[00:04] Is there a document that covers setting up an SVN nightly build on a PPA? [00:04] Or maybe I should ask if such a thing is possible for non-privileged users at all? [00:05] nevermind...someone responded on #launchpad finally :) [00:06] :-) [00:06] kb9vqf: Whats Trinity ? [00:07] My KDE3.5 fork...it finally has a name and branch [00:07] See my recent dents ;) [00:07] Why did it need a fork? [00:07] yep [00:07] Upstream will never release a new version [00:07] I can release my own versions though [00:07] So it's kind of a fork === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [00:09] Ok so you are the only developer on it? [00:09] As of this instant, but I am talking with other people who would like to help [00:09] Oh nice ;) [00:10] This way KDE is only involved on the SVN end; they don't have to deal with a bunch of bug reports on software they don't want to see anymore and I get the freedom to enhance as much as I want to [00:10] :) [00:11] I already redirected the file-bugs utilities to my bugtracker and modified the About dialog to make it clear where the development is happening at [00:12] * kb9vqf notes that bzr auto-build is months away...bummer [00:20] nixternal: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-release-team&m=126054911204721&w=2 [00:26] neversfelde: Still test building kdepim. My laptop has been suspended a lot tonight. [00:27] ScottK: good luck :) [00:27] neversfelde: Just didn't want you to think I'd forgotten you. [00:27] no problem [00:30] ScottK: I hope it is ok, I cannot install it for testing here [00:32] I have testers for upgrading from staging ppa \o/ [00:32] Lex79: Bad. We don't want people doing that. [00:32] ScottK: they are my friends, no problem ;) [00:33] Leads to broken systems. [00:33] Gotta run. [00:34] someone has to test it first [00:34] btw I fixed all "trying overwrite" and I fixed plasma-desktop binary package empty, so I think there is no problems now [00:34] *are [01:49] neversfelde: Uploaded. Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu. [03:03] Riddell: before uploading kdebase-workspace you should grab again the package from bzr, I added conflicts/replaces for plasma-widget-windowlist [03:09] Riddell: thanks! [03:16] Not sure about your whip quip...Your piccies on Planet Ubuntu and [03:16] blog.nixternal are frightening. [03:16] maco and Quintasan|Szel ^^ [03:17] told you!, that was just in an email on ubuntu-doc list :) [03:18] you look like you mean serious business on your blog.nixternal pic [03:27] heh, I was actually in an argument in that picture with David Heinemeier Hansson on an 'Open Source Board' at a conference [03:29] http://www.flickr.com/photos/floydwilde/319070064/sizes/l/ <- should I use that one instead? :) [03:29] thats a great picture of your ugly mug [03:35] http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415341167/sizes/l/ <- this one [03:35] this is the "I HATE YOU RUBY BASTARDS WITH YOUR FANCY MACS AND YOUR VENTE LATTES!!!" [03:36] people were taking bets to see who would snap at who on first [03:36] DHH started, and my only response to him was, "You created Ruby on Rails?" Him: "Yes I did", me "Dude, I totally love Fail Whale" [03:37] and everyone busted out laughing....but we hugged afterwards and he is teaching me RoR and I am showing him how to really drink a beer [03:37] http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/3415649532/ [03:37] haha [03:39] http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415472553/ <- that dude is the lead dev of the Motorola Droid phone...after they released the phone, he made enough money that he quit motorola and moved back to spain...I miss that guy, super cool dude [03:40] i really enjoy my droid [03:40] motorala is based in chi-town isn't it? [03:40] * jjesse heads out to walk the dog [03:40] based 2 miles from my crib [03:46] * daskreeCh wants a milestone [03:47] huh? [03:47] THe installer requires you to download? [03:47] When does it do that? === verbalshadow_ is now known as verbalshadow [05:30] ScottK: Ping [05:31] Darkwing-Netbook: Pong [05:31] For the netbook UI in Lucid. Is it normal when you launch an application for it to return to home?: [05:32] Not sure. [05:32] I didn't get it running yet. [05:33] example, I open Internet>Konqueror it will return me to the home screen [05:33] ahh, other UI stuff is a bit... messed up... [05:36] ScottK: http://imagebin.ca/view/EI9UuboO.html [05:37] I'd ask notmart or MoRpHeUs next time you see them in #kubuntu-netbook. [05:38] The main thing that feels off is two query boxes and the offset menu items [05:42] Darkwing-Netbook: You probably need to remove your ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-netbook-appletrc after the upgrade. You shouldn't have two search boxes. [05:42] Darkwing-Netbook: If that fixes it, please file a bug against kubuntu-netbook-default-settings. [05:42] kk [05:50] ROFL! Reporting a bug in Launchpad and launchpad timed out [05:55] normal occurence [05:55] yeah i know, i thought it was a bit funny [05:58] ScottK: says: rm: cannot remove `/home/david/.kde/share/config/plasma-netbook-appletrc': No such file or directory [05:59] Darkwing-Netbook: You've got nothing similar? [05:59] digging [06:01] brb [06:05] Darkwing-Netbook: I need to get to bed. Good luck. [06:07] Hmmm, [06:19] okay, this hurts [06:21] whats the apt-get command for reinstall again? [06:23] * Darkwing-Netbook bashes his head against the wall [06:26] bbl [06:33] kb9vqf: What happened? [06:33] That was fast! [06:34] Bad SATA controller brought down the system [06:34] First time I've seen a "Segmentation faulty" message [06:34] * kb9vqf thinks his data is OK; but still worries that there are 558 minutes left in the rebuild [06:37] This was also the first time I've had an active member of the array have it superblock so corrupted that it reports itself as a spare...that one gave me about 10 minutes of panic :) [06:41] Didn't it have a backup superblock? [06:42] daskreech: I thought they were supposed to; maybe that got corrupted too? [06:42] Checksums were OK though [06:43] Whatever it was, I hope it never happens again; I ended up zeroing the superblock on that drive and rebuilding from the two good ones [06:48] daskreech: Ahhh...here we go, in the syslog. Ever seen this before? http://pastebin.com/f1c32b1db [06:48] After "Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed!" everything failed, including the array [06:49] kb9vqf: Well if the controller is throwing errors that may mean that you need to do a low level hardware check [06:50] Yeah, I'm a bit afraid of that...seems like I keep getting bad mainboards lately [06:50] My desktop only boots if the temperature is above 68 degrees and below 72 or so [06:51] The mythfrontend usually takes several good whacks to start from cold boot [06:51] Etc...sometimes I really hate Chinese goods === LordObama is now known as Unterwelt [06:52] Sounds like you should check the power in your place too [06:52] daskreech: Everything's on UPS [06:53] Power shouldn't be an issue. Power *supplies* on the other hand... [06:53] * kb9vqf recently had one catch fire [06:54] Some of this equipment is what I thought survived the lightning strike in summer, but I wonder if it's a case of the walking dead [06:54] Buy better power supplies [06:55] Monitors and Power suplies I don't mess around with [06:55] Yeah...I have some replacements coming from Ebay, but it gets real expensive to constantly replace stuff :P [06:57] That lighning knocked out a big name brand supply too; I'm thinking I will be replacing everything I had in my house at that time one way or another... [06:57] * kb9vqf shudders [06:59] Hey, do you know if this stuff is auto-generated from the KDE sources or if it was written manually? http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classes.html [07:01] Might be autogened to a skeleton and then fleshed out later [07:05] * kb9vqf needs to know for Trinity [07:27] daskreech: it is auto-generated; I missed alittle line on the bottom: "Generated for API Reference by doxygen 1.5.9-20090814" [07:27] * kb9vqf knows nothing about doxygen though [07:36] kb9vqf: poke nixternal [07:38] Is virtuoso being packaged for Lynx? [07:46] daskreeCh it is on the Todo list as WIP last time i checked [07:47] verbalshadow_: Ok but will not be backported to Koala with KDE SC 4.4 ? [07:48] daskreeCh i don't know the answer to that one [07:48] Ok cool [07:48] I'll check in the morning === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu [12:18] ScottK: kde4libs compiled on arm! uploading now [12:19] shame I have too old arm to use those packages (: [12:56] Tonio_: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-6669 (looks like it was only opened a couple days