[00:17] <fagan> any xorg people around?
[00:18] <dtchen> (#ubuntu-x)
[00:18] <fagan> thanks dtchen
[00:39] <dtchen> huh. stuff like https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/494259 seems like overkill.
[00:40] <dtchen> that would seem, IMO, to be UI clutter (apologies for the namespace collisions)
[00:40] <rickspencer3> dtchen, can I set that to "wishlist/confirmed"?
[00:41] <dtchen> rickspencer3: certainly.
[00:41] <dtchen> rickspencer3: it just seems like the opposite of what stream memory was designed to do
[00:41] <rickspencer3> yeah
[00:41] <dtchen> i.e., I can see use cases for both remembering and forgetting
[00:42] <rickspencer3> well, I guess alerting the user about the setting some how wouldn't be aweful, but just seems you have bigger fish to fry
[00:43] <rickspencer3> done
[01:00] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, good morning
[01:00] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: moin
[01:00] <rickspencer3> ok
[01:01] <rickspencer3> = Arne =
[01:01] <rickspencer3> good '''morning'''
[01:01] <rickspencer3> == call time ==
[01:01] <rickspencer3>  * is about now
[01:01] <rickspencer3>  * should we try empathy?
[01:01] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: yes
[01:02] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, just what is commented on the bug
[01:08] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, are the issues people are hitting with csd captured in bug #491521 so far as you know?
[01:09] <rickspencer3> I ask because seemed you were discussing with seb128 in #ubuntu-devel
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3 - comment 12 describes the issue we were discussing earlier
[01:10] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, right, so gtksudo is busted
[01:10] <rickspencer3> is that the main thing?
[01:11] <rickspencer3> well, I guess #11 isn't great either
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> that's the main thing, in addition to the weird artefacts in nautilus
[01:11] <rickspencer3> thanks chrisccoulson
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok, comment #11 might just be related to the artefacts we see
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> nautilus is probably working ok, but the contents on the screen aren't getting refreshed correctly
[01:20] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, gksudo is a real problem
[01:20] <kenvandine> that is a blocker for sure imho
[01:21] <rickspencer3> right
[01:21]  * kenvandine must not have used thar recently
[01:21] <kenvandine> that
[01:21] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: ping
[01:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I think the artifacts are to be expected, but until the gtksudo thing is resolved, probably shouldn't push it into the distro
[01:22] <kenvandine> yeah
[01:22] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, we'll see what others report
[01:23] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[01:23] <rickspencer3> time for me to log off
[01:23] <rickspencer3> see everyone tomorrow
[01:23] <kenvandine> later!
[01:23] <kenvandine> vacation
[01:23] <kenvandine> :)
[01:23] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, see you Thursday!
[01:23] <kenvandine> later!
[01:23] <rickspencer3> have a fun day tomorrow
[01:24] <kenvandine> i'll try
[01:36] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, hey
[01:37] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: about the simple-scan problem... shall we discuss it here or in private chat?
[01:37] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, here is good
[01:37] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: ok.
[01:38] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: my scanner is an Epson 3490 Photo and is detected by Xsane under snapscan:libusb:003:004
[01:39] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: I remember I had to do some fiddeling with udev and I don't rember what else on my system to get it working.
[01:39] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: scanning works with Xsane
[01:40] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, ok, what happens in simple-scan?
[01:40] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: simple-scan detects the scanner as "Epson", but when clicking on 'Scan', I get the error message "Failed to scan\nUnable to connect to scanner"
[01:41] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, what version are you running?
[01:41] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: after that even Xsane cannot talk to the scanner anymore
[01:41] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: 0.6.4 from your ppa
[01:41] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, yeah, sane is really bad at locking the scanners, you have to wait for a timeout
[01:42] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, ok, you can upgrade to 0.7.0 but they will probably not fix the problem (https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/simple-scan)
[01:42] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, can you run simple-scan from a terminal like this:
[01:42] <robert_ancell> $ simple-scan 2>&1 >simple-scan.log and paste that into paste.ubuntu.com
[01:42] <ArneGoetje> ok
[01:53] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: after upgrading to 0.7.0 and resetting my scanner, it displayed two entries for Epson Scanner, one was apparently the old usb address 003:004 and the other one the new one after the reset 003:005. Clicking Scan with the first device failed, but with the second one it succeeded.
[01:56] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, that makes sense - it remembers the previously scanned devices so there's no delay on startup. When you re-open simple-scan the old one will dissapear
[01:56] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, good news then!
[01:56] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: ok, anyways, it works now :)
[01:57] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, when will simple-scan land in main? :-D
[01:57] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, a2 for universe at least :)
[01:58]  * robert_ancell is setting up two new computers at the same time - a dell mini for testing and a new dell studio to replace my old laptop
[01:59] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: how is 'continuous scan' supposed to be used?
[02:00] <robert_ancell> ArneGoetje, yes it will probably be renamed - it's for automatic document feeders - it keeps scanning until it runs out of paper
[02:00] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: ah...
[02:02] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: feature request: 1. scan multiple pages (even on flatbed scanners) and bind them into a pdf, 2. pipe the scanned text through a OCR software. :)
[02:02] <robert_ancell> 1. already works
[02:03] <robert_ancell> 2. not in scope for lucid, but plan to have that feature in the future
[02:03] <ArneGoetje> robert_ancell: yay!
[02:47] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, continuous scan = "Scan from document feed"
[02:47] <rickspencer3> ?
[03:13] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yeah, name is awful.  Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to get SANE to tell me if the source is document fed
[03:13] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: the whole UI is up for changing before 0.8
[03:39] <LLStarks> kenvandine. any workarounds for the gtk testing issues?
[05:37] <pitti> Good morning
[05:53] <pitti> dobey: hm, so what exactly causes ubuntuone-client-applet to be started with my session automatically? the nautilus extension? (I don't have an autostart .desktop anywhere)
[07:07] <didrocks> hey pitti
[07:07] <didrocks> the gdm new default session seems to work well :)
[07:08] <pitti> yay didrocks
[07:09] <didrocks> pitti: I'm wondering about setting the default session now.
[07:09] <didrocks> I guess the rational is:
[07:09] <didrocks> There is already a default session -> don't touch
[07:09] <didrocks> There is none -> set this session related package as default
[07:11] <didrocks> also, I think I'll write a dummy tool in gdm package to enable that. (called in *-default-settings packages postinst)
[07:11] <didrocks> The thing is that gdm is only interacting by dbus (there is no way to ask the daemon to reload the configuration without stop it and reload it)
[07:11] <didrocks> the this little tools would:
[07:12] <didrocks> 1. Try to update (if needed) the setting by dbus
[07:12] <didrocks> 2. if it doesn't work, the daemon is probably stop, change the value directly in the file
[07:12] <didrocks> make sense?
[07:13] <pitti> oh, there's no reload any more, as in the old gdm?
[07:13] <pitti> didrocks: I had hoped that this would be done by the greeter, i. e. next time it starts it reads the new custom.conf
[07:13] <pitti> but if not, then oh well
[07:13] <didrocks> no, I tried and it failed. I asked upstream and they confirm
[07:14] <didrocks> so the little tool as to be a little bit smarter, not a big deal :)
[07:14] <didrocks> has*
[07:14] <pitti> didrocks: so if you install UNE image, it should of course be the default session, but if you just install the package, it shouldn't automatically become teh default session IMHO
[07:14] <pitti> OTOH, xubuntu-/mythbuntu-default-* have to change the default session
[07:15] <pitti> I think the latter just need to change custom.conf, and probably whatever was installed last wins
[07:15] <pitti> for UNE, the image build process could change custom.conf
[07:16] <didrocks> Don't you think we can integrate that in a tool in gdm package?
[07:16] <didrocks> just to do the right thing (as changing directly custom.conf needs a gdm restart to take the new value into account)
[07:17] <didrocks> can be quite easy, an option --keep-default to the tool involved in changing the setting
[07:17] <didrocks> we will call it that way in une post-install
[07:17] <didrocks> and don't use that option in xubuntu, mythbuntu...
