/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/13/#ubuntu+1.txt

=== yoasif_ is now known as yoasif
=== jono is now known as jono2
_Groo_	hi/2 all	00:05
_Groo_	i'm using radeon dri2/kms (im using for a long time now), since i upgraded to lucid with kde 4.4 beta 1 i cant activate compositing anymore. it works with compiz but not kwin.	00:05
yofel	_Groo_: the kde4.4beta release page says that compositing doesn't work for some hardware, maybe you're affected by that	00:12
_Groo_	yofel: it always worked since 4.0, and compiz is working	00:13
_Groo_	yofel: also, is the printer settings broken too?	00:13
yofel	_Groo_: see Known Problems http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.4-beta1.php	00:14
yofel	dunno about the printer settings, I use hplip	00:14
JontheEchidna	printer settings are probably because the python bindings are still at KDE 4.3.3	00:15
JontheEchidna	but kdebindings fails to build in beta, which is typical each kde release	00:15
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: ahh true.. kdebindings are for 4.3.3	00:15
_Groo_	4.3.4	00:15
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: lol yeah, true	00:16
DanaG	grr, kde 4.4 deals badly with multiple monitors.	00:17
DanaG	The second monitor's background is in front of everything else.	00:17
_Groo_	yofel: some hardware is vage at least	00:17
yofel	_Groo_: well, I don't know more than that, sry	00:17
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: are you using 4.4? can you tell me if the clipboard (klipper) is broken?	00:17
JontheEchidna	works fine here	00:17
yofel	_Groo_: works for me	00:17
yofel	(klipper)	00:18
DanaG	And plasma segfaults all the time.... tons and tons of times.	00:18
_Groo_	yofel: very strange :P	00:19
yofel	not here, I have a (fixed upstream) kwin crash sometimes, but otherwise kde works fine	00:19
yofel	ah, about klipper: was 'use selection' turned on by default in kde4.3?	00:19
yofel	I thought that it was broken at first too	00:19
_Groo_	yofel: where do i set that?	00:20
yofel	_Groo_: I set 'ignore selection' in the settings to get it to work as I expected	00:21
_Groo_	yofel: you are joking?	00:21
_Groo_	yofel: its the negative???	00:21
yofel	_Groo_: no, what I mean is: I DO NOT want it to use the selection	00:21
yofel	I often replace selected text, which doesn't work with selection copy enabled	00:22
_Groo_	yofel: doesnt work, always empty and i do have selection	00:22
DanaG	SEcondary monitor (actually, the thing I WANT to have be primary!) is showing only a static image.	00:23
_Groo_	yofel: and it always crashes on exit	00:23
yofel	_Groo_: oh, might have seen that crash too, doesn't happen always though	00:23
_Groo_	yofel: im installing kdelibs5 dbs and qt4.5 dbg so i can report the bugs...	00:24
DanaG	grr, using two different-dpi displays resets the thing back to 96 dpi!	00:27
DanaG	GRR.	00:27
xray7224	im going for the upgrade	00:28
xray7224	:P	00:28
xray7224	its updating to lucid now :D	00:28
yofel	xray7224: good luck	00:28
xray7224	thanks :P	00:28
yofel	:P	00:28
DanaG	grr, plasma died again.	00:29
xray7224	hehe	00:29
yofel	DanaG: still using compiz?	00:29
DanaG	Yup.	00:29
DanaG	kwin compositing isn't working.	00:29
DanaG	In fact, it isn't even TRYING to work.	00:29
BUGabundo	xray7224: via what method ?	00:30
DanaG	It thinks it is working, though... it shows it "enabled" in kde!	00:30
_Groo_	DanaG: same problem here	00:30
DanaG	er, in systemsettings.	00:30
xray7224	BUGabundo, just update-manager -d	00:30
BUGabundo	ok	00:30
BUGabundo	just making sure :)	00:30
_Groo_	DanaG: mine just enables if i have compiz running, but never really works.. if you restart kde without any compositing it fails miserably	00:30
DanaG	grr, kde doesn't acknowledge xrandr dpi changes.	00:32
=== jono2 is now known as jono
mysticdarkhack	Hey	00:53
mysticdarkhack	anyone here know where I can edit for the kernel startup	00:53
mysticdarkhack	there no menu.lst	00:54
yofel	!grub2 \| mysticdarkhack	00:54
ubottu	mysticdarkhack: GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information and troubleshooting on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2	00:54
yofel	someone should: s/in Karmic/since Karmic/	00:55
=== BUGabundo1 is now known as BUGabundo
bjsnider	BUGabundo, i realize you need bug testers for chromium-browser, but i can't see anything wrong with it...	01:39
bjsnider	works fine	01:39
BUGabundo	okay	01:40
BUGabundo	coolio	01:40
BUGabundo	that's what we like to hear	01:41
bjsnider	which ablocker works best with it?	01:41
BUGabundo	bjsnider: (01:42:29 AM) fta: BUGabundo, codecs broken, webgl broken, some say svg broken but wfm, ...	01:44
BUGabundo	AdThwart	01:44
BUGabundo	not as good as adblock :(	01:44
BUGabundo	not even close	01:44
bjsnider	i'm using adblock now, but it doesn't block the ads until they've already loaded	01:46
bjsnider	what is webgl supposed to mean	01:47
bjsnider	svg would be handled by webkit	01:47
bjsnider	codecs? you mean for html5?	01:48
BUGabundo	bjsnider: ask fta :)	01:48
BUGabundo	I'm just the messenger	01:48
