[00:02] <Riddell> hmm, plasma crashes for me in a chroot but a different crash
[00:03] <Riddell> amichair: are you compiling plasma?
[00:03] <amichair> nope, still poking around at the kde sources
[00:06] <Riddell> I'm a bit out of ideas on how to recreate it
[00:07] <amichair> Riddell: u mean u have a clean boot with no crash?
[00:08] <Riddell> no I don't have lucid installed
[00:08] <Riddell> and on karmic I'd need to compile qt 4.6 kdelibs 4.4 kdebase-runtime and kdebase-workspace
[00:08] <Riddell> to have a chance of recreating it
[00:10] <Riddell> and X doesn't seem to be working in lucid so I can't install it
[00:11] <Riddell> ulysses__: you don't have a working lucid install I take it?
[00:12] <amichair> Riddell: why not use virtualbox or some other vm? that's what I'm doing. takes 2 minutes to set up.
[00:14] <Riddell> is a thought, I've not had much luck with virtualbox in the past
[00:16] <amichair> what kind of problems?
[00:17] <amichair> it's worth a shot. it's an invaluable tool for testing...
[00:17] <Riddell> dunno let's try and see
[00:17] <Riddell> I only have 1GB of memory though, don't know if it's enough
[00:18] <amichair> what's the minimum for kubuntu?
[00:19] <amichair> I used to run kubuntu in vbox with 1GB on a pentium 4 under windows... even that worked well.
[00:23] <Riddell> 320MB
[00:23] <Riddell> hmm, doesn't work, just gets to the bios then turns the virtual machine off
[00:24] <amichair> did u mount the iso cd?
[00:24] <Riddell> I think so
[00:24] <Riddell> it has the name of the ISO under CD/DVD-ROM
[00:25] <amichair> btw what cpu do u have?
[00:25] <Riddell> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7250  @ 2.00GHz
[00:30] <amichair> u gave the vm 320MB?
[00:30] <amichair> everything else on defaults?
[00:31] <firephoto> is the iso.qa login the same as brainstorm? or is something just fubar?
[00:31] <Riddell> seems the ISO wasn't properly synced
[00:32] <Riddell> working better now after an rsync, I wonder how long this thing takes to boot
[00:32] <Riddell> firephoto: it's separate
[00:32] <firephoto> Riddell: thanks... sure do wish they'd get around to consolidating everything someday.
[00:33] <amichair> Riddell: in general, I've found vms to boot quite faster than real machines. this particular iso feels slower than ever...
[00:34] <Sput> mh. I have recently seen a blue screen that was really blue in Windows 7.
[00:35] <maco> was it your software's fault?
[00:35]  * maco ducks
[00:35] <Sput> no, I tried to boot win7
[00:35] <maco> haha
[00:35] <Sput> I have a talent for making windows installation fail by looking at them
[00:35] <Sput> +s
[00:36] <Sput> staring at a bluescreen is about all the first-hand experience I got with win7 so far
[00:36] <amichair> does a windows installation fail if there's no one there to look at it?
[00:36] <Riddell> amichair: well well, that did seem to work
[00:36] <Sput> in Vista I at least had to plug in my headphones to have it bluescreen
[00:37] <Riddell> so now all I have to do is remaster the CD image to include a plasma-desktop without that patch and try that.  easy.
[00:38] <amichair> Riddell: I'd highly recommend getting used to vboxes... u can make snapshots and go back to them for perfect recreation of bugs, test installations in foreign languages, mess around without fear for losing ur system... it's great!
[00:46] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Can you tutor a prospective Kubuntu bug triager, perhaps in #kubuntu-bugs?
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> Sure
[00:48] <ScottK> Waiting for him to join #kubuntu-bugs
[01:15] <Riddell> hmm, well, that didn't work
[01:16] <amichair> u tried removing patch 71? still crash?
[01:17] <Riddell> compiling kdebase-workspace with no patches, copying plasma-desktop into iso, rebuilding iso, booting in VM, still crash
[01:17] <amichair> as the debug messages suggest, this might be a configuration error
[01:17] <Riddell> configuration of what?
[01:17] <amichair> dunno, plasma?
[01:18] <Riddell> we tried removing our config file, that didn't help
[01:18] <amichair> fact is, adding even a single basic containment to appletsrc prevents the crash
[01:18] <amichair> maybe there's something missing
[01:19] <amichair> if we remove our config, is a default supposed to be created?
[01:21] <Riddell> yes, although that should happen anyway, the config file only sets a couple of trivial options
[01:22] <amichair> so maybe the bug is in detecting/creating the default?
[01:22] <Riddell> maybe
[01:23] <amichair> but I guess it's upstream, if it still occurs without any patches or our configs
[01:24] <Riddell> it would be nice to think so
[01:25] <Riddell> but we'd probably know about it if it was a general upstream issue
[01:25] <amichair> probably
[01:26] <claydoh> so what is "new" for the first Alpha?
[01:26]  * claydoh pens some release notes
[01:27] <Riddell> qt 4.6, kde sc 4.4
[01:27] <Riddell> but at this rate we're not going to have an alpha 1
[01:27] <claydoh> Riddell: okay
[01:29] <claydoh> Riddell:  is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo a good place for ideas for a "what's coming" sort of blurb
[01:30] <Riddell> claydoh: yes
[01:30] <claydoh> Riddell: cool, was gonna add some of that in there
[01:46] <amichair> Riddell: do we modify libplasma or other relevant kdelibs?
[01:49] <ScottK> amichair: Our kdelibs patch list is not short, IIRC
[01:50] <amichair> a messed up libplasma is another suspect
[01:51] <Riddell> kubuntu_68_remove_applet_confirmation.diff is the only thing in that area
[01:51] <Riddell> and I doubt that's it, it's code is for removing applets
[01:51] <amichair> :-/
[01:57] <Riddell> if I copy my plasma-desktop-appletsrc into the ISO and rebuild the ISO then it starts
[01:57] <Riddell> so maybe I should upload a kubuntu-default-setting with that for the sake of getting an alpha 1 out
[01:57] <Riddell> not very satisfying
[02:03] <firephoto> where's the base plasma config files like the plasma-desktop-appletrc? i don't see one in /usr/share/kde4/confg/
[02:03] <amichair> nope
[02:03] <Riddell> /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc
[02:05] <firephoto> ok. so just that one and the others are autogenerated that end up in ~/.kde ?
[02:05] <Riddell> they're made by plasma based on its settings
[02:07] <firephoto> ok, i can't get plama-desktop to stay up even with no configs here. (which isn't helpful info;)
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> that's because plasma dies before it can generate the first config file :(
[02:11] <amichair> more specifically, it dies in the middle of generating it
[02:12] <Riddell> hmm, ubiquity didn't start unless I ran it through kdesudo on the command line, then it froze after the first page
[02:13] <firephoto> with no k-d-s files. no ~/.kde/share/config/ and a kbuildsycoca4 -noincremental. plasma still dies.
[02:14] <amichair> notice that strangely, it creates the default applets, then does a singleshot timer for 1 second later which calls saveDefaultSetup, which crashes. doesn't that seem like an unstable hack?
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> tsimpson: kde rev 1060831, your bug got fixed :)
[02:19] <Riddell> uploading kubuntu-default-settings_10.04ubuntu1_source.changes
[02:19] <Riddell> then I need to sleep, I'll ask slangasek to build new CDs when that's in the archive
[02:19] <amichair> JontheEchidna: what do u see in popupapplet.cpp:702 ?
[02:20] <Riddell> amichair: but do keep looking for a real answer if can.  might be worth asking in #plasma
[02:20] <amichair> Riddell: it's 4:20am... dunno how much longer I can go :-)
[02:20] <Riddell> oh jings, go to bed man!
[02:20] <JontheEchidna>     const int width = qMin(sizeGroup.readEntry("DialogWidth", preferredWidth),
[02:20] <JontheEchidna>                            corona->screenGeometry(-1).width() - 50);
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> that's 7-1 and 702
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> *701
[02:21]  * Riddell snoozes
[02:28] <ScottK> Riddell: The buildd's are free, so I'd suggest upload it and then kick cron the rebuilds for 80 minutes from now.
[02:29] <ScottK> oops
[02:30] <amichair> well I'm off to catch some Zs
[02:31] <amichair> the crash seems to happen when saving default config - either one of our fixes to one of the applets is bad or takes too long (more than 1 second), or it's some upstream implementation detail bug. or I'm too tired to think :-P
[02:34] <amichair> JontheEchidna: one possible test would be to remove the default apps and see if it crashes, and if not, try to pinpoint which one causes it (binary search style)
[02:35] <amichair> g'nite!