ago!) [13:13] JontheEchidna: any thoughts on Bug #268939 ? [13:13] Launchpad bug 268939 in software-properties "python2.5 crashed with OSError in _execute_child()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268939 [13:15] That's a bit strange, especially since software-properties-kde depends on the install-package package [13:16] I'd ask the user if it is still an issue for them and for them to check if /usr/bin/install-package is there [13:23] JontheEchidna: morning, seems akonadi configuration is disappeared from system settings, it's only in menu [13:24] Lex79: The akonadi people did that on purpose, it was too easy to use it to mess up your akonadi config [13:25] oh, ok [13:25] JontheEchidna: ok, I did. Thanks! [13:35] uhm Universe build-deps for package in main :) https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/1:2.1.0-0ubuntu3 [13:36] uploaded 3 weeks ago lol [13:51] * Lex79 will do koffice today [14:38] Lex79: I have a package, but it is on my desktop and I will not get back to this till next year. So it would be great, if you could do this :) [15:08] Riddell: Wohoo!. Did you put your additional fix in kdesvn? sebas committed the first one already. [15:08] neversfelde: no problem :) [15:12] ScottK: koffice 2.1 is in experimental, can I do merge? or since it's not yet in Testing I can't ? [15:13] In theory it's fine, but I'd ask Riddell, since I don't track koffice at all. [15:14] ok [15:15] Lure: yes go ahead and merge [15:15] it'll need lots of conflicts/replaces foo-kde4 added [15:17] Lex79 rather [15:17] ok :) [15:19] ScottK: looks like alexis already put the fix in SVN, there's a couple more here we may want to snaffle before trying to build on arm http://cia.vc/stats/author/menard/ [15:22] Riddell: So it looks like kdebase-runtime and kdebase-workspace. [15:35] oh my that thread is getting insanely stupid [15:35] apachelogger: Which one? [15:36] kubuntu-devel about performance [15:37] * jtechidna always loves the mystical "packaging flaw" [15:40] jtechidna: Questions for your other nick in #kubuntu-bugs [16:00] apachelogger: maybe I shouldn't reply it... [16:16] * Lex79 reminds ktorrent to JontheEchidna === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [16:49] this is silly: if people only add the backports PPA, they can't udate Amarok, since it depends on KDE 4.3.3 which is not there anymore [16:49] and here we go for PPA hell again, sick of having complaints 5 times a day [16:51] apachelogger: could you do something about that? like having a definite clear policy so we don't have to point people to x different PPAs? [16:51] right now it's a mess again, somebody remove 4.3.3 from backports and the dependencies are broken [16:56] removed* === Unterwelt is now known as LordObama [16:59] Mamarok: 4.3.3 has never been in Backport ppa for karmic, it was in Update ppa and now there is 4.3.4 [17:00] and amarok 2.2.1 is in Updates ppa [17:04] Lex79: U need some testers for the 4.4 beta in staging? [17:04] Lex79: One of them was in backports for a while. amarok should get moved and it explained on kubuntu.org [17:04] * ScottK meant to do this, but ENOTIME. sorry. [17:05] ScottK: so, where amarok should go? to Updates ? [17:05] Lex79: well, not true it initially was in the backports PPA, guess why it is such a mess now, it was moved later [17:05] Lex79: Yes. [17:06] ScottK: amarok is already in Updates ppa [17:06] IIRC I copied it, but didn't remove it from backports until the announcement could get updated (which I didn't get to) [17:06] and don't forget to update the website :) [17:06] Lex79: It was uploaded to backports, just didn't remove it from backports until the website got updated (seems that was a mistake) [17:06] ah, that's why, so I will point people only to updates [17:07] I sent them to the website :( [17:07] Mamarok: I'm sorry I haven't had time on the web site update. Would you please ping ryanakca and explain it to him. [17:07] Mamarok: yes, this was my point :) [17:07] ok [17:07] ryanakca: ping [17:07] binarylooks: yes, if you want testing the upgrade [17:08] Lex79: guess I was too fast, I installed it a couple of days ago and updated this morning [17:09] binarylooks: succesfully?does it work the upgrade? [17:10] Lex79: it works more or less. I have quite frequent kwin crashes (none at all before) [17:10] Mamarok: pong [17:10] Lex79: there is the virtuoso issue and no