[01:04] <FFEMTcJ> popey: ping
[08:56] <popey> FFEMTcJ: pong
[11:04] <FFEMTcJ> popey: can I PM?
[14:00] <Daviey> \o
[14:00] <soren> o/
[14:00] <ScottK> Oh, right.
[14:00]  * ScottK can attend server team meetings again.
[14:00] <ScottK> \o
[14:01] <ttx> o/
[14:01] <Daviey> woot.
[14:01]  * mathiaz waves
[14:02] <chuck_> geez its early for a meeting
[14:02] <mdz> good morning
[14:02] <mdz> #startmeeting
[14:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is mdz.
[14:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:02] <mdz> kirkland, smoser, ping
[14:04] <mdz> Dustin said he would be here
[14:04] <mdz> I think smoser may be on holiday
[14:05]  * nijaba waves
[14:05] <mdz> let's get started
[14:05] <mdz> [topic] Review ACTION points from previous meeting (ttx)
[14:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting (ttx)
[14:05]  * ttx scrambles the list
[14:05] <ttx> kirkland to add a recipe covering virsh to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/VirtManager: Done
[14:05] <mdz> I wasn't able to attend the previous meeting
[14:06] <ttx> hm
[14:06]  * ttx tries again
[14:06] <ttx> ACTION: nurmi to help investigate/validate/fix bugs 455625, 460085 and 461156
[14:06] <ttx> nurmi is not around
[14:06] <ttx> I didn't have time to check progress on those bugs yet
[14:06] <mdz> 455625 has been marked invalid upstream
[14:07] <mdz> 461156 is Fix Committed upstream
[14:07] <mdz> 460085 is Fix Committed in Ubuntu
[14:07] <ttx> 460085 still needs a fix on eucalyptus side
[14:07] <mdz> so it looks like they have all been dealt with upstream
[14:07] <mdz> hmm, ok
[14:07] <mdz> I didn't look at that one
[14:08] <ttx> I'll look into that last one before tomorrow
[14:08]  * stgraber waves
[14:08] <jmdault> o/
[14:08] <ttx> to be sure to communicate to Eucalyptus anything we might be missing.
[14:08] <ttx> [ACTION] ttx to review status of bugs  455625, 460085 and 461156 for any missing info
[14:08] <mathiaz> ttx: does that mean we're preparing another SRU for UEC in karmic?
[14:09] <ttx> beh, can't action :)
[14:09] <mdz> [ACTION] ttx to review status of bugs  455625, 460085 and 461156 for any missing info
[14:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to review status of bugs  455625, 460085 and 461156 for any missing info
[14:09] <ttx> mathiaz: yes. The memory leak and the userdata are still on the list
[14:09] <mdz> mathiaz, we can discuss that on tomorrow's conf call
[14:09] <mdz> any other actions from last time?
[14:09] <ttx> yes
[14:09] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to compile a list of easy merges for publication
[14:10] <mathiaz> mdz: I'm almost done on generating the list of easy merges for publication
[14:10] <mathiaz> I've finally figured out how to do that with bzr and package branches
[14:10] <mdz> [action]  mathiaz to compile a list of easy merges for publication
[14:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:   mathiaz to compile a list of easy merges for publication
[14:10] <ttx> that's all.
[14:10] <mdz> ok
[14:10] <mdz> [topic] Check blueprint status and progress for the week (mdz)
[14:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Check blueprint status and progress for the week (mdz)
[14:10] <kirkland> ttx: i have covered Virsh and Virt-Manager in the documentation
[14:10] <mdz> the list I'm using for this is:
[14:10] <mdz> [link] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+specs?searchtext=server-lucid-
[14:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+specs?searchtext=server-lucid-
[14:10] <ttx> kirkland: yes, that action was already completed last meeting
[14:11] <kirkland> mdz: i'm here now
[14:11] <ttx> kirkland: bringing it up was a cut/apste error, sorry about that
[14:11] <mdz> this is not ideal, because it has some false positives (desktop and foundations blueprints)
[14:11] <mdz> but it has all of ours as well
[14:12] <mdz> if anyone knows a better way to get this out of LP, let me know
[14:13] <mdz> in my, er, spare time, I'm working on the blueprints API ;-)
[14:13] <ttx> also the assignee can be different from the drafter, so you should check https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~YOURNAMEHERE/+specs?role=drafter
[14:13] <mdz> all of the server-lucid-* blueprints on that list should be moved into Drafting status
[14:13] <mathiaz> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~YOURNAMEHERE/+specs?role=drafter&searchtext=server-lucid-
[14:13] <mathiaz> ^^ this is even better :)
[14:14] <ttx> s/check/cross-check/
[14:14] <mdz> ttx, there is some way to do that with a universal URL, /+me or something
[14:14] <ttx> right
[14:15] <mdz> mathiaz, yes
[14:15] <mdz> many of them are still New or Discussion, so please update yours
[14:16] <mdz> kirkland, I reviewed what you submitted and sent feedback
[14:16] <mdz> the others, I'm waiting for you to tell me they're ready for review
[14:16] <mdz> you can do that by setting them to Review status when you're ready
[14:16] <mdz> I've sent email explaining what I'm looking for in the completed blueprints
[14:17] <kirkland> mdz: thank you
[14:17] <kirkland> mdz: i'm fixing up now
[14:17] <mdz> all of them should be completed by the end of this week
[14:17] <ttx> smoser: o/
[14:18] <kirkland> mdz: i clearly "missed" on the user stories ... do you have a favorite blueprint that has intriguing user stories?
[14:18] <mdz> does anyone feel they have too much to finish in that time?
[14:18] <zul> not I
[14:18] <soren> Hmm..
[14:18] <soren> I think I'll manage.
[14:18] <ttx> mdz: I do, but we already discussed that.
[14:19] <mdz> kirkland, I don't have a blueprint to hand, but you can look at the stories on the requirements pages
[14:19] <mdz> I mentioned them in the email
[14:19] <kirkland> ttx: mdz: I see that I'm the drafter of UEC-testing, mathiaz is the assignee ... I didn't realize I was responsible for drafting that one until just now
[14:19] <mdz> where there is an internal requirement behind the blueprint, I've already written the user stories for you
[14:19] <mdz> as a means of capturing the requirement
[14:19] <kirkland> mdz: right, I thought i followed that closely enough;  i'll try again
[14:20] <kirkland> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-uec-testing
[14:20] <mdz> there are also loads of articles to be found with google about how to write user stories
[14:20] <mdz> kirkland, right, I believe that's because mathiaz couldn't be in the session, but you were
[14:21] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - I wasn't in the session dealing with UEC testing
[14:21] <mdz> if you can't get it done, now is the time to mention it, because we could find someone else who was there
[14:21] <mdz> I know you're off the rest of the week
[14:22] <kirkland> mdz: i was planning on fixing up the 2 I did write, writing up my year-end-review results, and enjoying the rest of my day off
[14:22] <mdz> who else was in the UEC testing session on Friday?
