[00:01] robert_ancell, how is your scanner app coming along? [00:02] rickspencer3, good, I spent monday's swap day adding multi page supprot [00:03] oooh [00:03] so are you think replacing xsane in Lucid? [00:03] that is the plan :) [00:03] at least try it in the alphas and see what the feedback is [00:04] hopefully get some user testing done if the design team has the time for it... [00:04] rickspencer3: hi, I've been pinged about reenabling flat volumes for 10.04. What are your thoughts? [00:04] dtchen, I need to educate myself before I offer an opinion [00:05] apparantly the feedback from users about that was not so good, thus the disabling [00:05] rickspencer3: yes, confusion and all, but upstream PA is convinced that the misperception can be overcome by reading [00:06] reading? [00:06] you mean users reading documentation? [00:06] yes [00:06] uh [00:06] has anyone ever watched a user use a computer? [00:06] I mean no disrespect to upstream or to users ... [00:06] but in my experience, users do not read [00:07] they want to learn by doing, and if they can't learn something by using it, they consider it "crap" [00:07] dtchen, what is your opinion, if you don't mind me asking? [00:07] yes, sadly that part is pretty obvious given the amount of heat I've received across the blogosphere. Mostly FUD, but heat nonetheless. === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away [00:08] rickspencer3: personally it's useful but really relies on a perfect convergence of good (hardware|drivers) [00:08] rickspencer3: slomo pinged me in here about it; I'd like to get his opinion about it, too [00:10] dtchen, pulseaudio is working quite well for me in Karmic [00:10] you've been lucky :-) [00:11] heh [00:11] dtchen, btw, don't worry about haters on the Internet [00:12] I sure take plenty of heat from them, I can't help noticing how many people *don't* actually contribute [00:12] but feel they know an aweful lot about delivering a distro [00:12] ;) [00:14] oh certainly. It just ends up feeding back into upstream's misperceptions, although Luke and I have been pushing back a lot harder these days. [00:14] good [00:15] in any case, if flat volumes requires a perfect alignment of hardware and drivers, and you don't see that happening, I don't see how we can commit to shipping it [00:15] oth, if we want to turn it on for a while soonish and see what feedback we get, this would be the right time in the cycle to discuss that [00:17] I agree 100% with users not bothering to read documentation. [00:24] hi all, I'm moments away from logging off until next Monday === Richie is now known as WelshDragon [00:24] TheMuso, robert_ancell feel free to call if something comes up, probably wont' be online much [00:25] rickspencer3, have a good time off! [00:25] robert_ancell, thanks, it's much needed! [00:26] * rickspencer3 will look for new scanner tool on Monday [00:26] (only half joking) [00:26] robert_ancell, it occurs to me that time for expense reports is next week, good chance to get lots of canonical folks o try your scanner tool [00:27] rickspencer3, good idea === eeejay_away is now known as eeejay === jono_ is now known as jono [07:15] Good morning [07:16] Hello pitti [07:16] bonjour [08:33] morning [08:33] morning huats [08:34] pitti: do you have any pointers on your straciatella session work (for guest session, I guess)? I want to work on the desktop UNE session [08:35] didrocks: guest and stracciatalla are quite different concepts; for UNE you probably want to look at the stracciatella one [08:35] didrocks: pointers> not really, except for the source package itself; it should be quite obvious, though [08:35] it's by and large a .desktop file [08:36] pitti: ok, I'm looking at the source package right now. Very similar to what I had in mind [08:36] and a new session script which wraps gnome-session with an env var [08:36] does UNE use gnome-session as well? [08:37] or has its own session program? [08:37] lalala [08:37] pitti: not sure. At first glance, it should use gnome-session but I need to confirm first (building a VM right now) [08:37] if g-s, we probably need to change gnome-session package itself and make its .desktop files test the session type [08:37] hey vuntz! [08:37] bonjour vuntz, comment vas-tu? [08:37] pitti: ok [08:38] pitti: long hacking night, with some satisfying code in the end :-) [08:38] good! [08:38] gnome-panel? :) [08:38] erm, I meant, "tres bien!" [08:38] pitti: what do you mean with "make its .desktop files test the session type" ? [08:38] didrocks: nah, some opensuse stuff [08:39] vuntz: like, don't start a panel or nautilus in a netbook session [08:39] those are started by g-s from gconf keys right now, right? [08:39] ah, it's just a matter of having other desktop files providing Panel and whatever nautilus