[07:21] <pitti> didrocks: sure, sounds fine
[07:21] <pitti> /usr/lib/gdm/set-default-session or something like that
[07:21] <didrocks> thanks for the name suggestion :)
[07:22] <didrocks> I'll try to give some love to that today :)
[07:31]  * pitti unbreaks desktop installability and CD builds due to the libmetacity breakage
[07:34] <didrocks> good work, appreciable before alpha1 release ;)
[07:34] <pitti> and necessary :)
[07:35] <didrocks> yay ^^
[07:46] <pitti> Amaranth: FYI, I upgraded lp:~compiz/compiz/ubuntu to bzr 2.0 (couldn't push any more, and it's easier to upgrade than to downgrade)
[07:47] <pitti> meh, compiz is FTBFS due to some KDE changes
[07:52] <baptistemm> hello
[08:03]  * pitti weeps
[08:03] <pitti> gnome-python-desktop is FTBFS, too
[08:06] <didrocks> gloups
[08:07] <didrocks> too bad that ssh ports are closed at my company, I could have given an hand on that package :/
[08:09] <pitti> that one seems reasonably easy
[08:09] <pitti> the compiz one seems more worrying
[08:10] <pitti> Amaranth: do you happen to have a minute to fix http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36614923/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.compiz_1%3A0.8.4-0ubuntu7_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? this is blocking alpha-1
[08:34] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:35] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:35] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you today?
[08:35] <pitti> I got up at 6:30 :)
[08:35] <chrisccoulson> that's quite early :)
[08:35] <pitti> right now I'm fighting gnome-python-desktop and compiz FTBFS
[08:35] <pitti> we need to get them to build to unbreak alpha-1
[08:36] <chrisccoulson> ah, that's not good
[08:36] <pitti> due to the libmetacity0 -> libmetacity-private0 renaming
[08:37] <chrisccoulson> ah, i didn't know about that. that's a change from debian right?
[08:37] <pitti> right
[08:38] <didrocks> hello chrisccoulson ;)
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
[08:38] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: fine, and you?
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad. although, i didn't get a lot of sleep last night
[08:39] <pitti> I went to bed at 22:00 already
[08:39] <pitti> too much Gluehwein at the Christmas fair yesterday :)
[08:41]  * didrocks reminds when he sold Gluehwein during "la fête des lumières" in 2005 to finance his non profit organization action in Africa
[08:41] <chrisccoulson> i need to go to our christmas market at some point :)
[08:42] <didrocks> more than 300 liters in 7 days :)
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> but it's quite difficult with a 3 week old baby now
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you drank all that?
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[08:42] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, especially for having a real night. Should be difficult
[08:42] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, I auto-founded everything \o/ ;)
[08:53] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:55] <didrocks> hello seb128 :)
[08:56] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:56] <seb128> ca va ?
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
[08:57] <didrocks> ça va bien, et toi?
[08:57] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:58] <seb128> didrocks, bien, merci!
[08:58] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti
[09:00] <seb128> gnome-menus crasher already fixed, pitti as quick as usual ;-)
[09:03] <pitti> phew, I think I bent gnome-python-desktop to my will now
[09:05] <pitti> now off to beating on compiz
[09:05] <didrocks> pitti on strike ;)
[09:05] <pitti> *nng* need ... build ... alpha1 *nng*
[09:11] <seb128> building alphas is overated I would say
[09:12] <pitti> well, but having buildable packages isn't..
[09:13] <pitti> right now the desktop is uninstallable
[09:13] <seb128> right, I was just joking there
[09:13] <pitti> ah :)
[09:13] <pitti> not yet fixed in compiz git head either :-(
[09:16] <mvo> pitti: I can have a look when I finished with apt if you want
[09:16] <pitti> mvo: do you know a bit about KWD (KdeWindowDecorator)?
[09:17] <pitti> mvo: KWD:Window is abstract now, and it tries to instantiate it
[09:17] <mvo> pitti: I think its just a matter of adding the pure virtual functions with NOPs, iirc we had something similar in the past
[09:17] <mvo> pitti: yeah, I saw the failure log
[09:17] <mvo> pitti: if it goes (much) beyond that, we need to ask for help in #compiz-dev
[09:18]  * mvo asks there anyway
[09:18] <pitti> mvo: is there an example commimt for this?
[09:20]  * mvo looks
[09:22] <pitti> mvo: ah, there are a couple of almost-empty functions in kde/window-decorator-kde4/window.cpp
[09:22] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/337877/
[09:23] <mvo> that was the one we used, I guess only the lower half is needed now
[09:25] <pitti> ugh, what was f() = 0 again?
[09:25] <pitti> mvo: I'll try this
[09:25] <mvo> pitti: that makes it pure virtual, but I think this is no longer needed
[09:25] <mvo> pitti: I mean, this bit of the patch
[09:28] <pitti> mvo: this seems to work (adding empty stubs), but of course nobody guarantees me that these functions aren't actually called anywhere..
[09:29] <pitti> I can grep the source, of course
[09:29] <pitti> but KDE itself could call them (they are virtual)
[09:29] <pitti> well, I'll just give it a try
[09:30] <mvo> pitti: right, I have no idea if stubs are enough or not, but I think its worth a try. alternatively we could simply disable compiz-kde until upstream fixes it
[09:31] <pitti> right, it's universe after all
[09:34] <pitti> yay, it builds
[09:35] <mvo> feedback from upstream already (they rock!)
 maniac103: do you think its enough to just add stubs?
 mvo: yes, I'm just unsure about the virtual KDecorationDefines::WindowOperation KDecorationBridgeUnstable::buttonToWindowOperation(Qt::MouseButtons)
[09:35] <pitti> mvo: do you think it's okay for me to just commit that patch now and upload?
[09:35] <mvo> pitti: yes
[09:36] <mvo> seb128: that reminds me, did my patch for u-m had a positive impact on the performance?
[09:37] <pitti> mvo: http://pastebin.com/f3ab952f1
[09:37] <pitti> horrible, and prone to fail (not returning real values, etc.), but builds :)
[09:37] <pitti> it should work if these functions aren't actually called
[09:37]  * pitti rather won't forward this to upstream like that, though
[09:37] <seb128> mvo, oh, dunno, I didn't get the dist-upgrade prompt today and I did normal upgrade
[09:37] <mvo> pitti: I'm sure upstream will come up with a good fix soonish
[09:39]  * pitti cranks buildds to finish before next publisher
[09:39]  * pitti hugs mvo, thanks for handholding
[09:40] <mvo> my pleasure! you did all the real work :)
[09:42] <pitti> die, libmetacity0, die!
[09:42]  * pitti wonders what will fail next
[09:48] <pitti> ok, now the ports FTBFS is just due to kde library build wreckage
[09:58] <mvo> pitti: how much churn is ok at this point? I have a apt upload pending now but nothing in it is really criticial, but it would be nice to get the exposure and testing
[09:59] <pitti> mvo: no library transitions, no ABI/API changes, no stuff that can potentially wedge archive/installability
[09:59] <pitti> apt sounds a bit on the dangerous side right now?
[10:00] <pitti> compiz built \o/
[10:03] <mvo> pitti: no abi/api issues, but of course with apt there is always a risk
[10:20] <rodrigo_> hmm, I forgot what you use for setting default values for gconf schemas in packages, what was it please? :)
[10:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, a file named binary.gconf-defaults in the debian dir
[10:24] <rodrigo_> ah ok!
[10:24] <seb128> where binary is the name of the binary package you use
[10:25] <seb128> the format being "key value"
[10:25] <seb128> one on each line
[10:25] <pitti> seb128: time sink> indeed, I spent 50 minutes on the gvfs merge now, and most of the changes are wrong for us or cause unnecessary pain :-(
[10:25] <dpic> rickspencer3: seems like people are supportive of solang, shotwell, and even gthumb, but there still doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion happening
[10:25] <seb128> pitti, oh, please ignore such changes then
[10:25] <pitti> right, I'll revert them
[10:26] <seb128> what did they do?
[10:26] <seb128> I'm just interested in the monitor move to gvfs to be honest
[10:26] <rodrigo_> seb128: cool, thanks!
[10:26] <pitti> lots of changes for building on hurd, etc. (hal), patches to remove the libgvfscommon0 library and build it without a soname, etc.
[10:26] <seb128> dpic, supportive of getting those in universe?
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: the only thing that moved to gvfs is the burn backend
[10:26] <seb128> pitti, ok, please drop all those, we don't want complexity
[10:27] <seb128> it just makes upgrades harder
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, they don't install the remote monitor in gvfs?
[10:27] <pitti> yeah, it's a pain
[10:27] <dpic> seb128: supportive of one of them being used as the default in lucid instead of f-spot
[10:27] <dpic> or lucid+1
[10:27] <seb128> dpic, where did you see that?
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: right now I actuall ponder dropping the merge completely
[10:27] <seb128> dpic, have you read my reply on lists?