[14:22] <ttx> mdz: I was, I think soren was as well
[14:22] <mdz> this is on the critical path, so it still needs to be done this week
[14:22] <mdz> soren, can you take it?
[14:23] <kirkland> mdz: ttx: I'll do it
[14:23] <mdz> soren, ayt?
[14:24] <mdz> kirkland, OK, you can negotiate with soren separately if you find you need to hand it off
[14:24] <mdz> any other questions or considerations regarding blueprints?
[14:25] <mdz> otherwise, I'll expect everything to be ready for review first thing Monday morning
[14:25] <mdz> [topic] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html (mdz)
[14:25] <nijaba> mdz: should "community" blueprient be following the same process as well?
[14:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html (mdz)
[14:26] <soren> Sorry, someone was at the door..
[14:26]  * soren catches up
[14:26] <mdz> nijaba, all blueprints should follow the same process
[14:26] <nijaba> mdz: I know ScottK and maybe ivoks had a few
[14:27] <mdz> [link] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html (mdz)
[14:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html (mdz)
[14:27] <soren> Um... Yeah, I think I was in the UEC testing session. Think.
[14:27] <mdz> nothing assigned to the team at the moment
[14:28] <mdz> there are a bunch of bugs there which are still targeted to Karmic
[14:28] <mdz> looks like they're all Eucalyptus related
[14:29] <mdz> so I assume those are SRU candidates, as opposed to 9.10-targeted bugs which slipped
[14:29] <mdz> probably they should be targeted for LL as well, but I don't think it's too important
[14:29] <ScottK> What's the link to the process we're supposed to be using for spec tasks?
[14:29] <ttx> some of those aren't candidates for SRUs -- I'll clean up
[14:30] <ttx> hmm, they show up wrongly in the list... they are wontfix for karmic
[14:30] <mdz> ScottK, do you mean the work items?
[14:30] <mdz> ttx, ah, ok
[14:30] <ScottK> mdz: Yes.
[14:30] <ttx> bug 438631 and bug 455816
[14:30] <ScottK> I heard something about using bugs for burndown charts, but haven't seen specifics on how this process is supposed to work.
[14:31] <mdz> ScottK, it's working the same way as in karmic for the moment, I don't think the bugs-as-work-items bit is completed yet
[14:31] <ScottK> mdz: OK.  Thanks.
[14:31] <mdz> i.e. the work items go in the status whiteboard
[14:32] <soren> I had never heard of this until Rick Spencer demoed it at UDS. This was in widespread use in Karmic?
[14:32] <mdz> nothing else jumps out at me from the bug list
[14:32] <ttx> soren: the desktop team was using it
[14:32] <kirkland> mdz: i'm also trying to verify the eucalyptus SRU
[14:32] <soren> ttx: Ok.
[14:32] <mdz> and the mobile team has adopted it as well
[14:33] <mathiaz> soren: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto gives an overview of this process
[14:33] <mdz> mathiaz, ah, thanks, I was trying to find that link
[14:33] <kirkland> I reinstalled my UEC yesterday;  i have some strange behavior that I emailed nurmi about; i'm not ready to approve/decline the SRU package yet, though.
[14:33] <mdz> [topic] work item tracking
[14:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  work item tracking
[14:33] <kirkland> mathiaz: ^
[14:33] <mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[14:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[14:33] <soren> mathiaz: Neat, thanks.
[14:33] <mdz> any other questions about work items?
[14:34] <mathiaz> mdz: some work items can't be defined in some of my blueprints
[14:34] <mathiaz> mdz: example: write MIR for the list of agreed packages
[14:34] <mathiaz> mdz: which depends on agreeing on the list of packages first
[14:35] <mdz> mathiaz, I suggest creating work items for each of the proposed changes
[14:35] <mathiaz> mdz: that means that the list of work items will probably evolve over time
[14:35] <ttx> mathiaz: and adding it later will make it look like feature creep
[14:35] <ScottK> mathiaz: The list will evolve over time.
[14:35] <mathiaz> mdz: are we trying to get all work items defined now?
[14:35] <mdz> e.g. "discuss moving foobar to universe" would be one work item, and "move foobar to universe (if agreed)" would be a second work item
[14:35] <mdz> mathiaz, yes, as closely as we can estimate up front
[14:35] <ScottK> Last cycle on desktop stuff where I used this the tasks started out a few high level ones and got broken into more detail over time.
[14:36] <mdz> if some of them can be skipped, it's easy to skip them later, but we don't want to forget any
[14:36] <mathiaz> mdz: hm - ok. Does this mean there can be 20+ more work items in one blueprint?
[14:36] <mdz> it is possible to add them later, but usually this indicates that work was overlooked
[14:37] <mdz> mathiaz, you can add as many as you like, up to whatever the limit is for the status whiteboard
[14:37] <mdz> it's definitely >20
[14:37] <mathiaz> mdz: well - in this situation is that more investigation needs to be conducted in order to define more WI
[14:37] <mdz> mathiaz, if there are natural groupings, you could group them
[14:37] <ttx> mathiaz: I'd do 4 sets
[14:38] <mdz> e.g. discuss the package changes related to backup, then make the agreed changes for those packages
[14:38] <mdz> but it needs to be more than one work item, because even having the discussion will take more than 1-2 days
[14:38] <ttx> mathiaz: obvious, potentially harmful, etc
[14:38] <ttx> then have one WI to delimitate the sets
[14:38] <mathiaz> mdz: ok
[14:38] <ttx> and discuss / MIR for each set ?
[14:38] <mdz> we'll learn from this as we go, since this is our first time through this process
[14:39] <mdz> find out what works best, and adopt that for next time
[14:39] <ttx> mdz: ideally work items could be weigthed
[14:39] <mathiaz> ttx: well - not knowing how many packages will be considered makes it hard to define the number of set
[14:39] <mdz> the most important thing is that the list is at approximately the right level of granularity, so that we make steady progress through the list
[14:39] <mdz> it will never be perfect
[14:39] <ttx> mathiaz: it's still slightly more accurate than defining nothing.
[14:39]  * mathiaz agrees
[14:40] <ttx> that's how I did it for the java dependencies
[14:40] <mdz> ttx, if you can't think of any other way, you can split them up arbitrarily
[14:40] <ttx> last cycle
[14:40] <mdz> e.g. if something is probably 4 days work, you could do "implement foo #1", "implement foo #2", etc.
[14:40] <mdz> but we should only do that as a last resort
[14:40] <ttx> mdz: yes.
