[00:01] <maco> when i went silent in the middle of the FS convo, i was walking to the grocery store. i spent that walk (and the shopping time) on the phone with a friend who does FS hackery. she doesnt understand why anyone would use ext4 anyway.
[00:04] <txwikinger> why wouldn't they maco?
[00:05] <maco> i said "its fast" she goes "but it ate your data" "but i can boot in under 15 seconds" "but it ate your data"
[00:05] <txwikinger> pretty hungry fela
[00:06] <txwikinger> +l
[00:07] <dtchen> boot speed is important for some people
[00:08] <maco> though at the moment my / is ext3 because im on the laptop that has a broken cd drive and thus cant be easily reinstalled
[00:08] <maco> ya know. when ext4 eats /   ...again
[00:09] <maco> dtchen: and yes, thisd be valerie
[00:10] <nixternal> Riddell: cjwatson fixed their script to pick our stuff up :)
[00:13] <Riddell> nice
[00:14] <dtchen> oh crap, I need to fix my upload checker
[00:20] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, hold my breath and update my netbook
[00:28] <nixternal> hey, I am fixing up our todo list, don't edit :)
[00:29] <DarkwingDuck> KK
[00:29] <DarkwingDuck> Oh, nixternal I still need to send out that email.
[00:30] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: hold off on that
[00:31] <nixternal> I am restructuring some stuff now..then I am going to fire off an email asking for a current report from everyone
[00:31] <DarkwingDuck> ahhh. Okay.
[00:31] <nixternal> Riddell: Nine == kubuntu ninjas on the todo list I take it?
[00:31] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm?
[00:31] <nixternal> s/Nine/Ninja
[00:32] <nixternal> I am fairly stupid today
[00:32] <nixternal> unlike every day :)
[00:32] <Riddell> yes
[00:32] <nixternal> gotcha
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> super cow powers? :D
[00:34] <skreech> nixternal: Actually I think most of the time you are unfairly stupid
[00:34] <DarkwingDuck> I'm about to drop this stupid computer on it's head
[00:34] <nixternal> ok, todo list fixed
[00:34]  * DarkwingDuck wanders off to look at it
[00:35] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: our todo items are now at Kubuntu/Todo/Lucid on that bottom
[00:35] <nixternal> I have redirected Kubuntu/Documentation/Lucid/Todo to current page ^^
[00:36] <nixternal> ScottK: going to work on kdeedu now
[00:37] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: Looks good other then loosing half of the wiki pages links for whe is taking care of the topics
[00:37] <nixternal> yeah...they are easy enough to find
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> Trueish :) What are we looking for as a projected deadline?
[00:41] <DarkwingDuck> because I know that we need time to get it to the translators
[00:42]  * DarkwingDuck mutters at his netbook
[00:43]  * Kubuntiac_ tests Quassel to see if it's behaving...
[00:43] <maco> Kubuntiac_: nope. youre invisible. didnt see that /me message at all
[00:43] <Kubuntiac_> :P
[00:44] <DarkwingDuck> Kubuntiac_: I think it works :D
[00:44] <Kubuntiac_> yathinks?
[00:44] <DarkwingDuck> Kubuntiac_: at times ;)
[00:44] <Kubuntiac_> ouch
[00:45] <DarkwingDuck> hehehe
[00:45] <DarkwingDuck> all I know is that the upgrade to 4.3.80 is being a major pain right now
[00:45] <Kubuntiac_> I try not to do it too much. Bad for the brain, you know.
[00:46] <DarkwingDuck> Kubuntiac_: I hear ya... Plus I work in a job that doesn't require too many brains
[00:46] <Kubuntiac_> :)
[00:46] <nixternal> holy shit...that's all
[00:46] <Kubuntiac_> ??
[00:47] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, without using apt-get upgrade, dist-upgrade what is the one package to upgrade to 4.3.80?
[00:50] <Kubuntiac_> DarkwingDuck: Sorry. Don't know.
[00:50] <nixternal> ScottK: that list-missing list is more than cantor and rocs :)
[00:50] <Kubuntiac_> Anyone have an idea of when we're likely to see a package for xserver-xorg-input-aiptek in Lucid?
[00:51] <nixternal> Kubuntiac_: wrong channel for that question :)  you need to speak with the x people on that one
[00:51] <Kubuntiac_> k thx. I'll ask over there
[00:52] <Kubuntiac_> Why would they be handling our packaging though?
[00:52] <Kubuntiac_> This is something already in Karmic
[00:53] <nixternal> not those x guys...the ubuntu x guys :)
[00:54] <Kubuntiac_> Ahhhhh... of course
[00:54] <Kubuntiac_> Lotta X (wo)men goin' around I guess... ;)
[00:54] <Kubuntiac_> Thx!
[00:56] <DarkwingDuck> argg
[00:56] <verbalshadow_> http://pastebin.ca/1710384 <- ubiquity bug not sure it is kubuntu specific
[00:58] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, lets see if fixing it this way will work...
[01:01] <DarkwingDuck> Nope
[01:01] <DarkwingDuck> hmmm,
[01:17] <nixternal> kdedu @ 180kB/s sucks
[01:17] <nixternal> kdeedu that is
[01:19] <dtchen> beats 5.5 kB/s
[02:11] <nixternal> hrmm, where is phonon from kde at in lucid?
[02:17] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: glad you showed up...eveyrone else is gone :)  what is the deal with phonon in lucid? I can't build anything cuz the phonon is qt and not kde
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> sandsmark is working on a patch for that
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> sandsmark == current phonon maintainer
[02:19] <nixternal> hrmm
[02:19] <nixternal> so how are we building packages then for kde4? ie. kdeedu that I am working on for the 2 new binaries
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> only kdebase-runtime fails to build without kde phonon
[02:20] <nixternal> kdeedu is failing as well
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> and luckily it has a KDE_ENABLE_MULTIMEDIA switch we can throw to castrate the phonon config
[02:20] <nixternal> error: Phonon/MediaObject: No such file or directory
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> anyways, we're pretty much screwed until Qt phonon can be patched to have the new api methods
[02:23] <nixternal> I want to know how ScottK figured out the list-missing on kdeedu
[02:25] <JontheEchidna> figured out?
[02:25] <JontheEchidna> no space between 1 and R :P
[02:27] <skreech> JontheEchidna: are we waiting on that for the Karmic release?
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> dunno what's up with karmic packages; I've not been involved with the backports tbh
[02:28]  * JontheEchidna restarts X, to fiddle with xorg.conf
[02:36] <skreech> Does anyone have skype?
[02:37] <skreech> It's gone pyscho since Qt 4.6
[02:38] <nixternal> hrmm
[02:41] <txwikinger> why does launchpad say that kdewebdev in karmic has version Karmic (4:4.3.2-0ubuntu1): main/kde but apt-cache policy says 4:3.5.10-0ubuntu4?
[02:41] <skreech> It throws out network messages like 6 a second
[02:41] <nixternal> ahhhhhhhhhh, I see with phonon
[02:41] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: I take it the libqt4-phonon* packages were stripped purposely?
[02:42] <nixternal> is the qt/kde phonon work documented anywhere for us? so I can read to figure out why stuff is getting patched
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> yeah, Debian thought that keeping libphonon-* was a better idea so we made those transitional packages
[02:44] <JontheEchidna> well, keeping the name libphonon-*
[02:45] <nixternal> ahh, OK
[02:46] <JontheEchidna> Wanna hear my attempt to explain the phonon mess?
[02:48]  * skreech gets popKorn
[02:50] <JontheEchidna> Ok, here it goes: Currently phonon development takes place in the kdesupport branch in KDE
[02:50] <JontheEchidna> KDE developers, not being distributions, have no trouble compiling phonon from kdesupport since it meets all their needs.
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> Distributions, however, cannot compile libphonon from kdesupport, since they need to compile it in Qt to be able to get many Qt features essential for a distribution.
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> These features include: Any phonon support at all in pure Qt apps, PyQt Phonon bindings, and HTML5 <video> tag support in QtWebKit
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> But since phonon development goes on in kdesupport, KDE finds it fine to use new API not in Qt phonon yet as long as things compile with kdesupport
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> Qt Software hasn't merged in the changes from kdesupport yet, leaving portions of KDE uncompilable as of now
[02:54] <skreech> what's the solution?
[02:54] <JontheEchidna> So we're waiting for the Phonon maintainer to write a patch to bring Qt phonon up to the API as is now in kdesupport
[02:54] <JontheEchidna> or waiting for Qt Software to merge the changes from kdesupport, whichever comes first
[02:54] <skreech> well that's short term
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> Long term solution: Get Qt software to sync with kdesupport more often or tell KDE not to require the new api until it's in Qt
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> and hope they comply
[03:09] <dtchen> that's a mess, indeed
[03:09] <jjesse> evening
[03:18] <DarkwingDuck> to upgrade from Karmic to Lucid alpha 1.. what acommand?
[03:18] <DarkwingDuck> dist-upgrade isn't working
[03:19] <jjesse> don't you do a dist-upgrade -d
[03:20] <DarkwingDuck> that's what I thought...
[03:20] <DarkwingDuck> But it's not digging from Lucid but, karmic-proposed....
[03:22] <skreech> do-release-upgrade -d
[03:23] <nixternal> ScottK: kdeedu done...just fired off an email to the list
[03:27] <DarkwingDuck> skreech: Thanks!
[03:29] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: Doc freeze in March for Lucid... Should we shoot for end of january for doc drafts, review all docs in Feb and iron out minor things in March till the freeze?
[03:29] <skreech> DarkwingDuck: Welcome
[03:30] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: or, is that cutting too close?
[03:30] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: what you think?
[03:35] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: works for me
[03:36] <jjesse> yes
[03:36] <jjesse> sry was away from computer
[03:37] <jjesse> i think i've got a lot of the bugs fixed and committed for the karmic branch so we should e able to do a SRU hopefully?
[03:38] <nixternal> what do we do about translations though? if we upload a new package, it won't have recent translations
[03:38] <nixternal> do we manually upload a tarball I guess?
[03:38] <nixternal> wait a month, then SRU?
[03:38] <nixternal> after the manual upload of the translation templates
[03:39] <jjesse> i guess isn't david panella or whatever his name is involved in the bug?
[03:39] <nixternal> yeah, dpm on irc, but he isn't online right now
[03:39] <jjesse> te translation guy
[03:39] <jjesse> let me ping him on how it is going to work
[03:39] <nixternal> I think he will want us to manually upload the templates
[03:40] <nixternal> that is the only way for them to get translated
[03:40] <jjesse> ok
[03:40] <nixternal> you know how to do that?
[03:40] <nixternal> it is fairly simple...the hard part is finding the damn stuff on LP to upload to
[03:41] <jjesse> well let me try and figure it out and i'll ask for help
[03:41] <jjesse> how does that sound?
[03:41] <nixternal> works for me
[03:41] <nixternal> get_pot.sh is your friend :)
[03:41] <jjesse> ok
[03:41] <nixternal> run that from the docs dir, that will update all of the pot files
[03:42] <jjesse> if we are uploading the docs in january for doc drafts, nixternal and i we  should plan on getting together IRL sometime around then as well
[03:42] <nixternal> then you have to go onto LP and manually upload each pot file for the topic/template
[03:42] <jjesse> thoughts on that?
[03:42] <nixternal> jjesse: works for me
[03:42] <nixternal> jan/feb...whenever you are in town again...which is like every other week I think :)
[03:43] <jjesse> usually
[03:43] <jjesse> we could always meet in benton harlem
[03:43] <nixternal> heh, they don't have Internet
[03:43] <nixternal> how long does it take you to get to bh?
[03:43] <jjesse> 2 hrs?
[03:43] <nixternal> oh wow
[03:43] <jjesse> st. joesph/bh
[03:43] <nixternal> so it is the same distance for me too
[03:44] <nixternal> 2 hrs for me
[03:44] <jjesse> i think 2 hrs to the 96/94 interchange
[03:44] <nixternal> didn't realize gr was that damn far north
[03:44] <jjesse> north and east for you
[03:45] <jjesse> i would take 196 until it merges/ends in 94
[03:45] <nixternal> ahh
[03:45] <jjesse> meant to say 196/94 interchange
[03:45] <jjesse> 96 ends at muskegeon right?
[03:46] <nixternal> I think so
[03:46] <nixternal> iirc it become US31
[03:47] <nixternal> we used to have a beach house up that way
[03:50] <nixternal> shtylman: what needs to be done for the netbook installer slide show?