sound for kde apps (except konqueror) sound can not be configured at all [17:11] Lex79: i get conflicts with libkipi7 vs libkipi6 [17:11] ryanakca: since the Amarok 2.2.1 packages were moved to the updates PPA, could you adapt the website entry accordingly, please? [17:11] it says backports PPA [17:11] Lex79: and libkdcraw7 vs libkdcraw6 [17:11] stefan_: I know, do you have koffice ? [17:11] Hmmm... does http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/beta/ubuntu depend on other PPAs? I have it setup as http://localhost:9999/kubuntu-beta with approx in my sources.list, but apt seems to still pull ppa.launchpad.net... defying the purpose of having an apt cacher [17:11] Mamarok: Will do [17:11] ryanakca: thanks a lot :) [17:11] Lex79: no [17:13] Lex79: ok remoced the *6 libs - gwenview now was also removed [17:14] Lex79: no broken stuff anymore - will try to reinstall gwenview after the update [17:14] uhm dunno why, we should rebuild something against libkdcraw7 and libkipi7 [17:15] Mamarok: all done [17:15] ryanakca: great, thanks again :) [17:15] ScottK: thank you, too :) [17:15] stefan_: I had similar issues when trying to install the kipi-plugins [17:17] Mamarok: the only sensible way to prevent that kind of issue is to create a ppa for amarok [17:18] which makes that whole ppa mess not exactly better [17:18] apachelogger: nope, since it was built against a later KDE version than default, this did not work [17:18] apachelogger: No, the sensible way is don't upload updates to backports to start with [17:18] why not put it in the same PPA than the KDE version it is built against? [17:18] http://pastebin.com/d33bc8920 ... there is one of these famous "trying to overwrite" bugs ;) === ulysses is now known as ulysses__ [17:19] Mamarok: It should be. [17:19] well, and KDE 4.3.4 was not an update? [17:19] Mamarok: it was only built agaisnt a more recent version because it was built in a conecptually shared ppa [17:19] ScottK: applying ubuntu policy it would have to go to backports :P [17:19] apachelogger: Well we're trying to get that changed. [17:20] anyhow, either way it can technically happen since something might be left over in a staging ppa causing a wrong dep [17:20] apachelogger: For PPAs we want minor versions in updates and major ones in backports [17:20] apachelogger: seriously, I don't care how you folks solve that, but it should not be necessary for people who want to have a newer Amarok version to need two different PPAs to have it working [17:20] that's where the messa started in the first place [17:20] Mamarok: Agreed. [17:20] mess* [17:20] stefan_: thanks, I will fix that, for now you can use sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-runtime-data_4%3a4.3.80-0ubuntu3~karmic1~ppa1_all.deb [17:21] no argument there [17:21] ScottK: do we have a written down policy for that stuff? [17:21] I don't really care how you solve that, but it should be consistent and not change on every new Kubuntu release [17:21] Not sure. [17:21] * apachelogger would not recall reading anything [17:21] * ScottK thought so, but couldn't tell you where [17:21] though I think it was in some spec [17:22] then again specs are not the place to maintain the standing policy [17:22] Lex79: Please also fix that in bzr for Lucid. [17:22] yep [17:23] ScottK: cant find anything [17:23] need to document [17:23] can the staging ppa be made private somehow? [17:24] claydoh: Not really. [17:24] claydoh: good suggestion [17:24] apachelogger: I think claydoh just volunteered to document it. [17:24] * ScottK goes back to $WORK [17:24] ScottK: we could move staging to ninjas [17:24] Lex79: thanks did that already. found another one: http://pastebin.com/d23680122 [17:24] apachelogger: there you go :) [17:25] ScottK: we have some smartass folk who ask silly questions about staging, not caring to read the PPA description [17:25] oh, hold on, I think there was some problem with not being able to copy from private ppa or something [17:25] apachelogger: Perhaps. Now that you can copy private -> public, do we need staging? [17:25] I'll document it, but i need to know what I am documenting [17:25] in the document [17:25] apachelogger: There was, but you can do it now. [17:25] stefan_: thanks :) [17:25] ScottK: oh, cool, we might ened a second one then [17:25] s/ened/need [17:26] in case we need to prepare a kde update and say amarok