[14:41] <mdz> mathiaz, remember, it just needs to fit into a 1-2 day chunk of work
[14:41] <mdz> they don't all need to be exactly the same size
[14:41]  * mathiaz nods
[14:41] <mathiaz> I'll update the list of work items with your suggestions
[14:41] <mdz> the errors should average out
[14:41] <mdz> i.e. we're just as likely to overestimate as to underestimate, we hope :-)
[14:42] <mdz> ok, anything else on this topic?
[14:43] <mdz> [topic] Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
[14:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
[14:44] <kirkland> (whoops)
[14:44] <mathiaz> there is one bug nominated for hardy
[14:44] <mathiaz> bug 426813
[14:44] <mdz> kirkland, whoops?
[14:45] <kirkland> mdz: i was discussing the Eucalyptus SRU earlier
[14:45] <mdz> kirkland, that's OK
[14:45] <mathiaz> zul: ttx: seems like a good candidate for an SRU?
[14:45] <kirkland> mdz: I see that conversation belongs here
[14:45] <zul> mathiaz: looking
[14:45] <zul> mathiaz:yep
[14:45] <ttx> mathiaz: yes
[14:46] <zul> mathiaz: im going to start tagging them so they are easily searchable in launchpad
[14:46] <mathiaz> bug accepted for hardy
[14:46] <mathiaz> zul: well you can use LP searches
[14:46] <mathiaz> zul: or do you wanna tag the sru-potential?
[14:46] <mathiaz> zul: in which case they should just be nominated
[14:46] <zul> mathiaz: yes that what I was thinking
[14:46] <mdz> mathiaz, zul, how would that be different from a nomination?
[14:47] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2009-11-16.html
[14:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2009-11-16.html
[14:47] <mathiaz> ^^ this is last week fixed released bugs - anything worth in there?
[14:47] <mdz> mathiaz, that list looks a week old
[14:47] <mathiaz> mdz: yes - that was during UDS
[14:47] <mathiaz> mdz: we haven't processed it yet
[14:47] <zul> mdz: when its fixed in lucid then we can just close it and add a tag like "sru-potential" and talk about it during the weekly meetings
[14:48] <mathiaz> mdz: as we hadn't a meeting last week
[14:48] <mathiaz> zul: nominating them for the proper the release would do the same thing
[14:48] <mathiaz> zul: as we're reviewing the list of nominated bugs during the meeting
[14:48] <zul> mathiaz: okie dokie
[14:49] <mathiaz> ok - so anything SRU worth on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2009-11-16.html?
[14:49] <mdz> mathiaz, so we should have 2 weeks worth of bugs, no?
[14:49] <ScottK> For Universe, nxvl is working on some courier stuff that will be SRU worthy once it's resolved and there is a havp fix in work that should also qualify.  Both packages are currently very broken in Karmic.
[14:49] <mathiaz> mdz: yes - 2 weeks of bugs -> 2 lists
[14:49] <zul> mathiaz, #479955 might be
[14:49] <mdz> mathiaz, ah, ok
[14:49] <mathiaz> bug 479955
[14:50] <mathiaz> ScottK: are the bugs nominated/accepted for karmic?
[14:50] <zul> actually its already been nominated
[14:50] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think not yet, but they are both still unfixed in Lucid.
[14:50] <mathiaz> ScottK: ok - so lucid first :)
[14:51] <ScottK> For havp the patch is still being reviewed and last I heard nxvl was beating he head against the wall over courier.
[14:51] <ScottK> Yes
[14:51] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on to the second list:
[14:51] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2009-11-23.html
[14:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2009-11-23.html
[14:51] <mathiaz> anything SRU worth on this one^^?
[14:52] <zul> the ucf dbconfig-common is pretty easy to fix and probably SRUable
[14:52] <zul> bug 424653
[14:53] <zul> should be fixed for jaunty at least
[14:54] <mathiaz> zul: well - it doesn't seem too critical for jaunty now
[14:54] <mathiaz> ttx: ^?
[14:54] <mathiaz> anything SRU worth on the two lists above?
[14:54] <zul> im not exactly sure how to reproduce it though
[14:54] <ttx> mathiaz: yes, I'd say that's not important enough
[14:55] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
[14:55] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[14:55] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[14:55] <mathiaz> what the progress on these bugs?
[14:55] <mathiaz> ^^
[14:56] <mathiaz> I think I need to add how long the bug has been assigned to this table
[14:56] <mathiaz> to measure whether things get stalled (which is the goal of this list)
[14:56] <mathiaz> I don't know I can extract the date of assignement from LP though
[14:56] <zul> either in  -proposed or in -updates or waiting for users to test
[14:57] <mathiaz> zul: all of them?
[14:57] <mdz> ok, we're almost out of time, can we close the SRU topic?
[14:57] <mathiaz> which reminds me that I should add the status of the bug as well
[14:57] <mathiaz> mdz: yes
[14:57] <mdz> [topic] Meeting time
[14:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting time
[14:57] <mdz> A few people mentioned this meeting time was less than ideal for them
[14:58] <mdz> last I checked, Maria was working on finding a better time, and I asked her to work directly with you on it
[14:58] <mdz> what was the outcome?
[14:58] <mdz> (she's on holiday right now, so I can't ask her)
[14:58] <ScottK> It's way better for me since I'm generally unavailable on Tuesdays.
[14:58] <mathiaz> mdz: I haven't heard of maria on this topic
[14:59] <mdz> kirkland, I believe you were one of the people with an objection
[14:59] <mdz> there was an email thread at the end of October
[14:59] <kirkland> mdz: yes, this time is very bad for me
[14:59] <kirkland> mdz: i've spoken with maria, filled out the survey again
[14:59] <kirkland> mdz: the day of the week is fine; it's the hour that's a problem
[15:00] <kirkland> mdz: one hour later would solve my conflict
[15:01] <mdz> kirkland, please work with maria to find a better time
[15:01] <mdz> [topic] AOB
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:01] <kirkland> mdz: okay
[15:01] <ScottK> Who was working on the SpamAssassin update?
[15:01] <ScottK> This is, I think, a very important topic for Lucid and I'd like to make sure we track it.
[15:02] <mathiaz> ScottK: IIRC Daviey investigated it
[15:02] <mathiaz> ScottK: I don't know the the outcome of the session though
[15:02] <ScottK> It sounded like we'll want to update, but we need to make sure of this.
[15:03] <ScottK> mathiaz: Could we make sure this gets added to something as a work item so it doesn't get dropped.
[15:03] <mathiaz> ScottK: that should be documented in the blueprint
[15:03] <ScottK> mathiaz: What blueprint?
[15:03] <mathiaz> ScottK: and the whiteboard of the blueprint (mail-server stack?) updated
[15:03] <ScottK> I don't think we have one explicitly for this.
[15:03] <ScottK> mail-server-stack was a Karmic blueprint.
