[00:57]  * tonyyarusso finished nom noms
[00:57] <katakaio> Hey - I'm actually here early, not late!
[01:00] <tonyyarusso> All right, time to get started.  Courtesy ping to exigraff, h00k, jenkinbr, katakaio, kermit, Leaf, mr_steve, rlaager, sparklehistory, Takyoji
[01:00] <katakaio> Present.
[01:01] <Takyoji> It's purely coincidential that I happened to wake up at the perfect time for the meeting, without any awareness. xP
[01:01] <tonyyarusso> I figured we'd begin by doing short introductions, just whatever you'd like to tell about yourself, your Ubuntu usage, etc., along with what region of the state you hail from.
[01:01] <mr_steve> Present, though my participation might be limited. Lots going on at the house..
[01:01] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: we understand :)
[01:02] <mr_steve> Lets see here.. I'm Steve, of Minneapolis. I'm a fulltime student at MCTC. Been using Ubuntu since 6.mumble, now it's on every PC in the house.
[01:02] <tonyyarusso> I'm Tony, started using Ubuntu in 2005, currently studying Computer Forensics and hope to use Ubuntu professionally as a sysadmin someday.  From East Metro.  I'm a user, and IRC op, and have occasionally dabbled in packaging for universe, but can't code my way out of a paper bag.  (Hope to change that sometime.)
[01:02] <kermit> i use ubuntu on my main computer, i'm in minneapolis
[01:03] <katakaio> Cool - I can share. I'm living in Minneapolis now and really starting to dig into Ubuntu after years of use (started with Feisty). I'm rocking vanilla, server and PowerPC installs.
[01:03] <katakaio> Correction - Edgy. (Am I that old?)
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> ha
[01:04] <jenkinbr> Ohhh, we have meetings now :)
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> 'tis the idea, yup :)
[01:04] <katakaio> So, do I count four metro members? (that's location, not orientation . . .)
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> yup
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> People who haven't introduced themselves yet are elsewhere - go guys!
[01:06] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Not all of us are elsewhere or guys :)
[01:06] <exigraff> exigraff here, hailing from -wi, actually. Was terribly confused when I saw there was a meeting to be had. Turns out this is -mn. :p Went from Gentoo to Suse to Ubuntu, have been on Ubuntu since .. 8.x, not a huge amount of time.
[01:06] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: I take no responsibility for the idiocy of the English language.
[01:06] <Leaf> My name is Rick, I live in Cottage Grove (se suburb), I've been using Ubuntu (in some way or form.. kubuntu, xubuntu) for several years now.. probably since the 6.0 release.  I use it as my primary workstation along with Mac OSX and Vmware - mostly for an open source gaming project I am involved with called Crossfire
[01:07] <tonyyarusso> Leaf: cool - a place I used to work was using Sun's game server for virtual worlds development (Second Life competitor type thing)
[01:07] <sparklehistory> I'm in the metro area, have used Ubuntu as a dual boot with Windows for 3 years but never really gotten beyond the GUI.
[01:07] <Leaf> I am on the upgrade treadmill with Ubuntu.. always have multiple versions running, 32bit and 64bit for development and testing purproses
[01:08] <Leaf> tonyyarusso: Crossfire is no where near that stage.. it's more like the old Midway Video game Gauntlet - but much more multiplayer setting
[01:08] <jenkinbr> My name is Brian, from NE Minnesota. I use Ubuntu on all my computers (one PC and one VPS), and also have gotten my girlfriend to use Ubuntu because I'm too cheap to buy windows ;). I've also introduced several friends to Ubuntu and Linux in general. My home computer is running Ubuntu 9.10 desktop, my VPS is running 9.10 server (minimal), and my girlfriend runs 9.10 desktop as well :)
[01:08] <kermit> oh about myself.. i've been using linux on various servers and desktops for 13 years, and i need job doing either admin or coding
[01:09] <kermit> ..and, i need roomates, in a modern house in a central location
[01:10] <katakaio> kermit: rofl . . . "you can't always get what you want"?
[01:10] <Takyoji> Caleb--living in Faribault (south central part of Minnesota). Used Ubuntu for 1-2 years (losing count now). I also support like 5 Ubuntu installations as well for others. On my current desktop I use only Ubuntu, and for productional uses (software development, image post-processing/enhancement, web design/development). First distro I ever tried was Debian (on an old desktop).
[01:10] <Takyoji> I also maintain a few webservers. One Fedora (dedicated server), and another Debian (VPS).
[01:11] <tonyyarusso> Excellent.  Glad you could all make it!  I think that's everyone who appears to be online/conscious, but feel free to pitch yours in at any time if you arrive later other folks.
[01:12] <tonyyarusso> So before we delve into the real meat of stuff, I'd like to open with a little bit of feedback.
[01:12] <jenkinbr> I should mention that besides my VPS, I also maintain several shared hosting accounts, all on Linux systems
[01:13] <tonyyarusso> Have the weekly e-mails I've been sending been helpful in your opinion?  What do you think of the topics so far?  How could that sort of communication be better to elicit more of a response / ensuing discussion rather than being the mostly one-way communcation it currently appears to be?
[01:13] <tonyyarusso> (I'm hoping to get people talking more on that mailing list as the goal, in addition to helping educate on various stuff.)
