=== emma_ is now known as emma [00:26] nixternal, jjesse: I'm starting to work on the desktop doc [00:26] hmm usb mount does not work automatically anymore [00:26] I've already updated the wiki [00:26] txwikinger: I've noticed it works about 50% of the time [00:47] JontheEchidna: I've got a q regarding hookgui, just to see if I'm missing something [00:57] JontheEchidna: a few, actually... === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [01:01] amichair: ask :) [01:02] is there a difference in each if/else block in the constructor between what happens in the if and the else, other than the key name? [01:06] DarkwingDuck: the netbook.xml file looks good [01:06] thanks jjesse [01:07] there's some stuff that might need to befleshed out, but over all looks good [01:07] ScottK said there would be more changes so I'll keep an eye on the daily build [01:07] yeah [01:08] I'll start working on some of the other docs too [01:08] Since we seem to be starting from square one? [01:08] hrmm don't kow if we are indeed starting from square one [01:09] are we starting from square one nixternal? [01:09] amichair: in all cases it's just looking for a key and returning the value [01:10] JontheEchidna: so why do the if's and else's.... look so different? [01:10] Most of the new docs look quite empty... [01:10] I'll have to find the old ones then. [01:10] amichair: oh, for name and description we can possibly have localized name and description fields [01:11] so we check for the prescence of those first [01:11] JontheEchidna: nono, I mean using contains+[], as opposed to iterator, loops, checks, breaks... [01:11] oh [01:11] don't they do the exact same thing? [01:12] jjesse: lp:kubuntu-docs is pretty much empty [01:12] amichair: contains just gives me a boolean on whether it exists [01:13] oh [01:13] hmm [01:13] JontheEchidna: right, and then [] gets it [01:13] yeah, I could just do contains() to see whether I could assign it with [] [01:14] JontheEchidna: a while loop with a break at the end of the first loop is basically an if. getting an iterator and checking if it's not empty, then comparing it to the key by which it was already filtered, and then taking the value... it looks to me like it's doing the same thing [01:14] yeah [01:15] it would be much shorter and clearer to do contains and [] here too... [01:15] unless, of course, I'm missing some subtlely here... [01:15] I think I just came across the contains() function when I added the language support [01:15] and it never hit me I could do the same thing for getting the non-localized values [01:16] JontheEchidna: now about that, the wiki page says fields starting with _ should be i18nized, so where does the name-language syntax come in? [01:17] amichair: that's for the "source" hook, so to speak. The final installed version will not have the _ in front of it, but rather be in the format of name-langcode [01:18] JontheEchidna: oh I get it, langs are expanded when creating the file rather than by the code that uses it [01:19] right, the _ just denotes that it can be translated so that gettext picks up on it [01:19] JontheEchidna: is there an advantage to this over translating dynamically as in other code? [01:20] I don't understand [01:21] it could just as well have been a simple english file, and the code processing it would call gettext or _() or whatever it's called at runtime, just like it does for resources which are hard-coded in the sources, no? [01:22] I guess [01:23] is it this way because of problems gapping translations between different apps/components (which communcate via the files)? [01:23] dunno [01:23] ok [01:25] one other thought: instead of QMap< QString, QMap< QString, QString > > and language checking and standalone parser etc, how about having a Hook class? [01:25] it can take the filename in the constructor, do it's parsing/translating internally, and provide a cleaner external interface [01:26] so the gui just treats it as an opaque data structure, regardless of the dirty details inside... [01:26] That could work [01:26] But it seems all I've ever done with hook support is shove dirty details into their own little world :P [01:27] lol [01:27] This would be good in that it would remove the need for un-parsing [01:27] the hook class could provide methods for each of the