[00:00] <dpic> yeah, i think most people are understanding and supportive
[00:00] <rickspencer3> we also discussed games and a few other things, like bringing pitivi onto the CD
[00:06] <dpic> rickspencer3: thanks, watching the video and found the logs: http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-riogrande.log
[00:22] <dpic> rickspencer3: also, has the name "Software Center" been discussed? Most users see software as a technical term and say "App"
[00:23] <rickspencer3> dpic, it has been discussed to the extreme
[00:23] <rickspencer3> it's not "App" because you can get some things in it that aren't apps (like codecs)
[00:23] <dpic> ah, understood
[00:23] <rickspencer3> I'm not advocating this, just passing along the info
[00:23] <dpic> still think that was a bad move =]
[00:24] <dpic> new users aren't going to care about that, or know the difference
[00:24] <dpic> we don't need to be overly technical
[00:24] <rickspencer3> you can ask mpt for details, but I think this is an area that has been "adequately dicussed" ;)
[00:24] <dpic> yeah haha
[00:24] <rickspencer3> not saying I disagree with you ... just I'm not driving that naming, and I'm not reopening the issue :P
[00:33] <fagan_> dpic: http://blip.tv/file/2876109
[00:33] <fagan_> Thats the UDS session about this ^
[00:34] <dpic> right, i've been watching
[00:34] <dpic> =]
[00:41] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - i've just tested your transmission update, and it all seems ok
[00:41] <chrisccoulson> i'll push to BZR now, but probably wait until after alpha 1 to upload now
[00:41]  * fagan_ will test it when it lands
[00:42] <chrisccoulson> fagan_ - test transmission?
[00:42] <fagan_> yep
[00:42] <chrisccoulson> it will be in bzr in about 30 seconds
[00:42] <fagan_> ah ill wait till its in the repo
[00:43] <fagan_> no rush because no one is using lucid yet
[00:43] <chrisccoulson> i'd probably disagree with that, seeing as we get bug reports from people using lucid already ;)
[00:43] <fagan_> Im on lucid
[00:44] <chrisccoulson> i'm on karmic, with a lucid VM
[00:44] <chrisccoulson> i can't run lucid when i only own 1 computer, and my girlfriend needs to use this too :-/
[00:44] <chrisccoulson> i need to get myself a netbook
[00:44] <fagan_> I want to get an always innovating touch book
[04:14] <johanbr> kenvandine, are you around?
[04:14] <kenvandine> johanbr, yup
[04:14] <kenvandine> johanbr, what's up?
[04:14] <johanbr> since you seem to be Ubuntu's main empathy/telepathy guy...
[04:15] <johanbr> have you seen the music sharing plugin for rhythmbox?
[04:15] <johanbr> if so, do you have an opinion on that?
[04:30] <kenvandine> i haven't really looked at it
[04:30] <kenvandine> does it use tubes?
[04:30] <johanbr> yes
[04:31] <kenvandine> got a link?
[04:31] <johanbr> http://alban.apinc.org/blog/2009/09/05/share-your-music-to-your-im-contacts-with-rhythmbox-and-telepathy/
[04:31] <johanbr> it worked for me when I tested, but I haven't played with it much
[04:32] <johanbr> does seem like a cool thing to have though, provided that it works well enough
[04:34] <kenvandine> i'll take a look
[04:34] <kenvandine> thx!
[04:34] <johanbr> thank you for looking :)
[05:53] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, hey, I have a note here that I was going to help you with something but I don't have what.  Is there anything you are expecting from me?
[06:59] <didrocks> hey robert_ancell
[06:59] <robert_ancell> didrocks, hey
[06:59] <didrocks> how is your OEM journey? ;)
[07:00] <robert_ancell> didrocks, slowly transferring over.  Got a Dell mini today to test with
[07:00] <didrocks> oh, nice toy
[07:22] <pitti> Good morning
[07:29] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[07:34] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:41] <baptistemm> bonjour
[07:42] <didrocks> lut baptistemm
[07:44] <baptistemm> salut didrocks
[07:45] <baptistemm> so you're going to work for ubuntu?N
[07:55] <didrocks> baptistemm: I'm already working on ubuntu from a long time as part of the community :) but if you mean working at Canonical, indeed, you're right :)
[07:55] <baptistemm> cool for you, you deserve it
[07:56] <didrocks> thanks a lot :)
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: thank you for fixing stracciatella-session!
[07:59] <didrocks> pitti: you're welcome :)
[08:01] <tjaalton> what's up with gdm? all I get is a blank screen with the mouse cursor
[08:09] <baptistemm> tjaalton, this is the price to pay to run a development version
[08:09] <baptistemm> :)
[08:09] <pitti> tjaalton: does it start at all?
[08:10] <tjaalton> pitti: now it works. had to reboot
[08:10] <tjaalton> after dist-upgrade my mouse&kbd didn't work after a logout, so rebooted. that dropped it in failsafe
[08:11] <tjaalton> and that didn't work at all, so maybe the hw was confused and refused to work without a new reboot
[08:11] <tjaalton> baptistemm: quite aware of that, trying to minimize the damage here ;)
[08:33] <pitti> Keybuk: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20091208/lucid-desktop-i386.manifest -> no hal *grin*
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:44] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks! how about you?
[08:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: check out today's i386 desktop -- no hal :)
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm ok too. although, i slept in a bit this morning
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> yay, no hal! \o/
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> pitti - did you notice i subscribed you to a gnome-panel crasher last night?
[08:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I did, will look at it soon
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> are we frozen for alpha 1 yet?
[08:51] <pitti> soft freeze, yes
[08:51] <pitti> so upload with care
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no problem. i wasn't sure whether to upload transmission or not this morning, so i left it for now
[08:55] <pitti> if you tested it, go ahead
[08:55] <pitti> but please avoid library transitions, or stuff which affects other applications
[08:55] <pitti> transmission sounds fine
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i won't be able to do it now that i'm at work unfortunately
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> although the work is in bzr now
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:16] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:17] <seb128> got a frozen screen on resume this morning
[09:17] <seb128> and corrupted video on first boot
[09:17] <seb128> I'm wondering if that's bad luck or due to the recent updates
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - what do you think about bug 493573? it seems users aren't happy that gnome-screensaver only works in gnome now. would it be acceptable for someone to supply a patch to make it work, bearing in mind that upstream probably won't accept it?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> (although i wasn't intending to do it, but I get the impression that's what other people want to do)
[09:25] <seb128> why wouldn't upstream accept it?
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> upstream deliberately changed it and moved all of the idle detection out of gnome-screensaver
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> to put it in to gnome-session
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure they'd revert it all back again
[09:26] <seb128> I wouldn't want to do something against upstream there
[09:26] <seb128> at least not if that implies non trivial code changes
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> it definately wouldn't be a trivial code change
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - debian have made gnome-screensaver depend on gnome-session now. perhaps we should just do the same?
[09:28] <seb128> I can see people complaining ;-)
[09:28] <seb128> I've no strong opinion, at least Recommends yes
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> yeah, a recommends would probably be better, as you can still lock the screen without gnome-session, but there's no idle detection
[09:31] <pitti> hey seb128, bonjour
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, hey ;-) how are you?
[09:31] <pitti> so, radeon driver is busted and ubiquity crashes, but hal-less desktop live system starts up just fine
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
[09:37] <tjaalton> pitti: how is radeon broken?
[09:38] <pitti> tjaalton: usplash looks totally scrambled (it's not using KMS yet), then X starts up fine, and switching to VT1 and back gives a white screen
[09:38] <pitti> I think it's been like that in hardy already
[09:38] <tjaalton> pitti: ah, ok
[09:38] <seb128_> re
[09:38] <pitti> so, not a regression except the framebuffer bit
[09:38] <seb128_> what did you get before my disconnect?
[09:38] <pitti> seb128 | pitti, hey ;-) how are you?