bjsnider	what channel?	01:48
BUGabundo	#ubuntu-mozillateam	01:48
BUGabundo	as usua	01:49
BUGabundo	as usual	01:49
BUGabundo	and yes, I know the irony	01:49
BUGabundo	should be called	01:49
BUGabundo	#ubuntu-browsers	01:49
bjsnider	i think there's a chromium support channel	01:49
BUGabundo	for ubuntu ?	01:51
BUGabundo	or upstream?	01:51
nperry	upstream	01:52
i_is_broke	is there still a memory leak with nautilus?	01:54
i_is_broke	im having a really bad time with memory being used on boot up.	01:55
BUGabundo	1831 bugabund 40 0 874m 52m 12m S 0 1.3 2:32.65 nautilus	02:00
BUGabundo	it aint that bad	02:00
BUGabundo	7810 1634e4 3998 920K 1.1G 192.3M 1.1G 192.3M 5% pidgin	02:00
BUGabundo	17955 198076 354 2130K 698.1M 142.8M 698.1M 142.8M 4% gwibber	02:00
BUGabundo	4786 413456 1076 32515K 879.3M 106.3M 879.3M 106.3M 3% chromium-brows	02:00
i_is_broke	well just booting into lxde desktop i loose about 256 meg. im going to run htop and see whats doing it.	02:10
BUGabundo	i_is_broke: run sudo atop 2	02:14
BUGabundo	press 'm' for memory	02:14
i_is_broke	k	02:17
bjsnider	jpg	02:25
BUGabundo	png	02:27
BUGabundo	BMP	02:27
BUGabundo	TIFF?	02:27
DanaG	pong	02:27
DanaG	poink	02:27
BUGabundo	snailmail ?!	02:27
i_is_broke	i still dont see anything that should be using that much memory?	02:27
BUGabundo	duke nuken ?	02:27
maco	s/n /m //	02:27
i_is_broke	its weird, gkrllem says its down to like 140 meg unused, but atop says im only using like 119 megs total.	02:29
i_is_broke	but it acts like i dont have any unused, its very doggish.	02:29
DanaG	argh, volume controls on ac97 audio with pulseaudio are rather thoroughly broken.	02:31
DanaG	conservative governor failed, too long transition latency of HW, fallback to performance governor	02:32
DanaG	grr.	02:32
oldude67	hold on ill send this to pastebin and show you what im talking about. by the way im i_is_broke this is my test box here.	02:32
DanaG	SO what if it has long latency? how do I override this?	02:32
oldude67	!pastebin	02:33
ubottu	For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com \| To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin \| !pastebinit to paste directly from command line \| Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic	02:33
BUGabundo	DanaG: ohh so that's why	02:34
BUGabundo	mine gets at performanceBAHH	02:34
DanaG	So you have either omgfullspeedallthetime or low-speed, and no auto-throttling at all!	02:34
DanaG	It used to give you slow throttling, at the very least!	02:34
oldude67	http://paste.ubuntu.com/340282/	02:35
oldude67	ok i cant handle this rebooting	02:37
oldude67	bbiab	02:37
DanaG	http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287463	02:39
ubottu	bugs.gentoo.org bug 287463 in Core system "Kernel modifications break ondemand frequency scaling from conserving power" [Major,Reopened]	02:39
DanaG	GRRRR!	02:39
DanaG	< Detailed C-state information is not P-states (frequencies)	02:42
DanaG	wtf?	02:42
DanaG	that's broken grammar.	02:42
DanaG	horrible, horrible, horrible: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/410948	02:54
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 410948 in pulseaudio "Volume too loud" [Medium,Confirmed]	02:54
bjsnider	wasn't there a similar bug in the karmic cycle?	02:55
DanaG	actually, what I'm seeing that on, is my old desktop... haven't booted it in months.	03:00
DanaG	Linux GLaDOS 2.6.31-5-generic #24-Ubuntu SMP Sat Aug 1 12:48:18 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux	03:01
DanaG	I'm upgrading it to Karmic final.	03:01
DanaG	My issue is different: as you slide the volume control in pulseaudio, the underlying hardware "sliders" get twiddled, seemingly randomly.	03:01
DanaG	I can even jiggle it around near 1% in pavucontrol, and you'll see surround and front each jump around separately.	03:02
oldude67	this is really getting annoying, i reboot and memory is fine now.	03:02
DanaG	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478604	03:19
ubottu	bugzilla.redhat.com bug 478604 in kernel "emu10k1: "Master" slider should be name "Front" because it only controls Front L+R." [Medium,New]	03:19
DanaG	this bug report, last post, describes the same symptoms as what I have with ac97.	03:19
rsk	how do you disable the screensaver	03:26
rsk	it just goes instantly black after 10minutes	03:27
dtchen	DanaG: I would need a codec dump and amixer output	03:33
DanaG	ah, I suppose I should update the kernel to at least karmic release-version first.	03:34
dtchen	DanaG: also, beware that it's very difficult to fix properly for "all" Creative cards driven by emu10k1, because different revisions of the Sigmatel 9750,1 act differently	03:34
DanaG	Oh yeah, the actual card I'm speaking of that has those symptoms, is ALC650, actually.	03:35
DanaG	it's just that the mixers behavior is broken the same way.	03:35
dtchen	oh, the Realteks are far worse	03:36
dtchen	at least there's method to the Sigmatel madness	03:36
bjsnider	i don't think i've heard you say anything good about any sound chips at all	03:38
