[00:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: btw, ubuntuone-client-kde packages in my ppa
[00:26] <maco> cool http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/konqueror-icon-setting-tvs-ablaze
[00:28] <Riddell> best thing about that story is it links to one of my first contributions to KDE, the KDE on 24 story http://jriddell.org/24-kde.html !
[00:30] <nixternal> I didn't even catch that last night when watching either
[00:30] <JontheEchidna> haha
[00:36] <brmassa> guys, after reading the TIMELORD project, i would like to help. is there anything i can do?
[00:50] <Riddell> brmassa: depends on what you're into
[00:50] <Riddell> brmassa: testing, coding, packaging, bug triaging, documentation, user support all needing done
[00:51] <brmassa> Riddell: hen jonathan! im a programmer, so i can do some work on this. and i since i dont use KDE in Brazilian Portuguese, i didnt know that translations were a problem. so i can also work on that
[00:53] <brmassa> Riddell: well... except user support, i might help basically on anything. so the question is now: what is lacking MOST?
[00:53] <brmassa> Riddell: what task one extra hand will do the most difference?
[00:54] <Riddell> brmassa: right now I could do with some testing of the koffice packages just published on kubuntu.org
[00:54] <brmassa> Riddell: i just tried to install... but its missing a package...
[00:55] <Riddell> brmassa: wv?
[00:55] <brmassa> Riddell: "kword-kde4: Depends: libwv2-4 but it is not installable"
[00:55] <Riddell> brmassa: try again; sudo apt-get update
[00:58] <brmassa> Riddell: aha! its now installing. what specifically should be analysed?
[00:59] <Riddell> brmassa: that it installs is the first step, so we fixed that problem :)
[00:59] <Riddell> brmassa: that it runs is next
[00:59] <Riddell> and then I go to sleep
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: according to the Amarok hacking texts, m_installGui would be preferred for member variables (http://gitorious.org/amarok/amarok/blobs/7e1f785d5faf0d32ad4370ee494acbef84e966df/HACKING/intro_and_style.txt)
[01:01] <brmassa> Riddell: i mean.... its a basic "all programs in the suite are working!" kinda test? i will try them...
[01:01] <Riddell> brmassa: yep
[01:01] <Riddell> brmassa: going to sleep now but leave your message here.  then hang around and you'll find things needing done
[01:02] <brmassa> Riddell: ok so. nite
[01:03] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: have you removed kdepim-runtime-libs4 from kdepim-runtime ?
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: yeah, I followed debian in that regard
[01:04] <brmassa> KOFFICE 2.1: the app icons now returned to be images of objects instead the abstract geometric shapes. its desirable?
[01:10] <brmassa> KOFFICE 2.1: KPresenter are not showing images (only shows a grey box) AND they are not saved/loaded again.
[01:10] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: we have still libmaildir4 (in kdepim) transitonal package which depends on kdepim-runtime-libs4 :(
[01:11] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: that should be changed to kdepim-runtime
[01:11] <Lex79> ok I'm going to change that
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> actually
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> you could probably remove the transitional package altogether
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> !info libmaildir4 hardy
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> yeah, you can drop that
[01:13] <Lex79> well, I'll drop :)
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> supported upgrades this release are hardy -> lucid and karmic -> lucid
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> and the package is already transitional in karmic
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> brmassa: It would be helpful to report all the koffice bugs you may find to bugs.kde.org. Thanks for testing.
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> We don't directly develop KOffice, but I'm sure the KOffice developers would appreciate the feedback
[01:15] <brmassa> JontheEchidna: ok. but the icon changes i believe its a Kubuntu packaging thing right?
[01:16] <JontheEchidna> I don't think so.
[01:16] <brmassa> JontheEchidna: ok so. i just tought it was. all bug-related stuff to bugs.kde.org so...
[02:10] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: I and we have a big problem :( I can't start kde after upgrade because kde4libs is built against qt beta and not rc1
[02:11] <Lex79> see the log please http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36012588/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.kde4libs_4%3A4.3.3-0ubuntu3_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[02:17] <ScottK> ryanakca: knmap will need to wait until a new upstream version to sync.  Once we have a different md5sum for a particular tarball, it can't be changes.
[02:17] <ScottK> changes/chagned
[02:22] <Lex79> ScottK: have you seen that buildlog? ^^ kdelibs is built on qt beta instead rc, and now I can't start kde, binary incompatible
[02:23] <ScottK> Lex79: I haven't perhaps I can take a look at it in a few hours.
[02:24] <Lex79> thank you
[02:30] <brmassa> JontheEchidna: just reporting back that KOffice2.1 is working quite fine on KJaunty. all specific bugs were reported on kde bug tracker
[04:33] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: You around?
[04:33] <nixternal> i am now it seems
[04:34] <DarkwingDuck> hehehe
[04:35] <DarkwingDuck> Can you check this doc that I'm about you send you? I want to make sure it falls within standards.
[04:41] <nixternal> sure
[04:41] <DarkwingDuck> it's 6 or 7 pages
[04:41] <nixternal> i may not do it tonight, but i can at least do it tomorrow
[04:41] <DarkwingDuck> Okay
[04:42] <DarkwingDuck> I'm looking to see if that is even the right style that you guys are looking for or if im missing something.
[08:20]  * ghostcube mentions karmic is bad release 
[08:20] <ghostcube> :)
[08:20] <ghostcube> ehlo peoples
[08:21] <ghostcube> the first time ever i needed to reinstall 2 machines after upadting from an ubuntu version
[08:21] <ghostcube> o.o
[08:21] <ghostcube> nah 3 if i include the mac from yesterday
[08:25] <ghostcube> i pray for lucid to work fine again
[08:27] <apachelogger> ewww
[08:27] <apachelogger> qt creator does not fit on my netbook screen
[08:27] <apachelogger> oh my
[08:27] <ghostcube> rofl
[10:29] <markey> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/11/giving-up-the-gimp-is-a-sign-of-ubuntus-mainstream-maturity.ars
[10:29] <markey> :)
[10:29] <Tm_T> awww
[10:39] <Sput> isn't F-Spot a Mono-based application?
[10:43] <Tm_T> is
[10:43] <Tm_T> what about it?
[10:46] <Sput> ah was just wondering, I'd thought I've read somewhere that there was no Mono in the default install
[10:46] <jussi01> Sput: we dont ship fspot in kubuntu :D
[10:47] <Tm_T> Sput: yes no mono in default _kubuntu_ install (:
[10:48] <tsimpson> libmono2.0-cil is already default in Ubuntu, Edubuntu and UNR it seems
[10:48] <tsimpson> shame on them all
[10:52] <jussi01> why is tomboy so important?
[10:52] <jussi01> :P
[11:21] <Mamarok> jussi01: especially since you can have kjots, knotes, basket...