[01:13] <Takyoji> I'm typically more of a forum user.
[01:13] <katakaio> I personally love the e-mails, and if it were in a forum format, I'd gladly respond.
[01:14] <tonyyarusso> hey ripps - we're meetinging!  Just getting started, so introduce yourself, and then we're talking a bit about the value of recent e-mails.
[01:14] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji and katakaio: Would it be helpful if I crossposted them to http://minnesota.ubuntuforums.org/ ?
[01:15] <jenkinbr> I read the e-mails, and agree that they are interesting; unfortunately, I don't really have much itme to respond
[01:15]  * Takyoji ponders over what the definition of meetinging would be..
[01:15] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: +1
[01:15] <katakaio> As far as I'm concerned, you could just post them there and that would be perfect.
[01:15] <katakaio> People can subscribe to an e-mail digest if they don't frequent the forums - right?
[01:16] <jenkinbr> and put a link in the e-mail to the forum post ;)
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: I'm not actually sure - would have to look into that.
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> seems plausible at least
[01:16] <katakaio> If you don't mind e-mailing too, that's cool. But I think the forum idea would be a hit.
[01:17] <tonyyarusso> All right, I'll put that down as an action item for me.  Cool.
[01:18] <tonyyarusso> Any other suggestions along the same goal of "get people talking"?  The basic issue is that we actually have quite a few people now, but we aren't doing enough to make people feel like this is an active, involved group.  Montly meetings is part of that strategy.  Trying to get e-mails flying is another part.  We'll talk about some bigger ones in a moment as well.
[01:18] <katakaio> Thank you! I think the content of the e-mails is great and something that should be sticky-worthy :)
[01:19] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: from my understanding, people can subscribe to threads and have the first post since they visited pushed to email, however, I don't know about getting a daily/weekly digest from the forums
[01:19] <Takyoji> It's a bit awkward that vBulletin is used for the Ubuntu Forums, but that's just me..
[01:19] <jenkinbr> I don't think the latter is possible
[01:19] <Leaf> most forums have rss feeds of postsings
[01:19] <jenkinbr> Leaf: good point...
[01:19] <Takyoji> phpBB 3.0.6 provides RSS/Atom capabilities
[01:19] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I agree, but apparently they've tried alternatives and had trouble handling the load.
[01:20] <Takyoji> I'm assuming that was a while ago though, because phpBB3 is quite an advancement over phpBB2
[01:20] <mr_steve> vBulletin as used by ubuntuforums does seem to provide per-forum RSS feeds
[01:20] <tonyyarusso> Well, I suppose we can ask a forums expert about subscription options.  I'm guessing for the people who prefer forums, they are more inclined to figure out how to best follow them, yes?
[01:20] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: sweet
[01:21] <jenkinbr> Leaf: sadly, UbuntuForums is so big, that it is too demanding to do feeds for individual threads
[01:21] <tonyyarusso> That allows a certain amount of integration with Drupal too.
[01:21] <Takyoji> Otherwise, another topic of discussion would be of working on the ubuntu-minnesota.org website.
[01:21] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That assumption is correct.
[01:21] <katakaio> Takyoji: That would be awesome. I'd love to promote our loco to other groups with a website to point to.
[01:22] <mr_steve> It'd be great to see a proper home page at least at ubuntu-minnesota.org. Even if it was roughly a copy-paste from the wiki
[01:22] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Web site was another topic slotted for discussion yes.  Might as well segue into that now - would you care to start?
[01:22] <Takyoji> I'm the reason nothing has gotten done, since I haven't worked on it at all in a while..
[01:23] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: Would you be willing to do that initial copy-paste of which parts of the wiki page are most relevant for a home page?
[01:23] <katakaio> Takyoji: It's okay - this is a meeting, not a confession :P
[01:23] <mr_steve> Sure. I've even done lots with Drupal before
[01:23] <MJ94> jenkinbr: you're in mn?
[01:23] <Takyoji> Please forgive my horrid sins. :P
[01:23] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: did I set you up with an account yet?
[01:23] <MJ94> I live in MN :D
[01:23] <jenkinbr> MJ94: yes
[01:24] <MJ94> Where abouts jenkinbr?
[01:24] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: nope, I'll register one and you can fiddle the permissions
[01:24] <tonyyarusso> welcome MJ94 - we're having our first meeting in a long time.  Care to introduce yourself?  We're currently discussing our new web site, ubuntu-minnesota.org
[01:24] <jenkinbr> NE mn
[01:24] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: excellent.
[01:24] <MJ94> I'm from Duluth, jenkinbr's online pal.
[01:25] <jenkinbr> MJ94: you use ubuntu at all?
[01:25] <MJ94> My comp's hdd is too small >_<
[01:25] <MJ94> I want too, badly
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> Leaf: are you by any chance also riptucrohbympac ?
[01:26] <Leaf> tonyyarusso: No, I'm not
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> Somebody get that man an old drive!
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> Leaf: 'k.  Just trying to recognize drupal accounts
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: how small are we talking?  A base install is only about 3GB.
[01:26] <jenkinbr> MJ94: I've got an old 200 GB drive ;)
[01:27] <tonyyarusso> As far as the web site goes, our primary goal with it is to replace the wiki content first.  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/+spec/website-replace-wiki is our Blueprint for the project.
