[00:17] <daskreech> Tm_T: No The kde 4.4 series are available?
[00:18] <daskreech> ScottK: open any app that uses Phonon
[00:20] <daskreech> JontheEchidna: Are we shipping Virtuoso ?
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> daskreech: not yet. Somebody at debian is supposedly working on packaging virtuoso itself
[00:26] <daskreech> Alright
[00:34] <JontheEchidna> but once all that's sorted it should be trivial to do
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> we do build the soprano backend; we just need the virtuoso database server itself to make everything work
[01:31] <daskreech> So there are no 4.4 builds yet?
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> right
[02:25] <daskreech> Ah so Tm_T's question was just checking if I compiled it myself
[03:16] <nixternal> ofirk: yo yo...kind of here for a minute...working on a friends laptop, got it all stripped down with screws everywhere...no smoke yet :)
[03:19] <kb9vqf> I know it's old code, but any idea why the dcopobject destructor would crash?
[03:19] <kb9vqf> It only happens when a specific window is delted
[03:19] <nixternal> wow, I don't even remember a darn thing about dcop, and I was a dcop junkie back in the day
[03:20] <kb9vqf> :)
[03:21] <kb9vqf> oh well
[03:25] <nixternal> anyone know if there is something like python-telepathy for kde/qt? for embedding an irc channel into a widget like...messing around here just a bit to much I think :)
[03:47] <shtylman> nixternal: there is a python irc library
[03:47] <shtylman> nixternal: don't know about anything else python related that you could use with irc
[03:48] <shtylman> nixternal: I found the python irc library to work quite well
[03:48] <nixternal> python-twisted-words :)
[03:48] <nixternal> python-irclib is not good
[03:48] <shtylman> how come?
[03:49] <nixternal> way to low-level
[03:49] <nixternal> this is what I did in twisted ^^
[03:49] <nixternal> 2 minutes
[03:49] <shtylman> heh... I see
[03:49] <shtylman> nice
[03:49] <nixternal> all it does is log conversation...which is exactly what I was wanting to achieve :)
[03:50] <shtylman> ahh I c
[03:50] <shtylman> *i c
[03:50] <shtylman> I found irclib to do what I wanted
[03:50] <shtylman> give me lots of control as well
[03:50] <shtylman> (thats what I used for the live assistant)
[03:51] <nixternal> oh ya...I could just steal everything I need from that...I totally forgot
[03:51] <shtylman> :)
[03:52] <nixternal> I could picture live assistant logging in, tells a bot the issue, and then someone can subscribe to the 'ticket', and work the live assistant :)
[03:53] <shtylman> thats exactly what it does :)
[03:53] <nixternal> or it is a bot, it messages a channel that there is a person in the queue, and lists their issue...then someone can go '!thatsmine'
[03:53] <nixternal> oh nice
[03:53] <shtylman> you can get the source and run it :) ... it will work
[03:53] <nixternal> once lp comes back of course :)
[03:53] <shtylman> ahh right...
[03:53] <shtylman> well...I can help with that...
[03:53] <nixternal> I will grab it...I looked it over briefly a week or so ago
[03:54] <shtylman> http://68.173.99.55/live/src/
[03:54] <shtylman> you should be able to do a bzr branch from that
[03:56] <nixternal> oh ya, I told you port 8001...now I remember it better
[03:56] <shtylman> yep
[03:56] <nixternal> that is slick...funny thing, it has been an idea for years in the community, and I think you are the first to even rock it out this far
[03:56] <nixternal> people started a project on LP, and it never lasted long
[03:56] <shtylman> yea...I saw that
[03:57] <shtylman> died many years ago
[03:57] <shtylman> so yea
[03:57] <shtylman> you can run the bot
[03:57] <shtylman> its safe
[03:57] <shtylman> he will connect and join #live_assistant_channel
[03:57] <shtylman> oh...and you might want to change the logs path
[03:57] <shtylman> somewhere at the top of the bot source... its hard coded right now :)
[03:57] <shtylman> then just run the qt client and off you go
[03:59] <nixternal> ya, just saw the TODO on it
[04:07] <nixternal> shtylman: that thing freakin' rocks!
[04:08] <shtylman> thx :)
[04:08] <nixternal> a little UI tweakage, and it is golden
[04:08] <shtylman> yep... and then a small web frontend to view logs
[04:08] <nixternal> tweakage as in, breakout the links to a sidebar or something
[04:08] <shtylman> ahh yea... that should be done..
[04:08] <shtylman> I just havn't gotten to that
[04:08] <nixternal> otherwise it is the hottness
[04:08] <shtylman> the endgoal is to have another bot do like a search on answers or something for similar results
[04:09] <nixternal> add an icon for the user, and then a tech support looking person :)
[04:09] <shtylman> and display that in the sidebar or wahtnot
[04:09] <shtylman> :)
[04:10] <nixternal> ok...gotta go fix this laptop before I forget about it and i lose the screws :)
[04:11] <shtylman> that would be bad
[04:14]  * kb9vqf is doing regression testing on qt3/gcc4/kdepim...ugghhh
[04:22] <daskreech> kb9vqf: are you on identi.ca ?
[04:25] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: You around?
[05:11] <vorian> rgreening: yes?
[06:06] <kb9vqf> daskreech: What is it?
