[00:05] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[00:05] <_Groo_> i'm using radeon dri2/kms (im using for a long time now), since i upgraded to lucid with kde 4.4 beta 1 i cant activate compositing anymore. it works with compiz but not kwin.
[00:12] <yofel> _Groo_: the kde4.4beta release page says that compositing doesn't work for some hardware, maybe you're affected by that
[00:13] <_Groo_> yofel: it always worked since 4.0, and compiz is working
[00:13] <_Groo_> yofel: also, is the printer settings broken too?
[00:14] <yofel> _Groo_: see Known Problems http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.4-beta1.php
[00:14] <yofel> dunno about the printer settings, I use hplip
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> printer settings are probably because the python bindings are still at KDE 4.3.3
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> but kdebindings fails to build in beta, which is typical each kde release
[00:15] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ahh true.. kdebindings are for 4.3.3
[00:15] <_Groo_> 4.3.4
[00:16] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: lol yeah, true
[00:17] <DanaG> grr, kde 4.4 deals badly with multiple monitors.
[00:17] <DanaG> The second monitor's background is in front of everything else.
[00:17] <_Groo_> yofel: some hardware is vage at least
[00:17] <yofel> _Groo_: well, I don't know more than that, sry
[00:17] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: are you using 4.4? can you tell me if the clipboard (klipper) is broken?
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> works fine here
[00:17] <yofel> _Groo_: works for me
[00:18] <yofel> (klipper)
[00:18] <DanaG> And plasma segfaults all the time.... tons and tons of times.
[00:19] <_Groo_> yofel: very strange :P
[00:19] <yofel> not here, I have a (fixed upstream) kwin crash sometimes, but otherwise kde works fine
[00:19] <yofel> ah, about klipper: was 'use selection' turned on by default in kde4.3?
[00:19] <yofel> I thought that it was broken at first too
[00:20] <_Groo_> yofel: where do i set that?
[00:21] <yofel> _Groo_: I set 'ignore selection' in the settings to get it to work as I expected
[00:21] <_Groo_> yofel: you are joking?
[00:21] <_Groo_> yofel: its the negative???
[00:21] <yofel> _Groo_: no, what I mean is: I DO NOT want it to use the selection
[00:22] <yofel> I often replace selected text, which doesn't work with selection copy enabled
[00:22] <_Groo_> yofel: doesnt work, always empty and i do have selection
[00:23] <DanaG> SEcondary monitor (actually, the thing I WANT to have be primary!) is showing only a static image.
[00:23] <_Groo_> yofel: and it always crashes on exit
[00:23] <yofel> _Groo_: oh, might have seen that crash too, doesn't happen always though
[00:24] <_Groo_> yofel: im installing kdelibs5 dbs and qt4.5 dbg so i can report the bugs...
[00:27] <DanaG> grr, using two different-dpi displays resets the thing back to 96 dpi!
[00:27] <DanaG> GRR.
[00:28] <xray7224> im going for the upgrade
[00:28] <xray7224> :P
[00:28] <xray7224> its updating to lucid now :D
[00:28] <yofel> xray7224: good luck
[00:28] <xray7224> thanks :P
[00:28] <yofel> :P
[00:29] <DanaG> grr, plasma died again.
[00:29] <xray7224> hehe
[00:29] <yofel> DanaG: still using compiz?
[00:29] <DanaG> Yup.
[00:29] <DanaG> kwin compositing isn't working.
[00:29] <DanaG> In fact, it isn't even TRYING to work.
[00:30] <BUGabundo> xray7224: via what method ?
[00:30] <DanaG> It thinks it is working, though... it shows it "enabled" in kde!
[00:30] <_Groo_> DanaG: same problem here
[00:30] <DanaG> er, in systemsettings.
[00:30] <xray7224> BUGabundo, just update-manager -d
[00:30] <BUGabundo> ok
[00:30] <BUGabundo> just making sure :)
[00:30] <_Groo_> DanaG: mine just enables if i have compiz running, but never really works.. if you restart kde without any compositing it fails miserably
[00:32] <DanaG> grr, kde doesn't acknowledge xrandr dpi changes.
[00:53] <mysticdarkhack> Hey
[00:53] <mysticdarkhack> anyone here know where I can edit for the kernel startup
[00:54] <mysticdarkhack> there no menu.lst
[00:54] <yofel> !grub2 | mysticdarkhack
[00:55] <yofel> someone should: s/in Karmic/since Karmic/
[01:39] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, i realize you need bug testers for chromium-browser, but i can't see anything wrong with it...
[01:39] <bjsnider> works fine
[01:40] <BUGabundo> okay
[01:40] <BUGabundo> coolio
[01:41] <BUGabundo> that's what we like to hear
[01:41] <bjsnider> which ablocker works best with it?
[01:44] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: (01:42:29 AM) fta: BUGabundo, codecs broken, webgl broken, some say svg broken but wfm, ...
[01:44] <BUGabundo> AdThwart
[01:44] <BUGabundo> not as good as adblock :(
[01:44] <BUGabundo> not even close
[01:46] <bjsnider> i'm using adblock now, but it doesn't block the ads until they've already loaded
[01:47] <bjsnider> what is webgl supposed to mean
[01:47] <bjsnider> svg would be handled by webkit
[01:48] <bjsnider> codecs? you mean for html5?
[01:48] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: ask fta :)
[01:48] <BUGabundo> I'm just the messenger
[01:48] <bjsnider> what channel?
[01:48] <BUGabundo> #ubuntu-mozillateam
[01:49] <BUGabundo> as usua
[01:49] <BUGabundo> as usual
[01:49] <BUGabundo> and yes, I know the irony
[01:49] <BUGabundo> should be called
[01:49] <BUGabundo> #ubuntu-browsers
[01:49] <bjsnider> i think there's a chromium support channel
[01:51] <BUGabundo> for ubuntu ?
[01:51] <BUGabundo> or upstream?
[01:52] <nperry> upstream
[01:54] <i_is_broke> is there still a memory leak with nautilus?
[01:55] <i_is_broke> im having a really bad time with memory being used on boot up.
[02:00] <BUGabundo>  1831 bugabund  40   0  874m  52m  12m S    0  1.3   2:32.65 nautilus
[02:00] <BUGabundo> it aint that bad
[02:00] <BUGabundo>  7810 1634e4   3998        920K   1.1G 192.3M   1.1G 192.3M   5% pidgin
[02:00] <BUGabundo> 17955 198076    354       2130K 698.1M 142.8M 698.1M 142.8M   4% gwibber
[02:00] <BUGabundo>  4786 413456   1076      32515K 879.3M 106.3M 879.3M 106.3M   3% chromium-brows
[02:10] <i_is_broke> well just booting into lxde desktop i loose about 256 meg. im going to run htop and see whats doing it.
[02:14] <BUGabundo> i_is_broke: run sudo atop 2
[02:14] <BUGabundo> press 'm' for memory
[02:17] <i_is_broke> k
[02:25] <bjsnider> jpg
[02:27] <BUGabundo> png
[02:27] <BUGabundo> BMP
[02:27] <BUGabundo> TIFF?
[02:27] <DanaG> pong
[02:27] <DanaG> poink
[02:27] <BUGabundo> snailmail ?!
[02:27] <i_is_broke> i still dont see anything that should be using that much memory?
[02:27] <BUGabundo> duke nuken ?
[02:27] <maco> s/n /m //
[02:29] <i_is_broke> its weird, gkrllem says its down to like 140 meg unused, but atop says im only using like 119 megs total.
[02:29] <i_is_broke> but it acts like i dont have any unused, its very doggish.
[02:31] <DanaG> argh, volume controls on ac97 audio with pulseaudio are rather thoroughly broken.
[02:32] <DanaG> conservative governor failed, too long transition latency of HW, fallback to performance governor
[02:32] <DanaG> grr.
[02:32] <oldude67> hold on ill send this to pastebin and show you what im talking about. by the way im i_is_broke this is my test box here.
[02:32] <DanaG> SO what if it has long latency?  how do I override this?
[02:33] <oldude67> !pastebin
[02:34] <BUGabundo> DanaG: ohh so that's why
[02:34] <BUGabundo> mine gets at performanceBAHH
[02:34] <DanaG> So you have either omgfullspeedallthetime or low-speed, and no auto-throttling at all!
[02:34] <DanaG> It used to give you slow throttling, at the very least!
[02:35] <oldude67> http://paste.ubuntu.com/340282/
[02:37] <oldude67> ok i cant handle this rebooting
[02:37] <oldude67> bbiab
[02:39] <DanaG> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287463
[02:39] <DanaG> GRRRR!
[02:42] <DanaG> < Detailed C-state information is not P-states (frequencies)
[02:42] <DanaG> wtf?
[02:42] <DanaG> that's broken grammar.
[02:54] <DanaG> horrible, horrible, horrible: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/410948
[02:55] <bjsnider> wasn't there a similar bug in the karmic cycle?
[03:00] <DanaG> actually, what I'm seeing that on, is my old desktop... haven't booted it in months.
[03:01] <DanaG> Linux GLaDOS 2.6.31-5-generic #24-Ubuntu SMP Sat Aug 1 12:48:18 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
[03:01] <DanaG> I'm upgrading it to Karmic final.
[03:01] <DanaG> My issue is different: as you slide the volume control in pulseaudio, the underlying hardware "sliders" get twiddled, seemingly randomly.
[03:02] <DanaG> I can even jiggle it around near 1% in pavucontrol, and you'll see surround and front each jump around separately.
