[04:30] <Sp133n> anyone know where I can find the checksum for edubuntu 9.10?
[04:38] <sbalneav> For which, the iso?
[04:39] <sbalneav> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/release/
[04:39] <sbalneav> MD5sums is at the top
[14:50] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:51] <dgroos> Good Morn.
[14:51] <dgroos> Chilly 'up north'?
[15:00] <sbalneav> Only -10 at the moment
[15:01] <sbalneav> balmy weather for this time of year
[15:12] <dgroos> is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
[15:16] <mhall119> it's 50F here
[15:17] <mhall119> so 10C, according to the google
[15:18] <sbalneav> C
[15:29] <dgroos> mhall119: You're in US/Florida?
[15:30] <dgroos> In my yard here in US/Minnesota it's also -10º C or 16º F.
[15:48] <dgroos> An interesting feature of an irc app would be to plot current chat-room members' locations on a google map based on their ip.  So, click on a button and it takes you to a world map showing from where people are logging in.  Maybe some might not like to share that info, though.
[15:52] <mhall119> dgroos: yup
[15:52] <mhall119> we're all freezing
[15:52] <mhall119> dgroos: can probably be done with a bot
[15:57] <dgroos> mhall119: cool. someday I may look into that.
[15:59] <pleia2> I think it'd would be wrong too often to be very useful
[15:59] <pleia2> I come in to IRC from a server in Texas, but I'm frequently in Pennsylvania these days
[16:01] <mhall119> someone in the florida loco goes through a russian proxy
[16:01] <mhall119> so yeah, it may not work so well
[16:01] <mhall119> maybe a LP lookup would be more accurate
[16:02] <dgroos> Ah, right, proxies.  What's an LP lookup?
[18:11] <mhall119> dgroos: Launchpad lookup
[18:12] <mhall119> since so many people have their IRC nick listed, and also have their correct location entered for google maps already
[18:14] <highvolt1ge> ,wub 13
[18:15] <highvolt1ge> oops
[18:17] <mhall119> irssi?
[18:31] <highvolt1ge> mhall119: yep
[19:53] <livingtochill> any teachers here?
[20:03] <alkisg> livingtochill: yup
[20:03] <livingtochill> woohoo
[20:03] <livingtochill> do you use edubunut?
[20:03] <livingtochill> tu?
[20:03] <alkisg> Heh, I never get that reaction from my students :P :D
[20:04] <livingtochill> me neither.  what do you teach?  I teach 6-8 grade ESL in Memphis, Tennessee.  Home of Elvis.
[20:04] <alkisg> I'm a teacher using ubuntu/ltsp and of course educational apps, but not edubuntu per se (too childish interfaces for my students :()
[20:04] <livingtochill> i use xubuntu
[20:04] <livingtochill> using lxde as my windows manager
[20:04] <livingtochill> but i like the xfce apps
[20:04] <alkisg> The last 3 years I taught at 12-15 y.o. kids, this year at 15-18 yo
[20:04] <livingtochill> do you use italc?
[20:04] <alkisg> Sure, a lot
[20:05] <livingtochill> I can't make it work, for some reason.
[20:05] <livingtochill> My host machine never works.
[20:05] <alkisg> LTSP or standalone computers?
[20:05] <livingtochill> standalone
[20:05] <alkisg> Did you copy the keys from the server to the clients?
[20:05] <livingtochill> think so.  i haven't worked on it in a good minute.
[20:05] <livingtochill> the host program would launch on my netbook
[20:06] <livingtochill> which is the teacher computer
[20:06] <alkisg> Are you there now, to try some commands?
[20:06] <livingtochill> no
[20:06] <alkisg> Do you have a pc to use as a client?
[20:06] <livingtochill> i'm just yacking on an idle sunday.  :)
[20:06] <alkisg> (or even a vbox pc)
[20:06] <livingtochill> I think I'm going to have to get one.
[20:06] <livingtochill> The tech teacher has some old PCs that I've been fixing up for him.
[20:06] <livingtochill> I think I'm going to have to ask for one.
[20:06] <alkisg> Usually the problem is in the key copying/permissions
[20:07] <livingtochill> That's what it kinda felt like.