[06:06] <kb9vqf> :p
[06:07] <daskreech> kb9vqf: :-P
[06:07] <kb9vqf> (means no, I'm not)
[06:07]  * kb9vqf doesn't really go for social networking
[06:08] <kb9vqf> it was hard enough getting me on IRC :)
[06:08] <daskreech> kb9vqf: Yeah but it's nice to do once a month updates that someone is working on packages in KDE3 in the !kubuntu group
[06:08] <kb9vqf> I actually have my own branch in the official KDE SVN now :)
[06:08] <daskreech> Keeps awareness alive and is about a good a tool as having a rabid mob spreading your message as one can hope for
[06:09] <daskreech> ine !kde group as well then :)
[06:09] <DarkwingDuck> I wonder if this is the wrong time to tell Riddell that it was about 70F here in San Diego today :P
[06:09]  * kb9vqf notes that the temp. is now 27 degrees Fahrenheit
[06:10] <kb9vqf> And snowing
[06:10] <kb9vqf> So, yes :)
[06:10]  * daskreech is so bummed about not going to Camp KDE
[06:11] <DarkwingDuck> :)
[06:11] <DarkwingDuck> I'll make it to Camp-KDE this year. Yay!
[06:13] <daskreech> kb9vqf: I'd advocate that you get an account if nothign else to have notices anytime you are working on KDE3 packages
[06:13]  * kb9vqf thinks about it
[06:13] <kb9vqf> OK :)
[06:13]  * kb9vqf doesn't know what he would do without Daskreech
[06:14] <kb9vqf> probably stay buried with no users
[06:15] <kb9vqf> Is there a Qt3 debug symbols package?
[06:15] <daskreech> If you make an account let me know and I'll follow you
[06:16] <daskreech> I can make your posts more public as needed if you don't want to be bothered with knowing what else is going on in the kubuntu kde doktoring workd
[06:16] <daskreech> world
[06:17] <daskreech> !find qt3 dbg
[06:17] <daskreech> !find qt3-dbg
[06:17] <daskreech> !find qt4-dbg
[06:17] <daskreech> Looks like no
[06:18] <kb9vqf> daskreech: That's what I figured :(  Makes tracing the *!#*@& regression in Qt3/gcc4.4 kinda hard
[06:18] <kb9vqf> BTW, here's my identi.ca account: http://identi.ca/madscientist159
[06:18] <daskreech> Wonder if there would be any help in #qt
[06:19] <kb9vqf> Dunno what I'll do with it yet :)
[06:20] <daskreech> kb9vqf: You just made it?
[06:20] <kb9vqf> yes
[06:20] <daskreech> Yep Just saw welcomebot welcome you :)
[06:20] <kb9vqf> avatar's up now too :)
[06:22] <daskreech> Seen :-)
[06:22] <daskreech> Ok What are you working on now?
[06:23] <kb9vqf> Tracing a Kmail glitch deep into the bowels of Qt3
[06:23] <kb9vqf> (Regression testing back to Intrepid, actually)
[06:24] <daskreech> kb9vqf is doing regression testing on qt3/gcc4/kdepim...ugghhh
[06:24] <daskreech> That's a good dent :)
[06:24]  * kb9vqf posts that
[06:24] <daskreech> What you are doing and what you are doing it on and your reaction/hopes/problems/outlook
[06:26] <kb9vqf> Installing side-by-side Intrepid/Jaunty/Karmic setups on the same machine, hoping to get a meaningful backtrace and a fix on when the issue crept in
[06:26] <kb9vqf> Outlook: not good :(
[06:27] <kb9vqf> daskreech: what do you see at http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net
[06:27]  * kb9vqf notes his DNS is fouled up ATM
[06:28] <daskreech> Mythweb
[06:28] <kb9vqf> Sh!t
[06:29]  * daskreech queues up some HD porn for the fun of it
[06:30] <kb9vqf> :P
[06:30] <kb9vqf> Should be fixed now; can you verify?
[06:30] <daskreech> Yeah it's down
[06:31] <kb9vqf> Thanks :)
[06:31] <daskreech> And some boring things about repos are up now
[06:31]  * kb9vqf does not need exciting DMCA notices
[06:32] <daskreech> For taping over the air programs?
[06:32] <kallecarl> DarkwingDuck: got Lucid loaded in VBox. Looks nice. Are updates supported through standard repositories?
[06:32] <daskreech> can they do that?
[06:32] <kb9vqf> For distributing them
[06:32] <kb9vqf> re-distributing them over the internet that is, yes
[06:32] <DarkwingDuck> kallecarl: turn on unsupported releases
[06:32] <daskreech> Oh you can watch Myth Over the web?
[06:32] <daskreech> Hmm I should look at a install
[06:32] <kb9vqf> Yup; it's pretty nice :)
[06:32] <kb9vqf> Little built-in Flash player just like youtube, but faster
 ftw!!
[06:33] <kallecarl> DarkwingDuck: okay...still dithering about writing the unassigned sections
[06:33] <DarkwingDuck> kallecarl: pre-released and unsupported
[06:33] <kallecarl> understood
[06:34] <DarkwingDuck> kallecarl: if you want to take either office or internet I'll take a couple of those others
[06:34]  * daskreech ponders how Kwin has been running longer than X
[06:34] <kallecarl> have you guys set up guidelines for what to write...those topics could be mighty big
[06:34] <daskreech> kb9vqf: rebroadcast your dent in case you didn't see :)
[06:34]  * kb9vqf notes that Qt now includes a built-in time machine
[06:35] <kb9vqf> I did notice--thanks!