[09:38] <pitti> nothing else
[09:39] <didrocks> hey seb128_
[09:40] <seb128_> lut didrocks
[09:40] <seb128_> pitti, ok thanks, I added a note about you maybe breaking dbus but that's not the case
[09:40] <seb128_> epiphany build fails on
[09:40] <seb128_>  "/usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h:29:33: error: dbus/dbus-arch-deps.h: No such file or directory"
[09:40] <pitti> seb128_: I did break d-bus
[09:40] <seb128_> but libdbus-1-dev is getting installed
[09:40] <seb128_> so that's weird
[09:40] <pitti> I'm currently working on that
[09:40] <pitti> sorry for the mess
[09:40] <seb128_> ok thanks
[09:40]  * seb128_ hugs pitti
[09:41] <pitti> seb128_: btw, I committed changes to control-center and gnome-applets bzr today to drop the nonexisting libgnomekbdui b-deps
[09:41] <pitti> I wondered whether I should merge the packages, or just upload
[09:41] <seb128_> if you ask me ... ;-)
[09:41] <pitti> c-c doesn't even seem worth merging to me, we have too many changes
[09:41] <seb128_> right, don't bother
[09:41] <seb128_> but do we need an upload?
[09:41] <pitti> applets is somewhat borderline
[09:42] <seb128_> the libgnomekbd provide should preserve installability
[09:42] <pitti> seb128_: no, not urgent; with the provides: in place they are not uninstallable
[09:42] <pitti> I just wondered
[09:42] <seb128_> I would not bother
[09:42] <seb128_> well I did decide to not bother yesterday and wait for the next upload
[09:42] <seb128_> thanks for fixing the build-depends in bzr in any case
[09:42] <seb128_> don't bother merging either
[09:42] <seb128_> those packages are a time waster
[09:43] <seb128_> hours to merge and nothing interesting to bring
[09:43] <pitti> exactly
[09:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: should I upload transmission for you?
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> pitti - if you don't mind :)
[09:54] <didrocks> une session seems to work well (it's a little bit more generic: choosing gconf path and autostart .desktop file depending on choosen gdm session)
[10:08] <seb128> re
[10:09] <seb128> pitti, in case I didn't tell it today yet, you rock! ;-)
[10:09] <seb128> thanks for fixing usb-creator in lucid
[10:09] <pitti> :) thank you
[10:09]  * seb128 had been rebooting on karmic livecds to write isos...
[10:09] <pitti> it annoyed me that it was broken
[10:11] <seb128> update-manager dist-upgrader is the suck on the mini10v
[10:11] <seb128> the "cleaning" step takes some 5 to 10 minutes every day
[10:11] <seb128> just to calculate what should be cleaned or something
[10:17] <mvo> seb128: in partial upgrade mode?
[10:18] <seb128> mvo, dunno how you call that, the dist-upgrader like mode you get when there is package shuffling that normal upgrade doesn't want to do
[10:18] <seb128> after doing a refresh you get that dialog with "dist-upgrade" or "close" on middle of screen
[10:19] <seb128> not sure I'm clear...
[10:19] <mvo> seb128: yeah, I know what you mean
[10:19] <mvo> seb128: hmm, could you send me the /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log please? I would like to see what its doing there, that should be in the log
[10:20] <seb128> mvo, no main.log in that dir
[10:20] <seb128> only apt.log
[10:22] <seb128> mvo, it's calculating things for sure because it wants to remove build-essential and some 30 other binaries for a week now
[10:23] <mvo> seb128: ok, give me a minute to look at the code
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: fixed dbus uploaded, btw
[10:38] <seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
[10:41] <seb128> weekly bootchart: http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091208-1.png
[10:42] <pitti> chrisccoulson: weird, I didn't get bug mail for bug 493788  subscription, so thanks for the IRC ping
[10:42] <pitti> hrmpf
[10:43] <pitti> I get a million useless "branch linked" and other stuff every day from Launchpad, but not the important ones..
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: nice, 21 s? that's another second
[10:43] <seb128> pitti, yes
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: it still has hal
[10:43] <seb128> it shouldn't?
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: would you mind purging it (it's not on today's i386 iso any more)
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: well, it's a dist-upgrade (I guess), and it's not removed automatically
[10:44] <pitti> seb128: I'm curious about what difference it actually makes
[10:44] <seb128> done
[10:44] <seb128> rebooting
[10:45] <pitti> yay
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: sorry for having to do all this benchmarking for us..
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: robbie said he'd send me a mini 10 as well for testing
[10:45] <seb128> that's ok, it doesn't cost lot of work, it's just rebooting the box ;-)
[10:45] <seb128> cool
[10:46] <seb128> robert_ancell got one yesterday
[10:46] <mvo> seb128: ok, so I think the issue is that it is extra careful when removing, I see what can be done about it
[10:49] <mvo> seb128: could you please check http://paste.ubuntu.com/337166/ and see if that makes a difference?
[10:50] <mvo> seb128: I have no idea how the whole stuff (s-c, u-m) performs on atom, I don't have the HW
[10:50] <mvo> seb128: let me know if the patch makes a difference (no rush :)
[10:50] <mvo> seb128: you can trigger it with "sudo update-manager --dist-upgrade"
[10:51] <seb128> mvo, ok, will try in a minute still doing bootcharts
[10:55] <seb128> pitti, seems to be around 0.5 seconds win
[10:55] <pitti> ah, that's about what I expected
[10:56] <pitti> since it's not actually using much CPU
[10:56] <pitti> we seem to get improvements in doses of half a second :)
[10:56] <seb128> right
[10:56] <seb128> stile 20 of those to go ;-)
[10:56] <seb128> still
[10:56] <pitti> is that new chart anywhere?
[10:56] <seb128> one sec
[10:56] <pitti> well, Keybuk's automatic charts will grab it today
[10:57] <seb128> I'm doing several to make sure
[10:57] <seb128> I've fluctuation from about one second between charts sometime
[10:57] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/
[10:57] <seb128> so I tend to do several ones and take the medium one
[10:57] <pitti> right, seems to be ~ 0.5 seconds as well
[10:57] <pitti> 1.2 second win on rotary
[10:59] <pitti> seb128, Keybuk: just to avoid confusion, the X.org CPU just coincides with X clients doing stuff, so we can by and large ignore this, right?
[10:59] <seb128> pitti, it's rather closer from a second after some charts
[10:59] <seb128> between 0.5 and 0.8, rather toward 0.8
[11:00] <seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091208-5.png
[11:00] <seb128> it's a medium one
[11:00] <seb128> the next one is slightly better the previous slightly slower
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: btw, is the thing booted right now? Mind trying the brightness keys?
[11:00] <seb128> brightness works
[11:01] <seb128> but it's intel hardware
[11:01] <seb128> so it's easy ;-)
[11:02] <pitti> well, xbacklight doesn't work on mine
[11:02] <seb128> urg
[11:02] <seb128> keyboard is not working now
[11:02] <pitti> but if you don't have hal installed, you need xbacklight
[11:02] <seb128> can't type
[11:02] <seb128> no letter go through
[11:02] <pitti> uh
[11:02] <pitti> does the mouse work?
[11:02] <seb128> yes
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: mind ctrl+alt+f1 and checking/pastebin'ing /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[11:03] <seb128> and keyboard does things, it opened some dialogs
[11:03] <seb128> like I did some shortcuts
[11:03] <seb128> I'm just rebooting to see if that was a one time thing
[11:03] <seb128> working now
[11:03] <seb128> weird
[11:05] <pitti> tjaalton had something similar
[11:05] <seb128> also layout is us in the Xorg.log now
[11:05] <seb128> where it was fr half an hour ago
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no problem :)
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> i wasn't sure whether to just assign the bug to you or not ;)
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> but i wouldn't do that without asking anyway
[11:05] <seb128> or rather yesterday
[11:06] <seb128> so today's update, likely xorg, made keyboard being us rather than fr
[11:06] <seb128> I don't notice it because the gconf config kicks in
[11:06] <seb128> but seems buggy
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: can you please send me "udevadm info --export-db"?
[11:06] <pitti> I have a totally hacked system right now, so it might just work for me by coincidence
[11:07] <pitti> (self-built x server, xorg-edgers, etc.)
[11:07] <pitti> I'm going to reinstall my box tomorrow for alpha-1 testing
[11:08] <didrocks> about default session in gdm: I was thinking that maybe using a gconf key would be more compliant with "new GDM" way than a config file. What do you think about that?