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, please do
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, sorry I made you waste time on that
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: one piece that's worth keeping is fixing /etc/profile.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh
[10:28] <pitti> which should be in /etc/bash_completion.d/
[10:28] <pitti> I'll keep that
[10:28] <dpic> seb128: i did, what about it?
[10:29] <seb128> dpic, I'm not sure how you count that as being supportive of the change...
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: what do you meant about the monitor?
[10:29] <seb128> pitti, we should not merge but cherrypick fixes for those
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: we have the gdu monitor in gvfs, and the gphoto monitor in -backends
[10:30] <pitti> just as Debian
[10:30] <dpic> seb128: i don't. it wasn't very much against the change, except the fact that things might not be as bad as i made them out to be. everyone else who posted seemed to like the idea
[10:30] <dpic> brian and caleb, that is
[10:30] <dpic> wouter seemed neutral
[10:30] <seb128> those replies are not realistic
[10:30] <seb128> you don't replace a project running for years and working by something starte 2 months ago and with no user and testing
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, hum, let me look at this build failure again
[10:31] <dpic> seb128: of course, i was trying to make a call for testing
[10:31] <seb128> dpic, your email was rather a suggestion to consider to change the default
[10:32] <seb128> GVFS-RemoteVolumeMonitor-WARNING **: cannot open directory /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors: Error opening directory '/usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors': No such file or directory
[10:32] <dpic> i suppose i should've started the email where i ended it and ended it where i started it
[10:33] <seb128> pitti, ^ does debian create this dir in gvfs?
[10:33] <seb128> in the gvfs binary I mean
[10:34] <seb128> dpic, you object on f-spot because you are against C#?
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: yes, seems so
[10:34] <seb128> dpic, just curious
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, ok, could you cherrypick that too?
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: seems we don't install that file at all
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: sure
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, that would fix this epiphany build issue
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, it's not a file but a dir?
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: oops, we install that in -backends
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors/gdu.monitor
[10:34] <seb128> $ dlocate /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors
[10:34] <seb128> gvfs-backends: /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors
[10:34] <seb128> gvfs-backends: /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors/gdu.monitor
[10:34] <seb128> gvfs-backends: /usr/share/gvfs/remote-volume-monitors/gphoto2.monitor
[10:35] <dpic> seb128: no, not at all, i've just never met anybody that liked or used f-spot...
[10:35] <pitti> seb128: yep, will do
[10:35] <dpic> seb128: the other projects seemed to be on a level of F-Spot even though they were much younger
[10:35] <seb128> dpic, I do use and like it
[10:35] <dpic> seb128: i'm not saying nobody does, i just have never met anybody
[10:35] <seb128> dpic, they are not, they get no testing, no timeline, no export to web services
[10:36] <seb128> you should try using f-spot and compare features
[10:36] <seb128> things like export to flickr should be working
[10:36] <seb128> or picasa
[10:36] <seb128> or to galleries
[10:38] <dpic> seb128: that was for solang, which hasn't done it because it will be doing more than just exporting to other services. shotwell is already there and i'm not sure about gthumb
[10:38] <seb128> dpic, what project will do or not is not revelant for this cycle choice
[10:38] <seb128> f-spot will do ton of cool things too if you look at their roadmap
[10:39] <dpic> seb128: okay...
[10:39] <seb128> as long it's not done it's not revelant though, it's easy to say you will do something it's harder to do it properly
[10:39] <seb128> they might never do it
[10:39] <seb128> or get bored and stop working on the project
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, btw do you want me to look at the afc backend today?
[10:40] <seb128> and do the libiphone mir?
[10:40] <pitti> if you want, sure
[10:40] <pitti> I'm afraid I'm a bit busy today with the release stuff
[10:40] <seb128> well I want those to land before end of year and since we are archive frozen and I start getting bored
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: want me to upload above two gvfs fixes now, though?
[10:40] <seb128> please do
[10:41] <pitti> okay
[10:41] <seb128> I've spent almost a day on nautilus without luck
[10:41] <seb128> it's not wasting time
[10:41] <seb128> or not in obvious way
[10:41] <dpic> seb128: you seem to have just focused on solang there. and i wasn't saying it was relevant to the cycle choice, i was simply explaining why. similar to why empathy hasn't implemented metacontacts (because they're going to use People or Soylent which is better than just mushing people together like pidgin).
[10:42] <seb128> dpic, I didn't focus on anything, I just say that we have good reason to use a known codebase maintained for years rather than a new project which might crash in 2 months because hackers get bored
[10:43] <dpic> seb128: right...you seem to think i want this forced into lucid.
[10:43] <seb128> no, I'm just very surprised you consider that users are in favor of the change when all you got is 2 replies from random mailing lists guys
[10:44] <seb128> that doesn't seem a solid metric
[10:44] <seb128> looking at popcon to start would be something
[10:56] <seb128_> re
[10:56] <seb128_> other side of the split
[10:57] <seb128_> dpic, sorry got cut by the split
[10:57] <seb128_> dpic, http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
[10:57] <seb128_> dpic, solang and shotwell got some 160 and 60 user votes
[10:58] <seb128_> f-spot got almost 41 000
[10:58] <seb128_> so I was saying too
[10:58] <seb128_>   
[10:58] <pitti> well, that's hardly a meaningful number
[10:59] <pitti> since we install it by default
[10:59] <seb128_> pitti, well I looked at the votes column not the installed one but right f-spot number is not revelant
[10:59] <seb128_> it just shows that the other ones don't have a solid userbase
[11:00] <seb128_> gthumb has some 27000 votes
[11:00] <seb128_> and it's not installed by default
[11:00] <seb128_> anyway enough on that topic
[11:00] <seb128_>  
[11:00]  * pitti hugs gthumb
[11:00] <seb128_> so moving conf.d away wins some 2 seconds at login
[11:00] <seb128_> half of nautilus start time is due to fontconfig
[11:00] <pitti> !
[11:00] <seb128_> we have too many configs and fonts there...
[11:00] <pitti> which conf.d?
[11:00] <seb128_> how do we address that?
[11:00] <seb128_> pitti, /etc/font/conf.d
[11:01] <seb128_> the fontconfig dir
[11:01] <seb128_> pitti, /etc/fonts/conf.d
[11:01] <pitti> ah
[11:01] <seb128_> sorry
[11:01] <pitti> np, found it
[11:02] <seb128_> also we have fontconfig 2.6 and upstream is 2.8 now for a while
[11:02] <seb128_> we lack a fontconfig maintainer
[11:02] <rodrigo_> seb128_: do I need anything else apart from the gconf-defaults file? It seems it doesn't take my change
[11:02] <rodrigo_> hey pedro__!!!
[11:03] <pedro__> hola rodrigo_!
[11:03] <seb128_> rodrigo_, no, is the .defaults installed in the binary?
[11:03] <pedro__> bonjour seb128_
[11:03] <seb128_> rodrigo_, dpkg -c binary.deb | grep gconf
[11:03] <seb128_> ola pedro__
[11:04] <rodrigo_> seb128_: ah, yes, it's there:
[11:04] <rodrigo_> -rw-r--r-- root/root       141 2009-12-09 11:50 ./usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_rhythmbox
[11:04] <rodrigo_> I was looking at the original .schemas file
[11:04] <seb128_> what is the file content?
[11:04] <seb128_> are you sure the value is not set?
[11:04] <rodrigo_> in the .schemas file after installing the package, it's not
[11:04] <seb128_> right but the .schemas is not used
[11:04] <rodrigo_> /apps/rhythmbox/plugins/power-manager/active    false
[11:05] <rodrigo_> /apps/rhythmbox/plugins/power-manager/hidden    false
[11:05] <rodrigo_> /apps/rhythmbox/monitor_library                 true
[11:05] <seb128_> defaults take over schemas
[11:05] <rodrigo_> I added the monitor_library line
[11:05] <seb128_> try in a guest session
[11:05] <seb128_> should be working
[11:05] <seb128_> we layout the gconf dirs to have defaults used first then schemas
[11:06] <rodrigo_> oh, right, it works indeed
[11:06] <seb128_> cool
[11:06] <rodrigo_> I was looking in the wrong place then
[11:07] <seb128_> rodrigo_, /etc/gconf/2/path has the directories layout
[11:07] <seb128_> if you are interested
[11:07] <rodrigo_> ok
[11:07] <seb128_> the 2 bottom entries are those
[11:08] <seb128_> the debian default is built from the defaults dir
[11:08] <seb128_> using update-gconf-defaults, which is called a package installation
[11:10] <seb128_> pitti, how do you suggest we process to get fontconfig updated for lucid?
