[00:17] <sbalneav> vistro: So, what happens if you log in with the superuser account?
[00:27] <sbalneav> gotta take my son out to his music lesson.  Back on in a couple of hours.
[01:43] <oscurochu1> where can i get a list of all the applications included with the latest release?
[01:44] <sbalneav> oscurochu1: Not sure if we've got that on the site at all.
[01:44] <sbalneav> gotta go
[01:44] <sbalneav> be back on in 1/2 hour
[01:44] <oscurochu1> is there a list in the image?
[01:44] <sbalneav> the packages are all there
[01:44] <oscurochu1> ok thanks thats all
[13:14] <researcher> :)Hello
[13:15] <researcher> I did not find the Fish Applet as suggested yesterday
[13:15] <alkisg> are you on an ubuntu system now?
[13:15] <researcher> yes
[13:15] <researcher> ub untu 9.10 64 Bit AMD
[13:16] <alkisg> Right click on the bottom panel, and select to add an applet
[13:17] <researcher> please wait a while
[13:17] <researcher> did it
[13:18] <alkisg> OK, and you don't see the wanda fish applet there?
[13:18] <researcher> yes its there
[13:18] <researcher> now How do I make my photo appear here with name?
[13:19] <alkisg> http://amitksaha.blogspot.com/2008/01/wanda-gnome-fish.html
[13:19] <alkisg> """Right-Click on the GNOME Fish Applet, and go the 'Preferences' menu:"""
[13:19] <researcher> done
[13:19] <alkisg> etc etc, if you don't find it ask again...
[13:19] <researcher> yes I CAN BROWSE TO MY PHOTO FILE NOW
[13:20] <alkisg> You can even put animated pictures, if you like (and if you know how to make one)
[13:22] <researcher> thanks a lot
[13:42] <researcher> hello alkisg r u there?
[14:49] <sbalneav> Morning all
[16:56] <researcher> I have ubuntu installed in english and installed ubuntu-edu-preschool using apt-get command.Can I work edubuntu now in other language?
[16:57] <researcher> :)hello friends here
[17:14] <sbalneav> You know, 5 minutes is not enough time for people to hang around waiting for an answer to their question.
[17:17] <Ahmuck> ?
[17:19] <Ahmuck> what's the new release called?
[17:19] <Ahmuck> what's 10.04 called?
[17:20] <Ahmuck> Leaping Leapord?
[17:20] <alkisg> Lucid Lynx
[17:20] <Ahmuck> ah
[17:24] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: researcher came in here with a question, asked at 11:01, and bailed at 11:05
[17:36] <Ahmuck> i'm torn
[17:37] <sbalneav> Must be painful.
[17:37] <sbalneav> Try eating more fibre :)
[17:37] <Ahmuck> given the chioce, id close the lab in december
[17:41] <sbalneav> What's the other choice?
[17:43] <Ahmuck> leave it open
[17:44] <Ahmuck> operating it at a significant loss
[18:40] <sbalneav> How come operating it at a loss?
[18:40] <sbalneav> This a school lab?
[18:45] <Ahmuck> it's an independent community lab
[18:46] <Ahmuck> we do compete with the local school district.  they lease out to the college.  they are windows
[18:47] <Ahmuck> and the local library
[18:47] <Ahmuck> we've been looking at grants
[18:47] <sbalneav> So is this your job?
[18:47] <Ahmuck> no, i do IT work on the windows side
[18:48] <Ahmuck> for manufacturers.  windows labs are a piece of cake.
[18:50] <Ahmuck> msg me if you want to know more sbalneav
[18:50] <sbalneav> So, is this lab an edubuntu lab, or a windows lab?
[18:52] <Ahmuck> it's a ltsp lab.  focusing on scribus, openoffice, some hand selected edu apps, gimp, etc.
[18:52] <Ahmuck> it's an open source lab
[18:53] <Ahmuck> it's used to teach theory/concepts in word processing, DTP, spreadsheets, etc.
