[00:04] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: Whats up?
[00:04] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: I just got home, what you need me to test?
[00:11] <DarkwingDuck> *holds breath*
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: Adept, kontact and okular each use their own sidebar. I wish there was a ksidebar too
[00:16] <Timq> Hello!
[00:16] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: It installed just fine. Lemme reboot really quick and make sure everything seems to run okay...
[00:19] <Timq> To whom would I talk to offer my services for Project Timelord?
[00:20] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: adept, kontact, okular, kate, and konqueror :)
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> meh :( soprano_2.3.70+dfsg.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes rejected
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> Timq: you don't really have to talk to anybody. contributing to kubuntu is contributing to project timelord
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> I guess the question is: What do you want to do?
[00:22] <Timq> Oh, I see.  Is the link in the channel header the list of current WIPs?
[00:23] <Timq> Well, I have experience with web development (PHP, MySQL) and all that, as well as experience on Java and C++ applications
[00:23] <Timq> I also have worked some with C in a Linux environment, if that could help on anything
[00:24] <JontheEchidna> Yes, that is the Todo list for the next release
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> If web development is your thing, you may want to get in touch with ryanacka (who appears to not be here at the moment)
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, Riddell: Any idea what set of packages I can upload to is? soprano got rejected for being in main. :(
[00:26] <Timq> Hmmmm, really?  What sort of stuff is he working on currently?
[00:27] <geekles_> the kubuntu logo on the shield on kubuntu.org is Hot! kudos to whomever did that.
[00:27] <JontheEchidna> geekles_: thank nookie^ if you can catch him online sometime. he's responsible for that
[00:27] <JontheEchidna> Timq: oh, he's pretty much the one-man army for web development for kubuntu
[00:27] <geekles_> i will, that's just fantastic looking. good work on getting 4.3.4 out so quickly too guys.
[00:27] <JontheEchidna> I'm quite positive he'd like to not be a one-man army ;-)
[00:28] <Timq> Hahaha, interesting.  Well, I
[00:28] <Timq> '...*I'll keep my eyes open for him, and let him know.  Thanks!
[00:28] <geekles_> i'll have to check the contribute wiki for web stuff then
[00:28] <JontheEchidna> Timq: I believe there's a section on the Todo pertaining to web dev stuff
[00:28] <JontheEchidna> "Community, Website, Marketing and Branding"
[00:28] <Timq> Ok, I'll check it out
[00:36] <geekles> so the Todo has a section on web dev stuff, but it's rather ahh, vague? and the wiki page on gettinginvolved/design is empty. where would one find out more if interested?
[00:37] <Timq> geekles:  I agree.  It all looks nice, but is there anything more oriented towards software development rather than marketing?
[00:37] <Timq> ^ (Generalized question for anyone)
[00:38] <Timq> In addition to web development, I'm willing to work on anything in C++ (which I saw mentioned on the Project Timelord homepage)
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> About the only C++ project we have going on now is Kubuntu Notification Helper: https://edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-notification-helper
[00:44] <Timq> Ah, based on that link, I take it that you are the current maintainer, Jon?
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> yep
[00:45] <tsimpson> and the ubuntu-one KDE client
[00:45] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah. forgot about that one
[00:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger is heading up that
[00:46] <Timq> What is that, tsimpson?  I'm sorry, I'm just not familiar with all the various projects going on. :)
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> there's probably quite a bit more to do there than with kubuntu-notification-helper
[00:47] <tsimpson> Timq: it's a client for one.ubuntu.com
[00:48] <tsimpson> http://gitorious.org/ubuntuone-client-kde
[00:55] <Timq> Hmm, I'll have to think about all this some more before I can choose anything.  Thank you!
[00:55] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ./edit_acl.py -P kubuntu -S lucid query
[00:55] <tsimpson> it help if you know Qt and KDE
[00:55] <Timq> Yes, I can imagine.  Looks like I'll have to learn :/
[00:55] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: edit_acl.py can be found on Launchpad
[00:56] <ScottK> I think in archive-admin-tools or something like that
[00:57] <JontheEchidna> is that a team or a project?
[00:59] <Timq> Goodnight (or Good day?), everyone!
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk
[00:59] <geekles> Is there a contact for contributing with the web design stuff, or should I just post to the kubuntu-devel mailing list?
[01:00] <tsimpson> https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-website
[01:00] <tsimpson> you can file bugs against the website there
[01:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That looks right
[01:01] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: konq_sidebar is a kpart :)
[01:02]  * nixternal goes and watches president failbama
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: To whom would I speak about adding akonadi and soprano to the list?
[01:03] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: We should talk to cjwatson.
[01:03] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: Seems to be working
[01:03] <ScottK> nixternal: Can you upload JontheEchidna's stuff while you're watching TV?
[01:03]  * ScottK has several hours before he can sit still long enough to do it.
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> it's actually lex's stuff, which I was sponsoring for him
[01:05] <Lex79> ScottK: should we keep boost 1.38 for now?
[01:05] <ScottK> Lex79: Have to.  1.40 is still in Universe
[01:05] <Lex79> oh, ok
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: Oh, konq's is totally different that kontact, adept and okular's
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> kate and konq's are similar
[01:07] <JontheEchidna> soprano package I was trying to upload is here: http://jmthomas.toniox.org/soprano_2.3.70%2bdfsg.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
[01:10] <JontheEchidna> qt4-x11 is another notable package missing from the list of things kubuntu-devs can upload
[01:10] <JontheEchidna> maybe I should start a list
[01:21] <txwikinger> nixternal: why watching? isn't hearing already depressing enough?