[11:10] <seb128_> pitti, talk to the foundation team about it?
[11:10] <pitti> it's a desktop package
[11:10] <seb128_> :-(
[11:10] <seb128_> I though it was a doko sort of package
[11:10] <pitti> closest maintainer is probably ArneGoetje
[11:11] <pitti> seb128_: I see one commit in git log which talks about speedup
[11:12] <pitti> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/commit/?id=31e0f0321057a7612ed5a7fa890dad09e6a53ee6
[11:12] <seb128> in fact asac did most of the recent work
[11:12] <pitti> but no idea how much that brings, or whether it's relevant at all
[11:13] <asac> ArneGoetje wanted to make a package for testing with latest upstream release
[11:13] <baptistemm> FYI I did a fontconfig packaging for 2.8.0 and update the big patch inside
[11:14] <asac> baptistemm: that big patch should be reviewed/stripped down
[11:14] <asac> baptistemm: but cool. do you have that in some PPA for testing?
[11:14] <baptistemm> yep
[11:14] <seb128> hey baptistemm
[11:14] <seb128> baptistemm, are you still working on the gnome-bluetooth update?
[11:15] <baptistemm> I was not able to produce a debdif as it said to me the expected size problem I don't recall
[11:15] <seb128> ?
[11:16] <baptistemm> asac, https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=karmic
[11:16] <asac> hmm
[11:17] <asac> baptistemm: there is a diff.gz there. not sure why debdiff wouldnt work
[11:17] <baptistemm> asac, I was responding to seb128 sorry
[11:17] <asac> ah ok
[11:17] <seb128> baptistemm, do you have specifics about the error?
[11:17] <baptistemm> seb128, I ddon't recall the error message
[11:17] <seb128> could you try?
[11:17] <seb128> did you do lot of work on it?
[11:18] <baptistemm> I call clook at it tonight after 21:00
[11:18] <seb128> are you still interested to finish that work?
[11:18] <baptistemm> yep o course
[11:18] <seb128> cool
[11:18] <baptistemm> it is just I don't have a lot of free time due to new job
[11:19] <seb128> that's ok
[11:19] <seb128> just tell us if you are too busy to work on it
[11:19] <seb128> so the update don't get blocked on you
[11:19] <baptistemm> okay so my objective #1 is gnome-bluetooth
[11:19] <seb128> cool
[11:20] <baptistemm> I did some gvfs and nautilus update alos, gvfs was fine, but I stuck on nautilus of libtoolize patch
[11:20] <baptistemm> +'m
[11:20] <seb128> gvfs is a bit tricky, we have 1.5 in lucid now
[11:20] <seb128> and I'm not sure the update is worth a karmic update
[11:20] <baptistemm> for gnome-bluetooth the change is already in my ppa
[11:21] <seb128> baptistemm, oh nice
[11:21] <seb128> asac, ^ do you think you could review those?
[11:21] <hugolp> hi, I installed empathy from the ppa (using Karmic) and the Msn voice protocol is not working. Its the first time I am using it. Do I need some package for that or is it not working?
[11:21] <asac> yes
[11:21] <baptistemm> yeah, gvfs is kind of tricky because you have to weight the good and the bad to update it on karmic
[11:22] <baptistemm> I use it for days without issue
[11:22] <seb128> hugolp, ask on #telepathy
[11:22] <seb128> hugolp, we don't maintain that ppa
[11:22] <seb128> asac, thanks
[11:23] <baptistemm> seb128, usually any update I'm working on I build it in my ppa if possible :)
[11:23] <asac> hmm ... why does lp show a debdiff from 2.27.9
[11:23] <asac> or was that the version i prepatched?
[11:23]  * asac checks
[11:23] <asac> no... we have 2.28.1
[11:23] <baptistemm> asac, perhaps the pversion I'e uploaded previously in my ppa
[11:24] <baptistemm> I used to uploaded it in my ppa for building and testing
[11:24] <asac> yeah. most likely
[11:24] <baptistemm> need to go out for lunch, but don't hesitate to leave me some messages, I'll to them when I'm back
[11:26] <hugolp> seb128 ok
[11:51] <pitti> seb128: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa now has a native fontconfig 2.8.0 update
[11:52] <pitti> it doesn't make my desktop explode and chinese spam in terminal, www.news.cn in firefox, and gucharmap still look fine for my untrained eyes
[11:52] <pitti> seb128: perhaps you can upgrade to it on the mini and see whether it makes any difference at all?
[11:53] <pitti> seb128: after the update, please do dpkg -P --force-depends fontconfig-config, and then reinstall; I didn't create preinst magic to remove the obsolete conffiles which aren't in the new version
[11:53] <baptistemm> pitti, it used to crash with version 2.7.2 and upper IIRc
[11:54] <pitti> "it"?
[11:54] <baptistemm> fontconfig
[11:54] <baptistemm> hmm, it make all gtk+ crashing on upgrade
[11:54] <baptistemm> made
[11:55] <pitti> perhaps that got fixed in 2.8?
[11:55] <baptistemm> yep, it is
[11:55] <pitti> anyway, it's a PPA
[11:55] <baptistemm> pitti, if you're interested with I ported the big diff.gz patch in my ppa
[11:55] <pitti> if 2.8 brings any significant benefit, I'm fine with doing proper conffile handling
[11:55] <seb128> pitti, oh, cool, thanks
[11:56] <baptistemm> 2.8 brings memory and performance improvements accordling a behdad post I read
[11:56] <pitti> baptistemm: debian/patches/00_old_diff_gz.patch you mean?
[11:56] <baptistemm> yep
[11:56] <pitti> ths is the strangest patch name ever..
[11:56] <baptistemm> yes
[11:56] <seb128> I think somebody didn't want to try to understand the debian changesets
[11:56] <pitti> baptistemm: so you have a clue about fontconfig?
[11:57] <seb128> and dumped the diff.gz changes in a patch
[11:57] <pitti> I just ignored that patch for now
[11:57] <pitti> baptistemm: if you have a proper 2.8.0 package somewhere, this is highly appreciated, of course!
[11:57] <baptistemm> pitti, I remebmer asking here what is the purpose of this patch
[11:57] <baptistemm> :)
[11:57]  * pitti congratulates the new voluntary fontconfig maintainer
[11:58] <baptistemm> gniii
[11:58] <baptistemm> I don't undertand what is the purpose of fontconfig :)
[11:58] <pitti> j/k
[11:58] <pitti> baptistemm: anyway, if you ported the patch already, no need to do it again then; thanks
[12:00] <pitti> baptistemm: roughly, you can configure the prefered order for fonts for a particular family (like serif, sans serif, courier-like) and locale
[12:01] <baptistemm> yeah, I remember this it introduced a new policy on top of over in the list
[12:01] <baptistemm> s/this//
[12:01] <baptistemm> s/policy/font/ huuu
[12:01] <baptistemm> I mix french and english
[12:04] <baptistemm> I updated the patch week or months ago, in the 2.7.x but too late for karmic I think
[12:05] <pitti> seb128: built and published now, FYI
[12:05]  * pitti goes back to fiddling CD images
[12:08] <seb128> pitti, ok, trying that in a minute
[12:08] <seb128> I'm going back to normal config first
[12:17] <baptistemm> seb128, save your work before the fontconfig upgrade, just a small advice :)
[12:17] <seb128> baptistemm, that box is a boot speed charting one, it has no work it keeps rebooting with a stock config or small changes
[12:18] <baptistemm> ah okay
[12:18] <pitti> seems a good time right now to grab some lunch, bbl
[12:20] <seb128> same here
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, no real win in the fontconfig update
[12:31] <asac> hmm
[12:31] <asac> seb128: whats the bug you are trying to nail down with that?
[12:31] <seb128> asac, boot speed
[12:31] <seb128> asac, removing /etc/fonts/conf.d wins us 2 seconds at login
[12:31] <seb128> I'm wondering if there is a way we could simplify our config or clean it
[12:32] <seb128> we tried if the 2.8 update speeds things too
[12:32] <seb128> but not so much
[12:32] <asac> maybe the fc cache is not properly updated?
[12:32] <asac> there is definitly room for improvement
[12:32] <asac> bunch of stuff was added to conf.d
[12:33] <seb128> the caching seem to work
[12:33] <seb128> strace on nautilus shows it open those correctly
[12:33] <asac> seb128: the user cache or the system cache (cant remember if there is such a thing)
[12:33] <seb128> but all the config parsing seems to take time
[12:33] <asac> seb128: hmm.
