [VOTE] adding Marc Deslauriers to core-dev
[15:39] <MootBot> Please vote on:  adding Marc Deslauriers to core-dev.
[15:39] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:39] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[15:39] <pitti> +1
[15:39] <MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:39] <kees> big +1 from me, based on daily experience of his great work.
[15:39] <Keybuk> +1
[15:39] <MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:39] <kees> +1
[15:39] <MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:39] <pitti> [ENDVOTE]
[15:39] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
[15:39] <pitti> mdeslaur: congratulations, and thanks for your great work!
[15:40] <mdeslaur> cool! thanks guys!
[15:40]  * mdeslaur dances around the room and high-fives his cat
[15:40] <pitti> [TOPIC] DMB: Apply upload rights: Charlie Smotherman (porthose)
[15:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  DMB: Apply upload rights: Charlie Smotherman (porthose)
[15:40] <porthose> hello DMB :)
[15:40] <pitti> this isn't actually DMB matter, we just need to apply the ACL
[15:41] <Keybuk> the MC unanimously recommends Charlie Smotherman for upload rights for
[15:41] <Keybuk> Quickplay, Upnp-Inspector and Pylirc.
[15:41] <Keybuk> action -> cjwatson?
[15:41] <pitti> actually, I think I figured it out
[15:41] <kees> sounds right
[15:41] <pitti> I'll try to apply the ACLs for porthose and Amaranth myself, and if that fails, ask cjwatson
[15:41] <pitti> porthose: hello!
[15:41] <porthose> pitti, hi
[15:42] <pitti> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:42] <pitti> 10 seconds
[15:42] <Keybuk> none :)
[15:42] <pitti> [TOPIC] chair for next meeting
[15:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  chair for next meeting
[15:42] <Keybuk> should match TB chair
[15:42] <kees> \o
[15:43] <pitti> done
[15:43] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[15:43] <kees> thanks!
[15:43] <pitti> I'll follow up to the application mails
[15:43] <pitti> #endmeeting
[15:43] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:43.
[15:43] <geser> does the DMB have a plan/schedule for the DMB/MC merging? or is this TB area?
[15:43] <pitti> geser: TBH, I'd wait with that until cjwatson and the other DMB members are back
[15:44] <pitti> i. e. in two weeks; would that be ok for you?
[15:44]  * nixternal notes that it is fine with him
[15:44] <geser> sure
[15:44] <nixternal> dholbach: ^^
[15:45] <dholbach> sounds good - we could probably try figuring out all the open issues via email already?
[15:47] <pitti> Keybuk: yep, edit_acl.py bends to my will; actually quite easy for per-package
[15:48] <pitti> $ edit_acl.py -p cjsmo -s pylirc add
[15:48] <pitti> I just couldn't figure it out for packagesets
[15:49] <Keybuk> pitti: cool
[15:50] <Keybuk> geser: I think we need a whole town hall thing for that
[15:50] <Keybuk> there's a lot of opinions
[15:53] <nixternal> opinions are like as...well you know :D
[17:59] <bjf> Roll Call
[17:59]  * manjo here 
[17:59]  * cking is here
[17:59]  * ogasawara waves
[17:59]  * gnarl thinks 1min to early
[17:59]  * manjo brb 
[18:00]  * rtg waves
[18:00]  * apw arrives
[18:00]  * sconklin is here
[18:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <bjf> Settle in folks, I'm expecting this one to be a little longer than usual as we work our way through a new agenda
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01]  * manjo back
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/LucidDetail
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/LucidDetail
[18:02] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
[18:02] <ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (0 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <ogasawara> Alpha 1 Milestoned Bugs (11 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21443
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21443
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21443
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21443
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21443
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
[18:02] <ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs (50 bugs) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 4 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx51
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
[18:02] <ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
[18:03] <bjf> any comments on any of that?
[18:03] <apw> no much in the way of bugs on lucid, as expected
[18:03] <ogasawara> yup, still early in the cycle so nothing too exciting
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-decision (apw)
[18:03] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-decision
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-decision (apw)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-decision
[18:04] <apw> Ok as those who were at UDS are aware we have chosen 2.6.32 as our kerenl
[18:04] <apw> we still need to announce it formally on ubuntu-devel which is going to occur this week
[18:04] <apw> ..
[18:05] <bjf> does '..' mean your done or there is more to follow?
[18:05] <apw> done
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)
[18:05] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
[18:05] <ogasawara> Thanks to apw, summary of work items listed in the whiteboard at https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
[18:06] <ogasawara> I'll get this blueprint/spec cleaned up and drafted for approval.
[18:06] <ogasawara> bjf: done
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-sru-policy-review (smb, ogasawara)
[18:06] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-sru-policy-review
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-sru-policy-review (smb, ogasawara)
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-sru-policy-review
[18:06] <apw> ogasawara, yep, they are my take on the items, please clean them up and update the whiteboard
[18:06] <apw> and the status page will magically update
[18:07] <apw> the review is done, we just need to close out updateing the docs
[18:07] <apw> and its then done
[18:07] <gnarl> bjf, Beside of the new policy being accepted not much update yet
[18:07] <apw> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
[18:07] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
[18:07] <apw> just been through the list of things to update and enumerated them
[18:07] <apw> we'll start the process of pulling them up to date shortly
[18:08] <apw> ..