DanaG	Anyway, since it's a machine I very rarely use (perhaps like once or twice a year, just for the heck of it), it's not too much of an issue.	03:38
DanaG	Hmm, I haven't really had any good sound chips. Then again, what would you call "good"?	03:38
DanaG	I have my screwy-dB USB card that confuses even Windows... my notebook Audigy that's cardbus, not expresscard... and I have various onboard sound chips on various computers.	03:39
bjsnider	well, maybe there aren't any good sound chips and the whole bloody business is just a giant con job	03:40
DanaG	I bet Aureal were the last good one... and Creative crushed them.	03:42
DanaG	I'm also curious about those Xonar cards.	03:43
DanaG	argh... stupid Apple keyboard (borrowed from my dad's closet)... keeps dying.	03:44
bjsnider	that's the cmxxxx chip right?	03:44
DanaG	Xonar PCI ones are 8788, or something.	03:45
bjsnider	i'd like to see dtchen write a blog about his recommended sound cards for use with ubuntu/pulse and vista/win7	03:46
bjsnider	i have a feeling it would be a short list	03:46
bjsnider	and of course it would have to include the cards he'd like us to stay away from	03:46
bjsnider	which would presumably be a much longer list	03:46
gnomefreak	anyone else lose TTYs	03:47
DanaG	damnit, the mouse died, too!	03:49
DanaG	And so did every other method of input.	03:50
DanaG	Including vnc... I could view, but no input worked!	03:50
bjsnider	bad case of lack of input	03:50
DanaG	And even ssh failed, too.	03:51
DanaG	Argh, it seems USB on the machine itself just perma-died.	03:53
bjsnider	restart udev	03:53
bjsnider	i guess you can't	03:53
DanaG	hmm, it un-died now.	03:54
DanaG	Had to hard power off.	03:54
DanaG	I pressed power button... it said "will now halt"... and then just sat there.	03:54
DanaG	In Xorg.,	03:54
dtchen	bjsnider: there are no "good" cards from my perspective; each has a list of known quirks and workarounds a mile long	03:55
dtchen	if you've ever done RE on a Windows driver, you'll see that, too	03:55
bjsnider	you meant o tell me there aren't some you'd say "do not buy this card on penalty of death"?	03:55
dtchen	that's a different question	03:56
dtchen	any card is acceptable if you're willing to accept the risk	03:56
bjsnider	there are certainly degrees of badness	03:56
dtchen	certainly	03:56
bjsnider	some must be less than awful	03:56
dtchen	sure. It largely depends on the desired feature set.	03:56
DanaG	Anyway, that motherboard has been through a PSU death (via exploded capacitor), so the state of the board itself is certainly screwed up in some way.	03:57
bjsnider	what if i desire bass/treble hardware controls?	03:57
dtchen	spend a few hundred bucks and get a pro card.	03:58
bjsnider	such as what?	03:58
dtchen	for the life of me, I don't know why you would want bass/treble hw controls on a card anyhow	03:58
gnomefreak	can we please move the non Lucid topics to #ubuntu-offtopic	03:58
DanaG	One pro card I tried: M-Audio something ice7412 or something.	03:58
DanaG	It actually made PulseAudio CRASH.	03:58
DanaG	Or rather, failed assertions.	03:58
DanaG	But, that was ages ago that I tried it.	03:59
dtchen	that's alsa-lib's fault	03:59
bjsnider	speaker system doesn't do any analog sound filtering	03:59
dtchen	I could pretty easily patch around it, but I'll incur the wrath of two upstreams	03:59
DanaG	dangit, now it won't boot... dies somewhere in radeon.	04:01
DanaG	Time to make radeon not load, the same way I made vga16fb not load: feed it garbage parameters.	04:01
DanaG	ARgh, now the stupid friendly-recovery thing doesn't even work!	04:03
DanaG	AND now... unable to mount root FS!	04:04
DanaG	And then keyboard stopped working again.	04:05
DanaG	Had to actually unplug PSU to get keyboard back.	04:06
DanaG	now where's sysrq on Apple?	04:08
DanaG	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/458352	04:10
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 458352 in mountall "Karmic - Corrupted Recovery Menu (dup-of: 456806)" [High,Incomplete]	04:10
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 456806 in mountall "mountall vomits a shell onto virtual console when you run vi" [High,Fix released]	04:10
DanaG	ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH	04:11
DanaG	HULK SMASH!	04:12
DanaG	And now keyboard died again. Grr....reat.	04:12
DanaG	hmm, has update-manager had lucid added as "a new development version" yet?	04:26
rsk	yes	04:26
DanaG	hmm, I "fixed" my usb breakage... by pulling out a PS/2 keyboard.	04:27
DanaG	grep: block: no such file or directory	04:27
DanaG	grep: devices: no such file or directory	04:27
DanaG	grep: found: no such file or directory	04:27
DanaG	Isn't that an old, now-fixed bug?	04:27
DanaG	=þ	04:27
DanaG	No wonder things were broken... that machine was left alone since August or so.	04:28
DanaG	And then:\	04:28
DanaG	no raid devices and with names: "no block devices found"	04:28
DanaG	AND with names?	04:28
DanaG	yay, now to upgrade that thing to lucid.	04:34
DanaG	grr, PCI SATA == le suck.	04:35
DanaG	Disk activity brings the whole system grinding to a halt.	04:35