[12:33] <seb128> /var/cache/fontconfig/*
[12:33] <seb128> those caches
[12:34] <seb128> we have a lot of those though
[12:35] <baptistemm> I have 29 files
[12:35] <asac> there also is ~/.fontconfig/
[12:35] <asac> which is the user caches
[12:35] <seb128> right, the mini is stock install though
[12:35] <seb128> ie no user fonts installed
[12:36] <asac> seb128: so after logging in do you have .fontconfig/*
[12:36] <asac> ?
[12:36] <asac> i dont have user fonts installed afaik and still have those caches
[12:36] <seb128> yes indeed
[12:37] <seb128> seems identic to the system caches
[12:39] <asac> seb128: so 2 seconds on first login or on every login?
[12:39] <seb128> every login
[13:08] <pitti> seb128: thanks for testing anyway
[13:10] <pitti> why do we need a per-user cache anyway?
[13:11] <seb128> pitti, could be because that cache is system + user fonts?
[13:12] <baptistemm> pitti, because user can drop font in .fonts
[13:12] <pitti> right, but why have an extra system cache then?
[13:12] <baptistemm> for system fonts ?
[13:12] <pitti> (also, it should be in .cache/fontconfig, but that's another issue)
[13:13] <seb128> baptistemm, the question is if the user cache include system fonts why do you need a system cache
[13:13] <baptistemm> I didn't look at the content of the cache
[13:13] <seb128> and I dunno
[13:14] <pitti> seb128: btw, feel free to retry epiphany builds now (or what package was it again?)
[13:16] <seb128> pitti, I workaround the build issue yesterday but that means we can sync again for next upload
[13:20] <asac> seb128: the idea is that the system cache helps boosting the caching on user side
[13:21] <asac> so user does not need to create all the cache pieces etc.
[13:22] <seb128> ok
[13:28] <asac> baptistemm: seb128: you could try --enable-libxml2 and see if that gives a boost in xml parsing
[13:28] <asac> (rather than expat)
[13:33] <seb128> asac, good idea
[13:33] <pitti> oh, you think it actually spends a large amount of time on XML parsing?
[13:34] <asac> just an idea. i would hope not
[13:34] <seb128> it doesn't cost a lot to try
[13:36] <asac> thats what i am thinking
[13:40] <asac> hmm isnt time_t unsigned?
[13:44] <seb128> not sure
[13:44] <seb128> internet seems to say it depends of implementations
[13:44] <seb128> not sure what the glibc is doing there
[13:45] <pitti> asac: out of interest, why would you care?
[13:46] <pitti> from my naive gut feeling it should be signed
[13:46] <pitti> if that's the number of seconds since 01-01-1970
[13:46] <pitti> (so that you can represent a date like 1950, too)
[13:47] <asac> pitti: just saw code that checked whether X - now > 0
[13:47] <asac> and then triggers reparsing of fonts etc.
[13:47] <asac> but i guess thats not the problem
[13:47] <asac> i tried it with a small example program and it worked as expecte
[13:48] <asac> FcConfigUptoDate
[13:48] <asac> src/fccfg.c
[13:49] <asac> hmm rescanTime is set to 0
[13:49] <asac> in init
[13:49] <asac> so there willl be a rescan on each app start
[13:52] <pitti> it scans the font cache or the actual fonts?
[13:53] <asac> it scans for config + fonts
[13:53] <asac> and compares that to the font caches afaik
[13:53] <seb128> building with libxml doesn't make a difference
[13:53] <asac> so if anything changed it parses and recalculates stuff etc.
[13:53] <asac> ok thanks seb128
[13:53] <pitti> seb128: :( thanks for trying
[13:53] <seb128> the time difference between the empty config and ours might just be due to rendering options
[13:54] <baptistemm> asac, sorry I was away.
[13:54] <seb128> the antialiasing etc probably uses extra cpu
[13:54] <asac> you could try to turn that off individually
[13:54] <seb128> right, will do that next
[13:54] <asac> anyway ... lunchtime now
[13:54] <seb128> asac, enjoy
[13:54] <asac> thx
[13:55] <Laney> j
[13:55] <Laney> oops
[14:05] <pitti> seb128: so you don't want abiword on the Ubuntu DVD any more?
[14:06] <seb128> pitti, sorry I closed the other chan while wanting to close a browser tab
[14:06] <seb128> I'm playing with multi screen today, using laptop screen + docked one
[14:06] <seb128> but I tend to close things on the wrong screen
[14:06] <pitti> seb128: oh, does that work for you? whenever I open the laptop screen in the dock, everything just goes black
[14:06] <seb128> pitti, I don't really care about abiword
[14:07] <pitti> seb128: anyway, I wonder whether to fix the seeded package names or drop it
[14:07] <seb128> pitti, works fine there, I used the capplet to configure those
[14:07] <seb128> pitti, well if abiword go to universe drop it
[14:07] <pitti> *sniff*
[14:07] <seb128> if it stays in main for edubuntu rename
[14:07] <pitti> I'll rename it for now
[14:08] <seb128> I'm not wanting to do the mir work for it nor having to maintain an ubuntu diff only to keep it in main
[14:08] <seb128> but if xubuntu or edubuntu people want that's all good
[14:08] <pitti> right, no problem, though; it's just a b-dep
[14:08] <pitti> so doesn't break DVDs or anything
[14:09] <pitti> bah, we still have "planner" in the seeds
[14:09] <pitti> nobody cares about that one..
[14:09] <seb128> no, please drop to universe
[14:09] <pitti> project management isn't really a common need IMHO
[14:09] <pitti> right, let's
[14:12] <seb128> pitti, not sure how much testing you want for your fontconfig 2.8
[14:13] <seb128> pitti, kenvandine did a call for testing gtk csd in the ppa
[14:13] <seb128> users will likely grab ours too
[14:13] <seb128> yours
[14:13] <pitti> oh
[14:13] <pitti> seb128: well, if it doesn't help boot speed, no need to hurry it
[14:13] <pitti> so, feel free to remove
[14:13] <seb128> pitti, right, just pointing in case you want to move or delete it
[14:13] <seb128> well I've no strong opinion either way
[14:14] <seb128> we can use those testers to test the fontconfig update too :-p
[14:14] <pitti> heh
[14:14] <pitti> if it doesn't hurt, it's probably good to have the update anyway
[14:14] <seb128> ok good
[14:31] <dobey> pitti: hrmm, no. it creates a file in ~/.config/autostart/ when you get a token
[14:32] <pitti> dobey: ah, thanks
[14:36] <dobey> pitti: so i'm getting some fixes backported to our stable branches for ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client... storage-protocol has a few fixes, and client plenty more. is it reasonable to do new version uploads for karmic, or do i need to make debdiffs?
[14:38] <rickspencer3> bonjour all
[14:38] <pitti> cava rickspencer3
[14:39] <pitti> dobey: it's not very important if they are patches or a new upstream release (the latter is probably easier for you)
[14:39] <pitti> dobey: the main point is to not make many changes in the first place, to minimize regression potential
[14:41] <dobey> pitti: right. but i'm only allowing bug fixes that affect karmic to be backported to our stable branches. :)
[14:41] <pitti> dobey: given U1's nature, we certainly do want fixes for data-loss bugs
[14:41] <pitti> dobey: (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When for the criteria which changes are acceptable)
[14:42] <rickspencer3> looks like more problems with csd and rgb rolling in :(
[14:42] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:42] <asac> hi
[14:43] <seb128> rickspencer3, see ppa testing was a good thing ;-)
[14:44] <dobey> pitti: yep, those are the kinds of fixes we're wanting to get in an SRU :)
[14:45] <pitti> dobey: just do a new upstream bug fix release then (unless you prefer patches)
[14:46] <dobey> pitti: no, i prefer new upstream release. i just wanted to verify such was ok to do for ubuntu :)
[14:52] <asac> dobey: bug-fix only upstream releases are ok. take care to document each and every change at best with a LP bug
[14:52] <asac> e.g. dont slip stuff in you wanted to fix that doesnt meet the SRU requirements above
[14:54] <dobey> asac: yep. thanks :)
[15:17] <fagan> pitti: Ive got a regression in lucid after deHALification
[15:17] <fagan> Just tested it again to see if it was still broken
[15:17] <fagan> It worked in karmic
[15:18] <fagan> I have nvidia drivers though
[15:20] <fagan> pitti: my lshal|grep power_management.quirk  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/338049/
[15:26] <fagan> Oh did I forget to mention it was a suspend problem
[15:31] <mac_v_> seb128: hi... regarding Bug 494541 , you mentioned there was a reason the music files opened in totem... iirc, it was because rhythmbox is a jukebox and cant be used for single files?