[18:08] <gnarl> apw, And we get together about patch review?
[18:08] <apw> gnarl, ack we have that on the list too ... forgot... its on the task list
[18:08] <gnarl> ack
[18:08] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:08] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:09] <apw> ok thats mostly done
[18:09] <apw> we identified some anomles and those need tracking and applying
[18:09] <apw> ..
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
[18:09] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
[18:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:09] <sconklin> Andy has updtaed the docs.
[18:10] <sconklin> There is one issue that worries me, and I'll be investigating
[18:10] <apw> we have a couple of work items on that one, one easy the other needs some work
[18:10] <apw> ..
[18:10] <sconklin> The nouveau driver devels ask thatthe entire drm stack from nouveau be brought in with the driver
[18:10] <sconklin> and this may break other drivers, notably intel
[18:10] <sconklin> but it's too early to know much
[18:11] <apw> i hope that noone else is doing that
[18:11] <apw> we'll have to investigate what is in fedora
[18:11] <sconklin> I'm going to see what fedora did and where they pulled from
[18:12] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:12] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
[18:12] <manjo> the pm-utils package was fixed by the foundations team
[18:12] <manjo> to rotate logs
[18:12] <manjo> I need to start working on adding hooks
[18:12] <manjo> to let apport report the frequency of suspend/resume failure
[18:13] <manjo> I need to set some time aside with ogasawara  and learn the triage scripts
[18:13] <manjo> so that I can start looking in to common failure points
[18:13] <manjo> in the bugs
[18:13] <ogasawara> manjo: ack, I've got a few ideas of scripts for you to use
[18:13] <apw> manjo, can you try and add those as tasks to your blueprint whiteboard if they are not already there
[18:13] <manjo> ogasawara, great... I believe we can do it after thanks giving hols
[18:13] <manjo> apw, ack
[18:14] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:14] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:14] <jjohansen> The plan is to pull in the version being pushed upstream on the next push, I have been working on the audit refactor to address Eric Paris's NAK, and then I have some new feedback from Tetsuo to address.
[18:14] <apw> jjohansen, when are you thinking you'll have the next upstream push ready?
[18:14] <jjohansen> I also need to update the spec a bit more
[18:14] <jjohansen> apw: it should happen this week
[18:15] <apw> cool.  if you can publish that as a branch too (against mainline) then i can pull it into lucid
[18:15] <jjohansen> will do
[18:15] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
[18:15] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
[18:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:16] <rtg> I don't have much to do on this for awhile.
[18:16] <rtg> ..
[18:16] <bjf> rtg, should we pull it from the agenda? It will keep coming up every week.
[18:16] <apw> the only thing that i see needing doing was documenting
[18:16] <rtg> yep, until it becomes more topical
[18:16] <bjf> rtg, ack
[18:16] <apw> what we said we would be supporting, then its dead till M
[18:17] <bjf> [ACTION] Pull this topic from the agenda
[18:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Pull this topic from the agenda
[18:17] <rtg> apw, well, the day after Lucid releases we have to get started on it
[18:17] <apw> yeha thats what i mean, its 'we will do this for M' and wait for M to open
[18:18] <apw> ..
[18:18] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw)
[18:18] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw)
[18:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:18] <apw> there are two bits here, there is the work csurbhi is looking at for initramfs
[18:18] <apw> and there are some other patches i have under test ...
[18:19] <csurbhi> yes, i am working into the rootfs population
[18:19] <manjo> apw, any change for server kernels ?
[18:19] <apw> we're way over budget still, but we have some avenues
[18:19] <csurbhi> whether this could be done in parallel right now
[18:19] <jjohansen> and pulling apparmor out of the initramfs
[18:19] <apw> yep that too
[18:19] <jjohansen> current loading is .4 sec
[18:19]  * apw adds this as a task on the boot speed thing
[18:19] <apw> and marks it in-progress
[18:20] <jjohansen> so pulling AA is 1/4 of what we need to hit our target
[18:20] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:21] <apw> jjohansen, ack thats awsome
[18:21] <bjf> I've been making contacts upstream, setting expectations w.r.t. daily builds, etc.
[18:21] <bjf> I'm off this week and will get serious about it first then next.
[18:21] <bjf> ..
[18:21] <apw> bjf i'll put together an audio task list
[18:21] <apw> as a seed for you, you can update the file later when you have full lists
[18:21] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
[18:22] <manjo> bjf, I don't see amitk
[18:22] <cking> run out of power?
[18:22] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:22] <manjo> probably gone to by more batteries
[18:22] <jjohansen> I pulled down the latest version of the patches against 2.6.32 this morning and I am working through the diffs (50+ patches), I'll post a pull request when I am done with it
[18:23] <jjohansen> amitk was meeting with a contractor
[18:23] <apw> jjohansen, i asume we have a few ec2 tasks
[18:23] <apw> perhaps they need their own list ?