[03:21] <jjesse_> do i need to redownload the kubuntu iso for qa testing? specifically for netbook?
[03:21] <ScottK> jjesse_: It's going to be rerolled.
[03:21] <jjesse_> ok cool, i will then plan on testing tomorrow?
[03:24] <ScottK> Unless you'll be up for a couple of hours.
[03:24] <jjesse_> nope that was last night
[03:25] <ScottK> OK.  Good night then.
[03:25] <jjesse_> got home from the airport at 5am this mroning
[03:27] <dtchen> that's what time I decided to go to bed and then realized it was time to go to work
[05:27] <nixternal> ooh, I have a desktop again in lucid \o
[05:27] <nixternal> \o/ rather
[06:39] <Darkwing-Netbook> ScottK: is it safe now?
[07:34] <kb9vqf> Anyone know why the Ubuntu forums are dead?
[07:37] <Darkwing-Netbook> Dead?
[07:39] <kb9vqf> Darkwing-Netbook: Dead with a database error
[07:39] <Darkwing-Netbook> hang on... I know most of the forum admins
[07:40] <Darkwing-Netbook> kb9vqf: reply I got... "It's down. It happens
[07:41] <kb9vqf> OK, thanks :)
[07:41] <kb9vqf> Google's almost dead at my location too
[07:41] <kb9vqf> really, really slow...any good DoS attacks going on right now? :P
[07:42] <Darkwing-Netbook> kb9vqf: have you checked the connection on your modem? :P:P
[08:29] <Quintasan|Szel> Hiho
[09:22] <ghostcube> morning
[10:11] <slangasek> hey folks; ScottK asked me to ping here when the new kubuntu alpha 1 candidate images were up
[10:11] <slangasek> so, ping :)
[10:12] <Tm_T> yay!
[10:13] <amichair> morning... was the plasma crash solved?
[10:18] <jussi01> slangasek: super, thank you!
[10:34] <Lure> slangasek: thanks, trying some in my virtualbox
[10:36]  * Lure noticed that amd64 is oversized, will try anyhow
[10:45] <ulysses__> hello
[10:57] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: It's about as safe as it gets.
[11:03] <ct529> how do you get involved in project timelord?
[11:07] <ulysses__> Translation, ISO testing
[11:08] <ct529> no, I mean how as in what is the procedure :D
[11:10] <Riddell> ct529: just doing useful things
[11:10] <Riddell> today we need ISO testers
[11:11] <ct529> Riddell: I imagine is a project is launched then there is project structure .... i do not know .... I have experience as programme manager on large international programmes and have been using kubuntu since inception, so I was wondering whether my experience was of any use ....
[11:11] <amichair> ct529: 'getting involved in project timelord' is brilliant marketiting for 'contributing to kubuntu' :-)
[11:12] <amichair> marketing
[11:12] <ulysses__> okay, let's repeat the OEM install test with the rebuilt ISO
[11:12] <ct529> amichair: oh ....
[11:13] <ct529> amichair: I thought there was large scale project management effort behind it ....
[11:13] <amichair> Riddell: correct me if I'm wrong :-)
[11:13] <Riddell> that is one of its main outcomes
[11:13] <ct529> amichair: that is the reason because I said if I can be of any help
[11:14] <Riddell> it's some ideas for better quality in kubuntu, to implement it we just keep making kubuntu, but better
[11:14] <amichair> ct529: there is the timelord document with the general goals and direction for kubuntu
[11:15] <ct529> amichair: because I manage / have managed large development projects, like teams of 50+, maybe in 3/4 continents, large budget and many languages .... so I thought maybe this time I can give something back .... apart from the usual testing and spreading
[11:17] <amichair> I'm relatively new here... but I get the feeling some of the various teams/goals could use some organizing...
[11:20] <ct529> amichair: is there someone I can send an "application" to, or a resumee of my type of experience .... I am good with the organising, because it has been my job for a quite a long time, but not brilliant with the coding (very amateurish/ not professional) .... when I develop I mostly use R nowadays ....
[11:22] <ct529> amichair: for statistical stuff of course
[11:22] <ct529> amichair: but I doubt many people in kubuntu would like to use it for anything else :D
[11:23] <amichair> ct529: kubuntu is driven by a community of vulenteers, there's no need for an application at this stage. everyone is welcome to contribute in whatever they enjoy doing - u start off by getting your hands dirty, with time u can take on more and more responsibility
[11:25] <ct529> amichair: well, hands dirty at what? that is the point .... my skills are in project management .... so when I saw the title I though I could give something practical back using skills I have .... (well, and the little spare time I have :D ) ....
[11:25] <ct529> amichair: but if you talk about testing or coding I am useless
[11:25] <amichair> well I'm not a manager, so I don't know how u start off... managing something :-)
[11:26] <ct529> amichair: as in there are developers out there that can eat my head off any time ....
[11:26] <ct529> amichair: :D:D you normally apply .... I have never done it non professionally ....
[11:26] <amichair> I suppose getting familiar with the various aspects/teams is a good start, the types of ongoing work and future goals
[11:26] <ct529> amichair: so I do not know at all .... that was the reason for asking
[11:26] <Riddell> ct529: as a free software community project we have limited scope for pure management needs, the main blocker in any part of the project tends to be people to work on it.  so say if we needed more testers, the way to solve it would be by starting testing, coming up with procedures for that then becoming more or a leader by recruiting other people to help
[11:26] <ct529> amichair: yes, of course
[11:27] <ct529> Riddell: oh .... I see .... testing what?
[11:28] <Riddell> ISOs today
[11:28] <amichair> ct529: maybe with a bit more familiarity you'll see things pop up that could gain from your experience, and go ahead and help with them
[11:28] <ulysses__> ct529: the alpha 1 ISOs :) here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[11:28] <ct529> amichair: I have been using kubuntu /ubuntu since inception .... I do not think I can get more familiar than that :D
[11:28] <ct529> amichair: and before I used mandriva and suse
[11:28] <ct529> amichair: on server side we use debian
[11:29] <amichair> ct529: I mean familiarity not with the product, but with the people and processes behind it :-)
[11:30] <ct529> amichair: :)
[11:30] <ScottK> ct529: One of the things we most desparately need more help with is bug triaging.  Since you are familiar with Kubuntu and it sounds like you have a good professional experience to have an idea which bugs would be the most important, it might be an area you could profitably engage in?
[11:31] <ct529> ulysses__: that is my point .... but to install and test an alpha you need specific TECHNICAL skills not management skills ....
[11:31] <ct529> ScottK: yes that sounds very good .... hwo do you get involved with that?
[11:32] <ScottK> ct529: JontheEchidna is our primary bug triager.  It is a bit early for him to be awake, but you ask him.
[11:32] <ct529> ScottK: if you need it, I can test in a business environment  ....
[11:32] <ulysses__> ct529: I don't think xou need techinacl skills
[11:32] <ScottK> ct529: Also join #kubuntu-bugs.
[11:32] <ct529> ScottK: thanks! do you know what time for him? (sorry if I becoming very quick, but have to go back to office in like 5 min)
[11:33] <ScottK> ct529: He lives in -0500 and is here most days/evenings.
[11:33] <ct529> ulysses__: I tried installing RCs in the past and found out that either you are technically VERY good or you need a miracle :D
[11:33] <amichair> ct529: lurking on this channel is a good start in getting to know how things work and where you can step in to contribute
[11:33] <ct529> ScottK: thanks a lot, I will contact him .... do you mind if I save the chat and show it to him?
[11:34] <ct529> amichair: thanks!
[11:34] <ScottK> ct529: Not at all.  He should see this in his IRC scrollback when he wakes up.
[11:34] <ct529> I have to go .... it was very nice to talk to you all .... see you later, must go back to office!
[11:34] <ScottK> ct529: In the mean time you can join #kubuntu-bugs
[11:35] <ScottK> ct529: Welcome and see you later.
[11:35] <ct529> ScottK: will do!
[11:35] <amichair> ct529: thanks to you! :-)
[11:46] <amichair> Riddell: anyone find the cause of the plasma crash?
[11:51] <Riddell> amichair: not that I know of but today's ISOs seems to boot into plasma fine with the plasma-desktop-appletsrc I added yesterday
[11:51] <Riddell> ubiquity doesn't start unless you run it from the command line but seems to run fine otherwise
[11:57] <amichair> ok. at least there's a workaround for the time being.
[12:09] <amichair> what package does the kubuntu splash come from?
[12:09] <amichair> it's still messed up.
[12:12] <ulysses__> test failed again. the installation process worked, but after reboot there isn't splash screen, and it hangs up again, the last line I see is "* Starting init crypto disks... = to match a parent device, in /li[OK]" Screenshot is here: http://imagebin.ca/view/bnnUh1R.html
[12:13] <Riddell> amichair: which one?