[11:08] <seb128> pitti, ok, one sec
[11:09] <seb128> didrocks, the daemon doesn't use gconf, it's only the greeter
[11:09] <didrocks> seb128: oh ok, g_key_file* will be my friend so :)
[11:09] <seb128> design decision to limit libs etc in the daemon side
[11:10] <didrocks> thanks
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> and we've already shown that using gconf is horrendously slow ;)
[11:13] <tjaalton> pitti: actually, the XKB settings aren't set here either
[11:14]  * pitti test-boots current daily and checks udev rules
[11:14] <seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/log
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: indeed, no XKB* there
[11:14] <pitti> tjaalton, seb128: checking..
[11:15] <tjaalton> pitti: perhaps s/IMPORT{file}/IMPORT{program}/?
[11:16] <pitti> tjaalton: hah, that would be it :)
[11:16] <pitti> sorry for not spotting that yesterday
[11:16] <tjaalton> hehe
[11:16] <seb128> pitti, do you want a bug about that?
[11:16] <tjaalton> I'm fixing it already
[11:17] <pitti> if tjaalton can fix it right now, no need I think
[11:17] <seb128> tjaalton, thanks, you rock ;-)
[11:17] <pitti> tjaalton: btw, do the package call udevadm trigger to update udev without a reboot?
[11:17] <pitti> udevadm trigger --action=change --property-match=ID_INPUT_KEY=1
[11:17] <pitti> something like that
[11:18] <tjaalton> pitti: there probably is something missing since they didn't work after a logout
[11:18] <tjaalton> mouse&kbd, at all
[11:18] <pitti> call it again with
[11:18] <pitti> udevadm trigger --action=change --property-match=ID_INPUT_MOUSE=1
[11:19] <tjaalton> well, hard to reproduce now :)
[11:19] <tjaalton> it was after the dist-upgrade
[11:21] <tjaalton> hmm, can't see any triggers in the drivers
[11:22] <pitti> they should be added
[11:22] <tjaalton> xserver-xorg handles it
[11:22] <tjaalton> udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=input --action=change
[11:22] <tjaalton> probably best to have them in the drivers..
[11:23] <tjaalton> jcristau pondered about that the other day
[11:23] <pitti> it should be in whatever ships udev rules
[11:24] <tjaalton> yes, because in my case xserver-xorg was configure before evdev
[11:24] <tjaalton> configured
[11:24] <tjaalton> probably for seb128 too
[11:26] <seb128> mvo, ok, I've applied your change, I will tell you how it goes next time I've updates available
[11:26] <pitti> tjaalton: so file->program seems to do the trick for me
[11:26] <seb128> mvo, btw it uses also full cpu for some 15 seconds to say that no update is available
[11:26] <tjaalton> pitti: yep, uploading
[11:27] <pitti> tjaalton: cheers
[11:28] <seb128> mvo, in fact it's some 38 seconds to tell me that my system is uptodate
[11:28] <seb128> and during that time the dialog is dimmed twice, the compiz way to tell the application is not responding
[11:47]  * Amaranth remember people filing bugs against compiz for the fadeout when inactive proving their apps were blocking on IO
[11:48] <Amaranth> They didn't want to admit it was a bad thing but they also didn't want the user to notice :)
[12:00] <andreasn> mpt: who admins http://identi.ca/ubuntudesigners ?
[12:02] <seb128> hum
[12:02] <seb128> to somewhat put some different perspective after all the mini charting
[12:02] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-laptop-lucid-20091208-3.png
[12:02] <seb128> that's on my laptop config
[12:03] <seb128> that one is very io bounded
[12:03] <seb128> login takes around 35 seconds...
[12:04] <mpt> andreasn, me, why?
[12:04] <Amaranth> ouch
[12:04] <andreasn> it linked to my blog about the menu icons
[12:04] <pitti> seb128: do you know how long karmic took?
[12:05] <andreasn> so I guess I'll have to admin a couple of more comments/rants on the new default now :)
[12:05] <mpt> andreasn, yes. :-) I've been trying to do that for weeks, but Twitter took ages to realize that your site didn't contain malware any more
[12:06] <seb128> pitti, the bootcharts from uds are around 75 seconds
[12:06] <pitti> seb128: ugh, that looks painful -- almost no I/O throughput and few CPU blocks
[12:06] <seb128> boot I mean
[12:06] <pitti> wow, it halved since karmic?
[12:07] <andreasn> that reminds me that I should probably update it to the latest wordpress version
[12:07] <mvo> seb128: much cpu> hm, ok
[12:07] <seb128> pitti, no, 62 seconds against 75 seconds
[12:07] <pitti> oh, "login"
[12:08] <seb128> login is around the same
[12:09] <seb128> like 34 seconds against 38 seconds
[12:09] <seb128> that was karmic with the ureadahead changes though
[12:09] <seb128> before that it was over 90 seconds
[12:10] <seb128> with login taking some 48 seconds
[12:10] <seb128> hum
[12:10] <seb128> the laptop boot chart is interesting
[12:11] <seb128> it show lot of small things taking one second
[12:11] <seb128> like a Xsession.d dpkg call
[12:11] <seb128> or g-s-d calling xrdb
[12:11] <seb128> that's from the xsettings code
[12:18] <asac> in the past i could use alt+tab ... to go foward in window list and alt+shift+tab to go backwards. the latter doesnt work by default in karmic?
[12:23] <seb128> asac, I think it's a known compiz bug
[12:24] <asac> kk
[12:36] <mvo> mpt: hi, do you have a moment to do a string review with me? I need three strings: http://paste.ubuntu.com/337206/ . those are error conditions. the first is "software in a channel that needs to be enabled first"
[12:36] <mvo> mpt: the second "we have the data via app-install-data-ubuntu, but its not available from the apt cache (e.g. on the livecd where universe,multiverse are not enabled)
[12:37] <mvo> mpt: and the last is for the case where we have the software, but not for the given arch
[12:37] <mvo> mpt: the first two have "enable channel" and "Reload package information" as buttons (better captions are welcome too)
[12:40] <mpt> mvo, the difficulty with the first is that we have "Software Sources". I agree it's a good idea to switch to the term "channels", but probably we should do that all at once, rather than using two terms for the same thing in the same release
[12:41] <mpt> mvo, so how about we stick to "source" until we have time to revamp Software Sources?
[12:41] <mvo> mpt: sure, that is fine with me
[12:41] <mpt> mvo, where does that first string appear exactly? That determines whether it's ok for it not to be a complete sentence
[12:43] <mpt> (or where *would* it appear, I mean)
[12:43] <mvo> mpt: http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Ubuntu%20Software%20Center.png
[12:43] <mvo> mpt: that is the context around it
[12:44] <mpt> mvo, the third one is specced at the end of <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#get-item-screen>: "Sorry, <Title> is not available for this type of computer (<Architecture>)."
[12:44] <mvo> cool, thanks. I change it accordingly
[12:45] <mpt> hmm, "enable"
[12:47] <mpt> mvo, for the first one, how about something like: "This software is available from the “{source}” source, which you are not currently using."
[12:48] <mpt> mvo, is it easy to get a short name for the source?
[12:49] <mpt> e.g. "This software is available from the “partner” source, which you are not currently using."
[12:49] <mvo> mpt: yes, short is easy
[12:49] <mvo> mpt: yeah, no problem
[12:49] <mpt> ok, cool
[12:50] <mpt> Then the button can be "Use This Source"
[12:50] <mvo> "Use the Source"
[12:50] <mvo> ;)
[12:50] <mpt> heh
[12:50]  * mvo wonders if we have have a jedi translation
[12:50] <seb128> I was pondering doing the joke ;-)
[12:51]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[12:51] <mvo> lol
[12:51] <mpt> If we don't, we should
[12:54] <mpt> mvo, as for that second string, that's pretty icky. Have you and glatzor been able to sort out a way to reload the data without sudo?
[12:55] <mvo> mpt: even if we could we still should not do that without asking IMO because the user may be on 3G, need his bandwith for something else, does not have network at all, etc
[12:56] <mvo> mpt: its a corner case, but because of the livecd a important one (well, we should fix the livecd, but there are space constrains here)
[12:56] <mpt> mvo, true, but similarly we should not tell people to do something without letting them do it.
[12:56] <mvo> mpt: right, there is a action button in the page too (that read "Reload")
[12:57] <mpt> ah, great
[12:57] <mvo> mpt: do you think it should be a dialog instead?