[01:27] <Leaf> make sure to clarify if what sort of connectors are in the computer -- sata, pata, etc.
[01:27] <MJ94> I have like 2 gb left
[01:27] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: before I forget/get distracted: I'll probably work on a draft for the homepage tonight
[01:27] <jenkinbr> I'd have to scrub the data off of it, but I could ship it to you
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> And like katakaio said, the purpose is so we have a decent URL to point people to that gives the basic information about our team.
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: excellent - I look forward to it.
[01:28] <katakaio> Awesome. As soon as we have a rudimentary website, I'm going to start actively getting the word out to area groups.
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> Anyone else interested in helping with the web site development?  (All technical levels can work)
[01:29] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: I am
[01:29] <mr_steve> Drupal totally rocks for this, too; with it's varying permissions to draft/publish in various section
[01:29] <tonyyarusso> jenkinbr: if you register for an account I can grant it edit permissions and you can start poking around right away.
[01:29] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: kk :)
[01:29] <MJ94> I've heard Ubuntu is similar to Windows and Linux at the same time. What are the sim/diffs?
[01:30] <MJ94> Ubuntu is *nix, but how's it like windows?
[01:30] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: I would love to have a restricted account so I can look around Drupal and see how the pros do it
[01:30] <katakaio> . . . with no risk of breaking things
[01:30] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: While that's an excellent question, I think it's a bit beyond the scope of the meeting for the moment.  Would you mind waiting half an hour on that thought so we can answer it more completely?
[01:30] <MJ94> Sorry :(
[01:30] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: That can be arranged, sure.
[01:31] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: no big deal, just trying to stay vaguely on track.
[01:31] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Do I register on the website?
[01:31] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: ya
[01:31] <katakaio> OK, investigating . . .
[01:31] <tonyyarusso> katakaio also brought up our next point - interaction with area groups.
[01:31] <tonyyarusso> that Blueprint is at https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/+spec/area-groups
[01:32] <tonyyarusso> The idea is that there are other computing/technology-related groups / organizations in Minnesota, and it would be good to let them know a) that we exist, and b) perhaps we can collaborate on certain things in the future as appropriate.
[01:33] <katakaio> With Tony's help, I've investigated a number of groups that might like to know we exist.
[01:33] <tonyyarusso> That page already lists the obvious, which are LUGs, but the goal is actually far broader than that.  There are things like Amateur Radio clubs, computer science student orgs., a Twin Cities chapter of the Association for Women in Computing, ACM chapters, etc.
[01:34] <katakaio> I met with a number of members from TCLUG for pizza a few months back. They were almost surprised to know we existed, and seemed very interested in coordinating with us for future social or technical events.
[01:34] <tonyyarusso> Following this meeting, I'll take a moment to move info from the BP whiteboard to a proper Spec wiki page, and we can use that to better list everything people can come up with.
[01:34] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: account jenkinbr registered :)
[01:34] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Thank you. I need to sign up for the suggested Launchpad tutorial . . .
[01:34] <tonyyarusso> Once there's a list, we'll need people to put their names by groups and take care of calling/e-mailing/whatevering them - anyone have a group in mind already that they'd like to talk to?
[01:35] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: I've registered my ubuntu-minnesota account as well. same as my nick
[01:35] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve, jenkinbr: rights granted
[01:35] <katakaio> I've had an F2F meeting with TCLUG members, so I'm inclined that direction.
[01:35] <jenkinbr> :)
[01:35] <jenkinbr> brb, munchies
[01:36] <mr_steve> I've been meaning to get involved with TCLUG personally, but it's hard to find time. And TCLUG's website doesn't give the impression of an active group...
[01:36] <tonyyarusso> Our third blueprint is about launchpad education - I'm still looking for a better slot in my weekly topic schedule for that - hopefully soon.
[01:36] <MJ94> Can I just ask who lives where?
[01:36]  * h00k waves from Wisconsin
[01:37] <katakaio> MJ94: Minneapolis, MN
[01:37] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: 5 or 6 metro, two NE, one South out of the present people.
[01:37] <Leaf> mr_steve: TCLUG atm is more of a mailing list discussion channel -- group meetings are few and far between for numerous reasons
[01:37] <MJ94> Metro?
[01:37] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: (You can check the log for the details afterwards - you missed the very beginning when we did introductions)
[01:37] <MJ94> I live in Duluth, I'm 15 :)
[01:37] <h00k> MJ94: I'm right across the bridge
[01:38] <MJ94> superior?
[01:38] <katakaio> mr_steve: I got that vibe too. Maybe we can kickstart them too? I plan on a Minnesota LUG assault with info about us, and then I want to connect with the Ubuntu lovers here at the U of M campus in various computing groups.
[01:38] <jenkinbr> MJ94: I'm currently Hill City (about 18 miles south of Grand Rapids)
[01:39] <Takyoji> Egad, someone actually within 3 years of my age. xP
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> I think part of the issue is that the original purpose of LUGs, which largely consisted of "how do I make my $hardware work?" is no longer necessary, and they've struggled to transition to new purposes like advocacy.
[01:39] <h00k> MJ94: yep.