[18:53] <Ahmuck> open during the day, teaching at night.  we have mixed groups during the day
[18:53] <Ahmuck> the problem we've had is the law is so onereous
[18:53] <sbalneav> And, what, nobody's interested in renting it?
[18:54] <Ahmuck> we don't lease
[18:57] <sbalneav> Then I'm unclear on why you want to shut it down.
[19:12] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: ok, back to the subject
[19:12] <Ahmuck> the original premise was
[19:12] <Ahmuck> 1. create a public education lab using oss software only
[19:13] <Ahmuck> 2. create a space where linux was used and promoted
[19:13] <Ahmuck> 3. real world testing of software/ideas and comparison
[19:14] <Ahmuck> 4. be self-supporting
[19:16] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: sooo, when ur back, drop me a note
[19:17] <Ahmuck> 5. provide a place where underprivledge could gain access to pc technology
[19:23] <sbalneav> Ok, so what's prompting the shutdown?
[19:27] <Ahmuck> well, i've been unable to get the clients to function properly, hence i've been looking at NDB & LDAP
[19:27] <dgroos> Hi sbalneav and Ahmuck...
[19:27] <Ahmuck> if the clients don't function, advertising it is a no no
[19:27] <Ahmuck> cause I don't want to advertise it and make linux/oss look bad
[19:27] <Ahmuck> even if it is me
[19:28] <Ahmuck> the other problem is cost.  after doing books for the year end or near year end, the roi, or cost/benifit ratio isn't there
[19:28] <Ahmuck> however, we have used it for 1. LUG use and 2. community magazine production using OO.o and scribus
[19:29]  * Ahmuck is a bit of a bleeding heart
[19:37] <sbalneav> So, remind me, what isn't working about the thin clients?
[19:41] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: well, we do have inet access during the day.  firefox has been a problem, as well as flash.
[19:41] <Ahmuck> however, scribus has been a problem as well
[19:41] <Ahmuck> games like ri-li
[19:42] <Ahmuck> i've actually found that windows games runs faster from the ltsp server on the client than linux games
[19:42] <Ahmuck> as a result, if given the choice, i download the windows version over the linux version
[19:44] <Ahmuck> scribus/gimp can be problems
[19:45] <Ahmuck> i understand alkisg has no issues, but i'm not sure why
[19:45] <sbalneav> "Problems" in what way?
[19:45] <Ahmuck> slooooow
[19:45] <Ahmuck> lockups
[19:45] <Ahmuck> etc.
[19:45] <sbalneav> What kind of thin clients do you have?
[19:45] <Ahmuck> 800Mhz - 1Ghz with 512mb ram
[19:45] <sbalneav> Do you have NBD swap turned on?
[19:45] <Ahmuck> gigabyte network and gigabyte swtich
[19:46] <Ahmuck> don't rightly know, but can check.  iirc, i did turn that on
[19:46] <Ahmuck> the clients have 20G hard disks, but they were dbaned
[19:46] <alkisg> Ahmuck: do you have local firefox & flash, and you're still not satisfied with the result?
[19:46] <sbalneav> when things are slow, is the server's cpu loaed?
[19:47] <Ahmuck> alkisg: local firefox
[19:47] <Ahmuck> i'd have to check on flash
[19:47] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: not sure, i can top it and see
[19:48] <alkisg> Well if the firefox is local, and you see flash, then flash is local too. Then, the speed is not a matter of LTSP, it's just your client CPUs, as flash runs locally.
[19:49] <alkisg> I *do* have problems, e.g. I can't run googleearth etc, but with my ancient clients, googleearth wouldn't run on windows as well.
[19:49] <alkisg> Overall, I'm more satisfied with LTSP than with Windows with those clients (I've had windows 98 and 2000 on them before switching them to LTSP)
[19:50] <alkisg> On newer labs I don't install LTSP, but standalone Ubuntu
[19:50] <alkisg> You have to know what to expect...
[20:13] <Ahmuck> alkisg: can you run scribus, gimp?
[20:13] <alkisg> Gimp yes, scribus I didn't try
[20:14] <Ahmuck> multiple gimps?