gnomefreak	DanaG: please keep on lucid topic not you pc issues	04:36
DanaG	Anyway... time to upgrade to lucid, and try R300 KMS.	04:47
DanaG	sudo do-release-upgrade --devel-release: checking for a new ubuntu release......... no new release found.	04:55
DanaG	Do I just need to go the raw sources.list route?	04:55
rsk	i did sudo update-manger -d	04:56
rsk	and it found 10.04	04:56
DanaG	argh, but that needs Xorg, and I feel more comfortable doing upgrades under console (in case xorg dies, or such).	04:57
oldude67	9.10 is making me mad, im redoing my regular box and now its being totally stupid no mouse and dpkg is broke as well when doing their friggin updates. im having more problems with it then i am 10.04	04:58
oldude67	this is truely bogus as i installed the final release of karmic, its a total disaster, but if i install the beta release of karmic it works fine..ugh	05:26
oldude67	ill probably just go ahead and update it to lucid as well..and just skip karmic totally.	05:26
oldude67	im really starting to believe its the vista of ubuntu....:(	05:26
iflema	no....	05:27
DanaG	<insert "YOUR MOM" joke here>	05:27
oldude67	lol	05:27
DanaG	naaaw	05:27
DanaG	s/insert//	05:28
oldude67	any how, where do i go to look for bug reports launch pad? i want to see if anyone else is having memory issues as well?	05:29
dtchen	"memory issues"?	05:29
oldude67	yeah it seems like sometimes when i reboot the system, its using all but like 150 meg of ram on lxde or xfce.	05:30
rsk	memory is meant to be used	05:31
oldude67	and thats before i start any programs	05:31
rsk	as long as mem isn't filled up it's fine	05:31
oldude67	yeah but when your only running 512 thats alot to be used on nothing	05:31
DanaG	What's it filled up with?	05:31
DanaG	Cache, or filled by one program?	05:31
dtchen	that's intentional	05:32
oldude67	dont know everytime i try and check its like there are several programs bouncing around...	05:32
dtchen	linux caches aggressively, and you should know that ureadahead also is working	05:32
oldude67	then if i reboot i get about 350 meg free. and it runs normal.	05:32
DanaG	ALSA lib conf.c:2714:(snd_config_hooks_call) function X�Y ication.name returned error: Invalid argument	05:32
DanaG	and earlier:	05:32
DanaG	ALSA lib conf.c:1179:(parse_def) show is not a compound	05:32
DanaG	ALSA lib conf.c:1589:(snd_config_load1) _toplevel_:17:26:Unexpected char	05:32
dtchen	DanaG: what version?	05:33
DanaG	alsa-libs version?	05:33
dtchen	yes	05:33
DanaG	alsa-base:	05:33
DanaG	Version: 1.0.20+dfsg-1ubuntu5	05:33
oldude67	like im running gnome now and pidgin and xchat and amarok and still have 255 free meg after rebooting.	05:33
dtchen	karmic's?	05:33
DanaG	I'm upgrading it to lucid anyway... will check again once upgrade completes.	05:33
DanaG	Yeah, I think it's karmic's.	05:34
dtchen	yeah, I just uploaded a bunch of fixes earlier for alsa-*	05:34
dtchen	(lucid, of course)	05:34
DanaG	That old desktop has an R350 in it.	05:34
DanaG	oh yeah, and I figured out why Plymouth doesn't work.	05:35
DanaG	http://www.mail-archive.com/plymouth@lists.freedesktop.org/msg00045.html	05:36
DanaG	https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239	05:38
ubottu	Freedesktop bug 22239 in plymouth general "improve console= handling" [Normal,New]	05:38
oldude67	and yeah i know i need to get more ram for this thing, but it takes rambus memory and that crap is not cheap....and yes its crap.	05:38
DanaG	heh, probably cheaper to get a whole secondhand machine than to get more rdram.	05:38
oldude67	ya you know it.	05:39
oldude67	i was looking on ebay at it, and they want 100$ for a gig.	05:40
oldude67	thats why i have been running it on lxde or xfce.	05:41
DanaG	random: http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=394214	05:42
oldude67	hey that looks like my old crap i have running..lol	05:44
oldude67	na actually this is a dual p3 866	05:45
DanaG	Nifty.	05:45
oldude67	old dell optiplex gx300	05:45
DanaG	First dual-CPU system I ever used, was Dual P2 350, later upgraded to Dual P3-650. Used standard SDRAM. Dell Precision 410, I think it was. Even had SCSI onboard.	05:47
DanaG	Once I tried that, I knew I never wanted to go single-core again... in terms of responsiveness, it beat even my 2GHz Athlon XP.	05:48
DanaG	(granted, my AthlonXP system had tons of random stuff on it at the time.)	05:48
DanaG	grr, stupid apple mighty mouse... keeps turning itself off.	05:49
oldude67	yeah i just wished i had at least a gig of ram in it..would be a little better...oh well...for now it will work...just want to find out whats going on with the memory issue.	05:50
oldude67	someone said that nautilus had a memory leak, but i havent seen it.	05:50
DanaG	I've seen a leak in kded, I think.	05:51
DanaG	Had it cause OOM kills on a system with 4 gigs of RAM.	05:51
DanaG	But it only happened once.	05:51
dtchen	there is apparently a PA memleak, but no one has provided a useful valgrind (massif mode) trace	05:51
oldude67	well i tried booting in to gnome when it was doing that and before i could get the system to reboot i had a ton of things trying to start down on the bottom taskbar.	05:52