[01:40] <tonyyarusso> Ubuntu Minnesota, as something newly formed in the current age, has an advantage starting off, and can "show them the way" perhaps.  If we're awesome enough.  That's up to you.  :)
[01:40] <katakaio> *cue inspirational music*
[01:40] <tonyyarusso> We, along with what Leaf mentioned about face-to-face meetings being few, brings us to our next action item.
[01:40] <MJ94> h00k: Name/age?
[01:40] <tonyyarusso> We need more in-person gatherings.
[01:40] <h00k> MJ94: Anthony, 21
[01:40] <MJ94> O_O
[01:41] <jenkinbr> tonyyarusso: I agree, esp. for thos out of the Metro area
[01:41] <tonyyarusso> We're called a local *community*.  Community means we know each other and interact, not that we just sit on a list on Launchpad.  So, we need to leave our hermit caves once in a while and hang out together.
[01:41] <exigraff> whaat...
[01:41] <Leaf> my comment about in-person gatherings, as what happened with TCLUG - need to have at different nights during the week, different locations as some days work better for some people, same with locations
[01:42] <katakaio> That could be pretty simple for the metro members, but what about the rest?
[01:42] <tonyyarusso> Part of the problem we've had in the past is just focusing on the installfest type of release party, which is a big to-do and only every six months, so people are nervous about volunteering to organize one.
[01:42] <mr_steve> I like the greetings idea. A big attraction for me to LUGs and such is the idea of being able to meet people with the same interests. People to geek out with.
[01:42] <Leaf> IE, if you choose every 3rd tuesday of the month and in the west metro -- some people will never be able to make it
[01:42] <tonyyarusso> So, the big proposal is to do things *small*, but often.
[01:42] <jenkinbr> Sorry, guys, I've got to dip out for a bit, be back later
[01:43] <tonyyarusso> Just get together to talk, not necessarily have an organized presentation and whatnot.
[01:43] <katakaio> Does everyone like coffee or beer?
[01:43] <tonyyarusso> In an earlier, informal, discussion here, some people suggested organizing bowling nights.
[01:43] <h00k> katakaio: yes
[01:43] <exigraff> heh
[01:43] <mr_steve> katakaio: coffee, yes
[01:43] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: I'd prefer coffee myself.
[01:43] <h00k> ^ this
[01:44] <MJ94> Where can I find you all after this meeting?
[01:44] <Takyoji> in the same channel
[01:44] <katakaio> MJ94: the e-mail list or this channel
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> With something as simple as meeting at a coffee shop, even the people in less populous places can participate, since you can just announce that you will be at $place at $time, and if 10 people show up, great, if 2 show up, that's still cool, and if nobody shows up, you get a nice cup of coffee and some thinking time and didn't waste a bunch of effort.
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: A lot of us idle here all the time.
[01:45] <mr_steve> agreed, to both of the previous two lines
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> Leaf: Yeah, for a long time I couldn't make it to the Penguins Unbound stuff because I worked Saturday mornings.
[01:46] <mr_steve> I'll be stepping away for a moment here, I'll try to catch up
[01:46] <katakaio> I like the idea of scooting the location around a bit too. It freshens things up and accommodates people who need to drive, etc.
[01:46] <MJ94> I should leave - I can't use Ubuntu :(
[01:47] <tonyyarusso> The coffee shop idea is being heavily pushed by MagicFab of Montreal.  He calls it the "Ubuntu Hour" - an arrangment to go sit in a coffee shop with Ubuntu apparel, stickers, or some other identifying thing for one hour each week or fortnight, whether by yourself or in a group.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
[01:47] <Leaf> MJ94: stick around.. might learn something to make your ubuntu experience better *when* you get to try it out :-)
[01:47] <tonyyarusso> true
[01:47] <katakaio> tonnyyarusso: That's cool! I never knew that. But where to get Ubuntu swag?
[01:48] <tonyyarusso> The essense of Ubuntu Hour is that it serves a double purpose - it can be a LoCo event *and* an advocacy opportunity.  Maybe people will notice and ask you about Ubuntu.  Be sure to be armed with live CDs of course.
[01:48] <katakaio> I'm digging on this idea.
[01:48] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: shop.ubuntu.com is one possibility.  ShipIt includes free stickers as well if you got any of those.
[01:49] <tonyyarusso> I have a few stickers floating around here too that I can share.
[01:49] <MJ94> The problem with Ubuntu is partitioning...
[01:49] <MJ94> I wouldn't know how.
[01:49] <Takyoji> There's a straightforward tool in the installer
[01:49] <tonyyarusso> If you don't have anything to wear / put on, you can just work on your laptop with a default background set, maybe enlarge the icons, and enable some eye candy like Docky and Compiz effects.
[01:49] <Leaf> MJ94: latest/recent installers have made that much simpler then it used to be
[01:50] <tonyyarusso> OMG it's true - Karmic's installer is so much better than the last time I looked.
[01:50] <MJ94> I'd still want Windows - but I suck at sizes, idk how much Windows and Ubuntu I'd want
[01:50] <tonyyarusso> So can we get an agreement that everyone will be announcing an Ubuntu Hour starting in their neck of the woods shortly?  :)
[01:51] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: start with a small thing for Ubuntu and work up later as you see fit.