[12:13] <Riddell> ulysses__: alternate CD?
[12:13] <amichair> Riddell: I just rsynced the amd64 desktop iso. plasma still crashes.
[12:14] <amichair> lucid-desktop-amd64
[12:14] <ulysses__> Riddell: yes, lucid-alternate-i386.iso, synced today
[12:17] <Riddell> amichair: do you know if it includes the updated plasma-desktop-appletsrc ?
[12:18] <Riddell> ulysses__: report a bug on udev I guess
[12:18] <ulysses__> that was reported yet, bug 491775
[12:19] <ulysses__> I talk with slangasek in #ubuntu-testing to report a bug in oem-config
[12:19] <Riddell> what's up with oem-config?
[12:19] <ulysses__> I don't know
[12:19] <amichair> Riddell: it looks like it has a few more things than the old one (which had 2 lines iirc)
[12:20] <amichair> Riddell: but after the crash it restarted and now I see just the wallpaper. maybe it just got half-generated.
[12:20] <amichair> I'll try a fresh reboot again
[12:22] <Riddell> hmm, and I can't test amd64 in a virtualbox on a i386 machine
[12:23] <amichair> I thought the T7250 was 64-bit
[12:23] <Riddell> not when I have i386 installed
[12:24] <amichair> had problems with amd64?
[12:24] <Riddell> no, I just happen not to have it installed
[12:25] <amichair> ok then :-)
[12:27] <amichair> Riddell: yep, still crashes, but this time around there's a wallpaper present. stack trace looks the same.
[12:30] <amichair> Riddell: this is the rc: http://imagebin.ca/view/t5CdvO-u.html
[12:32] <amichair> so it looks like it crashes, then restarts ok with a wallpaper. before it would crash after every restart too.
[12:33] <davmor2> Riddell: should there be a battery icon in the panel on a desktop machine?
[12:35] <ulysses__> okay, I reported a bug 'cause slangasek asked me to do it :-P bug 495012
[12:46] <Riddell> davmor2: preferably not
[12:47] <davmor2> Riddell: well it is something for a2 maybe ;)
[12:51] <amichair> what's the command for running the installer (the one that would be on the desktop, if there was one?)
[12:51] <Riddell> amichair: davmor2 is reporting no crash on amd64 desktop
[12:51] <Riddell> amichair: kdesudo ubiquity
[12:57] <amichair> Riddell: does the rc look the same?
[12:59] <Riddell> amichair: rc?
[12:59] <amichair> riddell: plasma-desktop-appletsrc
[12:59] <Riddell> yes the one you showed is the new updated one
[13:00] <Riddell> so all a bit spooky
[13:01] <amichair> yep. spooky action at a distance.
[13:33] <ulysses__> Just installed Lucid alternate i386 in VM, the install is successful, but I can't login, after typing the username and password I get a black screen with udev error messages (bug 491775 AGAIN)
[13:36] <Riddell> ulysses__: try again
[13:36] <Riddell> try logging in again, selecting KDE from the session menu
[13:37] <ulysses__> I'll try it
[13:40] <ulysses__> same thing
[13:42] <Riddell> I've just done the same thing with no problems, inconsistent results are annoying
[13:43] <ulysses__> very, very annoying
[13:44] <amichair> ubiquity is looking great! only tiny usability issue - when changing keyboard layout, it takes a long time for the combos and layout to be updated, during which they are still editable, which is confusing.
[13:45] <ScottK> Riddell: I'm stuck very busy with $WORK today, so no ISO testing for me.  It'd be nice if someone could at least smoke test the netbook ISO.
[13:45] <Riddell> shtylman's your man for that stuff
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm rsyncing now
[13:45] <ScottK> Cool.  Thanks.
[13:46] <ulysses__> Riddell: I try to fix the broken packages from recovery console, slangasek said me that the brltty was updated, probably it will help me
[13:47]  * Tm_T hates using old distro releases
[13:49] <rgreening> testdrive is your friend... Riddell are you using that? :)
[13:52] <ulysses__> Hurray, I see the ksplash \o/
[13:57] <ulysses__> hurraayyyyyyyy
[13:57] <ulysses__> I could login \o/
[13:59] <Riddell> ScottK: plasma-netbook crashes :(  bug 495043
[13:59] <Riddell> rgreening: what is it?
[13:59] <ScottK> Lovely
[13:59] <rgreening> Riddell: remember the p-lenary session about testing ISO dailys?
[14:00] <rgreening> Dustin Kirkland....
[14:00] <Riddell> must admit I don't
[14:00] <ScottK> Never heard of him
[14:00] <ulysses__> Riddell: after i fixed the broken packages, everything seems to be OK, do you think the test case passed or failed?
[14:00] <rgreening> haha
[14:00] <rgreening> oh my... Dustin is a server guy... worked on the ecryptfs stuff....
[14:01] <rgreening> https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[14:01] <Riddell> ulysses__: it doesn't really matter so long as we have a bug we can release note
[14:01] <rgreening> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/11/introducing-testdrive.html
[14:02] <rgreening> Testdrive takes the manually launching kvm, virtualbox, etc and automates it...
[14:03] <amichair> rgreening: I don't get it, what does testrive do that pressing 'start' on virtualbox doesn't?
[14:03] <rgreening> user only has to initially setup the pointer for Kubuntu, and then run testdrive. it'll rsync, and launch the vm, and then the rest is up to you.
[14:04] <ScottK> Riddell: It doesn't look anything like this does it? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217832
[14:04] <rgreening> amichair: testdrive is for auto syncing a daily iso (for example) and auto launching and autoconfig the vm.
[14:04] <rgreening> read the blog.
[14:04] <rgreening> it's not for long term or sustained vm's.
[14:04] <ghostcube> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2009/12/and-so-it-begins.html
[14:04] <ghostcube> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/12/malware-found-in-screensaver-for-ubuntu.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28Omg!+Ubuntu!%29
[14:04] <ghostcube> o.O
[14:04] <rgreening> it's really meant as a helpful qa tool to get people testing quicker
[14:05] <rgreening> if the user doesn't have to worry about tsync, vm config, etc and only in "testing" the live daily iso, it means the barrier for testing is lowered effectively.
[14:05] <rgreening> (at least in theory)
[14:05] <rgreening> :P
[14:05] <amichair> nice
[14:06] <Riddell> ScottK: nope, it crashes loading libattica
[14:07] <ScottK> OK.
[14:07] <ghostcube> hmm nice that it startet on gnome look
[14:07] <ghostcube> :D
[14:08] <Riddell> ScottK: http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/plasma-netbook-crash.png
[14:08] <Riddell> ScottK: but don't let me distract you from work!
[14:08] <ScottK> I'm avoiding writing an error class right now, so it's fine.
[14:09] <Riddell> rgreening: I'm not sure running rsync or telling virtual box which iso to use is the most lengthy part of testing compared to rsync running or virtualbox starting up
[14:10] <ScottK> Riddell: bugs.kde.org doesn't seem to know about such a crash, so it might be useful to report it there.
[14:10] <ScottK> I understand attica is going to be a hard depends shortly, so it won't go away.
[14:10]  * ScottK goes back to work
[14:10] <rgreening> Riddell: it's not about length, it's about removing obstacles which get in the way of "productive" work units. rsync, vm setup, etc are non productive work units wrt QA.
[14:11] <rgreening> when you remove non-productive work units, you are left with only productive ones, which should help yield better quality work units.
[14:11] <rgreening> (in theory)
[14:12] <amichair> "In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not."
[14:12] <amichair> :-P
[14:12] <rgreening> :)
[14:14] <ulysses__> Riddell: which test case choose you next?
[14:15] <Riddell> ulysses__: I'm on netbook now
[14:15] <Riddell> ulysses__: we need alternate amd64 tested
[14:16] <ulysses__> I can't:( my processor doesn't support hardware virtualization, and Virtualbox need it to run 64 bit guests
[14:17] <ulysses__> but I can test it on my laptop, I have enough space
[14:24] <amichair> anyone else getting errors installing virtualbox-ose-guest-utils (on the amd64 desktop iso)?
[14:34] <davmor2> Riddell: why are there a whole heap of kglobalaccel windows in info on the panel?
[14:34] <amichair> yeah, they bugged me too
[14:35] <davmor2> anyone want to guess at the cause and give me something to file a bug against please?
[14:36] <amichair> I can guess it's a 'feature', whenever an app registers a global accelerator, it shows up in the new notification system
[14:37] <Riddell> I blame upstream
[14:37] <davmor2> Riddell: any idea what to file against?