[11:21] <jussi01> :D
[11:24] <Tm_T> can someone explain to me something about usability?
[11:25] <Tm_T> string freeze is crawling in KDE
[11:26] <Tm_T> and, I don't know how I should show to users how to use feature in kwin theme
[11:28] <mgraesslin> Tm_T: for what is it?
[11:28] <Tm_T> B2 theme has ability to move the titlebar
[11:28] <Tm_T> and there's shortcut to do it manually if you don't like the automation
[11:29] <Tm_T> but the shortcut is not easy to know so I would like to explain it to users somehow
[11:29] <mgraesslin> hmm
[11:29] <mgraesslin> I guess the userbase of B2 would understand it...
[11:30] <Tm_T> possibly, it's shift+drag and AFAIK copied from original BeOS and all later incarnations
[11:30] <Tm_T> but I feel somehow dumb to not tell it at all
[11:31] <mgraesslin> is there a ui element for the moving? Then it could be in the what's this text
[11:31] <Tm_T> mgraesslin: only ui element to toggle automove on and off
[11:31] <Tm_T> in settings
[11:33] <mgraesslin> difficult
[11:33] <mgraesslin> it doesn't fit perfectly to set it on the what's this text of that checkbox
[11:33] <mgraesslin> but well if there is a text explaining what automove means it could be added
[11:37] <Tm_T> "When selected, titlebars are automatically relocated to visible positions otherwise, they are only moved manually."
[11:38] <Tm_T> hmm, "only moved manually by pressing shift and drag with mouse." ?
[11:40] <Tm_T> no, that's not right...
[11:40] <Tm_T> I hate explaining things sometimes
[11:42] <mgraesslin> yep know that one
[11:42] <mgraesslin> I always try to find a natural speaker for it
[11:43] <Tm_T> I just add "manually using shift+drag."
[11:47] <Tm_T> committed, back to figuring out build issues
[12:49] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: ping
[13:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Looks like kde4libs built against the old Qt4 due to lack of epochs in the build-depends.  I have a fix ready unless you're about to upload or something.
[13:01] <Riddell> ScottK: go ahead
[13:01] <Riddell> there's probably others which did the same
[13:01] <ScottK> Will do.
[13:01] <Tm_T> epoch... such nice
[13:01] <ScottK> No doubt, but getting kdelibs right is a good start ...
[13:02] <ScottK> Besides, that's the one Lex79 asked me to look into ...
[13:03] <Riddell> I'm trying to work out the latest kdepim build failure
[13:04]  * ScottK nods.
[13:04] <ScottK> kde4libs uploaded.
[13:05] <ScottK> NCommander: qt4-x11 looks like it's in need of some porting help.
[13:10] <Riddell> kde4-config: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.5: undefined symbol: _ZN9QHashData13detach_helperEPFvPNS_4NodeEPvEPFvS1_Ei
[13:10] <Riddell> well, that would explain it
[13:10] <Riddell> best wait for kde4libs to compile with new qt then
[13:10] <Riddell> I'll check for others that I missed the epoch on in the mean time
[13:11] <Tm_T> Riddell: ah, that's the Qt BC issue
[13:18] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You could use kubuntu-ppa project for bugs for KNH until it enters the archive.
[14:01] <Mamarok> maco: Pulseaudio causes problems galore with sound in KDE applications like Amarok and Dragonplayer, and unless the pulseaudio stack from coling is in KDE 4.4 it should *not* be used.
[14:02] <Mamarok> Get yourself informed upstream at KDE, please
[14:02] <maco> yes i know you have claimed many times that it breaks in kde
[14:02] <maco> im just saying blueskaj is dead wrong to say that it replaces your sound drivers
[14:03] <Mamarok> well, take that discussion to PM or elsewhere, but don't discuss that in the support channel, please
[14:04] <Mamarok> maco: also, you should know better that these discussions do not belong in #kubuntu, please respect the guidelines
[14:04] <Mamarok> accusing people of lying is not a good idea anyway, never is
[14:05] <maco> im telling him in pm but he doesnt care to learn how it works, just wants to keep spreading the misinformation he got i dont know where
[14:05] <maco> but that pulseaudio replaces the sound drivers *is* an untruth
[14:06] <Mamarok> maco: it overwrites the alsa settings of Phonon, that is not a lie but the sad trouth
[14:07] <Mamarok> and currently you can't just deactivate pulseaudio
[14:07] <Mamarok> which is clearly a flaw in the pulseaudio design
[14:07] <Mamarok> but since no pulseaudio dev ever cared for KDE before...
[14:07] <Mamarok> luckily coling did take care of, so it should be solved once KDE 4.4 is out
[14:08] <maco> heh i removed pulseaudio while at uds because i couldnt get a DVD to play right, and Riddell and rgreening were there and i fgured they'd start blaming pulse, so i needed to show it was just as fubar with or without
[14:08] <Mamarok> currently Pulseaudio needs too much tweaking to make it run, and you can't expect plain users to spend 30-60 minutres rewriting their configuration files, so Pulseaudio in Kubuntu currently is a no go
[14:08]  * maco snorts
[14:08] <maco> uh huh
[14:08] <maco> right
[14:09] <maco> "set them all to use pulse by default" is sooooo much tweaking
[14:09] <maco> it only breaks if you try to mix some stuff to pulse and some to not-pulse in the multimedia settings
[14:09] <Mamarok> maco: don't be stubborn, read the kde-core-devel malining list, and the phonon ML too so you really know what this is about, please
[14:10] <Mamarok> I have spent the last 6+ months driving mad with debugging users who inadvertently got pulseaudio installed and lost all sound in KDE
[14:10] <Mamarok> I am sick of it, really
[14:10] <maco> or i could just let you all keep saying everything's boken with pulse in horrible ways that magically dont ever happen on either of my laptops
[14:10] <maco> and NO, i do NOT have tech support from dan
[14:11] <Mamarok> maco: form what I have read in your blog you did a lot of tweaking with your BF to get puleaudio work with KDE, so stop it
[14:11] <maco> i did?
[14:11] <maco> where the heck did i say that?
[14:11] <Mamarok> yes, you did, don't remember your own bolg posts?
[14:11] <Mamarok> blog*
[14:11] <maco> apparently not
[14:12] <Mamarok> currently Pulseaudio should not be used with KDE in Jaunty or Karmic, period.
[14:12] <maco> all ive done is set everything in multimedia settings to use pulse
[14:12] <Mamarok> it's not adapted to, and it causes more problems than anything else
[14:13] <Mamarok> it's pointless to defend Pulseaudio in those releases, really, I am just sick of spending hours and hourse on debuggin people because of that
[14:13]  * txwikinger is saddened by the fact that his favorite country music station was shut down while he was at UDS
[14:13]  * apachelogger giggles
[14:13] <apachelogger> country
[14:13] <maco> well ive got no alsa config files, there is a .pulse but i have no idea what's in there so never touched it, and i've reinstalled at least twice since becoming single, so...