[20:07] <alkisg> I need to find the time to update the wiki page about this :(
[20:07] <livingtochill> I'm here to farm some ideas.  I'm giving an edupunk-themed presentation on Wednesday
[20:08] <livingtochill> http://midsouthedupunk.wikispaces.com
[20:08] <alkisg> Heh, nice word (edupunk :))
[20:08] <livingtochill> it's not mine
[20:08] <livingtochill> guy named jim groom
[20:08] <livingtochill> it's on wikipedia
[20:09] <livingtochill> (therefore it must be real!)
[20:09] <alkisg> (or they put it there :P :D)
[20:09] <livingtochill> What kind of apps do you use with your students?
[20:10] <livingtochill> Like, the showstopping stuff.
[20:10] <alkisg> Well here (Greece) we have edu* apps from our ministry, so I'm using those
[20:11] <livingtochill> Really?
[20:11] <alkisg> They were windows apps, but I've packaged them into .debs and I've setup an ubuntu repository with them
[20:11] <livingtochill> What do they do?
[20:11] <alkisg> So now I just do sudo apt-get install "secondary-school" and I'm done :D
[20:11] <alkisg> Geography, Chemistry, Mathematics, Informatics etc etc
[20:11] <alkisg> For all the lessons we have an app
[20:12] <livingtochill> oh, those.
[20:12] <livingtochill> not the edubuntu programs, but custom-made greek ones?
[20:12] <alkisg> Yup
[20:12] <livingtochill> Sweet
[20:12] <alkisg> Me, I'm an informatics teacher, so I mostly teach them openoffice, ubuntu usage, web usage, and some kturtle greek variant
[20:13] <livingtochill> have you tried etoys?
[20:13] <livingtochill> from squeakland.org
[20:14] <alkisg> Nope, first time I'm hearing about them. But some teachers here are using http://scratch.mit.edu/
[20:14] <livingtochill> Scratch is built on the same foundation as etoys.
[20:14] <livingtochill> i don't like scratch, personally.
[20:14] <livingtochill> it's all too often used just for animations
[20:15] <alkisg> Hey, those etoys look nice.. do they play nice with Ubuntu?
[20:15] <livingtochill> etoys, on the other hand, is powerful enough to be used to develop games and simulations
[20:15] <livingtochill> quite.  The new version, etoystogo, is splendid
[20:15] <livingtochill> the showcase has lots of cool projects
[20:15] <livingtochill> i've got one on there, too
[20:16] <alkisg> Hey, it's even in the Ubuntu repositories!
[20:16] <livingtochill> that's an older version
[20:17] <livingtochill> or it was last time i checked
[20:17] <livingtochill> see if this works: http://squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7804
[20:17] <livingtochill> i was getting an error
[20:17] <alkisg> !info etoys lucid
[20:17] <alkisg> !info etoys
[20:18] <livingtochill> squeakland.org has version 4
[20:18] <alkisg> Hmmm 3.0.2177 on the site...
[20:18] <alkisg> ? where?
[20:18] <livingtochill> http://squeakland.org/download/
[20:18] <alkisg> Ah I only saw the older version at the bottom :D
[20:18] <livingtochill> choose the etoys to go version
[20:18] <alkisg> http://squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7804 => 500 Servlet Exception
[20:18] <livingtochill> etoys ships standard on the olpc computers
[20:19] <livingtochill> bummer
[20:19] <livingtochill> it's a jeopardy-style game
[20:19] <livingtochill> nothing better than a quia.com game, but I made it myself and it's good for standardized test review
[20:19] <livingtochill> I have a tic-tac-toe game,as well
[20:20] <livingtochill> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaCncmnVIAE
[20:21] <alkisg> livingtochill: if people are using this, and Lucid ships with and older package, we could make a version-4 package and put it to the edubuntu ppa...
[20:21] <alkisg> (to be easier to install)
[20:21] <livingtochill> easier = better
[20:21] <livingtochill> the idea of etoys to go, though, is that you don't install it
[20:22] <alkisg> Well the idea of packages is that you get updates :)
[20:22] <livingtochill> it's a bit buggy, though, as to where it stores its files
[20:22] <alkisg> Even the packaged version?
[20:22] <livingtochill> no, the packaged version is cool.
