=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === asac_ is now known as asac === ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje === ogra_ is now known as ogra === fader|away is now known as fader_ [13:54] gday [13:55] yo [13:57] morning [14:00] \o [14:00] o/ [14:00] here [14:01] zul, soren: ? [14:01] hello [14:01] \o [14:01] Lots of absence today, let's get started [14:02] must be the snow [14:02] #startmeeting [14:02] Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is ttx. [14:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:02] Welcome to the server team meeting ! [14:02] Agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [14:02] [TOPIC] Scribe assignment [14:02] New Topic: Scribe assignment [14:03] This is about who should write the meeting minutes. [14:03] Our new beloved leader wants to: [14:03] * Share the burden [14:03] * Shared responsibility [14:03] * Visibility in the community [14:04] o/ [14:04] so we'll rotate every week between the server team engineers so that everyone gets a chance [14:04] \o [14:04] alphabetically [14:04] I'll start this week [14:04] umm...alphabetically by irc nick right? [14:04] * soren is here now [14:05] zul: yes [14:05] "gets a chance" = "gets lumbered" [14:05] ttx: sweet ;) [14:06] Daviey: right :) [14:06] So next week is ... zul [14:06] *sigh* [14:06] For refernce, the process is explained at: [14:06] * smoser plans on playing irc name musical chairs around hist turn [14:06] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team%20policy [14:06] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team%20policy [14:07] zul: you'll need to get access to the ubuntuserver blog, mathiaz can help [14:07] k [14:07] yeepee, let's move on. [14:07] (note: our beloved leader is not part of the rotation) [14:08] [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting [14:08] New Topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting [14:08] Only one action recorded: [14:08] ACTION: jos to find out the best time for the meeting [14:08] jos says: "Server meeting time to stay the same for at least the next month or two" [14:09] yay [14:09] [TOPIC] Check blueprint status and progress for the week [14:09] New Topic: Check blueprint status and progress for the week [14:09] If you're not bright green on the specs you're working on, please shout [14:09] http://piware.de/workitems/server/lucid-alpha2/report.html shows that we are somehow on track [14:09] LINK received: http://piware.de/workitems/server/lucid-alpha2/report.html shows that we are somehow on track [14:09] * Daviey checks specs [14:10] landscape-refresh havent started yet [14:10] though moving 40 items from server to QA helped, obviously [14:11] ttx: My mail integration spec still needs approval [14:11] * ScottK understands the desire for more use cases, but would like to get it marked approved. [14:11] ScottK: hah. I remember reviewing it, so it must wait on Jos now -- checking [14:11] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-more-mail-integration [14:12] ok, actioning Jos on this one [14:12] [ACTION] jos to review/approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-more-mail-integration [14:12] ACTION received: jos to review/approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-more-mail-integration [14:12] everything else is non-blocked ? [14:13] sounds great. [14:13] [TOPIC] Alpha1 ISO testing [14:13] New Topic: Alpha1 ISO testing [14:13] Fresh out of the oven, the alpha1 ISOs are waiting for you [14:14] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all [14:14] LINK received: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all [14:14] smoser: do we have blessed cloud images as well ? [14:14] there are lucid builds published [14:14] i will grab the ids' and get them onto iso tracker [14:15] I'll be working on setting up automated tests of those over the next day or so. [14:15] http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/lucid/current/ [14:15] LINK received: http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/lucid/current/ [14:15] "those" == the iso tests [14:15] [ACTION] smoser to push cloud dailies to ISO tracker asap [14:15] ACTION received: smoser to push cloud dailies to ISO tracker asap [14:16] I've already given the images a spin, they are reasonably usable [14:16] any question aboutthe ISo testing process ? [14:17] ... [14:17] alright then [14:17] [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs [14:17] New Topic: Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs [14:17] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html [14:17] LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html [14:18] Still a lot of bugs assigned to zul and kirkland, more than you should be actively working on [14:18] ttx: yeah ill have to go through that list [14:19] the ntp one is actually one I opened [14:19] ok. Nothing assigned to the team that needs assignment. [14:19] Any flags needing to be raised ? [14:20] On bug 460085, I'm still waiting for the Eucalyptus team to comment on the rampart memleak proposed patch [14:20] Launchpad bug 460085 in eucalyptus "memory leak; rampart_context not freed (memory leaked per connection)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460085 [14:20] moving on... [14:20] * ttx feels very lonely :) [14:20] [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team [14:20] New Topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team [14:21] KSM has been turned on so you should see it in post A1 kernels [14:21] A new weekly topic, with our kernel team guest star [14:21] jjohansen: Woo! [14:21] jjohansen: Awesome. [14:21] jjohansen: it needs some userspace support, a little mouse told me [14:21] jjohansen: as in, new qemu-kvm [14:22] yes, [14:22] jjohansen: ok. kirkland is waiting for qemu-kvm 0.12 release, which should happen soon[tm] [14:22] user space has to use the madise system call to mark pages for sharing [14:22] There's an RC of qemu-kvm 0.12 out, IIRC. [14:23] I still have to go through and update the EC2 configs to be more like virtual [14:23] any config requests? [14:23] Yes. [14:23] smoser: You wanted to try to avoid having a ramdisk at all, right? [14:24] yes... well, some people do [14:24] :) [14:24] yeah we will look at that [14:24] on e2 we have ramdisk-less images for lucid. they work. [14:24] I've heard requests from other places for a statically compiled compiled (no modules, everything built in). [14:24] we also want to evaluate Hz [14:25] Err... statically compiled kernel, I mean, of course. [14:25] i think that -virtual kernel should support all/all-reasonable disk drivers for root devices as built in [14:25] right, I think reasonable is the key here [14:25] i realize that -virutal is only a subset of -server so that might cause some grief. [14:26] virtual is the subset of server that does not deal with specific physical hardware. [14:26] i suppose opening a bug is the appropriate action. i'll get one opened today. [14:26] soren, right, but it is a subset for modules. for the vmlinuz, its the same. [14:26] smoser: when you do subscribe me to it [14:26] right. [14:26] so asking for additional stuff built in makes it bigger/affects othre things. [14:26] jjohansen, i'll do one better, and assign it to you :) [14:27] :) [14:27] Thanks John, and please come back next week for more work^H^H^H^Hfun with us ! [14:27] that is the plan [14:27] anything else for our kernel friends ? [14:28] ok, let's move to... [14:28] [TOPIC] Development sponsorship [14:28] New Topic: Development sponsorship [14:29] So every server engineer with sponsorship capabilities should spend one hour a week sponsoring stuff [14:29] the easiest way to track that is to do it every week at a fixed time [14:29] and it's easy to combine it with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews [14:29] so far, we can see soren and me on that table [14:30] * dholbach hugs all sponsors :) [14:30] zul, kirkland, mathiaz: you should set an hour when you do code reviews and sponsoring stuff [14:30] our beloved leader says: "Server engineers to sign up" [14:31] i do sponsorship and uploads for people but I dont have a set time [14:31] make a daniel happy, sign up :) [14:31] Daniel is already too happy. [14:31] :-) [14:31] zul: would it make sense for you to try to set a time ? that way you can do codereviews as well [14:31] Daviey: WHAT? [14:31] :) [14:32] Daviey: he can smile even more. [14:32] ttx: sure [14:32] \o/ [14:32] ttx: Is this sponsor + review? [14:32] Daviey: well, I use the same hour to do both. [14:33] (though I admittedly overflow) [14:33] smoser: you're exempted from this one, you need to acquire uploading powers first [14:33] would this apply to only server related packages or anything since the list on dholbach's list is sparse for server related packages [14:34] zul: no. We should sponsor anything [14:34] ttx: gotcha [14:34] ttx, yes. i do need to acquire such deity-powers [14:34] hmm.. ttx surely you don't need upload powers to review? :) [14:34] * zul suggests smoser should become a motu in his copious spare time === thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak [14:34] Daviey: smoser hates you now [14:35] hah [14:35] next up is... [14:35] [TOPIC] Developer communication [14:35] New Topic: Developer communication [14:35] its too bad, cause i actually enjoyed meeting daviey face to face but now i have to hate him :) [14:35] dholbach (again) updated the communication rules at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperCommunication [14:36] Please check them up [14:36] Communication is something easy to get wrong [14:37] dholbach: comments ? [14:37] I didn't see anything controversial in there [14:37] ttx: the recent revisions of that page were a result from comments from our team mates [14:37] so I tried to clarify what I could [14:37] if you have more advice, feel free to add it [14:38] that's all :) [14:38] rock on ! [14:38] [TOPIC] Soren's QA project for Alpha2 [14:38] New Topic: Soren's QA project for Alpha2 [14:38] Yay. [14:38] soren is exploring uncharted waters for us [14:39] could you introduce that ? [14:39] So, until Alpha-2, I'm on the QA team, rather than the server team. [14:39] I'm working on automating a lot of the testing we are (or rather should be) doing for servers. [14:39] soren: good, you are exampted from the scribe rotation until then. [14:39] Whee! [14:39] So far, I've enabled a few test suites in package builds. [14:40] More of that to come. [14:40] (if my calculation is exact, you shouldn't miss your turn :) [14:40] Also, I've set up kvm-autotest to do scripted, interactive testing. [14:40] soren: we still hope to get a server-oriented man in the QA team, he should followup on that work. [14:40] Right now, I have a server install running on one of my servers. It waits for the screen to look a particular way, and then pretends to press keys and such to proceed with the installation. [14:41] Right. [14:41] ttx: Back on communication, I've not seen any announcement about the new Canonical server team lead. Perhaps I missed it. [14:41] I've defined my work so that I'll be setting up the frameworks. [14:41] it was done last week at the meeting [14:41] KVM-autotest, PPA builds of server packages (to check that they keep building and their test suites keep passing), etc., etc. [14:41] zul: according to the doc he should have done the introduction on MLs [14:41] ...and then the new Server QA person can fill in the blanks (create "step files" for kvm-autotest, etc) [14:42] ScottK: I pointed that to him already. [14:42] Aww, give him a break - he's new :) [14:43] Shameless plug: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_USQAE/ [14:43] for anyone interested ion following on soren's steps [14:43] Any question for soren ? [14:44] [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review [14:44] New Topic: Weekly SRU review [14:44] zul: ^ [14:44] sue [14:44] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html [14:44] LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html [14:44] anyone nominate an SRU from that list? [14:45] The eucalyptus things are not SRU-worthy [14:45] we already went through those [14:45] ok then [14:45] anyone else? [14:45] bug 461156 is already nominated and i the queue to karmic-proposed [14:46] Launchpad bug 461156 in eucalyptus "User data is not parsed correctly by Eucalyptus in some cases" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461156 [14:46] waiting for SRU team processing [14:46] there is nothing on the list of nominated bugs for hardy, dapper, intrepid,lucid and karmic [14:46] right. [14:47] so next [14:47] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html [14:47] LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html [14:47] the php and krb ones nominated last week i still have to get to [14:48] is anyone else to test the racoon crashes on that list? [14:48] anyone? [14:49] ... [14:49] ok then moving on [14:49] and there is nothing in the active code reviews either [14:49] ok, thanks zul [14:49] [TOPIC] Open Discussion [14:49] New Topic: Open Discussion [14:50] anyone / anything ? [14:50] * ScottK wonders if the server team will be rewriting all their Python stuff in Perl now? [14:51] ScottK: heh [14:51] Can i remind everyone that submitting some server tips is helpful, rewarding and stops the kittens getting hurt. [14:51] ScottK: I don't intend to. [14:51] :D [14:51] we are slowing converting jos to pyhton [14:51] Excellent news. [14:52] So everyone submit some tips pls :).. There will be metrics and a burn up chart. :) [14:52] Can I ask some attention for a annoying mysql bug here? [14:52] * erichammond starts his 17th year with Perl soon. [14:52] Jeeves_: ask in #ubuntu-server please [14:52] erichammond: ++ [14:52] * ttx started his 16th year with Perl a few weeks ago [14:53] though I admit having left it out those last years [14:53] * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips * --- New version should hit lucid this week, so get them in :) [14:53] * alexm will make 10 on march [14:53] wow. [14:54] highvoltage: 10y with perl, not that i'm 10 :P [14:54] * erichammond can't subtract. starting 18th year soon. [14:54] erichammond: substraction is the first skill you lose with age :P [14:55] must be a perl bug [14:55] heh. [14:55] * Daviey divides the topic by 0 [14:55] zul: there are no bugs in perl, just features nobody understands [14:55] lol [14:55] [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time [14:55] New Topic: Agree on next meeting date and time [14:55] next week, same place, same time [14:56] ? [14:56] sounds good. [14:56] Alright, thanks everyone [14:56] #endmeeting [14:56] Meeting finished at 08:56. [14:56] alexm: yep I grokked :) [14:56] :) === mac_v_ is now known as mac_v === barry_ is now known as barry [15:57] * robbiew_ waves [15:57] hiya === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew [15:58] * robbiew forgot to change his nick an hour and a half ago :/ [15:59] * robbiew also renames the Meeting wiki page to the RIGHT date :/ [15:59] geez [16:00] #startmeeting [16:00] Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew. [16:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:00] * lool o/ [16:00] [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/1209 [16:00] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/1209 [16:00] hey lool...ev [16:00] hiya [16:01] slangasek: mvo: james_w Keybuk: cjwatson: around? [16:01] * barry [16:01] * slangasek waves [16:02] robbiew: no, not here ;) [16:02] heh [16:02] hello [16:02] [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting [16:02] New Topic: Outstanding actions from last meeting [16:02] hey [16:02] Colin to see if -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb fixes qt4-x11 problems on armel, and if not punt to mobile team / #ubuntu-arm [16:03] cjwatson appears to have perhaps actually fixed it. [16:03] (action is definitely done) [16:03] ;) [16:03] yeah, I got a full build on jocote [16:03] thanks ScottK...and hello :) [16:03] Hello [16:03] fixed by using the armv6 asm already in the qt4-x11 tree [16:04] * Keybuk resists any comments about -funroll-loops [16:04] hi [16:04] -Larry -Wall [16:04] heh [16:04] (was always my favourite set of compiler options) [16:05] [TOPIC] Alpha 1 Features [16:05] New Topic: Alpha 1 Features [16:05] only see two [16:05] hi [16:05] boot-experience work [16:05] which is plymouth going into the archive [16:05] and that's done [16:05] robbiew: that's retroactively changing the definition [16:05] that's cheating ;) [16:05] cjwatson: the work arounds shouldn't be needed anymore, -mimplicit-it=thumb is now passed by default [16:05] it's good to be the king ;) [16:05] let's be honest and say that we got most of the way there, but didn't actually