[15:32] <mac_v_> is this even a valid bug? or where is it a bug in? should we just mark it wont fix?
[15:32] <seb128> mac_v_, not that it can't be it will be slow to start, have confusing interface and add the song to the library
[15:32] <seb128> that's not because you double click on a song you downloaded that you want to add it to your library
[15:32] <seb128> you probably want to listen to it to decide what to do
[15:33] <seb128> that's why an easy player is used
[15:33] <mac_v_> ah , right.
[15:33] <mvo> pitti: I commited a different diff now (from upstream) to compiz
[16:07] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[16:07] <seb128> pitti, I've filed mir bugs for libiphone, usbmuxd and libplist
[16:08] <seb128> I've the feeling some people will not like those though
[16:08] <asac> pitti: can we have a first shuffeling for MIR assignments after alpha-1 is out?
[16:08] <asac> first round of assignments i mean ;)
[16:09] <asac> i can also go through and assign those currently new if you wont have time to do that
[16:10] <pitti> asac: please go ahead
[16:10] <asac> yep ... will do that then. thx
[16:11] <pitti> asac: (sorry, on call now, and doing release stuff)
[16:18] <seb128> pitti, still busy I guess?
[16:48] <seb128> mvo, got a software-properties contributor? ;-)
[16:51] <mvo> seb128: yes!
[16:51] <seb128> good ;-)
[16:55] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the MIRs
[16:55] <seb128> pitti, np
[16:55] <pitti> asac: I still have the MIR page open, I'll do the remaining assignments tomorrow or so (if you don't beat me to it)
[16:56] <asac> pitti: check what is left tomorrow. i wanted to go through it close to EOD
[16:56] <pitti> fagan: thanks; mbiebl gets it, too, I'll track it down with him first
[16:56] <pitti> asac: will do; danke
[16:57] <fagan> thanks pitti
[16:57] <didrocks> seb128: do you know if there is a cleaner way to stop a second gdm-simple-slave launched by gdmflexiserver than killing it with the new GDM?
[16:59] <seb128> didrocks, dunno
[16:59] <seb128> I'm not sure to even understand the question
[16:59] <seb128> I've never looked at how and when slave are started
[17:00] <didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/338092/ I want to stop the second gdm-simple-slave (launched with gdmflexiserver)
[17:00] <didrocks> I'll kill it so
[17:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, looks like beefy Dx release planned for tomorrow
[17:22]  * rickspencer3 looks forward
[17:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, what fancy coming? ;-)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidWeeklyReleases
[17:24] <rickspencer3> oops, forgot kenvandine is taking a holiday today
[17:24] <seb128> clutter?!
[17:25] <seb128> davidbarth, ^ gtk still needs work from your side, it makes gksu and banshee crash right now
[17:25] <seb128> otherwise looks like a good set of update coming, good ;-)
[17:25] <seb128> and kenvandine can upload without sponsoring now \o/ ;-)
[17:27] <seb128> looking forward updates to do tomorrow
[17:27] <seb128> today has been somewhat depressive day, I got notice done
[17:27]  * seb128 hates writing mirs
[17:36] <asac> seb128: just add a good rational that puts the package in some context ;)
[17:37] <seb128> asac, the rational is not the issue the zillions questions is
[17:43] <bjf> tseliot, I think I've run into http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/16979 after a lucid dist-upgrade (Note: I'm also seeing something similar with the live-cd iso)
[17:45] <tseliot> bjf: are you sure that it's the same problem (e.g. same backtrace, etc.)?
[17:45] <bjf> tseliot, looks the same to me, see https://pastebin.canonical.com/25544/  (my Xorg.0.log)
[17:47] <tseliot> bjf: yes, it seems to be the same. Can you file a bug report about it, please?
[17:47] <bjf> tseliot, will do
[17:47] <tseliot> thanks
[17:56] <bjf> tseliot, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/494627
[18:25]  * mac_v cries as chrisccoulson pushes another bug to humanity :(
[18:25] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - :P
[18:26] <chrisccoulson> i wish users would stop reporting icon theme issues against desktop packages ;)
[18:27] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - i take it you watch the humanity bugs then?
[18:27] <chrisccoulson> you're always quick to respond ;)
[18:28] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: well since i'v done the icons ,  eventually i'd have to respond ;)
[18:28] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - so i can blame you for icon issues then? ;)
[18:28] <mac_v> yup , guilty ;p
[18:29] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: until the librsvg is patched to use symbolic icons and automatically change color to match the text  , the user needs to change the theme to humanity-dark... or use a transparent panel ... there is not solution for this :(
[18:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the tray icons are tricky to get right in all situations, as users can use any combination of icon theme / panel background colour
[18:30] <chrisccoulson> so maybe you should just close the bug for now, and tell the user to use the other theme ;)
[18:31] <chrisccoulson> i think there will always be some corner case combinations of GTK and icon themes that will suck visually
[18:31] <mac_v> yeah
[18:31] <chrisccoulson> but then, i'm not an artist, so I'm probably talking rubbish ;)
[18:33] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: nah , you're right... that panel is the weirdest color i'v seen ;p
[18:34] <davidbarth> seb128: yes, seen that; we'll postpone the upload until these issues are fixed; thanks for the feedback
[18:35] <seb128> davidbarth, don't worry about uploads, just get the issues fixed and we will do our side of the work and get it in lucid ;-)
[18:35] <seb128> davidbarth, thanks
[18:41] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:45] <tseliot> bjf: thanks, I'll have a look at it ASAP
[19:23] <rickspencer3> bye pitti
[19:24] <bryce> heya rickspencer3
[19:24] <rickspencer3> hi bryce
[19:25] <rickspencer3> bryce, you are vacation, right?
[19:25] <rickspencer3> dropping into #ubuntu-desktop for some sun and fun?
[19:25] <bryce> rickspencer3, yeah, just about to head out and do some shopping, just waiting on the wife
[19:25]  * rickspencer3 nods
[19:25] <rickspencer3> bryce, I've made good progress on bughugger to handle your reports better
[19:25] <bryce> kewl
[19:25] <rickspencer3> and I started a new widget library while I'm at it
[19:26] <rickspencer3> ;)
[19:26] <bryce> yeah been doing some minor debugging on my end
[19:26] <rickspencer3> bryce, could you change "bug_num" to be "id"?
[19:26] <bryce> sure
[19:27] <bryce> I found had to switch things around to do tempfile's properly (the different teams were stepping on each other's toes)
[19:27] <rickspencer3> ah
[19:27] <bryce> also switched the scripts from using edge to using production (been getting lots of 503/502's lately)
[19:27] <rickspencer3> oh
[19:27] <bryce> btw I added one new query for us
[19:28] <rickspencer3> in fact, even production I am finding lp scripts slow this week
[19:28] <bryce> ok, yeah I'm still seeing a lot but haven't looked at it since I changed
[19:28] <bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/ubuntu-audio/high-karma-bugs.json
[19:28] <bryce> this query is for "bugs reported by people with high karma"
[19:29] <bryce> where for now high == ">1000" but I might tweak that upwards
[19:29] <asac> 30k ;)
[19:29] <bryce> asac, hehe
[19:29] <rickspencer3> nice
[19:29] <asac> distro karma
[19:29] <bryce> asac, unfortunately launchpadlib doesn't give much fidelity here, just one parameter "karma"
[19:30] <bryce> but the idea here is that I'm assuming people with high karma are going to be more likely to produce actionable bug reports, or at least will be reasonably responsive to requests
[19:32] <asac> i think we should then filter by karmic of "me too" and not by reporter ...otherwise we wont look at bugs me tooed by high karma folks that were filed by strangers.