[06:35] <daskreech> No that's QT
[06:35] <DarkwingDuck> kallecarl: look at the other branches on how they did it for guidance
[06:35] <daskreech> And snow leopard :)
[06:35] <DarkwingDuck> But, don't worry about how big they get
[06:35] <daskreech> Or whichever cat came with the TIme machine
[06:36] <kb9vqf> nahh...I mean the Stargate sci-fi kind :)
[06:36] <kallecarl> DarkwingDuck: BTW, VBox running Lucid as guest in Karmic is pretty slick
[06:36] <daskreech> So did Apple!
[06:36] <kallecarl> had to mess around with guest additions a bit
[06:36] <daskreech> at least acording to the marketing team >_>
[06:36] <DarkwingDuck> For the Lucid desktop that what I'm doing kallecarl. Lucid is fully installed on my netbook however
[06:37] <kallecarl> DarkwingDuck: what other section do you like for guidance?
[06:37] <kallecarl> so far Lucid is smooth
[06:37] <DarkwingDuck> Those links I gave you...
[06:37] <daskreech> kb9vqf: Which time machine?
[06:37] <DarkwingDuck> Also, I just use the program and write what all I had to do
[06:37] <DarkwingDuck> I don't go too deep with it
[06:37] <kb9vqf> daskreech: The one that allowed kwin to run longer than X
[06:38] <DarkwingDuck> But, deep enough
[06:38] <kallecarl> you suggested style guides and Lucid links, but no sections that you like
[06:38] <kallecarl> your netbook and about are the only sections I've gotten into much
[06:39] <daskreech> Yeah I'm still a little ... oh crap it's not running time it's how much CPU time it's taken up
[06:39] <kb9vqf> lol
[06:39] <kallecarl> i'll take a look and ping you if questions
[06:39] <daskreech> Of course I turned off compositing about 1/2 hour ago so It's fallen in CPU usage but it's still enough to make it use more time than X
[06:39] <DarkwingDuck> That's about all thats there right now kallecarl. If you go into Launchpad you can view the other branches and take a look at those. I'm off to bed soon though
[06:39] <kb9vqf> kwin pigging out again?
[06:40] <kallecarl> okay...I'm on PST too...Bellingham
[06:40] <kb9vqf> Found the Qt debug symbols...apparently they are installed with the standard Qt libs, not in a separate package
[06:40] <daskreech> Not really I've been doing a lot of kwin moving around of stuff since this evening so it's been working
[06:40] <daskreech> kb9vqf: That's ... interesting
[06:40] <kb9vqf> Odd for sure
[06:41] <daskreech> Not sure about Odd
[06:41] <daskreech> it's been argued for a while that's the way it should be
[06:41] <kb9vqf> Well, kinda bloat-ish anyway; I know the debug symbols are the first thing I get rid of when I run out of disk space
[06:42] <kb9vqf> But it would cut down on useless backtraces I suppose
[06:43] <daskreech> Yeah
[06:47] <kallecarl> DarkwingDuck:office looks doable...internet-I only use a couple of the apps. Someone else would do a better job. I'm more of an office soft
[06:47] <kallecarl> sort
[08:15] <kb9vqf> Is there a way to get a complete build log (not just the tail) from Launchpad while the package is still building?
[08:18] <tsimpson> kb9vqf: I don't think so, but ask in #launchpad
[08:19] <kb9vqf> OK, thanks anyway
[09:07] <ghostcube> hi
[09:11] <daskreech> hi
[09:40] <jussi01> apachelogger: you are a superman. stasks is great, thanks
[10:56] <Nightrose> Sime: around?
[11:03] <apachelogger> chromium says that our website is too slow!
[11:04] <apachelogger> well, indeed I am saying it, but based on chromium telling me that it takes 2.12 seconds to load
[11:04] <Nightrose> Sime: i need to run - dirk needs you for releases stuff - please ping him
[11:06] <apachelogger> uhhh w3c got themselfs a fancy new website :)
[11:15]  * apachelogger fixes our website markup :S
[13:38] <ScottK> dpm: As I mentioned at UDS, quassel is working on switching to gettext from the native Qt translations.  They have some technical questions about how gettext stuff works.  Could you, perhaps, join #quassel and see if we can help them out?
[13:39] <dpm> ScottK, sure
[13:39] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:04] <refic> when is 4.4b1 going in?
[16:05] <rgreening> refic: it's being packaged now...
[16:05] <ScottK> It got delayed a week.
[16:05] <rgreening> so, ya, when it's officially released, we should be shortly after that.
[16:06] <Tm_T> ugggggh
[16:06] <refic> it is officially released?
[16:07] <Tm_T> what's the nepomuk situation there, virtuoso?
[16:07] <refic> http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.4-beta1.php
[16:08] <refic> I'll surely start some lucid testing when it's in :)
[16:08] <rgreening> ya, it just got announced, and we are packaging now...
[16:08] <refic> yeah, good to know
[16:08] <refic> thanks
[16:08] <rgreening> partly done... some issues to resove...
[16:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: I propose that when we upload to the archive we do it in reverse order of build-depends.  In my experiments this gives us a lot less retries to do due to archive squeue
[16:29] <ScottK> skew
[16:31] <apachelogger> ScottK: so qt, soprano and friends are last?
[16:31] <ScottK> No, kde4libs is last.
[16:32] <ScottK> Do the support stuff and the reverse order stuff and then as kde4libs gets built it all takes off
[16:32]  * rgreening hopes everyone remembered to bump the build deps correctly
[16:33] <rgreening> :)
[16:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, since we now have a Qt upload at hand too... I think qt should be last?
