/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/12/#ubuntu-ops.txt

bazhangPhantomLink, hi00:29
PhantomLinkhi01:10
PhantomLinkentire valley lost internet/tv services01:11
bazhangoh its seaphor and friends01:44
grex23how come i come here02:01
grex23lame02:01
bazhangyou are forwarded here02:01
bazhangwhoops02:01
FlannelAnacranom seems to be soapboxing02:01
bazhangyep seaphor02:02
FlannelIs that seaphor?02:02
bazhangand adm1 is from the same channel02:02
FlannelHe was oddly persistent and rude02:02
bazhanglast time I tried to help him he called my advice 'totally worthless'02:02
Flannelbazhang: You're talking to him, right?02:39
bazhangFlannel, yep02:39
bazhangnot booted him.. yet02:39
bazhanghis first response: f off02:39
bazhangyikes02:40
ubottuCShadowRun called the ops in #ubuntu ()02:49
wgrantBan list full.02:49
bazhangyowie02:50
ubottuDasEi2 called the ops in #ubuntu (TinyIRC)02:50
bazhangcleared 3 of mine02:51
Flannelgot him02:51
bazhangthere are a ton of exempts02:51
Flannel+e list is separate from +b list, as far as I know02:51
bazhangokay. will get rid of some of the older bans relegated to freenode.02:52
ardchoilleI've been helping out in #ubuntu for years. Is there any chance on becoming an op? If so, what would I need to do?02:54
bazhangmight be a good idea to have a set limit on some of these bans; the ban and forget list has gotten out of hand03:00
wgrantbazhang: Yeah, the list is pretty crazy.03:00
bazhangI have gone through the list previously, but hardly any of the lists I posted were addressed at all03:00
bazhangwgrant, at this point I am tempted to just clear some of other people's older bans (ie over a month old)03:01
wgrantbazhang: I'd say that03:01
wgrant...'s a very good idea03:02
bazhanghaving one space in the ban list (currently) is nuts03:02
wgrantLooks like we might have to use it soon, too...03:02
bazhangardchoille, sorry a bit busy at the moment :)03:02
ardchoillebazhang: Ah, ok.. I'll come back and ask again later, would that be best?03:03
bazhangardchoille, or just hang around when someone free has time :) *I* am busy (or shortly will be) :)03:04
ardchoilleok03:04
ardchoilleI think antlong in #ubuntu needs a hint03:04
ardchoillelooks like he posted "rm -rf /home"03:04
wgrantI'll ban him if he continues.03:04
ardchoillethanks03:04
ardchoilleI'd love to become an op and help the channel out more than I currently am able03:05
bazhangany objections to removal of bans more than a month? its currently unworkable03:05
wgrantAt least a few.03:05
wgrantWe will need them.03:05
bazhangokay03:06
bazhangwhoops03:07
ardchoillewhat happened?03:08
bazhangtab mis-complete there wgrant03:08
wgrantardchoille: yes, sorry. mistabbed. You're free now.03:08
bazhangat ban ardchoille instead of antlong03:08
ardchoilleAh, I'm back, thanks03:08
bazhanghehe03:08
wgrantDamn.03:08
wgrantSorry.03:08
ardchoilleno worries :)03:09
* wgrant disappears for a few.03:11
Flannelbazhang: Don't remove my bans, they're all trimmed03:12
bazhangFlannel, none that I see named by you; the older netsplitted ones that are relegated to server.freenode.net03:13
Flannelbazhang: I've got some that are from november03:14
bazhangie old ompaul, LjL etc03:14
FlannelAnd then two really old ones that just happened to be me03:14
bazhangfrom 2008 (early)03:14
bazhangand some of the botnet ones that were klined03:14
bazhangFlannel, if I do mistakenly remove any, I will reinstate; but having zero spaces right now, expedience dictates some action03:15
Flannelbazhang: reinstating removed bans is basically impossible (because you can't find them).  Instead, remove old forwards (last time I tried, there were old forwards that didn't actually exist, so I gave up)03:16
Flannelbazhang: Even having 10 or 20 spaces (which I think we've got now) will suffice.03:16
bazhangFlannel, right.03:16
Flannelbazhang: Once we're usable, compile a list of old, purgable bans, and then you can have people review them for things that ought not be purged03:17
bazhangFlannel, I have done that, on *three* different occasions; not going to go for four, thanks.03:17
bazhangat any rate, there are enough spaces for the near term. but I seriously believe that the ban and forget mode has to change, and getting folks to remove them in a relatively modest time frame (whatever that turns out to be) is something that needs to be addressed. the full banlist is but a symptom of a larger issue03:19
