[00:03] <Flannel> MenZa: after some back and forth, he's begrudgingly changed it.
[00:04] <Flannel> elky: Montel was connected from a public library this time, by the way.
[00:04] <elky> delightful.
[00:04] <elky> was this a confession?
[00:05] <Flannel> No, I just looked at his IP
[00:05] <Flannel> well, his hostname
[00:17] <nhandler> Flannel: His IP always changes at home as well
[00:19] <Flannel> nhandler: That's at least plausibly deniable though
[00:20] <nalioth> Flannel: montel has no plausible deniability
[01:20] <Flannel> Meh
[01:20] <Flannel> That was probably a mistake on my part
[05:39] <bazhang> :0
[06:20] <mneptok> errr ....
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:01] <Bacta> Hello
[09:55] <jpds> 09:51:36 [!] Mirv [n=tajyrink@ubuntu/member/mirv] has quit [K-lined]
[09:55] <jpds> wut.
[09:55] <Tm_T> jpds: I'm asking the very same
[09:55] <Tm_T> jpds: and stats p shows none
[09:56] <jpds> Tm_T: Awseome.
[09:56] <topyli> :o
[10:21] <Tm_T> jayne: hi
[10:22] <jayne> ?
[10:23] <Tm_T> one moment
[10:23] <Tm_T> Bacta: please come back later, as the persons you seek are not active right now
[10:24] <ikonia> Bacta: I am active actually
[10:24] <Tm_T> ikonia: oh, roger
[10:24] <Bacta> Hi :)
[10:24] <Bacta> How have you been?
[10:24] <ikonia> Tm_T: I just woke up
[10:24] <ikonia> Bacta: fine thank you
[10:24] <Bacta> woke up woke up or IRC woke up? :D
[10:24] <ikonia> irc woke up
[10:25] <ikonia> Bacta: I assume you want to talk about your ban now ?
[10:25] <Bacta> Yep
[10:25] <Bacta> If it's ok
[10:25] <ikonia> sure
[10:26] <ikonia> I've put in a reasonable ammount of thought with it, and talked to some of the other operators with regard to how to move this forward.
[10:26] <ikonia> it's very hard to know what to do as your past history works against you very bad, but I've come up with the follow situation
[10:27] <ikonia> I'm going to unban you from #ubuntu only - no offtopic channels or development channels or anything like that
[10:27] <ikonia> that way you can get support
[10:27] <ikonia> but be aware, ubuntu is the support ONLY channel
[10:27] <ikonia> that way there can be no miss-understandings about what is ontopic/offtopic allowed/not-allowed, it's for support disscussion only
[10:27] <ikonia> do you understand that ?
[10:27] <Bacta> Yep I do
[10:27] <Bacta> When will you consider helping me out with ot?
[10:27] <ikonia> no
[10:28] <ikonia> you have lost your right to offtopic
[10:28] <ikonia> that's gone
[10:28] <Bacta> No I mean when?
[10:28] <ikonia> there are plenty of other offtopic channels on freenode, and you persistantly show you can't behave in them
[10:28] <ikonia> Bacta: #ubuntu-offtopic is gone - forget about it
[10:28] <Bacta> I see
[10:29] <ikonia> denying you support for the operating system you chose is something I don't want to do which is why I'm putting this deal on the table
[10:29] <Bacta> I see
[10:29] <ikonia> but you have no reason to access #ubuntu-offtopic anymore as you continue to show you are unable to behave in lose conversation channels
[10:29] <Bacta> So just to get this clear I'm barred from ot permanently, even in 2/5/10 years?
[10:29] <ikonia> you persistantly blow your "troll" horn
[10:29] <ikonia> as you put it EVEN after you where banned and I asked you to stop
[10:29] <ikonia> and other such comments to incite a situation
[10:30] <ikonia> do you understand what is being said to you here ?
[10:30] <Bacta> Can you please just answer my question?
[10:30] <ikonia> Bacta: you are banned from #ubuntu-offtopic indefenitly
[10:30] <ikonia> and I will confirm this with the ubuntu-irc-council shortly
[10:30] <Bacta> Ok, well if you could unban me from #ubuntu that would be good
[10:30] <ikonia> that is acceptable
[10:30] <Bacta> Can I sit in on that?