oldude67	next time it does it im going to try and see what it is thats trying to do that...	05:52
oldude67	actually im going to try and do an update and see if it will do it again.	05:52
oldude67	brb	05:52
DanaG	hmm, what's massif mode?	05:53
oldude67	now when i want it to do it it wont..go figure.	06:03
oldude67	rebooted the dang thing 4 times and its working now.	06:03
DanaG	http://pastebin.com/f2ef0b9ae	06:35
DanaG	radeon oops.	06:35
DanaG	grr, radeon is null-pointer-dereference'ing.	08:07
DanaG	www.pastebin.com/f2056135c	08:08
DanaG	er	08:08
rsk	any idea on howto disable the hidden screensaver	08:08
DanaG	www.pastebin.com/f2956135c	08:08
DanaG	http://pastebin.com/f2956135c	08:09
DanaG	ah	08:09
DanaG	oooh, thunder.	08:14
Hans_Henrik_	it should be OK to update from karmic to lucid now right?	08:16
Hans_Henrik_	(not like it crash half-way or something?)	08:16
rsk	maybe.	08:17
=== Hans_Henrik_ is now known as Hans_Henrik
DanaG		08:34
DanaG	Kernel driver in use: agpgart-nvidia	08:34
DanaG	Kernel modules: nvidia-agp	08:34
joaopinto	anyone else having the sound muted at each reboot	09:09
joaopinto	dtchen, ping	09:09
joaopinto	ops, there is an update to alsautils	09:10
DanaG	hmm, lucid is still giving me the same corrupt-file thingy.	09:12
DanaG	!find libatk-bridge.so	09:23
ubottu	File libatk-bridge.so found in at-spi, libatspi-dbg	09:24
=== debfx_ is now known as debfx
DanaG	http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=ba879241ee535ec75ec628f9f92e2a428348bbc4	09:29
DanaG	there's my alsa-info.	09:29
yofel	ok... just rebooted and I had a mixture of MY and the default kde desktop. 2 panels and a folderview more that messes up my desktop isn't what I expect from an update...	11:15
xray7224	wow i upgraded well too soon :P	11:34
xray7224	brb	11:37
xray7224	hmm i don't know whether to report a bug about my nvidia card	11:49
=== Trewas666 is now known as Trewas
xray7224	brb	11:58
xray7224	does anyone know when lucid will have the nvidia drivers	12:34
=== seren is now known as seren__
seren__	anyone on Kubuntu lucid alpha 1 ?	12:34
seren__	I got a strange problem where all my applications have disappeared from kickoff or lancelot, krunner	12:35
gianluigisk8	hello i do the upgrade now there are more problem with this alpha?	13:40
SwedeMike	my X hasn't been working for 3 days, I get signal 11 in my xorg.log, so yeah, at least some problems.	13:41
gianluigisk8	so work great?	13:42
SwedeMike	gianluigisk8: what?	13:43
knue	hi. i currently have the probl that plasma-desktop isn't started automatically when logging into KDE. Is this a known probl? Or have I messed up sth by myself?	13:43
gianluigisk8	it's work good?	13:43
=== Ricey_ is now known as Ricey
SwedeMike	gianluigisk8: I just told you my X doesn't work, why are you asking that?	13:43
gianluigisk8	ah sorry...	13:44
gianluigisk8	i do the upgrade now	13:44
gianluigisk8	You have other problem?	13:45
i_is_broke	gianluigisk8, you might want to wait a bit. people are having and issue with x	13:45
gianluigisk8	sorry ^^ what you intend eith X?	13:46
gianluigisk8	with*	13:46
SwedeMike	gianluigisk8: the graphics interface.	13:46
i_is_broke	gianluigisk8, depending on your graphics card, X may not work	13:47
SwedeMike	gianluigisk8: so with my nvidia gfx card, I get no graphics, only text mode.	13:47
gianluigisk8	ah,.. i have got ati radeon 1600 xt	13:47
gianluigisk8	i'm not more expert with the text mode	13:48
i_is_broke	SwedeMike, they was talking about nvidia graphics last night and a work around. if bugabundo comes in ask him, he was one of them talking about it..something about the 190 driver.	13:48
i_is_broke	this computer uses the sis chip set so its not to bad, and other computer is an old nvidia tnt2 that loads with just the nv.	13:50
bjsnider	the nouveau driver will work with the old card	13:51
gianluigisk8	bho i try it now than it not work i reistall 9.10	13:51
i_is_broke	gianluigisk8, g/l	13:55
gianluigisk8	what?	14:01
gianluigisk8	g/l??	14:02
Ketsuban	"Good luck". I think.	14:02
gianluigisk8	ah XD	14:03
BUGabundo	hey guys	14:43
i_is_broke	hello	14:54
BUGabundo	ola i_is_broke	14:55
eagles0513875	hehe BUGabundo	14:55
* mac_v cries		14:55
* BUGabundo gives mac_v a tissue		14:55
eagles0513875	question for ya granted its karmic related but whats the name of the package for software compilation 4.3.4	14:55
i_is_broke	BUGabundo, wasnt it you last night talking about the nvidia driver?	14:55
i_is_broke	or was it DanaG	14:56
BUGabundo	no idea	14:56
BUGabundo	what do you want to know?	14:56
mac_v	anyone know of a bug in synaptic ? i cant find any apps in synaptic Lucid[coulnt find xchat/conky... nothing ]... had to come back to karmic :(	14:56
i_is_broke	someone was in here earlier did update and had no x and last night i remember someone talking about uploading a ppa for the 190 driver.	14:57
i_is_broke	and he was running a new nvidia card.	14:57
i_is_broke	but hey who knows i have slept since then too.	14:57
BUGabundo	not me	14:57