get it on the CD :) [16:05] plymouth's only in universe too ... [16:06] true [16:06] doko__: we didn't need implicit-it in the end [16:06] (because Keybuk's eyes exploded last week) [16:06] and removes ubuntu-desktop if installed [16:06] doko__: that was a red herring [16:06] Is that the meeting about the new alpha? [16:06] your majesty, may I still call you robbiew ;p [16:06] heh [16:06] Shezif: this is the foundations team meeting [16:06] cjwatson, OK thanks [16:07] Shezif: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/1209 [16:07] Keybuk: as I understand it though..it will be pushed post alpha1 freeze...right? ;) [16:07] so updates will pull it in [16:07] robbiew: yes [16:08] great [16:08] * robbiew nees his story straight, in case certain people ask ;) [16:09] cjwatson: ubiquity-auto-upgrade is done....I assume [16:09] * robbiew didn't know about it...or forgot about it [16:09] * Keybuk wonders whether he can legitimately claim to have tested the CD image for automatic partitioning [16:10] lol [16:10] robbiew: yes, if you boot a current desktop install you'll see an "Update this installer" button [16:11] Mark asked for that around the karmic release, so I decided to dust off the work that had already been done :) [16:16] mvo: probably call between mpt, mvo, sinzui at the least. i'm happy to sit in too [16:16] mvo: +1 [16:16] +100 :) [16:16] ok, I will arrange something [16:16] * mvo assumes he can use robbiew conf code? [16:16] mvo: thanks [16:16] mvo: hmm [16:16] depends when the call is ;) [16:16] you can use mine, if robbiew's is busy [16:16] thanks [16:16] /msg me for the pin [16:16] mvo: with my new duties...that's probably better [16:16] ;) [16:16] right [16:16] mvo: thanks [16:17] ev: what's going on with the spec for foundations-lucid-installer-design-improvements [16:17] I see some TODOs..and some notes at the bottom of the spec [16:18] robbiew: I talked to Ivanka and Michael about that this morning. I need to send Michael an email about creating that mock up. [16:18] okay...well she's the approver now [16:18] so I'm fine with that :) [16:18] cool [16:19] the last one, foundations-lucid-dropping-sun-java6, will be approved today [16:19] doko__ has agreed to maintain it in partner :) [16:20] [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue [16:20] New Topic: Sponsorship Queue [16:20] * mvo hides from this item [16:20] * doko__ hides behind mvo [16:20] lol [16:20] * ev burrows underneath the both of them [16:20] haha [16:21] * slangasek flaunts his single sponsored package from last week [16:21] * cjwatson looks at the overview - I think we all have to hide [16:21] heh. dholbach needs everyone to step up here [16:21] * dholbach hugs all sponsors [16:21] I think I need to switch my usual day to something that isn't Tuesday; I run into milestone freezes too often [16:22] * mvo merged some branches but is not sure that counts [16:22] merging contributed branches *ought* to count [16:22] definitely [16:22] for just one hour a week...you too can help a poor, defenseless developer contribute to Ubuntu :**( [16:22] yes, that'd be nice - I agree [16:23] I really don't think that's much to ask...even for Keybuk (ahem) [16:24] was the issue that slangasek raised about having to sit in a channel ever resolved? [16:24] dholbach: ^^ [16:24] do they actually have to sit in the ubuntu-reviewers channel during that hour also? [16:25] as I can see how that would distract from the actual reviewing :/ [16:25] I like sitting on a channel a lot, because 1) people can learn from your review and you can have discussion [16:25] 2) people are going to ask you to review something that was overlooked for a longer while (because everybody picks what they like best) [16:25] there's probably more reasons :) [16:25] but very often, there's not too much activity [16:26] in the channel [16:26] and again...it's only 1 hour a week! [16:26] mm, the few times I've been there, it was much less interesting than the #ubuntu-classroom session we did [16:26] right :) [16:26] but then again that meant it was very little work [16:26] cjwatson: we should announce the channel some more, that'd probably help [16:27] robbiew: it's never only an hour a week [16:27] and I envy a developer who has a free hour every week [16:27] I'm saying that's all you are REQUIRED to do [16:27] robbiew: but I thought the 1 hour a week was supposed to be spent on sponsorship, which I don't think is the same thing as reviewing changes on the IRC channel...? [16:27] "announce the channel some more" - so that'll be even less of the time spent on actual sponsorship [16:28] * cjwatson doesn't really see the essential difference between sponsorship and review [16:28] only that the one hour a week we've committed to is split between the two :) [16:28] if nobody asks you anything in the channel, you can just review a couple of bugs/patches and you're done [16:29] btw, on launchpad, every developer spends a full day doing nothing but reviews of other people's branches. it's the only way we'd ever get anything landed. at first it seemed excessive but it /greatly/ increased overall team velocity (measured by #of branches landed, #of bugs closed per cycle) [16:29] slangasek: to me, sponsorship *is* review (well, coupled with upload, but that's trivial) [16:30] the point of requiring all developers on staff to spend an hour a week on it wasn't just to mechanically reduce the size of the sponsorship queue, it was to make sure everyone did some review work [16:31] I'm sure all the new contributors really appreciate your good work on this! [16:31] an hour a week, over