[03:50] <skreech> a) make up crap
[03:50] <skreech> b) take pictures that make it look real
[03:50] <shtylman> nixternal: well, I still need to make the codebases coexist.. .but from a literature standpoint  yes
[03:51] <skreech> c) have a marketing campaign to make it really sound real
[03:51] <shtylman> see what needs to be different from the kubuntu installer slideshow
[03:51] <skreech> d) make a slideshow
[03:51] <shtylman> and then make the slides for it :)
[03:51] <shtylman> e) profit
[03:51] <skreech> Oh Kubuntu installer Sorry thought we were talking WIndows 7 netbook. Continue!
[03:51] <nixternal> Riddell: per the feedback applet, I can still host that and maintain that...I want to make it so you, or whoever is doing the release can go in and copy over and create an updated questionnaire
[03:51] <jjesse> are there documentation stuff that goes alng with each slide?
[03:51] <nixternal> shtylman: roger that...literature being layed out like the last way?
[03:52] <shtylman> nixternal: yes, as far as I know the format will not change
[03:52] <nixternal> I need to also fix our old literature as well....it needs to smack you in the face :)
[03:52] <nixternal> ok, I will add that to my TODO
[03:52] <shtylman> obviously we are always last to know :) but yea... I think it should be the same format
[03:52] <nixternal> haha
[03:52] <shtylman> if not, I will worry about the transformation
[03:53] <shtylman> which reminds me I need to see if I can get to updating the codebase and making the kubuntu slideshow package this weekend
[03:53] <shtylman> its way over due
[04:16] <skreech> Ugh I shuld learn vi
[04:16] <skreech> how can I insert a hash at the start of the next 12 lines ?
[04:49] <ScottK> nixternal: The burndown thing is funnier than that.  ScottK on LP isn't me.  It's someone else.  I'll have to fix that.
[04:49] <nixternal> oh yeah, that's right
[04:49] <nixternal> I remember going there one time and was like wtf
[04:54] <Darkwing-Netbook> woah... it works
[04:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: I'll need to update the netbook doc with 4.4 now
[04:55] <nixternal> what works?
[04:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> lucid
[04:55] <nixternal> orly
[04:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> finally
[04:55] <nixternal> did you have to do anything funky?
[04:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> start from 9.10
[04:55] <Darkwing-Netbook> it wouldn't update to alpha1 from my older daily build
[04:56] <Darkwing-Netbook> had a problem getting to 4.3.89
[04:56] <Darkwing-Netbook> *4.3.80
[04:56] <Darkwing-Netbook> and 4.4b was being a pain for the update
[04:56] <Darkwing-Netbook> still, I have problems with plasma-netbook auto starting
[04:57] <Darkwing-Netbook> But, I'll update the netbook doc and get one written for the KDE side of the house too nixternal
[04:57] <ScottK> plasma-netbook autostart is on the TODO list.
[04:58] <Darkwing-Netbook> Saw that ScottK )
[04:58] <Darkwing-Netbook> :)
[04:59] <nixternal> ScottK: what needs to be done on that? I was going through looking for tasks on the todo list...but i think some are already taken and the people haven't put their names on it yet
[04:59] <ScottK> nixternal: There is supposed to be an upstream way to pick which plasma you want to run if you have both installed.  We need to understand that and make sure we autostart the right one or the one and only one if only one is installed.
[05:01] <nixternal> oh, that sounds easy enough
[05:01] <ScottK> Not horrible hard, just needs someone to look at it who has all the bits running.  Feel free to take it on.
[05:02] <Darkwing-Netbook> ScottK aside from documentation what else can my non-progamming skills work on for the testing?
[05:02] <ScottK> maco: I'm with valerie on "but it ate your data"
[05:02] <Darkwing-Netbook> Or, rather, what do you need tested?
[05:02] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: Bug triage.
[05:02] <Darkwing-Netbook> kk
[05:03] <Darkwing-Netbook> on bugs.kde or via LP?
[05:03] <ScottK> Since almost all the packages are common between desktop and netbook, we need general triage done for both
[05:03] <ScottK> LP
[05:03] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^^ another pupil for your tender mercies.
[05:03] <maco> ScottK: i think she needs to hack faster on btrfs then :P
[05:03] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: Please join #kubuntu-bugs
[05:04] <Darkwing-Netbook> Okay. ScottK correct me if I'm wrong, packages are teh same for desktop and netbook except for the UI right?
[05:04] <ScottK> Yep.
[05:04] <Darkwing-Netbook> Okay good.
[05:04] <ScottK> That will probably change a bit more in Lucid, but generally still be the case.
[05:06] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: did you read what I asked about the docs?
[05:07] <Darkwing-Netbook> I left my desktop before I got a reply
[05:07] <nixternal> what did you ask?
[05:08] <Darkwing-Netbook> timeline for docs.
[05:08] <nixternal> oh dude, jjesse and I both replied a lot to it :p
[05:08] <nixternal> we agreed
[05:08]  * ScottK hands Darkwing-Netbook irclogs.ubuntu.com
[05:08] <Darkwing-Netbook> yeah, I left my desktop prior to and then my motherboard crashed again
[05:08] <nixternal> then jjesse and I decided we are going to meet up in jan/feb to finalize doc stuff....our meeting place is the half way point between him and I, and it is where I am from originally :)
[05:09] <Darkwing-Netbook> where is that?
[05:09] <Darkwing-Netbook> Wait, NM I wont be able to travel then between Camp-KDE and SCaLE I wont be able to get time off
[05:11] <nixternal> you get 30 days a year
[05:11] <nixternal> I know you aren't burning that much up
[05:11] <nixternal> scale is a weekend anyways
[05:11] <nixternal> !meeting
[05:14] <Darkwing-Netbook> Christmas, week for Camp-KDE... I should have enough. You guys doing a face to face on the docs?
[05:14] <nixternal> yes
[05:14] <nixternal> we only live a few hours a part
[05:14] <Darkwing-Netbook> Where is jjesse at?
[05:14] <Darkwing-Netbook> I knwo your in Chi
[05:14] <nixternal> Grand Rapids, MI
[05:15] <nixternal> I am from Benton Harbor, and that is about the half-way point
[05:15] <nixternal> he drives like an old grandpa, so the extra 30 miles I have to go, I will still beat him there...oh, and I have Chicago traffic to deal with :)
[05:15] <Darkwing-Netbook> Oh Shoot. :D I did some time when I was a kid in Shipshewana, IN
[05:15] <Darkwing-Netbook> Amish Country :P
[05:15] <nixternal> bad boy
[05:15] <maco> school gives me a convenient excuse to ignore seele when she says i should apply for sponsorship to campkde :) i have a presentation that week for senior design
[05:16] <Darkwing-Netbook> There in Northern Indiana... I know that area.
[05:16] <nixternal> I haven't made up my mind yet on campkde, though I don't think I can make it this time
[05:16] <maco> amish? west of PA?
[05:16] <maco> lancaster is Amish Country
[05:16] <Darkwing-Netbook> Yeah, North-East Indiana
[05:16] <Darkwing-Netbook> Huge gathering
[05:17] <nixternal> maco: pfft PA, Michigan and Indiana is the Amish capital
[05:17] <nixternal> though, I purchased a lot of patio furniture from the Amish in PA
[05:17] <nixternal> and in MD
[05:17] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: I have family in that area still... I might be able to pull it off if you wouldn't mind a third face
[05:17] <nixternal> you just can't beat their work
[05:17] <maco> nixternal: my 6th or 7th grade field trip was "go look at amish people"
[05:17] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: +1
[05:18] <nixternal> Darkwing-Netbook: wouldn't mind it at all...it would only be for a day
[05:18] <Darkwing-Netbook> Let me know when
[05:18] <nixternal> will do...hopefully we will know something at least a few weeks in advance :)
[05:18] <Darkwing-Netbook> That would be nice LOL
[05:18] <nixternal> jjesse likes to call you at the last minute and be like "hey, I am in Chicago"
[05:19] <Darkwing-Netbook> Esp since I'll be in Cali till I fly out
[05:19] <Darkwing-Netbook> Cha-Ching
[05:19] <nixternal> skreech likes to do that too
[05:19] <nixternal> ScottK: did you ever get your luggage?
[05:19] <nixternal> I forgot to follow up on that
[05:19] <ScottK> nixternal: I did.  I even blogged about it.
[05:19] <nixternal> who got it to you?
[05:19] <Darkwing-Netbook> I'm gonna make some KDE contacts out here at Camp-KDE. Thank god I like like 4 miles away
[05:20] <Darkwing-Netbook> live like rather
[05:20] <ScottK> nixternal: http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/10/ubuntu_community_1_united_airl.html
[05:20] <nixternal> I am reading it now :)
[05:21] <nixternal> good, so skiquel actually did something :p
[05:21] <nixternal> besides run my beloved LUG into the ground
[05:22] <skreech> nixternal: And then you don't come to the airport to feed me Waffles!!!
[05:22] <nixternal> we had all of chicago on point... ChiPy, ChiPerlMongers, Ubuntu Chicago
[05:22] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:23]  * skreech should come and stay with Darkwing-Netbook 
[05:23] <nixternal> dude, I made Riddell sleep in the airport cuz I fell asleep waiting for him to call me when he got here...I just figured he would be here for a couple of hours
[05:23] <nixternal> nope, he was in that bad boy all night :(
[05:23] <skreech> So was I
[05:23] <nixternal> oh, I thought you were temporary
[05:23] <Darkwing-Netbook> skreech: I can offer a couch, cooked meals and hangout time with my 3 kids :D
[05:24] <nixternal> skreech is sad, he isn't organizing this camp kde
[05:24] <nixternal> how tough must it be to actually live and work in jamaica?
[05:24] <nixternal> I think I would move there for work :)
[05:24] <Darkwing-Netbook> um, yeah
[05:25] <skreech> Yeah :)
[05:25] <nixternal> I am waiting for that perfect 'work from hom job no matter where you are at' so I can finally move to Mexico :)
[05:26] <skreech> Oh Gamaral made you that offer as well?
[05:26] <nixternal> what offer?
[05:26] <nixternal> am I missing offers now
[05:26] <Darkwing-Netbook> skreech: Let me know. This way I can keep the wiff in the loop...
[05:30] <skreech> No I can't make it to Camp KDE this year
[05:30] <skreech> :-(
[05:30] <Darkwing-Netbook> Hehe
[05:31] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal? Offer open... I'm also 15 miles from mexico... you can look up realestate...
[05:32] <nixternal> Cabo San Lucas Mexico
[05:33] <Darkwing-Netbook> maybe an hour/hour and a half AFTER the border crossing wait.
[05:41] <nixternal> Darkwing-Netbook: you aren't allowed to go to TEE JAY though
[05:42] <Darkwing-Netbook> nixternal: Yes I am now. They changed the rules. All I have to have is a 'buddy' and al long as it's under 48 hours I don't have to have a passport just a birth cirt and ID card.
[05:42] <Darkwing-Netbook> and I have to write a chit.
[05:43] <nixternal> oh wow
[05:43] <nixternal> I got busted for going over in a stolen rental car
[05:43] <nixternal> though I didn't get busted for a stolen rental car
[05:44] <Darkwing-Netbook> LOL
[05:45] <nixternal> TJ is so nasty though...I wouldn't ever go back to that place
[05:45] <nixternal> and never go on the 1st or the 15th
[05:47] <Darkwing-Netbook> Oh I know.
[05:47] <Darkwing-Netbook> But, to get to cabo we need to speed through LOL
[05:47] <Darkwing-Netbook> hmm, I wonder hwo this order request will go with shipit.kubuntu lol
[05:48] <ScottK> Darkwing-Netbook: Just tell them you're from the Chicago loco team.  You'll have CDs in no time.
[05:48] <Darkwing-Netbook> LOL
[05:48] <Darkwing-Netbook> I told them I was the Kubuntu contact for Camp-KDE LOL
[05:49] <Darkwing-Netbook> I'm sure they will laugh their butts off. I ordered CDs for Camp-KDE and SCaLE... all 100 of them :s
[05:51] <skreech> Of which I gave out 5
[05:51] <skreech> Now I'll just order 100 more....
[05:52] <Darkwing-Netbook> hehehe.
[05:52] <Darkwing-Netbook> I'm sure I'll get some hate mail or, they will just ignore me.
[05:53] <Darkwing-Netbook> Ok, have to be at work in 7 hours... must get some sleep
[05:53] <Darkwing-Netbook> Night guys
[05:59] <skreech> night
[07:58] <apparle> hello guys.... where should I start for contributing to kubuntu
[08:11] <markey> good start: fixing up the borked USB stuff
[08:11] <markey> though, leaving from IRC doesn't exactly help
[08:12] <markey> anyone got a package for Thunderbird 3?