[16:33] <ScottK> Doesn't matter.  Nothing will build in the KDE stack until libs is uploaded.
[16:33] <ScottK> The key is to get all the KDE stuff depwait before libs gets published
[16:33] <apachelogger> yeah, just saying, if we upload Qt last we can upload in whatever order
[16:33] <apachelogger> since libs cannot build without Qt 4.6
[16:34] <apachelogger> neither can soprano or akonadi (given they have bumped builddeps)
[16:34] <apachelogger> that said, is the dep graph still up to date?
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> should be
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> rgreening updated it the other day to remove the kdelibs-experimental stuff
[16:35] <rgreening> yeah, as far as I can tell, it's correct apachelogger
[16:35] <apachelogger> cool
[16:35] <apachelogger> btw, I recently noticed that I have a debian/control praser half-way finished lying around
[16:36] <apachelogger> I suppose I started work on that to autogenerate the dep graph... so should I get round to finish the parser we probably could make the graph updates more automatically
[16:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: are the ontologies in yet?
[16:37] <Daskreech> \o/ 4.4 beta 1
[16:37] <apachelogger> apparently not
[16:39] <Daskreech> Hmm?
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: need a revu, I think I fixed the issues
[16:41] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, base/LICENSE.W3C is different from LICENSE.BSD
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> There are files that are licensed either CC-By or BSD
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> and then there are files only licensed under the W3C bsd
[16:42] <apachelogger> well, your copyright file doesnt say that
[16:42] <apachelogger> All files are licensed with the CC-BY license, aside from those licensed under the
[16:42] <apachelogger> W3C BSD License variant, see below.
[16:43] <JontheEchidna> oh, forgot the CC-BY or BSD
[16:43] <apachelogger> also, you need to add the license text from LICENSE.BSD
[16:43] <apachelogger> since it is different from the W3C one
[16:43] <apachelogger> should be good otherwise
[16:44] <apachelogger> If archive-admin does not disagree(tm)
[16:44] <apachelogger> ;)
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> ok
[16:51] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: want to take a stab at packaging gluon?
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: shared-desktop-ontologies is in new queue
[16:51]  * JontheEchidna is the master of new packages
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> might as well ;-)
[16:51] <rgreening> git clone git://gitorious.org/gluon/gluon.git
[16:51] <ScottK> OK.  I'll try and have a look at it in a bit.
[16:51] <rgreening> if we get that in, then we can update kdegames and add the dep for it.
[16:51] <rgreening> ty JontheEchidna
[16:52] <Daskreech> Tonio_: ping!
[16:52] <Tonio_> Daskreech: yeah !!! that's about the email ? I wanted to write this WE
[16:52] <Tonio_> is that okay for you ?
[16:52]  * Daskreech gives JontheEchidna a gift package
[16:52] <Daskreech> Tonio_: Ah ok Cool just wanted to know if you forgot it or not. Thanks
[16:53] <Daskreech> Gly Moody wrote an article about the same (FOSS not KDE) recently so would be interesting to get your perspective
[16:54] <Tonio_> Daskreech: no I didn't forget :) just have about... no time :)
[16:55] <Daskreech> Ah Yeah I've had negative time available before as well. Thanks for the consideration :)
[17:01] <ScottK> rgreening: We'd need gluon in and in Main before it can be a build-dep on kdegames
[17:02] <rgreening> ScottK: that would be the intention
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> it sometimes takes the security guys a while to get to MIRs that actually involve code :P
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> I'd play it safe and not build-dep for beta1
[17:06] <ScottK> Agreed
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> So once virtuoso-opensource itself is packaged, we'll need to make ~5MB of space on the live cd for the runtime components necessary
[17:13] <Daskreech> How much space do we hav currently on the CD ?
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> Not much. Some reshuffling may be required. But given that the virtuoso source tarball is 57 MB large I'm glad it's only 5 MB that we need
[17:14] <ScottK> Yeah.
[17:14] <apachelogger> lzma!
[17:14] <apachelogger> anyhow
[17:14] <ScottK> We can kick some language packs and get that I think.
[17:15]  * apachelogger wants to propose replacing speedcrunch with kcalc
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> poor langpacks :(
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> has anybody done any profiling between our livecds and those of other distros?
[17:15] <apachelogger> latter is considerable smaller due to non-internal mo files
[17:15] <apachelogger> actually former does not have mo files since it does not use gettext but the qt thingy, but you get the idea :P
[17:15] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: profiling in what regards?
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> how much stuff they can fit on theirs vs. what we can fit on ours
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> where's the bulk of the space on ours going to, etc
[17:16] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I have the impression that most other distros are DVD focused and expect people to get that and just pick Gnome or KDE
[17:16] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:16] <apachelogger> they are all going for DVD
[17:17] <ScottK> I don't think they have the idea of Live CD == Default install
[17:17]  * apachelogger thinsk that we should go for livedvd as primary media of choice really
[17:17] <Daskreech> Bluray!