[14:14] <maco> i am the only admin of my machine. he has not tweaked it.
[14:14] <txwikinger> apachelogger: It serious! nothing to giggle about
[14:15] <maco> the only mentions of pulseaudio i recall having on my blog are umm...mythtv on hardy...and the last 2 releases "how to remove it"
[14:15] <apachelogger> txwikinger: triue
[14:15]  * apachelogger makes serious face
[14:16]  * txwikinger wonders if he should start a petition with the PM about this
[14:16]  * txwikinger looks in the Canadian Charter of Rights if there is a right to listen to Country music
[14:17] <maco> lets see... others include a workaround for a bug in jaunty alpha that has since been fixed, a "hey look dan has a blog", a post about swfdec, and a mention that pulseaudio was installed if you used the Kubuntu DVD with jaunty
[14:17] <maco> nope, nothing about tweaking it to work with kde. it did that on its own.
[14:18] <txwikinger> maco: pulseaudio is installed here
[14:18] <apachelogger> it also breaks on its own :P
[14:18] <maco> apachelogger: the sound drivers usually help with that ;)
[14:18] <apachelogger> true that
[14:18] <txwikinger> but it always falls back to the other driver since pulseaudio fails
[14:18] <maco> but hey, Mamarok also claims gstreamer is the devil, so... i think its just a bunch of NIH
[14:19] <apachelogger> maco: gst support in phonon is indeed phony though
[14:19] <txwikinger> well.. a devil maybe... but *the* devil?
[14:19] <maco> apachelogger: wouldnt that be phonon's problem, not gstreamer's?
[14:19] <apachelogger> the devil is python though :P
[14:19]  * txwikinger agrees with that
[14:19] <Mamarok> maco: I don't think I said that, but as it is buggy as hell and doesn't work well with KDE...
[14:20] <apachelogger> maco: couldn't say, last I had to do with gst was when they completely raped their api apart from 0.9 to 0.10
[14:20] <apachelogger> not a nice thing to do really
[14:20] <Mamarok> I guess most of our problems will be solved once we have the vlc backend
[14:20] <maco> oh god, vlc failed HARDCORE at playing that DVD
[14:20] <maco> totem with gsteamer was the closest thing to working
[14:20] <txwikinger> gst in Canada is a tax
[14:20] <apachelogger> because ubuntu probably tempered with it :P
[14:20] <Mamarok> maco: works fine here
[14:20] <Mamarok> but since I don't mix Gnome stuff into my KDE...
[14:20] <apachelogger> maco: libdvdcss is the answer to all them problems
[14:21] <Riddell> this was a very problematic DVD
[14:21] <maco> apachelogger: i had it installed
[14:21] <maco> Riddell: it played on dan's computer!
[14:21] <apachelogger> that is weird then
[14:21]  * apachelogger never saw any of his 7 dvs fail with dvdcss :P
[14:21] <Riddell> maco: very problematic and illogical DVD
[14:21] <apachelogger> maco: maybe a hardware problem?
[14:22]  * txwikinger has no sound on 2 of 3 karmic machines
[14:22] <maco> kaffeine&dragon with xine played the BBC intro then said end of disc and stopped when they got to where the DVD menu should be. with gstreamer, they did nothing
[14:22] <txwikinger> and switched off sound on the 3rd one :D
[14:22] <maco> VLC showed image & sound for 1/2 a second, then just went blank and silent for 5-10 seconds, then a blip of movie...
[14:22]  * txwikinger thinks computers make far too much noise
[14:22] <ScottK> Q: How many Kubuntu developers does it take to play a DVD? A: At least one more than they had on hand.
[14:23] <maco> totem-gstreamer and mplayer played it with working sound but the image was all garbled (funny colors and like i had my glasses off)
[14:23]  * txwikinger wonders if he should upgrade his wife's laptop.. .she always wants to watch DVDs
[14:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: they didnt have me :P
[14:24]  * apachelogger is pretty good at doing illegal things :P
[14:24] <maco> ahhhh i want my window manager back!
[14:25] <Riddell> maco: kwin --replace &
[14:25] <maco> that's the trouble. kwin is running
[14:25] <Riddell> maco: larswm --replace &
[14:25] <maco> xmonad's not installed yet
[14:26]  * maco waits for the 1008 packages that come after a reinstall to finish
[14:35] <txwikinger> how can you fix dbus when it runs mad with 100% cpu usage?
[14:56] <maco> argh. the device notifier mounter plasmoid popped up when i plugged in eSATA drive before. now i reinstalled from amd64 to i386 and it doesnt. lovely.
[15:00] <Riddell> check lshal before and after to see if it reaches that level
[15:00] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: for k-n-h, why a separate settings pane? can't it just be part of the system notifications?
[15:10] <rgreening> I could have made the DVD work, but It would have required me installing the lat
[15:10] <rgreening> laptop clean...
[15:10] <rgreening> and Im sure that wasn't an option.
[15:10] <rgreening> :P
[15:24] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: Well, technically if you didn't use the "ignore forever" button on the notifications you could stop the notifications completely in a roundabout way from the regular notifications config
[15:25] <JontheEchidna> But it's quite difficult to get to if you don't know what you're looking for.
[15:26] <JontheEchidna> And once you do find it, you have to roundabout-ly disable it by unchecking all the ways it can notify you
[15:26] <JontheEchidna> well, that's only one way for us, but yeah
[15:26] <JontheEchidna> From a coding point of view it's hard to disable the notification using only the settings given to us from KNotify
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> which would really be deleting the settings for the notification entirely, which isn't very nice either
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> This is different than most applications in that the feature itself is the notification, whereas in most applications the notification notifies about a feature
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> In a nutshell, the knotification api is too limited for what we are trying to do + the System Settings interface it gives for notification control is too complex for our usecase.
[15:30] <yuriy> ok. how about a better name for that then "helper notifications"? that sounds weird
[15:30] <yuriy> what are they helping?
[15:31] <yuriy> *than
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> I have been trying to think of a better name there.
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> They are presenting notifications for Kubuntu's system services that help you run your system
[15:32] <JontheEchidna> Any suggestions would be appreciated. :)
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> "Service Notifications" maybe?
[15:34] <JontheEchidna> If only the sidebar icons could have multirow text...
[15:34] <JontheEchidna> If they did I'd probably name it "Kubuntu Service Notifications"
[15:38] <apachelogger> http://identi.ca/notice/15509736
[15:38] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ^
[15:39] <Nightrose> apachelogger!!!!