at the same time [17:26] claydoh: PPA policy. Minor updates go in the updates PPA and major updates in backports. [17:26] which happened fairly often already [17:26] claydoh: btw, do you read the sounder ML? remember the 4 yorkshiremen I sent there from the Kubuntu-users ML? [17:26] claydoh: e.g. for Karmic 4.3.x in updates and 4.4 stuff in backports. [17:26] ScottK: I am all for dropping staging in favor of ninjas though [17:26] Mamarok: goodness, no :) [17:26] now the CC is redefining the sounder description... :) [17:26] lol [17:26] the point of staging ppas is that you can stage without getting users crawl up your nose asking you why kde is broken :P [17:27] Agreed. [17:27] claydoh: wanna document the ppa publishing policy? [17:27] apachelogger: sure [17:28] claydoh, ScottK: I suppose first step would be to thorw out a mail to even get a clear defintion of what goes where [17:28] apachelogger: any particular format I need to follow? [17:29] claydoh: no, just need it written down, so that everyone has a place to check when in doubt [17:29] apachelogger: ok [17:29] ScottK: who test the stuff in ninja for karmic if you drop staging ppa ? [17:29] Lex79: those i didn't have to force - just ran upgrade twice :) http://pastebin.com/m34d9ab16 http://pastebin.com/m682b3fcc [17:29] Lex79: apart from that it was as smooth as it could be :)) [17:30] Lex79: the one who uploads stuff :P [17:30] stefan_: thanks for that [17:30] Lex79: or we could introduce a testing ppa [17:30] but really, that would be weird [17:30] too many ppa's imo [17:30] Lex79: coooool now i could even reinstall gwenview :) [17:31] see you after reboot [17:31] apachelogger: we have no time for do the backports, so we have no time really for testing. Since I do every time the backports alone [17:31] * claydoh emails -devel [17:31] Lex79: that needs to be fixed then [17:31] Lex79: also, "no time"? [17:32] as in, too little time between finishing lucid and kde release? [17:33] Note to self: Save then commit. Not the other way around. [17:34] ScottK: btw, bug 489616 [17:34] Launchpad bug 489616 in blueprint "Full specifications should be managed inside launchpad" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489616 [17:35] Good luck on that. [17:38] claydoh: btw about the too many ppas - bug 373197 [17:38] Launchpad bug 373197 in soyuz "Virtual PPA" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373197 [17:38] update worked great for me - thanks alot for your work :) [17:38] apachelogger: I just know we need testers and put the stuff in staging is the better way for now. If you want move staging to private we should give access to private ppa [17:38] and it's bad [17:39] stefan_: you're welcome [17:39] hm [17:39] and if you want add a new ppa "Testing"...for me is the same to have "staging" ppa [17:39] Lex79: well, doing staging out in the open is certainly no good either [17:39] agree [17:40] huh? the whole point of staging is it's for building and testing [17:40] nono, staging is for building [17:40] not testing [17:40] and make staging a private ppa ? :) [17:40] also the point is it's out in the open since it's used to copy stuff to the for-users PPA, you can't copy from a private PPA [17:40] if a user does upgrade mid-staging his system might explode [17:41] Riddell: ScottK says copy from private to public is possible now [17:41] Riddell: yes, now you can [17:41] "PPA description For the love of the blue gears, DO NOT USE." that's pretty clear to me [17:41] Apparently not clear enough for others. [17:41] that's not what jules the soyuz man told me at UDS [17:41] Riddell: users don't read the description [17:42] s/the description// ;) [17:42] Riddell: I did copy stuff from the ninja PPA to staging. [17:42] I guess we should make sure that's not just a bug that might get fixed at any time before relying on it. [17:43] apachelogger: ? :) [17:44] Maybe keeping users updated about what is happening in the ppa or when they might expect a release might help a bit? [17:45] Its a little bit frustrating when opensuse users or chakra users or whatever can play around with the new stuff and kubuntu is behind [17:46] not so much when opensuse or chakra users run into upgrade problems :P [17:46] apachelogger: I admit I do not know how their upgrades went :-) [17:47] Anyway, I thought PPAs could be private, no? [17:48] If they shouldn't be used, hide