fields [01:28] yep, and handle language-checking automatically, etc [01:28] then all we have to do is QLabel->setText(m_ourHook->name()); [01:28] and it would be easier to fix the single m_command/m_terminal for multiple hooks bug too :-) [01:28] yeah, that's the idea [01:29] encapsulate the implementation details and duplicate functionality (e.g. those langs things) [01:30] anyway if u like the idea I can do it tomorrow [01:30] Sounds great. Thanks a bunch [01:31] * JontheEchidna afk for a bit [01:31] btw I'm not sure the kmime thing will work out, it's harder to get at a header iterator [01:32] (and I don't know how to include it in the project anyway :-) ) [01:32] I'm off to bed... c u tomorrow :-) [02:14] JontheEchidna: notifier stuff looks really good (on your blog) nice work [02:17] yes JontheEchidna good job [02:18] nixternal are we scrapping the docs totally or just tweaking what we currently have [02:19] shtylman, jjesse: Thanks. apachelogger and smarter deserve credit too [02:29] JontheEchidna: can we sync only with testing ? no unstable? [02:30] Lex79: if we need to sync with unstable we can sync with unstable. I would say that while it's preferred to sync from testing this release it's not required [02:32] ok I understand [02:35] jjesse: I don't think nixternal is around [02:36] i figure such [02:36] :) I think that fixing the current docs would be a better way to go... [02:36] me to [02:37] i keep dropping ssh connections to my netbook [02:37] no idea why [02:37] hmmm, I have not attempted that yet. [02:37] then again, I test for bugs and write documentation based on what I'm doing :D [02:38] VBox keeps freezing on the Lucid install === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [03:18] jjesse: yes, scrapping the docs totally....to tweak what we have would be just as much work, if not more [03:18] wow seems like a lot of werk [03:18] :) [03:19] it is, but I am hoping to have 90% of it complete by the end of the holidays for translations [03:19] oh [03:19] netbook is draft, and someone just did the audio topic :) [03:20] we have minions for once :p [03:20] yay i like minions [03:21] * jjesse heads out to walk the dog and go to bed [03:22] Lex79: kdepim retried. [03:22] nice, we have Dell on the Planet pimping "Chromium OS on a Mini 10v" [03:22] Yup. [03:23] I guess it works for Canonical either way. [03:23] well, it wasn't a Canonical thing to put Dell on there [03:23] Dell has an employee who just happens to be a member and added it himself... [03:23] Because Dell is an Ubuntu Member? [03:23] no [03:24] the one employee added the stuff himself...nobody said yes/no to it [03:24] there is a new thing being designed for the planet that allows manufacturers have their news on the Planet as well [03:24] Grumble. [03:24] ie. dell, system76, and such [03:25] but it is supposed to only pertain to ubuntu [03:27] I'm working on desktop next [03:27] minions? :P [03:34] booyah! http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dhillon-v10/kubuntu-docs/dhillon-v10/annotate/head:/docs/audio/C/audio.xml [03:34] that is a darn good start right there for the audio stuff...a few little fixes and that will be easy to whip into shap [03:41] ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/4:4.3.3-0ubuntu2/+build/1365534 [03:41] nixternal: Be sure to talk to maco, since she's the Kubuntu audio expert now. [03:42] Lex79: Done. [03:42] great [03:47] kdetoys is not uploaded yet, wiki merge says Quintasan has submitted for review...where no one knows :) [03:49] ScottK: audio as in playing audio, not the hardware [03:50] nixternal: I figure if i say it three times it will be true. That's two. [03:54] nixternal: I've updated taking what I'm going to be working on. [03:54] Plus, as Lucid keeps getting updated I'll be updating [04:09] hey, for .desktop translations, I am using debhelper, so I added the pkg-kde-tools shit for kde.mk...that will add the ubuntu gettext stuff to the file supposedly for translations...where the hell will those translations go? will they be part of the package or will they be a part of some silly l10n package? [04:12] Should be part of the package. [04:12] Then they'll get stripped. [04:14] you'll have to set a translation domain variable to get it all working, see any core KDE package for reference [04:15] do I have to manually add that gettext stuff then to the desktop files? [04:15] nixternal: Did you say good stuff on JontheEchidna's kubuntu-dev application yet? [04:15] oh, I should mention that this variable goes in debian/rules [04:15] can't say that I have [04:16] nixternal: Please do. It might even motivate him to help you .... ('cause I don't know this stuff either) [04:16] boost api docs are awesome [04:16] * ScottK consults is irony detector. [04:16] is/his [04:16] ScottK: the sad thing is, I did this crap for another application, actually a couple of them...and I can't remember which ones they were :) [04:17] ScottK: writing a C++ app for a client [04:17] Ah. [04:17] Make sure it works with one and only one boost version for guaranteed lifetime employment. [04:18] I don't have to worry about them breaking stuff, as it will be me maintaining their stuff for a while [04:18] until I sell the contract off of course [04:18] Nice. [04:18] I can only take this consulting stuff for so long.... [04:19] my last consulting gig I was hoping would turn into a full-time gig, but it didn't....it would have definitely caused me to stop contributing here [04:19] and it wasn't with microsoft! [04:19] is there a way to port the kubuntu-docs when finished into docs.kubuntu.org at all? [04:19] apachelogger: http://jontheechidna.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/kubuntu-notification-helper-0-4-85-0-5-beta1/#comment-1193 [04:19] DarkwingDuck: yes, 'make web' will do it all for us [04:20] wtf is up with nepomuk [04:20] Who runs kubuntu.org? Canonical? [04:21] yup [04:22] so, how hard is it to get docs.kubuntu.org put together with a Lucid release [04:22] hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha [04:22] sorry [04:22] that bad eh? [04:22] ryanakca or Riddell would be better suited for that one [04:23] we used to be at help.ubuntu.com but someone decided that kubuntu docs shouldn't be on an ubuntu domain [04:23] waaa? [04:24] someone also decided to CC-by-SA our docs, so we can't even use KDE docs, or link to them at all, so luckily we can cheat with [04:24] thank god for KIO!!! [04:25] does canonical not want to support us or, is this the mainstram guys? [04:25] *Mainstream [04:26] and by mainstream I mean ubuntu the gnome flavor... [04:26] it wasn't canonical's decision [04:26] which I find a bit odd [04:27] hmm... [04:27] jjesse: do you remember the whole thing about switching to cc-by-sa from gfdl? [04:27] also, I don't know if I'm stepping on toes but, why are we not our own team for kubuntu docs? [04:28] we don't follow their procedures, to are the bastard children... [04:28] what I would really like to do, and it is my dream, is to eventually split kubuntu-docs from the ubuntu documentation project so I^we can: a) control the layout of our shit b) not have to follow the current layout of ubuntu-docs, c) make our own decisions, I mean after all it is our docs [04:28] to=we [04:28] ROFL [04:28] haha [04:28] 20 seconds [04:28] we were thinking the same thing at the same exact time [04:28] That's what I was thinking too [04:29] who do we have to convince? [04:29] we shouldn't have to convince anybody...kubuntu-docs are ours, we maintain them...nobody else does [04:29] So, why don't we? [04:29] it is to much of a head ache for me to take on [04:30] actually, the question should be, what is stopping us? [04:30] jjesse and I tried a couple of years ago [04:30] and? [04:30] this whole idea of topic based docs came about, which is a good idea....so all we did was pull all of the parts out of our user guides into separate docs...creating the illusion we were doing topic based help [04:30] look at the ubuntu-docs bzr repo [04:31] it is a mess [04:31] I have... I gave up [04:31] haha, exactly [04:31] that's the reason I decided to clean ours up [04:31] people would be like "ya! I want to help" [04:31] then they look at the docs and then never return an email [04:31] So, actually, because we are starting fresh this woudl be the PERFECT time to do it [04:32] post LTS [04:32] post? [04:32] though, it is dangerous doing what I did for an LTS, but I feel I have a good grasp of everything right now, and there was no better time at doing it [04:32] after first of the year, if I go back to working for a company, I