BUGabundo	mac_v: humm I had a prob with running newly installed apps	14:57
i_is_broke	might of been dtchen too..	14:57
BluesKaj	mac_v, how did you upgrade to lucid firstly	14:57
BUGabundo	until I open a new terminal	14:58
mac_v	i installed lucid on a separate partition	14:58
mac_v	clean install	14:58
i_is_broke	well anyways, im out for a while, going to church..be back later..have a good one.	14:58
eagles0513875	any idea wht the name of this package is in its ppa http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.3.4	15:03
mac_v	eagles0513875: ,i believe it is a pre-release for 4.3.4 , it has loads of packages	15:09
mac_v	well thats what i understood of KDE SC...	15:09
* mac_v hides... never used KDE for too long ;p		15:09
eagles0513875	lol	15:10
eagles0513875	can never find any kde users in here :( all on gnome	15:10
Mitch	True. :(	15:11
eagles0513875	u kde as well Mitch	15:11
Mitch	When I'm using Linux, yes.	15:12
eagles0513875	what desktop environment?	15:12
Mitch	Mostly in a VM, FWIW.	15:12
eagles0513875	hehe im going to be trying out lucid in a vm for now	15:13
Mitch	Like I answered, KDE.	15:13
eagles0513875	ahhh sry mis read that	15:13
Torch	when i try to run the installer on the kubuntu lucid alpha cd it just quits without any error message. how can i get it to run? or diagnose what's the problem?	15:17
=== nastas_ is now known as nastas
mac_v	Torch: did you use manual partitioning and "format" partition and install?	15:25
Torch	mac_v: i booted from the CD in virtualbox.	15:26
Torch	mac_v: now the installer icon sits there in a folder view. when i double click it nothing happens. when i run the app behind it ("ubiquity"), it just quits.	15:27
mac_v	Torch: oh... so it stopped , even ahead of the install process	15:27
Torch	mac_v: it does not run at all. no signs of life.	15:27
mac_v	Torch: try the install option, install of the try Kubuntu	15:27
mac_v	instead of*	15:28
yofel	eagles0513875: pong (KDE user)	15:28
eagles0513875	yofel: have you tried the software-compilation package in the ppa	15:28
yofel	eagles0513875: and KDE SC is just the new official name for KDE	15:28
eagles0513875	O_o	15:29
eagles0513875	ahh ok	15:29
yofel	eagles0513875: http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand	15:30
yofel	it IS a bit confusing at first	15:31
Torch	mac_v: the "install kubuntu" grub entry takes me to the desktop with the folder view, install icon and i'm back on square one ;-)	15:31
mac_v	lol...	15:31
BluesKaj	I'm looking for the media options , but system settings in kubuntu lucid no longer gives it ..wonder where to look ?	15:31
yofel	BluesKaj: the phonon kcm doesn't build with the lucid phonon version yet, it's being worked on	15:32
BluesKaj	yofel, ok , i just the apt-cache policy to make sure pulseaudio wasn't included with lucid by default .. media seems fine so far tho	15:35
BluesKaj	did	15:35
yofel	BluesKaj: bug 494643	15:36
ubottu	Launchpad bug 494643 in kdebase-runtime "No kcm_phonon in kdebase-runtime after upgrade to 4.4-beta1" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494643	15:36
mrmcq2u	anyone any idea when dri2 is being enabled for radeon driver for lucid?	15:37
mrmcq2u	was using it on karmic through a third party ppa and its been enabled in fedora the last two releases at the least	15:38
mrmcq2u	would be nice to be able to work with clutter with compiz enabled :)	15:38
BluesKaj	yofel, what about the printer configuration ..I'm getting the "orphaned control module message " :(	15:41
yofel	BluesKaj: no idea, I use hplip	15:41
BluesKaj	ok	15:41
BluesKaj	maybe I should too , which file do I set that up in ?	15:42
yofel	BluesKaj: its a seperate app, install hplip-gui	15:42
yofel	JontheEchidna: do you know something about the printer module?	15:42
BluesKaj	right on, yofel	15:42
_Groo_	mrmcq2u: its enabled, just use radeon.modeset=1 when loading lucid at grub line	15:43
JontheEchidna	yeah, it's busted until kdebindings can build, which beta1 can't.	15:43
_Groo_	mrmcq2u: unfortunatelly kde 4.4 is broken with radeon and some other cards right now, but compiz works	15:43
JontheEchidna	fairly usual for that to happen with kdebindings around beta	15:43
BluesKaj	yofel, I thought it might be like the network/interfaces file for eth0	15:43
JontheEchidna	and since the printer module uses the python bindings...	15:44
yofel	ah ok	15:44
JontheEchidna	yeah, not nice, but not unusual and should resolve itself in beta2 or RC1 or so	15:44
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: also koffice and kdenlive are broken, i reported to neverfelde yesterday about it	15:44
mrmcq2u	_Groo - using gnome	15:44
_Groo_	mrmcq2u: ah ok, then just enable the modesetting and be happy with compiz	15:45
mrmcq2u	_Groo - any idea whether kms is enabled? I know it supports it as plymouth worked nicely with fedora	15:45
seren__	JontheEchidna: any ideas why my applications have disappeared completely from kickoff, lancelot, krunner or file association. It looks like Kde have forgotten about them	15:45
seren__	I can launch them though	15:45