tsimpsonardchoille: generally the line is "we appoint operators, when we see there is a need, from the active contributors in the channel", but the council are all but non existent right now so I don't expect any operators to be created in the short term03:31
Flannelbazhang: Alright, then be grumpy about it.03:32
bazhangFlannel, sorry if I came across that way.03:32
ardchoilletsimpson: Thank you for the reply. If you ever need an extra op, keep me in mind.03:32
tsimpsonardchoille: when the IRCC are elected, please do come back and ask about it03:33
bazhangjust being hit with antlong plus seaphor's concern trolling plus full banlist was a bit of a patience tester. My apologies Flannel03:33
ardchoilletsimpson: Will do03:33
Flannelbazhang: If you do it saying "I'll be clearing these bans unless they get removed" means that if people don't respond, you just remove them.  They should be old bans anyway, so on average, they'd be OK to remove, you just give people a chance to review them beforehand, just in case03:33
FlannelBug team has bug days, we should have a ban review day!03:36
bazhangexcellent idea!03:36
bazhangfive-a-day, even!03:54
sebsebsebhi03:54
bazhangsebsebseb, you know why the floodbot banned you03:54
bazhang-sebsebseb/#ubuntu- test03:55
sebsebsebyes03:55
bazhangsebsebseb, please don't do that again.03:56
sebsebsebok I won't03:57
bazhangyou are unbanned sebsebseb ; feel free to rejoin #ubuntu03:58
sebsebsebwell I was still in there, I just coudn't send messages03:59
sebsebseb,but yes thanks for the ban removeale03:59
bazhangright, well feel free to rejoin in whichever capacity03:59
sebsebsebok well04:00
sebsebsebyou want me to leave here now I assume?04:01
bazhangsebsebseb, was there some other issue you wished to discuss ?04:01
sebsebsebbazhang: no04:01
bazhangsebsebseb, okay, then please , to keep the channel free for those with issues, thanks04:02
sebsebsebthanks again bye04:02
wgrantbazhang: That's around the third warning.05:32
bazhangwgrant, he was at it yesterday as well05:32
wgrantbazhang: Oh, lovely.05:32
wgrantbazhang: Does he deserve any more leniency?05:33
bazhangwgrant, he is mostly saying random things, but telling git__ that everyone using ubuntu has to install from scratch is something new with him05:33
wgrantbazhang: Looks like he's ceased trolling since he saw you.05:36
bazhangwgrant, I did give him a remove yesterday, perhaps he still recalls it05:37
wgrantMmmmmmmm. That was borderline.05:44
bazhanggoing to remove coofish if he continues, will first PM05:47
wgrantOh, sorry, missed that.05:50
wgrantAlready got rid of him.05:50
bazhangno response via PM05:50
wgrantHe just wandered back in.05:50
LordObamawhy does ardchoille bother joining this channel ever other day if he hates us so much>06:27
FlannelLordObama: What?06:28
LordObamahe quit all ubuntu/kubuntu stuff a while back06:28
LordObamabut it seems i see him in -ops complaining every other day06:29
=== LordObama is now known as Unterwelt
wgrantbazhang: I think it's about time to ban him.06:57
FlannelOh, he was aleady removed06:57
Flannelwell, bugger.06:57
wgrantThat's the third timein a couple of hours.06:57
bazhanghe is trolling in #debian as well if there was ever any doubt06:57
wgrantOK, I'll ban him next time.06:58
wgrantOr now.06:58
FlannelI hate double dipping, and he rejoined before I could snag the ban.06:58
wgrantI don't know.06:58
Flannelor now.  That settles that!06:58
wgrantHe's been at it long enough.06:58
bazhangI have a PM window open with him, see if he responds now06:59
wgrantUnlikely, but we'll see.06:59
wgrantIs that ban evasion I spy?07:05
wgrantbazhang: Any response?07:05
bazhangwgrant, not a peep07:05
wgrantBack again.07:15
FlannelThat may hold him.07:18
* wgrant must remember that trick.07:18
gnomefreakany freenode staffers around?07:30
mneptok@login07:38
ubottuThe operation succeeded.07:38
mneptokphix appears to be evading in #u. bazhang, his last ban was yours.07:39
Flannelphrix you mean?07:41
Flanneloh, phix is another person07:41
bazhangmneptok, that was just a remove07:42
bazhangmneptok, ikonia did a name ban on him in July of this year07:43
bazhangie  phix!*@*07:43
Tm_Thi07:56
gnomefreakhi08:19
wgrantWhat is this MrBoom?08:25
Tm_Tsilly things happen in #f11:54
ubottuIn ubottu, mac9416 said: !keryx is <reply> Keryx is a portable, cross-platform package manager for APT-based (Ubuntu, Debian) systems. It provides a graphical interface for gathering updates, packages, and dependencies for offline computers - See also !offline14:28