[01:36] <DarkwingDuck> hmmm, after that @$$ F***ing I need a cigarette...
[01:39]  * kb9vqf agrees, but doesn't smoke...
[01:39] <kb9vqf> more, wonders what he was smoking
[01:40] <dailystruggle> well hokka of course
[01:41] <dailystruggle> or is it khooka
[01:42] <DarkwingDuck> *sigh*
[01:42] <DarkwingDuck> why did I even have a dream that we were getting out of there?
[01:43] <DarkwingDuck> I really don't want to go back... Oh well.
[02:33] <txwikinger> DarkwingDuck: You are going back to Afghanistan?
[02:33] <DarkwingDuck> possibly...
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> But, I don't think they will medically clear me.
[02:34] <txwikinger> Are you active or reserve?
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> Active.
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> almost 7 years
[02:35] <txwikinger> I had several students in the British military who were over there while I was their lecturer
[02:35] <DarkwingDuck> ahhh, I'm US Navy
[02:36] <txwikinger> ah.. now your nick make sense :)
[02:37] <DarkwingDuck> My Nick was based upon a childhood hero and... it was my handle on the ship LOL
[02:41]  * txwikinger wonders who they get ships to Afghanistan :D
[02:41] <txwikinger> s/who/how/
[02:42] <ScottK> txwikinger: Not all of the Navy is afloat.
[02:43] <txwikinger> ScottK: I know.. it is still fun to ask this question
[02:43] <ScottK> My last reserve command we wore Army BDUs and ran in formation to be in shape in case something 'came up'.
[02:44] <DarkwingDuck> I did a tour with the Army as a firefighter at one of the mobile air fields
[02:45]  * ScottK was in a mobile communications unit.
[02:45] <ScottK> Long, long ago.
[02:45] <txwikinger> I friend of mine was in those electronic surveilance planes while he was in the navy
[02:45] <txwikinger> but he is retired for long time now
[02:47] <DarkwingDuck> ahhhh
[02:48] <DarkwingDuck> I'm an aircraft firefighter
[02:48] <DarkwingDuck> and an aircraft director
[02:48] <DarkwingDuck> Both jobs in one :D
[02:48] <DarkwingDuck> Fun job actually
[02:57] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: You around?
[03:00] <DarkwingDuck> Koffice isn't used in kubuntu just OpenOffice for office application correct?
[03:03] <txwikinger> OpenOffice is the default app
[03:03] <txwikinger> but koffice can be downloaded from the repo
[03:04] <txwikinger> aircraft director.... sounds like a lot of stress ... at least on a carrier
[03:11] <DarkwingDuck> Yup
[03:11] <DarkwingDuck> 18 hours a day 7 days a week out to sea
[03:23] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: hey, did you get a version of netbook.xml you want me to push into bzr?
[03:39] <DarkwingDuck> uhhh, yeah, let me email it to you nixternal
[03:39] <DarkwingDuck> give me 5
[03:42] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: Email sent
I could have pushed it... maybe</hint>  :P
[03:44] <nixternal> :p
[03:45] <nixternal> I gotta see how good it is, and it if will break or not...and then I shall quiz you and see if you are worthy :p
[03:45] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: here we go....let me know when you are here...quick quiz
[03:45] <DarkwingDuck> whats up?
[03:46] <nixternal> without looking at the wiki, tell me:
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[03:46] <nixternal> how do you check out our current docs?
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs
[03:46] <nixternal> groovy
[03:46] <nixternal> how do you commit a change?
[03:46] <maco> in bzr?
[03:46] <maco> "bzr commit"
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> bzr commit -m "commit comment"
[03:46] <nixternal> shh
[03:47] <nixternal> FAIL!!!
[03:47] <nixternal> bzr ci :p
[03:47] <maco> oh shush you
[03:47] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: does that commit it to the repo?
[03:47]  * DarkwingDuck rasis an eyebrow
[03:47] <maco> DarkwingDuck: he's using abbreviations
[03:47] <nixternal> bzr ci == bzr commit
[03:47] <dtchen> eww. debcommit, please.
[03:47] <DarkwingDuck> :D Got ya
[03:47] <maco> i assume ci is taken from svn's checkin
[03:47] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: how do you push your change to the branch?
[03:48] <nixternal> maco: ci from cvs
[03:48] <nixternal> actually before cvs, can't remember the app though
[03:48] <DarkwingDuck> bzr push lp:kubuntu-docs
[03:48] <maco> ok fine. be old!
[03:48] <nixternal> ooh, you even added the last part
[03:48] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: validate a doc
[03:48] <nixternal> I should break a doc, and have you validate and fix it...but you already know xml, so that won't be any fun :)
[03:48] <DarkwingDuck> using our validator or w3.org validation?
[03:49] <nixternal> never mind smarty pants :p
[03:49] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[03:50] <DarkwingDuck> Ive used w3.org validation for so long... Unless you would rather us use ours
[03:50] <DarkwingDuck> DocBook DTD doesn't add too much other then some euro additions...
[03:51] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: do me a favor ->   bzr push lp:~darkwingduck/kubuntu-docs
[03:51] <nixternal> this way you have a branch registered
[03:51] <DarkwingDuck> https://code.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck/+junk/kubuntu-docs-dw
[03:52] <DarkwingDuck> I did that so I could share the docs I am working on between my netbook and desktop
[03:52] <nixternal> get it out of junk so it registers with lp:kubuntu-doc
[03:53] <DarkwingDuck> ~darkwingduck/kubuntu-docs
[03:53] <DarkwingDuck> BAH
[03:54] <DarkwingDuck> there is an error.