uses [08:39] and some others are autostart .desktop files [08:39] X-GNOME-Provides=filemanager [08:40] so just drop somewhere a .desktop file with X-GNOME-Provides=filemanager;panel; and voilà! [08:40] (as long as the .desktop file is in a directory with a higher priority than /usr/share/applications) [08:41] * didrocks gives a try and will ping pitti and vuntz when needed :) [08:41] yay [09:11] hi.. why is the winbind package not installed by default? [09:12] there is a bug filed for that , any specific reasons? [10:03] * mac_v wonders if everyone is still on US time ;) [10:04] US people probably [10:04] well, it's not really necessary to have by default [10:04] hello pitti [10:04] * pitti waves to seb128 [10:04] pitti, is seahorse-agent working for you in lucid? [10:05] yes, apparently [10:05] ok [10:05] weird [10:05] well, I didn't reboot/restart after today's dist-upgrade yet [10:06] it's not working since uds there [10:06] I get a pinentry dialog [10:06] ie [10:06] env | grep GPG -> gpg-agent [10:06] not seahorse [10:06] apparnetly you have gnupg2 installed? [10:06] and the thing doesn't keep the token for my session [10:07] but for half an hour or something [10:07] indeed [10:08] it was installed in karmic too [10:27] seb128: could you translate > Bug 487980 , Bug 487986 ... or comment on the bug asking the reporter to edit the bug in english... I'm not sure If i reply in english he/she would understand :) [10:27] Launchpad bug 487980 in hundredpapercuts "Ubuntu 9.10 KK: Interfaz demasiado grande..." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487980 [10:27] Launchpad bug 487986 in hundredpapercuts "Ubuntu 9.10 KK: Emulador de Nintendo presenta fallas en sonido" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487986 [10:28] mac_v, it's not a language that I speak... [10:28] seb128: oh.. it thought that was french... ah , nvm ;) [10:29] mac_v, no it's not ;-) [10:30] lol... my french has *not* deteriorated ... i thought i had forgotten so much i couldnt understand a word ;p [10:35] pitti, do we still need to have user stories, etc in specs? [10:35] seb128: I don't care about them for most specs, where the rationale is obvious [10:35] ok thanks [10:35] like, desktop startup speed> forget it [10:36] I hate writing those when the purpose is clear [10:36] thanks [10:36] seb128: I am still interested in them for e. g. a rhythmbox -> banshee switch [10:36] because there it matters for justification [10:36] right [11:07] pitti, doh, sorry for the user stories question before [11:08] ? [11:08] I'm just reading your email now and you were quicker than me again ;-) [11:08] hah [11:08] * pitti changes his performance review to "answers questions before seb128 can raise them" [11:09] ;-) [11:09] * seb128 hugs pitti [11:41] pitti, spec ready for review = review or pending approval? [11:41] either [11:41] the "definition" for the blueprint [11:41] ok, I set it to review [11:42] pitti, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gnome-geoclue on your plate, I've drafted it for records but it's off map already for lucid... [11:42] desrt played with geoclue at uds and it's not ready [11:42] ok, thanks; I'll put it off the lucid list then [11:42] pitti, thanks [11:44] pitti, should I bother drafting the gnome3 one? it has been a discussion about GNOME changes coming this cycle and what we do for those [11:44] pitti, ie it's "informational" [11:45] I can write the record in the whiteboard but I don't fancy writing a wiki page for nothing [11:45] seb128: are there any work items for us in this cycle? [11:45] no [11:45] don't bother then [11:45] it's decisions on versions we will use [11:45] that sounds like work items :) [11:45] and some note about where we need to be careful [11:45] package version foo: [11:45] but still doesn't require a wiki page [11:46] package GNOME 2.30 for everything but... [11:46] so having just a list of things to watch out for/do seems sufficient [11:46] ok thanks [11:46] I will just use the whiteboard for this one [11:46] in general, keep it as simple as possible :) [11:46] I like that ;-) [12:13] TheMuso: dtchen: where is the pulse packaging branch located? [12:14] the core-dev one seems to be out of date? [12:21] didrocks, there? [12:25] pitti, about https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-compiz-effects [12:25] pitti, do we need a real blueprint wiki, or is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lucid/CompizDefaults good enough? [12:28] seb128: fine for me, but it's not pointing out what to do for lucid; these would need to become work items (which we need anyway) [12:28] so, that plus WIs -> good [12:28] pitti, I've added the wis to the whiteboard already ;-) [12:30] hm, what are djsiegels's settings? [12:31] pitti, the bzr just before in the whiteboard [12:31] I see [12:31] it's basically a collection of gconf settings [12:31] can I assign that spec to you? [12:32] sure [12:32] approved then [12:32] seb128: btw, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps is ready for review, too :) [12:32] pitti, thanks [12:51] seb128: here now :) === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:52] didrocks, do you want to be drafter for une session? [12:52] I saw you started on the wikipage [12:52] I'm drafter on the blueprint now but I'm happy to change that to you [12:53] seb128: I can do it if you want as I'll certainly implement it [12:53] should be quickly done [12:53] didrocks, thanks [12:54] y/w [12:54] didrocks, not sure how busy you will be in the next weeks, should somebody take over your merges for lucid? [12:54] ie I was looking at clutter-1.0 yeasterday [12:54] should be easy, but it would be nice to send your change to the bts [12:55] seb128: yeah, I prefer to focus on UNE session first if you don't mind and I'll have not so much time next week [12:55] ok [12:55] thanks :) [12:59] seb128: I still can do those on universe, but for main/desktop set, as I don't still don't have any access, waiting for cjwaston's answer, it's more a waste of time to ask you to sponsor them, that's why I think it's better not waiting for me :) [13:00] didrocks, sponsoring is easy nowadays, I only debsign and upload for oyu [13:00] you [13:00] but if you are busy I can handle those no worry [13:01] seb128: I'll ping you if I have some time to do it. The only one you can sponsor is vino as it was my testcase for upload right yesterday [13:01] I didn't sponsor it on purpose, keeping it as a testcase [13:02] ok :) [13:05] TheMuso: there? [13:15] seb128: is there something like gconftool --dump --only-if-different-from-schema-default? [13:15] mvo, not that I know about no [13:16] hm, ok. I check what I can do with python [13:17] mvo, trying to backup compiz settings? [13:17] mvo, reading .gconf/apps/something is sort of doing that [13:18] seb128: yes, well, sort-of. first trying to get a diff from the ones we currently use compared to the ones that djsiegel has [13:20] mvo, gconftool-2 --config-source=xml:readonly:/home/mvo/.gconf --dump /apps/compiz [13:20] mvo, gconftool-2 --config-source=xml:readonly:/home/mvo/.gconf --dump /apps/compiz, try that one [13:20] seb128: cool, will do [13:22] mvo, well, that will read user changes [13:22] so that might not do the "if user_value != default_value" [13:23] but that's the best idea I've right now [13:23] yeah, it gives me too much. I try some gconf python now [13:24] pitti: I've replied to your questions in the proprietary drivers spec. Feel free to move my answers to another place if you find their position to be confusing [13:37] tseliot: thanks [13:38] np [13:38] mvo: if backing up your compiz profile is the only thing you are looking for , you could do it , using ccsm [13:39] she [13:41] didrocks: oh, cool: [13:41] Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid [13:41] the "lucid" one was missing yesterday [13:41] does it work now? [13:59] chrisccoulson, do you fancy try upload rights? [13:59] should be working now, not sure if you have anything to upload though [14:00] is archive reorganization scheduled for this cycle? [14:01] seb128 - i can try it, but i need to find something to upload first [14:01] chrisccoulson, don't bother if you don't have anything pending, next time you have something [14:03] chrisccoulson, bug #487224 maybe [14:03] Launchpad bug 487224 in gnome-power-manager "Depends on notification-daemon but should Recommends instead" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487224 [14:03] seb128 - yeah, i can try that [14:04] i really need to start doing some merges tonight really === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:15] seb128 - my g-p-m upload was accepted [14:16] pitti, I guess what you are interested in for startup time is work items, right? [14:16] chrisccoulson, rock on! [14:16] \o/ [14:18] chrisccoulson: yay!! [14:18] chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine: you can upload [14:18] seb128: sure [14:18] and Robert, too [14:18] pitti, ok, ready to review for you then [14:18] seb128: did you sync vala already? also, why is it in main? is something in main depending on it already or just because it's nice to have? :) [14:19] pitti, yes, he's not around though, I will tell him tonight when he joins [14:19] seb128: I didn't take a look at the foundations wiki page yet; it has some desktop-ish bits, too, right? [14:19] slomo, not yet, will do that now, it's not in main but there was some mir because things want to build-dep on it [14:19] seb128, cool, thx! [14:19] slomo: it's not? [14:19] there's an approved MIR for it, but it won't get promoted until