[08:12] <markey> the review from Ryan Paul sounds impressive
[08:12] <markey> wanna try that
[08:13] <markey> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/12/review-thunderbird-3-hatches-with-tabs-and-enhanced-search.ars
[08:15] <freeflying> markey: mozilla-daily-build ppa
[08:16] <markey> cool, thx :)
[08:25] <markey> erm
[08:25] <markey> p   thunderbird-3.1                                                                   - mail/news client with RSS and integrated spam filter support
[08:25] <markey> 3.1 even?
[08:25] <markey> I'm confused
[08:25] <markey> there is 3.0, and 3.1
[08:25] <markey> which is more stable?
[08:26] <markey> 3.0.1 I guess
[08:27] <markey> (latest stable, according to their site)
[08:27] <markey> let's try that
[08:30] <markey> erm
[08:30] <markey> "About Shredder"
[08:30] <markey> why is Thunderbird called Shredder (of all things)?
[08:30] <markey> :)
[08:30] <markey> bit confusing
[08:35] <skreech> markey: It's to offset the Splinter
[08:36] <markey> hehe
[08:50] <Tonio_> hi there
[08:50] <skreech> hi
[08:50] <Tonio_> just switch to lucid in order to start working on it...
[08:50] <Tonio_> I noticed a strange issue with X...
[08:51] <Tonio_> when I login to kde the first time, X crashes, then I login again and it works
[08:51] <Tonio_> and also I have no effects enabled
[08:51] <Tonio_> is this common for an intel chip ?
[08:52] <amichair> Tonio_: the double-login issue is known, not sure what the status is
[08:54] <Tonio_> amichair: lkk
[08:55] <Tonio_> I'll check for the effects :)
[08:55] <hunger> Tonio_: X is kind of unstable here, too. Crashes even when starting a failsafe session:-( After a couple of login attempts it starts KDE fine.
[08:55] <Tonio_> hunger: oki ;)
[08:55] <hunger> Tonio_: I thought that was due to the ATI KMS drivers I am using for the first time:-)
[08:56] <hunger> 2.6.32 is the first kernel to support my card, so I got rid of the fglrx stuff (which won't build with that kernel anyway).
[08:57] <Tonio_> hunger: got the same problem with an intel GMA 4500HD
[09:31] <ghostcube> morning
[09:33] <amichair> morning ghostcube
[09:33] <ghostcube> :)
[09:33] <ghostcube> sup ?
[09:33] <ghostcube> firefox is so lame sometimes o.o
[09:36] <Tonio_> rgreening: ping ?
[09:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was thinking about wine... do we still want some wine integration in kubuntu ? cause in case I found this : http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/q4wine?content=85751
[09:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: tested and approved
[09:38] <Tonio_> it can even bind your Qt settings to your wine session for fonts and colors :)
[10:26] <ghostcube> Tonio_: oh thats cool
[10:37] <Tonio_> ghostcube: yup, qt-apps has some interesting things on it ;)
[10:37] <ghostcube> ;) cool go on find some more :)
[10:38] <ghostcube> hehe
[10:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: worth a package
[10:45] <Lure> Tonio_: hi - have time to add endorsment to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaRenko/DigikamKipiPluginsApplication
[10:45] <Lure> apachelogger: ^^^
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: my opinion too
[10:46] <Tonio_> let's go
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: count me in starting now, I finally got some free time in the next weeks/month...
[10:48]  * apachelogger recommends Lure to hand kubuntu.org urlies when he wants to be endorsed by apachelogger :P
[10:48] <Lure> apachelogger: ;-)
[10:49]  * Lure never gor used to wiki.kubuntu.org ;-)
[10:49] <Lure> got
[10:49] <Lure> Tonio_: great to have you on board for Lucid
[10:50] <Tonio_> Lure: done :)
[10:50] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah, new job, new girlfriend, I needed to take a break really
[10:51] <Tonio_> but... I have to come back to things I love :)
[10:51] <Tonio_> Lure: that's the way I do to stay motivated on the long term :)
[10:51] <Tonio_> Lure: without those breaks I suspect I would have gone some day, burning myself :)
[10:51] <Tonio_> let's go with q4wine packaging...
[10:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will also package recordmenow, seems a very good kde4 app, and very usefull in corporate env imho
[10:52] <Lure> Tonio_: sure - new baby daughter also kept me away from kubuntu for most of karmic
[10:52] <Tonio_> Lure: that's life
[10:52] <Tonio_> Lure: what is really nice is that the community grown in the last year, so that getting rid of kubuntu for a moment isn't much of a problem now
[10:53] <Tonio_> in the past, it was, I think
[10:53] <Lure> the good thing is kubuntu is always there with great community, so it is easy to come back ;-)
[10:53] <Tonio_> Lure: yep
[10:53]  * apachelogger really used to be better on that endorsment writing
[10:53] <Tonio_> the good point is that if I don't do something, I know there are people that can and will do it, probably even better than I
[10:53] <Lure> yep, lots of enthusiastic people
[10:54] <Lure> and I like the Timelord move: we needed some positive story to reposition our marketing a bit
[10:54] <Tonio_> and looking at kubuntu karmic review, I considered I could have been a problem for the distro :)
[10:54] <Tonio_> first time I'm not there for a very long time, best release ever :)
[10:54] <Tonio_> haha, that makes you think :)
[10:54] <apachelogger> save fail
[10:55]  * apachelogger just used brower-back to leave preview because he was working with twiki all morning -.-
[10:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: we have a package of recorditnow already
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: hu ?
[10:55] <Riddell> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/recorditnow
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: ho it isn't in the archives yet.... yeah I have to get the kubnutu status, might take a week or so
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: one thing important to me, what are the plans for the kubnutu default web browser ?
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect rekonq ?
[10:58] <Tonio_> Lure: shouldn't we get rif of the digikam configuration dialog ?
[10:58] <Riddell> it's an LTS, not a good time to be changing browser
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, except if the web browser is an issue imho, but that's just my opinion
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: but I agree it needs to be evaluated as much as possible
[10:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: our users don't use konq anyway...
[10:59] <Tonio_> that reduces the impact of the change, don't you think ?
[10:59] <Tonio_> even for an LTS
[10:59] <Riddell> maybe webkitkde will be ready
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: hopefully
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think rekonq dev also works on that
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: but switching from khtml to webkitkde in konq is probably more risky than a new web browser
[11:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: there will probably be lots of bugs in konq's config and so on...
[11:01] <Tonio_> Lure: we could go with a default configuration pointing digikam catalog to the "picture" xdg dir I think...
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: yep
[11:02] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll try to fix this correctly
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: I tried to persuade upstream, but it seams gilles likes it :-(
[11:02] <Tonio_> Lure: nevermind, that what distros are made for :) implementing stuf ;)
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: and it is in RC now (string freeze), so it will not change for 1.0.0 final
[11:03] <Tonio_> Lure: great
[11:03] <Lure> Riddell: if we would get ack from u-release to get digikam 1.0.0 final to karmic-updates, what would that mean for translations?
[11:04] <Lure> Riddell: I suspect langpackgs would mess things up...
[11:04] <Tonio_> I still have to fix THE qt bug I want to...
[11:04]  * Lure thinks that it is unlikely we will get approval
[11:04] <Tonio_> one year tracking that little thing
[11:04] <Tonio_> no real success so far :/
[11:04] <Tonio_> I'm so close.... for 6 month...
[11:05] <Tonio_> I also have to make a point with rgreening about the samba sharing stuff
[11:12] <amichair> Tonio_: what's THE qt bug?
[11:15] <Lure> apachelogger: problem with more involved: hard to split limited time between kde and kubuntu ;-)
[11:15] <Tonio_> amichair: drag and drop files break cursor
[11:15] <Tonio_> amichair: check in dolphin
[11:15] <Lure> apachelogger: and I like to code, so currently kde is winning, but that is win for kubuntu too ;-)
[11:15] <Tonio_> amichair: I have an idea of how to fix, and I did
[11:16] <Tonio_> but that introduces new bugs...
[11:16] <amichair> what do u mean 'creak cursor'?
[11:16] <amichair> break
[11:16] <Tonio_> break sorry
[11:16] <amichair> no need to apologize for my typos :-)
[11:17] <amichair> but I don't see a bug
[11:17] <Riddell> Lure: I don't see pitti approving a new release for -updates
[11:21] <apachelogger> Lure: just saying :P
[11:21] <Tonio_> amichair: what when you drag a file in dolphin ?
[11:21] <apachelogger> can someone answer the kubuntu performance mail on the list?
[11:21] <Tonio_> amichair: don't you switch back to the black cursor ?
[11:21]  * apachelogger cannot resist applying sarcasm on that mail
[11:22] <Tonio_> amichair: I do, and for... 4 years now :)
[11:22] <amichair> Tonio_: oh, I think I see it. black cursor + little icon moving along
[11:22] <apachelogger> Tonio_: yet no one bothered to investigate
[11:22]  * apachelogger is actually wondering if it also happens on distros other than buntu
[11:23] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I know :) and I have a working fix.... just that it... segfaults sometimes :)
[11:23] <Tonio_> apachelogger: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-6669
[11:23]  * apachelogger starts 3rd try to write a project background
[11:23] <apachelogger> oh
[11:24] <apachelogger> that reminds me on my infamous reallocateMemory() functions for my C class :D
[11:24] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I could post my fix explaining what it fixes and what it breaks.... maybe that would help someone to fix the fix
[11:24] <apachelogger> my tutor got all annoyed by how much I can produce for just that :D
[11:24] <Tonio_> incomplete fix is better than nothing :)
[11:25] <apachelogger> Tonio_: yeah, then at least someone can use that and fix the segfaults instead of rewriting it altogether
[11:25] <Tonio_> yup
[11:27] <apachelogger> you know, from having read loads and loads of opinons about the vision and background of kubuntu it would appear that osx is considered at least barable, usually to explain either of the 2 kubuntu gets put into relation with windows, gnome, debian or other kde distros
[11:27] <apachelogger> never ever osx though
[11:28] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I don't get your point there :)
[11:28] <Tonio_> apachelogger: what the problem with osx ? ;)
[11:28] <apachelogger> yes
[11:28] <apachelogger> well
[11:28] <Tonio_> apachelogger: appart from working and being stable ?
[11:28] <apachelogger> there is none
[11:28] <apachelogger> i.e. kubuntu <= osx
[11:29] <Tonio_> oh yes, definately
[11:29] <Tonio_> well it depends on what
[11:29] <apachelogger> either that or no one considers osx competition
[11:29] <Tonio_> for experienced users, osx can be a nightmare
[11:29] <amichair> the new kde sliding button control thing is pretty wierd
[11:29] <Tonio_> but when it comes to polishing stuff, it's unbeatable
[11:29] <Tonio_> and that's what people see first
[11:29] <apachelogger> you mean breaking stuff
[11:29] <apachelogger> sec
[11:30] <apachelogger> http://rixstep.com/1/2/20090917,01.shtml
[11:30] <amichair> I thought 4.4 was supposed to finally bring stability to the kingdom, not more innovation
[11:30] <apachelogger> the most interesting aspect of that might be that the UI still allows file permissions to be set
[11:31] <apachelogger> so you can set file permissions, but they have no effect I suppose
[11:31] <apachelogger> anyhow
[11:32] <Tonio_> apachelogger: crap, indeed :)
[11:32] <apachelogger> Tonio_: doing some more interpretation I might end up stating that Kubuntu is about quantity not quality
[11:32] <apachelogger> compare to windows (quantity) and mac (quality)
[11:32] <apachelogger> since windows is used to compare kubuntu with, and mac is not, I could think that we are indeed not striving for quality but reaching the masses
[11:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: s/kubuntu/kde/ ?
[11:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: kde tends to try to offer the maximum options, config dialogs etc...
[11:33] <apachelogger> not because of that
[11:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: not always considering the added value or quality of it
[11:33] <apachelogger> I do not htink that the option paradigm is mutually exclusive with the usability paradigm
[11:33] <Tonio_> kk
[11:33] <apachelogger> but
[11:33] <amichair> Tonio_: I agree with that
[11:34] <apachelogger> as you said, osx is all about polish and quality and niceness
[11:34] <Tonio_> it's more a matter of what is the target
[11:34] <Tonio_> osx doesn't want to compete with windows
[11:34] <Tonio_> we try to
[11:34] <apachelogger> whereas kubuntu does not seem to be, and does not seem to want to go there
[11:34] <Tonio_> am I correct ?
[11:34] <apachelogger> aight
[11:34] <Tonio_> kk
[11:34] <apachelogger> I am not sure that is a good thing though
[11:34] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I agree with you
[11:34] <Tonio_> and I think we should consider polishing stuff
[11:35] <Tonio_> apachelogger: note that a 6 month release cycle might be considered a problem in the polishing area
[11:35] <Tonio_> consider the time spent between windows 7 beta and stable version
[11:35] <Tonio_> and same for OSX...