[03:54] <DarkwingDuck> Says invalid URL
[03:55] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:56] <DarkwingDuck> invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~darkwingduck/kubuntu-docs": ~darkwingduck/kubuntu-docs is too short to be a branch name.
[03:56] <nixternal> oh well, don't worry about it...I just asked mdke to add you to the committers list anyways
[03:57] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, I just got the email.
[04:06] <shtylman> does the picture frame widget actually work for anyone in slideshow mode?
[04:08] <DarkwingDuck> Have not tried it
[04:39] <vorian> hello all, I was wondering if you all would be willing and able to give a testimonial on my wiki page for my run for the IRC council
[04:39] <vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup
[04:42] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Riddell is on vacation, kayaking in the Scottish Highlands, this week, so his internet connection is a bit spotty.  I saw you ping'ed him earlier.
[04:43] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, he pinged me about 30 min before I pinged him LOL
[04:44] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: were there any other issues with the libattica package? (I believe I've resolved all of the ones you raised with the latest upload)
[04:44] <txwikinger> they have Internet in the Scottish Highlands?
[04:44] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That was it.
[04:45] <ScottK> txwikinger: Apparently a wee bit.
[04:45] <JontheEchidna> k, cool. I believe I'll upload it then
[04:45] <txwikinger> well.. it would be almost 5am there now...  the spottiness is probably due to time of day :D
[04:48] <ScottK> txwikinger: That too, but even when he was trying to be online it wasn't going well.  He missed JontheEchidna's kubuntu-dev application.
[04:48] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Give me the REVU link again so I can stamp advocated on it.
[04:48] <txwikinger> indeed...I noticed that
[04:48] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libattica
[04:49] <shtylman> ScottK: I need to package something... the live assistant python app... its platform independent.. and I don't have any .orig files or anything... its brand new
[04:49] <shtylman> what is the best way to do that so that it can go into my PPA
[04:49] <shtylman> my experience with packaging things...is...well basically 0
[04:49] <ScottK> shtylman: Where is upstream going to live?
[04:49] <shtylman> launchpad
[04:50] <shtylman> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-assistant/trunk
[04:50] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Advocated.  Don't forget to archive it after you upload.
[04:51] <ScottK> shtylman: There is some LP process for releasing a tarball.  I don't know what it is.  In the meantime, you can make a tarball from a bzr snapshot.
[04:52] <shtylman> and that will act as orig?
[04:52] <ScottK> shtylman: I believe that vorian wants me to say nice things about him for IRC Council and so my desire to see you succeed may cause him to help you.
[04:52] <ScottK> shtylman: Yes.
[04:52] <shtylman> hahaha
[04:53] <shtylman> :)
[04:53] <shtylman> I like the sound of that
[04:53] <vorian> :)
[05:05] <ScottK> Lex79 and JontheEchidna: Soprano uploaded.
[05:05] <ScottK> Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[05:30] <nixternal> shtylman: on your ubuntu-assistant, change your port from 6667 to 8001 please :)
[05:30] <shtylman> nixternal: is that more correct?
[05:31] <nixternal> it is a safer port, that way there the client won't disconnect when someone attempts the DCC exploit
[05:31] <shtylman> gotcha
[05:31] <shtylman> does that port still allow for file transfers?
[05:31] <DarkwingDuck> Is there going to be a KDE "Software Store" or, a Gnomeish looking add/remove to find programs vice packages that you have to search by in KPackageKit
[05:32] <nixternal> shtylman: shtylman yes it does
[05:32] <shtylman> cool
[05:32] <shtylman> changed
[05:32] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: not that I know of
[05:32] <DarkwingDuck> Any reason why?
[05:32] <nixternal> none other than I don't think anyone is working on it
[05:32] <DarkwingDuck> Just no devs for it or...
[05:32] <nixternal> exactly
[05:32] <DarkwingDuck> *nods* Okayt
[05:33] <DarkwingDuck> BRB, switing computers
[05:33] <nixternal> it would be a lot of work since the Ubuntu Software Center is so GNOME it isn't even funny....when they decide to split out the GNOME bits and make a common backend, then maybe :)
[05:33] <nixternal> I was trying to look at shaman today, but for some reason, Karmic and Lucid have outdated packagekit packages
[05:34] <nixternal> and on that note, I am going to bed :)
[05:34] <nixternal> g'nite all...oh DarkwingDuck I uploaded your netbook doc...good start
[05:34] <glatzor_> nixternal, because of missinf plicykit 1 support
[05:34] <glatzor_> missing
[05:35] <nixternal> glatzor_: ahh, I knew there had to be a reason
[05:53] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: Any reason on the root element there are two attributes instead of making those atributes into elements in the <articleinfo> elements?
[05:59] <Darkwing-Netbook> dangit... nixternal must have gone to bed.
[06:07] <Darkwing-Netbook> Okay, I'm off to bed
[07:51] <Mamarok> why oh why is KDE 4.3.4 yet in another PPA? Can't we just use the backports one for new versions? This is ridiculous
[07:53] <Mamarok> it was in the backports previously, and IIRC didn't we decide not to have that old PPA mess anymore?
[07:53]  * Mamarok shakes head at so much confusion
[07:55] <Mamarok> with the left hand not knowing what the right hand does, we will never end up with a sane Kubuntu community, really
[07:55] <Mamarok>  /rant
[07:55] <jussi01> Mamarok: wait a sec, you say some of these people are sane to start with? o.O
[07:55]  * markey upgrades to KDE SC 4.3.4
[07:56] <Mamarok> jussi01: it is a damn mess, that's what it is
[07:56] <jussi01> I've met some of them... definately not sane :P
[07:56] <Mamarok> it is a backport of a new version, so it has to be in backports, period
[07:56] <Mamarok> how difficult is that to understand?