a release cycle, basically turns out as a week of that release cycle [16:31] three hours a week on meetings, takes another three weeks of the release cycle away [16:31] I guess my fear is that the things people will ask for review of in the channel aren't the same things that have been nominated as ready for sponsorship; review work is important and good, but are we going to put the sponsorship queue in worse shape as a result of this shift in focus [16:31] we lose every fourth week to freezes and CD testing [16:32] it takes me two hours a day (10 hours a week) to go through my bugs folder [16:32] Keybuk: I personally think the hour is totally worth it, because it's the only way we get new contributors and new ubuntu developers that can help out themselves [16:32] exactly [16:32] (that's another 6-7 weeks of the release cycle) [16:32] I really don't understand why it's a topic of discussion. It's important that we get more people on board. :) [16:33] dholbach: in which case, I'd like to point out that I already spend an hour a week on giving people upload access directly [16:33] it's a prisoner's dilemma [16:33] we all collectively benefit from *other people* doing review and helping out new contributors [16:34] Keybuk: talk to me about it [16:34] this only works if a good number of people don't defect, though :) [16:34] right [16:35] and the argument that "I could use that time for better things" doesn't work....I could skip all my 1-to-1 meetings and use it for "better things", but they are important part of being a manager [16:35] personally, I find review easier than doing new feature work, and therefore I use time that I would otherwise be spending being relatively unproductive while my brain gets into gear [16:35] where was that study that said that the average engineer only actually managed a couple of hours of productive work a day? [16:36] I don't think anyone's suggesting taking away from the hyper-productive time in your best hours [16:36] but, I dunno, if you don't have some slack elsewhere then you're a lot more efficient and consistently productive than I am [16:37] okay..moving on [16:37] thanks robbiew [16:37] * robbiew skips business from activity reports...cause he's only seen 2 [16:37] ahem [16:37] [TOPIC] AOB [16:37] New Topic: AOB [16:38] 2010 conference attendance [16:38] make sure to get that info back to randa [16:38] I'm assuming she will create the standard wiki page listing all the conferences and attendees [16:39] then we can add/remove if anything changes along the way [16:39] was there any particular limit on the number of conferences? [16:39] upper or lower? [16:40] One conference per two hours of sponsoring [16:40] lol [16:40] :-P [16:40] heh [16:40] robbiew: gcc4.4 is now default in Debian Unstable, so you can probably mark that off on the Debian coordination spec. [16:40] ScottK: sweet! thanks for the update [16:40] activity *cough* [16:40] ? [16:40] Keybuk: I don't think there is an upper [16:41] I'd say 2 a year should be the lower limit [16:41] * lool notes he will be afk tonight until Friday -- will be helping with booth at ARM Symposium event, need to be in Paris tonight [16:42] [TOPIC] Meeting structure changes [16:42] New Topic: Meeting structure changes [16:43] with me covering for mdz...I cannot chair anymore [16:43] I was wondering if we should share the load on this [16:43] similar to other teams [16:44] fine by me [16:45] the question is how often should it rotate? [16:45] why not rotate the chair weekly? [16:45] that's fine by mee [16:45] and me [16:46] makes sense [16:46] works for me [16:46] * robbiew will let hughhalf know [16:47] the 2nd thing is whether or not we should add a lightning round [16:47] where everyone is expected to "talk" for about 3min [16:47] on what they are doing and where they need help [16:48] hm, isn't that covered by activity reports? [16:48] I mean, when people write them ;) [16:48] * mvo forgot his one this week [16:48] exactly [16:48] and when the manager pulls them together and sends them out :/ [16:48] +1. it would be interesting an informative, and ime there's very often been someone with a relevant topic i'd never considered. [16:49] I like lightning rounds because they ensure I can't sleep through the meeting. Main problem with activity reports is that, well, I must say I read them with a pretty severe delay when they're in mail. Maybe that's just me [16:49] (and I do get them in my inbox by means of wiki subscription, but it's somehow rather less engaging) [16:49] btw, it's assumed that the chair will also send out the team summary ;) [16:50] I like having them in the agenda wiki page, I can glance at them while the meeting is starting [16:50] robbiew: it doesn't even have to be 3 minutes. a 2 sentence paste can be really useful! [16:50] yeah [16:50] good point [16:50] for what it's worth, I like the idea [16:50] and much faster ;) [16:51] ev: it's worth a lot! [16:51] 3 minutes * team is half the meeting, so yes, shorter would be better [16:51] [16:51] we can throw everything into the channel in parallel [16:51] we actually used to do this in distro team meetings but then the team got too big and it became really unwieldy [16:51] full circle ... [16:51] not sure if I like parallel [16:51] cjwatson: same in launchpad. we do 15m sub-team standup phone calls now [16:52] (where subteam <= 5 people) [16:52] * robbiew will update the MeetingTemplate to include the 2 sentence paste lighting round [16:53] [TOPIC] Good News [16:53] New Topic: Good News [16:53] how sad....none to speak of [16:53] lol [16:54] * robbiew doesn't have to run