[11:35] <Tonio_> the beta -> stable time was between 6 to 12 month
[11:35] <apachelogger> not necessarily, we would just have to cut down on new software
[11:35] <Lure> Riddell: will discuss with him anyhow, but I expect the same answer
[11:35] <Tonio_> that's what polishing takes
[11:36] <apachelogger> Tonio_: yeah
[11:36] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but yeah, too much svn components on kubuntu anytime
[11:36] <apachelogger> Tonio_: possibly we need to change our own view there
[11:36] <Tonio_> I agree this is something we should consider fixing
[11:36] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I totally agree
[11:36] <apachelogger> from release based to LTS release based
[11:36] <apachelogger> like ubuntu does seem to do it
[11:36] <Tonio_> true
[11:36] <apachelogger> regular releases just seem to be steps towards LTS (beta if you will)
[11:37] <apachelogger> which is a more sensible approach IMHO
[11:37] <apachelogger> trying to do kickass releases in a 6 month cycle is quite demanding
[11:38] <Tonio_> yup
[11:38] <apachelogger> whereas usable every 6 months and kickass every 24 months is a more sound approach
[11:38] <amichair> isn't KDE's aim for innovation rather than quality a problem?
[11:38] <apachelogger> amichair: innovation and quality are not mutually exclusive either IMHO :P
[11:38] <Tonio_> amichair: hum, well it depends what they expect on the long term
[11:38] <amichair> apachelogger: not in general... but in KDE is seems to be the case
[11:39] <apachelogger> only KDE 4 :P
[11:39] <Tonio_> amichair: when you go from kde3 to kde4, quality ain't of any subject
[11:39] <Tonio_> it has to go, work, and be finished
[11:39] <Tonio_> amichair: when you see the speed improvement between 4.2 and 4.4, I consider this quality
[11:39] <Tonio_> they seem to tend to go that way
[11:40] <Tonio_> but yeah, kde4 might not be considered "finished" before 4.5, eventually
[11:40] <Tonio_> there are still lots of stuff that need to be done... like akonadi transition
[11:40] <amichair> Tonio_: when I see things crashing more, and plasma-desktop taking up 800MB of memory... 'quality' is not the word that comes to mind
[11:40] <Tonio_> like the network manager backend etc...
[11:41] <Tonio_> amichair: using ram isn't bad
[11:41] <Tonio_> amichair: look at windows 7 :)
[11:41] <Tonio_> probably the best OS out there right now
[11:41] <Tonio_> fast, and stable, but using lots of ram
[11:41] <Tonio_> amichair: ram is there to be used
[11:41] <amichair> Tonio_: how is it not bad? it means other apps start swapping, and the entire desktop experience grinds down to win 3.11 times...
[11:42]  * apachelogger still doesnt think that plasma leak is caused by plasma but the graphics stack
[11:42] <Tonio_> amichair: not at all
[11:42] <apachelogger> amichair: now, no foul talking about win 3.11!
[11:42] <Tonio_> amichair: you can consider keeping datas in ram as long as other apps don't need it
[11:42]  * apachelogger loved win3 :)
[11:42] <apachelogger> the first windows I ever killed
[11:43] <Tonio_> amichair: that's good memory management
[11:43] <apachelogger> made me go back to dos
[11:43] <Tonio_> amichair: with good ram management, you would tend to have 0 swap
[11:43] <Tonio_> and 0 bytes of free mem :)
[11:45] <Tonio_> q4wine package mostly done
[11:46] <Tonio_> amichair: kubuntu works correctly on a 512megs of ram box
[11:46] <Tonio_> which means plasma is just using depending the ram available
[11:47] <Tonio_> amichair: and as apachelogger said, X is more or less the problem there
[12:07] <amik> so if we want to go for a polished kubuntu, where would we start?
[12:08] <apachelogger> with defining what polished exactly means
[12:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ping ping
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: for me it starts with having good eyes
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: geeks don't have this :)
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: this broken cursor issue wasn't seen by many people
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: also we have a formated usage of the computer
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: therefore clicking the bad place at the bad moment isn't something we would do
[12:13]  * apachelogger saw it complained about it, didnt get to fix it and stopped caring :P
[12:13] <Tonio_> amichair: we need end users testing
[12:14] <Tonio_> amichair: real end users :)
[12:14] <Tonio_> amichair: we need to remove anything that can be done from the kmenu
[12:14] <Tonio_> for example
[12:15] <Tonio_> I can see there "akonadi tray utility"
[12:15] <Tonio_> should I need an entry in the kmenu for that ?
[12:15] <Tonio_> I don't think so
[12:15] <Tonio_> lots of things like this should get fixed
[12:16] <Tonio_> hundreds to be honnest
[12:17] <Tonio_> why should kdebluetooth be in the menu too ? no need for that, I want it started in the tray, nothing else
[12:17] <Tonio_> cleaning the mess the menu has become is really something we should change :)
[12:23] <apachelogger> mess?
[12:27] <Tonio_> apachelogger: to many useless entries there
[12:27] <Tonio_> by far too many
[12:30] <apachelogger> agreed
[12:30] <apachelogger> though I find app menus utterly useless anyway :P
[12:48] <rgreening> Tonio_: hey
[12:49] <rgreening> Tonio_: what point wrt samba :)
[12:49] <Tonio_> rgreening: I think you starting the code right ? at least I heard about that :)
[12:50] <rgreening> Yeah, I have the spec written, and have documented the code changes that are required and have poked around the code a bit (even got a basic tab to show up - pagedialog)
[12:51] <rgreening> Tonio_: see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidFileSharing
[12:53] <Tonio_> rgreening: nice
[12:54] <Tonio_> rgreening: if you have the basic tab, then I can start helping
[12:54] <Tonio_> rgreening: is the code somewhere ?
[12:54] <rgreening> So I think we are in good shape to make this happen this cycle.... no code/patch ready to upload yet... I'll ping you as soon as I have something ready to upload as a patch....
[12:57] <Tonio_> rgreening: nice
[12:57] <Tonio_> rgreening: about the samba actions and commands, I already have and know what to do, so please ping :)
[12:57] <Tonio_> rgreening: I already saw the spec fyi :)
[12:58] <rgreening> ok. cool
[13:17] <jussi01> so doesnyone know if there was an automounting verion of the device notifier?
[13:17] <rgreening> Riddell: this may be interesting for plymouth + kdm (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=475890)
[13:18] <Riddell> jussi01: I think something was ment to happen for 4.4 but I'm not sure it got in
[13:18] <Riddell> rgreening: mm, plymouth, I just love large architectural changes for LTSs
[13:18] <rgreening> hah
[13:18] <rgreening> ya
[13:19] <rgreening> so we really need to keep on top of this one, otherwise our statup is gonna look like shite
[13:24] <rgreening> Riddell: Here's the KDM upstream bug for Plymouth->Kdm smooth transition...https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206089
[13:24] <rgreening> I don't think it's on anyones radar. Maybe agateau or someone could help us with that and get it upstream?
[13:25]  * agateau reads backlog
[13:25] <rgreening> :)
[13:26] <rgreening> it's a Dx experience related piece of work  IMO...
[13:26] <rgreening> brb
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: pong pong
[13:29] <agateau> I may be able to help, assuming I get assigned some time to it, my plate is already quite filled :/
[13:33] <amichair> Tonio_: sorry, was out a bit -
[13:34] <amichair> Tonio_: I think a first step is caring. there are already lots of open bugs of the sort that ruin the polish, and they just sit there for several releases...
[13:38] <amichair> Tonio_: there are plenty of users to report things. I think having many glitches discourages ppl from reporting, because why bother... but everything was kept in top shape, any little glitch would stand out and more reports would come in
[13:49] <Tonio_> amichair: yup
[13:50] <JontheEchidna> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218064
[13:51] <amichair> JontheEchidna: looks like our friend
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> yep
[13:53] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I don't think it happens when systemtray plasmoid is missing - any containment (even with no applets) prevents the crash. but no big difference.
[13:54] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I think it just happens whenever a default desktop needs to be generated.
[13:55] <amichair> I must say, a method which ends with a single shot timeout to call another method 1 second later, always looks like something isn't quite right with it.
[13:55] <ScottK> sebas: Would you be able to help me with an armel porting problem with 4.3.80?  Our armel guy, NCommander, doesn't seem to be around. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/4:4.3.80-0ubuntu6/+build/1386983/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.kde4libs_4:4.3.80-0ubuntu6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[13:56] <Riddell> revu needed http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/freespacenotifier
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> oh neat, mck122 actually got it ported
[14:00] <freeflying> Riddell: missed debian/watch :)
[14:00] <Riddell> freeflying: it doesn't have releases so hard to watch
[14:01] <JontheEchidna> oh, maybe that's not mck's port...
[14:01] <JontheEchidna> still, pretty cool
[14:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's lubos finally putting it upstream
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> nice
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: clever way to get the localization stuff in too, if only it didn't have to bring in cdbs
[14:03] <sebas> ScottK: make line 235 in kdelibs/plasma/private/applethandle.cpp this:
[14:03] <sebas> g.setColorAt(qMax(qreal(0), opaquePoint), transparencyColor);
[14:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: it doesn't bring in cdbs, it uses debhelper
[14:03] <sebas> it's already fixed in trunk
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: oh, you're right
[14:04] <ScottK> sebas: Thanks.  Will you commit it upstream.
[14:04] <ScottK> Riddell: Can you try sebas's fix in the armel porter box so we can see if there are more without one upload to the archive per armel bug?
[14:04] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna, ScottK: The MOTU meeting is about to start
[14:05] <ScottK> Quintasan: OK.
[14:05] <amichair> JontheEchidna: btw I saw in our patch that the systemtray applet is created twice... unrelated to the crash, but doesn't look right
[14:05] <JontheEchidna> amichair: yeah I saw that too. It was my first suspicion
[14:05] <freeflying> ScottK: so you don't have any arm machine can be accessed?
[14:06] <ScottK> freeflying: No, I don't.
[14:06] <hunger> Will nepomuk finally work on lucid out of the box?
[14:06] <Quintasan> hunger: quite possible
[14:06] <sebas> ScottK: it's already committed
[14:06] <sebas> In fact I just c/p'ed that line
[14:06] <ScottK> sebas: Excellent.
[14:06] <hunger> Quintasan: Great! Thanks!
[14:06] <sebas> the usual double/qreal mixup
[14:07] <sebas> There was email on the plasma list to pay more attention to this
[14:10] <Quintasan> apachelogger: https://launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/ppa/+packages :/
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ack on freespacenotifier here
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> builds perfectly
[14:14] <rgreening> hmm... can't seem to get ubiquity to launch from latest daily build... shtylman?
[14:18] <rgreening> Riddell: it seems ubiquity requires sudo but it isn't set to launch this way. Is this a policykit/kauth question?
[14:20] <Riddell> rgreening: it's a known problem in alpha 1, I havn't looked into it
[14:21] <Riddell> debfx: some comments http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kmozillahelper
[14:21] <rgreening> ok.
[14:21] <Riddell> ScottK: I wonder if I can remember how to access it
[14:22] <ScottK> Riddell: If you can't, let me know and I'll just upload.
[14:23] <Quintasan> Lex79: \o
[14:23] <Lex79> Quintasan: \o
[14:24] <Riddell> ScottK: ~kubuntu-dev is a member of ubuntu-dev, so ~k-ds can upload to motu I think(?)
[14:25] <refic> hmm.. nouveau's going into 2.6.33
[14:25] <ScottK> Riddell: No, ubuntu-dev doesn't give upload rights.
[14:26] <ScottK> The per-package uploaders are in that team for voting rights.
[14:26] <ScottK> (it got changed earlier this year)
[14:26] <Riddell> ScottK: ~motu gives upload rights?
[14:26] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.
[14:27] <freeflying> ScottK: so we don't have uploads right now?
[14:27] <Riddell> I always confuse those
[14:27] <ScottK> freeflying: kubuntu-dev can upload anything in the kubuntu package set.
[14:27] <ScottK> Except for JontheEchidna, all the current kubuntu-dev are also core-dev so it doesn't come up much.
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: plasma-desktop needs a better dependency than just being part of the seed (think people installing from the kde metapackages rather than kubuntu-desktop) How would you feel about the kdebase-workspace metapackage depending on plasma-desktop | plasna-netbook?
[14:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's exactly what I'd been thinking about.
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> Neat
[14:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: What I'd like to do next is prepare a mail to the Debian folks to describe what we've done, how it's incomplete, and try to reach a consensus.
[14:35] <ScottK> Riddell: I see there are a couple of kde4libs bug fixes waiting in bzr for upload, so unless you think you'll have the armel porter box sorted soonish, I think perhaps I ought to just upload.