[14:38] <amichair> Riddell: I installed from live to hd, updated the 5 new packages offered by kpackagekit, and now I have a desktop!
[14:39] <amichair> Riddell: although, when I logon (enter credentials) it doesn't do anything (well disappears and reappears), and only on the second login it actually logs in and shows the desktop. dunno if it's related.
[14:40] <amichair> the clock is barely visible, too (dark gray on black)
[14:41] <amichair> ulysses__: I still don't see the splash... how did u fix it?
[14:42] <ulysses__> amichair: splash during the boot, or during the login?
[14:52] <Riddell> davmor2: kdelibs?
[15:01] <amichair> ulysses__: during boot
[15:02] <ulysses__> oh, I mean during login
[15:03] <amichair> so u still get the dark boot splash problem?
[15:03] <ulysses__> yes
[15:03] <amichair> \'-(
[15:03] <davmor2> Riddell: I thought you said worked as well as you could expect an alpha 1 to work? this has networking and everything :D
[15:04] <amichair> ooh. a typo made a crying pirate!
[15:05] <amichair> is there going to be a new wallpaper for lucid? the default one is getting a bit worn out.
[15:15] <ghostcube> i like this white wallpaper with this 3d pingu :D
[15:20] <davmor2> Riddell: are you having to type in your details twice on first login?
[15:21] <Riddell> davmor2: yes
[15:21] <davmor2> did you file a bug?
[15:21] <Riddell> not yet, not sure how to look into where the error is
[15:23] <davmor2> Riddell: okay. Also the panel isn't reaching all the way across the screen again :(
[15:24] <Riddell> davmor2: are you on amd64 desktop?
[15:25] <davmor2> Riddell: yeap
[15:26] <maco> oh you're getting to play with the alpha now!
[15:26]  * maco can't wait to get laptop back from repair
[15:26] <davmor2> just realised I put my bugs in the wrong place Meh they still apply on alt it just failed the same way :)
[15:29] <ScottK> maco: Go steal the netbook.
[15:30] <maco> ScottK: i dont think i should reset the bios password without permission
[15:31] <maco> and i still want a shiny arm netbook to play with!
[15:31] <jjesse> that would be fun :)
[15:31] <ScottK> No Kubuntu love on armel until I figure out how to make boost build.
[15:31] <maco> Riddell was holding an arm board at UDS and said it had kubuntu on it
[15:31] <maco> he was looking for a USB keyboard so he could play with it
[15:32] <ScottK> That was Karmic.  It worked there.
[15:32] <maco> ah
[15:32]  * txwikinger is looking for a snowy wallpaper to match the outside
[15:33] <maco> txwikinger: make sure its just a png, not a deb ;)
[15:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna's wallpaper is safe and has snow.
[15:33] <txwikinger> maco: ??? a .deb wallpaper?
[15:34] <daSkrEEch> krunner crashes like it's going out of style :(
[15:34] <daSkrEEch> !find wallpapers
[15:34] <daSkrEEch> ^^^^^
[15:34] <txwikinger> Where is JontheTaco's wallpaper?
[15:34] <maco> txwikinger: someone made a .deb to install a wallpaper in /usr/share/whatever place gnome puts the default ones (so all users can have them) and put it on gnome-look. only it didnt do just that. it also installed a rootkit.
[15:34] <txwikinger> maco: Ah
[15:35] <daSkrEEch> maco: hosted on a repository ?
[15:35]  * txwikinger wonders why chrome does not do -webkit-grab
[15:35] <maco> daSkrEEch: no, just a deb sitting in gnome-look
[15:35] <ScottK> Fortunately apturl made it easy to install
[15:35] <daSkrEEch> bleah. That was bound to get looked at sooner or later
[15:36] <maco> social engineering ftw
[15:36] <txwikinger> natural selection?
[15:38]  * daSkrEEch yawns
[15:38] <amichair> firefox (installer and app) are out of place in the new hierarchical menu
[15:38] <daSkrEEch> How is 4.4 on the lynx?
[15:38] <maco> amichair: new hierarchical menu?
[15:39] <maco> amichair: did it revert to the default kde way of having internet -> browsers -> firefox instead of internet -> firefox?
[15:39] <maco> because kubuntu doesnt follow kde on that. we always have shallower menus
[15:39] <amichair> under internet category there are now sub-categories... it's pretty ugly
[15:39] <maco> yeah there shouldnt be subcategories. theyll be gone by release
[15:39] <Riddell> yuck
[15:39] <amichair> maco: glad to hear. so it needs to be fixed.
[15:39] <maco> right
[15:40] <maco> why do we lose that patch every time we package the new kde?
[15:40] <maco> shouldnt it be in quilt?
[15:41] <Riddell> I expect it's a change upstream that has caused it
[15:41] <maco> and now patch doesnt apply?
[15:42] <Riddell> or someone just added a new category
[15:42] <maco> it's that sensitive?
[15:42] <amichair> it's kind of funny having byobu opening in konsole from the k-menu
[15:42] <maco> boo i wouldve thought it was just "show_subcategories = false;"
[15:44] <nixternal> hola
[15:44] <jjesse> hola
[15:44] <amichair> from two different categories, no less!
[15:44] <nixternal> it sure is cold out there today
[15:44] <jjesse> nope its just me
[15:44] <ghostcube> nah :| 10 degrees here
[15:45] <nixternal> -12C
[15:45] <ghostcube> :D
[15:45] <ghostcube> oi
[15:45] <nixternal> 10f here :)
[15:45] <ghostcube> 10 C here
[15:45] <ghostcube> :)
[15:45] <jjesse> 16f here
[15:45] <jjesse> w/o the wind chill
[15:45] <ghostcube> heh
[15:45]  * nixternal checks wind chill
[15:45] <ghostcube> its definetly to warm for middle europe in december
[15:45] <ghostcube> :D
[15:46] <nixternal> -29C/-20F wind chill
[15:46] <amichair> are the boot splash and double-login issues reported somewhere? should they be?
[15:46] <nixternal> I love having one of the NOAA weather stations attached to the house...you get real time, well callobrated weather information :)
[15:46] <ghostcube> hehe
[15:47] <nixternal> and when you watch Chicago weather and show the temperature for DuPage, they show our house and the air port :)
[15:48] <amichair> and the dark clock? and the battery icon?
[15:48] <nixternal> I wish the local mirror had lucid
[15:49] <nixternal> amichair: yeah, they were reported yesterday
[15:49] <nixternal> what's up with the boot splash?
[15:49] <amichair> nixternal: my questino exactly :-)
[15:49] <nixternal> mine seems fine actually
[15:49] <nixternal> about the only thing that works
[15:49] <nixternal> I did 'encrypted home directory' but encryption is so f'd up it isn't even funny
[15:50] <nixternal> so I can't log in anyways now
[15:50] <nixternal> gotta reformat/reinstall....man I feel like a windows user :p
[15:50] <nixternal> it is weird...last night I had no problems...today I can't login cuz of the encrypted home...but I got to a desktop last night
[15:51] <amichair> nixternal: it's so dark as to be hardly visible. ulysses__ posted an image somewhere.
[15:51] <nixternal> mine wasn't dark...I actually opened up system settings last night and about went blind from the damn brightness :)
[15:52] <daSkrEEch> 220 C here
[15:52] <daSkrEEch> Umm
[15:52] <daSkrEEch> 20
[15:52] <jjesse> wow 220C that's warm
[15:52] <amichair> nixternal: this is only on the boot splash+progress, cd check, etc., not under X
[15:52] <jjesse> nixternal i thought you went blind for some other reason
[15:52] <amichair> nixternal: original boot menu is ok though, it only gets screwed up after selecting one of the actions
[15:53] <nixternal> jjesse: har har prevert!
[15:53] <amichair> I gotta skedaddle. will resume testing tonight...
[15:53]  * daSkrEEch avoids Encryption like the plague
[15:53] <nixternal> amichair: ahh, ok....
[15:53] <Quintasan> hurr
[15:53]  * nixternal does alt installs
[15:53] <nixternal> encryption is good
[15:53] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I should do ruby kde.rb or amarok.rb first?
[15:54] <Quintasan> lol encryption, enjoy your performace :P
[15:54] <nixternal> you should rm -rf *.rb cuz ruby is the fail :p
[15:55] <nixternal> I think Chicago is the reason I do not like Ruby to be honest....This is the world of Ruby...the creator of Rails, a friend of mine, is here....All of these kids with Macs playing with Ruby get on my nerves
[15:55] <nixternal> you can't go to starbucks w/o hearing someone talking about ruby or rails
[15:55] <daSkrEEch> nixternal: Until someone explains to me how I get into my encryption from another computer It's a dead horse for me
[15:55] <Riddell> or as Scott Wheeler says "I like Ruby, I just don't like Ruby users"
[15:55] <ulysses__> :D
[15:56] <daSkrEEch> Ah My Friend is like that with Mac
[15:56] <nixternal> Riddell: hrmm, good point...Ruby is a nice language to be honest
[15:57] <daSkrEEch> As long as no one uses it :)
[15:57] <daSkrEEch> nixternal: So if Ruby was Lua you'd love it?