[12:57] <mvo> mpt: aha, ok. I can give you a screenshot if you want
[12:57] <mpt> no, but "Update" might be more understandable
[12:57] <mvo> yeah, "Update package information" ? or is that too technical?
[12:59] <mpt> mvo, in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#broken-catalog> I called it the "package catalog", but I guess "software catalog" would be even better.
[13:00] <mvo> mpt: ok, so its "Update Software Catalog"
[13:00] <mvo> ?
[13:00] <mpt> that depends on the text before it
[13:00] <mpt> 1st attempt: "The software catalog needs updating to show information about this item."
[13:00] <mpt> hm, that might be backwards
[13:01] <mpt> "Information about this item can’t be shown until the software catalog is updated."
[13:01] <mpt> "To show information about this item, the software catalog needs updating."
[13:02] <mvo> the last is best so far IMO, its clear and positive (no not in it)
[13:02] <mpt> ok, let's go with that then
[13:03] <mpt> then the button can just be "Update Now"
[13:04] <mvo> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Ubuntu%20Software%20Center-2.png
[13:04] <mvo> then
[13:05] <mpt> It's a bit weird that we can show you the license and the price but not the description
[13:05] <mpt> (and a screenshot, even!)
[13:06] <mpt> I mean, I understand that technically, but it still looks weird
[13:06] <mpt> but I guess this is to last only as long as app-install-data does
[13:10] <mvo> correct :)
[13:10] <mvo> we could simply hide it entirely too
[13:11] <mpt> nah, it's ok
[13:11] <mvo> ok
[13:12] <mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=270&rev1=269
[13:12] <mpt> Does that all look correct?
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> does anybody spend any time looking at pidgin bugs at all?
[13:15] <mvo> mpt: looks good, code is in bzr too (r445)
[13:15] <mpt> cool
[13:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I used to have a look every now and then but didn't for a while, why?
[13:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw the g-s-d xsettings code call xrdb, not sure if that's something we could avoid doing
[13:29] <didrocks> pitti: I'm adding custom.conf back in my test so, we'll see later how to handle properly the transition hardy->lucid  right? (conffile... that's why mvo removed it during karmic cycle)
[13:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just looked at the pidgin bugs and noticed there are lots of private crash reports
[13:31] <chrisccoulson> i wasn't aware that the g-s-d xsettings plugin called xrdb. i know the xrdb plugin calls it. is it being called twice?
[13:35] <pitti> didrocks: ideally gdm would just support the default session in custom.conf (the upstream bug for that is open)
[13:35] <pitti> instead of our custom.desktop session
[13:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes and no
[13:35] <seb128> sorry I was away a few minutes
[13:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I would not bother cleaning pidgin private bugs
[13:36] <seb128> that will not really pay since nobody look at those anyway
[13:36] <seb128> or do it for selected most common bugs and forward those upstream
[13:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes and no, it could be called twice but xrdb is off by default
[13:37] <seb128> the xsettings code call it to set the xft values only
[13:37] <seb128> not to read the xrdb configs in etc
[13:38] <seb128> I'm not sure how useful that is nowadays
[13:38] <seb128> xft_settings_set_xresources (GnomeXftSettings *settings)
[13:38] <seb128>         command = "xrdb -nocpp -merge";
[13:39] <seb128> and it sets Xft.dpi, Xft.antialias, etc
[13:40] <seb128> asac made a patch to set Xft.lcdfilter too there
[13:40] <seb128> so I think it's useful at least for openoffice.org
[13:40] <asac> yes. ooo had issues in the past that needed it
[13:42] <didrocks> pitti: that's what I'm working on: add this support to custom.conf. The issue is for people upgrading from hardy to lucid (conffile changed)
[13:43] <pitti> didrocks: custom.conf is not a conffile
[13:44] <didrocks> pitti: oh? I've been mislead by this: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/2.27.4-0ubuntu5
[13:45] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps it was a conffile in hardy?
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - how long does xrdb take on your bootchart?
[13:45] <pitti> but then it should still not fail
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> it's unfortunately in a code path in the xsettings plugin which blocks the whole session from loading
[13:45] <didrocks> pitti: maybe, so: I'm adding it and I will test hardy -> lucid upgrade later
[13:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, 0.1 seconds
[13:46] <seb128> on the mini
[13:46] <seb128> almost 2 seconds on my laptop
[13:46] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-laptop-lucid-20091208-3.png
[13:46] <seb128> different perspective with a decent cpu and a slow disk ;-)
[13:50] <Tm_T> seb128: slow disk?
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> eek, that's a long time. but it seems like g-s-d is still doing stuff in parallel
[13:54] <seb128> Tm_T, is that a question?
[13:55] <Tm_T> seb128: let me rephrase, what kind of hardware, if you say its slow disk? just so I know what you mean with that (:
[13:58] <seb128> Tm_T, it's a 7200rpm disk on a d630 laptop config
[13:58] <seb128> it's not the slowest disk around but it's not a fit for a modern ssd
[13:59] <Tm_T> seb128: that's "normal disk" for me then, thanks for clarifying
[13:59]  * Tm_T has no sata nor ssd disks yet
[14:01] <seb128> Tm_T, well, let's say this config is limited by the disk speed where the reference box has a ssd and is limited by cpu
[14:02] <seb128> Keybuk, what sort of hdd do you use on your reference hdd config
[14:03] <seb128> I don't get how it can be 3 times faster than my d630
[14:03] <Tm_T> seb128: roger
[14:20] <pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
[14:20] <rickspencer3> hi pitti, good morning
[14:21] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:22] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[14:31] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 thanks for your testimonials, did you see that I got Ubuntu membership yesterday?
[14:31] <pitti> oooh! congrats!
[14:35] <seb128> rickspencer3, didn't see that, congratulations! ;-)
[14:35] <seb128> pitti, did you say you would merge gvfs?
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: on my list, is it urgent?
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, not urgent, I'm just pondering applying an epiphany-browser workaround or waiting for gvfs to be merged
[14:37] <rickspencer3> hmm, no tseliot
[14:37] <rickspencer3> I hear that KMS + Intel is broken today :/
[14:37] <rickspencer3> pgraner told me ^
[14:37] <seb128> "GVFS-RemoteVolumeMonitor-WARNING **: cannot open directory /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors: Error opening directory '/usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors': No such file or directory
[14:37] <seb128> Multiple definition of tag 'note'
[14:37] <seb128> "
[14:37] <seb128> it breaks this way
[14:37] <pitti> needs a mkdir?
[14:38] <seb128> no
[14:38] <seb128> we install remote-volume-monitors in gvfs-backends
[14:38] <seb128> and debian in gvfs
[14:38] <seb128> and epiphany-browser build-depends on gvfs
[14:38] <seb128> no in fact it doesn't
[14:38] <seb128> I wonder why that is required at all
[14:39] <seb128> but gvfs gets installed on the buildds and that breaks this way without gvfs-backends
[14:40] <seb128> pitti, don't bother I will add the build-depends for now it's cheap to do
[14:40] <pitti> ok, thanks
[14:41] <seb128> the debian way is probably correct though
[14:41] <seb128> the volume monitor seems to be a basis component and not an extra backend
[14:41] <seb128> bratsche, hey
[14:42] <bratsche> Hey seb128, everyone
[14:42] <seb128> bratsche, could you give a quick glance to bug #454234?
[14:43] <seb128> bratsche, the change seems correct to me but I just want to make sure you didn't do the call before init for a reason, like that need to be set earlier in start or something
[14:44] <seb128> bratsche, start at comment #18
[14:44] <seb128> those before are bug triage noise
[14:44] <bratsche> Okay, /me checks it out
[14:45] <bratsche> seb128: The comment #21 said it broke it for him.
[14:45] <seb128> well I think that's random user noise
[14:45] <bratsche> Okay
[14:45]  * bratsche reads
[14:45] <seb128> the patch just moves the call after init I fail to see why that should break anything
[14:45] <bratsche> Yeah, that seems really unlikely.
[14:46] <bratsche> The patch looks like it's probably right.
[14:46] <seb128> ok
[14:46] <seb128> I just wanted to check you didn't put it before init for a reason
[14:46] <seb128> like things needing to be set as soon as possible and init being slow
[14:47] <seb128> bratsche, thanks
[14:47] <bratsche> I think that was probably the general idea, but not that I actually measured init to be slow.
