[08:20] <darkmatter> mac_v: check out the new glyphs in g-i-t http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3448/screenshotlh.png  :O
[08:51] <mac_v> darkmatter: hehe... i know , i was the initial one who suggested they add the dots to the '<' '>' ;p
[08:53] <darkmatter> :P
[08:55] <mac_v> darkmatter: without the dots they worked well on chrome , but the dropdown arrows were the problem
[08:55] <darkmatter> I really am enjoying seeing a shift to actual glyphs none the less
[08:55] <mac_v> darkmatter: those icons might go back to just the < >  , if we can convince the nautilus devs to do away with the drop-down arrows
[08:55] <darkmatter> plus the general shift in g-i-t to use silver as a base <3
[08:56] <darkmatter> mac_v: yeah. the dropdowns are fat
[08:57] <darkmatter> mac_v: convince them to do a single navigational dropdown like FF, since the dropdown is basically just a recent history marker anyway
[08:58] <mac_v> darkmatter: the drop down is of no use , we could just show the history on right-click similar to how chrome does it
[08:59] <mac_v> anyway , even firefox is doing away with the drop-down arrows
[09:01] <darkmatter> mac_v: aye, but right-click lacks discoverability. the idea is to make interface bits simpler and discoverable. so if you do away with the marker, then do away with the menu
[09:02] <mac_v> darkmatter: but the real question is? how often do you really use the history for the nautilus window?  is it worth the visual noise
[09:03] <mac_v> darkmatter: also , if the history for the web browsers are going to behave the same way , it becomes easy to discover too
[09:03] <darkmatter> mac_v: thats another issue. technically that menu isn't used often even in browsers, so its a waste of code
[09:04] <darkmatter> mac_v: plus, consistency. right click is traditionally preferences/config on toolbars, context elsewhere. keep its usage consistent
[09:04] <mac_v> darkmatter: yeah , currently there is a discussion about redoing the nautilus design ...
[09:05] <darkmatter> mac_v: yeah, I saw garretts finderesque mockups :P
[09:06] <mac_v> darkmatter: IMO , the search isnt really essential for a file browser.. that isnt the first thing you do.. it might even be the last thing you need
[09:07] <darkmatter> mac_v: ANYTHING would be better than the current nautilus ui
[09:07] <mac_v> i mean , isnt essential for so much prominence
[09:10] <darkmatter> mac_v: yeah, but still useful. but it should really do live filtering (like the CC), and if it goes that route, one should really approach things from a collection/library concept.
[09:11] <darkmatter> searching a directory is... odd.. searching document, pictures etc makes sense though
[09:11] <darkmatter> if ya get what I'm saying
[09:27]  * mac_v notices thorwil hasnt mentioned anything on the nautilus design wave ... wonders if he has something brewing up to surprise us :)
[09:30] <thorwil> mac_v: with yesterdays state, i simply had nothing to add ... except that if basically the same design is used for file dialogs, some thought has to be spend on keyboard use
[09:38] <thorwil> mac_v: longer term i want tags/categories instead of a hierarchical filesystem, one interface to manage all documents, messages, audio, video ...
[09:39] <mac_v> thorwil: yeah , tags seem to be the way nowadays... but i'm just lazy to tag stuff... ;p
[09:39]  * mac_v needs to be more organized
[09:39] <thorwil> mac_v: versioning support build in, tracking of remote copies, file dependency tracking ...
[09:41] <thorwil> mac_v: it just doesn't work out as long as you also have an hierarchical system and can't be sure you can transfer your tags if you move your library or just a part of it
[09:42] <mac_v> thorwil: you need to mention this as Alex is rethinking the nautilus design , and this is a major change , appropriate for gnome-shell
[09:42] <mac_v> on the ML*
[09:45] <thorwil> mac_v: hmm, i worry it is too much at once and a feature list alone won't suffice, anyway
[09:47] <mac_v> thorwil: gnome-shell really wants to do away with hierarchy , but they dont know how/what to replace it with... a mention will probably trigger a discussion and spark new thoughts
[09:50] <mac_v> thorwil: you could blog your idea , and mention it... would probably be a nice step forward to do away with hierarchy...
[09:53] <thorwil> mac_v: i might do that. but first i have a bathroom to clean :}
[09:54] <mac_v> thorwil: i didnt have to hear/know that ;p
[09:54] <mac_v> hehe
[09:54]  * thorwil makes plan to inform mac_v of household chores more often
[12:19] <Equiet> Is Ubuntu getting a new look in Lucid?
[12:20] <thorwil> Equiet: answers to that question have been a bit inconsistent. if you add past experience, the answer must be: "definitively maybe"
[12:21] <kwwii> hehe
[12:21] <kwwii> no doubt
[12:21] <kwwii> I heard that we might get a new window decoration, but I am not sure about that in the meantime
[12:21] <kwwii> we'll have a new desktop bg naturally
[12:27] <Equiet> In Software Center, will the Home tab (in my mocukps) stay there?
[13:09]  * kwwii reboots, brb
[13:33] <thorwil> kwwii: so i guess i should drop "Wallpaper submissions for this cycle will be removed from the wiki once spotted. To make it very clear that they will not be considered and to not encourage others to add theirs." from the wiki, then?
[13:33] <thorwil> arg
[13:33] <kwwii> thorwil: erm?