[17:17] <apachelogger> remove langpacks from the livecd alltogether and recommend to use the dvd
[17:18] <JontheEchidna> Daskreech: beat me to it :P
[17:18] <apachelogger> that way we can deploy more languages and dont have to squeeze so hard
[17:18] <JontheEchidna> Live HD-DVD :P
[17:18] <Daskreech> lol
[17:18] <apachelogger> default app selection could still look like the cd
[17:18] <apachelogger> but with additional software available from the dvd
[17:19] <apachelogger> i.e. a combo of the current livecd and the current dvd
[17:19] <Daskreech> Seriously though Debian should have a BluRay image
[17:19]  * JontheEchidna chucks 10,000 floppies Daskreech's way
[17:19] <Daskreech> having 24 CDs is a little crazy
[17:19] <apachelogger> its not like debian will run on super new machines :P
[17:19] <apachelogger> and blueray devices will not work on super old machines (target audience of debian :P)

[17:20] <Daskreech> Really? I know people who get blingy new computers to setup Debian installs
[17:20] <Daskreech> granted those are servers and mostly doing netinstalls
[17:20] <apachelogger> well, old kernel == old drivers == no nu hardware :P
[17:21] <apachelogger> by nu I mean bleeding edge stuff you would find in a gamers machine for example
[17:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: I like the idea of staying focused around a CD, but someone (IIRC you) mentioned the idea of a metapackage to install everything on the DvD.  I think this would be good (and have it an installer option if installing via the DvD.
[17:22] <ScottK> )
[17:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah a CD certainly has its advantages
[17:23] <apachelogger> but there are a lot cases where a livedvd would be justified
[17:23] <apachelogger> think magazines...
[17:23] <ScottK> Live DVD would be a bitch to build.
[17:23] <apachelogger> they usually get named as one of the primary software resource for people without intarwebs access
[17:23] <Daskreech> apachelogger: I've been saying for a while that we should really define what a ideal kubuntu install looks like to our specs and provide a meta package
[17:24] <ScottK> It takes about 3  hours to build the live FS for CDs.
[17:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: so only build them every once in a while :)
[17:24] <Daskreech> installs the wallpapers and such that don't fit on the CD
[17:24]  * apachelogger really thinks that we need a instalaltion media with more langpacks and stuff we cant squeeze on the CD
[17:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: We don't really have good infrastructure for that.  So it'd take some prep work.
[17:25] <ghostcube> what version of kde is in staging?
[17:25] <apachelogger> yeah, I imagine this would be a long-term project
[17:25] <ghostcube> 4.4 or 4.3 ?
[17:25] <apachelogger> ghostcube: of the kde sc
[17:25] <apachelogger> we dont stage people :P
[17:25] <ghostcube> 4.3.4 so ?
[17:25] <ScottK> 4.3.4 should be for Karmic
[17:26] <apachelogger> Daskreech: that is kubuntu-desktop
[17:26] <ghostcube> ok :) i didnt remember what i installed
[17:26] <ghostcube> thx ScottK
[17:26] <ScottK> LP has improved their U/I by hiding the release from the normal PPA display.
[17:26] <apachelogger> Daskreech: of course that only include software and not translations and also enforces hard-constraints in terms of software diversity
[17:26] <ghostcube> nah improoved isnt the right word
[17:26] <maco> hehehe
[17:26] <ghostcube> it has made it more difficult
[17:27] <maco> ghostcube: meet ScottK. he's very snarky.
[17:27] <apachelogger> Daskreech: like choqok... I suppose we dont have it on the CD because the plasma microblog widget already meets the usecase choqok addresses
[17:27] <apachelogger> Daskreech: yet for some leet microblogger like myself the plasma widget is just too limited
[17:27] <ghostcube> whats snarky again ?
[17:27] <ghostcube> :D
[17:28] <ScottK> maco: Not at all.  We know every change made in LP is an improvement.
[17:28] <maco> ghostcube: kinda like sarcastic
[17:28] <ghostcube> ah ok
[17:28] <maco> SNARK!
[17:28] <ghostcube> cant kubuntu devs say to lp the new style just sux o.O
[17:28] <apachelogger> Daskreech: so to lift that software diversity constraint we should go for a kubuntu-dvd metapackage ... BUT for the langpack limitations we can only strive for squeezing more on the installation media, therefore we need to go for DVD in the long run
[17:29] <apachelogger> ghostcube: we can say that, they do not have to care though :P
[17:30] <Daskreech> apachelogger: ha ha Leet µbloggeer :)
[17:30] <apachelogger> just like we, in theory, do not have to use it
[17:30] <Daskreech> I recall your first tentative steps. you've done well
[17:30] <ghostcube> apachelogger: ah ok i thought you work together
[17:30] <ghostcube> :D
[17:31] <ghostcube> Daskreech: hehe yeah hes a bit over the top with this statement
[17:31] <ghostcube> :d
[17:31] <apachelogger> well, the lp devs are providing infrastructure to us
[17:31] <apachelogger> in a way we are clients
[17:31] <ghostcube> oh ok i thought this is other way
[17:31] <ghostcube> you give lp the stuff
[17:31] <Daskreech> apachelogger: But no not Kubuntu-desktop though that would be interesting. But something close that pulls in all the thigns that people expect like extra runners more widgets more wallapapers that flesh out the desktop but can't be shipped on the puny 1000 floppies that we use (and JontheEchidna just threw at me)
[17:31] <apachelogger> ghostcube: what would we give them?
[17:31] <ghostcube> servers :)
[17:32] <apachelogger> Daskreech: that is what a kubuntu-dvd metapackage could be
[17:32] <Daskreech> apachelogger: Hmm a DVD package that's not a bad idea
[17:33] <apachelogger> ghostcube: we are no hardware vendor :P
[17:33] <ghostcube> :P
[17:33] <apachelogger> we produce a desktop and netbook OS, but that is it
[17:33] <ghostcube> i know i thought you use your own servers for the compiling
[17:33] <ghostcube> and not the lp servers
[17:34] <ghostcube> so lp uses your hardware to set up the system
[17:34] <ghostcube> :)
[17:34] <Daskreech> apachelogger: should we start a listing of packages that would be installed if we had infinite space ora quad layer Bluray which ever is larer?