[20:22] <livingtochill> version 4 does a good job at scaling projects across different screen resolutions
[20:22] <livingtochill> as my eeepc has taught me
[20:23] <alkisg> OK, we could package the 4 version then, no problem there...
[20:23]  * alkisg wonders what version debian testing has...
[20:24] <alkisg> Heh, it even has Greek translations! Nice!
[20:24] <livingtochill> it's a nice package
[20:24] <livingtochill> great for school
[20:24] <livingtochill> check out www.waveplace.com
[20:25] <livingtochill> that guy has been teaching etoys to kids in the caribbean
[20:25] <livingtochill> he's got nice tutorial videos
[20:28] <livingtochill> Man, I haven't been on IRC in YEARS.
[20:28] <livingtochill> I was searching and searching for an educators channel, but not enough teachers are technical enough to access this, I guess.
[20:28] <livingtochill> not in the states, at least
[20:34] <alkisg> #edubuntu is also at a low ebb these times... :-/
[20:34] <livingtochill> boo
[20:34] <livingtochill> but true
[20:34] <alkisg> Some years ago many more people were hanging around here... I hope we can make it better again in the future
[20:35] <livingtochill> I wish educators were better about collaborating.
[20:35] <livingtochill> Not even just ubuntu users
[20:35] <alkisg> Right, I know what you mean...
[20:36] <alkisg> I got a forum which is visited regularly by many thousands of Greek informatics teachers
[20:36] <livingtochill> american education is in a sad, sad state
[20:36] <alkisg> Only about 300 of them actually offer content or participate in general :(
[20:36] <livingtochill> but what about math teachers, language arts teachers, science teachers
[20:36] <livingtochill> edupunk is about that, in a way
[20:36] <livingtochill> getting ALL teachers networked
[20:37] <livingtochill> i think everyone just uses twitter
[20:37] <alkisg> Most math, language etc teachers here don't know how to surf the web or join a forum...
[20:37] <livingtochill> but that is so limiting
[20:37] <livingtochill> same here
[20:37] <alkisg> Only the younger teachers are computer literate
[20:37] <livingtochill> but i'm working on that, one teacher at a time
[20:37] <livingtochill> i've put linux into about 10 teachers' classrooms.
[20:38] <livingtochill> replacing their dead computers
[20:38] <livingtochill> and i'm giving this presentation on wednesday
[20:38] <alkisg> Heh, nice, but what about support?
[20:38] <livingtochill> edupunk is also about doing it yourself.  ;)
[20:38] <alkisg> Do they call you when they have problems?
[20:38] <livingtochill> yes, they do
[20:38] <livingtochill> each school has a "technology coordinator" who is supposed to do just that job
[20:38] <livingtochill> unfortunately, ours are stupid
[20:38] <alkisg> I also helped a lot of teachers here to switch to ubuntu/ltsp, so I guess I'm an edupunk too :P
[20:38] <livingtochill> the teachers know this and call me, instead
[20:39] <livingtochill> YOU ROCK!
[20:39] <alkisg> Unfortunately here the informatics teacher has also sysadmin duties :-/
[20:39] <livingtochill> Our informatics teacher (we just call her the computer teacher) is a big fat woman who looks like she's always pregnant and has never heard of linux
[20:39] <alkisg> ...so I'm trying to make a click-and-install remix of edubuntu/ltsp to give to them
[20:40] <livingtochill> ooh
[20:40] <livingtochill> that should be cool
[20:40] <alkisg> I know exactly what a greek computer teacher needs, so I'm trying to offer them that out of the box
[20:41] <livingtochill> what about regular content area teachers?  Do you support them, as well?  Do they have computers in their classrooms?
[20:41] <alkisg> I hope I'll have it ready by Lucid...
[20:42] <alkisg> The 12-y.o. students here were ALL given a netbook by the edu ministry
[20:42] <livingtochill> wow.
[20:42] <alkisg> And they're supposedly being taught 4 lessons with the help of computers
[20:42] <livingtochill> the whole country?
[20:42] <alkisg> Yes
[20:42] <livingtochill> awesome
[20:42] <alkisg> It's the first grade of secondary school
[20:42] <livingtochill> are they theirs to keep for their whole life?