[15:39] <Nightrose> *kiss*
[15:40] <Nightrose> i'll try it as soon as i get home
[15:41] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: something like kubuntu notifications is tempting, but that's almost as much a technical detail as "helper"
[15:41] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I decided against that since using Kubuntu would really just be improperly using branding and not adding any detail at all
[15:46] <yuriy> maybe just something like "other" "more" or "additional"? since contextually they really just belong in system notifications
[15:47] <Lex79> ScottK or Riddell: can you retry kdepim? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: hmm, I quite like that idea
[15:49] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: when I've time, can I add pot italian translation to k-n-h? :)
[15:50] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: go right ahead, just be aware that some strings may change
[15:51] <Lex79> good
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> I'll tell you when there are any changes, and we can string freeze soon anyway.
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> On that note, I remembered that I wanted to make a post to kubuntu-devel ml asking for code review, maybe I'll ask for string review too
[15:54] <Lex79> ok
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> At the least after the review we can enter partial string freeze where only new strings can be added.
[15:56] <ScottK> Lex79: I think pimlibs needs done first.
[15:57] <ScottK> (which I just retried)
[15:58] <Lex79> right, pimlibs is ftbs, I saw now
[16:11] <JontheEchidna> If only we could get these people to write documentation: http://kubuntuguide.org/Karmic
[16:15] <amichair> JontheEchidna: need a review, I hear?
[16:15] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Anyone ask them?
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> amichair: yeah, code/string review of: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-notification-helper/trunk
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: probably not, which would be the main problem here I suppose
[16:16] <ScottK> Dunno what would happen if they were asked, but the odds of them saying yes, can't go down.
[16:17]  * amichair used kubuntuguide.org extensively in his first year or two of kubuntuing. concise and useful. excellent site.
[16:18] <MsMaco> yeah i liked ubuntuguide.org when i started
[16:29] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I heard u mention you prefer 'restricted-license' instead of 'restricted' (I agree) - if so, the config checkbox needs to be updated as well
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> well, it's not limited to license-restriction but also patent restriction
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> But yeah, gotta find something better for that
[16:31] <maco> yay i have my window manager back!
[16:32] <maco> i think i can deal with a broken kdm until i get back on the amd64 system
[16:32] <amichair> JontheEchidna: want to take review comments/discussion to a separate channel?
[16:32] <amichair> amichair: i.e. private?
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> here is quite fine :)
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> I mean, if you feel that you need to discuss something privately by all means you can PM me, but as part of Kubuntu here is quite appropriate for discussion of KNH
[16:34] <amichair> m_hookCheckBox and m_installCheckBox could use a rename... they don't quite convey what they are
[16:35] <amichair> e.g. m_upgradeInfoCheckBox and m_restrictedCodecCheckBox or something like that
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> that could be applied to a lot of places, actually
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> For the daemon we have an InstallEvent class which spits out the notifications for restricted codec availability
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> and HookEvent for the upgrade hooks
[16:39] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I'll start off by apologizing if I may seem nitpicky or direct... I strive for high/strict code standards myself, so I'm just saying what pops up as I see it :-)
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> oh, nitpicking is exactly what I'd like. I'm a bit obsessive-compulsive over it too
[16:40] <amichair> great :-)
[16:40] <amichair> then I think by all means you should rename everything to match what it is. readability makes maintainability.
[16:40] <ghostcube> guys i got the non plus ultra 80 mm fans for my pc
[16:41] <ghostcube> 4 times noctua 80 mm :O
[16:41] <ghostcube> 53 m³ air per hour
[16:41] <ghostcube> :D
[16:41] <maco> the very long and mostly-descriptive function names in gnome are the only thing that make their utter lack of comments bearable
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> Upgrade hook is the technical name for the upgrade information, so I'm not too sure about changing everything for that.
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> I do agree that m_installCheckBox is undescriptive, however.
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> as is using Install* for class names, etc
[16:43] <amichair> it doesn't always have to be long and cumbersome... that can be bad too. it just has to require least amount of effort for the reader, and be least error prone or confusing
[16:45] <amichair> JontheEchidna: 'upgrade hook' would be ok too... 'hook' not as much. a hook can be any huge number of things, even in a small context
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> sounds reasonable
[16:46] <amichair> of course I'm not used to kubuntu-specific nomenclature, so if anything I say doesn't make sense, I'm probably wrong :-)
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> Basically all of our python apps are a weird mix of gnome-style method naming and kde-style method/variable naming
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> but maybe you knew that already ;-)
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> Otherwise we try to follow KDE coding principles
[16:50] <amichair> well it usually doesn't matter as long as it's consistent. The wording in a name is more important than using camelcase vs underscores.
[16:51] <amichair> as for separate-line braces.... well... I won't go down that path just yet :-P
[17:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: dont touch my classes :P
[17:05] <apachelogger> yours you can do evil things to, not mine
[17:05] <apachelogger> my poor baby events
[17:06] <amichair> who's responsible for deleting a KNotification instance?
[17:06] <apachelogger> the knotifcation
[17:22] <amichair> JontheEchidna: does upgrade hook always require a restart?
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> Hooks never require restarts, I don't believe
[17:23] <amichair> there's a notifyrc file which claims otherwise
[17:24] <JontheEchidna> oh, that's because it was a copy/paste from [Restart/Event]
[17:25] <amichair> oh, ok then :-)
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> but, good catch, since it would show up as restart in system settings
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> (in the main notification config where you can tweak things)
[17:26] <amichair> great, now that I know my time is not wasted, I can continue :-)
[17:27] <ScottK> apachelogger and Riddell: Did you scribble on JontheEchidna's kubuntu-dev application?
[17:30] <amichair> JontheEchidna: "Ignore" vs "Ignore Forever" is a bit confusing, it's not apparent what "Ignore not forever" would do
[17:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: at least not immediately. maybe they should be contrasted by different wording
[17:33] <JontheEchidna> What would you suggest?
[17:33] <amichair> trying to think of a good alternative
[17:33] <JontheEchidna> strings are harder than they seem
[17:33] <ScottK> How long does ignore (not forever) ignore for?
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> ignore (not forever) ignores until the event happens again
[17:34] <ScottK> How about 'Ignore for now'?
[17:34] <amichair> or 'Ignore this time' vs 'Ignore always'
[17:35] <ScottK> That's work.
[17:35] <ScottK> That's/That'd
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> I like that too
[17:38] <amichair> the i18nc context message should reflect the difference too
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> Would it be better to separate the context and string arguments of an i18nc in all cases or just in cases where the line would be > 90 chars wide otherwise?
