| === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| === bjf is now known as bjf-afk | ||
| === m4v is now known as mkv | ||
| === richie is now known as Richie | ||
| === YDdraigGoch is now known as Richie | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| === fader|away is now known as fader_ | ||
| zul | morning | 13:52 |
|---|---|---|
| kane_ | o/ | 13:53 |
| nijaba | \o | 13:59 |
| ttx | o/ | 14:00 |
| sommer | hey all | 14:00 |
| mjeanson | hi | 14:00 |
| kane_ | hi there | 14:00 |
| alexm | o/ | 14:00 |
| nijaba | ttx: not sure you noticed, but I just added an item about the server survey on the agenda. | 14:01 |
| smoser | hola | 14:01 |
| ttx | nijaba: I saw that | 14:01 |
| nijaba | ttx: cool, thanks | 14:01 |
| zul | testcase printHelloWorld() | 14:01 |
| zul | print("Hello World!") | 14:01 |
| ttx | soren, mathiaz, mdz: ? | 14:02 |
| mathiaz | o/ | 14:02 |
| soren | Oh, right. | 14:02 |
| ttx | kirkland: ? | 14:02 |
| soren | o/ | 14:02 |
| nijaba | euca-run-instance meeting | 14:02 |
| kirkland | ttx: morning | 14:02 |
| Daviey | \o | 14:02 |
| ttx | xc2 meeting | 14:02 |
| EtienneG_home | for once, I will be hanging around! | 14:02 |
| kirkland | nijaba: -t m1.xlarge | 14:02 |
| soren | cloudctl create ec2 m1.xlarge ami-lets-just-get-on-with-it | 14:03 |
| ttx | ok, let's start | 14:03 |
| zul | EtienneG_home: yay! | 14:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting | 14:03 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is ttx. | 14:03 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 14:03 |
| mdz | ttx, hi | 14:03 |
| ttx | First of all, let me introduce you to Jos Boumans, the new server team engineering manager. | 14:04 |
| kane_ | o/ | 14:04 |
| nijaba | Welcome Jos! | 14:04 |
| * kirkland high fives kane_ | 14:04 | |
| Daviey | hey Jos! | 14:04 |
| ttx | kane_: you didn't force your IRC client to submission yet ? | 14:04 |
| zul | hey kane_ | 14:04 |
| kane_ | ttx: not yet. ran out of CFT my first day @canonical ;) | 14:04 |
| soren | CFT? | 14:04 |
| kane_ | Copious Free Time | 14:05 |
| ttx | kane might become jib in the future on Freenode | 14:05 |
| kane_ | nice to see some familiar faces here from UDS though :) | 14:05 |
| zul | kane_, get use to the lack of thereoff from here on out | 14:05 |
| * mdz hands jib some round tuits | 14:05 | |
| mdz | s/jib/jane_/ | 14:05 |
| mdz | kane_, rather | 14:05 |
| nijaba | no wonders nobody knows what CFT is around here | 14:05 |
| soren | Heheh :) | 14:05 |
| mathiaz | kane_: o^25 | 14:06 |
| ttx | I'll chait this meeting so that Jos sees how it goes, but will gladly hand over the cross to Jos next week :) | 14:06 |
| ttx | chair, even | 14:06 |
| mdz | haha | 14:06 |
| kane_ | i, in turn, am very happy for ttx to chair | 14:06 |
| ttx | next... | 14:06 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting | 14:06 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting | 14:06 |
| ttx | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20091125 | 14:06 |
| ttx | ACTION: ttx to review status of bugs 455625, 460085 and 461156 for any missing info | 14:07 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 455625 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus Loses Public IP Address" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455625 | 14:07 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 460085 in eucalyptus "memory leak; rampart_context not freed (memory leaked per connection)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460085 | 14:07 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 461156 in eucalyptus "User data is not parsed correctly by Eucalyptus in some cases" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461156 | 14:07 |
| ttx | so I reviewed them... the first one is lacking some reproduction, the Eucalyptus team marked it invalid | 14:07 |
| ttx | the second one is missing some feedback from the Eucalyptus team, basically the results of their long-standing rampart tests | 14:07 |
| ttx | The third one is now fixed in Lucid, SRU pending | 14:08 |
| ttx | ACTION: mathiaz to compile a list of easy merges for publication | 14:08 |
| mathiaz | ttx: done - http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/a-selection-of-easy-merges-from-the-ubuntu-server-team/ | 14:08 |
| mdz | mathiaz, did that go out to the mailing list(s) as well? | 14:08 |
| ttx | arh | 14:09 |
| mathiaz | mdz: nope - I could send it there as well | 14:09 |
| mdz | mathiaz, I think it would be useful | 14:09 |
| ttx | mathiaz: I did a few days ago libcommons-attributes-java and libaopalliance-java | 14:09 |
| mdz | dholbach gave us some feedback that we should use the mailing lists more | 14:09 |
| ttx | mathiaz: and I wouldn't recommend the jruby1.2 one to the faint of heart | 14:09 |
| mathiaz | ttx: yeah - that's possible | 14:09 |
| mathiaz | ttx: I haven't looked at all the merge in details | 14:10 |
| ttx | Now on to this week's agenda | 14:10 |
| mathiaz | it's just a list of suggestion - to get people started | 14:10 |
| ttx | [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting | 14:10 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting | 14:10 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Check blueprint status and progress for the week | 14:10 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Check blueprint status and progress for the week | 14:11 |
| ttx | kane_: ? | 14:11 |
| kane_ | We covered most of them during the 1:1s we've had this week, and those that could be approved are. | 14:11 |
| kane_ | There are some that aren't on the alpha2 milestone, and it's on me to have those reviewed by next meeting (before featured definition freeze) | 14:11 |
| mdz | ttx, other-cloud-providers and vmbuilder-multiple-outputs are awaiting review | 14:11 |
| ttx | kane_: what about Feature definition freeze, and the remaining non-lucid-accepted-yet blueprints ? | 14:12 |
| ttx | mdz: Will look into it | 14:12 |
| kane_ | mdz: the other cloud & vmbuilder aren't for alpha2 though, so we should have those done by next week | 14:13 |
| kane_ | the minimum we do for non-alpha2 specs BEFORE feature definition freeze is to make sure we have the summary, rationale & user story in the spec, and any notes we took from UDS | 14:14 |
| kane_ | that way we know what we're comitting to if/when we persue them in the next milestones | 14:14 |
| ttx | kane_: the minimum to make sure we don't lose the results of the UDS session | 14:14 |
| kane_ | ttx: exactly | 14:14 |
| ttx | kane_: ok, what about "Discuss process for ongoing progress tracking" ? | 14:15 |
| kane_ | feel free to summarize that one ttx | 14:16 |
| ttx | We'll use http://www.piware.de/workitems/server/lucid-alpha2/report.html for global tracking | 14:16 |
| ttx | Then for each alpha2 spec do a quick summary of status here ? | 14:17 |
| ttx | We'll skip for this week, unless someone wants to mention they are already raising flags on their assignments | 14:17 |
| kane_ | yeah; there's a few easy ways to do this. I hope to cargo-cult on the other teams starting the next meeting. | 14:17 |
| nijaba | I don't see any of the community BP on this. Normal? | 14:18 |
| nijaba | I think ScottK and ivoks had some | 14:18 |
| ttx | nijaba: They appear on http://www.piware.de/workitems/server/lucid/report.html | 14:18 |
| ttx | they are not specifically targeted to alpha2 (good for them) | 14:19 |
| mathiaz | nijaba: they may not have been targeted for alpha2 though | 14:19 |
| nijaba | ah, ok, sorry | 14:19 |
| ScottK | Still working on drafting. | 14:19 |
| ScottK | Hope to finish shortly. | 14:19 |
| ttx | Anyone has questions on this topic ? | 14:19 |
| mathiaz | ttx: can we add WI to the whiteboard? | 14:19 |
| mathiaz | ttx: what happens if the content of a WI changes? | 14:19 |
| zul | for the canonical-application-support spec what if the packages are not approiate what should i put next to the TODO | 14:20 |
| ttx | mathiaz: you mean if you add new ones, it will look like feature creep on the burndown chart ? | 14:20 |
| mathiaz | ttx: yes | 14:20 |
| mathiaz | ttx: and IIUC this looks bad | 14:20 |
| smoser | good questions mathiaz | 14:20 |
| ttx | mathiaz: the chart will be reset at an arbitrary point in time | 14:20 |
| ttx | i'd suggest FeatureDefinitionFreeze | 14:20 |
| ttx | after that, added items will *really* be feature creep. | 14:21 |
| ttx | kane_, mdz: ^ ? | 14:21 |
| mathiaz | ttx: it seems that the list of WI should not be touched after Feature Definition | 14:21 |
| mdz | I believe pitti planned to reset the chart today-ish | 14:21 |
| ttx | mathiaz: well, it can, but then it really is considered feature creep. | 14:21 |
| kane_ | the WI is a reflection of reality | 14:21 |
| mdz | but of course we can ask him to do it whenever it is appropriate for us | 14:21 |
| mdz | I would say no later than tomorrow | 14:21 |
| mathiaz | ttx: also I'm still tracking next things to do (may be the granularity is too small) | 14:22 |
| kane_ | the tool is there to give us insight, not something that restricts us from planning | 14:22 |
| kane_ | but ttx is right; if there's new (unforeseen) work popping up, that may be feature creep | 14:22 |
| mdz | zul, when you review the package, you should change the "review" work item to "DONE" | 14:22 |
| mdz | zul, if, once you have done that, it turns out there is nothing more to do, you should *delete* the other work items associated with that package | 14:22 |
| mdz | this will reduce the total number of work items in the chart | 14:23 |
| zul | mdz: gotcha | 14:23 |
| ttx | mathiaz: you mean work items are too small ? | 14:23 |
| ttx | mathiaz: not sure I get you | 14:23 |
| mathiaz | ttx: well - I guess I'm using Work Items and Next Action (in GTD) as the same thing | 14:24 |
| mathiaz | ttx: I think I understand myself - and we can move on | 14:24 |
| ttx | I've been translating my work items into GTD next actions | 14:24 |
| ttx | (manually, shame on me) | 14:24 |
| ttx | moving on | 14:24 |
| mathiaz | ttx: same here - but we can discuss this offline | 14:24 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs | 14:24 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs | 14:24 |
| ttx | [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html | 14:24 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html | 14:24 |
| ttx | kane_: ? | 14:25 |
| ttx | nothing assigned to team | 14:25 |
| ttx | too many old bugs in that list to my taste, I think we should review what we should assign ourselves to | 14:26 |
| ttx | but we'll let it be for the moment | 14:26 |
| kirkland | ttx: +1 | 14:26 |
| ttx | shouldn't be the list of things you might work on someday | 14:26 |