them from impatient and sometimes clueless users [17:57] binarylooks: as to others like arch, I just bunged up my young arch install trying to get kde 4.4, and I thought I had read enough info in order to do so [17:58] so its not all peaches and cream everywhere else either :) [17:59] claydoh: u're right. patience is a virtue I do not have :-) [18:00] but an honest use-at-your-own-risk ppa specifically for testing is probably vital for a future stable release [18:01] claydoh: thats why I started testing, but u never know if a bug u encounter is halbaked packaging or real [18:02] *halfbaked [18:11] again with the 'bad packaging' meme :/, very popular today === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [18:38] just got a crash in lucid alpha, the crash reporting assistant doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to (e.g. allow me to report)... === nielsslot_ is now known as nielsslot [18:47] maco: any progress on the kmess? [18:47] * apachelogger giggles [19:02] hehe [19:17] well, my desktop finally gave up the ghost again === ulysses is now known as ulysses__ [19:49] sabdfl: considering what is going on in GNOME currently (check Slashdot), I'd really rethink your choices. you're the boss, but the whole thing cannot possibly end well [19:49] I'm just a lowly FOSS coder, but consider this as good advice :) [19:59] markey: the let's-split-off-from-GNU thing? [19:59] that's part of it. I'm guess you are able to collect the whole picture === ulysses is now known as ulysses__ [20:00] markey: I think its a big fuss over nothing [20:01] GNOME will still be GNU licensed [20:01] they just won't consider themselves part of the FSF or anything like that [20:02] the whole mess is just cause stallman wants to impose certain restrictions on what the GNOME people can or can't talk about on certain sites...etc [20:02] I have a feeling it will all blow over in a day or so [20:02] we'll see about that. [20:03] in reality, the whole conflict goes much deeper [20:03] (if you have been following for the last years) [20:03] this been coming [20:03] has been* [20:03] indeed [20:04] I still think it's not a good idea to increasingly rely on mono, for instance [20:04] it's easy to see what has been happening there, you don't have to be an analyst to tell [20:04] true [20:05] they might be able to get out of this for now, or maybe not [20:05] but the conflict will stay [20:05] well... I think lots of the reliance on mono stems from the fact that it makes using gtk bearable [20:05] the api are arguably cleaner in mono/c# [20:05] that is not an excuse, at all [20:06] if their toolkit is unbearable without resorting to proprietary solutions, maybe they should look into using another toolkit then [20:06] it may not be an excuse, but when a developer has to write an app... the time it takes to write that app matters [20:06] yea... but thats another debate and problem in and of itself [20:06] I personally can't understand why people wouldn't use Qt nowadays anyway, all GTK code I've seen made me wanting to poke my eyeballs out with a rusty spork [20:06] many will argue that you need to have a solid c gui toolkit [20:07] but if they're using mono, they're not using c [20:07] others will say those people are nuts and holding onto old times [20:07] kubotu: order cookies for Sput [20:07] * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to Sput. [20:07] Sput: this just made my day :D [20:07] haha [20:07] :) [20:07] I mean...I think all of us here will like Qt over gtk... and truthfully... I do think Qt is far superior from an API standpoint [20:08] awesome, I was in a bad mood few seconds ago [20:08] and they have this Vala thing, which I personally find stupid, but apparently it makes using GTK bearable without being proprietary [20:08] but people have been using gtk and hacking it to fit their needs for a while [20:08] so many are just faimilar with it and don't see the issues [20:08] shtylman_: that could well be, but doesn't explain why they want to use C# then [20:09] either you love your toolkit and keep hacking on it because of that, or you use some completely new API, but then you could as well use a saner choice than proprietary crap [20:09] personally... the "hello world" example on the gtk and qt wikipedia pages tells me all I need to know about using qt over gtk [20:09] (and I'm calling Mono proprietary