[20:14] <Ahmuck> so, if not ltsp, then what?
[20:15] <Ahmuck> i'm really really trying to make this work, but have began to have serious doubts
[20:15] <Ahmuck> essentially we've been in a year of testing.  i've considered getting a new server, quad core and new clients
[20:15] <alkisg> What do you mean "multiple gimps"? I've tried with one gimp per PC (the studens drawing stuff...)
[20:15] <Ahmuck> however, i'd hate to put out the cost without having any good test cases
[20:16] <Ahmuck> how many pcs
[20:16] <alkisg> 8
[20:17] <alkisg> But I didn't have any bottleneck, so I guess I could run about 20 with the same server / network. Of course the behavior is a little slower than e.g. on my desktop PC, but that's to be expected...
[20:20] <Ahmuck> i think we worked out i didn't have a bottleneck either ...
[20:22] <alkisg> And? Gimp doesn't go fast enough, or it doesn't work at all?
[20:22] <alkisg> (I think we just found out that you didn't have a network problem, we didn't look at other common bottlenecks, like CPU etc...)
[20:23] <Ahmuck> it works slowly
[20:23] <Ahmuck> i'm sure ur aware, that when using scribus, you can load a photo of any size into the image frame
[20:23] <alkisg> I've never seen scribus...
[20:23] <Ahmuck> three of four people doing this is murder on ltsp
[20:23] <Ahmuck> ...
[20:23] <Ahmuck> it's a great DTP tool
[20:24] <alkisg> I use openoffice for DTP :P
[20:24] <Ahmuck> *groan*
[20:24] <alkisg> I did publish books with openoffice, and they're fine. Much better than I could do with Word.
[20:25] <Ahmuck> well, ok, i agree, OO.o will work for that and it does well i guess
[20:42] <dgroos> I'm running gnome-watchdog and it really helps eliminate processes abandoned after a user logs out.
[20:43] <Ahmuck> dgroos: kewl, thx
[20:43] <Ahmuck> this has been a problem.  user logs out, and then logs in the next day and can't use firefox
[20:43] <dgroos> Ahmuck: watchdog helps lot.
[20:43] <dgroos> But...
[20:44] <dgroos> ...after a few classes of logging in and out I notice that the overall memory usage of the server is a good ways up.
[20:45] <dgroos> (as compared to right after reboot)
[20:45] <Ahmuck> btw, how is your classroom lab?
[20:46] <dgroos> Ahmuck: have you checked this w/ top or Administration/System Monitor?
[20:48] <dgroos> It's going pretty well!  I can feel your pain though on wanting to go system wide w/Edubuntu and LTSP and feeling that it's not quite ready for primetime (UNDER MY LEADERSHIP).
[20:49] <dgroos> I've a feeling it would be if I had alkisg's knowledge/skills (I've got a bit of them though thanks to him teaching me!)
[20:49] <Ahmuck> my problem is time
[20:49] <dgroos> LocalApps made a quantum leap ahead for me.
[20:49] <Ahmuck> i don't like working 18 hour days
[20:49] <dgroos> Yes.
[20:50] <dgroos> Family/Health doesn't like it either, in my case!
[20:51] <dgroos> You using PIII's, right?
[20:53] <Ahmuck> dgroos: yep
[20:53] <Ahmuck> gateways
[20:54] <dgroos> localapps?
[20:54] <Ahmuck> heh, i thought for a sec you said pills
[20:54] <dgroos> or are you doing Hardy?
[20:54] <Ahmuck> dgroos: not sure yet
[20:54] <Ahmuck> nope, i'm on jaunty
[20:54] <dgroos> (tempting... ;)?)
[20:55] <dgroos> So not using localapps.
[20:55] <Ahmuck> jaunty did fix a number of problems, however i did'nt have firefox issues on an ealier release
[20:55] <Ahmuck> i'd have to check.  i'm in the middle of something with Jack right now
[20:56] <dgroos> sure.  When you get a chance, let's talk about localapps.  I sunk a good bit of my summer in them--and it was worth it.