[17:34] <apachelogger> ghostcube: no, even though I proposed a system like that
[17:35] <apachelogger> still the main infrastructure would be lp itself
[17:35] <apachelogger> also lp is much more than a buildfarm :P
[17:35] <apachelogger> Daskreech: the archive? :P
[17:35] <Daskreech> I think Wallpapers and widgets should be obvious
[17:35] <Daskreech> apachelogger: I'm dissapointed in you :)
[17:36] <ghostcube> hmm yeah lp is nice system i didnt say its only  a build farm thats why i thought like i did
[17:36] <Daskreech> I'd think you be a litte more discrimantory than that
[17:36] <apachelogger> srsly, infinite space or blueray == enough space to put at least all that matches apt-get search kde and all langpacks on it
[17:36] <apachelogger> Daskreech: what for? that would only requires time without obvious benefit
[17:37] <apachelogger> also technically any user might have a use for any app in the archive
[17:38] <Daskreech> ScottK: ping
[17:38] <ScottK> Daskreech: Pong
[17:39] <Daskreech> ScottK: what should I file the live CD not logging bug against ?
[17:39] <Daskreech> apachelogger: but it also degrades the user experience of Kubuntu
[17:39] <apachelogger> why?
[17:39] <ScottK> Daskreech: What's the issue?
[17:39] <Daskreech> You don't apt-get install *-* when you boot up
[17:40] <Daskreech> ScottK: It doesn't auto login
[17:40] <apachelogger> why not? :P
[17:40] <ScottK> Daskreech: Ah.  Ubiquity
[17:40] <Daskreech> ScottK: No KDM
[17:40]  * ScottK read not logging differently
[17:40] <ScottK> Daskreech: Did you configure it for autologin?
[17:40] <Daskreech> apachelogger: So the DVD metapackage should just depend on all of main and Universe?
[17:40] <ScottK> Daskreech: No, all of Main
[17:41] <ScottK> (KDE wise)
[17:41]  * apachelogger finds that too many default wallpapers disturbe user experience since it forces the user into having their list filled up with stuff they potentially do not want to have
[17:41] <Daskreech> ScottK: it's a live Cd :-P
[17:41] <apachelogger> Daskreech: you cannot sqeeze all the archive on a DVD
[17:41] <Daskreech> apachelogger: good thin that there is not that many that KDE ships with
[17:41] <apachelogger> Daskreech: there is a DVD image
[17:41] <ScottK> Daskreech: Then file it against ubiquity
[17:41] <ghostcube> double layer
[17:41] <ghostcube> o.O
[17:41] <apachelogger> kubuntu-dvd would be built from the set of apps there
[17:41] <Daskreech> ScottK: Thanks
[17:42] <Daskreech> apachelogger: Hmm Ok lets see how that works out
[17:42] <Daskreech> Argument being that if it got into Main it's probably valuable?
[17:43] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:46] <apachelogger> did I mention my knm build already?
[17:46]  * apachelogger is not sure what to do with it
[17:56] <ghostcube> rofl http://i.imgur.com/ktaDY.jpg
[17:57] <ghostcube> ok another one maybe a top topic http://i.imgur.com/Sh9FH.png
[18:00] <apachelogger> proof for that?
[18:01] <ghostcube> hmm nah
[18:04] <ghostcube> i noticed a strange silence in kubuntu :D
[18:05]  * Daskreech plays teh Wilhelm Scream
[18:06] <ghostcube> o.O
[18:33] <lmm> hi, not a kubuntu user but I heard this was a place to find pykde people
[18:34] <lmm> recently my pykdeuic4 has stopped working with AttributeError: 'kde_i18n_string' object has no attribute 'escape'
[18:34] <lmm> full traceback example: http://pastebin.ca/1702129
[18:40] <tsimpson> what version of pykde do you have?
[18:40] <tsimpson> pykdeuic4 works fine here with 4:4.3.4-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa1
[19:36] <lmm> tsimpson: 4.3.3
[19:37]  * lmm sees whether there's an upgrade available
[19:38] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: heard anything further from sandsmark
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: nope
[19:39] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I might take a stab at it... how far did you get?
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: dunno really, I can't compile Qt in a sane amount of time so lex was testing the patches
[19:40] <rgreening> I assume you made a patch but it failed to build ..
[19:40] <rgreening> can you provide me the patch?
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/334700/
[19:41] <rgreening> k
[19:42] <rgreening> I'll have a poke. any outstanding thing I should look out for
[19:43] <ScottK> Who's looking after getting kde4libs 4.3.80 to build?
[19:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^^ Do you know?
[19:43] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: hmm... I know that the include files for the new classes probably need added to the patch, among other things
[19:43] <JontheEchidna> Lex was working on that, last I saw
[19:43] <Lex79> yeah
[19:43] <Lex79> ScottK: I'm looking
[19:43] <rgreening> Lex79: said there was a chroot issue
[19:44] <rgreening> :)
[19:44] <ScottK> OK.  Great.
[19:44] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: is the phonon src in kdelibs5 or where?
[19:44] <Lex79> kdesupport rgreening
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: kdesupport/phonon
[19:44] <rgreening> ah. k
[19:45] <Lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+build/1379339
[19:45] <Lex79> 6 hours :(
[19:50] <Lex79> uhm 10 seconds now
[19:50] <Lex79> lol
[19:52] <Lex79> I'm building virtuoso taken from debian git
[19:53] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: the kdesupport/phonon is that from trunk or in one of the src tarballs? and if the later, which one?