[03:02] <oldude67> this is really getting annoying, i reboot and memory is fine now.
[03:19] <DanaG> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478604
[03:19] <DanaG> this bug report, last post, describes the same symptoms as what I have with ac97.
[03:26] <rsk> how do you disable the screensaver
[03:27] <rsk> it just goes instantly black after 10minutes
[03:33] <dtchen> DanaG: I would need a codec dump and amixer output
[03:34] <DanaG> ah,  I suppose I should update the kernel to at least karmic release-version first.
[03:34] <dtchen> DanaG: also, beware that it's very difficult to fix properly for "all" Creative cards driven by emu10k1, because different revisions of the Sigmatel 9750,1 act differently
[03:35] <DanaG> Oh yeah, the actual card I'm speaking of that has those symptoms, is ALC650, actually.
[03:35] <DanaG> it's just that the mixers behavior is broken the same way.
[03:36] <dtchen> oh, the Realteks are far worse
[03:36] <dtchen> at least there's method to the Sigmatel madness
[03:38] <bjsnider> i don't think i've heard you say anything good about any sound chips at all
[03:38] <DanaG> Anyway, since it's a machine I very rarely use (perhaps like once or twice a year, just for the heck of it), it's not too much of an issue.
[03:38] <DanaG> Hmm, I haven't really had any good sound chips.  Then again, what would you call "good"?
[03:39] <DanaG> I have my screwy-dB USB card that confuses even Windows... my notebook Audigy that's cardbus, not expresscard... and I have various onboard sound chips on various computers.
[03:40] <bjsnider> well, maybe there aren't any good sound chips and the whole bloody business is just a giant con job
[03:42] <DanaG> I bet Aureal were the last good one... and Creative crushed them.
[03:43] <DanaG> I'm also curious about those Xonar cards.
[03:44] <DanaG> argh... stupid Apple keyboard (borrowed from my dad's closet)... keeps dying.
[03:44] <bjsnider> that's the cmxxxx chip right?
[03:45] <DanaG> Xonar PCI ones are 8788, or something.
[03:46] <bjsnider> i'd like to see dtchen write a blog about his recommended sound cards for use with ubuntu/pulse and vista/win7
[03:46] <bjsnider> i have a feeling it would be a short list
[03:46] <bjsnider> and of course it would have to include the cards he'd like us to stay away from
[03:46] <bjsnider> which would presumably be a much longer list
[03:47] <gnomefreak> anyone else lose TTYs
[03:49] <DanaG> damnit, the mouse died, too!
[03:50] <DanaG> And so did every other method of input.
[03:50] <DanaG> Including vnc... I could view, but no input worked!
[03:50] <bjsnider> bad case of lack of input
[03:51] <DanaG> And even ssh failed, too.
[03:53] <DanaG> Argh, it seems USB on the machine itself just perma-died.
[03:53] <bjsnider> restart udev
[03:53] <bjsnider> i guess you can't
[03:54] <DanaG> hmm, it un-died now.
[03:54] <DanaG> Had to hard power off.
[03:54] <DanaG> I pressed power button... it said "will now halt"... and then just sat there.
[03:54] <DanaG> In Xorg.,
[03:55] <dtchen> bjsnider: there are no "good" cards from my perspective; each has a list of known quirks and workarounds a mile long
[03:55] <dtchen> if you've ever done RE on a Windows driver, you'll see that, too
[03:55] <bjsnider> you meant o tell me there aren't some you'd say "do not buy this card on penalty of death"?
[03:56] <dtchen> that's a different question
[03:56] <dtchen> any card is acceptable if you're willing to accept the risk
[03:56] <bjsnider> there are certainly degrees of badness
[03:56] <dtchen> certainly
[03:56] <bjsnider> some must be less than awful
[03:56] <dtchen> sure. It largely depends on the desired feature set.
[03:57] <DanaG> Anyway, that motherboard has been through a PSU death (via exploded capacitor), so the state of the board itself is certainly screwed up in some way.
[03:57] <bjsnider> what if i desire bass/treble hardware controls?
[03:58] <dtchen> spend a few hundred bucks and get a pro card.
[03:58] <bjsnider> such as what?
[03:58] <dtchen> for the life of me, I don't know why you would want bass/treble hw controls on a card anyhow
[03:58] <gnomefreak> can we please move the non Lucid topics to #ubuntu-offtopic
[03:58] <DanaG> One pro card I tried: M-Audio something ice7412 or something.
[03:58] <DanaG> It actually made PulseAudio CRASH.
[03:58] <DanaG> Or rather, failed assertions.
[03:59] <DanaG> But, that was ages ago that I tried it.
[03:59] <dtchen> that's alsa-lib's fault
[03:59] <bjsnider> speaker system doesn't do any analog sound filtering
[03:59] <dtchen> I could pretty easily patch around it, but I'll incur the wrath of two upstreams
[04:01] <DanaG> dangit, now it won't boot... dies somewhere in radeon.
[04:01] <DanaG> Time to make radeon not load, the same way I made vga16fb not load: feed it garbage parameters.
[04:03] <DanaG> ARgh, now the stupid friendly-recovery thing doesn't even work!
[04:04] <DanaG> AND now... unable to mount root FS!
[04:05] <DanaG> And then keyboard stopped working again.
[04:06] <DanaG> Had to actually unplug PSU to get keyboard back.
[04:08] <DanaG> now where's sysrq on Apple?
[04:10] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/458352
[04:11] <DanaG> ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH
[04:12] <DanaG> HULK SMASH!
[04:12] <DanaG> And now keyboard died again. Grr....reat.
[04:26] <DanaG> hmm, has update-manager had lucid added as "a new development version" yet?
[04:26] <rsk> yes
[04:27] <DanaG> hmm, I "fixed" my usb breakage... by pulling out a PS/2 keyboard.
[04:27] <DanaG> grep: block: no such file or directory
[04:27] <DanaG> grep: devices: no such file or directory
[04:27] <DanaG> grep: found: no such file or directory
[04:27] <DanaG> Isn't that an old, now-fixed bug?
[04:27] <DanaG> =þ
[04:28] <DanaG> No wonder things were broken... that machine was left alone since August or so.
[04:28] <DanaG> And then:\
[04:28] <DanaG> no raid devices and with names: "no block devices found"
[04:28] <DanaG> AND with names?
[04:34] <DanaG> yay, now to upgrade that thing to lucid.
[04:35] <DanaG> grr, PCI SATA == le suck.
[04:35] <DanaG> Disk activity brings the whole system grinding to a halt.
[04:36] <gnomefreak> DanaG: please keep on lucid topic not you pc issues
[04:47] <DanaG> Anyway... time to upgrade to lucid, and try R300 KMS.
[04:55] <DanaG> sudo do-release-upgrade --devel-release:          checking for a new ubuntu release......... no new release found.
[04:55] <DanaG> Do I just need to go the raw sources.list route?
[04:56] <rsk> i did sudo update-manger -d
[04:56] <rsk> and it found 10.04
[04:57] <DanaG> argh, but that needs Xorg, and I feel more comfortable doing upgrades under console (in case xorg dies, or such).
[04:58] <oldude67> 9.10 is making me mad, im redoing my regular box and now its being totally stupid no mouse and dpkg is broke as well when doing their friggin updates. im having more problems with it then i am 10.04
[05:26] <oldude67> this is truely bogus as i installed the final release of karmic, its a total disaster, but if i install the beta release of karmic it works fine..ugh
[05:26] <oldude67> ill probably just go ahead and update it to lucid as well..and just skip karmic totally.
[05:26] <oldude67> im really starting to believe its the vista of ubuntu....:(
[05:27] <iflema> no....
[05:27] <DanaG> <insert "YOUR MOM" joke here>
[05:27] <oldude67> lol
[05:27] <DanaG> naaaw
[05:28] <DanaG> s/insert//
[05:29] <oldude67> any how, where do i go to look for bug reports launch pad? i want to see if anyone else is having memory issues as well?
[05:29] <dtchen> "memory issues"?
[05:30] <oldude67> yeah it seems like sometimes when i reboot the system, its using all but like 150 meg of ram on lxde or xfce.
[05:31] <rsk> memory is meant to be used
[05:31] <oldude67> and thats before i start any programs
[05:31] <rsk> as long as mem isn't filled up it's fine
[05:31] <oldude67> yeah but when your only running 512 thats alot to be used on nothing
[05:31] <DanaG> What's it filled up with?
[05:31] <DanaG> Cache, or filled by one program?
[05:32] <dtchen> that's intentional
[05:32] <oldude67> dont know everytime i try and check its like there are several programs bouncing around...
[05:32] <dtchen> linux caches aggressively, and you should know that ureadahead also is working
[05:32] <oldude67> then if i reboot i get about 350 meg free. and it runs normal.
[05:32] <DanaG> ALSA lib conf.c:2714:(snd_config_hooks_call) function X�Y       ication.name returned error: Invalid argument
[05:32] <DanaG> and earlier:
[05:32] <DanaG> ALSA lib conf.c:1179:(parse_def) show is not a compound
[05:32] <DanaG> ALSA lib conf.c:1589:(snd_config_load1) _toplevel_:17:26:Unexpected char
[05:33] <dtchen> DanaG: what version?
[05:33] <DanaG> alsa-libs version?
[05:33] <dtchen> yes
[05:33] <DanaG> alsa-base:
[05:33] <DanaG> Version: 1.0.20+dfsg-1ubuntu5
[05:33] <oldude67> like im running gnome now and pidgin and xchat and amarok and still have 255 free meg after rebooting.