| ttx | but rather work in progress and what comes immediately after | 14:26 |
| ttx | but I'm open to discussion | 14:27 |
| ttx | it's just that the list as it stands is not very useful to review | 14:27 |
| kane_ | i have an action point on me to pick this up with marjo; there's an expectation that comes with bug list and i need to be brought up to speed with it | 14:27 |
| zul | it isnt | 14:27 |
| ttx | anyone has comments on the bugs they are assigned to on this list ? Anything blocking ? | 14:27 |
| mathiaz | ttx: the date the bug was assigned is probably useful | 14:27 |
| mathiaz | ttx: to make sure bugs are not aging | 14:28 |
| ttx | We already discussed bug 460085, pending some eucalyptus upstream info | 14:28 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 460085 in eucalyptus "memory leak; rampart_context not freed (memory leaked per connection)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460085 | 14:28 |
| ttx | Nothing else ? OK, let's move on then... | 14:28 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review | 14:29 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Weekly SRU review | 14:29 |
| Daviey | \o/ | 14:29 |
| * ttx leaves the driver seat to mathiaz | 14:29 | |
| ttx | (while the car is still running) | 14:29 |
| mathiaz | http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html | 14:29 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html | 14:29 |
| mathiaz | ^^ any bugs SRU worthy on this list? | 14:30 |
| === robbiew-afk is now known as robbiew | ||
| ttx | only high thing on the list id bug 454405, which is a karmic SRU already | 14:30 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 454405 in eucalyptus "the CC is returning incorrect networkIndex values on describeInstances" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/454405 | 14:30 |
| zul | mathiaz: bug 485760 | 14:31 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 485760 in php5 "Need to upgrade integrated zip module" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485760 | 14:31 |
| kirkland | ttx: what's the plan for rolling/uploading a new SRU candidate of eucalyptus to karmic-proposed? | 14:31 |
| mathiaz | no bugs nominated for dapper, hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic | 14:31 |
| ttx | kirkland: we need to get around the CLEAN=1 thing, then upload | 14:31 |
| ttx | kirkland: please see my comments on the related bugs and let me know what you think | 14:32 |
| kirkland | ttx: i think we should upload, and then get around to the CLEAN=1 thing | 14:32 |
| kirkland | ttx: yes, I'm on top of those | 14:32 |
| mathiaz | hm - there should be bug 489418 | 14:32 |
| kirkland | ttx: i think it's better to have something in -proposed, and work on that incrementally | 14:32 |
| ttx | kirkland: I'm ok for release, I committed to the ubuntu-karmic branch already. | 14:32 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 489418 in krb5 "Strange behavior of libkrb5 since karmic ..." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489418 | 14:32 |
| zul | mathiaz:i just nominated 485760 | 14:33 |
| ttx | kirkland: and wrote the SRU report | 14:33 |
| mathiaz | which means that list of nominated bugs is not accurate :/ | 14:33 |
| kirkland | ttx: okay | 14:33 |
| ttx | kirkland: I wanted to get the feedback on rampart first though | 14:33 |
| ttx | kirkland: but I'm ok either way | 14:33 |
| kirkland | ttx: okay | 14:33 |
| smoser | query ttx | 14:34 |
| ttx | smoser: that's me | 14:34 |
| kirkland | ttx: so the SRU is blocking on the CLEAN=1 bits, and rampart feedback? | 14:34 |
| smoser | yeah, i'm a dolt | 14:34 |
| czajkowski | 14:34 | |
| mathiaz | let's move on | 14:34 |
| mathiaz | http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html | 14:34 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html | 14:34 |
| ttx | kirkland: yes, but that doesn't prevent us from going to -proposed. | 14:35 |
| kirkland | ttx: absolutely agree | 14:35 |
| mathiaz | most of the SRU are related to eucalyptus | 14:35 |
| mathiaz | zul: how are other SRU's going? | 14:36 |
| mathiaz | And the list of bzr branch to review is empty for the server team | 14:36 |
| zul | mathiaz: i havent had a chance to look at them due to spec writing | 14:36 |
| mathiaz | https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+activereviews | 14:36 |
| mathiaz | Anything else on the SRU front? | 14:37 |
| ttx | moving on... | 14:37 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] 2009 Server Survey announce | 14:38 |
| MootBot | New Topic: 2009 Server Survey announce | 14:38 |
| ttx | nijaba: ^ | 14:38 |
| nijaba | I have just announced on Planet Ubuntu the release or the 2009 Server survey http://nicolas.barcet.com/drupal/en/2009-server-survey-announce | 14:38 |
| nijaba | Call for action: | 14:38 |
| nijaba | Last year this survey received a little bit less than 7000 full response and we hope to have at least that many this year. | 14:38 |
| nijaba | In order to do so, it would be very nice that, in addition to the announce I made and the banner that Matt Nuzum is about to put on http://ubuntu.com/server, any of you that can republish the announce on a loco planet or some other means do relay the info in the next couple weeks. So far, the plan is to keep the survey up at least until mid-january. | 14:38 |
| nijaba | I will shortly send an email to the server ML with the same information. | 14:38 |
| nijaba | questions? | 14:39 |
| nijaba | suggestions? | 14:39 |
| ttx | nijaba: any major change in the questions asked ? | 14:39 |
| nijaba | quite a few changes, yes | 14:40 |
| * ttx admits not having completed the survey yet | 14:40 | |
| nijaba | details on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Survey | 14:40 |
| ttx | ok | 14:40 |
| ttx | next is... | 14:40 |
| mathiaz | nijaba: have you send an email to ubuntu-server@? | 14:40 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Open Discussion | 14:41 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Open Discussion | 14:41 |
| nijaba | mathiaz: as I just said, I will shortly send an email to the server ML with the same information. | 14:41 |
| mdz | I believe there is still an open issue regarding the meeting time? | 14:41 |
| ttx | mdz: yes, problematic for kirkland, impossible for nurmi | 14:41 |
| mdz | who has the ball? | 14:41 |
| nijaba | ivoks is complaining that he cannot attend during his work hours | 14:41 |
| ttx | mdz: kirkland hasd to ping maria, I think | 14:41 |
| kirkland | mdz: ttx: yes, I need to talk to maria | 14:42 |
| mdz | maybe jos has some bandwidth to help, and he's in a nearby time zone to maria | 14:42 |
| ttx | mdz: ball is in kirkland side of the field, offense team is up. | 14:42 |
| kirkland | mdz: actually, I was sort of waiting on Jos to come on board, to make sure his availability was taken into account | 14:42 |
| mdz | kirkland also has blueprints to worry about ;-) | 14:42 |
| kane_ | mdz: luckily i don't ;) | 14:43 |
| kane_ | i'm happy to take this on -- i'll talk with kirkland seperately, figure out where it hurts and get a resolution | 14:43 |
| kirkland | kane_: one our later would suffice for both nurmi and i | 14:43 |
| kirkland | s/ our / hour / | 14:43 |
| kane_ | kirkland: understood. that may bite with other calls though, so let's sort it seperately if you don't mind | 14:44 |
| kirkland | kane_: sure thing | 14:44 |
| ttx | Anything else anyone wants to bring up ? | 14:44 |
| Daviey | Spamassassin - 3.3.0 will hit beta "soon", i've emailed the DM to ask if he wants to work together to get the package updated. | 14:44 |
| mathiaz | Daviey: how stable is spamassassin 3.3.0 for an LTS? | 14:45 |
| ttx | mathiaz: kane_ volunteered to write the meeting minutes (since he will write them all soon) so could you get him up to date with the minutes publication process ? | 14:45 |
| mathiaz | ttx: sure | 14:45 |
| * kane_ thinks ttx may be taking this chairing thing very serious ;) | 14:46 | |
| Daviey | mathiaz: well it's still not even beta :).. But for *supporting* the released version - upstream would likely be more receptive for the LTS period. | 14:46 |
| ttx | kane_: let me enjoy that position for the last time :P | 14:46 |
| ttx | [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time | 14:47 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Agree on next meeting date and time | 14:47 |
| ttx | Unless something else is announced, same time, same place, next week. | 14:47 |
| mdz | [action] jos? | 14:47 |
| ttx | [ACTION] jos to find out the best time for the meeting | 14:48 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: jos to find out the best time for the meeting | 14:48 |
| Daviey | (if it is changed, update the fridge) | 14:48 |
| ttx | thanks everyone ! | 14:48 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 14:48 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 08:48. | 14:48 |
| * ttx opens the bar | 14:48 | |
| mdz | just one last thing... | 14:48 |
| kane_ | thanks guys | 14:48 |
| mdz | ttx, kane_ and I went over your blueprints with sabdfl yesterday | 14:49 |
| nijaba | thanks for hosting ttx | 14:49 |
| mdz | and he was very pleased with your work | 14:49 |
| mdz | well done | 14:49 |
| ttx | +1 | 14:49 |
| Daviey | top banana | 14:49 |
| * smoser claps for ttx | 14:49 | |
| kane_ | (you guys)++ | 14:49 |
| smoser | ah. thats funny. i read mdz's statement to say that mdz and kane_ and sabdfl talked about ttx's work | 14:50 |
| * kirkland high fives ttx | 14:50 | |
| ttx | smoser: not.. really. | 14:50 |
| smoser | that "your" == ttx's . anyway. i'll be quiet now | 14:50 |
| kirkland | well done, ttx! | 14:50 |
| soren | Oh, that's what I thought as well. :) | 14:50 |
| alexm | congrats, ttx | 14:50 |
| ttx | well done everyone | 14:51 |
| ttx | stop congratulating me | 14:51 |
| ttx | "<mdz> (ttx, kane_ and I) went over team's blueprints with sabdfl yesterday" | 14:51 |
| smoser | (i'd just like to say, that ttx's work was good, but zul's had one of the best videos *EVER*) | 14:51 |
| zul | wha? | 14:51 |
| ttx | smoser: link | 14:52 |
| kane_ | smoser++ | 14:52 |
| ttx | I remember sabdfl congratulating smoser, though. | 14:52 |
| mdz | ah, sorry I was unclear...I mean "the server team's work" | 14:53 |
| * smoser was trying to make a joke about http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20302940_20304165,00.html | 14:54 | |
| smoser | but should have said "of all time", not "EVER" | 14:54 |
| artir | 14:56 | |
| * nealmcb opens a bleary eye and sees he wasn't up quite early enough for the server team :) | 14:57 | |
| Daviey | early bird catches the worms. | 15:03 |
| mhall119|work | who wants worms anyway? | 15:12 |