[16:02] <Quintasan> I'm stuck with Ruby since apachelogger wrote project neon in ruby :D
[16:02] <Quintasan> okay, what upgrading to Qt 4.6 and 4.4 b1 might do to my KVM?
[16:05] <daSkrEEch> It will start speaking scripture of 4 releigions backwards your twinhead view will rotate 360 degrees and and you will need an old priest and a young priest
[16:06] <Riddell> all those 4s.  Can't be good marketing in China
[16:06] <Quintasan> lol
[16:06]  * jussi01 is born on 4/4 if that counts for anything...
[16:06] <jussi01> :D
[16:07] <daSkrEEch> That's why it's call Kubuntu KDE the good version
[16:07] <maco> Riddell: or japan
[16:07] <davmor2> Riddell: done a general one for kdm bug 495100
[16:07] <maco> 四
[16:08] <Riddell> davmor2: ta
[16:08] <daSkrEEch> There are some good KDE hackers in China
[16:09] <Quintasan> hurr
[16:09] <Quintasan> IBus just stopped working
[16:10] <daSkrEEch> Probably should see if we can find a good bridge to have more communication with them
[16:11] <davmor2> Quintasan: teach you to use apples public transport service ;)
[16:11] <Quintasan> >apple
[16:11] <Quintasan> :/
[16:12] <Quintasan> 四
[16:13] <Quintasan> hah
[16:13] <Quintasan> I remember going to #ubuntu-jp
[16:21] <Quintasan> trillian? ain't that some sort of windows im?
[16:23] <maco> yes
[16:23] <maco> it does irc too
[16:24] <maco> its like a proprietary pidgin with fewer protocols
[16:25] <apachelogger> Quintasan: that depends on what you want to do :P
[16:26] <apachelogger> amarok.rb will do the amarok-nightly packages whereas kde.rb does the kde-nightly ones
[16:26] <apachelogger> what you need to keep in mind, that sourcewise those are completely independent package stacks
[16:26] <Quintasan> both failed building :/
[16:26] <Quintasan> due to missing dependencies from nightly builds
[16:27] <apachelogger> they however use the same buildchain (which is mostly stock pks + amarok-nightly-tools/cdbs)
[16:27] <apachelogger> Quintasan: eh?
[16:28] <nixternal> someone highlight me
[16:28] <Quintasan> nixternal:
[16:28] <nixternal> do it again :)
[16:29] <Quintasan> nixternal:
[16:29] <nixternal> !nixternal
[16:29] <nixternal> booyah, thanks!
[16:29] <Quintasan> lol
[16:29] <Quintasan> !cookies
[16:29] <apachelogger> quite possibly he imploded
[16:29] <Quintasan> !Quintasan
[16:29] <Quintasan> :<
[16:30] <apachelogger> hm
[16:30] <apachelogger> oh why, it's nixternal
[16:30] <daSkrEEch> !nixternal is more uber than !anyone
[16:30] <apachelogger> !uber
[16:30] <apachelogger> ubottu: if you query me again I will declare war on you
[16:31] <apachelogger> most anoying is that bot that comes and queries you on each join though
[16:31] <apachelogger> the loco bot does that IIRC
[16:31] <apachelogger> whoever had that idea...
[16:31] <daSkrEEch> perhaps it speaks to you in whatever language is local to you?
[16:35] <Quintasan> ~cookies for apachelogger
[16:35] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:35] <Quintasan> !cookies for apachelogger
[16:35] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for apachelogger
[16:35]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to apachelogger.
[16:40] <daSkrEEch> are Koala packages being done or Lynx issues are being worked out first?
[16:43]  * apachelogger needs to implement an error handler in c
[16:49] <nixternal> !nixternal
[16:49] <nixternal> ok, I think I unfubarred my irssi
[16:51] <nixternal> now, someone do me the honor, and msg me :)
[16:54] <ScottK> nixternal: Hi
[16:54] <Tm_T> nixternal: hrr
[16:54] <nixternal> can you read this?
[16:54] <ScottK> nixternal: No
[16:54] <nixternal> ok, just checking :)
[16:54] <Tm_T> awww
[16:54] <nixternal> now msg me
[16:55] <nixternal> ok...whew, though I broke it even more :)
[16:55] <Tm_T> nixternal: yu, and I kept tabfilling "ni" to "nickserv" so msg took some time (;)
[16:56] <nixternal> hehe
[16:56] <nixternal> hrmm, nickserv isn't in my tab complete
[17:21] <daSkrEEch> It's a bad thing for KDE to keep changing radically roughly every 6 months or so
[17:21] <daSkrEEch> Hmm OK having any new features is a bad thing?
[17:28] <ghostcube> bbl
[17:51] <nixternal> daSkrEEch: how is it changing radically every six months?
[17:52] <nixternal> I know the plasma stuff changed...wouldn't call it radical, would call it closer to feature complete
[17:53] <daSkrEEch> nixternal: quote from a comment on a article
[17:53] <nixternal> oh
[17:53] <daSkrEEch> Seeing as how the article was on the budget of KDE I'm going to file it under troll :)
[17:53] <nixternal> my eyes are still a bit frosted over...was outside trying to clean a little of the snow up...but I about froze to death
[17:54] <daSkrEEch> With your eyelashes?
[17:54] <nixternal> I think I need a Kubuntu sweater to keep me warm out there :D
[17:54]  * daSkrEEch glances at Riddell's blog 
[17:54] <daSkrEEch> Yeah would be great if that was possible
[17:55] <daSkrEEch> nixternal: Familar with laTex?
[17:55] <nixternal> a bit
[17:56] <daSkrEEch> Do you know if You can offset biblography ?
[17:56] <daSkrEEch> so that when you cite{} it starts at X number instead of [1] ?
[17:58] <nixternal> hrmm
[17:58] <nixternal> why would you want to do that first off?
[17:58] <nixternal> it can be done though...just trying to remember off the top of my head how to reset
[17:58]  * nixternal looks at his latex code
[17:59] <daSkrEEch> To add completion to a previous coded document
[18:00] <txwikinger> there is a variable that can be set
[18:01] <nixternal> yeah, but doing it that way will offset all of them though
[18:01] <nixternal> are you using bibtex for your bib or being lazy and just doing it the hard way with latex?
[18:01] <daSkrEEch> bibtex
[18:03] <nixternal> have you tried \cite[Foo]{11}, where Foo would be what you are citing, and 11 would be the number you want to start at?
[18:03] <binarylooks> For whoever is doing the 4.4 debs for karmic on the staging ppa (Lex79?), Launchpad bug 494731 also applies for them.
[18:04] <daSkrEEch> I'll try that
[18:04] <nixternal> binarylooks: does it crash with plasma default settings or kubuntu-default settings?
[18:04] <nixternal> I removed kubuntu-default-settings, by accident...and my plasma-desktop does not crash
[18:05] <binarylooks> nixternal: to be honest, I do not know, it crashed, than I took an appletsrc from JontheEchidna from yesterday and it worked
[18:05] <nixternal> heh, so we released alpha 1? hey, it installs, but that's all it really does right now :p
[18:06] <binarylooks> i overwrote plasma-desktop-appletrc in .kde/share/config
[18:06] <txwikinger> we have already an alpha-release ?
[18:07] <Riddell> seems so
[18:07] <binarylooks> txwikinger: well, ubiquity still does not launch after hitting the icon. kdesuso ubiquity does
[18:08]  * txwikinger wonders if an alpha release is an automatic process or if there is some testing before the release
[18:09] <binarylooks> txwikinger: there has to be a big red button in Mark's basement :-)
[18:09] <txwikinger> Does Mark have a basement?
[18:10] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:10] <Riddell> txwikinger: we've been testing all day
[18:10] <txwikinger> Riddell: cool
[18:10] <nixternal> well, i just installed the latest iso and I have nothing
[18:11] <nixternal> after removing kubuntu-default-settings by accident, I have a somewhat plasma-desktop
[18:11] <Riddell> it's alpha 1, of course it's full of bugs, if it wasn't full of bugs we'd call it final
[18:11] <nixternal> yeah, but shouldn't we at least be able to do a little something with an alpha 1?