[15:04] <ScottK> The one I'm working on is about package integration.
[15:04] <mathiaz> ScottK: well - if there is work to be done in Lucid and you'd want it to be tracked, I'd suggest to file a blueprint
[15:04] <mathiaz> ScottK: and create the necessary work items in the whiteboard
[15:04] <mdz> agreed
[15:04] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think it's important, but I really don't have time to deal with it.  It's in Main.  Please assign someone to deal with it then.
[15:04] <mathiaz> ScottK: could the spamassassin be added to the mail-related blueprint you're working on?
[15:05] <ScottK> mathiaz: It could if someone is going to do the work.
[15:05] <mathiaz> ScottK: right - documenting what needs to be done will make it easier for someone to pick it up later
[15:05] <ScottK> I don't mind having it in there for tracking, but I really don't have time to develop a relationship with another upstream (and that's what I think this will take)
[15:05] <mathiaz> ScottK: defining a work item doesn't mean *you* need to do it
[15:06] <ScottK> That's fine then.
[15:06] <mdz> ok, we're over time, can we adjourn?
[15:06] <mdz> thanks, all
[15:06] <mdz> #endmeeting
[15:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:06.
[16:01]  * mvo looks around
[16:02]  * robbiew waves
[16:02] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03]  * ScottK waves.
[16:03]  * robbiew had zero time for an agenda this week....sorry :/
[16:03] <robbiew> had this whole UDS thing last week
[16:04] <robbiew> plus Canonical seems to think I need to review my employees every 6 months :P
[16:05] <robbiew> Keybuk: slangasek: around?
[16:07] <ScottK> robbiew: It'd be nice we could add libdb to the release coordination items with Debian and someone look into that.  The fewer versions we bring into the LTS the better.
[16:07] <cjwatson> Keybuk was arguing about udev on #ubuntu-devel earlier :) I think slangasek is on leave
[16:07] <robbiew> ah...right
[16:07] <lool> he is
[16:07] <robbiew> lol
[16:07] <cjwatson> we're in sync on db right now, but it wouldn't hurt to know about future planned transitions
[16:07] <ScottK> robbiew: For some value of someone != me.
[16:08] <robbiew> heh
[16:08] <Keybuk> robbiew: yup
[16:09] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lucid blueprints/specs
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid blueprints/specs
[16:10] <robbiew> we are reviewing Lucid commitments next week...so I need specs written this week
[16:10] <robbiew> otherwise I'll have to defer them for Manic Monkey
[16:10]  * robbiew bets someone will think that's the real name and blog it
[16:10] <Keybuk> Manic Minotaur!
[16:10]  * lool thinks Monkey sucks -- we already had Gibbon
[16:10] <robbiew> Mythic Minotaur
[16:10] <cjwatson> Marmoset
[16:11] <mvo> mermaid?
[16:11] <robbiew> Mammoth Mammoth
[16:11] <Keybuk> damnit, we should have had Buffalo Buffalo for B
[16:11] <lool> We should start all meetings with some brainstorm on $dist name; it's much more fun  :-)
[16:11] <robbiew> heh...
[16:12] <robbiew> we are also using burn-down charts this cycle
[16:12] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[16:12] <robbiew> which mean more work upfront for planning work items, but will make it a LOT easier to track progress
[16:12] <robbiew> and know when we are getting into trouble
[16:13] <cjwatson> I've only used it for one spec so far, but it didn't seem too onerous
[16:13] <robbiew> yeah...pretty easy
[16:13] <robbiew> I've done a few already
[16:13]  * Keybuk already had a Work Items section in his blueprints
[16:13] <Keybuk> so should be easy to copy over
[16:14]  * robbiew already copied some for you ;)
[16:14] <robbiew> I'll also be prioritizing all the work items for Lucid
[16:14] <Keybuk> though mine aren't really 1-2 days things ;)
[16:14] <robbiew> well....they could be broken down into 1-2 day things
[16:15] <robbiew> which might be useful in realizing the actual work effort
[16:15] <Keybuk> I was more meaning "Mine" to be things I have to do ;)
[16:16] <robbiew> but it's not an exact science...and the charts aren't the only thing I would use to gauge progress
[16:17] <robbiew> I'd like to have as many blueprints milestoned if possible
[16:17] <cjwatson> is an equivalent of that slide that said which milestones were for which purpose up somewhere?
[16:18] <robbiew> the iteration stuff is not that relevant for us
[16:18] <robbiew> at least in my opinion
[16:19] <robbiew> except for things the products have targeted
[16:19] <robbiew> like the server installer stuff ;)
[16:19] <robbiew> for Alpha 2
[16:19] <cjwatson> do we have a full list of those?
[16:19] <cjwatson> not that many work days from here to Alpha 2 :-/
[16:19] <lool> Of lucid foundations specs?
[16:19] <robbiew> yep...were posted to ubuntu-devel I think
[16:19] <lool> I think workitems.py will look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/?searchtext=lucid-foundations
[16:19] <cjwatson> lool: no, of things that come from product roadmaps
[16:20] <cjwatson> I hope foundations-lucid rather than lucid-foundations
[16:20] <robbiew> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l?searchtext=foundations-lucid
[16:20] <robbiew> for specs targeted to UDS Lucid
[16:20] <lool> cjwatson: It doesn't matter
[16:20] <robbiew> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+specs?searchtext=foundations-lucid
[16:20] <lool> (foundations-lucid, lucid-foundations, lucid foundations...)
[16:20] <robbiew> for specs targeted to the actual Lucid release
[16:21] <robbiew> "foundations lucid" should work fine
[16:21] <robbiew> in the searcg
[16:21] <robbiew> search
[16:21] <cjwatson> right, I mean things that we are going to get sat on for not delivering by alpha 2 because they're in a product roadmap
[16:21]  * robbiew will forward the alpha 2 deliverable emails to the team 
[16:21] <lool> cjwatson: A bunch of bps on that page have milestone == alpha-2
[16:21] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[16:21] <cjwatson> if that's a sufficient indicator, great
[16:22] <lool> (NB: workitems.py will skip over the mobile and dx specs on that list)
[16:23] <robbiew> I should point out that some of the specs we had for UDS Lucid were from karmic, so a foundations-karmic search is also suggested
[16:23] <robbiew> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l?searchtext=foundations-karmic
[16:24] <cjwatson> looks like the list I'm looking for is just UEC installation right now?