| mhall119|work | the late bird gets the brunch specials | 15:12 |
| nealmcb | lol | 15:16 |
| cjwatson | foundations folks? | 16:03 |
| mvo | hi | 16:03 |
| ev | hi | 16:05 |
| * cjwatson works out the list to go round up | 16:05 | |
| cjwatson | sorry I got back a little late | 16:06 |
| cjwatson | robbiew has a schedule conflict, and Keybuk is ill | 16:06 |
| cjwatson | james_w,lool,slangasek: ping? | 16:07 |
| james_w | hi | 16:08 |
| james_w | sorry | 16:08 |
| cjwatson | the only thing I have myself is the imminent feature approval deadline (TOMORROW) | 16:08 |
| james_w | indeed | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | the cronmail whine I get indicates that there are still nine specs without work items | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | foundations-lucid-daily-builds foundations-lucid-fix-iscsi-root foundations-lucid-multiarch-support foundations-lucid-puppet-installer foundations-lucid-ratings-and-reviews-in-software-center foundations-lucid-robust-python-packaging foundations-lucid-upstart-policy foundations-lucid-upstart-server-review foundations-lucid-user-contributed-metadata-for-software-center | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | I've asked mathiaz about foundations-lucid-puppet-installer, and I've asked Keybuk about foundations-lucid-upstart-policy and foundations-lucid-upstart-server-review | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | foundations-lucid-fix-iscsi-root is mine and I'll get it done today | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | so for the remainder: | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | james_w: foundations-lucid-daily-builds | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | slangasek: foundations-lucid-multiarch-support | 16:10 |
| james_w | yes | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | mvo: foundations-lucid-ratings-and-reviews-in-software-center foundations-lucid-robust-python-packaging foundations-lucid-user-contributed-metadata-for-software-center | 16:10 |
| james_w | and I think distributed-development | 16:10 |
| mvo | cjwatson: thanks, I work on that today, the first two are launchpad specs to a certain extend | 16:11 |
| cjwatson | there are some that don't show up in cronmail because they aren't targeted yet, or similar | 16:11 |
| * mvo will add work-items to the best of his knowledge for them | 16:12 | |
| cjwatson | anyway, as Robbie already said, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid?searchtext=foundations is the list of work he has discussed with Mark already | 16:12 |
| cjwatson | if you're planning anything NOT there, please shout ASAP | 16:12 |
| cjwatson | because otherwise we won't be taking it into account for how heavily loaded you are, which is not in your best interest :) | 16:12 |
| lool | (sorry had a phone call at the beginning of the meeting) | 16:13 |
| mvo | mpt wants to have a software-center-ui-changes spec | 16:13 |
| cjwatson | is there a laundry list of proposed changes already? | 16:14 |
| mvo | he has one, but its not written down anywhere yet AFAIK | 16:14 |
| cjwatson | ok, is there any hope of getting it written up by tomorrow? | 16:14 |
| mvo | I told him that the deadline is tomorrow | 16:15 |
| mvo | frankly with the load we have for s-c we will need help on this anyway | 16:15 |
| mvo | from DX or someone else | 16:15 |
| * slangasek waves | 16:15 | |
| mvo | (especially since its not glade file changes) | 16:15 |
| mvo | aha, a volunteer ;) ? | 16:15 |
| cjwatson | mvo: one of the work items probably ought to be going to find dbarth, then. :) | 16:16 |
| tremolux | mpt mentioned to me that he expects to have all updates to the spec finished by tomorrow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=show&redirect=SoftwareStore | 16:16 |
| mvo | heh :) | 16:16 |
| cjwatson | tremolux: OK, that's good, although we'll probably need a broken-out one for the specific changes from karmic->lucid as well | 16:17 |
| cjwatson | unless there's already a section for that | 16:18 |
| mvo | agreed, I think we need to have them as work items | 16:18 |
| tremolux | mvo, cjwatson: right | 16:18 |
| tremolux | just meant it as an fyi :) | 16:19 |
| cjwatson | james_w: you already have WIs for distributed-development, although they don't look complete :) | 16:20 |
| james_w | if only :-) | 16:21 |
| cjwatson | slangasek: foundations-lucid-multiarch-support needs work items written up, if you didn't see that in scrollback; will you have time to do that by the deadline tomorrow? | 16:23 |
| james_w | the distributed development spec is fundamentally carried over from karmic, so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/ImproveDebianImportSpecification mostly applies from last time | 16:23 |
| james_w | should I re-purpose that, or make a new spec? | 16:24 |
| slangasek | cjwatson: yep, will have it done today | 16:24 |
| cjwatson | james_w: re-purposing that is fine | 16:25 |
| james_w | thanks | 16:25 |
| cjwatson | relatedly, http://www.piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid-alpha2/report.html is what we have to do for alpha2 (briefly, I think, things that are critical to product roadmaps) so if there's anything else you believe should be there then please either let robbiew or me know, or just milestone it | 16:26 |
| cjwatson | we'll be tracking pages such as that as we approach each milestone, along with the overall burndown list: http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html | 16:27 |
| cjwatson | that "nobody" dude is a bit oversubscribed right now, so I think some work items need specific assignment :) | 16:27 |
| james_w | specs are targeted, not work items? | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | anyway, that's all I have | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | james_w: correct | 16:28 |
| james_w | ok | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | oh, also, welcome tremolux to the foundations team for this cycle! | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | (I can't remember whether we did that already, so making sure ;-) ) | 16:28 |
| james_w | I'm not sure my specs will fit this scheme too well | 16:28 |
| james_w | welcome tremolux! | 16:28 |
| ev | welcome tremolux! | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | james_w: it's OK to register individual specs pointing to the same wiki pages, FWIW ... | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | although not entirely unconfusing | 16:28 |
| james_w | cjwatson: ah, interesting approach | 16:28 |
| tremolux | thanks! :D very glad to be here | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | you could use anchors | 16:28 |
| mvo | welcome | 16:28 |
| cjwatson | any other business? | 16:29 |
| ev | mvo: Are you comfortable with me assigning the work item for a slideshow in the release upgrader to Dylan McCall? He's expressed a willingness to help create that. | 16:29 |
| * lool hugs tremolux | 16:29 | |
| * tremolux hugs look | 16:29 | |
| tremolux | lool | 16:29 |
| tremolux | (jeez) | 16:29 |
| mvo | ev: sure, that is fine | 16:30 |
| ev | okay cool | 16:30 |
| ScottK | cjwatson: I have one issue. | 16:30 |
| mvo | ev: I'm happy to help him with that too, so that he has a easier time to find his way in the code etc | 16:30 |
| cjwatson | ScottK: go | 16:30 |
| ScottK | Currently qt4-x11 is FTBFS on armel due to an internal compiler error | 16:30 |
| * cjwatson looks up the log | 16:31 | |
| ScottK | Debugging armel compiler bugs is a bit beyond the community to do. | 16:31 |
| cjwatson | I wonder if that's another of the -minternal-it=thumb bugs? | 16:31 |
| lool | I'd poke the mobile team, specifically NCommander was looking into kde-ish/qt-ish issues in the past | 16:31 |
| cjwatson | asac: ^- do you know what's going on there? | 16:31 |
| ScottK | It would be useful if we could get this fixed sooner rather than later as we can't really do anything towards getting KDE building on armel until it's fixed. | 16:31 |
| ScottK | lool: I already poked NCommander. He saw it was an ICE and ran. | 16:32 |
| ev | mvo: cool, I'll let him know | 16:32 |
| cjwatson | cjwatson@jocote:~$ dchroot -c lucid | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | dchroot: pthread_mutex_lock.c:87: __pthread_mutex_lock: Assertion `mutex->__data.__owner == 0' failed. | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | Aborted | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | ^- doesn't help | 16:33 |
| lool | cjwatson: Yes, implicit-it= might help indeed | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | lamont: ^- is there any reasonable way to get at an armel lucid chroot right now? | 16:33 |
| lool | cjwatson: Where is this on? | 16:33 |
| lool | Hmm v7 porter machine | 16:34 |
| lool | (I was wondering whether it might have been the older v5 one) | 16:34 |
| ScottK | I know doko_ was on vacation last week and is sick now, but I wanted to highlight it as a significant foundations issue that we need some help on. | 16:34 |
| cjwatson | I am aware that a number of architectures have similar problems | 16:34 |
| cjwatson | ScottK: noted - I'll minute it and see what we can do about it. Thanks | 16:34 |
| ScottK | cjwatson: Thanks. | 16:34 |
| asac | cjwatson: try LANG=C dchroot ... | 16:35 |
| asac | thats the workaround | 16:35 |
| === mac_v_ is now known as mac_v | ||
| lool | ScottK: Not sure that's the issue, but the syntax of ARM assembly source changed, one compiler flag tells gas to parse the old style syntax -Wa,-implicit-it=thumb | 16:35 |
| asac | afaik qt/kde issues are not only thumb | 16:35 |
| cjwatson | asac: ah, thank you | 16:36 |
| asac | but its on our list to evaluate | 16:36 |
| cjwatson | except not | 16:36 |
| doko_ | yes, I'll add this for the next upload, but the glib issue is unrelated to that | 16:36 |
| asac | ack | 16:37 |
| cjwatson | LC_ALL=C LANGUAGE= dchroot ... # same thing | 16:37 |
| asac | hmm | 16:37 |
| asac | LANG=C dchroot -clucid | 16:37 |
| asac | I: [lucid chroot] Running login shell: '/bin/bash' | 16:37 |
| asac | (lucid)asac@jocote:~$ | 16:37 |
| cjwatson | ah, -clucid rather than -c lucid works | 16:37 |
| cjwatson | grr | 16:37 |
| asac | ;) | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | (it still aborts on logout, but hey) | 16:38 |
| ogra | cjwatson, its pretty sure one of the -minternal-it=thumb bugs | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | I'll test that out | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | AOB? | 16:39 |
| ScottK | We're close to uploading qt4-x11 4.6.0 final, so any arch specific compiler flags to try, please just let me know. | 16:39 |
| lool | Hmm no specific assembly in the source, it might not be implicit-it-thumb after all :-/ | 16:39 |