[01:51] <Takyoji> But I only have desktops. :P
[01:51] <katakaio> Yes - should the metro members try to coordinate?
[01:51] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: So bring those!  You can be the awkward guy!
[01:51] <katakaio> Haha
[01:51] <Takyoji> This reminds me of.. (one second
[01:51] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: absolutely. I have a couple hours between my friday classes to find a local coffeeshop to haunt with some Ubuntu stuff
[01:51] <MJ94> We can change partitions as we need to?
[01:52] <Takyoji> Reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
[01:52] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: not necessarily - it might actually be best not to coordinate pre-announce; that way there will be more of them, and we can all attend whichever ones we can, rather than worrying about the best schedule.
[01:52] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: Sweet - be sure to let us know on the mailing list, and we'll try to also put together some sort of "master list" on the web site as we build it.
[01:52] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Okay, I'll see what I can do and announce when I'll have a coffeeshop staked out
[01:53] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Precisely the vid I had in mind.
[01:53] <mr_steve> And I'm definitely of the school of thought that says as long as there's coffee and wi-fi, I could care less if anyone else shows :)
[01:53] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, wifi is pretty much a must for us :P
[01:54] <tonyyarusso> All right, finally, I just wanted to give you all a heads-up of next week's topic, which is an introduction to Alpha release ISO testing.
[01:54] <mr_steve> yay, that's something I've been meaning to look at
[01:55] <tonyyarusso> It's been asked that LoCos try to increase testing participation/involvement, which basically consists of making an extra partition, using a spare machine, virtualization, or just a Live CD and checking out pre-release versions of Ubuntu, reporting bugs, and filling out quick standardized forms about what worked and what didn't for you.
[01:55] <tonyyarusso> Some of the starting info is summarized on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/LoCos
[01:55] <tonyyarusso> Anyone done testing before at all?
[01:55]  * tonyyarusso has, but not very rigourously
[01:56] <mr_steve> I ran Karmic starting with alpha3 or so and reported issues, but I've never done the actual ISO testing
[01:57] <Leaf> installs of various pre-release version in vmware to make sure certain apps compile and work - so far they all have, so no problems or issue to report
[01:57] <tonyyarusso> All right, so we make perfect guinea pigs for this, sweet!
[01:58] <tonyyarusso> Well, that was all I planned to cover for now.  By all means stick around and keep talking if you'd like, but I promised we'd only go an hour, so we'll cut off the official meeting here.
[01:59] <tonyyarusso> We have some things already to follow up with on the list, forums, and web site, so I'll look forward to what you can contribute to those, and if you understand Launchpad feel free to add some Blueprints as well that we cant talk more about at next month's meeting.
[02:00] <tonyyarusso> Logs of this meeting are available on http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2009/12/08/%23ubuntu-us-mn.html (8th because it's a European time zone server)
[02:00] <Takyoji> Completely random thought..
[02:00] <Takyoji> perhaps at some installfest, event, meeting, etc; have something on effective bug reporting and how to use Launchpad
[02:01] <Takyoji> Then nobody wouldn't have a reason not to participate! :P
[02:01] <Leaf> Does the bug reporting tool still require you to have a login account to create a bug report?
[02:02] <Leaf> er, launchpad login account ?
[02:02] <Leaf> If so.. it is almost shocking at how much that scares people away.. :-/
[02:02] <Takyoji> Still dependent on a Launchpad account, yes
[02:03] <tonyyarusso> Leaf: Yeah, pretty much everything requires having a Launchpad account.
[02:03] <tonyyarusso> A lot of LoCo stuff will as well really.
[02:04]  * tonyyarusso is hoping to figure out how to make the web site *only* require a LP account, not this separate registration nonsense.
[02:04] <katakaio> House crisis, brb
[02:05] <h00k> tonyyarusso: if you figure it out, lemme know
[02:05] <tonyyarusso> h00k: sure thing
[02:05]  * tonyyarusso wonders if katakaio mean a problem with his abode, or realizing the TV show is on
[02:19] <Takyoji> Anyone aware of projects similar to Jahshaka?
[02:21] <Takyoji> Oh fun, there's not even an announcement for Jahshaka that's of this year
[02:24] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Haha, very funny . . . it's the abode variety
[02:24] <katakaio> Washing machine decided to wash the whole laundry room again
[02:25] <katakaio> Almost fixed . . .
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Fun - ours does that relatively regularly
[02:31] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/Specs/AreaGroups
[02:43] <katakaio> Okay, I'm back. Thanks for the spec page link.
[02:43] <katakaio> Are things wrapped up here? :-(
[02:51]  * jenkinbr reads logs...
[03:00] <jenkinbr> MJ94: yes, do stick around, if only just for learning experiance for the time being :)
[03:01] <jenkinbr> You can learn a lot just by asking questions
[03:01] <jenkinbr> +, if you get to know h00k, he might be a good local resource for you :)
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> Oh yeah, MJ94 wanted to know relative strenghts of Ubuntu vs. Windows if people care to weigh in on that.
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: ripps is also in Duluth.
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> Well, I can offer 2 cents worth..
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> MJ94: I'd say Windows' strength is specialized applications, like CAD, games, and some other stuff.  Ubuntu excels at everything else.
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> Windows is convenient for compatibility with big-box store purchases, Linux is more powerful for using a wide range of hardware.