[13:33] <thorwil> nm the arg
[13:35] <kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I guess that we can remove that so that people can still work on them as a project there
[13:36]  * thorwil edits
[13:44]  * thorwil comments wiki edit: "Kenneth lacks killer-instinct, so I have to be nice and not auto-kick every wallpaper I see here :)"
[13:50] <thorwil> mac_v: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/file-handling/
[13:52] <thorwil> recently i was quite amazed about a few ancient attachments hanging around on random pages
[14:10] <kwwii> lol
[14:23]  * mac_v checks out thorwil's blog
[14:23] <mac_v> kwwii: karmic koala== 9.10 ;p
[14:24] <mac_v> " If you saw Ubuntu 9.04 (the karmic koala), "
[14:27] <kwwii> oops
[14:29] <kwwii> I stand corrected
[14:29] <kwwii> thanks for pointing that out
[15:10] <Equiet_> New mockup for History. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/ history-v7.png
[15:13] <Equiet_> November (selected) is showed all, previous month only 15 days. October is not visible, because nothing happened.
[15:15] <Equiet_> When you click on September or on that arrow button, months move to the right and September will be selected and shown all.
[15:17] <Equiet_> But for November, show all days or just until 24.11. (the today day)?
[15:17] <Equiet_> And for previous month, show last 15 or every second day?
[15:17] <Equiet_> s/showed/shown
[15:33] <mac_v> Equiet_: hiding months , isnt good ;)  ... BTW , why have you designed history to be selected for 1week at a time? 1day selection would be more ideal
[15:35] <Equiet_> mac_v: Only one day will be selected by default?
[15:38] <mac_v> Equiet_: the list in the history you've used is a small one , but when user updates only once every week the list would be longer and ... if user has installed something else during the week , it would be lost in the bug list... user would want to select the day rather than the week
[15:39] <Equiet_> Is Home tab necessary?
[15:39] <Equiet_> mac_v: Ok, np.
[15:39] <mac_v> yup
[15:40] <mac_v> Equiet_: home is for the picks and stuff
[15:40] <mac_v> Equiet_: also , for search ,IMO , the top level is more ideal , since... User can just search in the toolbar and just switch tabs home/installed/available to view the narrowed down search...
[15:41] <mac_v> rather than having to search each time within the tabs
[15:43] <Equiet_> When you click on the department in Home tab, what happens?
[15:44] <mac_v> Equiet_: have you checked out the current software store?
[15:46] <mac_v> Equiet_: another issue , is for the future there will be apps *sold* from there... so they want "get free software" and "buy software" sections
[15:52] <Equiet_> mac_v: I thought, that it would be possible to select from what sources to search for the software in the main menu (_Sources).
[15:52] <Equiet_> But, is that chart better than rectangles?
[15:53] <mac_v> Equiet_: seems better.. but how is it without dots for the days where there isnt any history? having dots only for the days which had activity?
[15:58] <Equiet_> Not sure what you mean, but check out my File sharing.
[16:11] <Equiet_> mac_v: What about having only Get Software tab and inside page would be checkbox whether to display also paid software?
[16:14] <mac_v> Equiet_: mpt was really picky about stressing "free" , since the user testing seemed to reveal that users didnt know that they could get software for free
[16:15] <Equiet_> Ok, 2 tabs.
[16:15] <Equiet_> But that makes no place for searchbox. I find it more intuitive to put it into the page.
[16:17] <mac_v> Equiet_: check out how synaptic works for search... you can search and just switch sections
[16:17] <mac_v> Equiet_: thats is how the software center also works
[16:18] <mac_v> Equiet_: history tab will not be shown by default ...
[16:19] <Equiet_> Ok, then... :/
[16:19] <Equiet_> Why?
[16:19] <mac_v> Equiet_: not really essential
[16:19] <mac_v> also "in progress"  is only when something is in progress
[16:21] <Equiet_> So I have to put another tab into already full tab list. Or will the Software Center be fullscreen?
[16:36] <mac_v> Equiet_: i think this was why they wanted to use treeview ;)  ... nope it wont be fullscreen ,
[16:51] <Equiet_> http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/history-v9.png
[17:03] <mac_v> meh... i like the rectangles better... even fspot does the same
[17:07] <Equiet_> mac_v: But users don't know what they means.
[17:08] <Equiet_> *that
[17:11] <mac_v> Equiet_: i would think it would make more sense than what Windows does , it simply makes the text bold in system restore... the problem , i believe , with your impromptu user test was the user wasnt actually using the app... if the user had selected the history , and was the shown the bars it would make more sense
[17:15] <mac_v> Equiet_: how is a bar chart any different than a line chart... if user doesnt understand charts as a whole both are bound to fail... ;)
[17:16] <Equiet_> Let f.e. thorwil decide. :)
[17:16] <Equiet_> *+to
[17:18] <thorwil> Equiet_: the line implies a continuity, a change over time. the bars are more appropiate
[17:19] <Equiet_> Ok...
[17:19] <thorwil> and the bars usefulness might very well be limited to showing where there any events at all. why would one care about the number?
[17:20] <thorwil> they do look cool, of course, and one might argue they can add to user satisfaction because of that ;)
[17:25] <Equiet_> Now I think about reworking the Get Free Software tab.
[17:25] <Equiet_> I don't like the blue color there.
[17:30] <mac_v> Equiet_: i liked the earlier version of the months , from history5 ,  the scroll/scrollbar was more stylised
[17:32] <Equiet_> I don't understand, they are same...
[17:53] <Equiet_> Any other ideas? I'm going to send a suggestion to SoftwareCenter/Comments.
[21:22] <Equiet> Who is developing Human theme? Canonical or community?
[21:23] <DanRabbit1> Equiet: Human theme isn't developed anymore
[21:23] <DanRabbit1> Humanity (the new theme) is community maintained