something actually pulls it in [14:19] on that note, I played with vala on the flight back home [14:20] quite nice, although horribly underdocumented [14:20] I like it [14:20] pitti, cool [14:20] pitti, fundation, I captured what was on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/Lucid/Desktop [14:20] pitti, I didn't look at the X part though [14:20] i gotta finish these specs so i can start writing something real [14:20] pitti, should I? === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew [14:21] pitti: oh it's not, right... i thought someone yesterday said it was in main :) [14:21] slomo, I said the security team made the testsuite fail a requirement for main [14:21] so we are proactive there ;-) [14:21] seb128: if there's something for us to do Xorg-wise, we should have WIs, yes [14:22] pitti, ok, I will try to figure that's not something we discussed during the session at uds [14:22] seb128: oh, ok :) [14:27] slomo - i did the MIR for vala when tracker started using it, and i was packaging tracker from GIT. this was before i realised that the distributed tarballs all have the vala code compiled anyway [14:30] speaking about mir, does anybody fancy doing some of those? [14:30] we need some new libraries for gvfs [14:30] libiphone for example [14:31] pitti, ok, captured xorg wis for desktop speed and sent it your way now [14:34] and upload fu announced to -desktop@ [14:34] seb128: you rock, thanks [14:34] pitti, you rock too, thanks ;-) [14:34] * seb128 hugs pitti === korn_ is now known as c_korn [14:46] sabotage! [14:46] somebody cleaned the desktop-lucid-default-apps gobby document... [14:48] oh, does that mean the spec is cancelled? :-) [14:50] pitti, is that a lame try to sneak away from this one? ;-) [14:50] i guess that means we ship gimp :) [14:50] pitti, approved btw [14:50] \o/ [14:50] * seb128 done with first round of drafting [14:51] * pitti bids farewell to gimp, chess, and tetravex [14:51] time to update the mini 10 to lucid and start bootcharting [14:51] and do some packaging work [14:51] seb128: yay [14:51] have fun seb128! [14:51] I will ;-) [14:51] seb128: try removing the pulse xsession.d and upgrade to mvo's new compiz [14:51] * kenvandine wants a mini 10, but will wait and see what arm devices come :) [14:51] I'm eager to try how much speedup the compiz do [14:51] pitti, right, will do [14:52] tired of using the portuguese keyboard on my classmate [14:52] very hard to use vi :) [14:52] kenvandine: what keeps you from switching to US? [14:52] seb128: its ftbfs because of some kde4 issues :/ [14:52] the keyboard? i can't find one [14:53] i use the right layout [14:53] but the keys are a bit funky [14:53] if i used it everyday i would get used to it, but i only use it when i travel [14:54] mvo, not cool [14:54] it only bothers me in vim, but i use vim allot [14:54] try emacs? [14:54] * seb128 runs [14:54] bah! [14:54] i bet that would suck just as much on this keyboard :) [14:55] * kenvandine <3 vim [14:55] seb128, does your mini 10 have ssd? [14:55] yes [14:55] cool === rodrigo_1 is now known as rodrigo_ [15:54] bah, almost 60meg to install bootchart... [15:54] seb128: pybootchartgui FTW [15:54] avoids the java stuff [15:54] and works just as nicely [15:54] Keybuk, ^ which one do you use? [15:54] bootchart-java :) [15:55] though it doesn't work in lucid [15:55] so I may actually switch to finally using (and fixing up) the python one [15:55] Keybuk, is pybootchartgui buggy? [15:55] hum [15:55] worded differently I don't care about what is running I want something I can use to bootchart lucid desktop and start boot speed work [15:56] less to download is better if the python one works [15:58] yeah [15:58] settle on the python one [15:59] I have used nothing else in the past half year, and Keybuk didn't harass me for sending bad charts ... yet [15:59] I'm going to use that on the daily bootcharts I think [15:59] for a while, it gave ugly output [15:59] but I fixed that [15:59] and never got around to switching myself ;) [15:59] heh [15:59] ok thanks [15:59] much faster to get indeed ;-) [16:04] hum [16:04] doesn't work out of the box on karmic? [16:04] I rebooted and nothing in /var/log/bootchart [16:05] it's there now [16:05] it was probably processing datas === bjf is now known as bjf-afk [16:22] mvo: ooh, arch-build gone from update-notifier \o/ [16:22] * pitti hugs bzr-bd [16:23] pitti: yeah, pretty much gone from all stuff since some time, bzr bd ftw! [16:25] mvo: what causes autoreconf to be called now? [16:26] its not done automatically anymore iirc [16:27] so how does bzr bd -S work then? [16:30] mvo, alter! how do I use an usb stick as a source for update? [16:30] I did apt-cdrom add it [16:30] but it doesn't find packages on it [16:30] pitti: eh, sorry. bzr-builddeb/default.conf has "pre-build = autogen.sh" [16:30] it's a current lucid iso writen on the key [16:31] seb128: just copy the debs to /var/cache/apt/archives [16:31] hum [16:31] I can't use the key as a cdrom? [16:32] seb128: that should work too, its just a bit tricky, easiest is probably to just make /cdrom point to it [16:32] so edit fstab, point /cdrom to the stick apt-cdrom add [16:34] I did apt-cdrom add -d mountpoint === bratsche_ is now known as bratsche [16:36] hum [16:36] there is not a lot of deb on this image [16:37] mvo, how does the "dist-upgrade from cd" magic works? [16:37] everything is in the casper image no? [16:38] seb128: is this a regular cd? then it won't :/ only alternate or dvd iamges [16:38] oh ok [16:39] I though we had prompt for "new ubuntu version detected do you want to upgrade" for a while [16:39] I used to get those [16:39] nevermind then [16:39] I will just try a lucid install [16:44] seb128: hrm, odd. I can not reproduce the compiz build failure in a clean chroot === manny__ is now known as mannyv [17:16] mpt:hi [17:16] Hi and471! [17:16] mpt: thanks for mentioning me at the software-center presentation, I watched it the other day :-) [17:16] ah, you're welcome [17:16] mpt: hehe it was quite a suprise to have my name suddenly pop-up on screen :-) [17:17] mpt: I have a question about the application details view [17:17] mpt, at the moment we display a throbber until the image is loaded [17:17] mpt, is this neccessary, or can we have the image just fade in [17:17] mpt, I think it looks a bit better [17:18] and471, without seeing it, my inclination would be to keep the throbber. But do you have a throbberless demo branch on LP I could try? [17:18] mpt: not yet [17:19] mpt: I was just doing some work on making the throbber we use, be the one from the gtk theme [17:19] ah, cool [17:19] mpt: I have done this for all throbbers except for this one, and I wanted to check I needed to do the work :-) [17:20] mpt: would a video of it suffice? [17:20] and471, I think pushing a branch would be just as easy, and more thoroughly testable, than a video [17:21] mpt: okay [17:21] mpt: it just a bit of a hacky remove of the throbber atm, that is why :-) [17:24] mpt, here is the branch (may have to wait for it to update) https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-center/appdetails-experiments [17:31] Has anyone experience with an jaunty-karmic upgrade a system which is configured in an Active Directory environment? [17:34] thanks and471 -- I need to try that with a really slow Internet connection [17:34] mvo, what was that trick you used to make screenshots load slowly? [17:35] Keybuk, your uds bootchart was on the mini10? [17:35] yes [17:35] weird [17:35] mines are quite different [17:35] copying those online, one sec [17:37] Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart [17:38] your lucid one looks like mine [17:38] except you have sreadhead not ureadahead [17:38] (which explains the extra few seconds faster mine is ) [17:38] they just 403d [17:39] ok [17:40] I can't see the charts now :( [17:40] but if you add the ubuntu-boot PPA for karmic, you get ureadahead too [17:40] I include that in my charts because it's going to be uploaded ANY DAY NOW [17:41] Keybuk, ok thanks [17:41] I won't bother about karmic [17:41] err [17:41] just keep that box on lucid uptodate and measure weekly progress [17:41] I mean for lucid [17:42] right, my comment was about the ubuntu-boot ppa [17:42] I need to upload the separated out libnih to lucid [17:42] but the lucid valgrind is a *lot* pickier [17:42] so I need to update my suppressions file for my tests to pass [17:42] yeah, I put ureadahead in ubuntu-boot ppa for lucid too - until I upload it to lucid proper [17:43] Keybuk, at what point do you consider the box loaded? [17:43] when both the CPU and I/O charts fall flat [17:43] after the gnome-panel colored bar at ~26s? [17:43] I've got a bit of Python that works it out from the .tgz [17:43] since I ripped half the code out of pybootchartgui to make that bit of Python [17:43] I'm going to plug it back in and upload [17:44] ok, cool [17:44] yeah, 26s on yours [17:44] mpt http://superuser.com/questions/66574/how-to-throttle-bandwidth-on-a-linux-network-interface [17:45] damnit [17:45] need to backport python-support to hardy [17:51] mpt: I think there are some problems with the code (the image isn't loaded), however I could work it out [17:55] mpt: you can either use trickle or (simpler) just apply a small patch in the code that adds a sleep at the right place [17:55] and471: hey! [17:55] mvo: hi there [17:55] and471: I guess I need to merge your branch :) [17:56] mvo: if you wouldn't mind :-) [17:56] daily@zelda:~$ python /home/scott/guess-time.py 20091116/max/max-lucid-20091125-2.tgz [17:56] Total boot: 24.96 [17:56]