[10:30] <ikonia> Bacta: no
[10:31] <ikonia> Bacta: I'm sure you will be informed if my decidsion is cofnirmed
[10:31] <ikonia> confirmed
[10:31] <Bacta> Ok well I guess we're done here
[10:31] <ikonia> Bacta: be aware that this is your final chance with #ubuntu -
[10:31] <ikonia> I'm not unbanning him yet - I'll drag him back in
[10:32] <ikonia> ignoring pm now
[10:32] <Tm_T> not a good start
[10:32] <ikonia> it's not getting lifted then
[10:33] <Tm_T> ikonia: give him some time, he might be thinking his doings elsewhere
[10:33] <Tm_T> some time being not many hours, though
[10:33] <Bacta> Yes?
[10:33] <Tm_T> (:)
[10:33] <ikonia> Bacta: thank you for rejoining
[10:33] <ikonia> Bacta: before I lifted the ban I just wanted to make a few final things clear with you
[10:33] <ikonia> Bacta: you left before I could though
[10:33] <Bacta> You have made it perfectly clear to me
[10:34] <Bacta> I'm not eight so I do not need a lecture
[10:34] <Bacta> I know the score
[10:34] <ikonia> Bacta: I'm not lecturing you - I'm making the terms %101 clear
[10:34] <ikonia> and if you knew the score - you wouldn't behave as you do
[10:34] <tsimpson> Bacta: please just listen to ikonia, the sooner we're done here the sooner you can get into #ubuntu
[10:34] <Bacta> And I'm telling you I don't need them to be 101% clear
[10:34] <Bacta> I know that if I misbehave in #ubuntu I'm gone
[10:34] <ikonia> Bacta: then the ban won't be lifted
[10:34] <Bacta> That's it
[10:34] <tsimpson> be patient
[10:35] <Bacta> Are you telling me I'm somehow incorrect in what I've just said or are you going to make the same point again in a slightly different manner?
[10:35] <tsimpson> it's your choice if you want to cooperate here or not
[10:36] <ikonia> Bacta: that's not it entirley. 1.) this is your final chance with #ubuntu (as you've just said) you've had many chances and wasted them 2.) you will be monitored in the channel based on your past behaviour, if you play around in any way thats it - no discussion or debate any more, I'm not taking about mistakes, everyone makes them, but any of your troll comments and it's done
[10:36] <ikonia> is that %101 clear and understand and you agree ?
[10:36] <Bacta> I know I'm being monitored
[10:36] <Bacta> I've been told that on numerous occasions
[10:36] <ikonia> so you understand and agree to the terms
[10:37] <ikonia> ?
[10:37] <Bacta> I'm not going to tick a EULA box, I've told you how I see things and they match what you have just said
[10:37] <Bacta> I know how I am expected to behave
[10:37] <ikonia> Bacta: I need a yes or no - do you understand and agree to the terms
[10:38] <Bacta> I will not troll #ubuntu and I do understand what you have just written
[10:38] <ikonia> Bacta: and you agree to the terms ?
[10:38] <Bacta> Affirmative, General
[10:38] <ikonia> yes or no - just to be %101 clear in the logged channel
[10:38] <tsimpson> is it so hard to say "yes, I agree"?
[10:38] <tsimpson> that's all we need
[10:39] <Bacta> tsimpson: I'm not an idiot, I know what I can and cannot do so sure, "I agree not to fuck up"
[10:39] <ikonia> Bacta: you've just used uncalled for language
[10:39] <ikonia> why ?
[10:39] <ikonia> this behaviour is not going to get the ban lifted
[10:40] <ikonia> I'm asking simple clear questions, and asking for yes/no responses - nothing more
[10:40] <Bacta> yes, fine
[10:40] <tsimpson> you were refusing to answer a yes/no answer with a simple yes/no, that makes me suspicious
[10:40] <ikonia> infact - think about this for 24 hours and come back with when you're calmer
[10:40] <ikonia> Bacta: come back in 24 hours when you've thought about it and I'll ask you again - clearly, and you can respond clearly
[10:40] <ikonia> I'm not confident with your attitude at the moment
[10:40] <Bacta> I just said yes
[10:40] <Bacta> yes
[10:40] <ikonia> Bacta: think it over
[10:41] <Bacta> I just said yes
[10:41] <ikonia> your outbursts are not giving me reason to believe your taking it in and thinking it through
[10:41] <ikonia> swearing at people while trying to get unbanned does not lead me to believe your clam and in control while agreeing to this
[10:42] <Bacta> I've spent the past week thinking it over and there's nothing I hate more than someone saying something and asking if I understood what was said. It's something you might ask of a child
[10:42] <ikonia> it's nothing to do with asking a child
[10:42] <ikonia> you've had a lot of chances in these channels and one of your arguments was that you didn't know $X was not allowed, which is why I'm being so clear and asking for clear responses
[10:43] <Bacta> yes well we all know I knew what was expected of me
[10:43] <ikonia> your response to a reasonable request of "yes or no" does not fill me with confidence your in control of what you're saying and agreeing to.