[14:37] <Riddell> ScottK: I found it
[14:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you please head over to google docs, check out my fancy management doc and tell me if the project background description makes any sense at all>
[14:37] <Riddell> it's a PPA not a box I have command line access to
[14:37] <ScottK> Cool.
[14:37] <ScottK> Even easier.
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: after Quintasan's meeting, yes
[14:37] <apachelogger> kk
[14:45] <Riddell> I'd have thought 3 was quorum for motu council
[14:46] <Quintasan> that was tough one :)
[14:46] <apachelogger> now that didnt went too bad, did it? :)
[14:46] <Riddell> Quintasan: well done on not cracking under the pressure :)
[14:47] <Quintasan> :D
[14:47] <Quintasan> I guess I can go for my stick and poke apachelogger to help me sort out what's with missing cdbs
[14:48] <Quintasan> ;P
[14:48] <apachelogger> I told you :P
[14:48] <apachelogger> both the amarok and kde stack share common build helper stuff
[14:48] <ghostcube> o.o
[14:48] <apachelogger> which is either a seperate pkg amarok-nighly-tools or amarok-nightly-cdbs
[14:48] <apachelogger> cant remember which
[14:48] <apachelogger> both should be living somewhere in the neon src tree though
[14:49] <apachelogger> cdbs probably in distros/ubuntu/ and tools in tools/ (from latter at least you can build a src pkg using a script in scripts/)
[14:49] <apachelogger> for cdbs a debuild should suffice
[14:52] <Quintasan> apachelogger: that solves everything :P
[14:54] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for apachelogger
[14:54]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to apachelogger.
[14:56] <Quintasan> Riddell: thanks for giving me access to the computer, now it will go a lot faster :)
[14:57] <Riddell> Quintasan: note my IP may change at any time
[14:57] <amichair> is there anyone in charge of usability issues/guidelines in KDE?
[14:57] <Riddell> that would be seele
[14:58] <Riddell> who's currently locked away into academia
[14:59] <amichair> Riddell: in which channels can seele be found?
[14:59] <Riddell> amichair: here if she's online
[14:59] <neversfelde> is someone alread working on amarok beta?
[14:59] <Riddell> else e-mail celeste @kde.org
[15:00] <amichair> Riddell: thanks. some of the new 4.4 gui features just don't make much sense usability-wise...
[15:01] <amichair> I hope they catch/fix them in time for release
[15:01] <ghostcube> 4.4 beta 1 in backports so far ?
[15:01] <ghostcube> or still buidling?
[15:03] <Riddell> ghostcube: you know where to look
[15:03] <ghostcube> :P iam lazy you know hehe but i will do
[15:04] <ghostcube> ok not there thx Riddell heh
[15:05] <amichair> is there a known issue list for tracking alpha issues, or just using regular lp reports?
[15:06] <Riddell> amichair: regular bug reports
[15:07] <amichair> Riddell: k, thanks
[15:07] <neversfelde> bug #492899  needs a sponsor
[15:07] <Riddell> ScottK: kde4libs uploaded to ARM PPA, remind me to check on it in a couple of hours if don't get back before then
[15:07] <neversfelde> and I'll start with amarok, I think my netbook is able to compile it in < 10h
[15:07] <rgreening> Riddell: did we drop the notification patches for Lucid? i cant remember if that's what we decided to do...
[15:08] <rgreening> Riddell, shtylman: ubiquity if run with sudo, doesn't properly restart after clicking restart.
[15:08] <Riddell> rgreening: the notification patches are upstream
[15:09] <rgreening> hmm... Riddell, I don't see the option in the systray to enable/disable them .. have they moved somewhere else to configure?
[15:09] <Riddell> rgreening: I should say the common freedesktop bits got usptream, the ayatana style noticiations got dropped
[15:10] <rgreening> oh... they were pretty
[15:10] <Riddell> rgreening: ayatana style noticiations may get done as a separate package if agateau gets time
[15:10] <rgreening> ok. cool. they were much nicer to look at
[15:10] <rgreening> :)
[15:10] <agateau> Riddell: rgreening: http://gitorious.org/colibri
[15:10] <agateau> only missing kcm
[15:11] <Riddell> cor
[15:11] <rgreening> cool
[15:11] <maco> i'm with rod
[15:11] <maco> i use the ayatana notifications
[15:12] <rgreening> :P
[15:14] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: taking a look at tic-tac-toe
[15:15] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: thank you
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: uploaded, thanks for your contribution
[15:28] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: thanks
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> no prob
[15:33] <rgreening> wow, kde 4.4 is buggy
[15:33] <rgreening> :)
[15:34] <Riddell> just like a beta ought to be
[15:35] <rgreening> haha
[15:35] <rgreening> I like the "swallowing" plasmoids
[15:38] <ScottK> Riddell: Last time it failed almost 7 hours into the build, so no rush for checking the armel PPA build.
[15:46] <Riddell> ScottK: how does this look for keep tech board happy for an upstream policy? http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Minor_Point_Release_Policy/Draft
[15:49] <ScottK> Riddell: I'd add something about regression free.  I think fixing minor bugs is OK as long as it is a safe fix.
[15:51] <zorael> I'm getting a bug where it takes precisely 30 or 60 seconds after I unplug the AC adapter from my laptop to when I get the plasma notification that it's been removed. The same happens upon attaching the adapter. Should I do ubuntu-bug kdebase-workspace or just take it to bugs.kde.org right away? (Karmic, 4.3.4)
[15:51] <Riddell> hmm, not convinced about this for default wallpaper http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/wallpapers/Quadros/contents/images/
[15:51] <rgreening> Riddell: "therefor be" -> "therefore be"
[15:52] <Riddell> zorael: you should proabably check when hal or udev picks that up
[15:52] <rgreening> Riddell: OMG that wallpaper is hideous
[15:53] <zorael> Riddell: The icon in the Power Management widget picks it up instantly, but any further action is delayed
[15:53] <Riddell> yes, I think I prefered my previous wallpaper
[15:53] <rgreening> Riddell: we really should take advantage of upstream branding and/or kiwii to get some kubuntu loking stuff
[15:54] <rgreening> looking even
[15:54] <Riddell> rgreening: well that is upstream, adding a kubuntu logo or using a kubuntu palette won't make much difference
[15:54] <zorael> Riddell: udevadm monitor notices it immediately, not sure how to monitor hal
[15:54] <rgreening> we def dont want that wallpaper, unless you want a bunch of kubuntu user hanging themselves from going insane looking at it
[15:55] <rgreening> :)
[15:55] <Riddell> zorael: sounds like a kde issue then, maybe check if other notifications take so long
[15:55] <rgreening> nuno must have sniffed some bad stuff making that
[15:55] <rgreening> :P
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> that wallpaper is disorienting
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> it looks like somebody covered my monitor with blue sticky notes
[15:57] <verbalshadow> Riddell the wallpaper is not my taste, by it is not bad
[15:58] <verbalshadow> JontheEchidna it is disorienting becuase you can't tell where the light source(s) are coming from
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> makes sense
[16:00] <JontheEchidna> Might be a good time to roll our own artwork, while keeping the general gist of upstream's theming in mind
[16:01] <Riddell> I note nookie^ is in the channel
[16:02] <verbalshadow> i really think we should at least take a close look at upstreams branding offer
[16:02] <Riddell> this /is/ upstream we're discussing
[16:03] <Riddell> if there's changes to make to upstream they may well be open to that but "we don't like it at all" is unlikely to help
[16:03] <Riddell> I see plenty of KDE types uncertain about this wallpaper too so it may not stay :)
[16:04]  * Riddell wonders what to say at the release team meeting
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> ^lol @nick change
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> whoa: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KDE+Network+Management?content=116884
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> only rpm for download? lame
[16:07] <Quintasan> lol @ wallpaper\
[16:09] <nookie^> hi
[16:09] <nookie^> Riddell: yes?
[16:09] <Riddell> debfx: this interesting to you? http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content=116886&PHPSESSID=e06d4a06d525e5ced405df35ce796248
[16:09] <Riddell> nookie^: we're just musing about upstream's new wallpaper
[16:10] <nookie^> i've see
[16:10] <nookie^> is there anywhere i can see it aswell?
[16:10] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/wallpapers/Quadros/contents/images/
[16:11] <nookie^> hmm
[16:12] <nookie^> i guess there are better ones out there
[16:12] <nookie^> this will only confuse the users
[16:12] <nookie^> specially when you have incons on desktop
[16:12] <verbalshadow> Riddell thanks for the FF kwallet addon link, i have been looking for something like that
[16:15] <verbalshadow> wonder if it stores them in the same place place in kwallet that konquerer does so i can have them in both browsers
[16:51] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE docs question.  can new docs be added to minor point releases?
[17:11] <ScottK> Translations emails are sucking the fun out of uploading Kubuntu stuff.
[17:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: filter rules ftw
[17:17] <neversfelde> we have blogilo and bilbo in lucid, is it correct to make blogilo conflict bilbo and remove bilbo from the archives? bilbo was renamed to blogilo and is part of kdepim now.
[17:19] <ScottK> neversfelde: It is correct to have blogilo provide a transitional package of bilbo that depends on blogilo and remove the bilbo source from the archive.
[17:19] <ScottK> The transitional package can be dropped after Lucid release.
[17:21] <neversfelde> ScottK: ok, who can remove packages, do I need to open a bug about it?
[17:21] <ScottK> neversfelde: Yes or ping Riddell and maybe he'll just do it.
[17:22] <ScottK> There's a mention of the process on one of the developer wiki pages.  I don't recall where
[17:22] <neversfelde> ScottK: thank you, I'll do it.
[17:22] <ScottK> Who is updating our PPAs for the kde4libs and kdebase-runtime security announcements that came out yesterday and today?
[17:23] <nixternal> Riddell: no they can't
[17:23] <nixternal> Riddell: err, yes they can...sorry
[17:24] <nixternal> they just can't be edited after the string freeze....which package is this referring to?
[17:25] <nixternal> I don't know how extragear/playground is effected honestly by string freezes....but I know KDE main mods can't be edited or news docs added there
[17:26] <apachelogger> each extragear/playground app handles freezes on their own
[17:28] <sebas> playground is not affected at all
[17:28] <sebas> extragear depending on wether the author wants it shipped with KDE SC, in that case normal rules apply
[17:30]  * al likes the blue Post-Its wallpaper
[17:31]  * nixternal hugs sebas
[17:32] <nixternal> brb
[17:32]  * sebas kisses nixternal :D
[17:32] <nixternal> whoa
[17:32]  * nixternal faints
[17:32] <apachelogger> oh my, he fainted indeed
[17:33] <sebas> Ladies and gentlemen: The Kiss of Death, now also available on IRC
[17:33] <apachelogger> scary
[17:34] <ScottK> sebas: Only because he thought you were too beautiful and out of his league.
[17:34] <sebas> I should work on my hooker-like reputation then
[17:35] <nixternal> ScottK hit the nail on the head there :)
[17:35] <sebas> http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/pimp/
[17:35] <nixternal> grr baby grr
[17:35] <nixternal> haha
[17:36]  * apachelogger tunes in phantom, part deux and starts pulling a simplified project vision out nixternal's nose
[17:36] <apachelogger> slowly that must be done :S
[17:36] <nixternal> probably the best project vision you will get :)
[17:36] <nixternal> apachelogger: google docs?
[17:36] <apachelogger> aye
[17:37]  * apachelogger mastered up a project backgorund based on the stuff from the mailing list and likes the result mostly
[17:38] <apachelogger> nixternal: I suppose what yuriy wrote already outlines the vision quite a bit?
[17:41] <nixternal> I would think it does
[17:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: I didn't get time to write my mail about the topic.  Can I just look at the doc and maybe hack on it a bit?
[17:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: technically that is against the point of that particular doc :P
[17:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  I'll write the list then.
[17:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: shared my whole timelord folder with you
[17:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, you can just as well refine the document :)
[17:49]  * apachelogger supposes that he can trust ScottK that much ;)
[17:49] <ScottK> apachelogger: Would you please PM me a link?
[17:49]  * ScottK is busy trying to get a new minion working on another channel.
[17:50] <apachelogger> that reminds me
[17:50] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you still have to recruit a new minion :P
[17:50] <maco> new minion?
[17:50] <maco> does that make me old minion?
[17:51]  * apachelogger would suppose that there are only new minions really
[17:51]  * Daskreech hugs the old minion
[17:51] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[17:51] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Roxanne" by The Police [The Very Best Of Sting And The Police]; see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more
[17:51] <apachelogger> police++
[18:00] <nixternal> there, I have finally responded to the list about apachelogger's maddness :)
[18:02] <apachelogger> madness++
[18:02] <apachelogger> nixternal++
[18:02] <nixternal> no, I don't need to get any fatter before the holidays are over
[18:03] <lubyou> whats the command again to make kdebug work on kubuntu?