| ogra | lool, the log seems to fail with assembler stuff | 16:40 |
| cjwatson | well, look, this is easily determined experimentally, we don't have to argue it from theory :) | 16:40 |
| lool | Actually I think it's a compiler internal structure, anyway #ubuntu-arm | 16:41 |
| lamont | cjwatson: LANG=C | 16:41 |
| lamont | just not sure what package to file the bug against... | 16:42 |
| ogra | lamont, you forgot to say your macro "patches accepted" ;) | 16:42 |
| lamont | LANG=C dchroot is fine, fwiw | 16:42 |
| cjwatson | anyway, end of meeting, I think we're done | 16:42 |
| cjwatson | thanks all | 16:42 |
| lamont | ogra: that was sepcial for you | 16:42 |
| ogra | ah :) | 16:42 |
| slangasek | thanks, folks | 16:42 |
| * ogra feels special now :) | 16:42 | |
| lool | ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.4/+bug/490391 | 16:43 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 490391 in gcc-4.4 "GCC internal error (unrecognizable insn ...) building qt4-x11 for Thumb-2 on armel" [Undecided,New] | 16:43 |
| lool | (It's definitely thumb specific though) | 16:43 |
| ScottK | OK. So should I add -Wa,-implicit-it=thumb for armel for our next upload? This armel stuff is pretty well greek to me. | 16:45 |
| ogra | ScottK, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 might help a little | 16:45 |
| cjwatson | ScottK: I'm going to test that out nowish | 16:46 |
| ScottK | cjwatson: Thanks. | 16:46 |
| === dyfet` is now known as dyfet | ||
| * marjo waves | 16:58 | |
| * ara waves | 16:58 | |
| pedro_ | hola! | 16:59 |
| * fagan waves | 16:59 | |
| bdmurray | hey | 16:59 |
| * fader_ waves. | 16:59 | |
| sbeattie | hey | 16:59 |
| marjo | fagan: glad you can join us | 16:59 |
| davmor2 | hello | 16:59 |
| * fagan remembered this time :D | 16:59 | |
| marjo | #startmeeting QA Team | 17:00 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo. | 17:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 17:00 |
| marjo | Agenda: | 17:00 |
| marjo | * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) | 17:00 |
| marjo | * Bugday highlights -- pedro | 17:00 |
| marjo | * QA mailing list -- fader | 17:00 |
| marjo | Anybody want to add to the agenda? | 17:00 |
| marjo | [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) | 17:01 |
| MootBot | New Topic: SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) | 17:01 |
| sbeattie | SRU activity has slowed about, perhaps due to the US holiday last week. | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2009-11-24): | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | * karmic: 11 new packages in -proposed (app-install-data-partner, conduit, devicekit-disks, evolution-indicator, iriverter, linux-firmware, muse, openafs, samba, telepathy-gabble, xorg-server) and 10 pushed to -updates (deja-dup, eucalyptus, gdm, kdeedu, kdeplasma-addons, treeline, tzdata, uim, ureadahead, xorg) | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (conduit, openafs) and 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata) | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (pidgin) and 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata) | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | * hardy: 2 packages pushed to -updates (sun-java6, tzdata) | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | * dapper: 1 package pushed to -updates (langpack-locales) | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | Thanks to Morten Frisch, bluenibor, VPablo, Alastair Carey, Mario Limonciello, Pjotr12345, Steve Dodier, Zaar Hai, Evan Broder, Fabrice Coutadeur, Philip Muskovac, and Jonathan Thomas for testing proposed updates. | 17:02 |
| sbeattie | That's all I have on the topic for this week. | 17:04 |
| marjo | sbeattie: thx | 17:04 |
| marjo | [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- pedro | 17:04 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Bugday highlights -- pedro | 17:04 |
| pedro_ | Tomorrow we're having our first Bug Day after coming back from UDS | 17:05 |
| pedro_ | the target will be Ubuntu Translations https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091203 | 17:05 |
| pedro_ | Thanks a lot to Victor Vargas (aka Kamusin) who organized mostly all of it | 17:05 |
| marjo | Kamusin: thx! | 17:05 |
| pedro_ | Next Week we're having a Compiz bug day and we are looking for more hands to organize it | 17:06 |
| pedro_ | so if you have some time and want to learn how to organize a bug day just drop your name on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning | 17:06 |
| pedro_ | also if you have some ideas about the next target don't be shy and add it to that page as well | 17:07 |
| * fagan will volunteer next week busy with college | 17:07 | |
| pedro_ | fagan, awesome! thanks | 17:07 |
| pedro_ | marjo, that's all from here | 17:07 |
| marjo | fagan: thx; glad to know you have the right priorities! | 17:07 |
| fader_ | marjo: I thought the right priorities were QA > sleep > food > studying | 17:08 |
| fader_ | :) | 17:08 |
| pedro_ | sleep? food? what for? | 17:08 |
| pedro_ | :-P | 17:08 |
| fader_ | Hehe | 17:08 |
| marjo | fader_: we need to talk privately :) for me to give you some needed advice | 17:08 |
| fagan | for me is food>college assignments>classes>everything else :D | 17:08 |
| marjo | [TOPIC] QA mailing list -- fader | 17:09 |
| MootBot | New Topic: QA mailing list -- fader | 17:09 |
| fader_ | So with our recent discussions around transparency and involving the community more, I have realized we don't have a good venue to discuss general QA topics | 17:09 |
| fader_ | There is a QA team mailing list on LP, but it seems to be older and has some entry requirements: | 17:10 |
| fader_ | (And I lost the URL, hang on :) ) | 17:10 |
| fader_ | https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa | 17:10 |
| marjo | fader_ : lack of sleep... | 17:10 |
| fader_ | stgraber is the owner of this, so I was hoping he might be able to tell us a bit about the rationale behind it being somewhat restricted | 17:10 |
| fader_ | And to see if anyone else thinks it would be useful to have a general QA mailing list to discuss what needs tested and how to improve practices | 17:11 |
| bdmurray | I was looking at this last week or so | 17:11 |
| davmor2 | ubuntu-qa@lists.ubuntu.com this one you mean | 17:11 |
| ara | fader_, the team is moderated, but the list is open https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-qa | 17:11 |
| fader_ | ara: Ah, I interpreted the team being moderated to mean the list was as well, thanks | 17:11 |
| bdmurray | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2008-July/000166.html | 17:12 |
| marjo | fader_ : so no need for yet another mailing list, right? | 17:12 |
| fader_ | Is this something we can/should point people to when they are interested in helping to test Ubuntu? I'd be happy to help point people there and make announcements as we need tests | 17:12 |
| marjo | fader_: yes, please | 17:12 |
| davmor2 | marjo: no just utilise the one we already have :D | 17:12 |
| fader_ | marjo: I'd say no, assuming everyone is happy using this existing list | 17:12 |
| fagan | isnt it because we own the sru tools | 17:12 |
| marjo | that should be part of our community outreach for testing | 17:13 |
| fader_ | Excellent, I'll send people there whenever they look like they can be tricked into helping us test. :D | 17:13 |
| ara | for the testing team we are going to have ubuntu-testing mailing list | 17:13 |
| marjo | ok, so from now on, we will use that list to get the word out to a broad audience | 17:14 |
| fader_ | ara: What is the goal of that list? How is it going to be different from the QA team list? | 17:14 |
| marjo | ara: can't you also announce to the qa list we're talking about? more, the merrier, no? | 17:14 |
| fagan | Id like to have one main list rather than a QA list and a testing list | 17:14 |
| fader_ | +1, unless ara has a legitimate reason to split the two | 17:15 |
| ara | I wanted to have a sense of team, as the bugsquad. ubuntu-testing for team discussions | 17:15 |
| fagan | Fragmentation is bad when the teams are small | 17:15 |
| marjo | fagan: i'm thinking of the QA list as covering a broader audience, while the testing list is for testing only | 17:15 |
| marjo | fagan: but we want to expand the community from small to bigger | 17:16 |
| fader_ | Is there anyone interested in the QA list that would not be interested in testing? | 17:16 |
| * fagan doesnt think so | 17:16 | |
| marjo | i ASSume QA list > testing list, no? | 17:16 |
| fader_ | I'd hate to have to join two lists and post/see the same information twice :) | 17:16 |
| marjo | fader_: oic | 17:16 |
| fagan | I think we should revisit it when the testing team gets bigger | 17:16 |
| fader_ | Again, maybe I'm missing a use-case, but I agree with fagan on this one | 17:17 |
| ara | fader_, but, again, we can keep ubuntu-testing as internal discussion of the team | 17:17 |
| fagan | Most of us are on IRC anyway | 17:17 |
| fagan | I see ara's point though | 17:17 |
| ara | fader_, not for announcements, but for things like, who is going to update the wiki for blah, blah, blah | 17:18 |
| fader_ | Ahh, I see -- so have the QA list be very general for announcements and such, but the 'real work' gets done on the testing list? | 17:18 |
| ara | fader_, the testing work yes | 17:18 |
| fagan | Sure then | 17:19 |
| marjo | i thot one of the problems we were trying to solve was to announce things like ISO testing and want to reach a broad audience? | 17:19 |
| fader_ | ara: I see. That sounds reasonable :) I'd still personally vote for starting with one list and splitting off a second if it's needed, but I won't fight too hard. :) | 17:19 |
| marjo | therefore, use the QA list in addition to testing list | 17:19 |
| sbeattie | marjo: sure, that's a typical thing to announce. | 17:19 |
| fagan | +1 then too | 17:20 |
| fader_ | marjo: My worry is that anyone who will do ISO testing needs to be on the testing list anyway, to coordinate | 17:20 |
| marjo | fader_ : yes, of course | 17:20 |
| sbeattie | personally, I'd like to see the QA team list get more discussion traffic as well. | 17:20 |
| marjo | so, your concern is the dup of info, right? | 17:20 |
| fader_ | marjo: So basically, everyone has to be on both lists anyway, right? That's what I'm trying to avoid, having two lists that are interdependent; why have them? | 17:21 |
| ara | I don't mind using ubuntu-qa list, I just prefer the -testing term :) | 17:21 |
| fader_ | Heh so maybe a name change is in order :) | 17:21 |
| ara | fader_, no, no worries | 17:21 |