[14:47] <seb128> ok, let's give it good old user testing then
[14:47] <seb128> upload and wait for people to complain
[14:47] <seb128> xsplash is in not set yet in lucid anyway
[14:47] <seb128> things will still change with plymonth etc
[14:48] <bratsche> Yeah.
[14:49] <mac_v> dobey: could you have a look at the update U1 icon , in lp:humanity
[14:49] <mac_v> I'v changed the icon to a folder with cloud for connected  , maybe we could remove the cloud when disconected?
[14:49] <mac_v> disconnected*
[14:51] <dobey> mac_v: i don't know. it's only really an issue for karmic anyway
[14:52] <mac_v> dobey: only for karmic? i didnt understand
[14:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, bryce so what's the story with xserver getting removed on update? is that fixed? is there a bug #?
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: you probably just caught it on a bad time
[14:53] <pitti> it shuold be fixed already
[14:53] <pitti> just don't agree to removing packages when using dist-upgrade :)
[14:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's traditional transition were things are still being built
[14:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, wasn't me, just being asked about it
[14:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, don't use dist-upgrade without reading...
[14:53] <rickspencer3> again, it wasn't me
[14:53] <seb128> were -> where
[14:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, well whoever that was he or she not be doing dist-upgrade and ack without reading on an unstable distro
[14:54] <seb128> not at lot we can do to prevent those
[14:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[14:54] <dobey> mac_v: we're going to be getting rid of the applet for lucid. so it won't even be there.
[14:54] <rickspencer3> it was robbiew, in fact ;)
[14:54] <seb128> the xserver abi changed and everything needs a rebuild
[14:55] <mac_v> dobey: that's awesome... ;)
[14:55] <mac_v> thanks anyway
[14:55] <seb128> in the middle choices are to remove things you need or wait
[14:55] <dobey> mac_v: but it would be nice to fix the "!" issue in karmic
[14:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, tell him to use upgrade rather than dist-upgrade if he wants to avoid trouble ;-)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, nah
[14:55] <rickspencer3> it's his problem
[14:56] <seb128> ok
[14:56] <seb128> I'm fine with that ;-)
[14:56] <rickspencer3> if it were me I would have just worked form VT1 for a while and did a dist-upgrade again later
[14:56] <rickspencer3> ;)
[14:56] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , ok.
[14:56] <seb128> if it were me I would have read what dist-upgrade was asking and not acked the removal :-p
[14:56] <rickspencer3> I know, but not me
[14:56] <dobey> mac_v: because everyone thinks the disconnected icon means there's an error
[14:57] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:57] <seb128> anyway all should be sorted soon if not yet now
[14:57]  * robbiew usually does read...was in a hurry this am
[14:57] <mac_v> dobey: right , will remove the "!" and just make the cloud invisible ;)
[14:57] <seb128> robbiew, well it's especially when you are in a hurry that you want to avoid removing xorg ;-)
[14:58] <dobey> mac_v: that would be bad.
[14:58] <dobey> mac_v: put an [x] or whatever like nm-applet does when disconnected
[14:58] <mac_v> dobey: we dont use the 'x' anywhere :(
[15:01] <mac_v> bah... anyway , its gonna be removed , for lucid
[15:02] <dobey> mac_v: well what does nm look like in humanity for "disconnected"?
[15:03] <mac_v> dobey: for disconnected the connectors are far apart , and for the wireless the towers are empty[like cellphones]
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: are you aware of any command to kindly ask to gdm daemon "please, reload from /etc/gdm/custom.conf". dbus values are kept in memory and it's not that easy for quick testing :)
[15:04] <seb128> didrocks, there is some gdmflexiserver call for that
[15:04] <didrocks> ok, looking at gdmflexiserver options. thanks :)
[15:04] <dobey> mac_v: sad monkey :(
[15:04] <seb128> didrocks, # gdmflexiserver --command="UPDATE_CONFIG <configuration key>"
[15:04] <mac_v> hehe
[15:05] <seb128> didrocks, that was in the old custom config comments
[15:05] <seb128> didrocks, not sure if that still works in the new codebase but that could
[15:05] <didrocks> seb128: I'll check just now :) Perfect if it works
[15:06] <didrocks> hum, No longer supported :/
[15:06] <seb128> try asking on #gdm on irc.gimp
[15:06] <seb128> try asking on #gdm on irc.gimp.org
[15:06] <didrocks> good idea :)
[15:09] <mac_v> dobey: BTW , how is 'x' not an error and '!' any worse ;)
[15:10] <dobey> mac_v: i'll just redirect all complains of "ubuntuone shows an error" to you
[15:12] <mac_v> oh no... ;0
[15:16] <halfline> chrisccoulson: you about?
[15:16] <chrisccoulson> halfline - sort of. i'm at work at the moment though
[15:16] <halfline> oh heh i assumed you worked for canonical
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> halfline - everyone seems to say the same thing!
[15:17] <halfline> chrisccoulson: you probably should be :-)  you've got a lot of talent
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks:)
[15:18] <halfline> chrisccoulson: anyway, i wondering if when you had a free moment if you could try alex's patch on that screensaver bug (gnome bug 598476)
[15:18] <maxb> Has anything changed in karmic-updates compiz lately that would block being able to resize a window across multiple Xinerama screens?
[15:19] <halfline> chrisccoulson: obviously  since you're at work right now, now isn't a good time, but just whenever
[15:19] <maxb> debian/patches/030_from_git_crash_fix_multiscreen.patch... .hmmm
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> halfline - yeah, i'll test that when i get home this evening. it makes sense anyway :0
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[15:25] <Keybuk> pitti: removing HAL means I can make other changes now ;-)
[15:26]  * pitti hands Keybuk more go-faster stripes
[15:26] <Keybuk> seb128: the hard drive that Dell put into the Latitudes is *CRAP*
[15:26] <Keybuk> my D420 and Martin's D430 have equivalently bad hard drives
[15:26] <pitti> *sigh*
[15:27] <Keybuk> but the hard drive they put into the Mini 10v is actually not all that bad
[15:27] <pitti> it's a good laptop for becoming motivated to do boot speed work, though
[15:28] <Keybuk> pitti: if you look at today's max bootchart, there's no real reason that X can't start where mountall finishe
[15:28] <Keybuk> +s
[15:28] <Keybuk> requires getting the "start on" line very right
[15:28] <Keybuk> and doing some udev trickery to pre-probe the things that X needs
[15:38] <pitti> seb128: do we have a wiki page like https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDevelopers for ~ubuntu-desktop? (application policy, etc.); ISTR that you wrote something like this a while ago?
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, no we don't
[15:38] <pitti> ah, ok
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, I did reply to the email from cjwatson with what we do now but that's about it
[15:41] <seb128> we don't have a formal procedure
[15:41] <seb128> it's just "wait that somebody in the team suggest you to apply"
[16:25] <pitti> pedro_: is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-partner-integration-qa still on the plan for lucid? (you are the drafter)
[16:27] <pedro_> pitti, is not, the session at UDS was mostly empty, so I'd prefer to defer it to lucid+1 and discuss some bits at the sprint
[16:28] <pitti> asac: should https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model be in status "review"? or is there still something missing?
[16:28] <pitti> pedro_: ack
[16:30]  * asac on call
[16:30] <asac> pitti: no. go ahead and review
[16:30] <asac> more items will probably pop up while doing, but the current status gives a good start
[16:30] <pitti> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-firefox-translations -> just defer that one perhaps?
[16:31] <seb128> hum
[16:31] <asac> pitti: yes. i will add it to the new-firefox-support-model. most stuff there was about how to organize the translation update
[16:31] <asac> for the major roll out
[16:31] <seb128> it's meeting time?
[16:31] <asac> let me check if there is a work item already for translations
[16:31] <rickspencer3> pitti ?
[16:31] <asac> pitti: yes. translations are already covered in work items
[16:31] <pitti> asac: tanks
[16:31] <pitti> ok, let's start the meeting
[16:32] <pitti> bryce, ccheney, Riddell, kenvandine: meeting?
[16:32] <Riddell> hola
[16:32] <kenvandine> ready
[16:33]  * ArneGoetje waves
[16:33] <pitti> so, let's start with oustanding actions to give the west coast folks some slack
[16:33] <pitti> most are done, except
[16:33] <pitti> ACTION: kenvandine to investigate improving startup time of Messaging Menu and related tasks
[16:33] <pitti> any hope there?