[16:24] <robbiew> fwiw, I'll be going through each UDS Lucid blueprint this week...to be sure we've deferred or targeted it
[16:24] <cjwatson> which is a surprisingly short list but ok
[16:24] <cjwatson> (looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/lucid-alpha-2)
[16:25] <robbiew> there may be a few software-center  related items as well
[16:25] <robbiew> but need mvo and mpt to prioritize that stuff first ;)
[16:25]  * mvo has this on his list
[16:25] <Keybuk> robbiew: just reviewed my specs, the work items actually all look pretty reasonable
[16:25] <Keybuk> (size wise)
[16:25] <robbiew> and we can add more if we want...or even target something to alpha 1 (though I discourage it)
[16:25] <Keybuk> if anything, they're 1-2 hours not days
[16:25] <robbiew> cool, thnx
[16:26] <Keybuk> and I've moved some milestones
[16:27] <robbiew> I think I've got a pretty good handle on our work items...but just need to defer the ones I know we can't do and prioritize the others
[16:27] <Keybuk> I moved the experience stuff up to alpha 1 :p
[16:27] <Keybuk> because I don't want it as a noose over our heads throughout the cycle
[16:27] <robbiew> don't worry about prioritizing...but feel free to defer if you know there's no way it can be done this cycle ;)
[16:27] <robbiew> heh
[16:28]  * robbiew was going to do that...but didn't want you to think I was pressuring you ;)
[16:28] <Keybuk> since it's "apply patches we already have and upload a package we already have"
[16:28] <cjwatson> I might chuck in ubiquity-auto-update since the code for that is written
[16:28] <cjwatson> might as well make our stats look better :)
[16:28]  * robbiew is all for that
[16:29] <robbiew> obviously we don't want to tackle all the easy ones first...but if the code is mostly written, throw that bad boy in early!
[16:29] <robbiew> lol
[16:30] <robbiew> okay...that's all I really have this week
[16:30] <robbiew> anyone have anything else they want to cover?
[16:30] <Keybuk> robbiew: any reason why some specs are assigned to the team rather than individuals?
[16:30] <Keybuk> which is it supposed to be?
[16:31] <robbiew> if an individual is doing all the work items...then assign to that person
[16:31] <robbiew> if multiple people involved, assign to the team
[16:31] <robbiew> the drafter should always be a person...and I consider the lead for that particular blueprint
[16:32] <Keybuk> ok
[16:32] <Keybuk> desktop-lucid-boot-experience should be assigned to DX?
[16:32] <robbiew> hmm
[16:33] <robbiew> who is the assignee now?
[16:33] <Keybuk> not sure how much overlap there is with the foundations one ;)
[16:33] <Keybuk> we are
[16:33] <Keybuk> foundations covers the X transition already
[16:33] <Keybuk> I figured desktop boot experience is once X is up
[16:33] <Keybuk> and is all about gdm/desktop fades
[16:33] <robbiew> yeah
[16:33] <robbiew> assign to dbarth
[16:34] <robbiew> and let him figure it out
[16:34] <robbiew> I don't want to assign to other teams...since they may have different methods
[16:34] <robbiew> will either be DX or Desktop..or combination of both...though i think DX should own that portion
[16:35] <Keybuk> agree
[16:35] <Keybuk> done
[16:35] <Keybuk> work items and milestones done too :)
[16:35] <robbiew> cool
[16:35]  * robbiew should probably invite gary lasker to these meetings :/
[16:35] <robbiew> but he starts with us next week
[16:36] <lool> "tremolux"
[16:36] <cjwatson> will he be entirely software center, or will we be able to snag him for the occasional other thing too?
[16:36] <robbiew> heh...that's mvo's call ;)
[16:36] <robbiew> but I suspect he can be used in other places as well
[16:36] <mvo> just software-center ;)
[16:37] <robbiew> same with barry...once he starts
[16:37] <robbiew> lol
[16:37] <mvo> I guess he also has a word in this :)
[16:37] <robbiew> I'm sure doko wants barry to himself...but that isn't realistic or fair to barry
[16:37] <mvo> lol
[16:38]  * mvo wants a bit of barry too
[16:39] <robbiew> anything else?
[16:39] <robbiew> oh...get your expenses in as soon as you can
[16:39] <Keybuk> I have some GOOD NEWS! :p
[16:39] <robbiew> heh...go for it
[16:39] <Keybuk> robbiew: can you approve the last remaining one of mine? :p
[16:40] <robbiew> I'm waiting to see if we get free registrations since we sponsor
[16:40]  * Keybuk has the daily bootcharts, kernel boot graphs, installer logs and installer bootcharts stuff working at home on both minis
[16:40] <robbiew> if so, you can get lca to refund
[16:40] <Keybuk> robbiew: ah, right
[16:40] <Keybuk> so if we were to ever get a new daily on cdimage, they'd both wake up and make pretty charts :p
[16:40] <cjwatson> Keybuk: do you have the recipe for installer bootcharts lying around? I want to start doing that in non-automated cases too
[16:41] <robbiew> and post where?
[16:41] <cjwatson> new daily> MINE MORE DISK
[16:41] <Keybuk> robbiew: they'll be on people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/
[16:41] <Keybuk> installer logs will be people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-installer/
[16:41] <Keybuk> (not rsync'd yet, but that's just a formality to finish up later)
[16:41] <cjwatson> actually, I want installer bootcharting to be a boot option at least during development, so that I don't have to customise CDs :)
[16:41] <Keybuk> cjwatson: err, I have a shell script that stuffs bootchart into the casper initramfs - and a success command that turns it into a tarball and scps it somewhere <g>
[16:42] <robbiew> lol
[16:42] <Keybuk> bootcharting installer requires some care
[16:42] <Keybuk> it's amazing how quickly you can fill /dev
[16:42] <cjwatson> actually I'd be happy with a way to turn on "boot"charting at a certain point
[16:42] <cjwatson> since I really just want to use it as a glorified process profiler
[16:42]  * robbiew is working on more minis for Keybuk...I suspect we won't hear anything this week due to the US holiday
[16:42] <cjwatson> so I guess I kind of have that already
[16:43] <Keybuk> robbiew: I can click a button on the Dell website and get some ;)
[16:44] <robbiew> yeah...but then we have to pay ;)
[16:44] <robbiew> I'd prefer free ones
[16:44] <Keybuk> hehe
[16:44] <Keybuk> free candy for all!
[16:44] <robbiew> but understand time is of the essence here
[16:44] <robbiew> if it sounds like it's going to be a long time, then we can buy them...and I'll take the free ones :P
[16:44] <Keybuk> robbiew: I'm sure rick's team want some too
[16:45] <robbiew> good point
[16:45] <robbiew> and dbarth
[16:45] <robbiew> but rick will need them the most, I suspect
[16:45] <robbiew> bah...there goes my netbook cloud :P
[16:45] <st33med> Just my two cents (sorry if I am interrupting) but bootcharts, if you guys are talking about the repository programs, would have to be modified to stop at GDM start. Otherwise, the chart becomes somewhat unintelligible
[16:46] <Keybuk> st33med: ?
[16:46] <robbiew> huh?