| ara | fader_, if it is going to be a testing discussion on it, ubuntu-qa seems good to me | 17:22 |
| marjo | ara: if that's the case, let's just use ubuntu-qa list | 17:22 |
| davmor2 | Very quickly I think the ubuntu-qa mailing list was one of laserjocks implementations to improve qa involvement | 17:22 |
| marjo | davmor2: well then we've just rediscovered the original intent which remains the same today! | 17:22 |
| marjo | brilliant! | 17:22 |
| ara | davmor2, yes, but now it is just a list of mails from people asking for CDs :D | 17:22 |
| sbeattie | davmor2: the list predated the team, the team was the "improve involvement" bit. | 17:22 |
| davmor2 | ubuntu-testing ties into the main irc channel etc so it might be better to drop the qa in favour of the general testing | 17:23 |
| marjo | davmor2: no! | 17:23 |
| fader_ | davmor2: Or use #ubuntu-quality more :) | 17:23 |
| fagan | davmor2: QA is the umbrella for testing | 17:23 |
| marjo | to me, QA includes bug management and testing | 17:24 |
| marjo | fagan: agree! | 17:24 |
| fader_ | At any rate, I think there is agreement that we should at least be using the list we have now, and that we might need a second one in the future. I propose that we try to use the existing list and encourage people to sign up for it and discuss this further on-list as warranted. | 17:24 |
| fagan | fader_: +1 | 17:25 |
| * fader_ hustles off to sign up for the mailing list. | 17:25 | |
| marjo | fader_: just to be sure, what "list we have now" are you proposing? | 17:25 |
| fader_ | marjo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-qa | 17:25 |
| fagan | ubuntu-qa marjo | 17:25 |
| marjo | ok, so the decision is: | 17:26 |
| marjo | Continue to use: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-qa for QA related announcements and discussions | 17:26 |
| marjo | everyone agree? | 17:26 |
| cr3 | +1 | 17:26 |
| fader_ | +1 | 17:26 |
| fagan | but we have to promote the list too | 17:26 |
| davmor2 | +1 | 17:27 |
| ara | +1 | 17:27 |
| fagan | +1 | 17:27 |
| fader_ | fagan: Definitely! :) | 17:27 |
| on3_g | +1 | 17:27 |
| bdmurray | +1 | 17:27 |
| schwuk | +1 | 17:27 |
| sbeattie | +1 | 17:27 |
| pedro_ | +1 | 17:27 |
| marjo | fagan: yes, i think that was a major part of the problem; no promotion of the list, so it was not well used | 17:27 |
| marjo | anything else on this topic? | 17:28 |
| * fagan puts a planet post about the ubuntu-qa team on his todo list | 17:28 | |
| fader_ | marjo: Not from me; I'm happy. | 17:28 |
| fader_ | fagan: Good idea; I'll blog about it as well. | 17:28 |
| marjo | fader_: thx for bringing it up and taking the lead | 17:28 |
| fader_ | np | 17:28 |
| marjo | wow, such a lively discussion | 17:29 |
| marjo | i love it! | 17:29 |
| marjo | ok, any new topics for today? | 17:29 |
| davmor2 | fader_, schwuk: should there be a quick link to the mailing list from the main ubuntu-qa page if there isn't one | 17:29 |
| === DKcross is now known as TDKcross | ||
| fagan | I think for the launchpad team we should keep it moderated and maybe make a new team for beginners | 17:29 |
| fader_ | davmor2: There's not now AFAIK... | 17:29 |
| fagan | Like what the docs team did a while back | 17:30 |
| on3_g | fagan: +1 | 17:30 |
| schwuk | davmor2: ok | 17:30 |
| davmor2 | it'll help promote it with a minimum of work | 17:30 |
| fader_ | fagan: That might be a good topic to discuss on-list, as maybe someone can fill me in on the purpose of the group(s) there :) | 17:31 |
| on3_g | i think info for beginners is poor | 17:31 |
| marjo | fagan: can you please remind us of what the "docs team did"? | 17:31 |
| fader_ | on3_g: +1 | 17:31 |
| marjo | folks: remember one of the outcomes at UDS was: | 17:31 |
| * kamusin on3_g +1 | 17:32 | |
| marjo | make it simple for the community to get involved, step 1, 2, 3... | 17:32 |
| on3_g | and info for another distro flavors like xubuntu and kubuntu (especially) too | 17:32 |
| fagan | Well the documentations team has two parts the main team thats open and the commiters team for really active people it gives new contributes something to aim for | 17:32 |
| marjo | fagan: oic | 17:32 |
| on3_g | marjo: +1 | 17:33 |
| marjo | and they find it to be effective? | 17:33 |
| fagan | Yep | 17:33 |
| fagan | Plus the moderated team can own SRU tools..etc | 17:34 |
| ara | in any case, I would keep the testing team for people willing to test | 17:34 |
| fagan | ara: thats a given | 17:34 |
| marjo | ara: agree | 17:34 |
| ScottK | Generally I think it would be good if the QA team considers itself working on Ubuntu the project, not just Ubuntu the distro. | 17:34 |
| ScottK | That would encompass the other flavors as well (even if they get less resources from Canonical) | 17:35 |
| fagan | ScottK: we do test kubuntu and xubuntu as well | 17:35 |
| ScottK | fagan: I'm aware | 17:35 |
| === TDKcross is now known as DKcross | ||
| ScottK | It's just that when you say it's the Ubuntu QA team, think of Ubuntu the project, not Ubuntu the distro. | 17:36 |
| davmor2 | ScottK: I don't but I only had time to rewrite the ubuntu desktop/installer/server testing docs so none really exist for kubuntu etc yet :( | 17:36 |
| on3_g | fagan: but all the info is related to ubuntu the distro | 17:36 |
| fagan | on3_g: well im sure I saw on qa.ubuntu.com kubuntu isos to be tested | 17:37 |
| davmor2 | on3_g: see above | 17:38 |
| on3_g | fagan: that's rigth but, is not just about iso testing | 17:38 |
| marjo | on3_g: the charter for the QA team is: | 17:39 |
| marjo | The Ubuntu QA team is focused on developing tools, policies, and practices for ensuring Ubuntu's quality as a distribution as well as providing general advice, oversight, and leadership of QA activities within the Ubuntu project. | 17:39 |
| fagan | I thought kde upstream has a very extensive qa process | 17:40 |
| * fagan has got to go for dinner but will pick up the logs from the rest of the meeting | 17:41 | |
| fader_ | Maybe improving some of these test cases would be a good starting point for people looking to help but who don't know where to start. | 17:41 |
| davmor2 | 1 query I have about upgrades dapper is pretty much coming to end of support isn't it should we be looking at doing upgrade from dapper-server to hardy-server aswell as hardy->lucid? | 17:42 |
| on3_g | marjo: ok | 17:43 |
| sbeattie | davmor2: yes, that's part of the LTS upgrade testing plan | 17:43 |
| marjo | fader_ agree | 17:44 |
| sbeattie | davmor2: at least, walking through dapper -> hardy -> lucid, and finding issues anywhere along the path. | 17:44 |
| bdmurray | and we can start dapper to hardy testing now! ;-) | 17:44 |
| sbeattie | indeed! That's another excellent place for people to start. | 17:45 |
| davmor2 | sbeattie: I just meant ensuring that dapper would upgrade to hardy still and separate hardy->lucid tests. Being as if a user is still on dapper it's for a reason so they'll probably only want to upgrade to hardy rather than lucid | 17:46 |
| marjo | davmor2: you're probably right, so we should take that into account | 17:47 |
| marjo | for the upgrades test matrix | 17:47 |
| marjo | i think we have to be smart about upgrades testing because of the potentially humongous problem space | 17:49 |
| marjo | yet, aim for largest possible test coverage | 17:49 |
| davmor2 | sbeattie: maybe me and you can get together tomorrow afternoon (for me) morning (for you) and trash out a plan? | 17:50 |
| ScottK | One problem we had Dapper -> Hardy was that most of the testing was done on Main upgrades, but Universe packages failing can affect the overall upgrade success. | 17:50 |
| marjo | ScottK: yes, that's part of the being smart concept | 17:51 |
| ScottK | Right, just mentioning it since a lot of the people here weren't around then. | 17:51 |
| on3_g | davmor2: for begginers something like http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove wil be great | 17:51 |
| marjo | the challenge is to plan ahead of time which paths to take | 17:51 |
| sbeattie | davmor2: I unfortunately have conflicts tomorrow, but perhaps we can take it to email? I do want to explore this. | 17:51 |
| davmor2 | sbeattie: no worries dude | 17:51 |
| marjo | ok, folks, we're down to 8 minutes | 17:52 |
| marjo | we should continue this sort of discussion as we solidify test plans for lucid | 17:52 |
| marjo | folks: anything else for today? | 17:53 |
| marjo | if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting | 17:54 |
| fader_ | Just a reminder that A1 is next week... get ready for testing! | 17:54 |
| davmor2 | not here | 17:54 |
| davmor2 | working iso's would be good for that :) | 17:54 |
| fader_ | davmor2: agreed :) | 17:55 |
| marjo | going once | 17:55 |
| marjo | twice | 17:55 |
| marjo | meeting adjourned | 17:55 |
| marjo | thx everyone for your participation! | 17:56 |
| cr3 | cheerio folks! | 17:56 |
| ara | thanks! | 17:56 |
| marjo | see you next week | 17:56 |
| fader_ | Thanks all! | 17:56 |
| sbeattie | thanks, everyone! | 17:56 |
| marjo | #endmeeting | 17:56 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 11:56. | 17:56 |
| davmor2 | thanks all | 17:56 |
| === fader_ is now known as fader|lunch | ||
| === nik0 is now known as niko | ||
| === fader|lunch is now known as fader_ | ||
| popey | BONG! | 20:00 |
| jcastro | woo | 20:00 |
| popey | LoCo Council meeting time | 20:00 |
| keffie_jayx | :D | 20:00 |
| JanC | ☺ | 20:00 |
| nizarus | oh the big BONG :) | 20:00 |
| huats | popey, I am :) | 20:00 |
| popey | czajkowski / huats / itnet7 Welcome! - new members of the Ubuntu LoCo Council! | 20:01 |
| huats | popey, thanks ! | 20:01 |
| itnet7 | Thanks! | 20:01 |
| czajkowski | thank you :) | 20:01 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda is our agenda | 20:01 |
| popey | Ready to begin? | 20:02 |
| huats | popey, I am around at the beginning while I am eating | 20:02 |
| === RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx | ||
| huats | .. | 20:02 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact/ProposedAddition | 20:02 |
| huats | but I am ok | 20:02 |
| popey | Proposed addition to the loco team contact as clarification.. anyone got any comments about that? | 20:02 |
| popey | This came about after we discovered some LoCo teams actively _discouraged_ communication between the LoCo Contacts list and their own LoCo | 20:03 |
| popey | we want to discourage that discouragement :) | 20:03 |
| czajkowski | indeed! | 20:03 |
| huats | :) | 20:04 |
| itnet7 | I think it's a great action! | 20:04 |
| itnet7 | and really should have went without saying! | 20:04 |
| itnet7 | :-) | 20:04 |
| JanC | loco contacts can decide if something is not useful for their team maybe, but all important info should be forwarded | 20:04 |