[18:12] <txwikinger> Riddell: that's why a wondered about having already an alpha :)
[18:12] <txwikinger> why I wondered
[18:12] <nixternal> imho Kubuntu just wasn't ready yet to have an alpha 1 release.... >.< that close though :)
[18:12] <binarylooks> Riddell: manual partitioning crashes, I will have a look at the iso tracker if the bug is known
[18:12] <nixternal> manual partitioning worked for me, using the alt installer
[18:12] <binarylooks> nixternal: i'm using the desktop cd downloaded 30 min ago
[18:13] <nixternal> does that also happen on the ubuntu desktop cd?
[18:13] <nixternal> come on qa.u.c, work already
[18:13] <ScottK> Nightrose: This looks like something that might be interesting for your b.k.o bite size bugs work: https://openhatch.org/wiki/Bug_trackers
[18:14] <txwikinger> nixternal: what is qa.u.c?
[18:14] <Nightrose> thx - will have a look
[18:14] <nixternal> qa.ubuntu.com
[18:14] <binarylooks> nixternal: am trying to get a connection to file a bug
[18:15] <binarylooks> basically it says "got an unexpected keyword argument 'format'
[18:15] <nixternal> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/494608
[18:15] <nixternal> there is your manual partitioning bug
[18:16] <nixternal> and that is with ubuntu desktop as well
[18:16] <nixternal> partman_edit_dialog()
[18:16] <nixternal> TypeError: edit_partition() got an unexpected keyword argument 'format'
[18:17] <binarylooks> nixternal: it's private, but I guess that must be it
[18:17] <nixternal> it is it, I just filed it in iso.qa.ubuntu.com as well for Kubuntu
[18:18] <binarylooks> nixternal: ok, also, there is no network plasmoid in the panel by default?
[18:20] <nixternal> there isn't much, just a battery icon with the x on a desktop computer :) and the typical stuff, but yeah, no nm plasmoid
[18:20] <txwikinger> haha... launchpad and konqueror do not work with each other very well rofl
[18:20] <nixternal> txwikinger: lp and * do not work with each other very well :p
[18:20] <nixternal> txwikinger: could be the new ajaxy stuff they added if you are using beta
[18:20] <txwikinger> nixternal: yep.. seems to be
[18:20] <nixternal> LP and Chrome work pretty damn good though
[18:21] <nixternal> ipv6.disable=1 to grub, and setting my dns to opendns worked wonders for that though
[18:21] <binarylooks> :-( i had hoped to contribute a bit to project timelord, but it seems both karmic and lucid are on hold for 4.4 testing, I'll play around a bit with the live session
[18:21] <txwikinger> nixternal: well.. chome does not have the same poblem
[18:22] <nixternal> binarylooks: oh, there is still plenty of time for project landlord
[18:22] <nixternal> err, timelord :p
[18:22] <binarylooks> :-) yep
[18:22] <ScottK> binarylooks: Timelord needs plenty of bug triage work.
[18:23] <nixternal> heh, I like that...project landlord.... daSkrEEch you have been evicted!
[18:23] <nixternal> daSkrEEch: any word on your latex stuff? did it work?
[18:25] <binarylooks> ScottK: I'll surely help out whichever way i can
[18:25] <ScottK> binarylooks: Would you join #kubuntu-bugs?
[18:26] <daSkrEEch> nixternal: It's workable :)
[18:26] <binarylooks> hmmm, ok i'll try
[18:27] <nixternal> groovy
[18:27] <daSkrEEch> ScottK: Are the lynx bugs being worked out before 4.4b1 is packaged for Koala?
[18:28] <ScottK> daSkrEEch: Dunno.  I haven't been involved in the Karmic stuff.
[18:29] <daSkrEEch> Who has?
[18:29] <ScottK> I don't remember.  Look at the PPA and see who uploaded stuff.
[18:31] <daSkrEEch> kk
[18:33] <binarylooks> daSkrEEch: i'm running the ppa packages at the moment. they more or less work
[18:34] <daSkrEEch> that would be staging ?
[18:34] <binarylooks> yep, staging karmic
[18:35] <daSkrEEch> Ok
[18:35] <binarylooks> had to replace the plasma-desktop-appletsrc and than it work, the lucid bug was mentioned an hour ago
[18:35]  * daSkrEEch doesn't runn plasma-desktop anyway :)
[18:35] <binarylooks> daSkrEEch: that reminds me I haven't switched to netbook yet
[18:35] <daSkrEEch> Which reminds me why does Konsole crash x-terminal-emultaor ?
[18:36] <daSkrEEch> anyone on Lucid want to give that a try?
[18:38] <binarylooks> daSkrEEch: kwin crashes and kwin --replace doesn't help :-( I think the staging debs need some love still
[18:39] <daSkrEEch> Driver issues?
[18:39] <ScottK> binarylooks: Don't install stuff from staging.
[18:40] <binarylooks> ScottK: I know, I can live with a bit of a breakage for a few days
[18:40] <ScottK> binarylooks: Look at the description of that PPA.  If that isn't scary enough, please give us a suggestions what would have been scary enough to get you not to install from there?
[18:41] <binarylooks> ScottK: a void warranty warning?
[18:41] <ScottK> Since there's no warranty to start with, I'm not sure that helps.
[18:42] <binarylooks> ScottK: u're right, i'll reinstall karmic and focus on bug riaging. maybe that's more useful
[18:42] <Lex79> ScottK, have I to backport the fix in kubuntu-default-settings ?
[18:43] <ScottK> Lex79: Yes.
[18:43] <nixternal> Riddell, apachelogger, ScottK: updating my todo list today (inbox zaro)....anything with a priority less than RIGHT NOW! I can add...I need to mop up some salt spots on my hardwood floors, so I will be busy for the next hour or so
[18:43] <Lex79> ok I'll do
[18:44] <ScottK> Lex79: You should also backport kubuntu-meta since the plasma-desktop package is needed and not in the Karmic kubuntu-desktop.
[18:44] <Lex79> perfect, ok
[18:44] <daSkrEEch> ScottK: How stern a warning would you like to not install from staging?
[18:45] <ScottK> nixternal: How about finishing kdeedu.  It needs new binary packages added (two, IIRC).  List missing is in bar.
[18:45] <ScottK> daSkrEEch: Whatever works.
[18:45] <nixternal> ScottK: can it wait a couple of hours?
[18:45] <ScottK> nixternal: Absolutely.
[18:45] <nixternal> ok, it is on my todo list now
[18:46] <ScottK> Excellent.
[18:46] <daSkrEEch> ScottK: I've noticed a few people around the place saying they are trying out Kubuntu 4.4b on KK
[18:46] <ScottK> Hopefully Lex79 will get the packages finished soon.
[18:46] <daSkrEEch> ONly one of them I know is installing from source so I'm assuming that unless there is some third party they are using the staging ppa
[18:50] <ghostcube> 4.3.80 is in staging or backport ?
[18:51] <daSkrEEch> staging
[18:51] <daSkrEEch> so it's not usable
[18:51] <ghostcube> daSkrEEch: thx :)
[18:51] <daSkrEEch> ghostcube: Don't install it
[18:51] <ghostcube> nah i only wanted to know which one to comment :)
[18:52] <binarylooks> binarylooks: I am feeling very criminal now
[18:53] <ghostcube> daSkrEEch: i last opened staging for qt 4.6 i think so
[18:53] <ghostcube> so i just wanted to be sure that kde 4.3.8 is in staging
[18:53] <jtechidna> I believe this is the first time the first alpha has shipped with KDE 4.x+1
[18:53] <daSkrEEch> You could check the ppa page
[18:54] <daSkrEEch> Fortunacity
[18:54] <jtechidna> maybe we should wait until alpha2 as usual next time?
[18:54] <ghostcube> hehe but youre right its staging
[18:54] <ghostcube> :)
[18:56] <txwikinger> jtechidna: Well.. if there is nothing new you don't need any alpha release either
[18:58] <ghostcube> isnt lucid goal to be more stable than karmic than be much more up to date with new features
[18:59] <txwikinger> ghostcube: Yes it is
[18:59] <ghostcube> hmm i think this wasent the best grammar ever
[18:59] <ghostcube> :)
[19:00] <daSkrEEch> What are the showstopper bugs for Lynx release?
[19:01] <txwikinger> Not sure... Karmic is pretty good already
[19:11]  * daSkrEEch files not having a failsafe login as a problem
[19:17] <binarylooks> Warning massage for staging: "These packages are known to possibly corrupt your data and a necessity for complete reinstallation is quite certain. You have been warned"
[19:27] <Riddell> debfx: are you able to reply to this? http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2009-November/009073.html
[19:27] <Riddell> debfx: might be time to suggest they look at it (if only to keep it in mind for 4.5)
[19:28] <daSkrEEch> binarylooks: Reading is FUN (Editors Note: damental)
[19:36] <binarylooks> :-)
[20:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I think getting 4.3.80 in for Alpha 1 was good.  Sooner the better in my book.