[05:33] <dtchen> karmic's?
[05:33] <DanaG> I'm upgrading it to lucid anyway... will check again once upgrade completes.
[05:34] <DanaG> Yeah, I think it's karmic's.
[05:34] <dtchen> yeah, I just uploaded a bunch of fixes earlier for alsa-*
[05:34] <dtchen> (lucid, of course)
[05:34] <DanaG> That old desktop has an R350 in it.
[05:35] <DanaG> oh yeah, and I figured out why Plymouth doesn't work.
[05:36] <DanaG> http://www.mail-archive.com/plymouth@lists.freedesktop.org/msg00045.html
[05:38] <DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239
[05:38] <oldude67> and yeah i know i need to get more ram for this thing, but it takes rambus memory and that crap is not cheap....and yes its crap.
[05:38] <DanaG> heh, probably cheaper to get a whole secondhand machine than to get more rdram.
[05:39] <oldude67> ya you know it.
[05:40] <oldude67> i was looking on ebay at it, and they want 100$ for a gig.
[05:41] <oldude67> thats why i have been running it on lxde or xfce.
[05:42] <DanaG> random: http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=394214
[05:44] <oldude67> hey that looks like my old crap i have running..lol
[05:45] <oldude67> na actually this is a dual p3 866
[05:45] <DanaG> Nifty.
[05:45] <oldude67> old dell optiplex gx300
[05:47] <DanaG> First dual-CPU system I ever used, was Dual P2 350, later upgraded to Dual P3-650.  Used standard SDRAM.  Dell Precision 410, I think it was.  Even had SCSI onboard.
[05:48] <DanaG> Once I tried that, I knew I never wanted to go single-core again... in terms of responsiveness, it beat even my 2GHz Athlon XP.
[05:48] <DanaG> (granted, my AthlonXP system had tons of random stuff on it at the time.)
[05:49] <DanaG> grr, stupid apple mighty mouse... keeps turning itself off.
[05:50] <oldude67> yeah i just wished i had at least a gig of ram in it..would be a little better...oh well...for now it will work...just want to find out whats going on with the memory issue.
[05:50] <oldude67> someone said that nautilus had a memory leak, but i havent seen it.
[05:51] <DanaG> I've seen a leak in kded, I think.
[05:51] <DanaG> Had it cause OOM kills on a system with 4 gigs of RAM.
[05:51] <DanaG> But it only happened once.
[05:51] <dtchen> there is apparently a PA memleak, but no one has provided a useful valgrind (massif mode) trace
[05:52] <oldude67> well i tried booting in to gnome when it was doing that and before i could get the system to reboot i had a ton of things trying to start down on the bottom taskbar.
[05:52] <oldude67> next time it does it im going to try and see what it is thats trying to do that...
[05:52] <oldude67> actually im going to try and do an update and see if it will do it again.
[05:52] <oldude67> brb
[05:53] <DanaG> hmm, what's massif mode?
[06:03] <oldude67> now when i want it to do it it wont..go figure.
[06:03] <oldude67> rebooted the dang thing 4 times and its working now.
[06:35] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f2ef0b9ae
[06:35] <DanaG> radeon oops.
[08:07] <DanaG> grr, radeon is null-pointer-dereference'ing.
[08:08] <DanaG> www.pastebin.com/f2056135c
[08:08] <DanaG> er
[08:08] <rsk> any idea on howto disable the hidden screensaver
[08:08] <DanaG> www.pastebin.com/f2956135c
[08:09] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f2956135c
[08:09] <DanaG> ah
[08:14] <DanaG> oooh, thunder.
[08:16] <Hans_Henrik_> it should be OK to update from karmic to lucid  now right?
[08:16] <Hans_Henrik_> (not like it crash half-way or something?)
[08:17] <rsk> maybe.
[08:34] <DanaG>                                                      
[08:34] <DanaG>         Kernel driver in use: agpgart-nvidia
[08:34] <DanaG>         Kernel modules: nvidia-agp
[09:09] <joaopinto> anyone else having the sound muted at each reboot
[09:09] <joaopinto> dtchen, ping
[09:10] <joaopinto> ops, there is an update to alsautils
[09:12] <DanaG> hmm, lucid is still giving me the same corrupt-file thingy.
[09:23] <DanaG> !find libatk-bridge.so
[09:29] <DanaG> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=ba879241ee535ec75ec628f9f92e2a428348bbc4
[09:29] <DanaG> there's my alsa-info.
[11:15] <yofel> ok... just rebooted and I had a mixture of MY and the default kde desktop. 2 panels and a folderview more that messes up my desktop isn't what I expect from an update...
[11:34] <xray7224> wow i upgraded well too soon :P
[11:37] <xray7224> brb
[11:49] <xray7224> hmm i don't know whether to report a bug about my nvidia card
[11:58] <xray7224> brb
[12:34] <xray7224> does anyone know when lucid will have the nvidia drivers
[12:34] <seren__> anyone on Kubuntu lucid alpha 1 ?
[12:35] <seren__> I got a strange problem where all my applications have disappeared from kickoff or lancelot, krunner
[13:40] <gianluigisk8> hello  i do the upgrade now there are more problem with this alpha?
[13:41] <SwedeMike> my X hasn't been working for 3 days, I get signal 11 in my xorg.log, so yeah, at least some problems.
[13:42] <gianluigisk8> so work great?
[13:43] <SwedeMike> gianluigisk8: what?
[13:43] <knue> hi. i currently have the probl that plasma-desktop isn't started automatically when logging into KDE. Is this a known probl? Or have I messed up sth by myself?
[13:43] <gianluigisk8> it's work good?
[13:43] <SwedeMike> gianluigisk8: I just told you my X doesn't work, why are you asking that?
[13:44] <gianluigisk8> ah sorry...
[13:44] <gianluigisk8> i do the upgrade now
[13:45] <gianluigisk8> You have other problem?
[13:45] <i_is_broke> gianluigisk8, you might want to wait a bit. people are having and issue with x
[13:46] <gianluigisk8> sorry ^^ what you  intend eith X?
[13:46] <gianluigisk8> with*
[13:46] <SwedeMike> gianluigisk8: the graphics interface.
[13:47] <i_is_broke> gianluigisk8, depending on your graphics card, X may not work
[13:47] <SwedeMike> gianluigisk8: so with my nvidia gfx card, I get no graphics, only text mode.
[13:47] <gianluigisk8> ah,.. i have got  ati radeon 1600 xt
[13:48] <gianluigisk8> i'm not more expert with the text mode
[13:48] <i_is_broke> SwedeMike, they was talking about nvidia graphics last night and a work around. if bugabundo comes in ask him, he was one of them talking about it..something about the 190 driver.
[13:50] <i_is_broke> this computer uses the sis chip set so its not to bad, and other computer is an old nvidia tnt2 that loads with just the nv.
[13:51] <bjsnider> the nouveau driver will work with the old card
[13:51] <gianluigisk8> bho i try it now than it not work i reistall  9.10
[13:55] <i_is_broke> gianluigisk8, g/l
[14:01] <gianluigisk8> what?
[14:02] <gianluigisk8> g/l??
[14:02] <Ketsuban> "Good luck". I think.
[14:03] <gianluigisk8> ah XD
[14:43] <BUGabundo> hey guys
[14:54] <i_is_broke> hello
[14:55] <BUGabundo> ola i_is_broke
[14:55] <eagles0513875> hehe BUGabundo
[14:55]  * mac_v cries
[14:55]  * BUGabundo gives mac_v a tissue
[14:55] <eagles0513875> question for ya granted its karmic related but whats the name of the package for software compilation 4.3.4
[14:55] <i_is_broke> BUGabundo, wasnt it you last night talking about the nvidia driver?
[14:56] <i_is_broke> or was it DanaG
[14:56] <BUGabundo> no idea
[14:56] <BUGabundo> what do you want to know?
[14:56] <mac_v> anyone know of a bug in synaptic ? i cant find any apps in synaptic Lucid[coulnt find xchat/conky... nothing ]... had to come back to karmic :(
[14:57] <i_is_broke> someone was in here earlier did update and had no x and last night i remember someone talking about uploading a ppa for the 190 driver.
[14:57] <i_is_broke> and he was running a new nvidia card.
[14:57] <i_is_broke> but hey who knows i have slept since then too.
[14:57] <BUGabundo> not me
[14:57] <BUGabundo> mac_v: humm I had a prob with running newly installed apps
[14:57] <i_is_broke> might of been dtchen too..
[14:57] <BluesKaj> mac_v, how did you upgrade to lucid firstly
[14:58] <BUGabundo> until I open a new terminal
[14:58] <mac_v> i installed lucid on a separate partition
[14:58] <mac_v> clean install
[14:58] <i_is_broke> well anyways, im out for a while, going to church..be back later..have a good one.
[15:03] <eagles0513875> any idea wht the name of this package is in its ppa http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.3.4
[15:09] <mac_v> eagles0513875: ,i believe it is a pre-release for 4.3.4 , it has loads of packages
[15:09] <mac_v> well thats what i understood of KDE SC...
[15:09]  * mac_v hides... never used KDE for too long ;p
[15:10] <eagles0513875> lol
[15:10] <eagles0513875> can never find any kde users in here :( all on gnome
[15:11] <Mitch> True. :(
[15:11] <eagles0513875> u kde as well Mitch
[15:12] <Mitch> When I'm using Linux, yes.
[15:12] <eagles0513875> what desktop environment?
[15:12] <Mitch> Mostly in a VM, FWIW.