JontheEchidna	hmm	15:46
JontheEchidna	Did everything upgrade successfully? That's the only thing I can think of	15:46
yofel	ah that reminds me, after some update I had a desktop that consited of my configuration and the default configuration merged together. e.g. 2 panels, 2 folderview applets...	15:46
_Groo_	mrmcq2u: kms is enabled but you need to pass radeon.modeset=1 to grub at boot time	15:46
seren__	seems so but who knows...I might have a corrupted file somewhere :)	15:46
JontheEchidna	yofel: yeah, kubuntu-default-settings got a plasma-desktop-appletsrc so that plasma wouldn't crash for the iso	15:47
yofel	JontheEchidna: ok	15:47
mrmcq2u	_Groo - any eta on when grub defaults to enabling them?	15:47
_Groo_	mrmcq2u: ask the kubuntu gods, JontheEchidna for one , or neverfeld, apachelloger... im a minion	15:47
yofel	JontheEchidna: will that happen on every login for now, or was that only a one-time config reload?	15:48
BUGabundo	JontheEchidna: kmail keeps complaining about nepomuk on GNOME :(((	15:48
JontheEchidna	yofel: should be one time	15:48
yofel	:)	15:48
JontheEchidna	BUGabundo: same here :(	15:48
_Groo_	BUGabundo: thats because lucid is missing virtuoso ¬¬	15:48
BUGabundo	guys we need more testers for Chromium Beta... please help testing it https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/beta	15:48
mrmcq2u	_Groo - oh so its kde bugs that are holding it back atm?	15:48
BUGabundo	_Groo_: ahh	15:48
BUGabundo	I tried to disable all akonadi services	15:48
_Groo_	BUGabundo: im using it for almost 6 months.. works like a charm	15:48
BUGabundo	but no go :(	15:48
BUGabundo	_Groo_: not trunk... BETA	15:49
_Groo_	BUGabundo: ah :P	15:49
BUGabundo	meant for more "common" users	15:49
mrmcq2u	hehehe - been testing from that ppa for ages now	15:50
_Groo_	any eta for virtuoso btw?	15:50
mrmcq2u	oh wait no	15:50
mrmcq2u	been using daily	15:50
JontheEchidna	_Groo_: whenever it hits debian	15:50
BUGabundo	mrmcq2u: right me too	15:50
mrmcq2u	:)	15:50
mrmcq2u	yet still more stable than ... cough cough	15:50
mrmcq2u	I need not say more :D	15:51
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: is there any ppa i could use?	15:51
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: while waiting for debian?	15:51
JontheEchidna	dunno	15:51
JontheEchidna	I think Lex was doing something like that	15:51
JontheEchidna	for karmic at least	15:51
mrmcq2u	one thing that annoys me over firefox though is that when you have lots of tabs you cant see from a glance what they are because there are no icons or text for them :(	15:51
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: btw is project neon still working for kde? kde daily builds?	15:52
JontheEchidna	_Groo_: Quintasan is working on resurrecting it	15:52
_Groo_	JontheEchidna: oh ok	15:53
seren__	can you tell me what you have in ~/.local/share/applications cause I only have wine and 'applications' belongs to root:root	15:57
seren__	which does not seem right	15:57
yofel	seren__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/340600/	15:59
JontheEchidna	It might be a good idea to run: sudo chown -R seren.seren ~/	15:59
seren__	yep	15:59
seren__	thx yofel	15:59
yofel	hm, anyone an idea how to debug a kmail freeze?	16:01
BUGabundo	not freezing here yofel	16:01
yofel	when I press <enter> to open a mail it just sits there unresponsive with 0% cpu	16:01
BUGabundo	run it on gdb	16:01
BUGabundo	well I got a bit of unresponsive	16:01
BUGabundo	but it was mouse input only	16:02
yofel	well, I mean: unresponsive as in: screenshot mode	16:02
=== seren is now known as seren__
BUGabundo	not here	16:10
BUGabundo	not latelly at least	16:10
BUGabundo	early this week, yes	16:10
BUGabundo	it would crash	16:10
=== seren is now known as seren__
_Groo_	BUGabundo: are you using kde daily ?	16:11
BUGabundo	no	16:11
BUGabundo	oficial repo	16:11
BUGabundo	$ apt-cache policy kmail Installed: 4:4.3.80-0ubuntu2	16:11
BUGabundo	500 http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Packages	16:12
_Groo_	BUGabundo: ah ok	16:12
_Groo_	BUGabundo: is klipper working for you? its mpty for me always	16:12
BUGabundo	I use gnome	16:12
BUGabundo	so parcelite here	16:12
_Groo_	BUGabundo: ¬¬	16:13
BUGabundo	?!	16:13
_Groo_	BUGabundo: just run klipper and see if it shows any text, i want to be sure before reporting the bug	16:13
seren__	Groo : same here, empty klipper	16:13
BUGabundo	tehre you go	16:13
_Groo_	seren__: ah ok, its a bug then, not my config thats broken	16:14
yofel	klipper works fine here...	16:14
BUGabundo	LOL	16:14
BUGabundo	yofel: when nothing else does?!	16:14
BUGabundo	:p	16:14
yofel	BUGabundo: well, most things work, it just seems to be quite random what does and what doesn't work :/	16:15
_Groo_	yofel: it does oO? kde 4.4?	16:15
yofel	wtf? I can read mails in kmail if I open them as 'edit mail'	16:15
yofel	but when I open them kmail freezes...	16:16
BUGabundo	yofel: its too soon to begging KDE madness	16:16
BUGabundo	its usually only around A3	16:16
yofel	_Groo_: yes, klipper 4:4.3.80-0ubuntu2	16:16