[07:57] <Mamarok> clear policy where things below is really badly needed
[07:57]  * Mamarok goes to update that topic of the #kubuntu channel
[07:58] <Mamarok> oh well, done already, still doesn't change the fact that you folks are messing up thing again, I bet we will have a bazillion PPAs again by then end of the Lucid cycle
[08:01] <jussi01> Mamarok: true, and sorry to interupt your little rant with my jokes
[08:06] <Quintasan|Szel> sup?
[08:27] <markey> upgrade went smoothly :)
[08:27] <markey> thanks for the packaging
[09:06]  * Sput sticks with his trusted 4.3.80+
[09:06] <Tm_T> Sput: oooooold
[09:06]  * Tm_T hides
[09:06] <Sput> Tm_T: mmmh, .81 tagged already?
[09:07] <Sput> my KDE is 22 hours old, but still says .80 :)
[09:07] <Tm_T> Sput: no tags
[09:07] <Sput> Tm_T: see, then it's still 4.3.80+!
[09:08] <Tm_T> Sput: true, but when you get running binaries done, it's already old in svn (:
[09:08] <Sput> Tm_T: well, building takes a few hours, so nothing I can do about that :)
[09:08]  * Sput rebuilds about daily
[09:08] <Sput> though I don't restart KDE daily
[09:09] <Sput> which means I waste tons of cycles
[09:09] <Sput> :)
[09:09] <Tm_T> Sput: I know, joys of opensource, there's always something new (:
[09:10] <Sput> Tm_T: of course :)
[09:10] <Sput> and people wonder why I don't like binary distros :)
[09:10] <Tm_T> Sput: I like binary distros, let you free to use your CPU time building and testing something you're interested
[10:40] <amichair> I'm looking at jocket for some crash bugs, and have some questions
[10:41] <amichair> like why the code used by kde is running a gtk event loop
[10:41] <amichair> who knows jockey/dbus well?
[10:45] <tsimpson> it's using the glib loop
[10:45] <tsimpson> which Qt uses too, btw
[10:45] <tsimpson> also the QtDBus stuff is not ported to python, so it needs to use the "native" python dbus bindings
[10:48] <amichair> tsimpson: Qt uses actual glib code, or are the loop somehow standardized?
[10:49] <tsimpson> amichair: Qt has the option to use glib if it's available
[10:49] <amichair> the dbus-python docs show how to use a Qt main loop, wouldn't it be better to use that?
[10:50] <tsimpson> if it works, possibly
[10:50] <amichair> tsimpson: do u have a few moments to discuss other things in jockey?
[10:51] <tsimpson> I haven't really messed with the jockey code in a while, but I'll help if I can
[10:53] <amichair> in the same place where the loop is used (dbus_sync_call_signal_wrapper), it uses global variables to hold call results - couldn't that cause a race condition?
[10:54] <amichair> e.g. if the event loop catches  a signal, whose processing calls another dbus method
[10:55] <tsimpson> oops ;)
[10:55] <tsimpson> if you mean the "DBUS_BUS_NAME" var, then it's never changed anyway, right?
[10:55] <tsimpson> oh, wait. I see what you mean
[10:55] <amichair> no, 'global _h_reply_result' and '_h_exception_result'
[10:56] <amichair> well I'm looking for a crash with no idea what causes it which I can't recreate, so I'm just poking at anything that looks suspicious, I don't know if it actually occurrs in practice
[10:57] <tsimpson> I don't think so, as those actually seem to be function local
[10:57] <amichair> they're explicitly declared 'global', doesn't that make them really global?
[10:58] <tsimpson> well there are sub-functions in there, so global is just non-local to those
[10:58] <tsimpson> plus the _h_reply_result variable only appears in that one function and in that one file
[10:58] <amichair> so 'global' goes one level up in scope?
[10:59] <tsimpson> well that "global _h_reply_result, _h_exception_exc" seems to do nothing as far as I can see
[10:59] <amichair> yeah but nothing stops that method from being called concurrently, especially since it goes through the trouble of processing signals while waiting for results
[10:59] <tsimpson> those are used nowhere else in the code
[11:00] <tsimpson> each function will be called with a closure
[11:00] <tsimpson> which means that each should have its own instance of those
[11:00] <tsimpson> ie: not shared
[11:00] <tsimpson> they only seem to be used for the _h_reply and _h_error sub-functions
[11:02] <amichair> which in turn change the global variables... AIUI those globals will thus be accessed concurrently, overwriting each other's results
[11:03] <amichair> unless 'global' is not really global... trying to read up on that
[11:04] <tsimpson> amichair: the global there seems to insert the variables into the global scope, but nothing else uses them
[11:05] <amichair> nothing else except that method, which may be called concurrently?
[11:06] <tsimpson> I'm not sure if it is called concurrently, but that's part of the jockey backend
[11:07] <tsimpson> ie: we didn't write it
[11:07] <amichair> what I'm trying to say is there's one method, with two internal callbacks, which change a global variable. if the method (specifically its callbacks) are called twice concurrently, there's a race condition in setting the globals
[11:07] <tsimpson> I see that
[11:08] <tsimpson> maybe the gobject main loop thing locks it?
[11:10] <amichair> dunno
[11:11] <amichair> also, there's a _package_operation_in_progress flag, which isn't properly locked too
[11:13] <amichair> (but used as if it were)
[11:21] <tsimpson> I guess you should file a bug against jockie and see what they say
[11:23] <amichair> the bugs which brought me here are already filed... so I guess either I just leave it alone and let them do it, or I find someone involved which I can discuss it with
[11:23] <tsimpson> well, I mean about the possible race condition
[11:24] <amichair> there are a bunch of similar things, not sure it will help to open a bug for each, especially since I'm not sure :-)
[11:24] <amichair> do u know who wrote it?
