[02:05] <shtylman> cjwatson: have you noticed that the installer is slower in general as of late (including the last release?)
[02:06] <shtylman> have their been any complaints about its speed (not just partitioner) .. cause I got some feedback on the kde side saying it is slow moving through steps
[02:06] <shtylman> im just wondering if we have some poor interaction happening or something else related to plugins and whatnot
[10:04] <cjwatson> shtylman: not particularly slower *of late*, but most of the inter-step slowness is spent restarting debconf-communicate; I did try to fix that recently, but it's not entirely trivial because it does genuinely have to be restarted when switching language
[10:43] <CIA-15> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1212 ubuntu/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Move to 2.6.32-7 kernels.
[10:43] <cjwatson> shtylman: (what I mean is, it's always been slow)
[10:45] <CIA-15> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1213 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081029ubuntu73
[10:48] <CIA-15> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1214 ubuntu/ (build/config/armel/imx51.cfg debian/changelog): Move iMX51 images to 2.6.31-601 kernels.
[10:48] <CIA-15> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1215 ubuntu/ (build/config/armel/dove.cfg debian/changelog): Move Dove images to 2.6.31-701 kernels.
[10:51] <CIA-15> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1216 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081029ubuntu74
[10:54] <CIA-15> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3615 ubiquity/ (4 files in 2 dirs): merge lp:~pitti/ubiquity/halsectomy
[11:14] <CIA-15> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3616 ubiquity/debian/changelog: bug closure for Mario's change
[11:54] <davmor2> cjwatson: anything you need adding to bug 492873?
[11:55] <cjwatson> no
[11:55] <cjwatson> it's fixed
[11:56] <davmor2> cjwatson: ah okay cool :)
[11:58] <CIA-15> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3617 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog debian/control):
[11:58] <CIA-15> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: base-installer
[11:58] <CIA-15> ubiquity: 1.103ubuntu2, preseed 1.43.
[12:08] <CIA-15> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3618 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.1.4
[13:47] <ev> shot myself in the foot for the last time (accidentally rebooted the live CD with lots of changes not copied out), time to set up NFS mounts.
[13:48] <zortec> I just got done installing ubuntu 9.10 and have a few things to say about the installer
[13:49] <zortec> it would help out people changing from windows to linux to explain during the installer what a primary and logical partition would be
[13:49] <zortec> also if there is any adverse effects of doing the end of the drive instead of the beginning
[13:50] <cjwatson> could you file bugs, please? IRC is not really a good medium for bug reporting
[13:51] <zortec> I was told to come to the channel and voice my concerns
[13:51] <cjwatson> though primary/logical is not a Linux-specific thing, so I'm not sure why this would particularly apply to Windows switchers
[13:51] <zortec> from the #ubuntu channel
[13:51] <cjwatson> and I'm telling you to voice them in the bug tracker ... :-)
[13:51] <cjwatson> (well, asking)
[13:52] <zortec> well I can understand how primary/logical is not necessarily a linux-specific thing, but I didn't know the difference when installing ubuntu whether or not to make them primary or logical partitions
[13:52] <zortec> I set / to a primary and the rest of the mount points as logical partitions
[13:52] <cjwatson> TBH, people who aren't familiar with partitioning shouldn't use the manual partitioning interface at all
[13:52] <cjwatson> better to use the automatic partitioner
[13:52] <zortec> I used it because I wanted a /home partition
[13:52] <cjwatson> why?
[13:52] <zortec> and was told manual partitioning is the best way
[13:52] <cjwatson> that's definitely not a novice thing
[13:53] <cjwatson> (reason: because novices won't know a reasonable split)
[13:53] <zortec> does logical and primary make a lot of difference?
[13:53] <cjwatson> no
[13:53] <cjwatson> you can have up to four primary partitions; if you have any logical partitions, that number decreases by one
[13:54] <cjwatson> and there are some constraints on where they can go, but the installer won't let you violate this
[13:54] <cjwatson> it doesn't matter for Linux, anyway, but might matter for some other OSes
[13:55] <zortec> so either way would have been fine, I do remember reading that there was a limit on primary partitions
[13:55] <zortec> just wonder if I screwed up at all not making them all primary
[13:55] <cjwatson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_table#PC_BIOS_partition_types
[13:55] <cjwatson> no, you're fine
[13:55] <cjwatson> in fact the installer prefers to use logical partitions itself where possible, since their positioning is more flexible
[13:55] <zortec> and another thing that happened in the installer was the screen went black... I know that is a screensaver but some people might think their monitor went dead
[13:56] <cjwatson> that's definitely a bug, the screensaver is supposed to be suppressed
[13:57] <cjwatson> please report that
[13:57] <zortec> how do you report bugs in ubuntu?