[21:26] <dgroos> I'm remotely exploring my server (via NX) trying to find why it's slow to log in, and why memory use grows throughout the day.
[21:26] <dgroos> I just found that my file system is at 100% full!
[21:27] <dgroos> How can I find memory usage by directory?
[21:30] <alkisg> dgroos: there's a tool for that in applications > accessories
[21:30] <dgroos> after I type: df -h it tells me that /dev/cciss/c0d0p1 is 100%
[21:30] <dgroos> thanks alkisg--I'll check it out.
[21:31] <dgroos> nice :)
[21:41] <Ahmuck> dgroos: actually, i'm on karamic
[21:41] <dgroos> cool.  So, have you looked much into LocalApps?
[21:43] <Ahmuck> some.  i think i have localapps enabled
[21:44] <dgroos> Easy to tell.  If you are sitting at a client, boot firefox and at the 'title bar' where it says 'firefox' it should say something like 'firefox ltsp 48' or something like that.
[21:45] <dgroos> alkisg: I'm doing a 'Scan Folder' and it is telling me some things I can't make sense of...
[21:47] <dgroos> I'm scanning the /home directory, click on a user that is, for example, using 184 MB.
[21:47] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: fwiw, my pay job pays for my non-pay community stuff
[21:50] <dgroos> it then lists the top 2 folders for this user as 'boot' using 19.4% and '.mozilla' using 19.2%, then is bin with 3.3% and quickly all things lists are .1%.  Thus, doing quick math, the things listed account for less than 50%!
[21:50] <dgroos> Where is the hidden 50% being used?
[21:52] <dgroos> Other confusion... Looking at this user (and I've got dozens like him), I then open the 'boot' folder which is said to be using 19.4% of his contents.
[21:54] <dgroos> ... and inside this folder only 1 thing is listed, 'pxelinux.cfg', using 0.0% of this.  So, where is the 35.8 MB of content it is said to have?
[21:54] <dgroos> Maybe I ought to launch this from terminal as root...
[22:16] <dgroos> Weird... why would it say my home directory used 2.3 gigs when Disk Analyzer was opened as user with admin privileges and LESS THAN HALF that when examined by Disk Analyzer running as root?
[22:17] <Ahmuck> http://deals.ebay.com/5000005280 - i can't build em cheaper than this
[22:35] <dgroos> A user kker1101 is said to be using 7.4 gigs.  I examine his directories using Disk Usage Analyzer with root privileges.  100% of this 7.4 gigs is in this directory: home/kker1101/dev/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/fd/3/... seemingly forever.  What's going on?  Googling hasn't given me any lead.  There are many users that have this fd/3/... issue!
[22:36] <sbalneav> dgroos: They're putting spaces in their usernames
[22:36] <sbalneav> have you updated your ltsp packages from stgrabers ppa?
[22:36] <sbalneav> he fixed this
[22:37] <dgroos> do I have to do this manually or if I run sudo apt-get update then upgrade it will that do it?
[22:37] <Ahmuck> you need to add the ppa manually
[22:38] <Ahmuck> or via the software sources interface
[22:38] <dgroos> I think I had that... I'll check.
[22:40] <dgroos> ahhh... I have it in my source list but had them unchecked.  I think I did that because I also have edubuntu-italc-devel ppa selected and thought they might conflict or read that somewhere--don't remember.
[22:41] <dgroos> sbalneav: after I run the update do I have to delete this seeming infinite series of fd/3 or should I delete the user or... ?
[22:45] <sbalneav> yeah, delete the fd's
[23:02] <dgroos> wow... took about 2 minutes to rm -r the fd of that 7.4 gig user, now working on the next....
[23:28] <dgroos> sbalneav: do I need to rebuild the chroot or anything after the update?  It's taking a while to remove all these spurious fd/ directories and don't want them to be re-created on Monday again.  Is there some link that describes this issue?  THANKS!
[23:38] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: what do you suggest for my situation?