[11:24] <ghostcube> hi humans
[11:25] <tsimpson> amichair: several people at canonical, other than that, nope :(
[11:29] <tsimpson> I'm putting myself forward for the IRC Council, comments welcome on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TerenceSimpson :)
[12:03] <markey> guys, I'm trying to build a tool that's using autoconf (automake and all this old stuff). anyway, autoconf is giving me this error:
[12:03] <markey> configure.ac:6: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE
[12:03] <markey> anyone got an idea where that comes from?
[12:05] <ScottK> Mamarok: We are waiting to get tech board approval to put it into -proposed/updates (4.3.4).  Currently it has at least one serious regression (no spell checking reported by multiple people) that needs to get resolved.
[12:09] <Mamarok> ScottK: nah, I was talking about the Kubuntu backports PPA, why isn't it there? Makes not much sense to me, yet another PPA
[12:10] <Mamarok> since it is a backport, so I don't see why it is in a kubuntu PPA which is less than self explaining
[12:10] <ScottK> Mamarok: Part of the problem there is that we really can't put Qt 4.6 in regular Ubuntu backports.  It affects too many packages, so backport of a major version like 4.4, really has to be in a PPA.
[12:11] <Mamarok> I didn't talk about regular backports, but the backports PPA
[12:11] <Mamarok> where KDE 4.3.3 and Amarok 2.2.1 are already
[12:11] <ScottK> Ah, I see.
[12:11] <ScottK> 4.3.3 should not have gone in that PPA.
[12:11] <ScottK> The backports PPA should be for the major version updates like a backport of 4.4.
[12:12] <Mamarok> so if we backport KDE stuff, it really should go into backports PPA, else ewe are going to have again a bazillion of PPAs during the next months
[12:12] <ScottK> It should be at most 4.
[12:12] <Mamarok> keep in mind that it should at least be consistent, now it is very far from that
[12:12] <ScottK> 4.3.3 in backports PPA was a mistake.
[12:12] <Mamarok> how many PPAs are there in use now? 4? which is too many already
[12:13] <ScottK> One of them should never concern users.
[12:13] <Mamarok> well, then sort that out, but one PPA for all things backported should be consistent, it is confusing and just wrong the way it is now
[12:13] <Mamarok> we have been using backports PPA for all KDE backports so far, why not now?
[12:13] <ScottK> We use the staging PPA so we can give an entire KDE SC update at once.
[12:14] <ScottK> The idea is to have three for potential users:
[12:14] <jussi01> yeah, staging shouldnt really be added at all
[12:14] <ScottK> 1.  For updates of the existing KDE version (like 4.3.4)
[12:14] <Mamarok> the mess in Intrepid and Jaunty with 6 PPAs where nobody knew what should go where was already a hassle, let's not start that confudion again
[12:14] <ScottK> 2.  For upgrades to the next major KDE SC (4.4)
[12:14] <ScottK> 3.  One for experimental stuff you really need to be careful about.
[12:14] <ScottK> That should be it.
[12:15] <ScottK> Mamarok: I agree it got out of hand before.
[12:15] <Mamarok> yes, but now we are already in a mess again since we have two KDE 4.3.x updates in different PPAs for Karmic
[12:15] <ScottK> I do think we need these three tough
[12:15] <ScottK> I'll remove 4.3.3 from backports.
[12:15] <Mamarok> I agree we need staging, but we should be consistent, and rename PPAs if needed and then definitely stick to the paln
[12:16] <Mamarok> plan*
[12:16] <ScottK> I thought it had been moved.
[12:16] <Mamarok> currently it's all a mess again, not as bad as before, but still a mess
[12:17] <Mamarok> I really thought it was sorted once and for all, so maybe a mail to the kubuntu-devel list with a clear proposition and everybody stick to that is needed
[12:20] <ScottK> I'm currently removing the stuff from backports that should never have been there.
[12:20] <Mamarok> ScottK: be careful to have the website entries updated accordingly, too, we point people there usually
[12:21]  * Mamarok is not an editor and can't change that
[12:21] <Mamarok> ScottK: thanks for changing :)
[12:22] <Mamarok> ScottK: so where will Amarok 2.2.1 be? still in backports or the kubuntu PPA?
[12:22] <ScottK> Mamarok: I was just looking at that one.
[12:23] <ScottK> Mamarok: It looks to me like that should be in updates.
[12:23] <Mamarok> yes, I think so, too
[12:23] <markey> ok, I just can't this this to build
[12:24] <markey> another approach: I have a i386 .deb for this tool
[12:24] <markey> can I somehow install it on 64bit?
[12:24] <Mamarok> markey: what are you talking about?
[12:24] <markey> this stupid git-home-history tool
[12:24] <markey> http://jean-francois.richard.name/ghh/
[12:24] <Mamarok> ah, build it from source?
[12:25] <markey> (for making backups with Git)
[12:25] <markey> well, it's not packaged in kubuntu
[12:25] <Mamarok> yep, so build it from source is probably the easiest wy to go for you, or learn packaging for Kubuntu :)
[12:25] <markey> so, I guess I have to "build" it (it's not really a build, because it's written in Bash + Python + Something)
[12:26] <markey> getting this:
[12:26] <Mamarok> ughs
[12:26] <markey> configure.ac:6: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE
[12:26] <seaLne> could some one with kmail from 434 please check if on a message with multiple to/cc fields when selecting reply to all (pressing a) it actually does for you?