[15:13] <eagles0513875> hehe im going to be trying out lucid in a vm for now
[15:13] <Mitch> Like I answered, KDE.
[15:13] <eagles0513875> ahhh sry mis read that
[15:17] <Torch> when i try to run the installer on the kubuntu lucid alpha cd it just quits without any error message. how can i get it to run? or diagnose what's the problem?
[15:25] <mac_v> Torch: did you use manual partitioning and "format" partition and install?
[15:26] <Torch> mac_v: i booted from the CD in virtualbox.
[15:27] <Torch> mac_v: now the installer icon sits there in a folder view. when i double click it nothing happens. when i run the app behind it ("ubiquity"), it just quits.
[15:27] <mac_v> Torch: oh... so it stopped , even ahead of the install process
[15:27] <Torch> mac_v: it does not run at all. no signs of life.
[15:27] <mac_v> Torch: try the install option, install of the try Kubuntu
[15:28] <mac_v> instead of*
[15:28] <yofel> eagles0513875: pong (KDE user)
[15:28] <eagles0513875> yofel: have you tried the software-compilation package in the ppa
[15:28] <yofel> eagles0513875: and KDE SC is just the new official name for KDE
[15:29] <eagles0513875> O_o
[15:29] <eagles0513875> ahh ok
[15:30] <yofel> eagles0513875: http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand
[15:31] <yofel> it *IS* a bit confusing at first
[15:31] <Torch> mac_v: the "install kubuntu" grub entry takes me to the desktop with the folder view, install icon and i'm back on square one ;-)
[15:31] <mac_v> lol...
[15:31] <BluesKaj> I'm looking for the media options , but system settings in kubuntu lucid no longer gives it ..wonder where to look ?
[15:32] <yofel> BluesKaj: the phonon kcm doesn't build with the lucid phonon version yet, it's being worked on
[15:35] <BluesKaj> yofel, ok , i just the apt-cache policy to make sure pulseaudio wasn't included with lucid by default .. media seems fine so far tho
[15:35] <BluesKaj> did
[15:36] <yofel> BluesKaj: bug 494643
[15:37] <mrmcq2u> anyone any idea when dri2 is being enabled for radeon driver for lucid?
[15:38] <mrmcq2u> was using it on karmic through a third party ppa and its been enabled in fedora the last two releases at the least
[15:38] <mrmcq2u> would be nice to be able to work with clutter with compiz enabled :)
[15:41] <BluesKaj> yofel, what about the printer configuration ..I'm getting the "orphaned control module message " :(
[15:41] <yofel> BluesKaj: no idea, I use hplip
[15:41] <BluesKaj> ok
[15:42] <BluesKaj> maybe I should too , which file do I set that up in ?
[15:42] <yofel> BluesKaj: its a seperate app, install hplip-gui
[15:42] <yofel> JontheEchidna: do you know something about the printer module?
[15:42] <BluesKaj> right on, yofel
[15:43] <_Groo_> mrmcq2u: its enabled, just use radeon.modeset=1 when loading lucid at grub line
[15:43] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it's busted until kdebindings can build, which beta1 can't.
[15:43] <_Groo_> mrmcq2u: unfortunatelly kde 4.4 is broken with radeon and some other cards right now, but compiz works
[15:43] <JontheEchidna> fairly usual for that to happen with kdebindings around beta
[15:43] <BluesKaj> yofel, I thought it might be like the network/interfaces file for eth0
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> and since the printer module uses the python bindings...
[15:44] <yofel> ah ok
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> yeah, not nice, but not unusual and should resolve itself in beta2 or RC1 or so
[15:44] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: also koffice and kdenlive are broken, i reported to neverfelde yesterday about it
[15:44] <mrmcq2u> _Groo - using gnome
[15:45] <_Groo_> mrmcq2u: ah ok, then just enable the modesetting and be happy with compiz
[15:45] <mrmcq2u> _Groo - any idea whether kms is enabled? I know it supports it as plymouth worked nicely with fedora
[15:45] <seren__> JontheEchidna: any ideas why my applications have disappeared completely from kickoff, lancelot, krunner or file association. It looks like Kde have forgotten about them
[15:45] <seren__> I can launch them though
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> Did everything upgrade successfully? That's the only thing I can think of
[15:46] <yofel> ah that reminds me, after some update I had a  desktop that consited of my configuration and the default configuration merged together. e.g. 2 panels, 2 folderview applets...
[15:46] <_Groo_> mrmcq2u: kms is enabled but you need to pass radeon.modeset=1 to grub at boot time
[15:46] <seren__> seems so but who knows...I might have a corrupted file somewhere :)
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> yofel: yeah, kubuntu-default-settings got a plasma-desktop-appletsrc so that plasma wouldn't crash for the iso
[15:47] <yofel> JontheEchidna: ok
[15:47] <mrmcq2u> _Groo - any eta on when grub defaults to enabling them?
[15:47] <_Groo_> mrmcq2u: ask the kubuntu gods, JontheEchidna for one , or neverfeld, apachelloger... im a minion
[15:48] <yofel> JontheEchidna: will that happen on every login for now, or was that only a one-time config reload?
[15:48] <BUGabundo> JontheEchidna: kmail keeps complaining about nepomuk on GNOME :(((
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> yofel: should be one time
[15:48] <yofel> :)
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> BUGabundo: same here :(
[15:48] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: thats because lucid is missing virtuoso ¬¬
[15:48] <BUGabundo> guys we need more testers for Chromium Beta... please help testing it https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/beta
[15:48] <mrmcq2u> _Groo - oh so its kde bugs that are holding it back atm?
[15:48] <BUGabundo> _Groo_: ahh
[15:48] <BUGabundo> I tried to disable all akonadi services
[15:48] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: im using it for almost 6 months.. works like a charm
[15:48] <BUGabundo> but no go :(
[15:49] <BUGabundo> _Groo_: not trunk... BETA
[15:49] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: ah :P
[15:49] <BUGabundo> meant for more "common" users
[15:50] <mrmcq2u> hehehe - been testing from that ppa for ages now
[15:50] <_Groo_> any eta for virtuoso btw?
[15:50] <mrmcq2u> oh wait no
[15:50] <mrmcq2u> been using daily
[15:50] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: whenever it hits debian
[15:50] <BUGabundo> mrmcq2u: right me too
[15:50] <mrmcq2u> :)
[15:50] <mrmcq2u> yet still more stable than ... cough cough
[15:51] <mrmcq2u> I need not say more :D
[15:51] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: is there any ppa i could use?
[15:51] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: while waiting for debian?
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> dunno
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> I think Lex was doing something like that
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> for karmic at least
[15:51] <mrmcq2u> one thing that annoys me over firefox though is that when you have lots of tabs you cant see from a glance what they are because there are no icons or text for them :(
[15:52] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: btw is project neon still working for kde? kde daily builds?
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: Quintasan is working on resurrecting it
[15:53] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: oh ok
[15:57] <seren__> can you tell me what you have in ~/.local/share/applications cause I only have wine and 'applications' belongs to root:root
[15:57] <seren__> which does not seem right
[15:59] <yofel> seren__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/340600/
[15:59] <JontheEchidna> It might be a good idea to run: sudo chown -R seren.seren ~/
[15:59] <seren__> yep
[15:59] <seren__> thx yofel
[16:01] <yofel> hm, anyone an idea how to debug a kmail freeze?
[16:01] <BUGabundo> not freezing here yofel
[16:01] <yofel> when I press <enter> to open a mail it just sits there unresponsive with 0% cpu
[16:01] <BUGabundo> run it on gdb
[16:01] <BUGabundo> well I got a bit of unresponsive
[16:02] <BUGabundo> but it was mouse input only
[16:02] <yofel> well, I mean: unresponsive as in: screenshot mode
[16:10] <BUGabundo> not here
[16:10] <BUGabundo> not latelly at least
[16:10] <BUGabundo> early this week, yes
[16:10] <BUGabundo> it would crash
[16:11] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: are you using kde daily ?
[16:11] <BUGabundo> no
[16:11] <BUGabundo> oficial repo
[16:11] <BUGabundo> $ apt-cache policy kmail  Installed: 4:4.3.80-0ubuntu2
[16:12] <BUGabundo>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Packages
[16:12] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: ah ok
[16:12] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: is klipper working for you? its mpty for me always
[16:12] <BUGabundo> I use gnome
[16:12] <BUGabundo> so parcelite here
[16:13] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: ¬¬
[16:13] <BUGabundo> ?!
[16:13] <_Groo_> BUGabundo: just run klipper and see if it shows any text, i want to be sure before reporting the bug
[16:13] <seren__> Groo : same here, empty klipper
[16:13] <BUGabundo> tehre you go
[16:14] <_Groo_> seren__: ah ok, its a bug then, not my config thats broken
[16:14] <yofel> klipper works fine here...
[16:14] <BUGabundo> LOL
[16:14] <BUGabundo> yofel: when nothing else does?!
[16:14] <BUGabundo> :p
[16:15] <yofel> BUGabundo: well, most things work, it just seems to be quite random what does and  what doesn't work :/
[16:15] <_Groo_> yofel: it does oO? kde 4.4?
[16:15] <yofel> wtf? I can read mails in kmail if I open them as 'edit mail'
[16:16] <yofel> but when I open them kmail freezes...