[17:43] <seicherlbob> I know this is not a support channel, but can someone explain the way, audio devices are definied in kubunutu, to me? I have a Creative XFI Titanium and i cant configure in- and output devices properly. How are HAL, Alsa, phonom and kde working together?? Where can I define/configure the devices listed in the multimedia-settings?
[17:44] <amichair> JontheEchidna: u mean a linebreak?
[17:44]  * ScottK looks at seicherlbob's quesiton and suggest maco needs to write some docs.
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> amichair: yeah. If I have i18nc("my comment", "string); that's over 90 chars wide I would linebreak after the comma
[17:45] <apachelogger> as long as you indent properly :P
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> I'd line it up with the first argument^
[17:45] <seicherlbob> ScottK: well... i could need some good docs. But everywhere i look, it says, this and that is an audio-backend.... but how do they work together?! and where the hack can i configure the auio devices listed?! This is driving me crazy
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> the question is, should this be done for all lines or just the too-long ones as necessary?
[17:46] <amichair> JontheEchidna: it's no different than any method call... if too long, break it up and indent (whatever ur guidelines define as continuation indent)
[17:46] <ScottK> Right, thus we need some docs.
[17:46] <ScottK> That are actually sensible and usable.
[17:46] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I'd say there's no point in breaking perfectly readable lines
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> Kate automagically takes care of indention <3
[17:47] <seicherlbob> ScottK: too bad most developers hate writing docs, because you loose time to go on developing...
[17:47] <ScottK> seicherlbob: This is true.  Also sound is a very complex subject and not that many people know enough to write about it correctly.
[17:48] <amichair> JontheEchidna: it's just like any other method call. u break when necessary.
[17:49] <seicherlbob> ScottK: the statement about the "complex subject"... i absolute agree with that. i got no clue where to start... anyway, you dont know a thing about it, do you?
[17:49] <ScottK> I know enough to ask experts.
[17:49] <amichair> JontheEchidna: while you're at it, that startDetached line can use a break too :-)
[17:49] <ScottK> That's why I highlighted maco in my first reply to you.
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> hehe, yeah. Got that one ;-)
[17:51] <seicherlbob> ScottK: thanks ;)
[17:51] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I'm thinking the exists(reboot-required) check should be encapsulated in RebootEvent, no?
[17:52] <amichair> (bottom of NotificationHelperModule)
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> amichair: that's getting into apacheloggerdesign (tm), I'd consult him for that
[17:53] <amichair> just like ApportEvent:show() does it's own check...
[17:53] <amichair> apachelogger: ^^?
[17:54] <apachelogger> they are different by design
[17:54] <apachelogger> the apport check depends on another application, whereas the reboot one does not
[17:55] <apachelogger> anyhow, since technically the memory aquired by the rebootevent could be swapped at some point it is sensible to not trigger any calls into it unless necessary
[17:55] <apachelogger> which is also what I would do for apport, if only it would not depend on another application
[17:56] <apachelogger> generally the event the should handle the event and no more than that, the check in apportevent just wouldnt justify its own class, which is the only reason it is indeed part of ApportEvent
[17:56] <amichair> apachelogger: each type of event might have it's own specific checks, why not encapsulate them in the events? maybe even in a common Event method (i.e. hasSomethingToShow of sorts)
[17:57] <Nightrose> apachelogger: checked the google doc and fixed a few typos - looks very good
[17:57] <apachelogger> amichair: because they are not event related
[17:57] <apachelogger> the condition the event
[17:57] <apachelogger> Nightrose: also understandible?
[17:57] <apachelogger> most important that is :D
[17:58] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i think so - i got a little lost in the last 2 paragraphs but otherwise very clear
[17:58] <apachelogger> yeah, I lost focus towards the end, which is the reaon I just stopped :)
[18:01] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: great job on netbook.xml...only thing I see, is we need to add a couple of entities for 'Kubuntu Netbook Remixe' and 'KNR' for you...it is no longer called the Kubuntu Netbook Edition :)  though you got it down well it looks
[18:02] <apachelogger> Nightrose: thanks for the revu :)
[18:02] <apachelogger> *hug*
[18:02] <Nightrose> :)
[18:17] <amichair> ok... though if u want to make it more generic in a future release, I think it can turn out quite nice
[18:17] <amichair> apachelogger: u can have each event implement it's own specific initialization/condition/execution methods, and have the module treat them generically as a simple 'dumb' container, without knowing any specifics about the events
[18:18] <amichair> so adding new types of events boils down to just implementing the event subclass
[18:18] <amichair> it can be nice :-)
[18:23] <maco> ScottK: i dont actually know much about phonon. when dan taught me about the audio stack, i still used gnome
[18:24] <maco> i can point to a crazy looking chart that dan showed last UDS
[18:28] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I see hookevent also has equivalent ignore options... maybe they should all be standardized
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> I just standardized the ignore options for all event-based classes
[18:28] <amichair> JontheEchidna: cool
[19:00] <amichair> JontheEchidna: the hook parser has a bunch of issues, but before getting into them, isn't there an existing rfc822 parser we can use?
[19:01] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, hook parser is probably the worst part of the app, even after it was cleaned up a bit :P
[19:02] <amichair> doesn't any kde lib export this functionality? it's used in many places...
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> I've not looked too hard. I would imagine that the kdepim apps might use one
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> what with email being rfc822
[19:03] <amichair> and, um, rfc822 being email :-)
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[19:04] <amichair> JontheEchidna: feel like looking for it? or wanna fix the impl? it's not that hard, but reusing working code is always better :-)
[19:06] <JontheEchidna> Reusing existing code would be the best long-term solution, but both that and fixing the current impl aren't on the top on my Todo list, so to speak
[19:08] <JontheEchidna> contributions towards either are welcome
[19:08] <amichair> JontheEchidna: lol... I google "kde rfc 822 parse", and what do I see at the bottom?
[19:09]  * JontheEchidna whining about how I don't know of one? :D
[19:09] <JontheEchidna> yep!
[19:09] <amichair> JontheEchidna: :-D
[19:12] <tsimpson> maybe http://api.kde.org/4.3-api/kdepimlibs-apidocs/kmime/html/classKMime_1_1Content.html
[19:12] <amichair> I was just looking there :-)
[19:12] <amichair> or more specifically, in KMime::Headers
[19:14] <tsimpson> lots of classes under KMime::Headers
[19:15] <tsimpson> http://api.kde.org/4.3-api/kdepimlibs-apidocs/kmime/html/classKMime_1_1Headers_1_1Base.html aren't inheritance graphs fun
[19:27] <amichair> is there a code snippet anywhere in sight?
[19:28] <amichair> so that's a single header line...ok...
[19:30] <amichair> KMime::Headers::Generics::Unstructured.... getting closer...
[19:52] <amichair> JontheEchidna: noob q: how do I make the project?