[19:32] <asac> or we encourage filing duplicates if you see that the original reporter has a low karma ;)
[19:33] <bryce> rickspencer3, asac, ccheney, oh this reminds me, I couldn't find a "mozilla-bugs" or "firefox-pkgs" type team subbed to firefox & co. so haven't set up a team for that
[19:33] <asac> like "affects me" should be enough to bost
[19:33] <asac> bryce: we have a ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs afaik
[19:33] <bryce> ahh ok
[19:34] <asac> at least i would think that its subscribed because all the relevant bugmail is somehow channeled to the mailing list
[19:34] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-bugs
[19:34] <bryce> aha
[19:36] <bryce> asac, yes you're right that this'll miss bugs me-too'd by high karma folks, but those we'll just need to identify through some other query
[19:37] <bryce> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-bugs/+packagebugs
[19:38] <bryce> sweet that's exactly what I need, thanks asac
[19:38] <bryce> ok, mozilla json files should be up within a few hours
[19:39] <asac> bryce: what client are we supposed to use to consume that?
[19:40] <seb128> I was going to ask what to do with those too
[19:41] <bryce> asac, bughugger
[19:41] <bryce> rickspencer3, not seeing where 'bug_num' is showing up?
[19:42] <rickspencer3> oh?
[19:42] <rickspencer3> never mind
[19:42] <bryce> seb128, I also have a finished report for patches that I think you'll like - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/desktop-bugs/patches.html
[19:42] <bryce> seb128, note that the columns are sortable, so you can see your newest or oldest patches
[19:43] <bryce> seb128, I found this report to be extraordinarily useful for X to get patches taken care of; perhaps you would as well
[19:43] <seb128> bryce, oh, nice, thanks!
[19:43] <bryce> ok, wife is calling me away, bbl
[19:43] <rickspencer3> bye bye bryce
[19:44] <seb128> waouh, lot of patches listed there
[19:44] <seb128> good list to look at in any case
[19:44] <seb128> bryce, have fun, thanks
[20:52] <snoopy1alpha> hi!
[21:06] <seb128> dpic, btw solang was in karmic and got removed from debian and lucid because it's buggy and using outdated libraries
[21:15] <rickspencer3> whois sebner
[21:16] <rickspencer3> oops
[22:06] <seb128> hey Guest31424
[22:07] <seb128> Guest31424, try to be anonymous today? ;-)
[22:07] <seb128> trying
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> do custom screensavers work for anyone else in lucid?
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> i just get a blank screen here
[22:08] <Guest31424> seb128, damn! you got me :)
[22:08] <seb128> ;-)
[22:09] <seb128> there is not so many .au joining there ;-)
[22:09] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm filling your inbox with simple-scan bugs
[22:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what is custom?
[22:09] <robert_ancell> seb128, no, it's my new laptop.   maybe a setting is wrong...
[22:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i meant anything other than a blank screen. if i select a screensaver theme in the preferences, it doesn't work (i only get a blank screen now)
[22:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, it's weird because you had the correct nickname on the other irc server
[22:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, same here
[22:11] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wonder why it's not working now
[22:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, could be gtk...
[22:12] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, possibly
[22:12] <chrisccoulson> i'll try downgrading
[22:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh my inbox is stuffed - I haven't copied over the filters yet :)
[22:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, is that worth opening bugs about UI issues or is that known to be crap right now?
[22:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah just open them.  There is a discussion bug open already so you can add to that or make new ones.  I'll mass close them if it gets completely rewritten
[22:15] <seb128> ok
[22:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the screensavers don't work with the stock GTK either
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> and if I run /usr/lib/xscreensaver/glblur, it crashes metacity
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> weird!
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok, i can run non-GL screensavers ok by calling them manually
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> so it looks like a gnome-screensaver issue then
[22:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, doesn't seems to be one
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> [manager_select_theme_for_job] gs-manager.c:250 (22:27:34):	 Could not find information for theme: fiberlamp
[22:28] <seb128> downgrading to 2.28.0-0ubuntu1 doesn't make a difference...
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> ^^^seems to be a clue there
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> it might be a recent xscreensaver change
[22:29] <seb128> right
[22:32] <Amaranth> pitti: I have no idea how that part of compiz works
[22:32] <seb128> Amaranth, what was the question there?
[22:33] <Amaranth> pitti: oh, looks like mvo and maniac103 already fixed it, never mind
[22:33] <Amaranth> seb128: fixing compiz FTBFS due to KDE changes
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it might even be the gnome-menus change which breaks it
[22:33] <seb128> right
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver gets the theme info from desktop files in /usr/share/applications/screensaver using gnome-menus
[22:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, indeed it is
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you try the previous version?
[22:34] <seb128> removing the gnome-menus cache fixes the preview immediatly
[22:34] <seb128> no, I just removed the cache
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, that makes sense then :)
[22:34] <seb128> it uses the old codepath when there is no cache
[22:35] <chrisccoulson> i'll leave that for pitti to look at for now then. i've got other stuff i need to finish :)
[22:35] <seb128> do you have a bug?
[22:35] <seb128> if not could you quickly open one and assign it to pitti?
[22:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, someone else just reported it. i'll assign that one to pitti
[22:35] <seb128> thanks
[22:36] <Amaranth> hrm, xchat-gnome has once again broken (doesn't show me highlights or messages for other channels)
[22:36] <Amaranth> oh, and I can't click on links to open them either, says too many pipes
[22:38] <seb128> ok, bughugger doesn't work for me
[22:38] <seb128> it's running for 15 minutes and still bouncing to get gconf-editor bugs
[22:38] <seb128> and there is almost no bug on this one
[22:39] <rickspencer3> hmm
[22:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, what point did it get stuck at?
[22:39] <Amaranth> ha, synaptic is smarter than aptitude at managing this upgrade, nice
[22:39] <seb128> rickspencer3, retrieving bugs from launchpad bouncing bar
[22:39] <rickspencer3> hmm
[22:40] <seb128>     return not self == other
[22:40] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/lazr/restfulclient/resource.py", line 603, in __eq__
[22:40] <seb128>     self.self_link == other.self_link and
[22:40] <seb128> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'self_link'
[22:40] <seb128> there is that on the command line
[22:40] <seb128> dunno if that's revelent
[22:40] <rickspencer3> looks like it crashed
[22:40] <seb128> it does it every time
[22:40] <rickspencer3> hmm
[22:40] <seb128> I tried 5 times now
[22:40] <seb128> I'm using lp:bughugger
[22:40] <rickspencer3> that's in lazr
[22:40] <seb128> dunno if that's the right one to use?
[22:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, I think you want the one in the bughuggers ppa
[22:41] <rickspencer3> but it seems that it's running really slowly for me this week
[22:42] <rickspencer3> sometimes queries taking a very long time to come back
[22:42]  * rickspencer3 tries gconf editor
[22:42]  * rickspencer3 notes tiime
[22:42] <rickspencer3> that took like 2 seconds
[22:43] <rickspencer3> there are only 8 bugs ;)
[22:43] <rickspencer3> and it's a simple query for LP
[22:43] <seb128> yes, I picked what I though would be a quick to download example ;-)
[22:45] <Amaranth> wow xchat-gnome is now showing everything (even me typing as blocks
[22:45] <Amaranth> time to reload
[22:45] <rickspencer3> huh
[22:46] <rickspencer3> I'm trying it on a bughugger instance that I am developing on, and it's taking a lot longer
[22:46] <rickspencer3> lp can be pretty non-deterministic ;)
[22:46] <rickspencer3> lol
[22:47] <rickspencer3> silly lp
[22:48] <seb128> rickspencer3, same crash on the ppa version
[22:48] <rickspencer3> weird
[22:49] <seb128> I found a bug too
[22:49] <seb128> open the package bugs dialog
[22:49] <seb128> hit esc
[22:49] <seb128> try opening it again
[22:50] <rickspencer3> weird
[22:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, I guess the version of lazr in Lucid is busted?
[22:50] <seb128> could be
[22:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, should I understand you don't run lucid? ;-)
[22:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, not yet
[22:52] <rickspencer3> am planning to update with A1
[22:52] <rickspencer3> at least I was
[22:52] <rickspencer3> ;)
[22:52] <rickspencer3> should I do an ISO install or dist-upgrade?
[22:52] <seb128> lol
[22:53] <seb128> depends of your bandwith
[22:53] <rickspencer3> then I'll do both
[22:53] <seb128> I would be carreful about alpha installs though, if you don't have backup of your user dir maybe better to upgrade than to try an install
[22:53] <rickspencer3> I'll download the ISO, and then dist-upgrade from that
[22:54] <seb128> dist-upgrade should be easier in any case
[22:54] <seb128> you don't have to reinstall everything you need
[22:54] <rickspencer3> yeah, I have my data set up so I can pretty much blow away my hard drive and then redownload everything
[22:54] <rickspencer3> it's all in U1, lp, or on my external drive
[22:55] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:55] <rickspencer3> this escape thing is weirdness
[22:55] <seb128> good that I'm not the only one to get this one ;-)
[22:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, is simple-scan supposed to have only photo and text document type?