[13:58] <zortec> this would be my first one :)
[13:58] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[13:58] <ev> Is it?  Looking at a live CD, gnome-power-manager is set to blank the screen after 30 minutes.
[13:58] <zortec> but should it blank the screen during the installer?
[13:58] <zortec> it was like at 90% and the screen went blank
[13:58] <cjwatson> ev: I'm referring to e.g. ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py:poke_screensaver; you may have found the bug then ;-)
[13:59] <cjwatson> zortec: no, it should not
[13:59] <ev> cjwatson: I take it we don't care about CRT burn in? (I don't, just playing Devil's advocate)
[13:59] <cjwatson> ev: no :)
[13:59] <cjwatson> that hasn't actually been a physical problem for a long time
[13:59] <cjwatson> and even if it were I wouldn't care in the installer
[14:00] <cjwatson> this is just a straight bug
[14:00] <ev> fair enough
[14:00] <zortec> when has CRT burn in been an issue since we have lcds now?
[14:00] <cjwatson> it hasn't
[14:01] <zortec> I thought like nobody used screensavers any more
[14:01] <zortec> they are a legacy thing
[14:01] <cjwatson> screensavers are provided because (a) people like the pretty pictures (b) they double as a screen-lock
[14:02] <cjwatson> (b) is certainly not legacy
[14:02] <cjwatson> but none of this is relevant to the installer. as I say, please file a bug
[15:49] <superm1> cjwatson, FYI the screensaver --poke not working is bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/428884 . it unfortunately affects a lot of stuff that was relying on --poke to turn off the screensaver
[15:50] <cjwatson> lovely. thanks for the ref
[15:50] <cjwatson> ev: ^-
[15:51] <superm1> there's an alternate interface available via org.gnome.SessionManager I believe.  it would have been nice if at the same time as telling everyone to go use that, they dropped --poke rather than leaving the broken code in.  (Personally i think it would be best if they just implemented --poke to go use that interface itself)
[15:52] <cjwatson> we can use the dbus thing
[15:53] <cjwatson> we already have dbus in the gtk frontend for something else
[15:53] <cjwatson> I agree on the "shouldn't have been done that way" bit
[15:53] <ev> superm1: any idea if that takes care of inhibiting dpms as well? (sorry if the link answers that, my horrendously awful T-Mobile 3G connection is being really bad at dns resolution at the moment)
[15:54] <superm1> ev, i'd imagine so, but i'm not certain
[15:58] <superm1> ev,  if your hangup is at t-mobile's DNS, 208.67.222.222 and  208.67.220.220  are the opendns servers (in case you didn't already have them somewhere/try that instead)
[16:09] <zortec> I filed the bug at launchpad
[16:09] <zortec> but would like to add that launchpad doesn't stay up very l ong
[16:12] <ev> nice, thanks
[21:25] <soren> cjwatson: Hey. I'm doing rotation into the QA team, and I'm working on automating the server install test cases. Now, traditionally, we've automated this using preseeding, but I'm working on a setup that will go through an interactive install, typing and clicking its way through it like a regular user would.
[21:25] <soren> cjwatson: Personally, I think this is wicked cool, but its usefulness compared to the preseed approach has been questioned, and I'd like your opinion.
[21:27] <soren> cjwatson: The way it works is that it waits for the screen (or portion thereof) to look a specific way (so waits for the prompts to appear) and then sends key and mouse events in response.
[21:27] <soren> cjwatson: This is part of such an install run: http://people.canonical.com/~soren/kvm-autotest-magic/
[21:29] <soren> cjwatson: It looks very much like a preseeded install, but e.g. about two thirds in, you can see the "Write changes to disks and configure LVM?" prompt, where it <TAB>s over to the "Yes" option and hits return.