[18:03] <nixternal> kdebugdialog?
[18:03] <apachelogger> nixternal: maybe we should start a kubuntu workout program
[18:03] <nixternal> haha, I have already started :)
[18:03] <apachelogger> google doc? :P
[18:04] <apachelogger> you know, writing it should proof less exhausting ;)
[18:04] <lubyou> nixternal thanks
[18:05] <nixternal> yeah, not that I have responded to the list, I need to take yuriy's list and figure out how we do each point better....I am guessing since yuriy came up with the list, he could continue with it :p
[18:05] <nixternal> lubyou: no prob
[18:10] <maco> nixternal: i think the one you cant remember is lenovo. they had suse laptops. had. past tense. got rid last year
[18:10] <nixternal> oh yeah, you are absolutely correct maco
[18:10] <nixternal> you can buy them at frys
[18:10] <maco> you used to get $89 off if you got suse instead of windows
[18:10] <maco> i was looking at them when i bought my zareason
[18:10] <nixternal> it tripped me out, they have this big green board with a penguin on it, with 3 different laptop/netbooks all running SUSE
[18:10] <maco> a few months later, they stopped offering it though
[18:11] <nixternal> I know we have System76 and Zareason, but in the marketing world, only Dell counts there at this time...hopefully System76 and Zareason get stronger over time
[18:12] <maco> wait wait
[18:12] <maco> you're sending puppies?
[18:12] <maco> zareason actually has a physical walk-up store now!
[18:13] <nixternal> maco: oh that's cool, I didn't know that
[18:16] <maco> in berkeley
[18:16] <maco> i think theyd like to expand farther, as they get the resources to do so
[18:16] <maco> i know they have another workshop (but no store) in germany
[18:16] <maco> so they can ship in europe just fine
[18:18] <txwikinger> maco: Not only your fs is eating data:  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1565796/how-eat-day
[18:29] <ScottK> nixternal: From talking to some OEM reps, we need two things we don't have now to get our foot in the door: A good bluetooth experience and pulseaudio support.
[18:30] <ScottK> Fortunately we should get the pulseaudio support in 4.4 once phonon gets sorted.
[18:30] <maco> bahh bluetooth
[18:30] <maco> i blacklist the driver so i dont forget to do it when i go to hacker cons
[18:30] <ghostcube> needs love
[18:30] <maco> not leaving that wide open...
[18:30] <ghostcube> i need bluetooth sometimes
[18:31] <ghostcube> and i must use my winbox for it
[18:31] <maco> txwikinger: american and british million are the same. its billion on which we differ. silly writer.
[18:31] <verbalshadow> ghostcube kbluetooth does not work for you
[18:31] <ghostcube> nah but i havent tested since 4.3.0
[18:32] <txwikinger> maco: Well what do you expect from those brits ;)
[18:32]  * txwikinger corrects himself from brits to English
[18:33] <ghostcube> hmmm kernel update :)
[18:33] <maco> hehe dont want to tick off Riddell?
[18:34] <maco> mixin' 'im in with those english?
[18:34] <txwikinger> well.. for instance :D
[18:35] <txwikinger> Just ask him about those English, and you know what I mean ;)
[18:36] <verbalshadow> poms?
[18:36] <maco> i have a teacher who is welsh. he has a corgi because the queen has a corgi. not because he wants to be like her, but because hers bit her. thus, corgis are good anti-monarchy dogs
[18:36] <maco> "More than 41 per cent of an American's day is spent watching some of the worst telly in the world - some of it makes even Italian TV look good" <-- i dont have a tv. and when i watch tv from DVD, it's BBC
[18:37] <txwikinger> omg... you can do better than BBC
[18:37] <maco> but its Doctor Who!
[18:37] <maco> and Torchwood!
[18:37] <maco> and Sarah Jane Adventures!
[18:38]  * txwikinger didn't even watch BBC while in England
[18:38] <jjesse> hrmm i never watched sarah jane
[18:38] <jjesse> that one any good?
[18:38]  * txwikinger just paid license fee.. no idea for what
[18:39] <maco> yes
[18:39] <maco> but the clown episode was scary
[18:40]  * txwikinger has no idea which series had a clown episode
[18:40] <maco> season 2
[18:40] <nixternal> ScottK: we will get solid bluetooth support when the industry finally realizes what a waste bluetooth really was
[18:40] <apachelogger> anyone wonna fix bug 419771
[18:40] <maco> the pide piper
[18:40] <apachelogger> and SRU it
[18:41] <maco> nixternal: sounds about right
[18:41] <nixternal> apachelogger: I don't touch mono!
[18:41] <nixternal> bluetooth is good for one thing...stealing photos off other people's phones in the mall :)
[18:41] <nixternal> and then selling them to TMZ and the like
[18:42] <txwikinger> that is mono?
[18:42]  * txwikinger does not volunteer for mono stuff
[18:42] <ScottK> It is.
[18:42] <maco> nixternal: you forgot "figuring out which cars in the parking lot have laptops in the trunk, then breaking in and stealing them"
[18:43] <txwikinger> Since when do we have mono in KDE?
[18:43] <maco> txwikinger: yes. -cil
[18:43] <nixternal> cil? crap I loathe?
[18:43] <ScottK> txwikinger: We've always provided bindings.  We don't ship any apps.
[18:43] <ScottK> always meaning for several releases
[18:44] <txwikinger> I think it is not a bug.. it is a feature
[18:44] <nixternal> yeah, actually there is an awesome twitter client built with qyoto
[18:44] <ScottK> We could sure get some press if we shipped that.
[18:45] <freinhard> narf, alpha software in the repositories does suck! had to burn a CD today and was running out of time and k3b didn't do it's job!
[18:45] <nixternal> http://synapse.im/  <- Qt + Mono Instant Messenger...not twitter my mistake
[18:46] <nixternal> I love in the image, you see ken-vandine's big head
[18:48] <nixternal> ScottK: oh man, we should package it up if it isn't already and put it on for april fools day
[18:49] <nixternal> though I think the project is dead already
[18:49]  * txwikinger prefers not to touch mono
[18:49] <maco> nixternal: like when jdong said he was uploading automatix on april fools day?
[18:49] <maco> i was thinking we ought to have a brown theme on april fools day
[18:49] <txwikinger> rofl
[18:50] <nixternal> he actually uploaded it
[18:50] <txwikinger> we can make the kubuntu desktop look like ubuntu
[18:50] <nixternal> he packaged and dput automatix...I got the emails that day and fell out laughing
[18:50] <ScottK> maco: That or Hannah Montana linux is no longer a derivative because we've adopted their styling.
[18:51] <nixternal> hehe
[18:51]  * apachelogger would advocate that
[18:51] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Why? What problem would that solve?
[18:51] <apachelogger> anyhow, the problem with qyoto is that we do not have means to testing really
[18:51] <apachelogger> since there is a gross lack of apps
[18:52] <apachelogger> which kind of makes shippint the bindings at all kind of pointless (considering we are currently offering broken bindings :S)
[19:00] <ScottK> Apparently someone is using them, so we just fix it and move on.
[19:13] <apachelogger> The logo of Mono is a monkey's face, mono being Spanish for monkey. The name relates to the monkeys and apes that are a central theme within Ximian, such as the GNOME Project's logo (a monkey's footprint), the Bonobo project (bonobos are a species of chimpanzee), the Novell Evolution (formerly Ximian Evolution) Project, and the Ximian logo itself (a monkey's silhouette). According to the Mono FAQ, the origin of the name is "We
[19:13] <apachelogger>  like monkeys."
[19:14] <apachelogger> you know, someone within ximian must have been insulted by a monkey in some way in their childhood
[19:14] <apachelogger> hence the obsession with monkeys
[19:16] <JontheEchidna> So did anybody else buy that linux format issue w/ all the KDE distro reviews?
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> I bought it, because on an unrelated page it had a sentence about the weather wallpaper with a screenshot. :3
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> anyways, we got an 8/10 and suse got a 9/10
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> and from the looks of it suse got a 9 because they turned air green :P
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> They did have this to say, though:
[19:19]  * apachelogger really doesnt get what people always have with us sticking to KDE default
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> "Kubuntu's best feature is unofficial. It's the updated versions of KDE that appears in the PPA repositories. These are the best packgaes we've found for keeping KDE up to date, which is especially important when so many changes are still being made."
[19:20] <ScottK> Where is that from?
[19:20] <apachelogger> so if we provided the updates more officially we would get 9/10?
[19:21] <ScottK> Well if the updates didn't also include regressions we could do that.
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> Linux Format magazine I saw/bought at Borders bookstore
[19:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: I mean driving minor updates to -updates
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> they put openSUSE on the DVD they shipped with the magazine because it won.
[19:22] <apachelogger> since there are only 3 months between KDE release and Kubuntu release I think people will survive
[19:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: lam0rs
[19:22] <zorael> Is Quadros to be the new default wallpaper? It's... uh. Difficult to appreciate.
[19:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: I know.  So far the 4.3 updates aren't so great on being regression free.
[19:23] <ScottK> zorael: Very delicately put.
[19:23] <apachelogger> Nightrose: if anyone cares ... sloccount on extragear spits out Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 59,115,182
[19:23] <apachelogger> that is without amarok and konvi obviously
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> The DVD also came with UNR and a GNOME 2.8 live environment on it
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> I think it'd be neat if we could get on a DVD for $MAGAZINE one day
[19:24] <apachelogger> well
[19:25] <apachelogger> we only require a CD so that aint gonna happen :P
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> I think that people bust on us for not changing the default is more of a social issue.
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> They think that since we didn't change the artwork that we don't care
[19:26]  * ScottK considers the total lack of an artwork team a hinderance to change anyway.
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> Even though it's perfectly acceptable to use the upstream artwork, it still stands that not changing it leads to this perception
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> I think part of why we lack an artwork team is our attitude that we wanted to stick to upstream artwork early on in the 4.x days.
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> No need == on artwork team
[19:27] <apachelogger> we certainly could bribe ruphy
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> then that leads to a chicken/egg situation
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> where since we don't have an artwork team we don't get artwork
[19:28] <ruphy> well
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> I'm sure that there are a lot of artists in the community that would jump at the opportunity to make artwork
[19:28] <ruphy> you can ask upstream artists :)
[19:29]  * apachelogger thinks someone should hook up with ruphy and make him a kubuntu dude working upstream :P
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> I think somebody just needs to care enough about it to get it done, or something. Since I recall that we did want to work wiht upstream but nobody ever really did except for the ubiquity theme
[19:29] <ruphy> eheheheh :)
[19:29] <apachelogger> there ruphy is all in favor of that
[19:29] <ruphy> i might spare some time on it, sure
[19:30] <ruphy> when i'm less busy with school than this precise moment though
[19:30] <ruphy> later
[19:30]  * apachelogger hugs and kisses ruphy and leaves him to do school work stuff
[19:30] <ScottK> Last cycle we wanted to explore taking up the upstream offer of distro specific help, but except for shtylman and the installer, no one did it.
[19:30] <ruphy> apachelogger: :*
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> ^My point exactly
[19:31] <apachelogger> ScottK: as always I will blaim the lack of long-term vision for that ;)
[19:31] <ruphy> apachelogger: ah, while i'm at it, please update your kubuntu packages of kmess. the name resetting bug is just... painful :-)
[19:31] <ruphy> and patch has already been released
[19:31] <apachelogger> ruphy: will do
[19:31] <maco> i dont think anyone would like my attempts at artwork
[19:31] <maco> havent gotten very good with this tablet yet
[19:31] <ruphy> apachelogger: thanks
[19:32] <apachelogger> ^ some minion do update kmess so that I can get credit for that :P
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> hah
[19:32]  * apachelogger spots maco
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> I'll update for lucid then get the patch for the name reset SRU'd
[19:32] <maco> apachelogger: what are you spotting me for? packaging or artwork?
[19:33] <maco> and i thought i was old minion now!
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> maybe that'll get me in the mood to do other sru's I've been meaning to do :x
[19:33] <maco> mmm the great thing about december: apple cider!
[19:33] <maco> oh! i can make it *hot* apple cider!
[19:33] <apachelogger> maco: kmess SRU I suppose
[19:34] <maco> um....ok?
[19:35] <maco> is there a bug number i should look at?
[19:36] <maco> ow shocking kitty
[19:36] <maco> are cats normally electrically charged?