this meeting for 6months! whoohoo [16:54] :P [16:54] heh :) [16:54] my first actual proper scheduled spec will be completed right after a1 [16:54] cjwatson teaching qt4-x11 to build on armv6 is definetly good news. [16:54] (foundations-lucid-uec-installer-enhancement) [16:54] we're slightly ahead of the line on http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html, let's keep it that way [16:55] oh, speaking of which, if any of the 'nobody' items there interest you, please grab them [16:55] Boot Performance GOOD NEWS [16:55] we'll need to farm them all out eventually [16:55] X hit its budget today [16:55] Keybuk: ooh [16:55] python2.6 may actually exist in Debian this month! [16:55] * mvo merged the apt netrc support stuff into the ubuntu branch [16:55] lol [16:55] Keybuk: \o/ [16:55] robbiew: On Python we do have the first round of Python Policy patches out for public comment. No great controversy so far. [16:55] yep...saw that [16:56] good news: as soon as the SRU is processed/done, server users can rely on loopback being up before hitting rc2 [16:56] cody is testing the extended layout branch for the GTK+ guys, so there may be hope of it landing for 2.20 after all [16:56] ScottK: link? [16:56] ev: ohhh, that is really good news [16:57] barry: http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2009/12/msg00009.html [16:57] ScottK: thanks [16:58] first step python2.6 in debian....next step world peace! [16:58] * barry should really get on debian-python [16:58] [16:58] barry: debian-devel is where all the "fun" is [16:58] heh [16:58] yes, so subscribe to debian-python instead [16:58] lmao [16:58] exactly! [16:58] ev: can you /msg me the relevant branch please? [16:58] :) [16:58] sure thing [16:59] #endmeeting [16:59] Meeting finished at 10:59. [16:59] thanks all!!! [16:59] thanks [16:59] * marjo waves [17:00] #startmeeting QA Team [17:00] Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo. [17:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:00] Agenda [17:00] * mvo waves [17:00] hi [17:00] * fagan waves [17:00] # Welcome to Soren Hansen [17:00] # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) [17:00] # Bugday highlights -- pedro [17:00] # [17:00] Alpha 1 loco-contacts feedback on Testing/LoCos -- Grantbow [17:00] # Upgrade testing -- fagan [17:00] # Bleeding edge team -- fagan [17:00] # [17:00] Ubuntu QA Website -- schwuk [17:00] * fader_ waves [17:00] [TOPIC] Welcome to Soren Hansen [17:00] New Topic: Welcome to Soren Hansen [17:01] folks, please welcome Soren to the QA team! [17:01] soren: welcome! [17:01] welcome soren :-) [17:01] Welcome [17:01] soren: Howdy! [17:02] hello [17:02] he'll be working with us on automated server testing [17:02] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-lucid-automated-server-testing [17:04] [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) [17:04] New Topic: SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie) [17:04] SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2009-12-02): [17:04] * karmic: 14 new packages in -proposed (apport, compiz, eucalyptus, evolution-indicator, gdm, glib2.0, linux-firmware-nonfree, motion, python2.6, rhythmbox, ruby1.8, trac-git, ubiquity, xfburn) and 5 packages pushed to -updates (devicekit-disks, nautilus, seahorse-plugins, ubiquity, xf86-input-evtouch) [17:04] * jaunty, intrepid, hardy, dapper: no non-security update activity this week [17:04] o/ [17:04] Thanks to Philip Guyton, dm, Sam Chau, Jonathan Marsden, totty, Franck Al Yamine Cohendet, Bryan McLellan, Ethan Puzarne, Nico Isenbeck, Haggai Eran, Jan Mynarik, mickel-one, jpuxan, southworth69, defunctzombie, Saïvann Carignan, Daniel Harvey, Patrick, and Morten Frisch for testing proposed packages this week. [17:04] [17:05] (sorry about being late, I had a family situation I needed to attend to, but I'm here now) [17:05] We have an upcoming 8.04.4 point release coming up at the end of january, so assistance in clearing out some of the few hardy SRUs would be greatly appreciated. [17:05] any update that needs more attention? [17:05] soren: you only missed your welcome :) [17:06] sbeattie: I'll throw a bit of time at it for you [17:06] fagan: Yeah, saw the scrollback :) [17:06] davmor2: awesome, thanks! [17:06] m bug 444979 is standing in the queue for a few weeks [17:06] Launchpad bug 444979 in fuse "fuse-utils postinst fails if fuse-utils is a new install during a release upgrade" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444979 [17:08] yep, be nice toc lear that one out. [17:08] That's all I have on the SRU front. [17:08] thx sbeattie! [17:08] [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- pedro [17:08] New Topic: Bugday highlights -- pedro [17:09] Previous week we had a bug day based on Ubuntu Translations as suggested by qense on an email to the BugSquad ml [17:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091203 [17:10] thanks to dpm, micahg, qense, WeatherGod, nperry and to kamusin for organize it [17:10] * fagan volunteered to do the next one [17:11] Tomorrow we're running one based on Compiz as requested by the maintainer a few weeks ago [17:11] so if you're using compiz head to : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091210 [17:11] the amazing kamusin helped a lot to organize the bug day so big kudos to him [17:12] thx kamusin! [17:12] fagan yeah i know, i'll contact you so we can start working on it :-) [17:12] pedro_: cool [17:12] so any help will be more than welcome [17:13] and again if you have *any* ideas of which could be the next target please drop it into the wiki page [17:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning [17:13] pedro_: Ill add pitivi to the list because it needs some love [17:13] fagan, go for it :-) [17:13] that's all from here marjo [17:14] thx pedro_ [17:14] my pleasure [17:14] [TOPIC] Alpha 1 loco-contacts feedback on Testing/LoCos -- Grantbow [17:14] New Topic: Alpha 1 loco-contacts feedback on Testing/LoCos -- Grantbow [17:14] Greetings [17:14] How has the response been so far? [17:14] welcome Grant! [17:15] Grantbow, have you contacted any member from your loco? [17:16] I did forward the email to my loco mail list. [17:16] Several people sounded interested. [17:17] I've fetched the lucid-desktop-i386.iso with zsync ready to participate myself as well. [17:17] I'm hoping folks from the loco-contacts mail list step up and participate as well. [17:17] I had a meeting with Scott Ritchie yesterday talking about wiki page improvements. [17:18] What do you all think of the email and wiki page? [17:18] ;) [17:18] Grantbow: Awesome... getting the word out is a huge help :D [17:18] Grantbow, I think it gets to the point :) [17:18] Grantbow, what did Scott tell you in the meeting? [17:18] maybe we should announce something on the qa blog? [17:19] ara: he mentioned other types of testing including SRU that we can add as starting points of contributors. [17:20] Grantbow, nice :) [17:20] Grantbow: agreed. [17:20] he also provided me with some group history since he's been active with Testing for awhile now. [17:21] More than I have at least. [17:21] I guess that's all unless there are any further suggestions or questions. [17:21] Thanks Grantbow! [17:22] Thx Grantbow [17:22] [TOPIC] Upgrade testing -- fagan [17:22] New Topic: Upgrade testing -- fagan [17:22] I just wanted to ask a quick question [17:23] Should we be doing upgrade testing tomorrow [17:23] Is there any major issues that need to be tested yet? [17:24] My guess is that it's never too early to start upgrade testing and reporting bugs [17:24] fagan, I think that we can concentrate in getting good coverage on installations. If we have time, upgrade testing is always welcome [17:24] sounds like a good thing to test for an LTS [17:25] Cool so ill try an upgrade from hardy tomorrow and see if there are any major problems [17:25] fagan: the answer is yes [17:25] Cool [17:25] our aim is always obtaining as much coverage as possible in the tracker, and that includes upgrades [17:25] fagan: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-lts-upgrades covers some of the work items mvo will be fixing related to upgrades. [17:26] fagan: the most recent item that I saw marked as done was the 'ensure linux-restricted-modules-common is removed' item [17:26] fagan, if you encounter any issue, mvo is always happy to help [17:26] sbeattie: thanks for the link [17:26] are you, mvo? ;-) [17:26] mvo: any comments re: upgrade testing for Alpha1? [17:26] [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-lts-upgrades [17:26] LINK received: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-lts-upgrades [17:26] I believe mvo is away ATM [17:26] fader_ ack [17:27] Well ill give him a ping later and see what his views on it are [17:27] fagan: anything else on this? [17:27] nope [17:27] marjo: go ahead [17:27] [TOPIC] Bleeding edge team -- fagan [17:27] New Topic: Bleeding edge team -- fagan [17:27] I found a team on launchpad called the bleeding edge team [17:28] There isnt too much activity but I think it can be revived [17:28] Ill fish out a link [17:28] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bleedingedge [17:28] [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bleedingedge [17:28] LINK received: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bleedingedge [17:29] mmm, sounds good [17:29] It has a ppa so what I think we can do is maybe get people to add stuff they need testing but shouldnt be put into the archive yet [17:29] fagan, have you talked to the owner of the team? [17:30] fagan, to know the possible reasons for its low success? [17:30] nope not yet I wanted to see what the rest of you think [17:30] ara: lack of activity [17:30] fagan, I think the problem is that upstreams willing to do that, already have their own ppa [17:30] If we get word about I think it could be a useful outlet [17:31] hmmmm good point [17:31] fagan, it could be better to find out which upstreams have ubuntu ppas and document that in the wiki [17:31] fagan, i.e. mozilla has one for thunderbird & firefox: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa [17:31] Yep that sounds good [17:31] ara: +1 [17:32] we could document them under wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Upstream [17:32] That one is run by Ubuntu, not by upstream. [17:32] ScottK, mmm, OK, but that's daily mozilla code, isn't it? [17:33] ScottK, so bugs there, can be useful to upstream [17:33] It is, but I don't think upstream has anything to do with it directly. [17:33] I read "which upstreams have ..." as meaning upstream developers running a PPA. [17:34] yes, let rephrase that into: "upstream ppa run by upstream or ubuntu maintainers" [17:34] because, in the end, that's what the bleeding edge was about, wasn't it? [17:35] yep [17:35] Question: What about packages that don't have a ppa? Wouldn't the Bleeding Edge team be a good place to put those? [17:35] moustafa: you could just make a ppa for the user [17:35] it would be just as easy [17:36] moustafa: like this https://launchpad.net/~shanepatrickfagan/+archive/ppa [17:36] fagan: do we really want to do that? [17:37] seems to complicate matters, no? [17:37] hmmm [17:37] A little