[20:42] <alkisg> Yes.
[20:42] <livingtochill> is this going to happen every year?
[20:43] <alkisg> And we were able to put dual boot windows/linux on its specifications
[20:43] <livingtochill> do the schools have WiFi?
[20:43] <livingtochill> screw that.  save cash and drop Windows.
[20:43] <alkisg> Not yet... some parents were against this
[20:43] <alkisg> It's not up to us :(
[20:43] <livingtochill> the netbooks or the wifi?
[20:43] <alkisg> The wifi
[20:43] <livingtochill> safety issues?
[20:44] <alkisg> Health issues, I imagine...
[20:44] <livingtochill> wow.
[20:44] <livingtochill> is there research backing that up?
[20:44] <alkisg> They hope they'll be able to offer netbooks every year, but I'm not sure they'll be able to do it. Greek economy is a mess, and I don't know if the EU will keep sponsoring it...
[20:45] <livingtochill> Some schools in the states are doing netbooks
[20:45] <alkisg> Nope, parents and media here don't listen to reasearchers a lot :D
[20:45] <livingtochill> but i teach in memphis, which is VERY poor
[20:46] <livingtochill> Have you ever read The Magus by John Fowles?
[20:50] <alkisg> Nope, I'm not much of a books person. I've only read some Stephen King books and the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy...
[20:51] <livingtochill> it's set in greece and the main character is an englishman teaching english for the british council.  Good read.
[20:52] <livingtochill> not at all relevant to our discussion, but just a cool sidenote.
[20:52] <livingtochill> since the kids will all have netbooks, do you think you'll use moodle or something?
[20:52] <alkisg> Well.... I think it's too "early" for moodle
[20:53] <alkisg> The teachers and the students here are not ready to use it properly
[20:53] <livingtochill> give it time, i guess.  It's a good way to structure online learning, though.
[20:53] <alkisg> I *am* using a blog to give exercises to my students, but I imagine that only a handful of secondary school teachers here do that.
[20:54] <livingtochill> I use a google group.
[20:54] <livingtochill> groups.google.com/group/mrfowles
[20:54] <livingtochill> and we use google docs extensively
[20:54] <livingtochill> it's really fun.  I can give them instant feedback.
[20:55] <alkisg> I'd like to try cooperating with empathy the next time I get a chance
[20:55] <alkisg> Empathy has a "people nearby" function which should be useful
[20:55] <livingtochill> ooh.  i've not used empathy.
[20:56] <alkisg> E.g. send/receive files, messages, remote desktop etc
[20:56] <livingtochill> i switched back to pidgin
[20:56] <alkisg> The students can share URLs... typical IM stuff, but with automatic people discovery
[20:56] <livingtochill> that should be cool
[20:56] <alkisg> ...and I'm trying to make a classroom control app
[20:57] <livingtochill> controlaula and italc not enough?
[20:57] <alkisg> Nope
[20:57] <alkisg> controlaula is too unstable for me, and italc doesn't do enough
[20:57] <livingtochill> what more do you want from italc?
[20:58] <alkisg> E.g. I want to be able to automatically create user accounts, put some bookmarks on them, send them some files, ...
[20:58] <livingtochill> gotcha.
[20:58] <alkisg> ...you know, if a plugin framework is made, I guess tens of plugins would be made
[20:59] <livingtochill> suppose so
[20:59] <alkisg> Have you used controlaula?
[20:59] <livingtochill> tried, but didn't succeed
[20:59] <alkisg> Yup, same here.
[21:00] <alkisg> And it doesn't even uninstall whatever it installs...
[21:00] <alkisg> I had to delete the avahi service it made manually, and lots of other stuff
[21:01] <livingtochill> i didn't really check it that deeply
[21:02] <livingtochill> what do you think it would take to get your older teachers to use technology?
[21:02] <alkisg> Money :P
[21:03] <livingtochill> ah
[21:03] <alkisg> They gave a netbook to whoever teacher offered to teach the students with the netbooks
[21:03] <livingtochill> but without wifi....