[19:36]  * JontheEchidna files a sync request for kmess in lucid
[19:36] <maco> every time i pet this one's ears, i get a shock
[19:37] <yuriy> maco: mine haven't been shocking me, but yeah with the fur and always rubbing up against things
[19:37] <maco> aw someone in #ubuntu just said that kde disgusts them
[19:37] <apachelogger> ruphy: this one? http://trac.kmess.org/changeset/5693
[19:37] <ruphy> there's also a bug on launchpad, opened by me
[19:37] <ruphy> let me see
[19:38] <ruphy> apachelogger: precisely
[19:38] <apachelogger> k
[19:38] <ruphy> bugfix released in 2.0.1
[19:38] <apachelogger> maco: bug 485640 upstream fix: http://trac.kmess.org/changeset/5693 t
[19:39]  * apachelogger sings I'll derive
[19:40] <apachelogger> maco: lucid version needs to be bumped to 2.0.2 (maybe already in debian), then we can just SRU that fix for karmic
[19:41]  * JontheEchidna is filing the kmess sync request as we speak
[19:41] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we can sync?
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we got our phonon differences settled in Qt
[19:42] <Mamarok> JontheEchidna: did we?
[19:42] <apachelogger> ok, assigning the lucid task to you then :P
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> Mamarok: in comparison to debian's packaging, yes
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> we now use the name libphonon-dev instead of libqt4-phonon-dev
[19:43] <Mamarok> ah... have you seen Thiagos mail to kde-core-devel?
[19:43] <maco> ok so i should ignore those links then?
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> if you want to you can do the SRU
[19:44] <apachelogger> maco: you'll just need to take care of the SRU, JontheEchidna will resolve the issue in lucid
[19:45] <maco> ok on the sru im still doing a normal "apply that patch to that thing" right?
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> Mamarok: which thread?
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> oh, that phonon/pa thread?
[19:46] <Mamarok> well, the one of today
[19:46] <maco> apachelogger: ?
[19:47] <apachelogger> maco: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/StableReleaseUpdates
[19:47] <apachelogger> most importantly https://wiki.kubuntu.org/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[19:48] <maco> yeah with the listing all the reasoning...
[19:48] <apachelogger> maco: you basically just do what you would be doing to fix it in lucid, but with as little invasion as possible, and your changelog entry will list karmic-proposed as distro
[19:48] <maco> im just checking that you werent saying something closer to backports since you and JontheEchidna started talking about syncs
[19:49] <JontheEchidna> I'm just getting the packaging synced for lucid so that people don't go merging things for no reason
[19:49] <apachelogger> maco: backports do not qualify to fix SRUworthy bugs :)
[19:49] <apachelogger> ScottK gets grumpy if you try to do that
[19:49] <ScottK> Absolutely.
[19:50] <maco> by the way, what is kmess and what is friendly name?
[19:50] <maco> i dont know how to write sru justification without those info
[19:51] <apachelogger> maco: a kde msn client
[19:51] <apachelogger> friendly name is probably some sort of nick type for msn
[19:51] <apachelogger> ruphy: ^
[19:52] <ruphy> yes
[19:52] <ruphy> friendly name is your nickname
[19:52] <ruphy> or, your name
[19:52] <apachelogger> oh
[19:52] <ruphy> people see two things of you there
[19:52] <apachelogger> http://kmess.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4291
[19:52] <ruphy> your friendly name
[19:52] <ruphy> and your personal message
[19:52] <apachelogger> friendly name is like a nick ontop of your nick
[19:53] <ruphy> apachelogger: well, it's actually what you see of other people
[19:53] <ruphy> apachelogger: that is considered to be the name (used also in chat logs)
[19:54] <ruphy> although many people use nicks or colorful stuff
[19:54] <maco> like pidgin alias?
[19:54] <ruphy> i, as one, use "ruphy" as friendly name
[19:54] <apachelogger> yeah, an ever-changable nick, as opposed to an MSN account name?
[19:55] <ruphy> yes
[19:55] <ruphy> that you can change it
[19:55] <apachelogger> maco: does that make sense to you? :)
[19:55] <ruphy> without the patch, it defaults to your first name of your msn registration
[19:55] <maco> apachelogger: yeah
[19:55] <ruphy> not even the mail of your registeret account
[19:55] <ruphy> in few words, this is really annoying :)
[19:56] <ruphy> (also because most people tend to customize it a lot)
[19:56] <maco> i guess i can just use the original bug report as the "impact" line. its nice & short
[19:56] <maco> wow i can read that
[19:56] <apachelogger> heh
[19:56] <maco> who'da thunk? qt/c++ i can actually read
[19:57] <apachelogger> ruphy: fixes on their way then
[19:57] <apachelogger> maco: wanna give reading my C a shot? :P
[19:57]  * apachelogger wanted to go out for "gluehwein" 2 hours ago....
[19:57] <ruphy> apachelogger: :*
[19:57] <apachelogger> I need stricter time management for sure
[19:57]  * apachelogger blushes for the time being
[20:02] <ruphy> apachelogger: how much will it take to go downstream? (approx.)
[20:03] <maco> apachelogger: the files to patch dont even exist in karmic
[20:03] <maco> /src/network/soap/roamingservice.cpp
[20:03] <maco> that doesnt exist
[20:03] <apachelogger> fun
[20:03] <apachelogger> maco: grepped for prominent source lines already?
[20:04] <nixternal> apachelogger: I have broken out all of my uni stuff dude for this marketing expedition you have started....I have all kinds of stuff to get the creative juices flowing....we need to have a Kubuntu summit here in Chicago, 2 weeks of creative work....oh man the stuff I should make you do!
[20:04] <apachelogger> ruphy: well, maco needs to get the patched version ready, then it will be uploaded to the karmic-proposed repository where it will be sitting for at least one week to ensure that no regressions were introduced, after that it will be moved to the karmic-updates repo
[20:04] <maco> apachelogger: not much context to go on, but what i see...not in any files in there
[20:05] <apachelogger> ruphy: karmic-porposed obviously is a repo that is not turned on by default ;)
[20:05] <nixternal> I have all kinds of exercises for people to do :)  hehe, I hated most of them, but it is exactly the same exercises you do when working as a marketer or in a marketing firm
[20:05] <apachelogger> hehe
[20:05]  * apachelogger likes how that "oh man the stuff I should make you do!" sounds ;D
[20:06] <nixternal> haha
[20:06] <ruphy> hang on a sec
[20:06] <nixternal> jeesh, we sure had to write a lot in those marketing classes
[20:06] <ruphy> what version of kmess there is in karmic?
[20:06] <apachelogger> ruphy: 2.0
[20:06] <ruphy> then, this should apply cleanly o.0
[20:06] <maco> nope
[20:06] <ruphy> meh
[20:07]  * apachelogger is taking a look
[20:07] <apachelogger> maco: me@osiris:~/tmp/kmess-2.0$ ls -l src/network/msnnotificationconnection.cpp
[20:07] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r-- 1 me me 100309 2009-07-25 00:56 src/network/msnnotificationconnection.cpp
[20:07] <apachelogger> did you grab the right sources?
[20:08] <maco> thats not the right file
[20:08] <maco> roamingservice.cpp is the missing one
[20:08] <maco> in src/network/soap/
[20:08] <apachelogger> hm
[20:08] <apachelogger> indeed
[20:08] <maco> this patch touches 6 files
[20:08] <apachelogger> just noticed, my bad :)
[20:09] <apachelogger> well yeah
[20:09] <apachelogger> that file got backported from 2.1
[20:09] <apachelogger> http://trac.kmess.org/log/branches/kmess/kmess-2.0.x/src/network/soap/roamingservice.cpp?rev=5693
[20:09] <maco> so i just copy and paste the whole file in?
[20:09] <maco> this sounds dirty
[20:09] <apachelogger> would get rejected
[20:09] <apachelogger> besides, I doubt it works
[20:09] <maco> or at least slightly hacky
[20:10]  * ScottK has done worse.
[20:10] <maco> ScottK: in an sru?
[20:11] <apachelogger> maco: quite possibly the roamingservice change is not required
[20:11] <maco> i think it's necessary
[20:11] <maco> currentAccount->setFriendlyName( lastKnownFriendlyName_ );
[20:12] <maco> i mean
[20:12] <apachelogger> well
[20:12] <apachelogger> since the roamingservice introduction commit does not remove any classes or files I suppose it just enhances the codebase, rather than replaces parts of it
[20:12] <maco> that looks like its doing the  par tthat does the fixin
[20:12]  * ScottK recalls making a package work in Dapper by grabbing one updated library from Feisty and the Feisty version of the package to talk to that lib and then another updated lib from Hardy, grabbing one file from the Hardy version of the package, using debian/rules and debian/control from the original Dapper package, slamming it all together and it worked.
[20:13] <ScottK> It started out in backports, but eventually ended up in updates.
[20:13] <ScottK> So yes, for an SRU.
[20:13] <maco> O_O
[20:13] <ScottK> Let's not tell pitti though.
[20:13] <apachelogger> maco: no other change affects a roamingservice object though
[20:14] <ScottK> (this was in service of updating clamav for security issues, so a lot of rules get bent pretty hard)
[20:14] <maco> ah
[20:14] <apachelogger> maco: I would give it a try without roamingservice
[20:14] <apachelogger> if it does not fix the issue worst that can happen is it still not remember the friendly name
[20:14] <maco> apachelogger: but without roamingservice, what is going to do the "make the current friendly name be the old friendly name" bit?
[20:14] <apachelogger> in which case we would have to digg in the 2.0 codebase a bit
[20:15] <apachelogger> maco: good point
[20:15] <maco> the way the patch would work seems fairly straightforward. that file is necessary
[20:16] <apachelogger> maco: I dont see anything doing that for personal msg either
[20:17] <apachelogger> maybe we actually need to drag the file in either way
[20:17] <apachelogger> maco: I suppose consulting with upstream is appropriate
[20:20] <maco> think they have an irc channel?
[20:21] <maco> or maybe just an msn chatroom...
[20:21] <apachelogger> maco: #kmess it seems
[20:21] <apachelogger> http://kmess.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3385&start=0 :)
[20:23]  * apachelogger gives up on going out tonight, and postpones to tomorrow
[20:26] <apachelogger> Nightrose: playground Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 59,115,182
[20:27] <apachelogger> oh, hold on, that was extragear again :D
[20:27] <jussi01> ScottK: wow, thats dodge to the max...
[20:29] <nixternal> apachelogger: should we have a little competition:  Create a product box for Kubuntu, you know the box the software comes in, that you see on the store shelf. Create the front and back. On the front: product name, an image, and 3 selling points...on the back a full description of the product and all requirements
[20:30] <apachelogger> that actually sounds like fun
[20:30] <nixternal> this was the project we had to do before we created any product visions in school....it was fun, but oh-so-freaking-hard
[20:30] <apachelogger> can imagine
[20:30] <maco> nixternal: did you go to marketing school?
[20:31] <nixternal> maco: trying to finish my MBA where I majored in marketing and business management
[20:31] <nixternal> I will probably never finish it though...I have been working at it for years :)
[20:31] <apachelogger> lol playground is worth more than extragear
[20:31] <apachelogger> Nightrose: palyground Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 89,449,424
[20:31] <jjesse> do you really need an MBA?
[20:32] <nixternal> I have educational ADD...I start one major, get interested in another...because college is free for me thanks to the military, I have taken courses in just about every topic there is
[20:32] <apachelogger> now lets see
[20:32] <nixternal> I even tried HVAC which was god awful boring
[20:32] <Nightrose> apachelogger: hehe - sorry was away all day
[20:32] <nixternal> jjesse: no, MBAs are nothing more than pissing contests now, because if you don't get it from one of the top 3 schools, it doesn't matter anyways
[20:33] <jjesse> thats what i figured
[20:33] <apachelogger> KDE as per cornelius 175 million + KO as per adam 35 million + extragear 59 million + playground 89 million
[20:34] <Mamarok> way to expensive for me ;)
[20:34] <maco> nixternal: you sound like me...im getting rather tired of the CS major
[20:34] <maco> oh! right...i wanted to take Advanced Operating Systems next semester...
[20:34] <neversfelde> seems that my skills are not good enough to package amarok 2.2.2 beta1, there is an error about missing openssl. Debian has a fix for this and I added it, but it does not help :(
[20:35] <Mamarok> apachelogger: and what is Amarok worth?
[20:35] <maco> must remember to sign up for that
[20:35] <neversfelde> probably I made a mistake with quilt
[20:35] <apachelogger> Mamarok: I have no amarok clone lying around
[20:35] <apachelogger> Mamarok: just install sloccount and run it with the amarok folder as arg
[20:37] <Mamarok> ok
[20:37]  * apachelogger notes that KDE is a lot more worth than what sloccount spits out though, since it does not take artwork into account
[20:37] <apachelogger> and artwork is quite expensive I suppose
[20:37] <apachelogger> sine it takes so long to create good one
[20:38] <Mamarok> well, ask Nuno what he would charge for all Oxygen :)
[20:39] <apachelogger> that reminds me that I have to make him use kubuntu :P
[20:39] <apachelogger> but he is all pissed because canonical assimilated kwwii :S
[20:39]  * apachelogger is too though :P
[20:42] <nixternal> I like how kwwii took his Chicago attitude to Germany...I wonder what the Germans think :)
[20:42] <nixternal> it is funny, he is no different today than he was like 5 years ago when he lived here
[20:43] <Mamarok> Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 6,097,002, only Amarok 2
[20:46] <Quintasan> apachelogger: why do I have to do so?