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> amichair: mkdir build; cd build; cmake ../ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr; make; sudo make install
[19:54] <amichair> the last bit will install it instead of the system app?
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> instead of the system app?
[19:54] <amichair> the existing standard karmic notifier
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> oh, not instead
[19:55] <amichair> what does the /usr part do?
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> /usr is the standard install location for our KDE packages, otherwise it would usr /usr/local/ and not get picked up by KDE
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> er, otherwise it would isntall to /usr/local
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> bah, can't spell today
[19:56] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: was it your ppa that the new kmail is in?
[19:56] <jussi01> err koffice
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> nope
[19:56] <jussi01> (I got a mail as that came in... :P )
[19:57] <amichair> JontheEchidna: this might cheer u up :-) http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000840.php
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> heh, seen that
[19:58] <amichair> JontheEchidna: so if it doesn't overwrite the existing app, what does it do?
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> the old app is a python script
[19:59] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I ejnoy it evrey time :-)
[19:59] <JontheEchidna> the new one is a c++ KDE Daemon module + KCModule
[19:59] <amichair> I guess what I'm trying to ask is... can it break my system? should I do this in a vm?
[19:59] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: wow, I was sure I saw something with your name on it... meh anyway...
[19:59] <JontheEchidna> I would say that it won't break yours ystem
[20:00] <JontheEchidna> at the most, while update-notifier-kde is running you won't be able to use the restriced codec install w/ kubuntu-notification-helper
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> but update-notifier-kde's codec notifier would still work in that case
[20:02] <amichair> I think I'll set up a vm anyway... this won't be the last package I build :-)
[20:04] <amichair> Konversation doesn't have copy/paste in the Edit menu... how unconventional
[20:15] <amichair> JontheEchidna: what's the name of the package with all the build tools?
[20:16] <jussi01> !info buildessential
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> build-essential
[20:16] <jussi01> !info build-essential
[20:16] <amichair> 10x
[20:35] <amichair> ? -  ERROR: cmake/modules/FindKDE4Internal.cmake not found
[20:39] <amichair> kde-devel? trying...
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> kdelibs5-dev and gettext are required
[20:56] <ScottK> maco: You are now the Kubuntu audio expert, so please get educated.
[20:57] <maco> oh dear
[20:57] <ScottK> Yeah, well this is how it happens.
[20:58] <ScottK> There's a decent chance we'll end up having to ship pulseaudio in Lucid +1, so get ready.
[20:58] <maco> hehe ok
[20:59] <maco> though seriously, i cant reproduce this "zomg pulse+kde fails miserably" stuff you all keep telling me exists
[20:59]  * ghostcube wants to notice he likes to see libxine + jackd in main and build against each other
[20:59] <ghostcube> :-*
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> Hey ScottK. We changed the Netbook version to a remix now?
[20:59] <maco> i only get breakage if i set some but not all types of output (im not sure what to call these...or why even bother having them) in phonon to be pulse
[21:00] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Yes, for Lucid it will be Remix (don't ask it to make sense, it just is).
[21:00] <DarkwingDuck> LOL Ok, I'll make the changes to the Doc.
[21:00] <DarkwingDuck> I'll also email you the doc and see what you think of it.
[21:03] <dtchen> ooh, is maco handling all audio?
[21:03] <dtchen> I'll totally withdraw my core-dev reapplication in that case
[21:03] <dtchen> :-)
[21:04] <maco> NO
[21:04] <dtchen> yes you are :-)
[21:04] <maco> ScottK: see what you did?
[21:04] <ScottK> I don't see a problem.
[21:04] <maco> dtchen: oi, im just going back to trying to be your apprentice
[21:04] <ScottK> You'll handle it fine.
[21:04]  * dtchen clicks cancel for the DMB moderation queue
[21:04] <ghostcube> :)
[21:05] <ScottK> dtchen: Minions are good to have.
[21:05] <maco> dtchen: you only taught me how gnome works though
[21:05] <dtchen> err, what?
[21:05] <dtchen> I don't deal with GNOME-y bits
[21:05] <ScottK> dtchen: Different word for apprentice, essentially.
[21:05] <dtchen> I'm die (bare metal) up through GSt, no further
[21:06] <dtchen> I've only been forced into Phonon and Flash because of bug reports
[21:06] <dtchen> ScottK: referring to maco's "how GNOME works" reference
[21:06] <maco> dtchen: as in youve splained a bit about pulse to me but nada about phonon
[21:06] <dtchen> Phonon's easy
[21:07] <dtchen> 1) if you ship PA, make sure it's set to use PA first, then fall back to ALSA's virtual 'default'
[21:07] <maco> which is how i use it
[21:07] <dtchen> 2) if you don't ship PA, make sure it's set to use ALSA's virtual 'default'
[21:07] <maco> dtchen: im told this only works in our apartment and that it breaks for every other kubuntu user alive
[21:08] <dtchen> well, there's no magic Dan dust that makes it work, I assure you
[21:08] <al> works for me, too
[21:08] <dtchen> there's just a whole lot of really craptastic audio hardware
[21:08] <maco> *shrug* there's magic alberto aura that makes my wacom behave when he's on IRC
[21:09] <dtchen> people don't tend to want to hear/read that they bought crappy things
[21:09] <al> it just breaks with every second pa update when pa switches config defaults to the opposite
[21:10] <amichair> JontheEchidna: Phonon library or includes NOT found - ?
[21:10] <dtchen> al: well, I certainly am not going to attempt to maintain backward compatibility with every existing config
[21:11] <dtchen> al: that's utter stupidity
[21:11] <al> dtchen: didn't mean to imply that
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> amichair: is this an upgrade from jaunty?
[21:11] <amichair> JontheEchidna: yep
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> try sudo apt-get install --reinstall libqt4-phonon-dev kdelibs5-dev
[21:13] <amichair> JontheEchidna: bingo!
[21:14] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I just did a make clean and re-maked and found out that the compile fails. Be sure to to a bzr pull
[21:14] <dtchen> maco: the corner cases are the hardest, and they're occurring so often that I may as well stop calling them corner cases
[21:15] <dtchen> maco: namely: you begin with a clean Kubuntu (kubuntu-desktop seed) install and decide to install some app that pulls in PA
[21:15] <amichair> JontheEchidna: it compiles fine... (from an hour or two ago)
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> amichair: oh, ok
[21:15] <dtchen> maco: or, you start with a clean Ubuntu (ubuntu-desktop seed) install and decide to install some app that pulls in Phonon
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> I must have broken it after then
[21:15] <dtchen> maco: there is no reasonable way to see whether Phonon needs to be reconfigured appropriately
[21:15]  * amichair gives JontheEchidna a slice of yummy cheesecake for all his help
[21:16]  * JontheEchidna noms
[21:16] <dtchen> maco: it is precisely this split in derivatives that partly makes triaging these bugs utter mindboggling
[21:17] <Sput> ScottK: well, good thing the phonon+pulseaudio patches made it into 4.4
[21:17] <Sput> so maybe it sucks less in the future
[21:18] <ScottK> It seems it's getting pretty unavoidable in Gnome, so "Remove pulseaudio" is less and less of a viable strategy for us over time.