[16:33] <ccheney> here
[16:33] <kenvandine> tedg is adding some timing stuff so we can profile it better
[16:33] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-08 BTW
[16:34] <kenvandine> and we think a libindicate update might be a little faster
[16:34] <pitti> go, tedg, go!
[16:34] <seb128> :-)
[16:34]  * kenvandine thinks it was libindicate he suggested :)
[16:34] <kenvandine> it will get uploaded thursday
[16:34] <pitti> so, seems to be "in progress"
[16:34] <pitti> ACTION: all to try robert_ancell's new scanning tool
[16:34] <tedg> dbus-test-runner now can grab bustle profile data.  I'm very happy about that.
[16:34]  * pitti admits he didn't try it yet
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> didn't work for me
[16:35]  * seb128 neither
[16:35] <pitti> did anyone?
[16:35]  * kenvandine did... sort of
[16:35] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ah, what did you try to scan?
[16:35] <kenvandine> with a web cam :)
[16:35]  * kenvandine doesn't have a working scanner
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> pitti: my expense receipts
[16:35] <pitti> how did it fail then?
[16:36] <ArneGoetje> pitti: it listed my scanner (Epson), but couldn't talk to it
[16:36] <pitti> ArneGoetje: does it work with xsane?
[16:36] <ArneGoetje> pitti: xscan worked, though
[16:36] <pitti> interesting
[16:36] <ArneGoetje> sorry, xsane
[16:36] <pitti> ArneGoetje: would you mind pinging robert about it? it's using the same backend (libsane), so hopefully it's easy to fix
[16:37] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
[16:37] <pitti> ArneGoetje: danke!
[16:37] <pitti> ok
[16:37] <pitti> == Partner update ==
[16:37] <kenvandine> ok
[16:37] <pitti> kenvandine: anything to report this early in the cycle?
[16:37] <kenvandine> not much, starting this thursday we will get the weekly DX releases
[16:37] <kenvandine> +going again
[16:38] <kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidWeeklyReleases
[16:38] <kenvandine> that is all i have right now
[16:39] <pitti> thanks
[16:39] <pitti> = Kubuntu Update =
[16:39] <Riddell> KDE 4.4 Beta has mostly been uploaded to lucid
[16:39] <pitti> Riddell: anything to discuss at that front? alpha-1 blockers, etc.?
[16:39] <Riddell> there's a couple of notable problems with kdelibs which I think I've now solved
[16:39] <Riddell> and cjwatson has a fix for qt 4 on arm
[16:39] <Riddell> so in a few hours we should be ready for alpha 1
[16:40] <pitti> rocking'
[16:40] <Riddell> although it's not much tested so things could still go wrong
[16:40] <pitti> looking at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=21443 it seems that desktop/kubuntu is off the hook right now
[16:40] <pitti> serious testing will only start tomorrow, though, I expect
[16:41] <Riddell> yeah
[16:41] <pitti> davmor2 already ran some, but with both dhcp and ubiquity being broken it didn't get very far today
[16:41] <pitti> which brings us directly to
[16:41] <pitti> == Release Bugs/Release Status ==
[16:41] <pitti> anyone aware of something urgent which needs to make alpha-1?
[16:42] <pitti> the biggest change that landed was the new xorg
[16:43] <pitti> bug 491162 seems the only concerning one, but it doesn't happen for everyone, so I think it's okay to slip
[16:43] <pitti> seems not then :)
[16:43] <pitti> == Lucid blueprints ==
[16:43] <pitti> thanks to all, most blueprints are written and accepted
[16:44] <pitti>    desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model just made it into my queue, will do ASAP
[16:44] <pitti> but there are some which are still left
[16:44] <pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice
[16:45] <pitti> ccheney: ^ do we need a real spec for this in the first place?
[16:45] <pitti> (if it's just to track work, then the two WIs seem ok)
[16:45] <pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications
[16:45] <pitti> this is currently hanging in the air a bit, I'll follow up with didrocks and StevenK; seems this wasn't even discussed at UDS
[16:46] <ccheney> pitti: i don't think we need a spec, but if someone has reason to think we do then i am open to it
[16:46] <pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-desktop-cloud
[16:46] <pitti> ccheney: ok, good
[16:46] <pitti> ccheney: approved then :)
[16:46] <pitti> the desktop-cloud one is curious, rickspencer3 is approver and assignee, and no drafter
[16:47] <pitti> rickspencer3: do you happen to have some further info about that one?
[16:47] <pitti> let's postpone that, since he's still in another meeting
[16:47] <pitti> so, by and large, looks fine!
[16:47] <pitti> seb128: do you want to discuss boot speed?
[16:47] <pitti> and thanks for your great efforts there! *clap* *clap*
[16:47] <seb128> pitti, not especially
[16:48] <seb128> I've done a weekly summary
[16:48] <seb128> cf my activity report
[16:48] <pitti> nice report
[16:48] <seb128> and I've added some notes to the wiki page
[16:48] <seb128> as usually anybody is feel to investigate on those
[16:48] <pitti> we need a burndown chart :)
[16:49] <pitti> == UNE ==
[16:49] <pitti> this is just an announcement
[16:49] <pitti> since there was some confusion
[16:49] <pitti> so, UNR will be renamed to "UNE" (remix -> edition)
[16:49] <pitti> and its maintenance will move into the desktop team
[16:49] <pitti> didrocks will be the primary maintainer for this, and start in January
[16:49] <pitti> until then, the mobile team (StevenK mostly) will still handle UNE
[16:50] <pitti> and finally,
[16:50] <pitti> == 2010 Events ==
[16:50] <pitti> yay conferences!
[16:50] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-08 has a list
[16:50] <pitti> perhaps everyone can take a look and as a first step mark the ones you are interested in?
[16:51] <seb128> note that
[16:51] <seb128> "# Desktop Summit: Guadec + Akademy " is wrong
[16:51] <seb128> those are 2 events this year...
[16:52] <pitti> oh, they didn't keep the joint meeting?
[16:52]  * Riddell fixing
[16:52] <pitti> thanks
[16:52] <pitti> so, let's note this down as
[16:52] <pitti> [ACTION] everyone to add their conf interests to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-08
[16:52] <seb128> pitti, they might do it again next year
[16:53] <pitti> == AOB ==
[16:53] <pitti> anyone?
[16:53] <pitti> (sorry, this was a rather boring meeting; nothing hot to discuss right now, as it seems)
[16:54] <asac> added my activity to meeting page ;) and added myself to attending ;)
[16:54]  * pitti hugs asac
[16:54]  * asac hugs pitti 
[16:54] <kenvandine> pitti, in an effort to not lose vacation days, i will be out tomorrow :)
[16:54]  * seb128 hugs asac
[16:54] <pitti> kenvandine: enjoy!
[16:55] <pitti> then, meeting adjourned, thanks everyone!
[16:55] <pitti> and try the alpha-1 images on your hardware :)
[16:56] <fagan> Oh on the testing front is there any reason to start testing upgrades from karmic and hardy for alpha 1?
[16:56] <pitti> fagan: testing is certainly appreciated
[16:56] <fagan> But is there any point in testing yet?
[16:58] <pitti> fagan: we don't need a report about little errors yet, but if the upgrade fails completely we are certainly interested in fixing that ASAP
[16:59] <fagan> cool pitti ill see if there are any issues at alpha 1
[16:59] <pitti> fagan: cheers!
[17:01] <fagan> There have been some weird updates recently that removed nvidia, dkms and some x components.
[17:01] <fagan> Thats the only thing ive noticed
[17:04] <pitti> fagan: that was the middle of the X.org transition presumably
[17:04] <pitti> but the dust should have settled now
[17:05] <fagan> ill see if its fixed now
[17:18] <rickspencer3> phew, back
[17:19] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[17:20] <rickspencer3> hey
[17:20] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, how did the meeting go?
[17:21] <kenvandine> good and short :)
[17:23] <seb128> what brasero is doing at nautilus init is ridiculous
[17:24] <seb128> it calls tons of commands to get versions
[17:24] <seb128> wodim --version, dvd+rw-..., etc
[17:25] <fagan> seb128: whats going to happen with brasero now?
[17:25] <seb128> what do you mean?