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: (The Whiteboard feature is for discussing implementation / status type stuff more btw)
[03:05] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Great - thank you! I like the wiki page a lot.
[03:06] <mr_steve> Thanks, everyone, for the meeting btw. I think it went well. Probably more activity in-channel than there has been in the last 30 days combined :)
[03:07] <katakaio> Yes - it was a pleasure. Good luck on the website, by the way!
[03:07] <Obsidian1723> Mac is ideal for graphics, video and audo creation and editing. Windows is also good for specialized applications, like Mac, albeit more generalized, yes, CAD, but also more office based applications, more business-related. Windows is great for gaming.
[03:07] <Obsidian1723> Where Linux excels is that unlike Mac OS X and Windows, which are closed-source systems, you cannot modify the operating system or software. In Linux, you have the capability to fix whatever is wrong, if you have the ability to fix it yourself. Under Mac OS X and Windows, even if you have the ability, you do not have the capability, and therein lies the biggest difference.. freedom and total control over your PC.
[03:08] <Obsidian1723> One, it controls you, the other, you control it.
[03:11] <Obsidian1723> /kill room :( I did it.
[03:12] <tonyyarusso> For the record though, nobody in my house actually tinkers with source code, but we all benefit from running Linux.
[03:12] <Obsidian1723> There is + and - to doing source.
[03:13] <Obsidian1723> You won't get a leaner, meaner system, than running Gentoo, and you'll be frustrated as all heck learning it, BUT oncey ou do it, you'll know Linux really, really, really well. Put it this way, install Gentoo ona bunch of PCs, make one a NIS server, you can pretty much pass the RHCE.
[03:14] <mr_steve> Yeah, +1 for gentoo as a learning distro
[03:14] <Obsidian1723> but for most people, yeah, installing an RPM or DEB is fine, but you should still know how to compile from source.
[03:14] <mr_steve> I used it for a long time, switched to Ubuntu 'cuz I wanted to stop tinkering and start getting work done :)
[03:15] <Obsidian1723> Anyone that compiles Gentoo will pretty smoke even Slackware guys.
[03:15] <Obsidian1723> mr_steve, same here.
[03:15] <Obsidian1723> I've been on PCs since 1978, so yeah, word.. I hear ya.
[03:15] <Obsidian1723> I don't want to geek out for days on end. I just want to do stuff.
[03:18] <Obsidian1723> mr_steve, what flavor ya running?
[03:18] <Obsidian1723> or version, I mean.
[03:18] <mr_steve> I'm on Karmic for all my machines except the GF's laptop, that one had to stay on Jaunty
[03:19] <Obsidian1723> Right on. I'm on 8.04.3LTS on this desktop, 9.04 on my laptop. I had to downgrade from 9.10.
[03:19] <Obsidian1723> 9.10 didn't play well with the laptop.
[03:19] <mr_steve> Yeah, 9.10 has worked great for me except on the aforementioned laptop. It's fine on mine, had major problems on hers
[03:20] <Obsidian1723> I was on 9.04 and upgraded to 9.10, which caused the video to freak out, so then I wiped and reinstalled, that fixed the video, but compiz still didn't work, so went back to 9.04, everything was fine like before.
[03:20] <Obsidian1723> What kind did she have?
[03:20] <mr_steve> It's an old Compaq Evo N600c
[03:21] <Obsidian1723> Mine is a Dell Latitude C-610. I also have a C-640, and that took 9.10 just fine, everything works on it.
[03:21] <mr_steve> Has a radeon mobility 7500, which doesn't play well with Karmic's Xorg
[03:21] <Obsidian1723> ah yeah.
[03:21] <Obsidian1723> I'm also not a fan of grub2. They made it more complex than just regular grub.
[03:21] <mr_steve> Also ran into a truely obnoxious Grub2 bug, that should have been a release blocker
[03:21] <mr_steve> and yet still isn't fixed
[03:21] <Obsidian1723> grub2 blows.
[03:21] <mr_steve> Quite
[03:21] <Obsidian1723> Made it harder to work with.
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> I'm also not a fan of Gnome 3.0 either...
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> So I may have to stay back on 8.04.xLTS
[03:22] <mr_steve> Ubuntu shouldn't have adopted Grub2 until it was feature-complete wrt Grub1
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> Yeah
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> It's too bleeding edge sometimes.
[03:23] <mr_steve> They put a lot of bleeding-edge tech into Karmic, kind of out of character for Ubuntu
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> On the other hand, if Ubuntu didn't adopt grub2 it might never reach feature-parity with grub1
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> same goes for empathy/pidgin
[03:23] <mr_steve> True
[03:23] <mr_steve> I still use Pidgin ;)
[03:23] <Obsidian1723> I learned though to not break my own rule... 1) NEVER install a x.10 version because htey ALWAYS suck. 2) ALWAYS install ONLY an LTS, and ONLY when it is a .1 or later release, ala 8.04.1LTS or 10.04.1LTS.
[03:24] <mr_steve> Although I do maintain a PPA for Empathy, patched packages that let you disable logging
[03:24] <Obsidian1723> Yeah I can't get Empathy to use the chatrooms. I cant find a server list heh
[03:24] <Obsidian1723> oh? DO tell...