ubottuIn ubottu, mac9416 said: !offline is <reply> If you need to download Ubuntu packages using another machine or OS, check the desired packages in Synaptic and select File > Generate package download script. Alternatively, try http://apt.alturl.com/ - See also !APTonCD and !keryx14:29
MenZa!offline14:35
ubottuIf you need to download Ubuntu packages using another machine or OS, check the desired packages in Synaptic and select File > Generate package download script. Alternatively, try http://apt.alturl.com/ - See also !APTonCD14:35
ubottuLjL called the ops in #ubuntu (IRC-666)14:37
Priceyjpds: spoken to them?14:38
ubottugrawity called the ops in #ubuntu (qqqq)14:38
jpdsPricey: No.14:39
jpdsPricey: Obvious troll is obvious, and my life is too short/busy to bother. ;)14:40
psinetic_question.14:40
Priceyjpds: "not enough time" should not be an acceptable excuse.14:41
bazhangpsinetic_, hi14:41
Pricey"reason" sorry, not "excuse"14:42
psinetic_i was in #ubuntu-offtopic, member by the name "NoCode" says a cuss word, I do what everyone else does and use the !language command. he replies "Psinetic, do not abuse the bot." nothing more was mentioned etc. etc. this happens every single time i use that code, and i never ever use it unless it's supposed to be used. everytime i even say the slightest word, even something that's not necessarily a cuss word, i get bashed for it, but i get told to14:43
psinetic_"not abuse the bot" everytime i use it...is this....normal?14:43
bazhangpsinetic_, I noticed you are using #ubuntu-offtopic for support a great deal of late.14:43
Priceypsinetic_: The bot has lots of useful information. How would you feel though if I answered this question with a bot reply?14:43
Priceypsinetic_: Would you much rather I actively discussed things with you instead?14:44
psinetic_i'd be perfectly fine with that pricey14:44
Priceypsinetic_: You wouldn't prefer us having this discussion?14:44
psinetic_i would prefer it yes14:44
PriceyI do too :-)14:44
PriceyPeople will react much better to real people than bots.14:44
PriceySure, people should stay family friendly in #ubuntu-offtopic14:45
psinetic_bazhang, yes i have been using offtopic for support lately, because i've been dealing with alot of problems lately and haven't been getting much help with them in the support channel. i find that often when i ask in the offtopic channel i get help alot faster and i tend to know who's helping me14:45
PriceyBut encouraging that with your own talk will be much more effective than just !language each time.14:45
Priceybazhang: Has psinetic_ been disruptive?14:45
psinetic_Pricey, i understand that, but why do they use the bot on me all the time instead of just saying to not cuss?14:45
Priceypsinetic_: You sound as though you don't like them using the bot on you all the time ;-)14:46
Priceypsinetic_: Its the same thing.14:46
bazhangPricey, have you read the /topic in #ubuntu-offtopic ? does that apply equally to all ?14:46
psinetic_hmmm makes sense.14:46
Priceypsinetic_: If only we were all lovely, nice, considerate people :-)14:46
Priceybazhang: Ops are around to keep the channel a nice place to be & prevent disruption IMO.14:47
psinetic_hmmmm if only i were able to control my temper better online XD14:47
Priceybazhang: We're not around to make sure people abide by the /topic14:47
Priceypsinetic_: We're all guilty of it occasionally.14:47
bazhangPricey, best to change the topic there to reflect that; some users actually read it and think it is valid14:48
Priceybazhang: No no, its valid.14:48
bazhangPricey, so the problem with directing users to #ubuntu for support then ?14:49
psinetic_ok, i was just wondering what my response should have been, i mean, i just left it alone, but to be honest lately i've been feeling a bit cut-throat because of how much they just slam me with it but are double-minded when i do it back. sometimes it's almost as if i'm just targeted and everyone else gets away with it14:49
Priceybazhang: If that's the best thing for the user(s), sure.14:49
psinetic_bazhang, i'll use #ubuntu for now on14:50
Priceybazhang: However I don't think its important to bring up in this discussion.14:50
Priceypsinetic_: It isn't easy, and yeah, you're not the only one that feels like that.14:50
Priceypsinetic_: I would advise that PMs are better than bot commands in channel though.14:51
PriceyNot that you should PM *everyone* who says something naughty...14:51
psinetic_hmmmmmmm alright, pms i can do.14:51
psinetic_well, i get botted everytime i say something naughty14:52