even though some people claim it's free :P) [20:09] its not really free [20:09] and it will never be up to the full c# spec... cause there ISN'T ONE [20:10] c# is an implementation [20:10] it's just ironic that the same guy who invented gNOme because Qt was supposedly not free enough is now brownnosing MS [20:10] its not like c++ which is a spec with many implementations [20:10] haha indeed [20:10] didn [20:10] *didn't think about that [20:10] it's the main beef I have with Miguel [20:11] speaking of it, why don't we just hack all computers with gtk source code and point whole data to /dev/null? :P [20:11] well..people do change their mind [20:11] if someone else would be doing Mono because he was being paid by MS or just for the fun of it, I'd say "yeah, well, another idiot getting lured over by MS"... but Miguel should know better [20:11] ah well. [20:11] I'm not using a DE that depends on Mono, thank $deity :) [20:11] heh [20:12] 14:10:11 [ Sput] it's just ironic that the same guy who invented gNOme because Qt was supposedly not free enough is now brownnosing MS [20:12] wow, I never even thought about that [20:12] damn I really lost feel of time [20:12] all this is a petty Dick-Measuring contest. look at the big picture, there is more to it than technical implementation details [20:12] ethical and technical sides [20:12] all this plays together [20:13] to form a complex symphony of hurt [20:13] I don't really use kde over gnome for any philosophical reasons... I find that kde works better for how I need to get things done and is more forward thinking... I also use Qt for my own things so in a way it makes sense to run the same toolkit and have things integrate well [20:13] anyways, I could care less what GNOME does, as long as they choose a path that is good for everyone....right now we, KDE/Qt fanbois, need to concentrate on getting our market share back [20:13] nixternal: and it gets more ironic that a lot of gNOmies keep saying that Miguel wasn't gnome, and that he isn't in any way important for gnome, so whatever he does has no bearing on gnome... while at the same time he posts these things using his miguel@gnome.org mail address [20:14] moar cookies for nixternal === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [20:14] more market share for us [20:14] working on that :) [20:14] also free n900 form Nokia for all of us :P [20:14] * Sput notes that he gets a lot of xchat users converted to Quassel lately [20:14] before Ubuntu, KDE was where it was at, for so many using the desktop....now, with some mistakes made in the past, I think we need to stop licking our wounds (ie. 4.0) and look forward for KDE [20:14] * Quintasan wants a new phone, his nokia e61 is getting more and more boring [20:15] whether brown eggs are better than blue eggs, lets have the users decide :D [20:15] nixternal: yeah, quite sad that ubuntu got popular enough by pushing the inferior toolkit/DE :/ [20:15] just imagine ubuntu would've been KDE based from the start [20:16] I was in the grocery store the other day, and they had brown eggs and blue eggs...I instantly said, "OOH! Ubuntu and Kubuntu eggs" :) [20:16] lol [20:16] somehow, our grocery stores don't have blue eggs. [20:16] Sput: althought we can all say imagine.. its not actually clear how it would have effected the community [20:16] Sput: I wanted to say we should brible Mark but I guess that's quite not possible ;P [20:16] shtylman_: true too [20:17] I can argue till the end of time about the merrits of Qt and whatnot... but it really depends on the developers canonical got and what they were happy and familiar with [20:17] hmm just crossed my mind, when the next UDS place will be disscussed? [20:17] * claydoh wants a phone or netbook for xmas, a full tank of heating oil, and for someone to politely smack the 'bad packaging' dude in -devel [20:17] shtylman_: in the end it depends on what kind of developers Canonical wants to pay [20:17] gnome has (in my mind) always been that DE that spawned cause people were uptight about licenses versus technological reasons... and truthfully... that was a valid concern at the time [20:18] first, we need to get Kubuntu to the point where people are purchasing support contracts for it...once this happens, we might have more of a leg to stand on [20:18] Qt was not open source and the development was very closed off for a while [20:18]