[20:12] <ScottK> I don't think "Hey, they released an Alpha that crashes a lot" will hurt much.
[20:16] <Riddell> I've deliberatly made the story on kubuntu.org one big caveat
[20:18] <ScottK> Maybe I didn't pay attention this early before, but this is the first Alpha 1 I remember being more than "Wow, we have an ISO".
[20:18] <maco> hahaha
[20:18]  * maco looks at kubuntu.org
[20:22]  * ScottK does the boost built on armel victory dance.
[20:23] <Riddell> awooga
[20:23] <Riddell> ScottK: what was the trick?
[20:24] <maco> hahahahahah
[20:24] <ScottK> Two problems: 1.  Lucid is Python 2.6 only, not 2.5/2.6 and two boost modules got merged and the package wasn't updated (I don't know how it ever built before).
[20:32] <nicklas_>  i added these except the package staging https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa and also https://launchpad.net/~philip5/+archive/extra ... now amarok and dragon dont start, what is wrong you think? pastie here, http://pastebin.com/d7ffcdc70
[20:36] <verbalshadow> anyone else having issues getting the ubiquity installer working on todays livecd working
[20:37] <ScottK> verbalshadow: Yes.  You have to kdesudo ubiquity to get it started
[20:38] <verbalshadow> ScottK: thanks that got it going
[20:42] <verbalshadow> is there a bug about kde network manager not being on but defualt already filed or do i need to do it
[20:42] <verbalshadow> i used cnetworkmanager to connect to my AP
[20:56] <Riddell> verbalshadow: I don't think there is
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I know why there's no NetworkManager by default in alpha 1.
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> plasma-widget-networkmanagement really contains the plasma widget in alpha1, but it's not set to be on by default in the config (and probably shouldn't, yet)
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> knetworkmanager moved back to network-manager-kde, which for some reason is in universe
[21:03] <maco> doh
[21:03] <JontheEchidna> Aren't merges lovely?
[21:04] <verbalshadow> JontheEchidna: when it brings new toys yup
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> the plasmoid should be on the CD, at least
[21:05] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: So we need to seed network-manager-kde?
[21:05] <yofel> well, the plasma widget doesn't work at all here, the menu is only some 20x20 pixels large and can't be resized.
[21:05] <verbalshadow> JontheEchidna: just stays a small square on my system
[21:05] <verbalshadow> yofel: ditto
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: yeah, until the plasmoid becomes more usable
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> if we switch at all
[21:05] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure I don't know why I'd prefer the plasmoid.
[21:06] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Want to do your first seed change?
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> I sorta did one before, but sure
[21:06] <verbalshadow> i didn't think will got to the plasmoid for 4.4, only knetworkmanager
[21:06] <ScottK> It'll be good practice and we can see if the access controls work.
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: It'll need promoted to main first
[21:07] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No, seed it now.  That'll put it in component mismatches.
[21:07] <JontheEchidna> oh, ok
[21:07] <ScottK> Then once it's in Main, you update kubuntu-meta.
[21:07] <JontheEchidna> So.. seeds? Maybe I've not done this before
[21:07] <JontheEchidna> I think I only ever updated kubuntu-meta
[21:08] <nicklas_> no solution yet?
[21:08] <verbalshadow> oh one more error the partationing part of ubuiquity is crashing a during manuel setup
[21:08] <verbalshadow> similiar to what it did during the karmic devel
[21:09] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Getting the relevant wiki page for you.
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> Thanks
[21:10] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: This pretty well explains it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement
[21:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: The current seed for us is kubuntu.lucid and since this is something that is common between desktop and netbook, it would go in kubuntu-common.
[21:16] <JontheEchidna> Permission denied: "/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.lucid/.bzr/branch/lock/r6p9ms8f1i.tmp": [Errno 13] mkdir failed
[21:16] <ScottK> Interestinig.
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> That's trying to commit
[21:19] <verbalshadow> is anyone working on plymouth splash yet?
[21:23] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: OK.  I pinged cjwatson.
[21:24] <ScottK> I guess I'll go ahead and do it then.
[21:24] <Riddell> ScottK: do which?
[21:24] <ScottK> Riddell: Seed network-manager-kde
[21:25] <ScottK> Riddell: Any  objections?
[21:27] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: [16:26:21] <cjwatson> ScottK: we probably ought to move them - although unfortunately that requires a Launchpad code change
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> oh joy
[21:30] <Riddell> ScottK: it isn't already?
[21:31] <ScottK> Riddell: It is now.
[21:32] <ScottK> Back later.
[21:36] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Correction.  No code change needed.  We can get you fixed up on Monday.  Please remind me.
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> will do
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> I wonder how hard it would be to port the ubuntu plymouth theme to a more kubuntu-y theme
[21:41] <verbalshadow> JontheEchidna: know idea where is the source to ubuntu's plymouth theme
[21:41]  * Sput notes that the knetworkmanager-applet is working very well for him in current KDE trunk
[21:41] <Sput> the plasmoid is actually less trouble than the tray application
[21:41]  * txwikinger wonders if you always have o first fix launchpad before fix something in the packages
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> verbalshadow: dget https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/plymouth_0.8.0~-3.dsc
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> The theme looks very easy to port as it's quite simple at the moment ;-)
[21:42] <verbalshadow> Sput: maybe but right now the plasmoid is useless
[21:43] <Sput> verbalshadow: if it's any remotely recent version, I'd blame that on kubuntu and check if some bug happened there, because it has been working very well in my distro (for a couple months)
[21:44] <Sput> whereas the tray application has a lot of trouble with a corrupt context menu, rendering it mostly unusable for me
[21:44] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: thanks for helping spiff up the release notes, I was somehow under the impression last night that there wouldn't be an alpha1
[21:44] <claydoh> looks like you guys still rock!
[21:44] <Sput> well, just my 2 cents :)
[21:44] <verbalshadow> Sput: the tray app has work nothing but great for me
[21:45] <Sput> fun.
[21:45] <Sput> :)
[21:45] <Sput> I got empty and overlapping menu entries
[21:46] <Sput> I had to restart networkmanager after every resume too
[21:46] <verbalshadow> hmm
[21:53] <verbalshadow> i wonder why ubiquity doesn't have a seperate partation for / and /home option seem like is would be a good one to have
[22:32] <ScottK> Because it's more trouble than it's worth.
[22:32] <verbalshadow> ScottK: really?
[22:32] <ScottK> It already won't install over an existing /home in /, so what's the benifit?
[22:33] <ScottK> It adds a lot of complexity to the partioning schemes.
[22:33] <verbalshadow> i didn't know that
[22:33] <ScottK> There's a long discussion in a spec about it, but I don't recall where.
[22:34] <verbalshadow> if that is the case we don't need it then
[22:35] <Riddell> there's still good reasons to have a separate /home partition, but I don't think it's something the users ubiquity is targeted at should care about
[22:35] <maco> the good reason i can come up with is / ext4 and /home ext3
[22:36] <maco> thats how i do my family's machines because ive had kontact's data get eaten by ext4 3x already
[22:37] <skreech> maco: btrfs!!
[22:37] <Lure> maco: what kontact data?
[22:37] <maco> Lure: once my contacts, once my mail, once my calendars
[22:37]  * Lure has everything on ext4, no problem with kontact
[22:38] <Lure> maco: just config?
[22:38] <Lure> or actual data?
[22:38] <maco> data
[22:38]  * Lure is concerned now, does another backup ;-)
[22:38] <maco> i had to restore my contacts from old evolution backups, redownload all my mail from gmail, and...well, my calendars are still blank
[22:39] <maco> downloading all my mail took a full day
[22:39] <verbalshadow> i have my data on the google server
[22:39] <Lure> maco: this is why my calendar is @google too ;-)
[22:39] <skreech> Downloading all my mail takes ... well I'm still not done
[22:40] <maco> im including overnight in "a full day"
[22:40] <maco> anyway, this is just reminding me i need to take another backup as i havent taken one since karmic was released
[22:53]  * Sput trusts ReiserFS more than ext*
[22:54] <Sput> the latter have eaten moar data (yes, ext3 too) than ReiserFS
[22:54] <Sput> for me
[22:54] <Sput> which is surprising, because I've rarely even used ext*
[22:57] <Riddell> yeah but nobody will make bad taste jokes about murdering your wife with ext
[22:58] <verbalshadow> to what ext did you kill your wife?