[17:25] <kenvandine> seb128, how much time does that take?
[17:26] <fagan> Do we need to patch it?
[17:26] <seb128> kenvandine, on the mini10v drop the .so wins a good 0.5 seconds boot
[17:26] <kenvandine> eek
[17:26] <seb128> it seems to take almost 5 seconds on my laptop config
[17:26] <kenvandine> that has to be easy to clean up :)
[17:26] <kenvandine> such a hack
[17:26] <seb128> fagan, well there is no reason they need to do that at nautilus start, I opened an upstream bug to start
[17:26] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:27] <seb128> 'night pitti
[17:27] <fagan> night pitti
[17:27] <kenvandine> later pitti
[17:27] <seb128> fagan, let's wait for upstream comment that's the right place and they know their code better and why it does what it does now
[17:27] <seb128> if they don't reply or come with good suggestions we will have a look
[17:27] <seb128> for now I try to list issues
[17:27] <fagan> Oh cool
[17:27] <seb128> then we can work on those in order
[17:28] <seb128> I will not say no if upstream want to fix their software ;-)
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> grrrrrrrrr, ISP's
[18:59] <mac_v_> mpt: http://i47.tinypic.com/2q1aseg.jpg someone has done this mockup  ;)
[19:03] <dobey> ugh
[19:03] <dobey> "internet" and "office" and "education"
[19:08] <mpt> mac_v, I explored a layout like that one around the time of UDS
[19:09] <mpt> trying to solve the problems of (for example) where does an inserted CD go, how do you display which repository you're viewing, etc
[19:09] <mpt> I wasn't smart enough to make it all work
[19:09] <mac_v> mpt: yeah , but didnt you have an idea to use the space in the lower left pane too..[from current design]
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> whats the difference between "featured" and "recommended" in the screenshot?
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> (sorry if it's obvious ;))
[19:10] <mpt> dobey, we'll be doing card sorting to find better categories, if we can figure out how to print the cards to do it with <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1348591>
[19:11] <mpt> mac_v, yes, see <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Eventual%20scope>
[19:12] <mpt> hi glatzor
[19:13] <mpt> glatzor, I'm going on holiday for the rest of the week, but remind me sometime next week when you're available, and we can finish working on those error messages. :-)
[19:14] <mpt> chrisccoulson, maybe "Featured" would be the same for everyone, whereas "Recommended" would be based on things already installed on your computer in particular
[19:14] <glatzor> hi mpt! Enjoy yourself!
[19:15] <chrisccoulson> mpt - yeah, that makes sense. i just wasn't sure at first glance how the applications would be selected
[19:16] <glatzor> mpt, I would also like to have your advice on the sessioninstaller user interface - which should in the long run be merged with software-center for code sharing
[19:16] <glatzor> mpt, sessioninstaller handles the session PackageKit D-Bus interface.
[19:16] <mpt> glatzor, I haven't heard of sessioninstaller. What does it do?
[19:16] <mpt> oh, right
[19:16] <dobey> hmm
[19:17] <glatzor> mpt, there hasn't been a release yet. But we can talk about this next week!
[19:17] <dobey> mpt: but where do those categories come from?
[19:17] <dobey> mpt: we ask users to make up categories to fit the applications into?
[19:18] <mpt> dobey, a sample of users with a sample of applications, yes
[19:24] <Keybuk> did anyone notice that xsplash went away?
[19:30] <mac_v> mpt: regarding the system indicators mockups... i didnt know where to add the comments so , i just added them to the end of the page.. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemIndicators
[19:32] <mac_v> mpt: or... was there any technical reason why the volume slider was chosen to be placed below the options?
[19:33] <mpt> mac_v, it was so that you could set the volume with a single drag (mouse down on menu title, mouse over desired volume, mouse up), without accidentally blaring the volume if you passed over it on your way to the Settings item
[19:34] <mpt> mac_v, but the quickness wasn't worth the inconsistency, so since then I've moved the Settings item back to the bottom, I just haven't uploaded a newer mockup yet.
[19:34] <mac_v> yay...
[19:34] <mac_v> :)
[19:35]  * mpt reports a KDE bug
[19:35] <mac_v> mpt: is the session-menu order fixed or might what i'm mentioned be considered ?
[19:37] <mpt> ...
[19:38] <mpt> If mac_v comes back, tell him "it's worth considering, thanks" :-)
[19:38]  * mpt -> home
[19:38] <geser> mac_v: mpt | If mac_v comes back, tell him "it's worth considering, thanks" :-)
[19:38] <mpt> mac_v, it's worth considering, thanks
[19:39] <mpt> har har
[19:39] <mpt> both "Log Out" and "Suspend" have claims to the top of that section
[19:39]  * mpt -> really home now
[19:47] <mac_v> mpt: hehe ;) thanks
[19:54] <seb128> Keybuk, noticed? yes, read the gdm changelog or my activity reports
[19:54] <seb128> Keybuk, it was costing 1 second to login
[19:56] <Keybuk> fair enough :)
[19:56] <Keybuk> I wasn't upset
[20:22] <hugolp> Hi, I have installed empathy from the launchpad ppa (for Karmic) but I can not get the msn audio calls to work
[20:23] <hugolp> Am I missing something, its a known bug, or what? Its the first time using empathy.
[20:32] <asac> > In file included from /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus-glib-lowlevel.h:28,
[20:32] <asac> >                  from main.c:21:
[20:32] <asac> > /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h:29:33: error: dbus/dbus-arch-deps.h: No such file or directory
[20:33] <asac> is that due to some dbus/glib restructuring?
[20:34] <seb128> asac, what dbus version was that?
[20:35] <seb128> asac, it's supposed to be fixed in 2ubuntu2
[20:35] <asac> ok thanks. awe just mentioned that as an issue for NM dailies in lucid
[20:35] <asac> so i would assume thats fixed then. thx!
[20:35] <seb128> right, pitti fixed that today
[20:36] <asac> cool
[22:01] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, hi
[22:01] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hi rick
[22:01] <rickspencer3> I think TheMuso is still on vacation
[22:02]  * rickspencer3 looks at meeting notes wrt Easter Edition
[22:02] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, small meeting then.  Reading notes now...
[22:02] <robert_ancell> Simple scan ppa moved to: https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/simple-scan
[22:03] <rickspencer3> our burn down is quite painful
[22:03] <rickspencer3> it's only near the trend line because I keep moving things in a3 :(
[22:05] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I guess, could you please update the wiki with the new location and check with ArneGoetje to see why it didn't work for him?
[22:05] <rickspencer3> he should be online in about 3 hours
[22:08] <robert_ancell> updated.
[22:08] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, ^^^
[22:10] <rickspencer3> thanks robert_ancell
[22:13] <seb128> rickspencer3, I think your assumption that task ticking is linear is wrong
[22:14] <seb128> rickspencer3, lot of things get started and take time to get done
[22:14] <seb128> it's normal that the done items start going done after a work period and not from start imho
[22:15] <rickspencer3> yeah, they should start burning down soon enogh
[22:15] <seb128> to get what you want we would need to have a % by task
[22:15] <rickspencer3> yeah, but that would add too much overhead
[22:15] <seb128> so we would see some moved from 0% to 25%
[22:15] <rickspencer3> it's like the stock market, better to look at it over time, not day by day
[22:16] <rickspencer3> seb128, some people burn down estimated hours, which is kind of like what you mean
[22:16] <rickspencer3> would you be interested in trying something like that? or are you just telling me no to worry :)
[22:16] <seb128> I'm telling you I would not worry so early
[22:16] <rickspencer3> :)
[22:16] <seb128> ;-)
[22:16] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[22:17] <rickspencer3> I know, it's just in my nature to worry
[22:17]  * seb128 hugs rickspencer3, everything is on track no need to stress
[22:17] <rickspencer3> of course, I'm working on bughugger this week, and none of this work is on any blueprint
[22:17]  * rickspencer3 punishes self
[22:18] <rickspencer3> well, I'm also working on Quidgets ... I'm refactoring all the code that I reuse all the time in different projects into it's own library
[22:20]  * rickspencer3 adds bughugger work items to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-bug-management
[22:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, Is devicekit-disks working in Lucid fine?