[10:43] <ikonia> ok - so yes you understood what the offer was, and yes you agree to the terms of the agreement, correct ?
[10:44] <Bacta> ikonia I've just worked a 50 hour week and I've got a relative in hospital ... Forgive me if I seem a bit combative
[10:44] <ikonia> Bacta: I totally understand, - lets try again
[10:44] <Bacta> I said yes, how many different ways do you want me to say it?
[10:44] <ikonia> Bacta: do you undestand the terms of the agreement yes/no do you agree to them yes/no
[10:45] <Bacta> y.e.s
[10:45] <ikonia> thank you
[10:45] <ikonia> I'll lift the ban now
[10:47] <jpds> Something I wonder if you lot are taking this way to seriously.
[10:47] <ikonia> ?
[10:48] <jpds> This is IRC, not a war-crimes tribunal.
[10:48] <ikonia> no problem them, I'll let him back in without a clear understanding for the 50th time for him to talk about abortions, swear and all the other stuff
[10:48] <ikonia> the guy has a social disorder that requires things to be spelt out clear to him
[10:51] <Tm_T> ikonia: I think you handled it mostly fine (I know, I'm perfectionist in these things, and no I wouldn't be any better, not even close even)
[10:51] <elky> jpds, i've spent *hours* on the kid
[10:51] <Tm_T> big thanks for that (:
[10:52] <elky> jpds, he's not just a problem for us, he's a problem for freenode, linuxchix, even oftc at times.
[10:52] <jpds> Hmm, right.
[10:52] <Tm_T> elky: did he misbehave clearly in #u-w ?
[10:52] <elky> Tm_T, not that i've witnessed, but it's possible. if he has, let me know
[10:53] <Tm_T> elky: ah, just that haven't seen him there lately anymore, I'll go thru logs just to make sure (:
[10:54] <elky> the thing is, deep down, he's a good kid. it's almost like he doesn't think about internet people as real people until they actually take time to make sure he knows they are
[10:55] <Tm_T> yeah
[10:55] <elky> but that takes a looooong time
[10:55] <elky> and sharing way more than one should have to share
[10:58] <elky> and yes, i know there's a lot of people out there like him... but geez, there's only a handful of us. we'll run out of breath before we get through the tip of the iceberg
[12:05] <bazhang> billwgates was trolling earlier as elmer
[12:06] <ikonia> delightful as normal
[13:24] <elky> ikonia, you're in #debian-offtopic i see.
[13:25]  * elky puts the cushion on ikonia's desk in preparation.
[13:26] <ikonia> elky: oh my word, I hadn't noticed
[13:26] <ikonia> I'll take that cushion
[13:27] <elky> trust that channel to have someone willing to embrace the discussion though
[13:27] <elky> it's a practically unmanaged channel. they deserve what they get
[13:27] <ikonia> yes, a few annoyances in there
[13:57] <bazhang> saethr trolling?
[13:59] <ikonia> he was questionable yesterday
[14:04] <Pici> Well, ActionParsnip was baiting him too..
[14:05] <ikonia> he was doing that yesterday, I spoke to him and he stopped
[14:22] <bazhang> perhaps I should PM saethr as he continues unabated
[14:22] <maco> yes plz
[14:22] <ikonia> I thought he'd stopped
[14:26] <bazhang> started again
[14:33] <bazhang> judging from the contents of his last comment in #ubuntu and his PM, not a fan of Ubuntu
[14:41] <Tm_T> hmmm, no staffers awake here?
[14:42] <Pici> 'here'?
[14:42] <Tm_T> this channel right now
[14:42] <Pici> I see some in #freenode
[14:42] <genii> Depends what you mean by "awake" .... <crawls to coffeepot>
[14:42]  * MenZa rushes to genii with some freshly-made coffee
[14:42] <Pici> genii: since when are you a staffer?
[14:42] <Tm_T> Pici: plasma fellow and who others?
[14:43] <MenZa> Wait, genii, staff?
[14:43] <Pici> no
[14:43] <Tm_T> MenZa: kidding he is
[14:43] <Pici> Tm_T: I'd rather not hilight them
[14:43] <MenZa> ;[
[14:43] <Tm_T> Pici: ah, thanks
[14:43] <Pici> Tm_T: mquin is in #freenode if you need a staffer now though.