[22:55] <seb128> or is the list based on the device capabilities?
[22:56] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, at least as a default.  The idea is they should only be the cases that users want.
[22:56] <robert_ancell> seb128, regarding the lack of draft - it may make sense for the photo scan to do a preview scan then the final scan over the top so you can cancel it if it looks bad
[22:57] <seb128> right
[22:57] <seb128> my scanner is really slow
[22:57] <seb128> it takes some 3 minutes to scan in photo
[22:57] <seb128> I want a preview and a select area option ;-)
[22:58] <rickspencer3> oh fuge
[22:58] <rickspencer3> escape deletes the dialog
[22:59] <Amaranth> wow my X is trashed
[22:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, there is a select area option - "crop"
[23:00] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh you mean select scan area.  Don't plan on implementing that - my guess is most standard scanners are fast enough and that's a little confusing for users
[23:00] <seb128> right
[23:01] <seb128> I think it's a mistake
[23:01] <seb128> I don't think being able to select an area confuse anybody
[23:01] <seb128> those not knowing about it will not do it
[23:01] <rickspencer3> users can always use the other scanning tools available if simple scan doesn't work for them
[23:01] <robert_ancell> yeah, and those who do know about it will use a more advanced scan program :)
[23:02] <seb128> it's nothing in the ui out of being able to do a rectangle on the image
[23:02] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:02] <seb128> hum
[23:02] <seb128> I consider myself as a very basic user
[23:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, the UI can quickly become overloaded.
[23:02] <seb128> I just want to scan my expense notes
[23:02] <seb128> and I don't want to scan a full a4 for a small piece or paper in the corner
[23:02] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so I want my dialog base class to capture return a cancel event and NOT delete itself when the user hits escape
[23:02] <seb128> "of paper"
[23:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, well I am doing the same thing, I bought the cheapest scanner I could find ($60) and it scans fast enough on both modes
[23:02] <rickspencer3> is there an easy pattern for that?
[23:03]  * rickspencer3 tries to change the subject for robert_ancell ;)
[23:03] <seb128> lol
[23:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, mine takes 3 minutes to scan a page
[23:03] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, catch the delete-event signal?
[23:03] <seb128> preview in xsane takes some 8 seconds
[23:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, how old is it?
[23:03] <seb128> dunno, 8 years?
[23:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, I rest my case...
[23:03] <seb128> works for what I have to do with it ;-)
[23:04] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, do I suppress the event from bubbling up in some way, or is it too late by the time I've caught the signal?
[23:04] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, you can return TRUE to stop the event propogating
[23:04] <rickspencer3> so I can return True and then rip a cancel response and all is well?
[23:04]  * rickspencer3 tries
[23:05] <robert_ancell> yes
[23:05] <seb128> damn you modern software writers pushing user to replace their hardware every 3 years... ;-)
[23:06] <seb128> me doesn't get what "continuous scan" does
[23:06] <seb128> it seems to keep scanning the page
[23:06] <seb128> does that do something special on some devices?
[23:06] <Amaranth> seb128: some scanners have a feeder
[23:06] <seb128> or is there a sleep between pages where I'm supposed to manually change pages?
[23:06] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, the problem is I can't tell from SANE if the selected source is a feeder or not
[23:06] <Amaranth> so after scanning a page they automatically slide another page in
[23:07] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, uh, I guess I need to response first
[23:07] <rickspencer3> will I get the chance to return after that, or will my dialog go away?
[23:07] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, is this based on a GtkDialog?
[23:07] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yes
[23:07] <robert_ancell> ok, for a GtkDialog you need to handle the response signal
[23:07] <robert_ancell> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkDialog.html#GtkDialog-response
[23:07] <rickspencer3> my other option is to handle the delete event in each case, but that seems like a lot of unnecssary book keeping, since I have a base class for the dialogs anyway
[23:08] <Amaranth> arg, I can't use my mouse _at all_
[23:08] <Amaranth> I might as well patch xorg.conf to disable it so I'm not tempted to try
[23:08] <seb128> Amaranth, why not?
[23:08] <Amaranth> seb128: It keeps jumping to the center of the screen
[23:08] <seb128> unplug it ;-)
[23:08] <Amaranth> if I unplug my USB mouse X crashes
[23:08] <seb128> urg
[23:08] <Amaranth> and I still have the touchpad...
[23:09] <Amaranth> hmm, maybe it only crashed once...
[23:09]  * Amaranth tries it again
[23:11] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/338344/ - you have to block the delete event for some reason
[23:11] <rickspencer3> ah
[23:11] <rickspencer3> it's delete-event, not close
[23:11] <rickspencer3> d'oh
[23:12] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[23:12] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, I have no idea why GtkWindow doesn't convert delete-event into close and GtkDialog doesn't convert delete-event/close into response
[23:12] <robert_ancell> that would seem more logical to me
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - having fun debugging screensaver issues? ;)
[23:14] <rickspencer3> that cancelled the event, but the window was deleted none-the-less
[23:14] <rickspencer3> thanks gtk
[23:14] <rickspencer3> d'oh, nm
[23:14] <rickspencer3> heh, fixed it
[23:14] <rickspencer3> thanks robert_ancell
[23:15] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right ... which is exactly what my code just did
[23:16]  * rickspencer3 ponders adding this to the ubuntu-project template in Quickly
[23:16] <seb128> ** (simple-scan:25416): WARNING **: Unable to get open device: Invalid argument
[23:16] <seb128> hum
[23:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, what caused it?  Note that SANE seems to be a little buggy at times and can lock you out of scanners
[23:17] <seb128> I'm trying another device
[23:17] <seb128> which doesn't work apparently
[23:17] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, trying the webcam?
[23:17] <seb128> it's listed but does that when I click scan
[23:17] <seb128> no, it's an epson scan
[23:17] <seb128> not very new either it's the old one from my parents
[23:17] <robert_ancell> oh, interesting.  Does it work in xsane?
[23:17] <seb128> $ xsane
[23:17] <seb128> WARNING: Unhandled message: interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable, path=/, member=Introspect
[23:17] <seb128> [snapscan] Cannot open firmware file /usr/share/sane/snapscan/your-firmwarefile.bin.
[23:17] <seb128> [snapscan] Edit the firmware file entry in snapscan.conf.
[23:17] <seb128>  
[23:17] <seb128> no
[23:18] <seb128> xsane displays an invalid argument error dialog too
[23:24] <Amaranth> yeah, I haven't had ubuntu break this badly since hardy :/
[23:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, bug #28687
[23:27] <seb128> sucking epson
[23:30] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: no :)
[23:30] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: I wouldn't exactly call it "fun" :)
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - are you normally this active on screensaver issues? i added gnome-screensaver to the list of packages i watch a few days ago, and i notice you seem to track screensaver issues quite a lot ;)
[23:34] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: no, it's just screen-locking bugs always get tagged as security issues. There seem to be a lot of different reasons why screens don't lock, so I want to create a "debugging screen-locking problems" wiki page.
[23:35] <mdeslaur> but to do that, I need to figure out how it all works, so I've been looking at the screensaver bugs
[23:35] <mdeslaur> and found a few issues
[23:36] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - yeah, there are multiple causes for the screen not locking in gnome
[23:36] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: now, I'm kind of stumped on #494114
[23:37] <Amaranth> bug 494114
[23:37]  * Amaranth is lazy
[23:39] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - yeah, that's a weird one. i've not had a chance to have a proper look at it yet though
[23:43]  * Amaranth waits for someone to reassign to compiz and cries
[23:45] <Sarvatt> Amaranth: Pretty sure you're hitting this, if so you might want to try the xorg-edgers PPA to see if the patch fixes it for you https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25339
[23:45] <Amaranth> Sarvatt: looks similar to my backtrace
[23:46] <Sarvatt> yeah quite a few people are hitting that so I added it to edgers, fixed it for every one of them so far
[23:46] <Amaranth> alright, time to reboot back to Ubuntu then so I can try it
[23:57] <Amaranth> Sarvatt: Well, I guess that's an improvement...
[23:57] <Amaranth> Sarvatt: it completely locks X instead of crashing :P
[23:57]  * Amaranth is back in OS X again
[23:57] <Amaranth> I don't even care about that though, I just want the cursor to stop jumping to the center so I can use it
[23:57] <Amaranth> I unplug the mouse maybe twice a week