| popey | yeah, thats trickey, deciding what's important | 20:05 |
| popey | I propose that we add that to the wiki, then announce it on loco-contacts. | 20:05 |
| nizarus | JanC, I'm a loco contact and that's what I'm doing | 20:05 |
| czajkowski | you could also encourage your loco team members to join the list. | 20:05 |
| popey | huats / czajkowski / itnet7 / keffie_jayx / JanC - +1 or -1 on the change? | 20:06 |
| czajkowski | +1 | 20:06 |
| itnet7 | +1 | 20:06 |
| JanC | +1 | 20:06 |
| huats | +1 | 20:06 |
| keffie_jayx | +1 | 20:06 |
| popey | \o/ | 20:06 |
| keffie_jayx | excellent | 20:06 |
| czajkowski | lovely jubbly | 20:06 |
| popey | Next we have "Introducing new members"... | 20:07 |
| popey | czajkowski / huats / itnet7 - Welcome again - want to give us one line about yourself for the minutes? | 20:07 |
| huats | (it might be better for me to get it last) | 20:08 |
| czajkowski | Aloha, I'm laura, based in Dublin Ireland and looking forward to getting involved in the loco council and helping where I can | 20:08 |
| popey | \o/ czajkowski | 20:08 |
| * itnet7 is team contact for FloridaTeam and glad to be here!!! | 20:08 | |
| popey | \o/ itnet7 | 20:08 |
| itnet7 | :-) | 20:08 |
| huats | OK so, I am Christophe, a french little guy and I am really really hapy to be amongst you all :) | 20:09 |
| popey | you are _so_ not little! | 20:09 |
| huats | (even jono ;)) | 20:09 |
| czajkowski | hardly little | 20:09 |
| popey | \o/ huats | 20:09 |
| itnet7 | lol ;-P | 20:09 |
| czajkowski | ^5 itnet7 huats :) | 20:09 |
| popey | I'm working on getting you guys on the mailing list | 20:09 |
| huats | thanks popey | 20:09 |
| keffie_jayx | he is the one from the 5000-attendee parties organized by the frech teams | 20:09 |
| popey | sorry it's not happened already | 20:09 |
| jono | hey huats | 20:09 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: you mean 20,000 attendees! | 20:09 |
| popey | (that number increases every time I see it) | 20:10 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: right right 5000 is only in his home bash | 20:10 |
| huats | popey, ;) | 20:10 |
| popey | Ok, next keffie_jayx you have "Reproval process progress" on the agenda.. | 20:10 |
| keffie_jayx | right... | 20:10 |
| huats | keffie_jayx, actually my hometown party is this weekend but it won't be that big :) | 20:10 |
| czajkowski | huats: only 500 :) | 20:11 |
| hollman | Hello all | 20:11 |
| huats | czajkowski, that is the aim :) | 20:11 |
| keffie_jayx | so as we know, we have been working on getting a reapproval process in the life of LoCo Teams to learn more from you and offer assessment | 20:11 |
| keffie_jayx | we declared some actions at the meet up at UDS | 20:11 |
| czajkowski | yes I've the action of writing this up :) | 20:11 |
| keffie_jayx | it is sane to seewere we stand with regards the reaproval process. | 20:12 |
| popey | ok | 20:12 |
| popey | I just grabbed the list out of gobby and pasted onto the wiki.. | 20:12 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/ProposedTeamApprovalList | 20:12 |
| popey | I haven't checked the sanity of that list (my action - will do asap) | 20:12 |
| JanC | shit, we're on top ;) | 20:12 |
| itnet7 | JanC: we're not far below you | 20:13 |
| popey | JanC: no editing of the wiki and moving yourself! | 20:13 |
| popey | :) | 20:13 |
| nizarus | tunisian team is missing | 20:13 |
| popey | nizarus: no, it's not | 20:13 |
| huats | JanC, and we are not on the list :( | 20:13 |
| popey | nizarus: it's the _re_ approval list | 20:13 |
| keffie_jayx | nizarus: many teams are missing ;) | 20:13 |
| keffie_jayx | this is only 30 | 20:13 |
| keffie_jayx | out of 60 something | 20:13 |
| JanC | nizarus: you were approved or reapproved not that long ago IIRC? | 20:13 |
| nizarus | popey, i know we should be reapproved on july | 20:14 |
| popey | not necessarily nizarus | 20:14 |
| nizarus | JanC, we was approved on july 2008 | 20:14 |
| popey | teams will be reapproved when we get to them | 20:14 |
| popey | it might not be july | 20:14 |
| popey | but we'll let you know in advance :) | 20:14 |
| nizarus | okay | 20:14 |
| popey | ok, so keffie_jayx outstanding things are a) czajkowski documenting and b) me sanitising that list? | 20:15 |
| czajkowski | yup | 20:15 |
| keffie_jayx | no | 20:15 |
| popey | oh? | 20:15 |
| czajkowski | oh? | 20:15 |
| keffie_jayx | also, make sure awareness of this process happnes | 20:15 |
| popey | ok, but we can't do that till it's documented surely? | 20:15 |
| czajkowski | well that'll surely happence once A is done and the mailed out ? | 20:15 |
| keffie_jayx | exactly | 20:15 |
| czajkowski | popey: great minds! | 20:15 |
| popey | czajkowski: .. drink guinness | 20:16 |
| czajkowski | I have sense ;) | 20:16 |
| keffie_jayx | also decide on the schedules for each teams, would be nice | 20:16 |
| keffie_jayx | makes sense? | 20:16 |
| czajkowski | yup | 20:16 |
| popey | ok so 1) document, 2) publicise 3) schedule, 4) ?? 5) profit! | 20:16 |
| czajkowski | 5) choclate :D white choclate and JanC is 1st on the list :p | 20:17 |
| huats | czajkowski, 6) share that chocolate | 20:17 |
| czajkowski | popey: keffie_jayx is this document started somwhere, or based on a document ? | 20:17 |
| huats | :) | 20:17 |
| czajkowski | huats: eh no :) | 20:17 |
| popey | I don't know.. keffie_jayx ? | 20:18 |
| keffie_jayx | czajkowski: it is only word of moth and some documentation is already available in gobby | 20:18 |
| keffie_jayx | like the emailing process | 20:18 |
| JanC | I'm happy to buy 1 kg of chocolate to share on FOSDEM :P | 20:18 |
| popey | Ok, I can work with czajkowski on that | 20:18 |
| czajkowski | grand job | 20:18 |
| keffie_jayx | also | 20:18 |
| keffie_jayx | we agreed on doing this in meetings | 20:19 |
| popey | doing what? | 20:19 |
| popey | the re-approvals? | 20:19 |
| keffie_jayx | oposed to emailing the reaproval proposals no? | 20:19 |
| popey | we did? | 20:20 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: I though we had decided that emailingwas not working, but then again I might have misheard | 20:20 |
| popey | ah ok | 20:20 |
| huats | keffie_jayx, don't you think it will be really long in meeting | 20:20 |
| huats | from my understanding (at the previous UDS) | 20:21 |
| popey | no, we decided to mail the teams 3 times | 20:21 |
| JanC | I think in the past we agreeded that reapproval through mail if possible would make meetings shorter | 20:21 |
| popey | to let them know they're up for approval | 20:21 |
| popey | give them a month to reply/prepare and attend an online meeting | 20:21 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: and they email the reapproval aplication and that is it? | 20:21 |
| popey | if they don't turn up they get unapproved | 20:21 |
| keffie_jayx | ok | 20:21 |
| JanC | and teams could appeal during a public meeting if they don't agree with a decision | 20:21 |
| popey | yup | 20:21 |
| keffie_jayx | ok | 20:21 |
| popey | during a meeting is what we agreed | 20:22 |
| popey | the key thing is getting them to the meeting | 20:22 |
| popey | we need to word the mails carefully | 20:22 |
| popey | but firmly :) | 20:22 |
| keffie_jayx | definetelly, sorry for making you lose time | 20:22 |
| JanC | okay then | 20:22 |
| huats | popey, I agree | 20:22 |
| popey | no, it's fine, we all need to be on the same page | 20:22 |
| popey | so as part of the documentation we can come up with a template mail | 20:22 |
| popey | Dear $LOCO | 20:23 |
| czajkowski | that'd make sense | 20:23 |
| popey | Turn up or else. | 20:23 |
| popey | Love Loco council! | 20:23 |
| huats | but I think that if we just say the truth : a reapproval is not a blame but a normal process... | 20:23 |
| popey | yup huats | 20:23 |
| czajkowski | aye and point out, every loco at some point or another will go through this process | 20:23 |
| popey | yup | 20:23 |
| huats | popey, or your mail + asking for 1 kg of chocolate each :) | 20:23 |
| popey | :) | 20:23 |
| popey | I am easily bribed | 20:23 |
| popey | just putting that out there | 20:24 |
| popey | ok, so czajkowski and I will make a start on the documents, and run that past the mailing list okay? | 20:24 |
| popey | (loco-council) | 20:24 |
| popey | so everyone gets a chance to contribute | 20:24 |
| popey | and we'll also pass it by jono/jorge to make sure we're not doing anything dumb | 20:24 |
| czajkowski | heh smart move | 20:25 |
| === hibana_ is now known as hibana | ||
| popey | is that all we need to say about reapproval for now? | 20:25 |
| itnet7 | does anyone think it would save time to look at the lists of re-approvals, and evaluate the teams by a loco council vote, on whether or not a team needs to do their re-approval in a meeting? | 20:25 |
| czajkowski | when do we hope to start | 20:25 |
| itnet7 | and for those teams that are spot-on, we can do it through mail | 20:26 |
| popey | itnet7: what, pre-re-approve them if they're obviously great? | 20:26 |
| popey | I think it would be fairer if everyone had the same process | 20:26 |
| itnet7 | ah | 20:26 |
| czajkowski | I think so to, make it the same across the board. For everyone loco to see | 20:26 |
| itnet7 | agreed | 20:26 |
| popey | would be more open that way | 20:27 |
| popey | any other re-approval comments? | 20:27 |
| JanC | still, looking at & discussing their reapproval page beforehand might help meetings go faster | 20:28 |
| keffie_jayx | it would be good to have a timeline for things to happen | 20:28 |
| keffie_jayx | just to keep track. | 20:28 |
| keffie_jayx | this things tend to take sooo longgg | 20:28 |
| keffie_jayx | and emailing is not a nice tracker of time | 20:28 |
| popey | well we said 3 mails in a month, invite, if they dont turn up, unapprove | 20:28 |
| czajkowski | aye we did agree on that at UDS | 20:29 |
| keffie_jayx | but our roadmap to begin reaprovals should be nice | 20:29 |
| JanC | popey: 3 in a month, how many approved locoteams are there ? | 20:29 |
| keffie_jayx | I am being optimistic when I say we begin january next year | 20:29 |
| popey | no JanC | 20:29 |
| popey | 3 attempts to contact _one_ team in a month | 20:29 |
| popey | no keffie_jayx | 20:29 |
| JanC | ah, okay ☺ | 20:29 |
| popey | :) | 20:29 |
| popey | but we could re-approve two (or more) in one meeting | 20:30 |
| popey | it depends how prepared they are - and how good (or bad) they are | 20:30 |
| JanC | we'd need to, otherwise reapproval of all teams will take 10 years ;) | 20:30 |
| popey | yeah, job for life :) | 20:30 |
| popey | ok, shall we move on? | 20:30 |
| JanC | k | 20:30 |
| keffie_jayx | wait | 20:31 |
| huats | keffie_jayx, we might each contact 1 team | 20:31 |