[14:43] <MenZa> Plasma_Rooolz is in /stats p
[14:44] <MenZa> Sorry, plazma
[14:44] <ikonia> he truley does rule with such a good nick
[14:45] <MenZa> indeed.
[14:51] <genii> Ah, THAT staff
[14:52] <Tm_T> anyway...
[14:53] <Tm_T> I was just attempting to hurry dealing of mirv-case (:
[15:34] <genii> Booted then banned
[17:00] <jpds> jussi01: Bot back.
[17:01] <Pici> jpds: I threw a ticket on rt about getting the log bot in #ubuntu-ngo, do you think you could poke someone about that? Its not an emergency, but I'm getting poked about it.
[17:05] <Pici> jpds: thanks ;)
[17:05] <jpds> Pici: Done.
[17:50] <Pici> jpds: Could you take a look at ubot4, it doesnt seem to be snarfing bugs... or at least not in #ubuntu-bugs
[17:57] <jpds> Pici: You are so lucky to have me.
[17:59] <MenZa> We all are, jpds.
[17:59] <MenZa> <3
[18:03] <jpds> tsimpson: What's a snarfTarget?
[18:03] <tsimpson> jpds: one of the trackers, like "lp" or "launchpad"
[18:03] <jpds> And why is it breaking ubot4's Bugtracker?
[18:03] <jpds> WARNING 2009-12-04T13:00:14 supybot no snarfTarget for Bugtracker
[18:04] <tsimpson> because you didn't set one?
[18:04] <tsimpson> @config plugins.Bugtracker.snarfTarget
[18:11] <jpds> tsimpson: ubot4 bug # works in /msg but not in channel.
[18:12] <tsimpson> jpds: I guess you should try setting the value for the channel too, but the global value should work when no channel value is set
[18:13] <jpds> I did: /msg ubot4 @config plugins.Bugtracker.snarfTarget lp
[18:25] <jpds> pleia2: Can you install bzr on up.com?
[18:26] <pleia2> jpds: sure thing, hang on
[18:26] <jpds> Woo, easy ubot4 plugin code updates!
[18:27] <pleia2> jpds: done, let me know if you need anything else :)
[18:30] <Pici> up.com?
[18:54] <Seeker`> nalioth: ping re: mootbot
[19:18] <mneptok> Pici: underpants.com
[19:20] <ikonia> mneptok: really ? is that link safe ?
[19:21] <mneptok> ikonia: i have no idea. (for either)
[19:31] <genii> Bah. Tab-complete fail in -ot
[19:32] <Pici> genii: I'd sent a pm explaining the problem, some people get quite angry when this happens
[19:35] <Smwn> hello
[19:35]  * Pici reminds people about 'too many cooks' before we get started.
[19:35] <Smwn> i'd like to make a complaint
[19:35] <topyli> hi Smwn
[19:36] <Smwn> They kicked me in #ubuntu-offtopic because I feel they don't understand self love.
[19:36] <Smwn> they should refer to the song 'stroke it'
[19:37] <Smwn> k
[19:37] <Smwn> so
[19:37] <Smwn> is
[19:37] <ikonia> Smwn: your ban will stand
[19:37] <Smwn> anyone going to ansaw me complaint
[19:37] <ikonia> Smwn: you have made multiple comments of a similar nature to #ubuntu-offtopic in other channels such as ##windows
[19:37] <Smwn> i prefer lying down
[19:37] <Smwn> or sitting
[19:38] <ikonia> Smwn: youre behaviour is therefore clearly to try to cause a problem in the channels you are making these comments in
[19:38] <Smwn> ikonia, whoa bro you should be a cop
[19:38] <Smwn> because they are full of geeks
[19:38] <Smwn> who need to masterbate more
[19:38] <ikonia> Smwn: so unless you have some way of giving us confidence you're going to behave in #ubuntu-offtopic the ban will remain in place
[19:38] <Smwn> untill my Ip changes
[19:39] <ikonia> your behvaiour in this channel leads me to believe your behaviour will not change so I believe we are done
[19:39] <ikonia> freenode staff please note Smwn's intention to evade ban
[19:39] <Smwn> ikonia dude you need to get laid
[19:39] <topyli> Smwn, evading a ban is not a very good idea. i guess it's fair to make you aware of this, if you don't understand it yourself
[19:39] <Smwn> straight up
[19:39] <Smwn> whys it not a good idea?
[19:40] <ikonia> Smwn: this conversation is over - please leave the channel unless you have something to discuss with us regarding your ban
[19:40] <topyli> just trust me
[19:40] <Smwn> what happens?