[16:16] <BUGabundo> yofel: its too soon to begging KDE madness
[16:16] <BUGabundo> its usually only around A3
[16:16] <yofel> _Groo_: yes, klipper 4:4.3.80-0ubuntu2
[16:16] <BUGabundo> but I guess you gonna do like I do: install GDB packages
[16:16] <_Groo_> yofel: very strange
[16:16] <BUGabundo> and run *everything* on GDB :)
[16:16] <yofel> BUGabundo: well, IT WORKED, some update broke iit
[16:17] <_Groo_> yofel: well im using latest X ppa, maybe its a xclipboard bug
[16:17] <BUGabundo> prob is : our kubuntu ninjas can't do much about it
[16:17] <yofel> _Groo_: edgers? might be
[16:17] <yofel> BUGabundo: well yeah, I'm just confused since it worked yesterday and is broken today...
[16:18] <_Groo_> yofel: yeah but i have a cursed radeon card, i need edgers :P
[16:18] <yofel> maybe something broke on login initialization...
[16:18] <_Groo_> seren__: are you using what x, seren?
[16:18] <BUGabundo> " yofel have you rebooted it yet?" lol
[16:19] <seren__> what x version do you mean ?
[16:19] <yofel> BUGabundo: yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of right now... *-.-
[16:19] <BUGabundo> ahahahahahahaahhahaa
[16:19] <yofel> well, let's check the retrace...
[16:20] <_Groo_> seren__: the version of Xorg, is lucid stack of xorg edgers?
[16:20] <seren__> this is the lucid stack from the official repositories without the xorg ppa
[16:21] <yofel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/340606/   seems fine to me...
[16:21] <seren__> xserver-common: 2:1.7.2-2ubuntu2
[16:21] <yofel> bt with drkonqi after killing kmail
[16:21] <_Groo_> yofel: see, seren is using stack and klipper is broken for him too... very strange indeed
[16:23] <yofel> true... maybe I have some package installed that it needs to run and you don't? (I have pretty much all kde/-dev/-dbg packages installed)
[16:24] <_Groo_> yofel: gonna check
[16:24] <yofel> could be a missing dependency
[16:25] <BUGabundo> yofel: kill the remaing KIO locks :)
[16:26] <BUGabundo> $ dpkg -l | pastebinit http://paste.ubuntu.com/340613/
[16:26] <BUGabundo> incase you guys need to compare
[16:26] <BUGabundo> pretty basic stuff from fresh install
[16:27] <BUGabundo> and a few *required* superuser packages
[16:27] <BUGabundo> I should do a meta package for that eheh
[16:27] <BUGabundo> ubuntu-desktop++ LOL
[16:38] <Sarvatt> BUGabundo: sudo apt-get install nvidia-190-kernel-source :D
[16:39] <BUGabundo> hey Sarvatt
[16:39] <BUGabundo> long time no see
[16:39] <Sarvatt> heyo man!
[16:39] <BUGabundo> how are you doing ?
[16:40] <Sarvatt> good, just fiddling with nvidia in edgers since its so messed up right now :D
[16:41] <BUGabundo> err
[16:41] <BUGabundo> its working here
[16:41] <BUGabundo> :)
[16:41] <BUGabundo> don't mess it too much
[16:41] <Sarvatt> 185 is working for you?
[16:41] <BUGabundo> yep
[16:42] <BUGabundo> besides that vdpau issue :)
[16:42] <Sarvatt> you sure you arent using vesa? :D
[16:42] <BUGabundo> did you know the bronco the assembled my GPU 18 months ago, left a seal over the GPU
[16:42] <BUGabundo> making it much HOTTER then needed?
[16:42] <BUGabundo> heh
[16:42] <Sarvatt> 185 wont even load with the xorg 7.5 libs
[16:43] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: how can I test?? I'm running compiz
[16:43] <BUGabundo> right 7.5 is broken
[16:43] <BUGabundo> I had to downgrade
[16:43] <Sarvatt> but you're using xserver 1.8 on that list you pasted
[16:44] <Sarvatt> oh just common
[16:44] <Sarvatt> wow thats a screwed up setup you got there :D
[16:45] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/340619/
[16:45] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: how come?
[16:45] <BUGabundo> my setup is pretty clean
[16:45] <BUGabundo> no great mess here
[16:51] <Sarvatt> BUGabundo: sorry, wasnt looking at irc there, I put a 190 series nvidia blob in edgers that'll work with all the rest of the xorg 7.5 stuff though if you're already using it
[16:51] <BUGabundo> cool
[16:51] <BUGabundo> I'll test it latter
[16:52] <BUGabundo> gonna grab some food and watch the rest of Final Destination 4
[16:52] <BUGabundo> usually I multitask, but this film is too good to miss its bits :9
[16:54] <yofel> hey nice... dolphin can't handle sftp:// any more...
[16:54] <yofel> "Invalid Protocol"
[16:56] <yofel> uh... kio_sftp.so is missing...
[16:56] <JontheEchidna> yofel: yeah, they switched to using libssh for sftp and we're still working on the Main Inclusion Report for libssh
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> once it gets a security review we'll be able to build the ssh kio slave
[16:57] <yofel> JontheEchidna: ok :) can you put a short comment on bug 496208
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> done
[16:59] <yofel> thanks!
[17:02] <seren__> regarding ftp, there is something strange
[17:02] <seren__> I used to save a file I was editing with kate on a remote server and it was updated at once
[17:02] <seren__> now I need to close kate to get a pop up asking for update
[17:05] <yofel> seren__: indeed
[17:13] <penguin42> does the current lucid build of radeonhd have the 3d support for r700 based cards - I know it's very very new?
[17:19] <Ian_Corne> what aviyt 77O cards? :D
[17:50] <nastas> is there anyone that knows to help about internal card reader on a laptop?
[17:51] <shadeslayer> nastas: max i know is that if it doesnt work check dmesg
[17:55] <nastas> shadeslayer: i did. nothing about card. i might screw my card reader :)
[17:58] <shadeslayer> nastas: hehe... does it work in some other PC/OS ?
[17:59] <nastas> shadeslayer: yep
[17:59] <shadeslayer> nastas: wierd then... does some other device work in the same USB port?
[17:59] <LLStarks> how do i access the authorization menu?>
[17:59] <LLStarks> i need to modify my access
[18:00] <nastas> shadeslayer: it's an onboard card reader. and it almost works if i boot a livecd
[18:01] <penguin42> nastas: The hardware for those varies quite a bit - mine shows up as an mmc device
[18:01] <shadeslayer> nastas: hmm... no idea,try lsmod on the live CD and compare the modules with the install
[18:01] <penguin42> nastas@ Try dmesg|grep mmc - mine shows 'mmc0: SDHCI controller on PCI [0000:07:06.3] using DMA'
[18:02] <shadeslayer> in lspci mine is shown as : 03:09.1 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter (rev 22)
[18:03] <penguin42> yeh in mine lspci shows me both Mass storage controller: Texas Instruments 5-in-1 Multimedia Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/xD) and Host controller: Texas Instruments PCIxx12 SDA Standard Compliant SD Host Controller
[18:05] <nastas> same here penguin42 except the dmesg | grep the output is different
[18:05] <DanaG> hmm, are tifm_7xx1 and tifm_sd loaded?
[18:05] <penguin42> nastas: What do you see on your dmesg ?
[18:05] <DanaG> that'd be  for TI card reader.
[18:05] <DanaG> Mine's Ricoh... no DMA by default, bleh.
[18:06] <nastas> penguin42: mmc0: SDHCI controller on PCI [0000:02:09.4] using PIO
[18:07] <shadeslayer> nastas: does it not show up in dolphin or nautilus?
[18:07] <penguin42> nastas: well that looks OK; what happens if you put a card in?
[18:07] <nastas> when i'm insert a card nothing happens
[18:08] <penguin42> nastas: Nothing at all appears in dmesg ?
[18:08] <shadeslayer> nastas: what about dmesg | tail ?
[18:09] <nastas> shadeslayer: http://pastebin.ubuntu-gr.org/m7bd11cfb
[18:09] <nastas> thats the output
[18:09] <shadeslayer> nastas: did you remove and put the card in again?
[18:10] <nastas> yes
[18:10] <nastas> yes shadeslayer i did
[18:10] <shadeslayer> hmm.. weird
[18:10] <penguin42> nastas: What does lspci | grep 02:09.4  give ?
[18:11] <nastas> 02:09.4 SD Host controller: Texas Instruments PCI6411/6421/6611/6621/7411/7421/7611/7621 Secure Digital Controller
[18:11] <shadeslayer> its detected but not respondig ;P
[18:11] <nastas> yep
[18:12] <penguin42> nastas: lsmod | grep -i ti ?
[18:12] <penguin42> nastas: sorry, grep -i tifm
[18:13] <nastas> the output of "lsmod | grep -i tifm" is an absolute nothing
[18:13] <nastas> nothing happens
[18:13] <penguin42> weird
[18:14] <nastas> lol i know
[18:14] <penguin42> try modprobe tifm_core and tifm_7xx1
[18:14] <nastas> FATAL: Could not open '/lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/kernel/drivers/misc/tifm_core.ko': No such file or directory
[18:15] <shadeslayer> nastas: sudo modprobe
[18:15] <shadeslayer> nastas: not just modprobe ....
[18:16] <nastas> the same output
[18:16] <nastas> nastas@lazaros:~$ sudo modprobe tifm_core
[18:16] <nastas> FATAL: Could not open '/lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/kernel/drivers/misc/tifm_core.ko': No such file or directory
[18:16] <shadeslayer> nastas: what about the other one?
[18:16] <nastas> tha same
[18:16] <penguin42> nastas: What kernels do you have in /lib/module ? and uname -a shows which kernel?