[16:46] <Keybuk> we don't want it stopped when gdm starts
[16:46] <Keybuk> we want the entire desktop login too
[16:46] <st33med> Oh ok
[16:46]  * st33med shuts up
[16:46] <Keybuk> our boot performance goals are to a visible desktop with no cpu or disk activity
[16:46] <Keybuk> the reason boot chart runs longer is to make *sure* that we're really finished ;-)
[16:46] <robbiew> yeah...we're not like windows ;)
[16:46] <st33med> Heh
[16:47] <ogra> note that the mobile team is about to pull bootchart into the armel live images for doing casper profiling until beta, would it make sense to use it on other arches too ?
[16:47] <robbiew> we mean to a USABLE desktop ;)
[16:47] <Keybuk> 45s just happens to be longer than all the sleeps pitti keeps putting in <g>
[16:47] <Keybuk> (to hide things from me)
[16:47] <ogra> i.e. in all default development images
[16:47] <st33med> But I have a hard time reading the charts, the characters become jumbled in some others.
[16:48] <Keybuk> st33med: that's probably your svg renderer
[16:49] <robbiew> okay...let's wrap this up!
[16:49] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:49] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
[16:50] <st33med> http://img697.imageshack.us/i/andrewlaptopkarmic20091.png/
[16:50] <mvo> thanks
[16:50] <lool> Cheers
[16:51] <st33med> And sorry if I interrupted :)
[16:51] <robbiew> st33med: no worries
[16:51] <robbiew> that's why we have the meeting publicly ;)
[16:51] <st33med> Ah
[16:51] <st33med> And not in some super secret nuclear bunker
[16:52] <st33med> That's for the plans against MS :D
[16:52] <st33med> robbiew, what team are you guys anyway?
[16:53] <robbiew> Foundations
[16:53] <robbiew> wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam
[16:54] <Keybuk> st33med: yeah, I've seen lots of renderings like that
[16:54] <Keybuk> I think that's the python one on karmic?
[16:54] <st33med> Yeah
[16:54] <Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/max-lucid-20091124-2.png
[16:55] <Keybuk> the render got a whole lot sweeter in lucid by the looks of it
[16:56] <st33med> That looks much better. I can actually tell where the text is pointing to XD
[16:57] <Keybuk> I have a cute python program that overlays lines for the interesting points
[16:57] <Keybuk> my thing to do this evening is to try and port that into pybootchartgui itself
[16:57] <Keybuk> so it'll cut the chart when it actually goes quiet
[16:57] <Keybuk> (three seconds of activity < 25%)
[16:57] <Keybuk> and draw red lines when X starts and stuff
[16:57] <st33med> That would be nice.  The logs become bloated by the end of boot sequence
[16:58] <st33med> Of course, that could only be bad if there is some startup bug in which it stalls boot for more than three seconds
[16:58] <st33med> *cough*ndiswrapper in edgy*cough*
[16:59] <Keybuk> this evening because jet lag hit me today so I spent the morning playing Assassin's Creed II instead of working <g>
[17:00]  * marjo waves
[17:00] <marjo> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <pedro_> hello folks
[17:00] <ara> hey all
[17:00] <marjo> QA Team Meeting
[17:01]  * fader_ waves.
[17:01] <sbeattie> hey
[17:01] <schwuk> hi
[17:01] <marjo> Agenda
[17:01] <marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[17:01] <marjo> # Bugday highlights -- pedro
[17:01] <marjo> #
[17:01] <marjo> Specs at http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/ (ara)
[17:02] <marjo> Welcome back from UDS Dallas
[17:02] <marjo> Thanks to everyone who participated. It was a very productive UDS for the QA Team
[17:03] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
[17:03] <sbeattie> SRU activity got subdued a bit last week due to UDS.
[17:03] <sbeattie> But activity over the past two weeks has still been pretty high.
[17:03] <sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past two weeks (since 2009-11-11)
[17:03] <sbeattie> * karmic: 26 new packages in -proposed and 47 packages pushed to -updates.
[17:03] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 8 new packages (gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10, ipsec-tools, kaffeine, linux, nut, pulseaudio, rxvt-unicode, totem) in -proposed and 8 (clamav, kvm, landscape-client, linux, pulseaudio, totem, tzdata, update-manager) packages pushed to -updates
[17:04] <sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package (ipsec-tools) in -proposed and 1 package (tzdata) pushed to -updates
[17:04] <sbeattie> * hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (sun-java5, sun-java6) and 3 packages (lilo-installer, tzdata, virtualbox-ose-modulesk) pushed to -updates
[17:04] <sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (sun-java5) and 1 package (langpack-locales) pushed to -updates
[17:04] <sbeattie> Thanks to Philip Muskovac,  Victor C., Antonio J. Garcia, Simon Jagoe, Simon Déziel, Jonathan Thomas,  Gunther Stengl, Ilya Barygin, Jamie, StepLg, Matthew Flaschen, Steve Dodier,  Bryan McLellan, Laurent Bonnaud, Evan Broder, Eladio Gálvez, Benjamin Drung, kwurzel, David Trask, madbiologist, Gergely Imreh, John Koskie, Danyi Dávid, Esteban, and others for testing SRUs in proposed over the last two weeks.
[17:04] <sbeattie> Assistance in testing SRUs is always welcome, come join us in #ubuntu-testing if you'd like to help out.
[17:05] <sbeattie> (that's all I've got for SRUs)
[17:05] <marjo> [TOPIC]  # Bugday highlights -- pedro
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:   # Bugday highlights -- pedro
[17:05] <marjo> thx Steve
[17:06] <pedro_> we don't have a scheduled bug day for the current week but....
[17:06] <pedro_> qense (from the bugsquad) proposed one for the next one
[17:07] <pedro_> the target will be translations
[17:07] <pedro_> yes, translations we'll be concentrated on the bugs of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/
[17:07] <marjo> ok pedro
[17:07] <marjo> sounds good
[17:07] <pedro_> organization is going to happen soon, so stay tuned to planet ubuntu and the mailing lists  for more news about it
[17:08] <ara> pedro_, is those bugs for wrongly translated strings? or for lang-packages?
[17:09] <pedro_> ara, the first one
[17:09] <ara> pedro_, nice
[17:09] <pedro_> otherwise we might need to go to each langpack to select bugs
[17:09] <pedro_> which might take a bit longer to do
[17:10] <pedro_> dpm suggested to go for the first target though
[17:10] <pedro_> marjo, that's all from here
[17:10] <marjo> pedro_ thx!
[17:11] <marjo> [TOPIC] Specs at http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/ (ara)
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specs at http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/ (ara)
[17:11] <ara> I have seen that some charts has been started to be generated for blueprint work items
[17:11] <ara> I would like to know how do we now which ones exactly are being included
[17:12] <ara> and how to get new items included in the chart
[17:12] <sbeattie> ara: I think bdmurray was working with pitti to get qa items included.