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Lucid will not have Gnome 3.
[03:24] <mr_steve> I think I'm a version or two behind, but a lot of people were complaining about how Empathy logs all conversations with no way to disable
[03:24] <mr_steve> So I patched it and rolled some PPA packages
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: One of the goals for Karmic was "make any significant changes now so we don't do them in the Lucid cycle, so we can make a better LTS"
[03:25] <Obsidian1723> yeah Where does it keep the logs? in /var somewhere?
[03:25] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: yep, that's what I've heard
[03:25] <Takyoji> Psh, not /var
[03:25] <Takyoji> ~/.empathy probably
[03:25] <mr_steve> Obsidian1723: some hidden dir under ~
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> .gnome2/apps/Empathy would be my guess
[03:26] <mr_steve> I sent my patch upstream too, but I haven't kept track if it's going in the official release or not
[03:26] <Takyoji> ~/.local/share/Empathy/logs
[03:27] <mr_steve> It has some issues still, like not being able to turn logging on/off per-conversation like Pidgin can
[03:27] <Takyoji> And it's in a special XML format of it's own
[03:27] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: ah, right
[03:27] <Obsidian1723> ~/.gnome2/apps/Empathy/logs
[03:28] <Takyoji> And I thought only double quotes were allowed in XML
[03:28] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: not on Karmic
[03:28] <Obsidian1723> I'm on 8.04.3LTS
[03:28] <Takyoji> In other words, <img src="example.jpg" /> not <img src='example.jpg' />
[03:29] <Obsidian1723> ~/.gnome2/Empathy/logs/yahoo0$ to be exact
[03:30] <Takyoji> What's the package for the new interface intended for GNOME 3?
[03:30] <mr_steve> seems like most .gnome2/ stuff is in .local/ now. It's the new XDG spec
[03:30] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: gnome-shell
[03:30] <tonyyarusso> that reminds me
[03:30] <tonyyarusso> !gnome-shell
[03:30] <ubot3> gnome-shell: redefines user interactions with the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.28.0-0ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 324 kB, installed size 1480 kB
[03:31] <tonyyarusso> Yay, he fixed it
[03:31] <Takyoji> 59.7MB of additional space needed for installing gnome-shell
[03:31] <mr_steve> oh, ubot3 is working right again?
[03:31] <Obsidian1723> So when will gnome 3.0 be out? In which version of Ubuntu?
[03:32] <mr_steve> Obsidian1723: I think Lucid+1
[03:33] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: I've successfully made an account on our website. Is it possible to grant me low-level admin access? I'd like to peruse the administrative backend but not make any wild changes. I've wanted to get some hands-on experience with Drupal.
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: It is targeted for September 2010 release upstream, so most likely Lucid+1, but possibly Lucid+2 if there's a problem.
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: Yeah, I'm going to have to create a separate role for you I think.
[03:35] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Oh, don't go out of your way for this. This is purely for my benefit. I'm happy to leave the website in confident hands.
[03:36] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[03:36] <mr_steve> Speaking of, I'm working on a front-page draft right now.
[03:36] <tonyyarusso> I can do it, just not right away.
[03:36] <tonyyarusso> sweet
[03:37] <katakaio> These meetings sure kickstart things :)
[03:38] <mr_steve> I can't promise it'll be pretty, but it'll be a good start.
[03:38] <mr_steve> I haven't really been linking to our website because it's had the Drupal dummy page up forever
[03:39] <tonyyarusso> and by "forever" he means "not really that long" since the site hasn't existed more than about two months :P
[03:40] <mr_steve> Heh, true enough
[03:41] <mr_steve> offtopic: Does anyone use Qwest DSL? Thoughts?
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> I do.
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> A little bit slower than Comcast for similar price points, but the reliability doesn't even compare.
[03:42] <Obsidian1723> I'm stuck with Comcast :(
[03:42] <tonyyarusso> Our Comast was out the three consecutive days before the date we had scheduled for Qwest installation - was ironic.
[03:42] <mr_steve> I've always gone with comcast in the past, but they just attempted to tell me seriously that I'd have to pay $99 for internet installation, and $29 for one TV installation
[03:43] <Obsidian1723> I'n on Cahrtern ow, whom I love, but the house I am building, we an't have DishTV (easements) and so we need cable for TV and Internet, thus Comcast, whom I loathe with a passion. It's like giving money to Bill Gates.
[03:43] <Obsidian1723> mr_steve, you ever hit the 250GB bandwidth cap?
[03:43] <mr_steve> Nope.
[03:44]  * tonyyarusso might get close
[03:44] <mr_steve> I think I actually ditched Comcast before they had that policy
[03:44] <Obsidian1723> Do youdownload iSOs at lot? Music streaming?
[03:44] <tonyyarusso> I'm spreading it across the month barrier though, so I don't think it will be a problem.  Nov/Dec each should have like 150.
[03:44] <mr_steve> Occasionally, though not as much as my buddy, and he hasn't hit the cap yet
[03:44] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: Comcast "had" the policy far before they admitted it.
[03:44] <mr_steve> True
[03:45] <mr_steve> I never had a problem, at any rate
[03:45] <tonyyarusso> Mirroring the entire Ubuntu repository for me :)
[03:45] <Obsidian1723> They also have been sued by the FCC for blocking file sharing, and they won't admit it, but they do DPI.