[19:40] <Smwn> no
[19:40] <mneptok> Smwn: you will get banned from the network entirely.
[19:40] <Smwn> straight up
[19:40] <Smwn> what happens
[19:40] <Smwn> you can't ban someone with a dynamic Ip
[19:40] <ikonia> Smwn: speak to freenode staff about it, this channels is to do with your ubuntu bans only
[19:40] <ikonia> Smwn: unless you have something to discuss on those bans please leave the channel
[19:41] <jussi01> !staff | ^^
[19:41] <jussi01> !-staff
[19:41] <niko> jussi01: yes i see
[19:41] <jussi01> ooh, thanks Pricey for getting that updated, I hadnt noticed
[19:43] <Smwn> ell' names bruce
[19:43] <Smwn> how are ya
[19:43] <ikonia> Smwn: unless you wish to discuss your ban please leave the channel
[19:43] <Smwn> ikonia, what do you do for a living?
[19:44] <ikonia> Smwn: unless you wish to discuss your ban please leave the channel
[19:44] <Smwn> ikonia, I sense your missing something in your life
[19:44] <ikonia> jussi01: I see no reason to continue this
[19:44] <Smwn> ikonia, do you care to discuss the missing part or element of your emotional life?
[19:44] <Smwn> I see potential but your lacking love of some sort
[19:44] <jussi01> Smwn: please keep ontopic for this channel.
[19:45] <Pici> Smwn: If you're unwilling to discuss your ban then you may depart.
[19:50] <Pici> Sorry, didn't mean to step on anyones toes there.
[19:51] <ikonia> it was a welcome interuption for me
[19:51] <ikonia> I had no wish to discuss that any futher with his comments
[19:59] <Pricey> He seems to be making the rounds. I'll look into it.
[19:59] <ikonia> he certainly does,
[20:00] <ikonia> nice and quiet now
[20:00] <Pici> Yeah, I was watching in #freenode
[21:29] <MenZa> Could someone toss me an invite to -monitor?
[21:30] <Pricey> MenZa: you're not an op of #ubuntu are you?
[21:30] <MenZa> correct
[21:31] <MenZa> Oh also, Pricey - re: your previous e-mail, see the topic
[21:31] <MenZa> (I had this wonderful realisation earlier today, after I'd sent the e-mail)
[21:31] <Flannel> ikonia: hah.  I get a "well, obviously thats aproblem with the -pae kernel, not ubiquity" response.
[21:31] <Flannel> sigh.
[21:33] <Pricey> MenZa: I don't see that bit? :S
[21:35] <MenZa> Pricey: It's an older topic.
[21:36] <MenZa> As in, much older.
[21:36] <MenZa> (2007)
[21:37] <ikonia> Flannel: you can't win
[21:37] <MenZa> Pricey: It was merely the whole 'public awareness' thing :)
[21:37] <MenZa> But yeah, it *was* advertised in there once
[21:38] <Flannel> ikonia: I wonder if we're getting to the point where we're starting to become like all the other FOSS out there: Usability and Just Works comes second
[21:39]  * genii sips and thinks about Plug N Pray
[21:39] <mneptok> sounds like most marriages
[21:39] <Pricey> MenZa: PM?
[21:39] <MenZa> do go ahead, Pricey
[22:23] <ikonia> Flannel: it's an interesting balance to strike, one I feel ubuntu sometimes doesn't have the right balance on, but then again, no-one is perfect
[22:42] <topyli> balance is never perfect. systems evolve through solving problems and contradictions
[22:43] <topyli> i certainly haven't found anything interesting in a stable one so far :)
[23:17] <topyli> hmm
[23:18] <Flannel> topyli: Nothing wrong with that message
[23:18] <topyli> doesn't it needlessly hilight you?
[23:18] <Flannel> Nope, irssi apparently differentiates
[23:18] <topyli> if you approve, i'm fine with it of course :)
[23:18] <Flannel> I thought it might, but it turns out it didn't
[23:19] <topyli> oh in that case it's fine
[23:19] <topyli> even funny :)
[23:20] <Flannel> After asking him to change it from something inappropriate, he asked if he could set it to me asking him.  I said yeah, and sort of assumed it was partial trying ot highlight me, and partial trying to make me look like a dictator or whatever.  But I don't care, it doesn't do the former as we found out yesterday.
[23:22] <topyli> well it lets him enjoy his awesome rebel status and does no harm as long as you're okay with it
[23:22] <Flannel> Mhmm, thats what I figure