[17:12] <sbeattie> (I think bdmurray is on holiday today)
[17:13] <marjo> i think we can specify them to pitti
[17:13] <marjo> bdmurray and I are working with pitti
[17:13] <ara> can we get the current list?
[17:14] <marjo> ara: right now, there's only one, so get your items to me or send them to pitti directly
[17:14] <marjo> just make sure they are for lucid, though
[17:14] <ara> marjo, OK, thanks
[17:15] <ara> marjo, well, as soon as you approve mines, I will pass them to pitti
[17:15] <marjo> yes, agree
[17:15] <marjo> folks: anything else on this topic?
[17:15] <ara> marjo, OK, thanks. i was getting confused about this
[17:16] <marjo> folks: any new agenda items??
[17:17] <fader_> I'd just like to sound a distant early warning about Alpha 1
[17:17] <fader_> I know there were people asking what they could do to help test Ubuntu
[17:17] <fader_> ISO testing is a great way to make a huge difference and is quick to get started with :)
[17:17] <marjo> [TOPIC] Alpha 1 preparation
[17:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 preparation
[17:18] <marjo> fader_ thx for the reminder and early warning
[17:19] <marjo> folks: any new agenda items?
[17:19] <marjo> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
[17:19] <marjo> going once
[17:19] <marjo> going twice
[17:19] <marjo> meeting adjourned
[17:20] <marjo> thx everyone!
[17:20] <fader_> Thanks all
[17:20] <ara> thanks!
[17:20] <marjo> cya next time
[17:20] <marjo> #endmeeting
[17:20] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:20.
[17:20] <ara> happy thanksgiving day for US folks! See you on Friday!
[17:20] <pedro_> thanks all
[17:21] <marjo> ara: thx!
[18:25] <popey> FFEMTcJ: sure
[20:00]  * stgraber waves
[20:02] <highvoltage> hi! sorry just got a bit distracted while making some coffee
[20:02] <highvoltage> are we all here?
[20:03] <alkisg> \o/
[20:03] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings
[20:04] <stgraber> do we have a working link to some kind of agenda ? :)
[20:04] <highvoltage> hmm, I wasn't aware of that particular page
[20:04] <highvoltage> yes stgraber
[20:04] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[20:07] <highvoltage> As most of you have probably noticed, the Edubuntu Council Elections haven't started yet
[20:07] <highvoltage> and it might not completely run as originally planned since we only have 6 nominations
[20:08] <highvoltage> which is understandable since we're quite a small team
[20:08] <highvoltage> we're currently talking to the CC and we might end up making it a confirmation vote and have all 6 nominees form the new EC.
[20:10] <highvoltage> stgraber: did you perhaps get a chance yet to ping cj watson for the extra casper image that we'll require?
[20:10] <stgraber> nope, not yet
[20:10] <nixternal_> hola
[20:11] <stgraber> I'll have to check if we have enough space at the moment first so I don't make the DVD build to fail by doing so
[20:11] <highvoltage> hi nixternal
[20:11] <stgraber> hi nixternal
[20:11]  * highvoltage checks if there are daily builds yet
[20:11] <alkisg> That's for including an LTSP image?
[20:12] <stgraber> yep
[20:12] <highvoltage> oh there is, wow
[20:12] <stgraber> highvoltage: there's
[20:12] <stgraber> I'm receiving a build email every morning about it :)
[20:12] <highvoltage> stgraber: couldn't the alternate part be dropped already?
[20:12] <stgraber> highvoltage: depends if we want to support moodle installation or not
[20:13]  * alkisg built an ubuntu live dvd with LTSP on it, both chroot and image, at less than 1 Gb (along with many other apps). squashfs removes duplicate files and saves a lot of space...
[20:13] <stgraber> highvoltage: if yes, then we'll need to tweak the seeds for that so only the server part is included and desktop is dropped from the alternate part
[20:14] <highvoltage> hmm
[20:15] <highvoltage> I thought it would be nice to drop the d-i installer part completely, but I suppose it would be nice to be able to have an out-of-the-box moodle, etc option
[20:15] <highvoltage> stgraber: moodle is easy enough to install after the system is installed though isn't it?
[20:16] <stgraber> I think so yes
[20:16] <highvoltage> in previous releases there was an option to install a classroom server
[20:17] <highvoltage> which would basically install schooltool and moodle, etc
[20:17] <stgraber> right, that's what I was thinking of keeping as text installer
[20:18] <highvoltage> I guess there could be two options from the cd installer again, "Install Desktop or Application Server" and "Install Classroom Server"
[20:18] <highvoltage> the naming could probably tweaked to be a little bit more intuitive
[20:18] <nubae> hah... I joined ubnutu-meeting
[20:18] <nubae> where I was alone...
[20:19] <highvoltage> nubae: heh, welcome
[20:19] <nubae> then I realised, there are no nuts in ubuntu, maybe some fruitloops
[20:19] <nubae> but no nuts ;-)
[20:20] <highvoltage> hmm, where's sbalneaves
[20:20] <nubae> btw... sorrty to interject in the middle of a conversation... but has anyone had a chance to see opensuse 11.2-edu?
[20:22] <highvoltage> nubae: can you point to a release announcement / notes?
[20:22] <nubae> well, I did a blog report about it: www.nubae.com
[20:22] <nubae> truble with a pic though
[20:23] <nubae> lett me look for release note too
[20:23] <highvoltage> sbalneaves wants to handle the CD building stuff for Lucid, so I wondered if he would be interested looking into Ubiquity and how we could package something that would be run close to the end of an installation that would do most of the LTSP stuff in the target system
[20:23] <nubae> its imrpessive.... well thats an understatement...its like shockingly complete and functional
[20:24] <highvoltage> I think the earlier in the cycle we can sort out the LTSP/LiveCD stuff the more nicer things we can fit in afterwards
[20:24] <stgraber> highvoltage: sounds good, we need to have a ltsp chroot built and copied some place on the DVD, a small script written so one can start LTSP from the Live session and finally a change to ubiquity so we can choose to install LTSP or not
[20:25] <nubae> picure is working on my site now if intereted to take a look
[20:25] <nubae> its damn smooth looking
[20:26] <highvoltage> yeah I think the script to start LTSP from the CD will be quite simple compared to getting the right things in ubiquity
[20:26] <highvoltage> nubae: heh, we should add an opensuse-edu meeting just for you in the future :)
[20:26] <nubae> I'd like, if possible, to wok on some of the universe addiitions that were not possible due to lack of spae
[20:27] <nubae> highvoltage, sorry for being amember of both, but in the long run I believe it will benefit us all
[20:27] <highvoltage> nubae: that would be great, we have a basic list already if you'd like to review/expand on it
[20:27] <nubae> right...