[19:53] <Lex79> from trunk rgreening
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> there's a tarball now
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> 4.3.80
[19:53] <Lex79> ah
[19:54] <rgreening> ok...
[19:54] <rgreening> I'll go look...
[20:00] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: is there a new tarball for pimlibs? I don't remember if there is a new tar for pim-runtime or for pimlibs
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: new tars for kdelibs, kdepim-runtime, kdepim and kdebindings
[20:02] <Lex79> ok
[20:03] <rgreening> heh
[20:05] <Daskreech> ScottK: Should I do anything to mark the bug as Kubuntu?
[20:05] <ScottK> Daskreech: Just mention it in the bug text.
[20:08] <Daskreech> ScottK: done and submitted
[20:09] <Daskreech> bug 492605
[20:26] <Daskreech> to compile kdelibs I need soprano in version >=2.3.70. Which ppa add for karmic?
[20:26] <Daskreech> from dentica
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> none yet :(
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> will probably appear along with the KDE 4.4 beta packages
[20:30] <Daskreech> Kk
[20:30] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No reason it can't be uploaded now.
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> this is true
[20:31] <ScottK> I have to run out for a bit, but if apachelogger can't upload it, I can later
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> Do we want to backport qt to kubuntu-experimental before any of this?
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> the more I think about it, the more I think it needs to be backported first
[20:33]  * JontheEchidna goes back to updating kdepim-runtime
[20:40] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: doesn't that require the phonon bits before we backport?
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> that too
[20:40] <rgreening> :)
[20:49] <Daskreech> Qt broke Phonon?
[20:50] <apachelogger> upload?
[20:50] <apachelogger> what am I supposed to upload?
[20:50] <Daskreech> Soprano
[20:52]  * apachelogger notes that JontheEchidna can upload as well :P
[21:11] <ScottK> apachelogger: Not soprano.
[21:11] <ScottK> It isn't in the package set.
[21:11] <ScottK> I sent mail to ubuntu-devel yesterday or the day before.
[21:23] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: I should go for a bit, please retry kdepimlibs on amd64 when kdelibs is done
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> ok
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> There needs to be an icecc monitor plasmoid
[21:38] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: not just a notification? :)
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> installing icecc-monitor installs a little icemon application that has statuses of all the nodes
[21:50]  * JontheEchidna better stop himself before he creates another project for himself to work on :x
[21:51] <ScottK> Here's some IRC advice for free: If someone tells you, they intend to  "get the hands dirty with source code",  the recommended procedure it to redirect to get more information in a channel you aren't in.
[21:52] <JontheEchidna> heh
[21:53] <ScottK> True story.  Just did it.
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> sry auf deutsch. == sorry about the german?
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> bug 492646, if any german speakers care to triage
[22:01] <ScottK> I'd ask apachelogger to translate it, but unfortunately he speaks Austrian.
[22:02] <ScottK> (it was recently explained to me that Austrian is a different language than German in another venue).
[22:06] <Sput> yes it is.
[22:06] <Sput> but he should be able to understand high german :)
[22:07] <Sput> anyway, the guy has kubuntu on his mac and the second screen (on the displayport) is in clone mode
[22:07] <Sput> and he can't access the dual screen configuration thingy
[22:07] <Sput> also, he's thanking you for your great work.
[22:08] <JontheEchidna> ah, I know just the bug he's experiencing
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> bug 403610
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> Sput: Could you tell him that this bug has already been reported as 403610, and tell him that it should be fixed in KDE 4.4 please?
[22:10] <Sput> I don't have an account
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: would it be possible for you to do so?^
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> thanks anyways Sput
[22:12] <Sput> np :)
[22:13] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: sure
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: thanks
[22:13] <Nightrose> np
[22:13] <ScottK> Sput: I'm equally aware that even German isn't always German.  I've had the pleasure of watching my wife (who speaks German) translate among Germans that couldn't understand each other.
[22:13] <Sput> yeah, well, Austrian is quite close to Bavarian
[22:14] <Sput> (anybody from each of the two would kill me for saying this)
[22:14] <Sput> it's just another German dialect :)
[22:19] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: done and marked as dupe
[22:19] <Mamarok> Sput: absolutely right, Bavarian is a Tyrolian dialect
[22:20]  * JontheEchidna notes that the Amarockers are excellent bug translators
[22:29]  * JontheEchidna retries pimlibs on amd64
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> oh, somebody already did ;-)
[22:33] <Lex79> who is ? :)
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: uploading kdepim-runtime in a bit here
[23:07] <fale_> the 4.4 ppa has been published?
[23:07] <Daskreech> Not as far as I know
[23:08] <fale_> Daskreech: I see, thx
[23:08] <Daskreech> It'd probably be on the topic and I'd be asking for testers on !doktor on identi.ca
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> We're still a bit away from having anything usable
[23:09] <fale_> JontheEchidna: why?
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> phonon in Qt is too old
[23:10] <JontheEchidna> The phonon maintainer has to write a patch
[23:10] <fale_> JontheEchidna: I know, you have to use kde-phonon
[23:10]  * Daskreech gets a litte konfused 
[23:10] <JontheEchidna> Using KDE phonon not an option for distributions
[23:10] <Daskreech> I thought that the trolls were working on Phonon in the KDE repos?
[23:10] <fale_> JontheEchidna: why?