[21:18] <Sput> phonon and pulse sharing a device list seems to be a decent start :)
[21:19] <Sput> not that I've tried, my install is still pulse-less
[21:19] <maco> wow OSX usability fail
[21:19] <Sput> maco: tell news :>
[21:20] <dtchen> please note that I am in no way attempting to *force* PA into Kubuntu; I'm only and 've only been saying that keeping this separation is going to make forward development much more difficult for the very limited resources doing Ubuntu/Kubuntu audio
[21:20] <maco> hrm not sure this works in kde either nwo i think about it. but in gnome, scrolling on top of the volume applet changes the volume. in osx....nope
[21:20] <maco> wow even scrolling on top of the slider thingy doesnt move the handle
[21:21] <Sput> well, when did MacOSX gain a mouse with scrollwheel? a year ago? :D
[21:21] <maco> nah the mighty mouse has been around a whil
[21:21] <maco> whle
[21:21] <maco> while
[21:21] <maco> OMG i HATE apple keyboards
[21:25] <amichair> JontheEchidna: :-( make install fails, looking for nonexistent .../build/install_manifest.txt
[21:26] <amichair> JontheEchidna: wait, may be my bad
[21:38] <amichair> JontheEchidna: how do I make it popup a message for testing?
[21:47] <ScottK> No one uploaded kdelibs-experimental in Lucid (4.3.3) ....
[22:02] <JontheEchidna> amichair: what do you want to test?
[22:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: the parser. I put a sample file (from wiki) in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/, sholdn't that do something?
[22:03] <JontheEchidna> amichair: in theory, yes
[22:04] <JontheEchidna> Is the module loaded? (you can check by running kcmshell kcmkded)
[22:04] <amichair> "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
[22:04] <JontheEchidna> then see if the Notification Helpe module is running
[22:04] <amichair> btw there's a typo in README - s/kcmchell/kcmshell/
[22:05] <JontheEchidna> I like reinstalling apt-file to test hook support
[22:05] <amichair> yes it's running
[22:05] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[22:06] <amichair> the reinstall pops it up. but if I want to experiment with parsing... wonder why the test file doesn't do it
[22:07] <amichair> I'll play around with it some more
[22:07] <JontheEchidna> editing the file apt-file installed would probably be enough for knh to think it's new
[22:07] <amichair> yeah, that's what I'm playing with :-)
[22:08] <JontheEchidna> btw, README fixed. Thanks
[22:08] <amichair> nono, thank you! :-P
[22:16] <Lex79> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.1-0ubuntu2/+build/1365799
[22:16] <ScottK> Lex79: Done
[22:17] <Lex79> ScottK: and kdepim
[22:17] <ScottK> Lex79: Just did kdepim-runtime a little bit ago.
[22:17] <Lex79> oh ok
[22:19] <amichair> JontheEchidna: by touching the apt-file one, I got double-opened windows, crashes, and a strange multi-dialog with one entry empty... will try to figure them out.
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> O.o
[22:20] <amichair> JontheEchidna: any easy way to disable the old notifier?
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> killall python
[22:20] <Lex79> I'm wondering why amarok-common is gone....
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> :P
[22:21] <amichair> JontheEchidna: don't mind if I do...
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> If you can get it to crash again I'd be interested in a backtrace
[22:24]  * NCommander has upload rights to Kubuntu packages now \o/
[22:25] <ScottK> NCommander: You do?
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> oh, here's something. The "run this action" buttons only work once
[22:25] <NCommander> ScottK, see ubuntu-devel
[22:25] <NCommander> ScottK, the upload privilleges have been changed it seems
[22:25] <ScottK> NCommander: You aren't in kubuntu-dev last I checked.
[22:25] <NCommander> ScottK, I'm not?
[22:25] <ScottK> Nope.
[22:26] <ScottK> kubuntu-dev was seeded with core-dev active in Kubuntu.
[22:26] <ScottK> It's a new team.
[22:26] <NCommander> Oh, I guess not
[22:26] <NCommander> bah
[22:26] <NCommander> sorry, missed that bit
[22:26] <ScottK> NCommander: There is an application process.
[22:26] <ScottK> NCommander: We could stand with some qt4-x11 porting.
[22:26] <ScottK> It'd be nice to get the fixes back upstream maybe before 4.6 final.
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> eew. That code is quite wrong.
[22:27] <NCommander> ScottK, oh god, its an ICE
[22:27] <ScottK> NCommander: Enjoy.
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> m_command will be overwritten each time a new hook is listed
[22:28] <ScottK> NCommander: doko's on vacation, so it's all yours.
[22:28] <NCommander> ScottK, I'm on vacation in 30 minutes :-P
[22:28] <ScottK> Right, but you also do this kind of stuff for fun.
[22:28] <NCommander> ScottK, what's this application process
[22:28] <amichair> JontheEchidna: where u at?
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> amichair: hook gui. Stuff's pretty messed up there too
[22:29] <ScottK> NCommander: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDevelopers
[22:29] <NCommander> ScottK, I can't really do lucid porting at the moment due to a lot of issues with my boards and Lucid
[22:29] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I can take a look at it too if u want
[22:29] <ScottK> NCommander: How about powerpc?
[22:30] <amichair> JontheEchidna: that and the parser are actually the only parts remaining to review/fix
[22:30]  * JontheEchidna does feel a certain sense of responsibility since he wrote that crap
[22:30] <NCommander> ScottK, i could look at that, and ia64
[22:30] <ScottK> NCommander: Excellent.
[22:30] <ScottK> NCommander: Feel free to ignore lpia.
[22:30] <ScottK> ;-)
[22:31] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well if u already found the bug and it's easy to fix... I can bzr up quickly and not tell anyone :-)
[22:31] <NCommander> ScottK, lpia is dead
[22:31] <ScottK> NCommander: The judge has passed the sentence, but the firing squad didn't pull the trigger yet.
[22:31] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: have you sent your kubuntu-dev application to kubuntu-devel yet?
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> amichair: well, I've not exactly "found" the fix. I just need to implement things differently
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I was waiting on you and apachelogger's feedback for my application: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/KubuntuDevApplication
[22:33] <Riddell> it seems strange to comment on an application that I'll then be judging
[22:33] <vorian> Riddell: can I use my core-dev app for the kubuntu-dev?