[22:58] <skreech> I don't remember FAT not found
[23:02] <Sput> Riddell: do I look like I care? :)
[23:03] <ScottK> ReiserFS isn't precisely heavily maintained these days.
[23:03] <Sput> seriously though, I was going to format my fileserver partition with ext3 for reliability, but the metadata took a couple 100 GB more than reiserfs wanted
[23:03] <Sput> ScottK: neither is ext3 :)
[23:03] <ScottK> That's rather more recent than ResierFS' lack of maintenance.
[23:04] <Sput> isn't reiserfs maintained by novell or something?
[23:04] <Sput> anyway, I have less data loss with reiserfs than with ext*
[23:04] <Sput> :)
[23:04]  * ScottK doesn't think so.
[23:04] <Sput> and we're all waiting for ButterFS to go stable anyway
[23:06] <skreech> Isn't it set to be removed in the next kernel release?
[23:06] <Sput> also, all file systems suck. I think the only one that has never eaten mah dataz was Reiser4
[23:07] <Sput> I've had full partition losses with ext3 and ext4 and xfs, I've had reiserfs forget parts of its tree...
[23:07] <Sput> skreech: which one?
[23:07] <skreech> ResierFS
[23:07] <ScottK> Riddell: Now that Qt and Boost are fixed, we got our first ~kde armel porting issue to deal with: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/akonadi/1.2.80-0ubuntu1/+build/1380152/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.akonadi_1.2.80-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[23:08] <ScottK> Any ideas?
[23:13] <Riddell> ScottK: I assume soprano is up to date on arm?
[23:13] <ScottK> IIRC yes.  Double checking
[23:14] <Riddell> yes seems to be
[23:14] <ScottK> Yep
[23:14] <ScottK> Akonadi was blocked by boost, but I cleared that just now.
[23:15] <amichair> hey what happened to the notification icon configuration in system settings? did it move somewhere?
[23:15] <Riddell> ScottK: last comment on http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/11/12/bc-break-in-46-against-previous-46/ ?
[23:15] <skreech> Sput: I think btrFS was shipped with the last release as atest. The next one as a preview and possibly a tentative release for the one after that
[23:16] <Riddell> maybe soprano on arm didn't get recompiled against the final qt 4.6?
[23:16] <skreech> So I may be laying with btrFS soon
[23:16] <Sput> skreech: it's been shipped for quite a while actually, but not marked as stable
[23:16] <Sput> but yeah, I'm toying with the thought too
[23:16] <skreech> RIght that's what I was getting at :)
[23:16] <Sput> maybe put my next system partition on btrfs
[23:16] <skreech> I've played with beta releases of file systems before but I think I may have grown up since then
[23:17] <skreech> I had my /home on beta XFS
[23:17] <Sput> I'm running KDE trunk on top of Qt and X11 from git master
[23:17] <Sput> I think I'm still young :)
[23:17] <skreech> Which treated me far better than Ext2 or ext3
[23:17] <Sput> XFS ate two of my partitions
[23:17] <Sput> completely
[23:18] <ScottK> Riddell: Good call: libqt4-dbus_4%3a4.6.0~beta1-1ubuntu1
[23:18] <Sput> it doesn't like power loss
[23:18] <Sput> at all
[23:18]  * ScottK fixes
[23:18] <skreech> You just need a hotline from Linus' git repo to your computer with a daily build of the file system and you are ready to go :)
[23:18] <Sput> skreech: ah I forgot, I'm running a kernel from git too :)
[23:18] <Sput> not linus' repo though, but airlie's
[23:19]  * skreech hasn't kept up with the Kernel family tree
[23:19] <Sput> I need it for having 3D on ATI and stuff
[23:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: who's Christopher Eberl and do I want to be friends with him?
[23:20] <ScottK> Riddell: The missing epoch on Qt build dep problem it turns out
[23:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: you dont know him, and he is not even using kubuntu so I suppose you do not
[23:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: however if you want to brush up on your information about austrian politics then you might ;)
[23:21] <verbalshadow> apachelogger: thanks for the ubuntu-one client
[23:22] <apachelogger> verbalshadow: yw, though it is not even half way where I want it to be :)
[23:22] <apachelogger> really just a prototype
[23:22]  * ScottK wishes apachelogger would invest the effort in actual Kubuntu stuff.
[23:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: like?
[23:23] <ScottK> Plasma not crashing for starts
[23:23] <ScottK> Soprano uploaded.
[23:23] <txwikinger> apachelogger thinks kubuntu is superfluous
[23:23] <verbalshadow> apachelogger: why did it seem on your blog you were didn't like kioslaves?
[23:24] <txwikinger> Do we have a KDE ubuntu-one client now?
[23:24] <ScottK> You're, of course, free to spend your time how you want, but it seems somewhat contrary to the quality focus of Timelord to spend a bunch of effort on a fancified dropbox clone.
[23:24] <ScottK> Riddell: Uploaded.
[23:24] <apachelogger> verbalshadow: I dont know, maybe because I didnt explain the inner workings of ubuntuone, hence why the code I produced is ultimately necessary to even start work on a kioslave
[23:25] <verbalshadow> is there a good howto for kioslaves
[23:26] <apachelogger> nope
[23:26] <verbalshadow> :(
[23:26]  * txwikinger find KDE lacking utterly dev docu
[23:27] <apachelogger> verbalshadow: you basically just derive kio::slavebase
[23:27] <apachelogger> or, which currently seems more useful for ubuntuone, from kio::forwardingslavebase
[23:28] <apachelogger> which is a convenience class when stacking one slave ontop of another one, which is basically what ubuntuone:/ would be doing ... adding additional information ontop of regular file slave
[23:29] <verbalshadow> apachelogger:do you think it would hard it would be to do?
[23:29] <apachelogger> txwikinger: actually most of the stuff in kdelibs is fairly good documented, there are just no hands on docs
[23:30] <apachelogger> verbalshadow: harder will be to hook it up with the ubuntuone daemon in a way that a) scales to session level (i.e. you almost certainly want a kded module), but at the same time doesnt cause (too much) memory and cpu overhead
[23:31] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Well..I am not sure I ever found that docu#
[23:31] <apachelogger> hence I was thinking to let the kded module handle all the interaction with the ubuntuone daemon and the slave would just be communicating with the kded module
[23:31] <apachelogger> txwikinger: api.kde.org :P
[23:31] <txwikinger> That is no docu :p
[23:32] <txwikinger> That is an api description
[23:32] <apachelogger> go take a look at it
[23:32] <apachelogger> it even features examples at times
[23:33] <txwikinger> wow... that sounds good
[23:33] <apachelogger> well, it certainly is more than no documentation
[23:34]  * apachelogger finds code examples the best kind of documentation anyway ... and there is plenty of that in kde sources :P
[23:38] <amichair> was the ktorrent widget discontinued?
[23:43] <nixternal> ScottK, Riddell, apachelogger:  do you think we could benefit by doing the burndown stuff similar to what rick spencer and them are doing on the gnome side? example: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html
[23:43] <nixternal> in other words, lets get agile! :p
[23:45] <txwikinger> nixternal: we do unit testing now?
[23:46] <verbalshadow_> oy close konsole and that killed my cnetworkmanager connection :( totally forget i had it opened there
[23:46] <Riddell> nixternal: pitti's graph should include our stuff from https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[23:46] <Riddell> maybe we need to talk to him about that
[23:46] <nixternal> Riddell: I saw 2 things from ScottK in one of the other charts that were linked to our Todo
[23:47] <nixternal> nothing else..not in Lucid, or Lucid Alpha 2, which are the 2 reports available for the desktop team
[23:48] <nixternal> Riddell: nevermind
[23:48] <nixternal> I take that back...our stuff is there...just not assigned to anyone...maybe we should take care of that?
[23:48] <nixternal> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html
[23:50] <nixternal> I see why, ScottK is the only one who knows how to use his lp name on the todo list :p
[23:51] <nixternal> though, you have yours right but it doesn't show up...something else is breaking it..I am guessing someone doesn't have their stuff right
[23:54] <nixternal> plus we are a bit vague on our items.... "Package KDE 4.4"
[23:55]  * apachelogger resits talking about the vagueness again
[23:56] <Riddell> nixternal: feel free to work out which version needs done for alpha 2
[23:56] <nixternal> yeah, trying to figure that one out
[23:57] <txwikinger> what is vague about packaging kde4.4?
[23:58] <txwikinger> you might want to have it finer grained though
[23:58] <amichair> shouldn't there be some bug/feature/qa goals on the todo list for kubuntu-developed apps? at the very least, have all bugs triaged and the important ones marked as requiring fixing for lucid?