won't be around much [04:33] It's not that bad. between you me and jjesse and the handfull of help here and there we should have most of this done by Christmas [04:33] exactly my plans :) [04:33] So, if we get it all done, keep with the upkeep why not break away for Lucid? [04:33] Since we are starting fresh anyway? [04:34] I'm non-deployable so, I'm not going anywhere. [04:37] well, with khelpcenter the way it is, the benefit isn't all that huge...i am working with upstream on creating a newer version of khelpcenter...would like to restructure kde documentation fully as well [04:38] hopefully sometime next year, have a sprint that will deal with all of this [04:39] it is kind of nice actually for me and documentation stuff....I am also the project leader for KDE documentation (which I have done a shit job at recently)...here in/around Chicago, we have me, the Xfce/Xubuntu documentation leader, as well as the head developer of all things documentation for GNOME [04:39] we are getting together in a couple of months to figure out the best route for a cross-platform help system [04:41] I made 2 pumpkin pies for tomorrow...couldn't help it, started eating one already :) [04:42] Okay, I guess I don't understand what goes into making a new team. This is the way I see it currently. We use docbook, ubuntu-doc uses Mallard. When ever there has been a kubuntu doc done for the past few years its gone to you or jjesse from ubuntu-doc. MKE doesn't seem to mind/care about kubuntu side of the house. We are our own team in every way except officially... [04:43] Oh, and we have our own branch that ubuntu-doc doesn't really touch [04:43] we deal with the translators on our own... [04:43] I'm sorry, I'm kinda a realist :D [04:44] The Chicago mob is secrectly based around the documentation of FOSS [04:44] JontheEchidna: +1 [04:44] lol [04:45] nixternal am I just off with something? [04:45] You should make an offer the ubuntu-docs team.... cannot refuse. [04:45] * JontheEchidna whips on sunglasses [04:47] DarkwingDuck: ubuntu-doc isn't using mallard yet are they? [04:48] I thought mallard wasn't ready for the big time yet [04:48] * nixternal attempts a deb build of kubuntu-docs 10.04.0 [04:48] 50 to 1 it doesn't work [04:49] from what I gathered from email chains is that they are working very quickly to transition [04:49] ya, I don't pay attention to their stuff [04:49] ok, nepomuk is pissing me off [04:52] I was reading it off and on. [04:52] *sigh* VBox is pissing me off [04:53] qemu ftw! [04:53] if your system supports virtualization, qemu is the way to go [04:53] way less overhead that vbox [04:53] and, of course I forget to build dep on pkg-kde-tools :p [04:53] I like the video options from VBox... [04:54] or, does qemu support it? [04:54] ahh, no support for those options [04:54] remember, all screenshots at 1024x768 :) [04:54] png format [04:54] g'night [04:54] though I usually take care of all screenshots before final release [04:54] g'nite [04:55] :) yeah yeah yeah. except for the netbook... 1027x600 [04:55] *1024x600 [04:55] I was thinking of you tube vids... Kinda show off Plasma a bit [04:57] ok, I have a piece of pumpkin pie with my name written all over it [04:57] brb [04:58] :) [05:02] that pie just got its ass kicked [05:04] LOL [05:04] Anyway, back to the breaking off topic... why aren't/cant we? [05:08] for some reason the ubuntu documentation project wants to hold on to everything [05:10] So, who makes that? MDKE? [05:16] he has his fingers in it, yes [05:16] but he shouldn't be making decisions for kubuntu-docs [05:17] right now, the layout sort of works...when it is time for new and exciting changes, then I will reinvest time to look at pulling away a bit [05:18] If you need help with that let me know. [05:18] Did it build? [05:19] no, I keep breaking other things [05:19] ahh [05:19] ooh, I have a bunch of work to get it to build yet [05:19] :) Okay, I'm heading to bed. [05:20] getting up early to cook [05:27] g'nite [05:35] bed is for the WEAK and stuff [08:19] hey there [08:20] I'm about to upload this diff to kdemultimedia: [08:20] http://paste.ubuntu.com/328304/ [08:20] just before uploading I've noticed that the package seems to be managed in bzr, so I wanted to commit that debdiff to the branch [08:21] however, it seems that