[18:24] <jjohansen> couldn't hurt
[18:24] <bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Misc. (apw, all?)
[18:24] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/LucidMisc
[18:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Misc. (apw, all?)
[18:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/LucidMisc
[18:24] <apw> mostly these are arm things
[18:24] <apw> and little things, like checking if we have updated trees, nothing urgent or to report
[18:24] <apw> ..
[18:24] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:25] <apw> We have just rebased to 2.6.32-rc8 and all is building
[18:25] <apw> we are waiting on an -ec2 kernel else we are replete with kernels
[18:25] <apw> otherwise its quiet, its early in the cycle
[18:25] <apw> ..
[18:26] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
[18:26] <smb> Dapper:   2.6.15-55.80 (security)
[18:26] <smb> Hardy:    2.6.24-25.63 (security)
[18:26] <smb> Intrepid: 2.6.27-15.43 (security)
[18:26] <smb> Jaunty:   2.6.28-16.57 (updates)
[18:26] <smb> Karmic:   2.6.31-15.50 (updates)
[18:26] <smb> Security update in progress. After that, the pending stable update for
[18:26] <smb> Karmic is supposed to go to proposed.
[18:26] <gnarl> ..
[18:27] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
[18:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
[18:27] <ogasawara> Current regression stats:
[18:27] <ogasawara>  * regression-potential bugs: 39 (up 3) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
[18:27] <ogasawara>  * regression-release bugs: 53 (up 11)  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release
[18:27] <ogasawara>  * regression-update bugs: 12 (up 3)  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update
[18:27] <ogasawara>  * regression-proposed: 2 (up 2) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-proposed
[18:27] <ogasawara> I'm still reviewing regression-potential bugs to see if they should be moved to regression-release or if they've been resolved.
[18:27] <gnarl> Did those in proposed get there newly?
[18:27] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
[18:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
[18:28] <ogasawara> gnarl: I think one is not a real regression-propose bug (but I only had a quick glance)
[18:28] <apw> don't think we've had a bug day for a bit with UDS et al
[18:28] <ogasawara> We'll start resuming Kernel Bug Days in two weeks (ie Tues Dec 8).  I'll send email.
[18:28] <gnarl> ogasawara, Well, now its not anymore... :-/
[18:29] <manjo> ogasawara, ?
[18:29] <ogasawara> gnarl: the other is a regression-proposed for lucid
[18:29] <gnarl> Wouldn't that be potential?
[18:30] <manjo> ogasawara, I understood we will have no more bug days ...
[18:30] <ogasawara> gnarl: right, I believe it should be s/regression-proposed/regression-potential/
[18:30] <ogasawara> manjo: we're still going to have bugs days, just not in the format where each developer is assigned a specific list
[18:30] <gnarl> ogasawara, ok ack
[18:30] <manjo> ok
[18:31]  * ogasawara cleans both bugs up to avoid further confusion
[18:31] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:32] <apw> ..
[18:32] <manjo> none here
[18:32] <bjf> I like the '..' to indicate done and would like everyone to start using it
[18:32] <gnarl> …
[18:32] <apw> just to say we are starting to use the new burndown stuff
[18:32] <manjo> ..
[18:32] <apw> so the contents of the status page is all generated now
[18:33] <apw> you should be adding sensible tasks to the whiteboard of your blueprints
[18:33] <apw> and those will propogate to the status as magic
[18:33] <apw> pitti will be sending out some information later
[18:33] <apw> but the short of it is
[18:33] <apw> Status:
[18:33] <apw> <text about what and where you are in broad brush>
[18:33] <apw> Work Items:

[18:33] <apw> and it'll all work
[18:34] <sconklin> is there a way we can show that we have taken a task?
[18:34] <apw> status is TODO, DONE, INPROGRESS
[18:34] <apw> move it inprogress i guess
[18:34] <apw> we may need to get more clever later, but generally tasks on a blueprint are the owners unless otherwise mentioned
[18:34] <apw> though i do have a bunch on other peoples
[18:35] <apw> you can add (LOGIN) to the end of the description, ie before the :INPROGRESS
[18:35] <apw> anyone has any questions do ping me in irc
[18:35] <cking> apw, perhaps this needs documenting in a wiki page somewhere
[18:35] <bjf> apw, after I see an example or two, i'll manage
[18:36] <apw> yep there is meant to be docs from pitti already, should have them this week
[18:36] <sconklin> done for the kernel startup time whiteboard
[18:37] <bjf> sounds like that's all...
[18:37] <bjf> going once
[18:37] <gnarl> ²
[18:37]  * manjo 3 happy thanksgiving to all 
[18:37] <bjf> going twice
[18:37] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:37.
[18:37] <cking> thanks bjf
[18:38] <ogasawara> thanks bjf, especially since you're supposed to be on holiday today
[18:39] <apw> bjf, yeah you should have said before the meeting not after!
[18:40] <bjf> apw, just an hour (40 minutes) not a problem