it maybe good to have a central location [17:38] fagan: I thought that's why the bleeding edge team was being proposed for "reanimation": To have a centralized location for upstream packages [17:38] Yep [17:38] I think that it is a bit complicated to maintain [17:39] I agree [17:39] ara: wouldn't there be a way to (and I hope this will make sense) redirect certain PPAs to the Bleeding Edge team? [17:39] moustafa, ? [17:40] so maybe the wiki would be a good idea and let the developers decide where to put the packages [17:40] to be honest I think the team dissipated due to the amount of daily-ppas [17:40] Basically: Members of the BE team who have their own PPAs could get their packages mirrored by the BE PPA, which would give a centralized location [17:40] Or maybe that's something Launchpad can't do [17:41] moustafa: I dont think launchpad can do that [17:41] In which point a wiki would be the easiest answer for now [17:41] moustafa, but, is having a central location a good thing? for me, i.e., having both firefox and thunderbird in the daily mozilla ppa is already too much, as I only want thunderbird. If, by error, I update all my system with that ppa enabled.... I have firefox daily ppa installed, which I don't want [17:42] and that's only two packages [17:42] ara: Good point [17:42] So how about just the wiki them [17:42] *then [17:42] fagan: may i suggest you investigate further and come back with a firm proposal to the team next week? [17:42] Wiki does sound like the sanest suggestion [17:42] marjo: Cool [17:43] based on discussions and ideas presented today? [17:43] Yep [17:43] thx for rediscovering that team; looks interesting [17:43] [TOPIC] Ubuntu QA Website -- schwuk [17:43] New Topic: Ubuntu QA Website -- schwuk [17:44] http://qa.ubuntu.com/ [17:44] LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/ [17:44] 2 items here [17:44] mailing list :) [17:44] 1) the QA website has been updated with a link to mailing list as discussed last week [17:45] 2) can people check the content/links on the site and ensure they are still relevant/valid [17:45] davmor2: ? [17:45] I probably have some new stuff for it next week-ish. [17:45] marjo: it's added [17:45] davmor2: ack [17:46] schwuk, can you please change the mago link to point to http://mago.ubuntu.com, please? [17:46] off topic are we getting rid of http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ ? [17:47] There is a LP project for the site for branches/bugs etc. http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-homepage [17:47] ara: will do [17:47] schwuk: looks good dude I will track the links [17:47] schwuk, also, Desktop Automation should point also to the mago site === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl [17:47] schwuk, thanks [17:49] Any more items on the agenda? [17:50] does wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam link to qa.ubuntu.com? [17:50] looks like it doesnt [17:50] nice catch Grantbow [17:51] +1 [17:52] So back to my previous question are we killing off hwdb.ubuntu.com because it doesnt contain any useful info? [17:53] fagan: I've sent a request to the IS team about this, let me pull up their answer [17:53] cr3: cool [17:54] fagan: there appears to be 20 new requests still being submitted to that page every day [17:54] schwuk: thx [17:54] interesting indicator [17:54] this is strange because the client for this has been deprecated since before hardy [17:54] but how can you get any info from there? [17:55] cr3: it kinda looks like spam at least the most recent few [17:55] fagan: good catch [17:55] ideally, it would be nice to provide a redirect for that url in case anyone happens to have it bookmarked [17:55] folks: time check - 4 minutes [17:55] what would you guys think of redirecting to http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification? [17:56] cr3: +1 [17:56] cr3: I like that. I was going to ask about the client degrading gracefully but if it's been deprecated that long... [17:56] ara: those changes you requested are live [17:56] Maybe a 10s redirect with an 'update your bookmarks' text? [17:56] cr3: hwdb != certification [17:56] schwuk, nice :) [17:56] fagan, cr3: can we continue topic to next meeting? [17:56] schwuk: +1 [17:56] marjo: sure, not urgent [17:57] schwuk, thanks! [17:57] folks, before we end, want to share Lucid QA Team chart with you [17:57] http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/report.html [17:57] LINK received: http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/report.html [17:58] status is looking good early in the release [17:58] It would be better pointed to a wiki page explaining the system tool and how to use it. [17:58] please update your work items as you finish them so that we get an accurate status on a daily basis [17:59] ok let's end on time [17:59] good meeting all [17:59] thx everyone for another productive and interesting meeting! [17:59] Thanks marjo! [17:59] o/ [17:59] thank you Marjo [17:59] #endmeeting [17:59] Meeting finished at 11:59. [18:00] Thanks all [18:01] thanks [18:01] schwuk: hey! === yofel_ is now known as yofel === fader_ is now known as fader|lunch === JayFo is now known as JFo [18:51] marjo: no further comments, upgrade testing for alpha1 is good but not super important at this point (sorry for the delay, I was at dinner) === fader|lunch is now known as fader_ === unimix is now known as unimix_ === unimix_ is now known as unimix === robbiew is now known as robbiew_ === Dolev is now known as Shezif === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew === fader_ is now known as fader|away