[20:46] <nixternal> Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 45,796    <- horseshit, that is for kubuntu-docs
[20:46] <nixternal> oh oh, I see
[20:46] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36698509/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.amarok-nightly_20091211%2Bvcsb15e2e8692aa5c66ceb881b129fdfd557c08d230-0neon1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: because you are not minion no more
[20:46] <nixternal> according to sloccount, I can make $56k/year writing docs :)
[20:47] <Quintasan> apachelogger: hurr, voting wasn't ended, the missing 4 people can vote -1 :P
[20:47] <Quintasan> or +0
[20:48] <apachelogger> Quintasan: like that is gonna happen -.-
[20:48] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I suppose you need to build amarok-nightly-kdesupprot first
[20:48] <nixternal> Quintasan: oh yeah, I need to vote don't I?
[20:48] <apachelogger> and then switch from old libqtscriptbindings1 to new stuff
[20:49] <apachelogger> and from seperate mysql for amarok-nightly to stock karmic one
[20:49] <nixternal> hrmm, there is no email
[20:49] <Quintasan> nixternal: yes you probably have to vote :P
[20:49] <apachelogger> nixternal: just take a vote, cant hurt :P
[20:49] <nixternal> Quintasan: trying to figure out how to vote now
[20:49] <Quintasan> nixternal: you'd better not try voting +0 or -1 :P
[20:49] <nixternal> Quintasan: -2 then
[20:50] <Quintasan> or "dont't" was it
[20:50] <Quintasan> nixternal: got me
[20:50] <Quintasan> s/-1/>0/
[20:50] <nixternal> hehe
[20:51]  * apachelogger reminds nixternal what happens with people who do question the superior logic of mathematics
[20:51] <nixternal> I see the kubuntu ninjas were in effect for the meeting....wonder why it took persia so long to tell you to shut up :)
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> we were too stealthy for persia to tell us to shut up until the end :P
[20:52] <Quintasan> nixternal: not much threat I am over the internet but at UDS I can bite you :P
[20:52] <nixternal> careful now, people think I am scary for some reason
[20:52] <apachelogger> nixternal: would you wanna do that mid-ninja-flood? just imagine, that will cause the flood to finish and then trigger a new one all at once
[20:52] <nixternal> haha, true
[20:53] <Quintasan> nixternal: scary? I can poke apachelogger with stick and I'm not hurt, I'm not afraid of anyone :P
[20:53] <apachelogger> besides, questioning one ninja is like questioning all anyway, hence all should be allowed to answer :P
[20:53] <nixternal> yes, but ninjas are supposed to be silent
[20:53] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you are just lucky because you are not minion nor motu right now
[20:58] <Quintasan> ...
[21:00] <Quintasan> no matter how hard I try I just cant imagine something more scarry than apachelogger hitting the keyboard with caps lock on :P
[21:01]  * apachelogger sets new identi.ca avatar
[21:01] <Quintasan> coolface.jpg?
[21:02] <apachelogger> no :P
[21:03] <Lex79> Quintasan: are you motu now?
[21:04] <Quintasan> Lex79: almost
[21:04] <Quintasan> Lex79: at least 4 +1 votes are needed
[21:04] <Lex79> uhm ? lol
[21:04] <Quintasan> Lex79: I have 3 :P
[21:05] <Quintasan> Lex79: few people from council are ill and dholbach said they will catch up with them via email
[21:17] <Riddell> nixternal: see release-team mailing list for the docs issue
[21:17] <Riddell> neversfelde: you needed something deleting?
[21:21] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes, bilbo is now part of kdepim and is named blogilo, they are bot in lucid
[21:21] <neversfelde> I can push a version of kdepim with a transitional bilbo package
[21:22] <ScottK> Riddell: Assuming the armel PPA you test uploaded to is about the same speed as the buildd kde4libs blew up on, we're about 30 minutes away from knowing if that fix worked or not ...
[21:25] <Riddell> neversfelde: bilbo gone
[21:25] <maco> it has new name
[21:25] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:25] <ScottK> blogilo
[21:25] <ScottK> neversfelde: Did you do the transitional package for kdepim?
[21:26] <neversfelde> Riddell: thanks, I push the changes for kdepim then
[21:27] <Riddell> ScottK: it's no deid yet
[21:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Nice.
[21:27] <maco> deid?
[21:28] <ScottK> ei/ie
[21:28] <neversfelde> ScottK: just pushed it to bzr
[21:28]  * ScottK looks
[21:29]  * Riddell made no typo
[21:29] <ScottK> Riddell: I know, I was translating.
[21:30] <ScottK> Riddell: What's the recommended replacement for kivio?
[21:30] <maco> Riddell: scots?
[21:33] <Riddell> ScottK: umbrello!
[21:33] <Riddell> (for UML bits)
[21:33] <maco> hehehe
[21:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I need it more for flow charting.
[21:34] <ScottK> I'll have a look at umbrello though.
[21:34] <Riddell> dia then
[21:34] <ScottK> OK.
[21:34] <maco> you just say umbrello because you writed it
[21:34] <maco> dia is a gnome app
[21:35] <Riddell> maco: I won an award for it, it must be good
[21:40] <rgreening> Obama got the peace prize.. we know what awrds are good for
[21:40] <rgreening> :)
[21:40]  * rgreening hides behind a rock
[21:43] <jussi01> heh, a rock mustve fallen on his connection...
[21:43] <jussi01> :P
[21:45] <apachelogger> either karma or the CIA
[21:46] <apachelogger> probably the latter
[21:46] <Mamarok> nah, Freenode staffers seem to be awfully busy tonight
[21:46] <apachelogger> we need a new rgreening I suppose :S
[21:46] <neversfelde> probably an attack
[21:59] <Lex79> ScottK: you forgot to do "bzr add plasma-desktop.install and plasma-netbook.install" this has caused the problems in staging, since I taken the debian/ dir from bzr for doing the backports
[21:59] <Lex79> and plasma-desktop and netbooks are empty in staging :)
[21:59] <Lex79> I'm fixing
[22:00] <rgreening> cool.
[22:00] <rgreening> are we close to being able to get stuff from staging into backports?
[22:00] <rgreening> :)
[22:00] <ScottK> (at least if you're an American)
[22:00] <ScottK> It's probably harder for others.
[22:00] <ScottK> (read the rest)
[22:00] <ScottK> You didn't qualify for the easy version.
[22:00] <apachelogger> meh
[22:00] <ScottK> Lex79: Sorry.
[22:00] <ScottK> Thanks.
[22:00] <ScottK> That's not a good situation.
[22:00] <Lex79> it should automatically, every time someone forgot to do bzr add :P
[22:01] <JontheEchidna> my net feels very split
[22:05] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: can you upload ktorrent when you got a second?
[22:05] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, I forgot about that
[22:09] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: we have also to remove windowlist and spell check widgets. Binary and source? or only source?
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> binary and source, since they're both incorporated into different packages now (plasma-widgets-workspace for windowlist)
[22:10] <Lex79> ok
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: btw, for future reference we can just include /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/debhelper/kubuntu.mk for the langpack stuff
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> that way we don't get depreciation warnings from debuild
[22:10] <Lex79> oh ok, thanks :)
[22:11] <JontheEchidna> I didn't know this until today when Riddell did that to his package, so it's not anything you should have known :)
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> A very good merge nevertheless
[22:12] <Lex79> :P
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> Are you going to apply for motu (or maybe kubuntu-dev) soon?
[22:13] <Lex79> uhmm, yes I think motu and after few weeks kubuntu-dev
[22:13] <Lex79> or few days, depends :P
[22:14] <ScottK> Lex79: MOTU is not a requirement for kbuntu-dev
[22:14] <Lex79> ScottK: I know, but can I upload kde stuff which is in Universe becoming kubuntu-dev? I think not, right ?
[22:15] <ScottK> No, you can't.
[22:15] <verbalshadow> how does one start helping Kubuntu
[22:15] <ScottK> verbalshadow: One shows up here and asks.
[22:15] <ScottK> verbalshadow: Welcome.  How are you interested in helping (or do you know)?
[22:15] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: there are also new qtcurve packages in bzr
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: I currently have a sync request for the gtk2- qtcurve
[22:17] <Lex79> ok perfect
[22:17] <verbalshadow> ScottK what is going to be the most help? i know how to compile, write docs, art i kind of want to bang on the plymouth theme
[22:17] <apparle> hello guys.... I was wondering.. who exactly decides what is the xsplash for kubuntu
[22:18] <ScottK> verbalshadow: We need bug triagers.  I think Plymouth integration is totally available for someone to work on.
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: oh, you forgot to add the quilt build-dep
[22:19] <verbalshadow> my LP ID is verbalshadow if you need it for bug triage rights
[22:19] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: in ktorrent?
[22:20] <ScottK> verbalshadow: If you're up for some bug triaging, please join #kubuntu-bugs.
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: yes, they don't need it for source format 3.0 but we do for the moment
[22:21] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: oh yes, I drop for source format 3 and I forgot to readd when I dropped format 3 lol
[22:21] <Lex79> sorry, can you add?
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> you might want to testbuild again too. using kde.mk made it not use the CMake flags
[22:21] <ScottK> verbalshadow: You should probably ask Riddell about Plymouth integration.
[22:22] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: ok I will do and reupload to LP
[22:22] <ScottK> apparle: It's part of a spec approved by the Kubuntu Council, but Kubuntu developers generally work together to decide what's best.
[22:22]  * ScottK has to run.
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> back in a bit
[22:41] <Lex79> Riddell: launchpad bug 495690 495692
[22:41] <Lex79> Riddell: launchpad bug 495692
[22:42] <amichair> is the ktorrent widget purposely missing?
[22:44] <neversfelde> Lex79: is plasma-widget-windowlist dead?
[22:44] <Lex79> yes
[22:44] <neversfelde> ah and did you see that tic tac toe is updated?
[22:45] <neversfelde> same problem with plasma-widget-mail I think. It did not work in Karmic.
[22:45] <Lex79>  plasma-widget-windowlist is in plasma-desktop package since 4.4 beta
[22:46] <neversfelde> cool
[22:46] <Lex79> neversfelde: doesn't tic tac toe work?
[22:46] <Riddell> Lex79: done
[22:46] <neversfelde> Lex79: it works, plasma-widget-mail is the one, that dows not work
[22:46] <Lex79> Riddell: both?
[22:46] <Riddell> yes
[22:46] <Lex79> ok
[22:47] <Lex79> neversfelde: plasma-widget-mail is written in python?
[22:49] <neversfelde> Lex79: mhh, dunno, I had a look at it some time agon and as far as I remember the actual version does not compile wit karmic
[22:49] <neversfelde> so should be the same problem with lucid
[22:50] <Riddell> ScottK: waa http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/kde4libs-arm.text
[22:50] <Riddell> ../../plasma/private/kineticscroll.cpp:198: error: no matching function for call to 'qBound(qreal, qreal, double)'
[22:52] <Riddell> ScottK: guess I'll add another qreal(0)
[22:53] <Lex79> Riddell: ensure you have bzr updated in your machine for kdebase-workspace before uploading, I pushed some changes there
[22:55] <Riddell> Lex79: is this a hint you think I should upload? :)
[22:56] <Lex79> nope I fixed your mess but the package is still signed by you :P
[22:57] <Riddell> ooh, cheeky
[22:57] <Riddell> ScottK: kde4libs re-uploaded to PPA
[22:57] <Lex79> :)
[23:03] <ScottK> Riddell: Cool.  Progress.
[23:18] <verbalshadow> Riddell what needs done for plymouth intergration ?
[23:22] <Riddell> verbalshadow: I've no idea, I've not looked at it
[23:22] <Riddell> bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206089 knows more
[23:30] <verbalshadow> Riddell looks like it has a patch :)
[23:42] <Riddell> verbalshadow: able to try it?
[23:43] <verbalshadow> not yet, i have to grab kdm source and i have been reading bug docs
[23:44] <verbalshadow> Riddell ^
[23:51] <ScottK> verbalshadow: Source for kdm is in the kdebase-workspace package.
[23:54] <verbalshadow> ScottK thanks
[23:55] <verbalshadow> is ati modesetting on my default in lucid?
[23:57] <ScottK> I don't know.
[23:57] <ScottK> verbalshadow: You might ask in #ubuntu-x.