[12:26] <markey> if anyone knows how to package it, that would be grand
[12:26] <markey> apparently the tool is very good
[12:26] <markey> it could become popular
[12:30] <markey> rofl, it gets better and better
[12:30] <markey> apparently another guy has no written a tool based on git-home-history, called Git-Home
[12:30] <markey> http://git-home.chezwam.org/tutorial.html
[12:30] <markey> Oo
[12:30] <ScottK> Mamarok: I just copied amarok to updates.  I won't delete it out of backports until after I fix the web site (later today).
[12:31] <Mamarok> ScottK: thanks a lot!
[12:31] <amichair> tsimpson: can u pls take a quick look at Bug #448753? from the trace in the middle, seems like it might have to do with the gtk loop being used in qt - what do u think?
[12:33] <amichair> (there might be a mix of 3 different bugs in that report though...)
[12:37] <tsimpson> amichair: erm, what trace?
[12:37] <amichair> tsimpson: gtk assertions
[12:38] <tsimpson> amichair: that may have nothing to do with the bug
[12:38] <tsimpson> it's just the contents of .xsession-errors
[12:38] <tsimpson> which is normally stderr for any app started from the desktop
[12:39] <amichair> hmmm.... ok then, never mind :-)
[12:41] <dantti> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FoundationsTeam/Specs/LucidSoftwareCenterRepositoryBasedIndexfiles   are you aware of this topic?
[12:55] <ScottK> dantti: Riddell is on vacation this week.
[12:56] <dantti> ScottK: ah.. :P thanks.. maybe you know something about that page?
[12:56] <ScottK> dantti: You might also be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/BackportsNotAutomatic - I think the U/I implications of this are useful for Debian for backports.org, volatile, and experimental.
[12:56]  * ScottK looks
[12:57] <ScottK> dantti: I think I heard some discussion of this, but I'm not familiar with the details.  I'm sure mvo is the person to ask about it.
[13:00] <dantti> ScottK: k, cause there is some stuff like package description and localization that we already have today... don't get why we would need that again..
[13:40] <Quintasan|Szel> ScottK: have libs finished building yet?
[13:41]  * ScottK didn't look.
[13:49]  * Quintasan|Szel got his burgers and is heading home now
[13:50] <rgreening> Quintasan|Szel: I believe so...
[13:52] <Quintasan|Szel> Too bad my ssh setup isnt working. Problems with my router I belive
[14:13] <ScottK> Lex79: I think Qt 4.6.0 is in Debian experimental.  Would you have a look and see if they have anything we'd want before upload to the archive?
[14:16] <Lex79> yes, but be back in ~two hours :)
[14:18] <ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> kde svn 1057466
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> though I suppose kdelibs currently isn't blocking the stack on arm
[15:08] <rgreening> let NCommander know.. he works on this... and has commit rights to KDE to fix.
[15:08] <rgreening> :)
[15:26] <mcas> rgreening: have you seen my comment on the filesharingspecs?
[15:33] <rgreening> what did you change?
[15:34] <mcas> the part about the sambashare group
[15:34] <mcas> we have to check that the user is member of this group to use net usershare
[15:35] <rgreening> ah. ya.
[15:35] <mcas> the first user on a system is member of this group but the other users don't get this privilege automatically
[15:35] <rgreening> I see. that is very true.
[15:36] <mcas> but i can tell you, that the default smb.conf allows net usershare
[15:37] <rgreening> not on my system it didn;'t seem to work without setting max users to something explicitly...
[15:37] <rgreening> (but maybe I need to retry and retest on a clean system)
[15:38] <mcas> i will check it on another system, too
[15:38] <rgreening> kool
[15:39] <mcas> ok here i have the same problem
[15:40] <mcas> but i don't know what i changed on the other one
[15:43] <mcas> tomorrow i can save the other config file and check thhe differences
[16:04] <rgreening> k
[16:47] <ScottK> Lex79: You'll want to be looking into adding "-Wa,-implicit-it=thumb" to the qt4-x11 compiler flags, just for armel.
[16:47] <ScottK> That's likely the solution to it's FTBFS
[16:48] <Lex79> ok
[16:52] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: done
[16:53] <JontheEchidna> still re-extracting the Qt tarball, lol
[16:53] <Lex79> ahah :)
[17:02] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: src/3rdparty/phonon is only 1.8 MB, do you want a tarball for looking if your patch will be applies ?
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: sure
[17:03] <ScottK> Lex79: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 to learn more about Armel than I care to know.
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: I'm about to push the patch to bzr
[17:04] <Lex79> ScottK: ok I'll look, but is there a way to see if build correctly in my pbuilder?
[17:04] <ScottK> Lex79: Not unless you have Ubuntu Lucid armel.
[17:05] <ScottK> cjwatson said he'd look into it.
[17:05] <ScottK> It's handy to show up at the weekly Foundations Team meeting and ask for help.
[17:06] <Lex79> ok, anyway I haven't a Lucid armel
[17:06] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: phonon patch pushed to bzr
[17:07] <amichair> is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ down or is it just me?
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: I know that you'll need to add a build-depend on libpulse0-dev right off the bat
[17:09] <JontheEchidna> amichair: down here too
[17:09] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: ok, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/394059/phonon-4.6.0.tar.gz
[17:09] <amichair> wha a bummah
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: doesn't apply, lol
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> I'll fix it
[17:12] <Lex79> awesome lol
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> rrrrraaaaagh
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> in between rc and final release the....
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> *they...