[20:27] <highvoltage> nubae: no need to apologise!
[20:28] <nubae> would we handle them as ini packages or seeds like has been done with primary, teritiry, etc'
[20:28] <highvoltage> nubae: they could just be slotted into the current metapackages, tasks, etc, since we don't really have to distinguish between main and universe anymore
[20:29] <nubae> and the other area I'd like to focus on is artwork.. both icons, wallpapaers (I have 4 ready themed ones already that some of u have seen)
[20:29] <nubae> but all in all, I would love  a complete visual rep of what edubuntu is
[20:29] <highvoltage> well we do since things in main can't depend on things in universe, but we can include universe packages on the DVD so the metapackages could probably all go to universe as well
[20:29] <nubae> cause thats what the public sees
[20:30] <highvoltage> nubae: I haven't seen it yet, mind posting some links to the list?
[20:30] <nubae> yes no prob.. let me see its up somewhere I know.... basd on humour children could get...
[20:31] <nubae> let me get the link
[20:31] <alkisg> How would the LTSP chroot be embedded in the CD, since it isn't part of some package? And, aren't all things inside the squashfs image copied to the target system? So, the chroot would need to be *uninstalled* when the user doesn't want LTSP (not installed when the user selects it, as that's the default action, right?)
[20:31] <highvoltage> alkisg: right, so it wouldn't include a directory for a chroot, but just the squashfs image
[20:32] <nubae> its an area we can give openuse  run for its money... their website design is not all that great and the dont really have original icon set and themes
[20:32] <highvoltage> alkisg: that would be built seperately from the livecd squashfs on the same build server, and then be included on the disc as a seperate squashfs filesystem than the casper one
[20:32] <alkisg> highvoltage: would that be *outside* of the squashfs image?
[20:32] <highvoltage> alkisg: it would indeed
[20:33] <alkisg> OK, if that's possible from a technical aspect, I don't see many problems in getting live LTSP ready for Lucid...
[20:34] <highvoltage> alkisg: yeah the canonical guys will have to make some modifications on the build servers for the extra squashfs, that may be a factor that's slightly out of our control
[20:34] <highvoltage> alkisg: but the actual livecd system shouldn't be too much of a problem
[20:34] <highvoltage> alkisg: we want to be able to install ltsp from a live system as well, that's where it gets more challenging
[20:35] <alkisg> "as well"? So the text installer will also be there?
[20:35] <highvoltage> "as well" as in, in addition to be able to run it from the livecd
[20:35] <stgraber> nope, we'd likely drop the text installer. Ubuntu alternate would still be there for text install of ltsp
[20:36] <highvoltage> there will be a text installer but only for a classrrom server if you want to run moodle, etc (possibly schooltool again when that's available again in ubuntu)
[20:37] <alkisg> I guess a mounting of the squashfs image over /opt/ltsp/i386 would suffice for the chroot to be copied to the final system, won't it?
[20:37] <highvoltage> stgraber: oh, I thought you wanted to keep the text installer for a classroom server
[20:37] <stgraber> highvoltage: yes, for classroom srever
[20:37] <stgraber> *server
[20:37] <stgraber> not LTSP or Desktop
[20:37] <highvoltage> ok, I just wanted to make sure we're in sync there :)
[20:41] <highvoltage> so for ubiquity we'd basically want some way of asking the user if they'd like LTSP installed, if they don't want it the additional packages should be removed, and if they do we need to extract/copy the ltsp data and run a few things like ltsp-update-{kernels,sshkeys}
[20:41] <highvoltage> I'm not sure how installing things like dhcpd will work on the build servers, I've run into some problems installing it in a chroot before but I'm sure that could be fixed
[20:42] <stgraber> well, it works with the text install
[20:42] <alkisg> I don't think dhcpd should be preinstalled in the live dvd
[20:42] <stgraber> so it shouldn't be that bad with the GUI install
[20:42] <stgraber> dhcpd will be preinstalled but just not running by default
[20:43] <stgraber> and in fact, ubiquity doesn't install things, it copies everything and removes some stuff
[20:43] <alkisg> Why not install ltsp-client-standalone from the DVD *only* when the user selects that he wants LTSP?
[20:44] <highvoltage> alkisg: on a livecd install, something is either installed or not, things that are not desired on the target system (usually language packs and internationalisation) are then removed at the end of the installation
[20:44] <alkisg> (i.e. as part of an ubiquity step)
[20:44] <highvoltage> alkisg: so dhcpd has to be installed on there, just not running by default
[20:44] <alkisg> OK
[20:47] <highvoltage> I'll ping the list again to update the edubuntu doodle schedule for the next few weeks so that we can plan our meetings more in advance
[20:47] <highvoltage> deciding on the next week's meeting time on a week-to-week basis is still a bit short notice for people, and it's hard to plan for people who can't make the current meeting
[20:48] <stgraber> would be great indeed
[20:49] <highvoltage> other thatn that I don't think we have any urgent meeting items to discuss
[20:49] <highvoltage> there's a lot of other things but it would be nice to have bigger meeting turnout for that
[20:49] <highvoltage> like our website and the wiki!
[20:50] <highvoltage> dholbach suggested a wiki-hug-day for edubuntu, I think that could work with some good co-ordination
[20:50] <highvoltage> but we'll have to decide what we want and set up some basic guidelines before hand so that contributors know what to do
[20:51] <highvoltage> otherwise we might end up with someone reshuffling half the wiki again :)
[20:51] <highvoltage> anything else?
[20:51] <stgraber> not on my side
[20:52] <highvoltage> ok, meeting adjourned... *BONG*
[20:52] <alkisg> Thanks :)
[20:53] <highvoltage> (we'll still be in #edubuntu afterwards if anyone is interested in joining)
[20:53] <stgraber> I guess we'll probably have our next meeting just after we know who the next EC members will be
[20:54] <stgraber> anyway, got to go, see you all later
[20:55] <nubae> darn missed half conv trying to upload images
[20:55] <nubae> anyway they'll be there soon
[20:55] <nubae> are there any ideas on iconic themes?
[20:55] <nubae> I mean... we can go realllly younh
[20:55] <nubae> we can go more hip/cool for the teens
[20:56] <nubae> or we can go more casual so that it fits audiences for unis too?
[20:56] <highvoltage> nubae: I *really* like the breathe icon theme, although it's probably not the most edubuntu-centric theme there is
[20:56] <highvoltage> nubae: anyway, let's move this to #edubuntu
[20:56] <nubae> ok, sorry to just but in
[20:56]  * alkisg would like an option for keeping the default ubuntu theme :)
[21:21] <sbalneav> here
[21:21] <sbalneav> SOrry, was in a real-life meeting