Priceydoesn't make it ok to bot them back14:52
psinetic_so...when they bot me, should i respond the same way NoCode did? and tell them not to abuse the bot and to please pm me on first warnings?14:53
Priceypsinetic_: There's another option14:53
psinetic_oh?14:53
PriceyNot respond.14:53
psinetic_haha14:53
* psinetic_ 's human intentions make him want to respond XD14:54
psinetic_ok, well now that we got that settled. i had a bit of a suggestion14:54
psinetic_i've been on the #ubuntu irc for months now, several months. i've had my good times, and my bad times14:55
PriceyHehe well hardly settled :-)14:55
psinetic_one thing i've noticed is that as a support channel the #ubuntu channel is not organized well. let me explain as to not jump to conclusions14:55
psinetic_a user comes in, and posts a question14:56
psinetic_they wait about 10 mins14:56
psinetic_maybe ask it again14:56
psinetic_or sometimes they'll wait about 30 minutes14:56
psinetic_what they don't know is that someone in the background is actively searching for an answer14:56
psinetic_but they're just there waiting14:56
PriceyYep, its far from perfect & the answers you get depend on who just happens to be there at the time.14:56
PriceyLjL did look at hte problem a little and made a bot to help with it, I forget hte name atm.14:57
psinetic_i know i've been extremely frustrated and just don't feel like waiting and reading and waiting some more.14:57
psinetic_i think what we need is this:14:57
psinetic_we need more structure in the way questions are asked and answered14:57
psinetic_asked well, doesn't matter really14:57
psinetic_just ask the question14:57
psinetic_lol14:57
psinetic_but answered14:57
psinetic_i think if someone's looking for the answer, they should let the guy know14:57
psinetic_for example:14:58
psinetic_hey guys, i'm having problems with such and such14:58
Priceyahh right, i get what you mean14:58
psinetic_convos go on about diff things14:58
psinetic_on and on14:58
psinetic_someone notices14:58
psinetic_psinetic_ i'm looking for an answer now, please wait14:58
psinetic_ok cool, so now i know someone is looking, so i stop asking over and over again looking for a response14:58
psinetic_cleans the board up14:58
psinetic_saves network bandwidth14:58
psinetic_makes it easier and more fluid to ask and answer questions14:59
psinetic_all you gotta do is tell the guy you're actively looking for an answer14:59
psinetic_what do you think?14:59
PriceyThat's certainly no bad idea.14:59
PriceyThe problem is, how to get people doing it. I can only think of leading by example.15:00
psinetic_leading by example yes15:00
psinetic_possibly even leaving hints here and there15:00
psinetic_i mean one thing i DON'T see is a common message being pushed out as a reminder every oh, 30 mins to an hour15:00
psinetic_giving basic instructions15:00
psinetic_like the /topic15:00
psinetic_it'd be nice to have that posted in the irc every so ofter so people would read and know15:01
psinetic_also like announcements15:01
psinetic_my /topic is at the very top of the screen on a single line, i almost never read it15:01
PriceyWhen you join a channel, most clients display it pretty obviously.15:03
psinetic_hmmm mine doesn't for some reason15:03
Priceyoh it does15:04
psinetic_eh?15:04
psinetic_i never see it15:04
Pricey /cycle15:04
Priceygot it/15:04
psinetic_now i see it15:04
Pricey:-)15:04
Pricey(People don't read those things)15:04
psinetic_but i didn't when i first joined15:05
psinetic_XD15:05
psinetic_hmmmmmmm.....15:05
psinetic_i'm trying to think of a way to let it be known and common knowledge for any structural changes in an irc chat.15:06
psinetic_people don't read those things because they're blocky. i see a bunch of text and skip right over it, course i usually don't see it at all.15:06
psinetic_if they were line by line they'd read them easier15:06
PriceyHow do you know its important?15:07
psinetic_it's a different color15:07
psinetic_but what if i'm color blind :P15:08
Priceyallowing colours would probably be more disruptive15:08
psinetic_what if we had a bot that would periodically make comments in the chat that appeared red to the chatter giving bits and pieces of the /topic or methods at which questions and answers are done i'm sure would help the situation15:09
psinetic_yes you're right colors would be more disruptive15:09
PriceyYou can't enable colours for justone user.15:09
psinetic_hmmm that would take up alot of bandwidth too15:09
jussi01Metabot15:10