[17:13] <JontheEchidna> ... updated all of their copyright headers
[17:13] <Quintasan> loooool
[17:13]  * JontheEchidna rages
[17:13] <Quintasan> le fu-
[17:14] <Lex79> brb
[17:14] <Quintasan> hurr durr where's lzma support?
[17:14] <ScottK> Quintasan: What do you mean?
[17:15] <Quintasan> ScottK: I mean uploading lzma source instead of tar.gz
[17:15] <ScottK> lzma source is not supported in Ubuntu or Debian.
[17:15] <ScottK> Once we get V3 support, we'll be able to use tar.bz2 though.
[17:17] <Quintasan> oh
[17:17] <Quintasan> nice
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> If I could get a revu for: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/shared-desktop-ontologies it's be great
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> "Respect mah ontologeh!"
[18:23] <rgreening> haha
[18:30] <Aruna> Hello all i am a new to ubuntu/kubuntu.. if i like to contribute to the project. what language i need to learn i am basically i am a java programmer.. and i do gui programming
[18:31] <ScottK> Aruna: The programming we do is mostly Python (PyQt/PyKDE) and C++ Qt.  We also package stuff which needs knowing about makefiles and shell scripting (not advanced stuff though)
[18:32] <Aruna> ScottK:  if i learn QT is it ok ?
[18:32] <ScottK> Aruna: If you mean Qt, yes (QT is Apple's QuickTime)
[18:33] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:33] <Aruna> ScottK:  nooo Qt
[18:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna will be glad to put you to work.
[18:34] <Aruna> ScottK: currently i dont know any unix lanuage now.. only java :( i may learn some xwindows gui language and start working :)
[18:34] <ScottK> We may sometimes have Java stuff too.
[18:34] <ScottK> It's just not a focus.
[18:35] <Aruna> i can understand :)
[18:36] <Aruna> http://qt.nokia.com/  this is what you use mostly
[18:36] <Aruna> i never learn python
[18:37] <amichair> Aruna: it's pretty simple to pick up python
[18:38] <Aruna> amichair: so i go for PyQt or PyKDE  ?
[18:38] <amichair> the KDE classes sort of wrap around Qt, sometimes adding things
[18:39] <amichair> pyqt/pykde are python bindings for the C++ qt/kde classes
[18:39] <ScottK> Aruna: That is mostly what we use and you can use Qt via Python bindings or C++
[18:40] <amichair> Aruna: do u have any experience with C++?
[18:40] <Aruna> amichair: i do learn basicas i did a small project with c++ and sybase long back.
[18:41] <amichair> so u can either go over qt/kde in C++, or start off with python and then pyqt/pykde
[18:42] <Aruna> Coool :)  i try both and choose a path :)
[18:43] <ScottK> Aruna: Virtually everyone here is here as a volunteer, so ultimately a lot of this is about how you want to contribute.
[18:43] <amichair> if u want u can read the first few chapters of http://www.diveintopython.org/, it should give u a good feel for the language
[18:43] <jussi01> !u | amichair
[18:44] <ScottK> It's also available in Kubuntu as a package if you want to read it locally
[18:44] <amichair> I personally think even if u don't end up really using it, knowing new languages is always a good thing :-)
[18:44] <amichair> sorry jussi01
[18:45] <Aruna> >It's also available in Kubuntu as a package if you want to read it locally ??
[18:46] <amichair> the book, 'Dive Into Python'. it's in the repositories, in various formats downloadable from the site, and available online there too. whatever suits you :-)
[18:47] <Aruna> Wooow
[18:47] <Aruna> PEF ?
[18:47] <Aruna> PDF >
[18:48] <Mamarok> Aruna: just install the package diveintopython, that will bring in the doc
[18:48] <Aruna> Mamarok: great thankyou :)
[18:49] <Mamarok> Aruna: it will then show up in the menu, under documentation
[18:49] <amichair> Aruna: after you get the 'feel' of python from there, the rest is just details you can find in the python docs or search the web - very easy to find answers.
[18:51] <Aruna> yes i got you :) i will be back soon once get idea :)
[18:52] <amichair> Aruna: have fun ;-)
[19:05] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: you happen to be around?
[19:21] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, back to work.
[19:23] <fale__> hi guys
[19:24] <fale__> I haven't seen kde 4.4b1 packaged yet, someone is already working on it (than I'm blind) or no one is working yet on it?
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> fale__: It's being worked on
[19:26] <fale__> JontheEchidna: I see ;). May I ask you in which ppa?
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> it's not in a public PPA yet
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> btw, my rekonq patch got upstreamed
[19:27] <fale__> cool :)
[19:27] <fale__> I'll wait for it, then ;). Btw: didn't knew that there were 'private ppas'..
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah. there are. We only use them when KDE hasn't released the tarballs to the public yet like for KDE releases
[19:32] <fale__> JontheEchidna: shouldn't the tarrbal be released about yesterday?
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> not publicly, I don't believe
[19:32] <ricky_lais> its delayed i think
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> yeah, they only managed to tag it 2 days ago
[19:33] <fale__> I see
[19:33] <fale__> I missed the delayed
[19:41] <fale__> than, I quess, it will be arround the sixth..
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> yeah, either the 6th or 7th would be my guess
[20:56] <on3_g> hi to all
[20:57] <ScottK> Hello on3_g
[20:57] <on3_g> hi Scottk
[20:57] <on3_g> help me please
[20:57] <ScottK> on3_g: Kubuntu help is in #kubuntu
[20:58] <on3_g> for bugs too¿
[20:58] <on3_g> i found one, and i want report it
[21:00] <ScottK> Then report it at bugs.launchpad.net.
[21:00] <ScottK> Then it gets into the normal work flow for bugs.  IRC channels are very poor bug trackers.