[03:45] <Obsidian1723> You use Comcast now Tony?
[03:47] <mr_steve> But yeah, I just put in my order for 3m/640k DSL. Hoping it's not bad. I know you used to need a windows machine to run the MSN client just to connect
[03:47] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: no, used to
[03:47] <mr_steve> And I'd bloody well better be able to configure the modem for transparent bridging, or I suppose I'll have to mail it back to them in about 12 envelopes...
[03:49] <Takyoji> More specifically, they were silently dropping BitTorrent connections
[03:50] <Takyoji> And it's so pathetic to block/ban something in the sole person of it being of BitTorrent, which is used for very legitimate needs.
[03:56] <Obsidian1723> I doubt most people are using it for that.
[03:56] <Obsidian1723> Some, yes,.. many, maybe, but the vast majority? No.
[03:57] <Takyoji> I use BitTorrent a handful of the time for legitimate uses. :P
[03:57] <Takyoji> There's nothing with the protocol that implies it's "evil"
[03:58] <Takyoji> It's not made specifically for 'piracy', as if anything could ever be
[03:58] <Obsidian1723> No, but let's face it, mostly it's used for orn, warez, music, illegal downloads, etc
[03:58] <mr_steve> The member list should probably *not* be part of the main homepage on the website, eh? In fact, the wiki may well be the best place for it to stay...
[04:10] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso, others: A very rough rough draft of a front page, based on the wiki, is at ubuntu-minnesota.org/node/8 for those that have permission to view unpublished pages.
[04:11] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: I propose that Objectives should be a separate page.
[04:12] <mr_steve> Concur
[04:12] <mr_steve> I was just going to say that I'm trying to figure out what all should be broken into separate pages
[04:16] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: Should this page perhaps be a new primary link, "About us" or so, with objectives and the like as child pages?
[04:16] <mr_steve> I forgot how much Drupal site-navigation gives me fits...
[04:20] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: that can be done too, yes.
[04:24] <mr_steve> I'll keep playing with it for a while yet, but whatever I do I'll leave unpublished for review & approval
[04:30] <mr_steve> hm. bulleted lists are not pretty in this theme.
[04:32] <mr_steve> They look alright in the preview, but definitely not quite right when actually viewing a page
[04:33] <Takyoji> Yes, they're horrible
[04:34] <tonyyarusso> it's true
[04:35]  * tonyyarusso might be able to fix that, but not tonight
[04:35] <mr_steve> I can re-format my work to  * ghettolists for now I suppose
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> What's the pink mean?
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: nah, leave it semantically correct
[04:38] <mr_steve> Sure thing
[04:38] <tonyyarusso> oh
[04:38] <mr_steve> pink? what pink?
[04:39] <tonyyarusso> nvm, I figured it out
[04:42] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: did you go ahead and publish my new about page, or did I whoops somewhere?
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> I did
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> Seems good enough to go with for now at least
[04:43] <mr_steve> Okay, just making sure. I saw it appear in the primary links all the sudden and said "uh..."
[04:43] <mr_steve> Like I said it's probably not the prettiest thing yet, but I guess it's definitely better than the Drupal dummy page
[04:44] <mr_steve> I believe I'll link to us from my blog now.
[04:46] <mr_steve> I can probably drop the "Read on for more details" bit from the page, I wasn't sure if the site was set to display teasers or full posts. Looks like it's the latter.
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: We have "Get Support" and "Get Involved" on our page twice btw - we should fix that.
[04:49] <mr_steve> That right sidebar came with the theme, eh?
[04:49] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> They're pretty, but not relevant
[04:55] <Takyoji> The navigation was modified
[04:56] <Takyoji> The original theme was zebra-style...
[04:57] <mr_steve> if http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/node/9 looks like a decent "objectives, page, I'll go ahead and make it a child of "About Us"
[05:34] <mr_steve> Alright all, I'm off for the night. Peace.
[12:12] <jenkinbr> lol, that's the first time I've ever seen my /quit msg when I'm only connected to one server...
[19:31] <h00k> greetings
[19:34] <mr_steve> heya h00k, how goes?
[19:34] <h00k> meh.  Class and I forgot to charge my netbook
[19:36] <mr_steve> Bummer. Yeah, I desperately need a new laptop battery before I start school. 5min runtime just isn't going to cut it
[19:36] <h00k> 29.1%, 1 hour 15 mins remaining
[19:36] <mr_steve> nice. This laptop of mine was only good for a little over an hour when the battery was brand new
[19:37] <mr_steve> And they don't offer a larger battery... I might need a new lappy.
[22:16] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: this is why I got a netbook, so it would run long enough for school
[22:21] <h00k> I had to turn wireless off but I managed to limp it through the rest of class
[22:26] <mr_steve> Yeah, I'm thinking I might go ahead and get a cheap netbook for classes. I took a bit more loan than I needed just in case I decided to do something stupid like that :)
[23:50] <Takyoji_> I'm never a person to block anyone ever (aside from spambots), but in the only instant that it's actually been necessary (such as now), I can't find the option ANYWHERE in Empathy
[23:50] <Takyoji_> for such a basic feature
[23:52] <Leaf> seems such a function is not available in empathy per my google searching