[18:17] <penguin42> sorry, /lib/modules
[18:17] <nastas> Linux lazaros 2.6.31-17-generic #54-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 10 16:20:31 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
[18:18] <DanaG> 31-17 is karmic, not lucid.
[18:19] <nastas> yep
[18:19] <penguin42> nastas: I think you are running a kernel that you haven't got the packages installed for somehow, and hence don't have the modules
[18:19] <shadeslayer> nastas: then why are you here?
[18:20] <shadeslayer> nastas: do you have karmic or lucid?
[18:20] <nastas> karmic and just asking a solution for my problem. is this so wrong?
[18:21] <penguin42> nastas: It's the wrong channel to ask in technically
[18:22] <shadeslayer> nastas: please ask in #ubuntu or #kubuntu
[18:22] <nastas> ok. thnx for you help anyway
[18:22] <penguin42> nastas: People will get confused into wondering if it's something that's just been broken in lucid
[18:22] <nastas> ok
[18:22] <nastas> you're right
[18:22] <penguin42> nastas: Anyway, check that you do actually have the kernel in /lib/modules/blah
[18:22] <nastas> ok
[18:29] <dtchen> joaopinto: pong
[18:31] <dtchen> joaopinto: right, my last alsa-utils upload was precisely for that bug
[18:31] <dtchen> I just haven't gone back and triaged all the bug reports yet; there are probably a couple dozen
[18:47] <sal_> advice on "partial ugdate"?
[18:48] <sal_> first time testing a devel release
[18:48] <sal_> have a stable alpha running
[18:48] <seren__> sal : just wait for a few hours/ days
[18:48] <yofel> sal_: advice: never do partial upgrades
[18:49] <yofel> sal_: rather open a terminal and update with 'sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade'
[18:49] <yofel> or yes, wait a few days, but then something else might be broken ^^
[18:50] <sal_> i tried two days ago, and several times since.  still offering only partial
[18:50] <yofel> sal_: then use aptitude to find out why
[18:50] <sal_> yofel, this is safe/ best way - the comman lines?
[18:51] <yofel> sal_: well, the cli tools are what I'm most familiar with, there might be a gui, but don't know much there
[18:51] <sal_> this is new to me.  i would like to learn the terminal bits for this
[18:52] <yofel> hm...
[18:52] <yofel> !terminal
[18:52] <sal_> 'sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade' -- ?is best way for normal updates?
[18:52] <yofel> sal_: the guide is pretty nice for beginners
[18:53] <yofel> sal_: it's the best way for updates that won't break anything
[18:53] <sal_> i have been reading some of the guide
[18:54] <yofel> sal_: what I like is the interactive mode, just run 'sudo aptitude' and see ;)
[18:54] <sal_> great, thanks.  just what i am looking for
[18:54] <yofel> there you'll see if packages are held back and can easy switch different solutions
[18:55] <yofel> takes a bit getting used to though
[18:55] <sal_> wow
[18:55] <sal_> how do i read all this?
[18:55] <sal_> or use it?
[18:56] <yofel> sal_: aptitude uses vi keybindings
[18:56] <yofel> use hjkl for scrolling
[18:56] <yofel> + - for adding/removing packages
[18:57] <yofel>  / to search for packages
[18:57] <sal_> is there a man page?
[18:58] <yofel> certainly, man aptitude
[18:58] <sal_> got it
[18:58] <sal_> what is the difference between aptitude and apt?
[18:59] <sal_> or apt-get, for example?
[19:00] <yofel> well, aptitude has the better interface and a (sometimes) more intelligent dependency-resolver
[19:00] <yofel> but mostly it's the same as apt-get
[19:01] <yofel> actually...
[19:01] <yofel> !aptitude
[19:02] <sal_> thanks.
[19:02] <sal_> and the two sudo lines you gave above .. run those together always?
[19:03] <yofel> well, not necessary, 'sudo aptitude update' (or 'u' in the interface) will refresh the package cache (same as apt-get update)
[19:03] <yofel> you only need to do that once in a while
[19:04] <yofel> we usually post those together here to make sure you have a up-to-date package cache
[19:04] <yofel> sudo aptitude safe-upgrade will then actually do the updating
[19:04] <BUGabundo> why can't the darn bright settings get there act toghether !?!? grrrr
[19:05] <yofel> && makes sure the 2. command is only run if the 1. command doesn't fail
[19:05] <sal_> so if i am wanting to do just basic updates through the lucid devel .. ? once a week, or ?
[19:05] <BUGabundo> sal_: I do twice a day
[19:05] <BUGabundo> $ aptitudeupdate :D
[19:05] <yofel> :D
[19:05] <BUGabundo> got an alias and everythign
[19:06] <BUGabundo> alias aptitudeupgrade='sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade'
[19:06] <BUGabundo> but don't do, the FULL.... please DON'T (try this at home)
[19:06] <sal_> BUGabundo, not sure what all that means .. -v a bit please?
[19:06] <seren__> I didn't knew aptitude interactive mode
[19:06] <seren__> this is quite nice
[19:07] <BUGabundo> seren__: best way to upgrade
[19:07] <BUGabundo> sal_: just keep running update-manager
[19:07] <seren__> since I am using apt-get usually
[19:07] <BUGabundo> but don't do partial upgrades ok ?
[19:07] <sal_> i have been, but it has only been offering the 'partial'
[19:07] <BUGabundo> seren__: I was like that up to one year ago
[19:07] <yofel> BUGabundo: the partial part was where this discussion began ;)
[19:07] <seren__> is this a bad idea to switch back and forth between aptitude and apt-get N
[19:07] <sal_> so i am looking for another way ..
[19:07] <BUGabundo> then I found aptitude manage depency much better
[19:07] <BUGabundo> so thanks to KDE mess :)
[19:08] <BUGabundo> seren__: no
[19:08] <BUGabundo> sal_: try $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade
[19:08] <sal_> what i am really here for today .. to find an good/best/safe way to keep lucid updated.  am new to testing/ devel
[19:08] <BUGabundo> just to see if anything is stuck
[19:09] <sal_> but not the Full part, right?
[19:09] <BUGabundo> yep, don't
[19:09] <BUGabundo> just CHECK
[19:10] <BUGabundo> I only do that if im *really* sure it's a depency jump
[19:10] <BUGabundo> and not broken depencies
[19:11] <sal_> so .. $ sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[19:11] <sal_> twice daily with vinegar?
[19:11] <sal_> ;-)
[19:11] <sal_> should keep me good ..?
[19:11] <BUGabundo> no
[19:12] <BUGabundo> It should keep in a mess
[19:12] <sal_> good/bad/ugly mess?
[19:12] <BUGabundo> good mess
[19:13] <sal_> thanks, just what i'm after .. i think
[19:14] <sal_> when would i want to do the Full part? at the alpha2?
[19:14] <sal_> or .. ?
[19:14] <yofel> sal_: sometimes package depdencies are changed during development, like recently when upstart was removed from ubuntu-desktop to make place for plymouth
[19:15] <yofel> sal_: aptitude safe-upgrade in this case will NOT remove usplash
[19:15] <yofel> argh, s/upstart/usplash
[19:15] <sal_> gotcha
[19:16] <sal_> but later it may be removed at a safer time/place?
[19:16] <yofel> sal_: full-upgrade will remove usplash, but you first have to see if what aptitude wants to do is intended by the developers or not
[19:16] <yofel> sal_: if not: you'll probably break your system
[19:17] <sal_> ok.  being new to using a devel release, i'm just trying to crawl along and KISS
[19:17] <yofel> sal_: no problem, hang out here and ask questions, you'll learn it with the time
[19:18] <sal_> will do.  thanks for the patient help
[19:19] <yofel> sal_: you might want to check this ML if you want to keep up with the changes in lucid: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Lucid-changes
[19:19] <yofel> those are the package changelogs
[19:20] <sal_> i'll read it and see if i can decipher any of it ;-)
[19:20] <sal_> ML =?
[19:20] <sal_> !ML
[19:20] <yofel> you can get a changelog for a specific package with 'aptitude changelog <package>' too
[19:35] <joaopinto> dtchen, it fixed it, thanks
[20:27] <DanaG> weird... viafb has horrible visual glitches.
[20:28] <IdleOne> DanaG: how did the upgrade go?
[20:30] <DanaG> oh, that radeon?  it caused null-pointer dereferences until I passed radeon.agpmode=-1.
[20:31] <DanaG> oh, and I've swapped the drive over to another system, for a little while, and now need help with this:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257924
[20:33] <IdleOne> DanaG: I was tlaking about the upgrade to Lucid you mentioned last night
[20:33] <IdleOne> talking*
[20:33] <IdleOne> something about do-release-upgrade not working
[20:37] <DanaG> Yeah, do-release-upgrade didn't work.
[20:37] <DanaG> Had to use the GTK update-manager.
[20:38] <IdleOne> I am a little nervous about upgrading
[20:39] <IdleOne> then again I could always just reinstall
[20:39] <dtchen> DanaG: that's a bit odd; the backend is identical
[20:39] <DanaG> Yeah, weird.
[20:40] <IdleOne> here goes nothing
[20:40] <DanaG> I could also use this thing: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/code/
[20:41] <IdleOne> where can I look at a default karmic sources.list?
[20:42] <IdleOne> mine seems to have some weird repos init
[20:42] <IdleOne> in it*
[20:44] <BUGabundo> IdleOne: comment them prior to upgrade
[20:44] <IdleOne> BUGabundo: good idea
[20:45] <BUGabundo> IdleOne: I _think_ UM does it for you non the less
[20:46] <IdleOne> well it's the backport repos that seem to be causing the issue
[20:46] <IdleOne> and proposed
[20:50] <BUGabundo> there are none on +1
[20:51] <IdleOne> http://paste.ubuntu.com/340768/
[20:54] <IdleOne> BUGabundo: ^^ any ideas?