[21:01] <on3_g> ScottK: ok thxs
[21:20] <Mamarok> I am a bit puzzled at that dependencies I get from a user: http://wklej.org/id/222924/
[21:21] <Mamarok> why on earth does Amarok 2.2.1 require KDE 4.3.3?
[21:22] <Mamarok> we only depend on Qt 4.3.x since after 2.2.1
[21:24] <Mamarok> Riddell: you are still ops in #kubuntu, even on a holiday?
[21:27] <JontheEchidna> Mamarok: since the amarok packages were built against 4.3.3 they requires KDE 4.3.3
[21:27] <JontheEchidna> *they require
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> the person just needs to update his KDE (he should be able to, as the amarok packages are on the same PPA as 4.3.3)
[21:31] <JontheEchidna> actually... I don't know where he's getting his amarok packages. It doesn't make sense
[21:31] <Mamarok> JontheEchidna: hm, that seems to be the problem, since KDE 4.3.3 is not in that backports PPA anymore
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah. it moved to the regular ppa
[21:32] <Mamarok> it should never have been there, KDE 4.3.4 is in the kubuntu PPA
[21:32] <ScottK> It's only still in backports because I didn't find the web site password yet
[21:32] <Mamarok> well, because I ranted about it
[21:32] <ScottK> I did copy it to updates already
[21:33] <ScottK> That too
[21:33] <Mamarok> apparently he can't get 2.2.1 anymore because of that
[21:33] <Mamarok> funny :(
[21:33] <ScottK> He couldn't have gotten 2.2.1 without 4.3.3 ever.  Have him enable updates and update.
[21:33] <Mamarok> since he didn't have the kubuntu PPA
[21:33] <ScottK> Ah.
[21:34] <Mamarok> ScottK: it was not necessary till this morning
[21:34] <ScottK> Mamarok: It didn't get more necessary today.
[21:34] <ScottK> It's just that before today you always got 4.3.3 withit.
[21:34] <ScottK> withit/with it
[21:34] <Mamarok> ScottK: well, apparently he ran into trouble nonetheless
[21:34] <Mamarok> told him to upgrade to 4.3.4
[21:34] <ScottK> Agreed
[21:35]  * ScottK waves at ryanakca and hopes he'll fix it
[21:35] <ScottK> (making sure the 4.3.3/4 and amarok 2.2.1 announcements on kubuntu.org point to updates PPA and not backports)
[21:35] <Mamarok> so, just so I get it right: KDE updates go to the regular PPA, everything else (Amarok, Koffice) int the backports PPA, right?
[21:36] <Mamarok> and once KDE 4.4 is out, where does that go?
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> no amarok updates should go to the regular ppa too
[21:40] <Mamarok> hm, so Koffice only to the backports?
[21:40] <Mamarok> JontheEchidna: could we have that written down somewhere? I am a bit confused
[21:42] <Mamarok> ScottK: sorry for my rant this morning, BTW, wasn't meant against you, I was just really worried about that mix up
[21:42] <ScottK> Mamarok: It should be written down.  -updates is 3rd digit updates to what's in that release already.  -backports is major versions introduced in a later release.
[21:42] <ScottK> Mamarok: No problem.
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> KDE SC 4.4 would go in -experimental while it's beta, then move to -backports when it's 4.4.0
[21:52] <Mamarok> OK
[22:02] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: I think KDE SC 4.4 beta should go to the backports beta ppa?
[22:03] <neversfelde> but I am not sure, we have to many ppas :)
[22:03] <Mamarok> my point
[22:04] <neversfelde> Mamarok: Amarok is in the backports ppa and not in updates, because there are gui changes, same for koffice afaik
[22:05] <Mamarok> *sigh*
[22:05] <Mamarok> neversfelde: talk to JontheEchidna, he says otherwise
[22:05] <Mamarok> you folks should get that sorted out once and for all, it's a big mess again
[22:06] <Mamarok> neversfelde: there were not that many GUI changes from 2.2 to 2.2.1, I don't see the point, really
[22:07] <neversfelde> Mamarok: there are some changes and they are not translated, so I think it is ok to put it in backports
[22:09] <Mamarok> neversfelde: the point is that apparently the kubuntu developers themselfs are not in agreement what goes where, so please, sort this out ASAP, else we end up in the same mess we had with Intrepid and Jauntxy PPAs
[22:09] <Mamarok> or worse...
[22:09] <Mamarok> thenselves*
[22:09] <Mamarok> -x
[22:09] <Mamarok> ok, got to go, bbl
[22:09] <neversfelde> bye
[22:10] <neversfelde> I think we should delete the experimental ppa or make it private, I got a couple of complaints from people who messed up their system with koffice 2.1 and Qt 4.6
[22:11] <neversfelde> rest should be easy, bugfix releases in updates and other releases in backports, beta packages in beta backports?
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> this is what was decided on the mailing list, though beta and experimental were merged: http://paste.ubuntu.com/333438/
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> Amarok's wacky release policy does make it hard to place
[22:17] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: yes, Riddel said it should go to backports and I think it was a good decision :)
[22:18] <neversfelde> should not be a real problem for the users, everyone who can add the updates ppa can do it with backports, too
[22:31] <Blizzz> what does it take to see kDebug() output on konsole?
[22:31]  * Blizzz is cluelessly hacking some app..
[22:37] <ScottK> neversfelde: I think experimental is fine.  Given how it's labled, such people should just be told to go read the description of the PPA again.
[22:37] <ScottK> At least one person broke their system installing from staging too.
[22:39] <neversfelde> ScottK: you are right. It was probably a mistake to build koffice rc there, we should have used staging.