[22:34] <ScottK> vorian: Shouldn't take a lot of editing.
[22:34] <vorian> true
[22:34] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: hmm, fair enough
[22:35] <ScottK> vorian: Would you do me a package for kdelibs-experimental 4.3.3 so I'll have a recent upload to sponsor/base an opinion on?
[22:35] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: commenting now
[22:36] <vorian> ScottK: possibly in a few days - i'll be busy with work thru Saturday
[22:36] <vorian> I may be able to get it done tomorrow night
[22:36] <ScottK> vorian: OK.  That or something else if someone gets to that first.
[22:36] <vorian> fair enough ScottK, thanks :)
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks :D
[22:40] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: I can't believe I did that
[22:44] <amichair> JontheEchidna: do u prefer to discuss things, or should I go ahead and change?
[22:44]  * ScottK runs off to deal with kids ....
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> amichair: if I have any questions I'll probably ask when I review the patches
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> though I wouldn't mind knowing what you're fixing :P
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> Does anybody have insight on how to send along local variables to a slot in an signal/slot connection?
[22:48] <amichair> well, I'll try to replace the parser with a kde one, or else fix it. some rfc822 bugs: folding isn't done right, splitting line around ": " is wrong (whitespace not guaranteed or can be more than one char), header value can contain ":" too, first line starting with space should be error (but is ignored), continuation line containing a ":" is treated like a new header... to name a few :-)
[22:49] <amichair> JontheEchidna: also I'd move parsing to a separate utility method, same for the timestamp parsing code
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> like a calculateTimestamp() function?
[22:50] <amichair> JontheEchidna: parser doesn't have to be class member (has no state), nor created anew each show()
[22:50] <amichair> yep
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> All of these sound like good ideas, go wild. :)
[22:50] <amichair> and a file-to-map one too
[22:50] <amichair> separate from the actual processing (checking for specific headers)
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> I am not a too-terribly experienced C++ coder
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> HookEvent, HookParser and HookGui are the results of leaving me alone with an rfc822 file and the specification :P
[22:51] <amichair> in general it's good to split up long methods, and to extract well defined sub-functionality into separate methods
[22:52] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well I just happened to implement an smtp server as well as an http server, so I have those pitfalls fresh in mind :-)
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> neat
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> That was my first flat-file config parer ever
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> perhaps it shows?
[22:53] <amichair> it's not that I didn't fall for them the first time too ;-)
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> So how feasible is a KMime port looking?
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> I wouldn't bother fixing my code if we can use KMime or something similar in time for 10.04
[22:56] <amichair> well unfortunately they didn't entirely separate a headers class from the rest
[22:56] <amichair> but I think we can just use this: http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdepimlibs-apidocs/kmime/html/namespaceKMime.html#a1e8082dd1eb67f81dd1c62a8f34454d7
[22:58] <amichair> too bad there's no link to the source there :-/
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> looks promising
[23:00] <amichair> it'll suffice as long as we don't have to iterate over the lines, but only search for specific ones
[23:00] <amichair> it's quite strange, how they (dis)organized this header-related functionality
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> It would also be nice if we could make 1 KNotification per upgrade hook and forego the dialog entirely, but I'm unsure on how to implement that.
[23:02] <amichair> u mean have a separate notification for each, with a separate 'details' dialog?
[23:02] <JontheEchidna> you'd replace the "details" button with "run hook command"
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> so no dialog would be needed at all
[23:03] <amichair> I'm trying to think if that would be more convenient or less so... like after a full upgrade, having 20 popups to go through
[23:03] <amichair> (potentially)
[23:04] <amichair> a single dialog does make sense...
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> hmm, 20 popups would be inconvenient
[23:04] <nixternal> what about people who disable notifications too? :) like me
[23:04] <amichair> on the other hand you lose the quick glimpse of what package it's about if there were separate popups with name in the title
[23:04] <nixternal> though, my shell lets me know when I have updates anyways
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> plus the page system for kpagedialog is super easy for iterations :D
[23:05] <amichair> maybe we can leave it as it is, but have the notification text show the package names?
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> KNotification doesn't really have any sensibilities regarding the amount of text you give it
[23:06] <amichair> I saw at a glimpse u can set a widget in it, so it looked like u can put there anything u want... but didni't look into it
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> if you had too many packages it would either make a super-tall notification or just have it display under the notification itself
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> e.g. the text that doesn't fit would display under the notification, and over any notifications lower in the stack (if more than one are present)
[23:07] <amichair> if it's too much, u can always show a fixed limit followed by "... and x more packages" :-)
[23:08] <amichair> but that's just a 'nice to have' feature. I say let's leave it as is for now.
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that'd probably be best
[23:10] <JontheEchidna> I give up on HookGui, feel free to poke around there too
[23:11] <amichair> ok, I stopped working on software-props until someone reviews/merges it, but you're quite a bit more responsive so I can do this in the meanwhile :-)
[23:24] <NCommander> Riddell, when's the next kubuntu-dev meeting planned? (I'm on vacation for the next two weeks but I'd like to apply)
[23:25] <Riddell> NCommander: there's no meetings planned, we just meeting when there's an application
[23:25] <NCommander> Riddell, then I'll apply when I return
[23:25] <NCommander> after i talk to my sponsors of course :-)
[23:26] <Riddell> and fix qt4-x11 compiling on arm? :)
[23:26] <Riddell> hmm, kdelibs-experimental has different package names in debian
[23:26] <NCommander> Riddell, my hardware currently broken with armel/lucid
[23:26] <NCommander> Riddell, so in effect, ENOARMHARDWARE
[23:26] <NCommander> Unless I abuse the Canonical porter box
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: would it be worth the merge if it's going away in 4.4?
[23:26] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's a good point
[23:27] <Riddell> wait until tomorrow and the issue goes away
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: any news on the 4.3.4/4.3.85 tagging times?
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> or rather, was it decided whether or not they'll be simultaneous?
[23:29] <Riddell> not heard anything
[23:29] <Riddell> so I presume they'll be tagged around the same time at least
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> -.-
[23:33] <Riddell> and I'm away next week during the day time
[23:37] <Lex79> Riddell: can you look at amarok package? seems amarok-common is gone or not built
[23:37] <Lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.1-0ubuntu2/+build/1365797
[23:37] <Riddell> Lex79: there's no amarok-common.install in bzr
[23:38] <Riddell> maybe neversfelde forgot a bzr add
[23:38] <Lex79> Riddell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/amarok-common.install
[23:39] <Riddell> bah humbug, let me checkout again
[23:40] <Riddell> oh it just hasn't compiled on i386 yet
[23:40] <Riddell> -common is arch all so it'll only compile on i386
[23:41] <Riddell> nothing to do but wait
[23:41] <Lex79> ah ok :)