| huats | by month | 20:31 |
| huats | it will reduce the time... | 20:31 |
| keffie_jayx | so no estimated time for reaprovals yet | 20:31 |
| keffie_jayx | no estimated time for the actions popey and czajkowski have? | 20:31 |
| keffie_jayx | sorry If I am pushy about this | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | it shouldnt take long to document it, and then get some input and tweek it | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | popey: ? | 20:32 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: we dont have the documentation yet | 20:33 |
| popey | its not promoted, no teams even know about this process | 20:33 |
| keffie_jayx | this is key because if we have 30 teams to do in 6 months then time is not on our side | 20:33 |
| popey | (except maybe belgium) | 20:33 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: right, is it safe to reduce the number of teams to reaprove for this cycle? | 20:33 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: what expectations do you have? | 20:33 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: no, I think it's good to have a target | 20:34 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: my expectations are keep it simple | 20:35 |
| czajkowski | keffie_jayx: I think we shoul d aim for the 30 and I'm hopeful we shall reach the target and if we fall short, then it's a learning curve for us as it's not been done before. | 20:35 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: no, i meant your expectations of timescales | 20:35 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: I said january, it is a nice way to start | 20:35 |
| keffie_jayx | it gives us a month to organize docs and promote the process | 20:35 |
| czajkowski | keffie_jayx: do you think we can get documentation and awareness out in time? | 20:35 |
| popey | sounds reasonable | 20:35 |
| keffie_jayx | czajkowski: yes. it is really up to us and the teams | 20:36 |
| huats | sounds to me too | 20:36 |
| keffie_jayx | and once you email a team contact three times, you know we mean business ;) | 20:36 |
| czajkowski | okie dokie | 20:36 |
| keffie_jayx | it is really up to us being constant | 20:36 |
| popey | agreed | 20:37 |
| popey | shall we move on? | 20:37 |
| huats | ok for me | 20:37 |
| czajkowski | sounds goo d | 20:38 |
| popey | keffie_jayx / itnet7 / JanC ? | 20:38 |
| keffie_jayx | sure | 20:38 |
| JanC | +1 ☺ | 20:38 |
| popey | "State of the LoCo Governance Docs" | 20:38 |
| popey | keffie_jayx - another one of yours :) | 20:38 |
| keffie_jayx | sure | 20:39 |
| keffie_jayx | LoCo Docs are probably the best pieces of docs on the Ubuntu wiki. but I think there are other general aspects that need to be documented | 20:39 |
| keffie_jayx | for instance. the LoCo Concil and its functions are not clearly detailed in the LoCoCouncil wiki page | 20:40 |
| keffie_jayx | this leaves the people a bit confused about what we do | 20:40 |
| keffie_jayx | and we do alot | 20:40 |
| keffie_jayx | So I take the initiative to document our actions | 20:40 |
| keffie_jayx | so that the community can have a better sense of what we do | 20:40 |
| keffie_jayx | I speak of this particularly https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil | 20:41 |
| keffie_jayx | also | 20:41 |
| itnet7 | popey: I agree sorry... work stuff | 20:41 |
| itnet7 | +1 | 20:42 |
| keffie_jayx | also our interaction with the LoCo Community should be documented | 20:42 |
| popey | ok, I agree completely | 20:42 |
| popey | what do you propose we do keffie_jayx ? | 20:42 |
| keffie_jayx | I took the initiative to blog about LoCo Team Contact changes | 20:42 |
| keffie_jayx | and we could make this a LoCo Council thing to do | 20:43 |
| keffie_jayx | and not only LoCo Contact Changes | 20:43 |
| keffie_jayx | once a new team is formed | 20:43 |
| keffie_jayx | once a new team is approved | 20:43 |
| keffie_jayx | onces a new team is reaproved | 20:43 |
| huats | keffie_jayx, it makes high sense to me | 20:44 |
| popey | ok | 20:44 |
| keffie_jayx | so documenting a bit on this will make sure people that follow after us | 20:45 |
| keffie_jayx | keep this little gestures of sympathy going long after we are gone | 20:45 |
| keffie_jayx | also there is a leadership code of conduct that we should make reference of in our docs | 20:46 |
| JanC | right | 20:46 |
| keffie_jayx | the LoCo Docs do not make reference to that and it would be healthy to add it | 20:46 |
| keffie_jayx | makes sense? | 20:46 |
| popey | yes | 20:46 |
| JanC | certainly | 20:46 |
| keffie_jayx | I can drive this documentation and open it up for coments | 20:47 |
| popey | That would rock | 20:47 |
| itnet7 | sounds good keffie_jayx ! | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | lovely | 20:47 |
| popey | it would also help the newbies :) | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | grin | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | any help is welcomed | 20:47 |
| keffie_jayx | ok | 20:48 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: you going to co-ordinate that on the mailing list? | 20:48 |
| keffie_jayx | I am done the, I will report via email my rpgress | 20:48 |
| popey | excellent stuff | 20:48 |
| keffie_jayx | yes, email and wiki on the Lucid Roadmap | 20:48 |
| popey | ok | 20:48 |
| popey | next up is nizarus | 20:48 |
| nizarus | هنا /o\ | 20:49 |
| popey | :) | 20:49 |
| nizarus | hi | 20:49 |
| czajkowski | aloha | 20:49 |
| nizarus | so I'm from the tunisian LoCo Team | 20:49 |
| popey | nizarus: you were asking about setting up a legal entity to promote Ubuntu in Tunisia right? | 20:49 |
| nizarus | and we was approved on July 2008 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda/20080722 | 20:49 |
| nizarus | yes popey | 20:50 |
| popey | ok, there was a reply from the cc, but I now see that you didn't see that.. | 20:50 |
| popey | one moment. | 20:50 |
| nizarus | popey, haven't recieved it | 20:50 |
| popey | This is the reply from Mark Shuttleworth.. | 20:50 |
| popey | "I agree with the sentiment that a legal entity is only appropriate in the most exceptional cases. Of course Canonical can't stop anyone from forming a legal entity: if you want to do that, and you have the required resources and competence, then go ahead. You would need a trademark agreement to call it an Ubuntu entity, but that can be granted using the template you have." | 20:50 |
| popey | "The most important thing to think about is how to wind down such an entity. Keeping a legal vehicle alive is a lot of work. It's a bit like a puppy - everyone wants one, not everyone is good at looking after the dog it grows into! Think carefully about it - there are real legal consequences for not responding to paperwork and administration in most countries if you are responsible for a legal entity, and Canonical cannot help." | 20:51 |
| nizarus | popey, we know the consequences and we are ready to do it | 20:52 |
| JanC | http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/files/agreement.pdf --> is an example of the agreement with Canonical you'll need to sign | 20:52 |
| nizarus | JanC, I got your document | 20:53 |
| JanC | (might be different but something like that) | 20:53 |
| huats | this is the document we (ubuntu-fr) have signed | 20:53 |
| JanC | maybe huats knows if the French agreement is on-line too | 20:53 |
| nizarus | since 2 monthes i contacted canonical for trademak agreement | 20:53 |
| nizarus | but no response | 20:53 |
| huats | JanC, actually it is not online afaik | 20:53 |
| nizarus | that's why i'm here | 20:53 |
| huats | but it was the same that was signed with ubuntu-fr | 20:54 |
| huats | (they both have been signed at the same time) | 20:54 |
| popey | nizarus: sadly the loco council cannot do anything about the responsiveness of the canonical trademark team | 20:55 |
| sshd | hi | 20:55 |
| nizarus | popey, I see, but if there is any tips | 20:56 |
| nizarus | :/ | 20:56 |
| czajkowski | nizarus: tips on ? | 20:56 |
| nizarus | how to contact canonical and got fast response :) | 20:57 |
| popey | be patient and polite, thats my tip :) | 20:57 |
| JanC | maybe if we put what sabdfl said on the wiki so that you can reference it, that might make sense | 20:57 |
| nizarus | popey, patient for more 2 monthes ? | 20:57 |
| popey | nizarus: when did you last mail them? | 20:57 |
| popey | I believe the trademark 'team' is quite small | 20:58 |
| popey | and ubuntu is "quite big" | 20:58 |
| nizarus | popey, I used the trademark contact form since 2 mothes | 20:58 |
| czajkowski | and ~i'm sure it gets a lot queries | 20:58 |
| JanC | maybe we can ask Canonical how long people should expect to wait? | 20:58 |
| popey | nizarus: I would contact them again | 20:58 |
| popey | nizarus: simply ask for an update | 20:59 |
| nizarus | and i got a confirmation with an information that i will have a response in 48 hours | 20:59 |
| czajkowski | nizarus: as popey pointed out, there is nothing we can do about the responose of canonical. Perhaps mail asking for an update to the situation | 20:59 |
| JanC | and ask what details peopel should include in their mail to avoid losing time? | 20:59 |
| huats | nizarus, I have contacted the trademark team a few time | 20:59 |
| huats | and I have waited about 2 months already | 20:59 |
| ScottK | nizarus: I'd suggest reviewing the bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community and filing one if you think it's needed. | 20:59 |
| nizarus | huats, you have a direct mail ? | 20:59 |
| huats | nope | 21:00 |
| nizarus | :/ | 21:00 |
| huats | I have used the form too | 21:00 |
| popey | i emailed them directly | 21:01 |
| nizarus | popey, which adresse | 21:01 |
| popey | trademarks @ ubuntu dot com | 21:01 |
| nizarus | thank's popey | 21:02 |
| popey | when I asked, I got a reply same day :S | 21:02 |
| popey | that was over a year ago though | 21:02 |
| popey | things have changed since then | 21:02 |
| nizarus | I will resent my mail and cc you | 21:02 |
| popey | no need to cc me | 21:02 |
| popey | there's nothing the loco council (or I) can do about canonical trademark issues | 21:02 |
| popey | ok, we're over time | 21:03 |
| nizarus | ok | 21:03 |
| popey | jcastro...? | 21:03 |
| nizarus | thx all | 21:03 |
| huats | no pb nizarus | 21:03 |
| jcastro | yep | 21:04 |
| popey | "LoCo Week and LoCo Doc Day" | 21:04 |
| jcastro | popey, so basically | 21:04 |
| popey | is it quick? | 21:04 |
| jcastro | I have no time to do this this cycle | 21:04 |
| jcastro | and was wondering if we still want to do this | 21:04 |
| jcastro | and if anyone is interested in driving? | 21:04 |