[21:03] <alkisg> All teachers, including ones that didn't know anything about computers, offered to do so :)
[21:04] <livingtochill> for the free computer, no doubt
[21:04] <alkisg> It's difficult to persuade a 50 y.o. teacher to change his teaching habbits
[21:04] <livingtochill> some would argue that it is necessary to do just that
[21:05] <livingtochill> in the states, we have this sense that we are going straight to hell in a handbasket and it's largely the fault of the teachers
[21:05] <livingtochill> We have many good teachers, young and old.  Same with bad.
[21:05] <alkisg> Really? I thought the states had a pretty good education system...
[21:05] <alkisg> (after finland :) but still, good enough...)
[21:05] <livingtochill> We have good universities.
[21:06] <livingtochill> Our urban schools are pretty bad.
[21:06] <livingtochill> Many are extremely violent.
[21:06] <alkisg> Ouch
[21:06] <livingtochill> my girlfriend works at a school that is nicknamed "little iraq"
[21:07] <livingtochill> Chicago is a hellhole: http://www.catalyst-chicago.org/notebook/index.php/entry/412/Violence_on_the_rise_inside_Chicago_high_schools
[21:07] <alkisg> The worse thing here is that we have some private "schools" called "frontisteria", where students go to learn only the lessons that they are examined in, when they want to be accepted to univercities,
[21:08] <livingtochill> no extra classes?
[21:08] <alkisg> so the students don't pay attention at all at the regular school, because they think they'll learn all they need from the "frontisteria" at afternoons
[21:09] <alkisg> So for a student it is 7 hours in the morning of regular, obligatory school (=wasted time for him),
[21:09] <livingtochill> eww
[21:09] <alkisg> and 4-5 hours of "frontisteria" in the afternoon (they pay a lot of money there)
[21:09] <livingtochill> are these kids generally from wealthy families?
[21:09] <alkisg> Nope. All students do that in 15-18 age
[21:09] <livingtochill> Korean schools have similar programs, but the kids are rather attentive at both places.
[21:10] <livingtochill> Do they take an English test?
[21:10] <alkisg> They have 2-3 hours of english lessons at regular school, but again, they don't pay attention
[21:11] <alkisg> So they go to "frontisteria" from 10 y.o. to 18 y.o. and get a proficiency in english from there...
[21:11] <livingtochill> interesting
[21:11] <alkisg> (that's in addition to the 4-5 hours of afternoon lessons... :-/)
[21:11] <livingtochill> so the regular schools have to really step up if they're going to reach the kids
[21:11] <alkisg> It's a mess
[21:12] <alkisg> No, we have to change the way the students are admitted to univercities
[21:12] <alkisg> The exams as they are now are a curse
[21:12] <alkisg> But the "frontisteria" teachers oppose to that, because they'll be out of job then
[21:12] <livingtochill> what are they like?  I'm familiar with Polish exams, but none other in Europe.
[21:14] <alkisg> When the students are 18 y.o. they are examined and graded in 4-6 lessons,
[21:14] <alkisg> and then they choose univercities based solely on that grade
[21:14] <livingtochill> not too different from Poland.  A huge exam at the end.
[21:14] <alkisg> So kids from 15 y.o. and up are only thinking about those exams... :-/
[21:14] <livingtochill> do the kids cheat a lot?
[21:14] <alkisg> No, not in those exams
[21:15] <livingtochill> so not like Poland, then.  ;)
[21:15] <alkisg> Heh :D
[21:16] <alkisg> How are students admitted to univercities in the states?
[21:16] <livingtochill> 4 factors,usually
[21:17] <livingtochill> 1.  high school grades
[21:17] <livingtochill> 2.  ACT or SAT score
[21:17] <livingtochill> 3.  Personal experience (volunteering, scouting, or other things like that)
[21:17] <alkisg> Wow
[21:17] <livingtochill> 4.  an essay (for better schools)
[21:17] <livingtochill> the first two are the most important, of course
[21:18] <alkisg> But all the grades are counted, not just the last year's grades, right?
[21:18] <livingtochill> correct
[21:18] <livingtochill> grade point average
[21:18] <alkisg> That's what I'd like to happen to Greece :(
[21:19] <alkisg> This huge exams that we have is destroying everything :(
[21:19] <livingtochill> gotta get running.  good talking to you.
[21:20] <alkisg> Bye!
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