[20:54] <BUGabundo> comment them ?
[20:54] <BUGabundo> you dotn need them for nor
[20:54] <BUGabundo> *now
[20:54] <IdleOne> I don't see them in sources.list
[20:54] <yofel> wasn't that the canonical partner repos?
[20:56] <yofel> I have 'deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu lucid partner' in my sources list
[20:57] <BUGabundo> damn it
[20:57] <yofel> IdleOne: what does grep 'partner' /etc/apt/sources.list give you?
[20:57] <BUGabundo> there must be a way to make pidgin fonts bigger
[20:58] <BUGabundo> I'm going BLIND IN HERE
[20:58] <BUGabundo> HEEELLLPPPPP
[20:58] <yofel> BUGabundo: mom
[20:58] <BUGabundo> this stupid thing got extremlly small fonts Friday
[20:59] <BUGabundo> and I can't make them bigger
[20:59] <BUGabundo> I can't read this
[20:59] <BUGabundo> spending two day with this F*** is driving me crazyt
[21:00] <yofel> hm, pidgin seems to have changed a lot since I last used it...
[21:00] <BUGabundo> it did, in this last update
[21:00] <BUGabundo> mostly settigns menu
[21:01] <DanaG> grr, something randomly decided to bring my system grinding to a high-load halt.
[21:05] <BUGabundo> come one
[21:05] <BUGabundo> some one here must be albe to help me
[21:05] <BUGabundo> or you guys and galls like me so much you want me out of here?!?!
[21:05] <BUGabundo> ok, ill try #pidgin
[21:05]  * BUGabundo puts armor suit on
[21:05] <IdleOne> BUGabundo: use a real IRC client :P
[21:06] <BUGabundo> wish me luck
[21:06] <IdleOne> luck
[21:07] <BUGabundo> DAMN IT
[21:07] <BUGabundo> I'm downgrading to pidgin PPA
[21:08] <BUGabundo> what the heck...
[21:08] <BUGabundo> synaptic doesn't let me downgrade?
[21:08] <BUGabundo> and shows NO error ?
[21:10] <BUGabundo> heck... I'll use compiz zoom instead
[21:10] <BUGabundo> ZERO replies in #pidgin... as usual
[21:11] <BUGabundo> at least no one is throwing me chairs the moment I say "ubuntu"
[21:11] <yofel> BUGabundo: how about... xchat, quassel, chatzilla, ...
[21:11] <BUGabundo> yofel: never liked xchat or chatzilla
[21:11] <BUGabundo> never tried quassel
[21:12] <BUGabundo> but I love to have all IM/µblogging/IRC in one window
[21:13] <IdleOne> BUGabundo: and yofel thanks for the hints btw
[21:14] <BUGabundo> np
[21:14] <yofel> you're welcome
[21:25]  * Tscheesy 's updating his Kubuntu Netbook Edition :)
[21:25]  * popey hands BUGabundo a copy of irssi,bitlbee and twirssi :)
[21:26] <BUGabundo> thanks popey
[21:26] <BUGabundo> does any of those groups all my IM protocols ?
[21:26] <popey> bitlbee does
[21:27] <popey> i use one window for all my IM/irc/microblogging... screen running on a remote server with irssi, twirssi and bitlbee running in it
[21:27] <BUGabundo> let me try it then
[21:28] <BUGabundo> "An IRC to other chat networks gateway"
[21:28] <BUGabundo> err not what I need
[21:28] <popey> why?
[21:29] <BUGabundo> its a gateway
[21:29] <BUGabundo> I need a client
[21:29] <popey> the client is irssi, the irc client
[21:30] <popey> so in the irc client i have irc, MSn, yahoo, google talk, icq etc, and twitter and identica
[21:30] <BUGabundo> ahh
[21:30] <sal_> yofel, i managed all the upgrades from earlier .. the hang on the 'partial update' seems coming from gdm
[21:31] <yofel> sal_: do you have kubuntu-desktop installed?
[21:31] <sal_> yofel, i have 2.29.1-0ubuntu3 current, but not sure how to read all the package changes .. anything to do or not do with this?
[21:31] <sal_> no kubuntu
[21:32] <yofel> sal_: yes, ubuntu5 conflicts with usplash since plymouth will be used in the future
[21:33] <sal_> yofel, so just leave it as is for now ?
[21:34] <yofel> sal_: either that or remove usplash
[21:35] <sal_> yofel, usplash is a package(?) -- at some future point of update, this would be resolved naturally, yes?
[21:35] <sal_> remove usplash, then update gdm?
[21:37] <yofel> it should be, but I can't really give you tested advice, I have to keep gdm back since I would have to remove kubuntu-desktop too
[21:38] <BUGabundo> YAAYAYAYAY
[21:38] <BUGabundo> pidgin fixed
[21:38] <BUGabundo> darn place to put the font settigns
[21:38] <BUGabundo> on a freaking plugin
[21:38] <sal_> yofel, ok.  thanks.  i'll just let it be for now ..
[21:39] <sebsebseb> hi
[21:43] <sal_> !plymouth
[21:46] <BUGabundo> !test
[21:46]  * cwillu pokes his head in
[21:46] <BUGabundo> ahhhh size 13 is guud
[21:46]  * BUGabundo hugs cwillu
[21:46] <BUGabundo> dude you owe me a beer
[21:46] <BUGabundo> ;)
[21:46] <cwillu> -28.0C, feels like -39.5C
[21:47] <BUGabundo> ahaahahah
[21:47] <cwillu> do you mind if its frozen?
[21:47] <BUGabundo> +10ºC feels like 4º
[21:47]  * cwillu runs outside quickly to start his car
[21:48] <BUGabundo> cwillu why isn't your car inside, next to the fireplace?
[21:54] <sal_> BUGabundo, ubottu sent pm saying its a know nothing re plymouth
[21:54] <BUGabundo> lol
[21:54] <BUGabundo> so why are you asking me?
[21:54] <BUGabundo> do I look like a bot?
[21:54] <BUGabundo> I've out grown that phase
[21:54] <BUGabundo> :p
[21:54] <sal_> from my knowledge .. yup
[21:54] <sal_> sorry
[21:55] <cwillu> BUGabundo, don't have a garage, nor a fireplace
[21:56] <BUGabundo> cwillu kitchen oven ? :p
[21:56] <BUGabundo> !search plymouth
[21:56] <yofel> sal_: plymouth is still very new in ubuntu, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup for now
[21:56] <BUGabundo> ohh yeah the startup thing we dumped
[21:56] <DanaG> Plymouth just plain refuses to even try working on my system.
[21:56] <BUGabundo> yofel: we kicked it out
[21:56] <DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239
[21:56] <BUGabundo> tooo slow
[21:57] <yofel> BUGabundo: no, lucid will have it after all
[21:57] <yofel> BUGabundo: didn't notice gdm kicking out usplash?
[21:57] <BUGabundo> no
[21:58] <BUGabundo> man I really should read the ML
[21:58] <BUGabundo> 2k unread emails :(
[21:58] <sal_> i looked it up
[21:58] <robin0800> BUGabundo: what it is to be popular
[21:59] <yofel> BUGabundo: see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience
[22:00] <BUGabundo> robin0800: no idea.. I'm not :)
[22:00] <BUGabundo> not anymore at least
[22:00] <BUGabundo> try me 2 or 3 cycles ago
[22:00] <BUGabundo> and I would know more then the bot it self
[22:01] <BUGabundo> now I barelly keep up :(
[22:25] <Tscheesy> hm - no Desktop-shell whithin upgraded KNE
[22:29] <Tscheesy> ah plasma-netbook was not running
[22:30] <nhasian> hello everyone
[22:32] <Tscheesy> huch - what's Byobo  Window Manager needed for ?
[22:44] <yofel> Tscheesy: if you mean byobu: profiles for screen
[22:47] <sebsebseb> sal_: oh you are in here as well
[22:48] <sebsebseb> sal_: hi?
[22:50] <sebsebseb> sal_: So what's this  about GDM updates in Lucid?
[22:52] <Crashbit> !w IMHO
[22:52] <sebsebseb> !pm > sal_
[22:52] <Crashbit> uish, sorry
[22:53] <sal_> got it.  sorry
[22:54] <yofel> sebsebseb: the new gdm breaks usplash, so you need to remove usplash to update
[22:54] <sebsebseb> sal_: your new to Ubuntu?
[22:54] <sebsebseb> yofel: oh, but usplash is going to get replaced by Plymouth isn't it?
[22:55] <sebsebseb> and xsplash will get replaced by that as well?
[22:55] <sebsebseb> uh at all these names
[22:55] <yofel> sebsebseb: yes, but the situation right now ends with gdm being held back by apt
[22:55] <sebsebseb> what do you mean held back by apt?
[22:55] <bjsnider> they want the boot time held to less than 10 seconds anyway
[22:55] <sal_> this was giving me the 'partial upgrade' thing in update mngr
[22:56] <bjsnider> they want it like osx where there is hardly any boot time
[22:56] <sebsebseb> sal_: some things are best for a channel see,  also I have only ran my alpha 1 vm briefuly, so I didn't actsauly know what you were talking about
[22:56] <BUGabundo> yofel: so is it safe to force the upgrade of GDM?