| keffie_jayx | jcastro: I am | 21:04 |
| czajkowski | jcastro: I'm not familiar with it ? | 21:04 |
| popey | can you mail the loco council about it? | 21:05 |
| popey | as we're already over time | 21:05 |
| jcastro | yep | 21:05 |
| huats | jcastro, same than czajkowski I don't know the idea | 21:05 |
| jcastro | no worries | 21:05 |
| keffie_jayx | jcastro: there hasn't been a LoCo week ever, so this would be a first time | 21:05 |
| jcastro | right | 21:05 |
| keffie_jayx | jcastro: LoCo Docs there was one in the Jaunty cycle | 21:05 |
| jcastro | it's one of those "been sitting on the backburner" ideas | 21:05 |
| jcastro | yeah | 21:05 |
| keffie_jayx | which was about a year ago | 21:05 |
| jcastro | I will send mails so I don't take up anymore time! | 21:05 |
| popey | jcastro: as czajkowski / huats / itnet7 aren't on the loco-council mailing list *hint* *hint* can you To: them too please | 21:06 |
| itnet7 | :-P | 21:06 |
| keffie_jayx | jcastro: I am interested in docs day, since one of my previous items was based on that | 21:06 |
| czajkowski | jcastro: thanks | 21:07 |
| popey | yeah, could be very helpful for that keffie_jayx | 21:07 |
| jcastro | popey, yeah | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | jcastro: I think the LoCo Council needs to have clear what a LoCo Week is | 21:07 |
| jcastro | yeah | 21:07 |
| popey | can we take it to the mailing list | 21:07 |
| popey | tick tock | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | or what the horsemen | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | think | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | right right out of time | 21:07 |
| czajkowski | thanks folks | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | thanks | 21:07 |
| jcastro | \o/ | 21:07 |
| keffie_jayx | great meeting | 21:07 |
| popey | woah.. hang on | 21:07 |
| czajkowski | oh | 21:07 |
| popey | we're over time and we have a team approval | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | popey: is there another meeting on now ? | 21:08 |
| huats | pfff it is my first ubuntu meeting that is almost on time :) | 21:08 |
| popey | drakulavich and sshd are here | 21:08 |
| popey | no czajkowski | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | I cna stay | 21:08 |
| yltsrc | yltsrc too | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | can others? | 21:08 |
| huats | I can stay too | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | itnet7: keffie_jayx huats JanC ? | 21:08 |
| JanC | no problem for me | 21:09 |
| keffie_jayx | I can stay | 21:09 |
| czajkowski | popey: ? | 21:09 |
| popey | ok | 21:09 |
| czajkowski | not to leave you out | 21:09 |
| czajkowski | ;) | 21:09 |
| popey | 30 mins past is the deadline | 21:09 |
| popey | so we have 20 mins | 21:09 |
| itnet7 | I can stay | 21:09 |
| czajkowski | grand lets shoot | 21:09 |
| keffie_jayx | let's do it | 21:09 |
| popey | ok .. before we start | 21:09 |
| popey | it's probably best that one person leads this process, we don't want to have loads of questions bombarding the Belarus guys and gals.. | 21:10 |
| popey | volunteer? | 21:10 |
| * czajkowski sits back and watches this time | 21:10 | |
| popey | ok, keffie_jayx ? | 21:10 |
| huats | popey, may be an experience people might be better | 21:10 |
| keffie_jayx | me | 21:10 |
| huats | .. | 21:10 |
| popey | great! | 21:10 |
| keffie_jayx | alright | 21:10 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelarusTeam | 21:10 |
| keffie_jayx | Anyone here from the Belarus Team? | 21:11 |
| yltsrc | yes :) | 21:11 |
| drakulavich | me too | 21:11 |
| sshd | and me ) | 21:11 |
| keffie_jayx | great :D | 21:11 |
| keffie_jayx | do you have an approval aplication | 21:11 |
| keffie_jayx | ? | 21:11 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved is the process by the way | 21:12 |
| yltsrc | yes http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelarusTeam/ApprovalApplication | 21:12 |
| keffie_jayx | ok | 21:13 |
| keffie_jayx | you have been doing release parties for how long? | 21:13 |
| develop7 | me too | 21:13 |
| yltsrc | we have release parties till 8.10 release | 21:14 |
| yltsrc | * since :) | 21:14 |
| sshd | we have some release party | 21:14 |
| keffie_jayx | and it read that you have been participating with other lugs from the regions, can you describe further your itneraction with other teams in belarus | 21:14 |
| sshd | 8.04, 8.10, 9.04, 9.10 | 21:15 |
| keffie_jayx | any pictures :P | 21:15 |
| sshd | keffie_jayx: in lvee, we connect with other lug from belarus | 21:16 |
| sshd | keffie_jayx: lvee.org | 21:16 |
| keffie_jayx | sshd: what is your colaboration particularly | 21:16 |
| drakulavich | http://picasaweb.google.com/antono.vasiljev/LVEE2008# | 21:17 |
| JanC | LVEE sounds cool | 21:18 |
| keffie_jayx | I ask about lug colaboration becasue your resource site make no reference about being a LoCo Team | 21:20 |
| keffie_jayx | unless it is not your site, just a refrenece site from belarus? | 21:20 |
| keffie_jayx | anyone? | 21:21 |
| JanC | keffie_jayx means http://linux.by/ | 21:22 |
| czajkowski | yltsrc: drakulavich sshd ? | 21:22 |
| keffie_jayx | ? | 21:22 |
| yltsrc | we have not lug site, but we have separated forum on http://linux.by | 21:22 |
| yltsrc | and http://ubuntu.ru | 21:22 |
| keffie_jayx | that's what I thought | 21:23 |
| yltsrc | because most of us russian-speaking and we provide support with russian team | 21:23 |
| keffie_jayx | how many active members are there, and how many have secured Ubuntu membership? | 21:24 |
| yltsrc | i am not sure, but all of us, who on http://launchpad.net/~belarus | 21:25 |
| yltsrc | and maybe more | 21:25 |
| keffie_jayx | yltsrc: anyone seeking ubuntu membership that you know of? | 21:26 |
| yltsrc | what do you mean? | 21:27 |
| drakulavich | you mean ubuntu developers? | 21:27 |
| popey | Ok. I am going to have to say -1 for now. I'd like to see a more comprehensive application, one which meets the criteria set out in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved | 21:27 |
| keffie_jayx | yltsrc: ubuntu membership is for individuals that have contirbuted considerably to the Ubuntu Community. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership | 21:28 |
| popey | It would be great if you could improve the application with more detail, reports and summaries of events before you come back to us for approval. | 21:28 |
| keffie_jayx | I agree with popey | 21:28 |
| czajkowski | I'm also going to say -1, and would like to see more Ubuntu participation evidence, but would love to see you come back in a few months. | 21:28 |
| itnet7 | -1, I do really like what you all have started though, and would like to encouarge you to tread on | 21:29 |
| keffie_jayx | I think your team has strated the process of consolidating a team but you still need to make sure your team can be functional with it's own resources, | 21:29 |
| yltsrc | i think we haven't any ubuntu member | 21:29 |
| keffie_jayx | the work you have done n events seems fantastic | 21:29 |
| huats | Sorry guys but my vote is also -1. I'd like to have more pics, and a clearer view of how you are exchanging on a daily basis | 21:29 |
| itnet7 | definitely, good work so far! | 21:30 |
| huats | I do think you have done a good start so far | 21:30 |
| keffie_jayx | yltsrc: we hope to see you again in say 6 months time and we can evaluate your progress | 21:30 |
| huats | you need to continue ! | 21:30 |
| drakulavich | thanx, guys. We'll be back :) | 21:30 |
| huats | drakulavich, we count on that ! | 21:30 |
| keffie_jayx | keep it up belarus | 21:30 |
| keffie_jayx | :D | 21:30 |
| popey | sorry it ended up being so late for you guys! | 21:30 |
| czajkowski | drakulavich: good to hear | 21:31 |
| popey | ok, thats the end of our meeting | 21:31 |
| itnet7 | no problem, can't wait to see good things in the future for belarus! | 21:31 |
| keffie_jayx | sorry for that too | 21:31 |
| popey | thanks keffie_jayx / czajkowski / JanC / itnet7 / huats | 21:31 |
| keffie_jayx | alrighty | 21:31 |
| keffie_jayx | minutes by me | 21:31 |
| itnet7 | ty popey ! | 21:31 |
| keffie_jayx | ;) | 21:31 |
| popey | thanks keffie_jayx | 21:31 |
| popey | keffie_jayx: you got the log? | 21:32 |
| czajkowski | lovely jubbly folks ;) | 21:32 |
| keffie_jayx | drakulavich, sshd, yltsrc see you agian friends.. :D | 21:32 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: yep | 21:32 |
| yltsrc | thanks, we'll be back :) | 21:32 |
| huats | thanks guys ! | 21:33 |
| huats | that was a great first meeting :) | 21:33 |
| keffie_jayx | awesome | 21:33 |
| keffie_jayx | new council members rock | 21:33 |
| keffie_jayx | now | 21:33 |
| keffie_jayx | next meeting after the holidaysright | 21:33 |
| keffie_jayx | I suggest Europe friendly time | 21:33 |
| * popey goes to beg for forgiveness from his wife | 21:33 | |
| czajkowski | popey: bring ice cream | 21:34 |
| popey | this time suits me fine, any time from 20:00 UTC onwards | 21:34 |
| keffie_jayx | popey: good luck my friend, hope you don't end up in the couch tonight | 21:34 |
| popey | czajkowski: i just had some :) | 21:34 |
| popey | haha | 21:34 |
| popey | o/ | 21:34 |
| czajkowski | popey: for your wife! | 21:34 |
| huats | it is good for me too | 21:34 |
| czajkowski | suits me grand | 21:34 |
| huats | the ONLY thing that might bother me is that the baby is expected at the end of january...so who knows... | 21:35 |
| huats | but I will let you know of course :) | 21:35 |
| czajkowski | huats: congrats ! | 21:38 |
| huats | :) | 21:39 |
| huats | thanks czajkowski | 21:39 |
| czajkowski | huats: do you know if it's a girl or boy yet? | 21:39 |
| huats | czajkowski, a little boy... | 21:39 |
| huats | so that I can train him to be a good rugby player | 21:40 |
| huats | ;) | 21:40 |
| huats | czajkowski, because I have seen your nice msg on facebook last week after the all blacks game ;) | 21:40 |
| czajkowski | heheh | 21:42 |
| czajkowski | #;d | 21:42 |
| czajkowski | yes | 21:42 |
| czajkowski | you did *ahem* get punished | 21:42 |
| czajkowski | however I had dan cater and chabal on the pitch, I was happy | 21:43 |
| huats | :) | 21:44 |
| huats | I haven't seen the game yet | 21:44 |
| huats | it was the night of the Ubuntu Party in Paris | 21:44 |
| huats | so I have taped it | 21:44 |
| huats | I think I'll have a look next week | 21:44 |
| czajkowski | do Ireland wasn't beaten once in 2009 :D | 21:46 |
| huats | czajkowski, :) | 21:48 |
| === Riddelll is now known as Riddell | ||
| === nizarus_ is now known as nizarus | ||
| === fader_ is now known as fader|away | ||
| === mkv is now known as m4v | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!