[23:11] <Daskreech> I honestly haven't looked at Phonon properly in over a year but why was there a fork?
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> Using KDE phonon means that pure Qt apps can't use Phonon, we don't get python Qt bindings and QtWebKit doesn't get HTML5 <video> support
[23:11] <fale_> Daskreech: in reality the trolls dropped phonon to devel qt-multimedia
[23:11] <Daskreech> So who works on Phonon now?
[23:11] <fale_> JontheEchidna: I see
[23:12] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: By Qt apps you men skype?
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> Daskreech: nah, skype doesn't use phonon
[23:12] <fale_> Daskreech: the guy that origianny wrote it (he is a kde-devel, not a qt-devel)
[23:12] <Daskreech> heh Probably should
[23:12] <Daskreech> I know
[23:12] <Daskreech> Qt adopted it since it was a good framework
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> the guy who originally wrote it isn't too involved in phonon anymore
[23:12] <Daskreech> They said they would be developing it in the KDE repo
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> sandsmark and a few other people do work in kde svn, then once in a blue moon Qt merges the work
[23:13] <Daskreech> Merges from Qt?
[23:13] <Daskreech> or to Qt ?
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> Qt merges the work done in kde svn to their repos
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> every once in a while
[23:13] <Daskreech> Ah so it's essentially a superset of KDe then ?
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> though Phonon really was a bit dead development-wise during KDE 4.2 -> 4.3
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> since the original author didn't have time to work on it anymore
[23:14] <Daskreech> KDE phonon.
[23:14] <Daskreech> Well Qt working on it is better than nothing
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> Qt doesn't work on it, they just merge the KDE work every once and a while
[23:14] <Daskreech> They have Qt multimedia?
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> yeah :/
[23:15]  * fale_ wants to see what will happens when Qt will move to Qt-Multimedia..
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> It's all quite a mess, and we as distros suffer
[23:15] <fale_> I can see that..
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> Anyway, sandsmark told the kde-packager mailing list that he's working on a patch for Qt
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> unfortunately he can only work on it in between studying for exams
[23:16] <fale_> I see
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> and even more unfortunately kdebase-runtime won't build without the new Qt, blocking a usable release entirely
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> er, won't build without the new phonon
[23:18] <Daskreech> So the tarballs for beta 1 are not usable?
[23:18] <fale_> :(
[23:18] <fale_> Daskreech: are usable if you sacrifice the audio on the not-kde apps that use qt
[23:18] <fale_> *that use phonon
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> the package transition for having libphonon in Qt rather than it's own package is quite a big deal, so it's not something we can lightly do temporarily
[23:20] <Daskreech> WEll currently for me none of the apps that use Phonon even open
[23:20] <Daskreech> It's a good thing that Skype has a dbus connection with Kopete otherwise it would be dead
[23:22] <fale_> Daskreech: I think they'll use the same approach when they will realease openly the interface
[23:22] <Daskreech> Oh Yeah Skype is openeing some part of the code I think
[23:23] <Daskreech> Did they get bought out by amazon or something?
[23:23] <fale_> Daskreech: yep, the graphic interface
[23:24] <ScottK> Using the KDE phonon would cause a circular build-depends.
[23:24] <fale_> Daskreech: I think is not (only) amazon, but I know that eBay now has only the 30% and that this decision has been made before the change in ownership
[23:24] <ScottK> KDE phonon needs kdelibs and kde4libs needs phonon.
[23:24] <fale_> ScottK: on planet appeared some days ago that using kde-phonon it compiles correctly..
[23:25] <ScottK> And if you are using a build environment where circular build-deps are OK, then it's fine.
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> I thought they solved that circular dependency by moving the phonon kcm to kdebase-runtime
[23:25] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Dunno.
[23:25] <Daskreech> Solaris probably won't like a circular build
[23:25] <ScottK> I know that's why we moved away from it.
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> Perhaps I should do a blog about all this. (I'd have to be careful, though... not to offend anybody would be a big plus)
[23:31] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: Naw put ads on your site and go on a rampage rant covering Phonon Gnome's Logo The Thankgivinf dinner at the white house Peanuts in ice cream and people wearing faked imitation pearls and watch the profits roll in
[23:31]  * JontheEchidna kills some smurfs for added shock value
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: btw, kdebase-workspace should be fine to upload now
[23:33] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: That was a great ad
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> "Click here to save this smurf's life"
[23:35] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[23:42] <fale_> JontheEchidna: any prevision for the release of the qt-patch?
[23:43] <ScottK> prevision?
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> Here is sandsmark's exact words, which is currently all we know:
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> "
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> I'm working on patches for KDE-Qt for the missing parts of the Qt Phonon, when
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> not reading for my exams. :-)
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> "
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> s/is/are
[23:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: On the way (workspace)
[23:46] <Sput> ScottK: kde-phonon doesn't require kdelibs, the KCM and kde-dependent part are separated
[23:46] <Sput> at least in Gentoo, and I don't think we did any tricks
[23:46] <ScottK> Sput: Thanks.  Good to know.
[23:46] <Sput> yeah, it's in kdebase-runtime
[23:47] <fale_> I see :\
[23:48] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: For these internet, office, ect ect you want a brief walkthrough of each included program with the install or, an explination on installing other popular programs?
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> final damage count to our CD space for adding virtuoso-opensource to the seed: Need to get 6,789kB of archives.
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> ....daaamn, guess I'll never use virtuoso on this computer: http://imagebin.ca/view/Cxw7Hz2x.html
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> I can't say that would be healthy for livecd endeavors either