[22:56] <BUGabundo> or are depencies still tripping ?
[22:57] <yofel> BUGabundo: afaik yes, DanaG might now more
[22:57] <sal_> yofel helped get me going around it, my issue is solved for now, but curious what others are doind ..
[22:57] <yofel> s/now/know
[22:57] <sal_> sebsebseb, thanks for the irc user tip(s)
[22:58] <sebsebseb> yofel: sal_  thought this channel was off topic for Lucid, or something like that
[22:58] <yofel> sebsebseb: err... this is #ubuntu+1
[22:58] <sebsebseb> yofel: exactly
[22:58] <sebsebseb> I told them in pm that it's on topic here
[22:59] <yofel> well yeah, even the topic says so
[22:59] <sal_> lucid is apparently offtopic in the main support channel, my bad
[22:59] <sebsebseb> sal_: in the main support channel it is yes, but not in here
[22:59] <sal_> got it
[22:59] <sebsebseb> well I guess it's ok to suggest people stay on 8.04 for now and wait untill 10.04, depending on how that is done etc
[23:00] <sebsebseb> in the main one
[23:00] <BUGabundo> sal_: FYI this # is meant for support and discussion for +1 and +2
[23:01] <BUGabundo> then again, most of us in here are just users or little time devs
[23:01] <sebsebseb> BUGabundo: +2 as well, that would be  10.10
[23:01] <sebsebseb> when is that released by the way?
[23:01] <BUGabundo> and many many times we can really make our voices be heard in the true decisions
[23:01] <BUGabundo> sebsebseb: duh october 2010
[23:01] <sebsebseb> yeah I know
[23:01] <sebsebseb> ,but
[23:01] <sebsebseb> I am wondering about the day the date
[23:01] <BUGabundo> ask the GOD
[23:02] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu seems to like releasing on a Thursday
[23:02] <sebsebseb> final releases, but also  alpha's etc
[23:02] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, we can make our voices heard in which decisions?
[23:02] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: "can't" :(
[23:03] <bjsnider> i see
[23:03] <BUGabundo> remember all those bugs we fough and lost ?
[23:03] <bjsnider> which decisions did you have in mind?
[23:03] <DanaG> what about me?
[23:03] <BUGabundo> UM, OSD, boots, etc
[23:03] <BUGabundo> DanaG: GDM upgrde
[23:03] <BUGabundo> safe or foo ?
[23:03] <DanaG> hmm, I don't remember what was up with that.
[23:04] <yofel> DanaG: usplash removal
[23:04] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, i'll tell you a little story
[23:04] <sebsebseb> Thursday April 29th is 10.04, so does that mean that 10.10 comes out on Thursday 28th October?
[23:04] <BUGabundo> sebsebseb: not sure
[23:04] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: you work for the big guy, and are a agent in diskise?
[23:04] <DanaG> ah yeah, plymouth looks nice... when it doesn't decide not to run.
[23:05] <DanaG> And yes, it does actively DECIDE not to run, on my system.
[23:05] <DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239
[23:05] <bjsnider> somebody asked me to package kaffeine0.8.8 because kaffeine pre1 in karmic was useless. i went into kubuntu-devel channel and asked who made the decision to package pre1 over 0.8.8, which was more stable, and they said it was made because no users objected
[23:05] <sebsebseb> DanaG: Mandriva 2010's Plymouth is rather nice indeed, I wonder what 10.04's will be like.   my boot up was a bit uh last time I was in my vm about two days or whatever for alpha 1
[23:05] <DanaG> hmm, try setting default theme to spinfinity.
[23:06] <sebsebseb> at least that xplash rubbish will be replaced :)   well xplash is ok
[23:06] <DanaG> If we had a spinner instead of an infinity-sign, it'd be nice.
[23:06] <sebsebseb> just  I wonder about  if it's possible to get the boot up text mode as well with xplash hmm
[23:06] <sal_> BUGabundo, am aware of that +1.  i think just some confusion .. switching channels
[23:07]  * sebsebseb really likes having a text boot, but wants a picture of some sort there as well
[23:07] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: so you mean no one complaint
[23:08] <BUGabundo> either no one is using the proper channels
[23:08] <BUGabundo> or no one is listenign to users
[23:08] <sebsebseb> Mandriva's is good,  press esc to get the text mode,  and if don't do that,  have the graphical boot
[23:08] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, right, no users complained that pre-1 was missing the dvb-s2 features, or supposedly it would have been dropped from the karmic cycle
[23:08] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: up to one year ago *that* was MY task
[23:08] <BUGabundo> to be in between devs and users
[23:09] <BUGabundo> to keep up on both sides, and mediate intel
[23:09] <bjsnider> well, i wonder why they're coming to me about this whent hey should be sending in bugs complaining
[23:09] <BUGabundo> but no more time for it unfortunatelly
[23:09] <bjsnider> i mean i don't use kaffeine!
[23:09] <BUGabundo> to keep up woth several MLs, wiki pages, blogs, IRC #s
[23:11] <bjsnider> this is what one of the users told me in response to being asked why he didn't speak up about the kaffeine issue:
[23:11] <BUGabundo> so now I'm counting on YOU guys to take my roll in the community
[23:11] <bjsnider> "Unfortunately, I missed the testing of kaffeine; probably also because I am already trying to have other points of Ubuntu improved."
[23:11] <BUGabundo> eheh
[23:11] <BUGabundo> devel spin cycle
[23:12] <BUGabundo> one of the reasons I run +1 since so early is to have everything I use running on stable
[23:12] <BUGabundo> not that ill be running stable for long :)
[23:12] <bjsnider> many users don't seem to understand how to get directly in touch with the ubuntu devs to stop them from going ahead with bad decisions
[23:12] <BUGabundo> but it still manages to work well up to FF/A6 and then break before beta and not get fixed :(
[23:13] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: well from my POV even if they knew how, and actually did
[23:13] <yofel> bjsnider: someone even created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperCommunication for that
[23:13] <BUGabundo> many of those times they wouldn't be listened to
[23:13] <BUGabundo> :(
[23:13] <bjsnider> have you said that in the motu channel?
[23:13] <BUGabundo> I remember when I shared my ideas on -devel/devel-discuss MLs
[23:13] <BUGabundo> most of the times I was just pushed back :(
[23:14] <bjsnider> brushed off?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> nvm
[23:14] <BUGabundo> I'm tired of it
[23:15] <BUGabundo> I became that kind of super user that goes get a workaround
[23:15] <BUGabundo> instead of actually working to fix a prob
[23:15] <BUGabundo> :\\
[23:15] <BUGabundo> shame on me
[23:15] <BUGabundo> be it gets really tired after a point
[23:16] <BUGabundo> running, testing, supporting, user formation, public information, for over 3 years tears a person apart
[23:18] <bjsnider> yes but that's your place in this
[23:18] <bjsnider> you've chosent hat over developing or just sitting back and using
[23:19] <BUGabundo> its my personality fault
[23:19] <BUGabundo> I can't leave a person without help, if I can help
[23:20] <bjsnider> the kubuntu-devel guys also told me that they did not have enough time to fully test the software, which raises questions about the rest of the kubuntu distro
[23:20] <BUGabundo> so I try to know all I can on a subject I'm intereted so I can help
[23:20] <BUGabundo> plus I can so easilly find bugs in anything I touch , so I tend to help test and file bugs and suggestions on any new project I pick up, until I get bothered or it works as I need it too
[23:21] <yofel> bjsnider: well, they invented the timelord project to help with the poor q/a issue
[23:21] <DanaG> Too bad Ubuntu doesn't use fbcondecor.
[23:21] <bjsnider> i don't know what that is
[23:22] <yofel> google?
[23:22] <BUGabundo> me neiehte
[23:22] <DanaG> it used to be called fbsplash.
[23:22] <DanaG> Fancy console backgrounds, that's what.
[23:22] <BUGabundo> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord
[23:23] <yofel> lemme see... we have 122 people in #ubuntu-bugs and... 15 in #kubuntu-bugs
[23:24] <BUGabundo> ehe
[23:24] <yofel> yep, not enough to triage  all kubuntu  bugs at LP
[23:24] <bjsnider> what does that tell you
[23:24] <BUGabundo> yofel: and k-devel vs u-devel
[23:24] <yofel> that too
[23:25] <bjsnider> at one point it looked to me that there as only one guy, riddel of course, packaging anything for kde, but that was a couple years ago
[23:26] <yofel> yeah, there are a lot more now, or we probably wouldn't have seen kde4.4 for alpha1
[23:26] <bjsnider> have they held on to riddell?
[23:26] <bjsnider> or is he gone?
[23:29] <yofel> he's still there afaik
[23:33] <bjsnider> well, continuity over the years is good
[23:56]  * cwillu_at_work huggles BUGabundo
[23:56] <cwillu_at_work> doesn't help that there isn't a good list of features that users care about (and that such a thing is probably impossible to create in the first place)
[23:58]  * cwillu_at_work thinks
[23:58] <BUGabundo> cwillu at work?
[23:58] <BUGabundo> car didn't have much probs?
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> is at work
[23:58] <BUGabundo> can't imagine what is driving with those temparatures
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> nah, never had issues starting it as long as the battery is good, but it still doesn't like driving cold
[23:58] <BUGabundo> colder I've ever driven was like -2ºC
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> not very slippery when it gets uber cold
[23:59] <cwillu_at_work> yep, that's about as bad as it gets for slippery, ice gets less slippery as it gets colder
[23:59] <cwillu_at_work> ends up a little worse than driving in fresh rain