[22:23] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, oh that is dangerous - you'll end up with a glib :)
[22:23]  * rickspencer3 feel better now
[22:23] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I know ... I always promised myself I would never do this, would always get my code into upstream projects instead
[22:23] <rickspencer3> but I finally broke down
[22:24] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, what do you think about being able to make a treeview like this:
[22:24] <rickspencer3>         dicts = [{"key1_1": "val1_1", "key1_2": "val1_2", "key1_3": "val1_3"},
[22:24] <rickspencer3>                  {"key1_1": "val2_1", "key1_2": "val2_2", "key1_3": "val2_3"},
[22:24] <rickspencer3>                  {"key1_1": "val3_1", "key1_2": "val3_2", "key1_3": "val3_3"},
[22:24] <rickspencer3>                  {"key1_1": "val4_1", "key1_2": "val4_2", "key1_3": "val4_3"},
[22:24] <rickspencer3>                  {"key1_1": "val5_1", "key1_2": "val5_2", "key1_3": "val5_3"}]
[22:24] <rickspencer3>         grid = DictionaryGrid(dicts)
[22:24] <robert_ancell> practicality always wins.  Anyway, having code downstream for a while means it gets well tested before being promoted
[22:24] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, like a spreadsheet grid?
[22:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, it should
[22:25]  * seb128 got mouse cursor blocked in select mode
[22:25] <seb128> I hate that
[22:25] <rickspencer3> well, it makes a grid, yes
[22:25] <seb128> I can't left click anywhere
[22:25] <Amaranth> hello
[22:26] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, and if you want to have a filter with it, you can do this:
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     #create a test widget with test database values
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     dicts = [{"ID": 0, "key2": 5, "tags": "aaa bbb ccc"},
[22:26] <rickspencer3>                  {"ID": 1, "key2": 6, "tags": "bbb ccc ddd"},
[22:26] <rickspencer3>                  {"ID": 2, "key2": 7, "tags": "ccc ddd eee"},
[22:26] <rickspencer3>                  {"ID": 3, "key2": 8, "tags": "ddd eee fff"},
[22:26] <rickspencer3>                  {"ID": 4, "key2": 9, "tags": "eee fff ggg"}]
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     grid = DictionaryGrid(dicts)
[22:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh yeah I get that too
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     grid.show()
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     filt = GridFilter(grid)
[22:26] <rickspencer3>     filt.show()
[22:27] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, looks good
[22:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, how do you fix it out of restarting xorg?
[22:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think that's what I end up doing.  I have a feeling clicking both left and right together rapidly used to fix it sometimes?
[22:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, It would be nice if we could get some info on what has occurred for bryce
[22:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, thank you
[22:30] <seb128> good job ;-)
[22:30] <robert_ancell> seb128, worked?
[22:30] <seb128> clicking both buttons in a crazy way did it
[22:30] <robert_ancell> sweet
[22:30] <robert_ancell> when all else fails, swamp the input with events....
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> heh
[23:11] <seb128> that's the right channel!
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> it's a bit quiet in here!
[23:11] <seb128> bratsche, kenvandine: so people report gksu crashing with the gtk ppa version
[23:11] <jcastro> hi guys!
[23:11] <seb128> hey jcastro
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> hi jcastro
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> are you following us? ;)
[23:11] <seb128> jcastro, I hope my banshee reply was ok
[23:11] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah, that's nasty.  I'm almost finished with app indicator stuff and I'll switch over to this immediately.
[23:11] <jcastro> ken is driving home with his kids (just got off the phone with him)
[23:11] <seb128> jcastro, I Cc-ed you on it
[23:12] <jcastro> seb128: I am going to reply in a bit
[23:12] <seb128> jcastro, thanks
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> hi bratsche
[23:12] <bratsche> Hey chrisccoulson
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> so, it's your fault i can't use gksu now? ;)
[23:12]  * ccheney uploaded OOo 3.1.1 to ppa for hardy to make all the LTS users happy :)
[23:12] <seb128> jcastro, I should have pinged you before Cc-ing just to know if you wanted to be brough in this discussion
[23:12] <bratsche> chrisccoulson: I'm afraid so. :)
[23:12] <jcastro> seb128: consider me always to want to be in the discussion by default
[23:13]  * ccheney and is trying to track down the weird doc note crasher bug now
[23:13] <seb128> jcastro, good ;-)
[23:13] <bratsche> But I'm jcastro's bitch until I get this app indicator stuff done.. I'll debug gksu next though.
[23:13] <seb128> jcastro, you rock!
[23:13] <seb128> bratsche, no pressure but no lucid upload before that gets fixed ;-)
[23:13] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah, I know. :)
[23:14] <seb128> joke aside we are frozen for alpha until thursday anyway
[23:14] <jcastro> bratsche: porting guide, rhythmbox, and then python bindings and then I'm done with you. :p
[23:14] <jcastro> see, with a freeze that's like plenty of time
[23:14] <seb128> lol
[23:14] <bratsche> jcastro: Uhh.. okay, I'm doing the porting guide now and then rhythmbox and then I'm switching. :)
[23:14] <jcastro> \o/
[23:15]  * bratsche dumps Python on some other poor unsuspecting soul
[23:15] <jcastro> Ironic isn't it
[23:15] <jcastro> how many pythoners are in ubuntu?
[23:15] <jcastro> like, all of them it seems like
[23:15] <bratsche> Sorry, I really don't like Python. :)
[23:15] <bratsche> hehe
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> bratsche - do you prefer C?
[23:16] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah, glad we didn't upload to lucid :)
[23:16]  * kenvandine goes to eat, bbl :)
[23:17] <bratsche> chrisccoulson: Yeah.. C, or C# or almost anything else.
[23:17] <seb128> you need to be a C master to like or over python I guess ;-)
[23:17] <seb128> or -> it
[23:17] <chrisccoulson> i prefer C :)
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> but then, i've written stuff using machine code before ;)
[23:18] <seb128> I like python for small tools writing
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> lol
[23:18] <seb128> it's really efficient
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> yeah, python seems handy for that
[23:18] <asac> C ftw
[23:18] <seb128> like the versions webpage
[23:18] <seb128> you don't want to do webpage download and regexp parsing for a quick thing in C
[23:18] <seb128> it so much quicker to do in python
[23:18] <asac> yeah. lots of folks would say that regexp is best done in perl ;)
[23:19] <dtchen> seb128: we can still upload despite the freeze, correct? i.e., process post-Alpha 1, etc.?
[23:19] <seb128> right, I just hate perl
[23:19] <seb128> but that's me ;-)
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> i really need to get involved with some python. i keep trying to learn it, but i've got nothing to apply it to yet
[23:19] <seb128> dtchen, yes, just try to not break installability...
[23:19] <seb128> ie CD builds
[23:19] <seb128> like avoid binary changes or renames
[23:19] <bratsche> Whenever I want to do little scripting things I end up using Ruby more, but I would usually not do anything 'real' in that language either.
[23:19] <dtchen> oh, it's a soft freeze?
[23:19] <bratsche> I like static typing.
[23:19] <asac> dtchen: please be sensible about armel ;) ... we are waiting for our first potential image built that runs in two hours ;)
[23:20] <dtchen> bah, I'll just wait
[23:20] <seb128> dtchen, yes
[23:20] <asac> so if you have binary all
[23:20] <asac> then that might bust us
[23:20] <seb128> dtchen, alpha freezes are always soft ones
[23:20] <asac> (again)
[23:20]  * seb128 upload something to break armel
[23:20] <asac> yeah ;)
[23:20] <asac> a binary all / any combo with failure on armel only would be great now ;)
[23:21] <seb128> asac, do you plan to do the gnome-bluetooth merge + 2.29 update btw?
[23:21] <seb128> asac, it used to be yours but I don't know now ;-)
[23:21] <asac> baptistemm was working on that
[23:21] <asac> afaik
[23:21] <asac> last i heard ;)
[23:21] <jcastro> seb128: btw has anyone from online services been talking to whoever at RB about the store?
[23:21] <asac> i asked me if i would consider to delegate that and I said yes ;)
[23:22] <asac> j.k.
[23:22] <seb128> jcastro, I don't know for sure but I don't think so
[23:22] <asac> baptistemm: did you bump in any issues with gnoem-blue?
[23:22] <asac> if so let me and seb know ;)
[23:22] <jcastro> seb128: ok
[23:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, is there a list of bugs on the csd?