psinetic_metabot?15:10
jussi011 sec, Ill grab a wiki page15:10
psinetic_kk15:11
jussi01Hrm, cant see it right this second...15:13
jussi01but you can see an agregation of questions in #metabot15:13
psinetic_hehe, "hmmmmm" isn't acceptable XD15:13
psinetic_oh so it tells you when someone asks a question?15:14
jussi01psinetic_: please dont talk in there15:14
jussi01no, when a question goes unanswered.15:14
psinetic_oh....nifty15:15
psinetic_even still, the amount of text and space saved from not having people constantly ask their questions over and over again only because no one has told them that they're looking for an answer would be massive15:15
psinetic_and it'll make the support atmosphere much more fluint15:15
ubottuIn ubottu, ActionParsnip said: !clickflash is If you have an issue with 'clicking' on the player, and not being able pause or fast forward, this is an easy quick fix - http://helpforlinux.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-cannot-click-on-flash-in-ubuntu.html15:16
ubottuIn ubottu, ActionParsnip said: !noclickflash is If you have an issue with 'clicking' on the player, and not being able pause or fast forward, this is an easy quick fix - http://helpforlinux.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-cannot-click-on-flash-in-ubuntu.html15:17
jussi01psinetic_: again as Pricey has said, its very hard to communicate that, so best just to lead by example.15:17
jussi01psinetic_: actually, what you really want is #ubuntu-meta15:17
psinetic_i just don't like that though. because if the people dont know that the norm, then they won't do it. if it's at least put out there, they're more likely to do it. if u ask a question, and i just tell you i'm looking for the answer, cool. but the other guys helping won't make the connection, and keep doing things the same.15:18
jussi01psinetic_: we already communicate to people not to repeat too much, so that also helps15:18
jussi01!repeat15:19
ubottuDon't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org while you wait.15:19
psinetic_hmmmmmm15:19
psinetic_jussi01, i don't know. i'm a computer technician with the military, i'm just use to the way we run support. we always let them know we're working on it so as to give them ease of mind, it makes our job alot easier15:20
psinetic_ok well, just a suggestion15:22
psinetic_i'll leave you guys to it :)15:22
psinetic_thanks for the clarification15:22
jussi01no probs, please dont think we are ignoring it )15:23
psinetic_no i know you're not, it's a big support irc, u guys have alot of things going on in the background the rest of us don't see. :)15:24
psinetic_haha, maybe if i can calm my temper down i can join u guys in the ops someday15:24
psinetic_hahaha15:24
psinetic_see you guys later15:24
bazhangPricey, my apologies for bringing it up. I thought it relevant or I would not have done so.15:24
ikoniafyi: I'm looking at Ompauls bans, I'm just waiting for an email response at the moment15:52
bazhangalready removed a couple15:52
ikoniayup, hence why I'm mentioning it15:53
bazhangkind of an emergency earlier today :)15:53
ikoniatotally, I've been reading the scroll back15:54
bazhang'ubuntu-related' torrents16:00
* jpds rolls-eyes.16:02
bazhangvlc!16:02
jpdsWoo.16:12
ikoniafreenode's been having a hard time with splits over the last few weeks16:13
=== Unterwelt is now known as LordObama
ubottuaaron11 called the ops in #ubuntu (kaduk)17:48
=== SWAT_ is now known as SWAT
mac9416Hey y'all, I submitted some ubottu factoids earlier. Just wanted to let you know so you can approve/reject them.20:06
ikoniathanks20:06
mac9416np. I wasn't sure how often y'all checked for them, so I wanted to point you to them. Thanks.20:07
=== eviljuss101 is now known as eviljussi01
ubottuCShadowRun called the ops in #ubuntu (James_d)22:00
ubottuIdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu (James__d)22:00
FlannelHowdy Augusto, how can we help you today?22:24
=== LordObama is now known as Obama-da-PIMP
=== Obama-da-PIMP is now known as fugly
=== fugly is now known as vorian
ubottuardchoille called the ops in #ubuntu (wvc continues off-topic)23:38
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (banlist full)23:52
FlannelThere's three!23:54
jussi013?23:55
jussi01Flannel: could you check the FB bans?23:55
* jussi01 is about to head out to grab girlfriend...23:55
Flanneljussi01: I'll take a look, yeah23:56
jussi01Flannel: thanks a million.23:56

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