I'm not allowed to commit to that branch [08:21] anyone around that could commit the diff for me and upload it? or shall I just upload and someone who can will import the diff from launchpad to the branch? [08:24] siretart`: its a bit quiet here in the mornings, perks up in about an hour or 2. can try pinging Riddell or ScottK or apachelogger for example... [08:25] I guess you just did for me :-) [08:26] yup :D [08:26] apachelogger is to old to be up :D he needs is beauty case sleep away [08:26] rofl [09:31] JontheEchidna: in hookgui, is it inded that invokeTerminal will run only when the command is quoted? or should that last line be outside the if? [10:16] ghostcube: thuesday is the only day I dont have a calculus lecture, hence you will never see me learier than 10 :P [10:16] :D [10:17] siretart`: I'll commit the diff right away, thanks for the heads up :) [10:18] apachelogger: will you do the upload as well? [10:18] siretart`: can do [10:18] okay, thanks [10:30] hum hum [10:30] * apachelogger is wondering when the meeting JontheEchidna was writing about is [11:19] apachelogger: I did not expect you to be such a good showman :O reading our maling list made me laugh really hard :P [11:20] Riddell: I belive I sent kdetoys debian diff for review but I didn't receive any comments on it, here's the link in case -> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/69524/kdetoys-ver666.tar.gz [11:46] guys, is there anything i can do regarding the TIMELORD initiative? [11:47] brmassa: hug me ): [11:47] Tm_T: so be it [11:47] brmassa [] Tm_T [11:48] * Tm_T hugs brmassa back [11:48] jezz!!! :P [11:48] thank you, now I can continue with this nepomuk mess -> [11:49] Tm_T: ;-) [11:49] so... testing/developing/documenting? [11:51] making it build? [11:51] :) [11:51] Sput: nepomuk currently in trunk is disabled, it's a mess ): [11:51] hmmm, who was our "the man" when talking about translations ? [11:51] Tm_T: yeah, I've noticed [11:52] my system is half-broken currently [11:52] Sput: I have spent a full week if not more to constantly sorting out why trunk is broken [11:52] not very nice of Trueg to introduce something like this a couple hours before feature freeze :/ [11:52] Tm_T: same [11:52] Sput: I know, I've been bashing him [11:53] well, actually introducing would've been OK if it were tested [11:53] Sput: ye, shame most of the time people don't remember to mention the one who hints them about build issues and sorts or I would have got more hilights in -commits [11:53] Sput: he doesn't have enough time IIRC, and constantly forgets parts of commits etc... (: [11:54] and to be honest, he is not alone [11:54] also too many changes goes in without proper check of requirements etc [11:55] Sput: it's not fun to make sure trunk builds in Intrepid also [11:55] yeah thank $fsm I don't have to care about such things [11:57] now I know when I get my session up I won't compile anything until it's all sorted [12:16] grrrr, my mother sometimes is really wried, I'm healthy enough to vaccum my carpet but not to use the computer :O === Quintasa1|Szel is now known as Quintasan|Szel [12:16] obviously, you need a new mom [12:17] r... [12:17] Quintasan|Szel: say "good, that's the way" to your mother from me [12:18] Tm_T: :< [12:20] * Quintasan|Szel loves PuTYY [12:20] PuTTY even [12:46] Quintasan: where's your kdetoys merge? [12:55] apachelogger: thanks for the upload [12:56] siretart`: you're very welcome [13:01] Quintasan: found it, uploaded, thanks [13:01] * Riddell deletes 1000 rosetta spam e-mails === steveire_ is now known as steveire [13:10] JontheEchidna: another q, who is responsible for deleting the hooks? right now the user can run the hook command multiple times and it'll keep showing up [13:14] amichair: AFAIK they do not get delted, but blacklisted in a config [13:14] since some hooks might require each user to take action [13:14] oh [13:14] and who does the blacklisting? [13:14] though I suppose there is some difference between system hooks and user hooks [13:14] are we supposed to do it after the user selects 'do it'? [13:15] amichair: if the hooks code doesnt do it, then no one :P [13:15] amichair: pretty much so [13:15] apachelogger: yes, that's what I found :-) [13:15] actually I would say - after successfully executing the command [13:38] amichair: you're right, that if else statement is messed up [13:38] the else should be in regards to the second if [13:39] JontheEchidna: ok, fixed that [13:39] JontheEchidna: I made the change we discussed yesterday, it's lookin god [13:39] JontheEchidna: now I'm looking into further issues, like what happens when a notification occurs while the dialog is already open, or when a hook is deleted (which also pops up a notification!), etc [13:40] apachelogger: the meeting I referred to is the multimedia sprint that sandsmark was talking about [13:40] JontheEchidna: I meant on the mailing list [13:40] oh [13:41] oh [13:41] there is more [13:41] presumably there will be a meeting to process my application [13:41] apachelogger: did you see the latest DrWho? [13:41] JontheEchidna: I am signed up for the sprint already :P [13:41] cool [13:41] markey pointed it out to me [13:42] apachelogger++ [13:42] though really, as I mentioned loads of times, KDE needs a generic solution to this [13:42] rgreening: waters on mars? [13:42] not ye [13:42] t [13:42] apachelogger: btw, we still need some more people, would be nice of you could do some promotion for the event [13:42] didn't find the right mood to ... I dont want to waste that on a boring evening where I will only pay half the attention it deserves anyway :P [13:42] (any multimedia related folks will do) [13:42] markey: did you invite the bangarang dood? [13:42] the what? [13:43] bangaran [13:43] g [13:43] some new video player [13:43] never heard of that [13:43] from kde? [13:43] there have been a couple of posts on planet kde [13:43] markey: yes [13:43] well, we sent mails to the multimedia ML, promo ML, events ML.... [13:43] and about 50 more [13:43] if he hasn't seen it yet, then I dunno [13:43] markey: also dtchen might be good to have around since he is the one knowing all about them pulseaudio :) [13:43] we already have a PA developer on board [13:43] Colin Guthrie [13:44] apachelogger, amichair: I did check it out and it appears that gnome's update-notifier has a hook-delete.c file [13:44] but another one can't hurt [13:44] markey: I think dtchen is more about implementations :D [13:44] feel free to ask him [13:44] yeah, cool [13:44] ask him :) [13:44] we have plenty space in the location [13:44] dtchen: wanna come to kde multimedia sprint in may in .ch? [13:44] JontheEchidna: in that case we might as well kill it [13:45] JontheEchidna: I seem to remember that the python thingy does only blacklist though [13:45] anyhow [13:45] JontheEchidna: it would be cool if you could update the hook specification [13:45] here's the official mail for the MM-Sprint, with all information: [13:45] http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-events&m=125811990106415&w=2 [13:45] yeah, it craps all over kdeglobal each time you see a a hook :P [13:45] * apachelogger notes that all of ubuntu fails when it comes to updating implemetnation specifications [13:45] apachelogger: details? Foreign travel is kinda tough for me [13:45] dtchen: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-events&m=125811990106415&w=2 [13:46] JontheEchidna: lol [13:46] markey: do you have a gst dude on board? [13:47] Ya. The doc is insane! Oh my... [13:47] apachelogger: ^ [13:47] oh my [13:47] :) [13:47] watch it now apachelogger [13:48] there is a box that sez "A system restart is required" [13:48] Waters of Mars rocked [13:48] and there are 3 freaking buttons! [13:48] JontheEchidna: I dont wanna hear about it :P [13:48] so [13:48] apachelogger: don't think so, but would be good to have some (although we're kinda navigating towards using VLC as the main Phonon backend) [13:48] who came up with that 3 buttons idea [13:48] way too confusing [13:48] which one to press [13:48] oh dear [13:48] the VLC lead dev will attend as well [13:49] !info vlc [13:49] vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.2-1ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 1581 kB, installed size 3788 kB [13:49] libVLC, that is :) [13:49] not the player itself [13:49] !info libvlc-dev [13:49] libvlc-dev (source: vlc): development files for libvlc. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.2-1ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 68 kB, installed size 356 kB [13:50] markey: all goody [13:50]