BUGabundo	but I guess you gonna do like I do: install GDB packages	16:16
_Groo_	yofel: very strange	16:16
BUGabundo	and run everything on GDB :)	16:16
yofel	BUGabundo: well, IT WORKED, some update broke iit	16:16
_Groo_	yofel: well im using latest X ppa, maybe its a xclipboard bug	16:17
BUGabundo	prob is : our kubuntu ninjas can't do much about it	16:17
yofel	_Groo_: edgers? might be	16:17
yofel	BUGabundo: well yeah, I'm just confused since it worked yesterday and is broken today...	16:17
_Groo_	yofel: yeah but i have a cursed radeon card, i need edgers :P	16:18
yofel	maybe something broke on login initialization...	16:18
_Groo_	seren__: are you using what x, seren?	16:18
BUGabundo	" yofel have you rebooted it yet?" lol	16:18
seren__	what x version do you mean ?	16:19
yofel	BUGabundo: yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of right now... *-.-	16:19
BUGabundo	ahahahahahahaahhahaa	16:19
yofel	well, let's check the retrace...	16:19
_Groo_	seren__: the version of Xorg, is lucid stack of xorg edgers?	16:20
seren__	this is the lucid stack from the official repositories without the xorg ppa	16:20
yofel	http://paste.ubuntu.com/340606/ seems fine to me...	16:21
seren__	xserver-common: 2:1.7.2-2ubuntu2	16:21
yofel	bt with drkonqi after killing kmail	16:21
_Groo_	yofel: see, seren is using stack and klipper is broken for him too... very strange indeed	16:21
yofel	true... maybe I have some package installed that it needs to run and you don't? (I have pretty much all kde/-dev/-dbg packages installed)	16:23
_Groo_	yofel: gonna check	16:24
yofel	could be a missing dependency	16:24
BUGabundo	yofel: kill the remaing KIO locks :)	16:25
BUGabundo	$ dpkg -l \| pastebinit http://paste.ubuntu.com/340613/	16:26
BUGabundo	incase you guys need to compare	16:26
BUGabundo	pretty basic stuff from fresh install	16:26
BUGabundo	and a few required superuser packages	16:27
BUGabundo	I should do a meta package for that eheh	16:27
BUGabundo	ubuntu-desktop++ LOL	16:27
Sarvatt	BUGabundo: sudo apt-get install nvidia-190-kernel-source :D	16:38
BUGabundo	hey Sarvatt	16:39
BUGabundo	long time no see	16:39
Sarvatt	heyo man!	16:39
BUGabundo	how are you doing ?	16:39
Sarvatt	good, just fiddling with nvidia in edgers since its so messed up right now :D	16:40
BUGabundo	err	16:41
BUGabundo	its working here	16:41
BUGabundo	:)	16:41
BUGabundo	don't mess it too much	16:41
Sarvatt	185 is working for you?	16:41
BUGabundo	yep	16:41
BUGabundo	besides that vdpau issue :)	16:42
Sarvatt	you sure you arent using vesa? :D	16:42
BUGabundo	did you know the bronco the assembled my GPU 18 months ago, left a seal over the GPU	16:42
BUGabundo	making it much HOTTER then needed?	16:42
BUGabundo	heh	16:42
Sarvatt	185 wont even load with the xorg 7.5 libs	16:42
BUGabundo	Sarvatt: how can I test?? I'm running compiz	16:43
BUGabundo	right 7.5 is broken	16:43
BUGabundo	I had to downgrade	16:43
Sarvatt	but you're using xserver 1.8 on that list you pasted	16:43
Sarvatt	oh just common	16:44
Sarvatt	wow thats a screwed up setup you got there :D	16:44
BUGabundo	http://paste.ubuntu.com/340619/	16:45
BUGabundo	Sarvatt: how come?	16:45
BUGabundo	my setup is pretty clean	16:45
BUGabundo	no great mess here	16:45
Sarvatt	BUGabundo: sorry, wasnt looking at irc there, I put a 190 series nvidia blob in edgers that'll work with all the rest of the xorg 7.5 stuff though if you're already using it	16:51
BUGabundo	cool	16:51
BUGabundo	I'll test it latter	16:51
BUGabundo	gonna grab some food and watch the rest of Final Destination 4	16:52
BUGabundo	usually I multitask, but this film is too good to miss its bits :9	16:52
yofel	hey nice... dolphin can't handle sftp:// any more...	16:54
yofel	"Invalid Protocol"	16:54
yofel	uh... kio_sftp.so is missing...	16:56
JontheEchidna	yofel: yeah, they switched to using libssh for sftp and we're still working on the Main Inclusion Report for libssh	16:56
JontheEchidna	once it gets a security review we'll be able to build the ssh kio slave	16:57
yofel	JontheEchidna: ok :) can you put a short comment on bug 496208	16:57
ubottu	Launchpad bug 496208 in kdebase-workspace "sftp:// protocol no longer works in KDE 4.4 on lucid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496208	16:58
JontheEchidna	done	16:58
yofel	thanks!	16:59
seren__	regarding ftp, there is something strange	17:02
seren__	I used to save a file I was editing with kate on a remote server and it was updated at once	17:02
seren__	now I need to close kate to get a pop up asking for update	17:02
yofel	seren__: indeed	17:05
penguin42	does the current lucid build of radeonhd have the 3d support for r700 based cards - I know it's very very new?	17:13
Ian_Corne	what aviyt 77O cards? :D	17:19
nastas	is there anyone that knows to help about internal card reader on a laptop?	17:50
shadeslayer	nastas: max i know is that if it doesnt work check dmesg	17:51
nastas	shadeslayer: i did. nothing about card. i might screw my card reader :)	17:55
shadeslayer	nastas: hehe... does it work in some other PC/OS ?	17:58
nastas	shadeslayer: yep	17:59
shadeslayer	nastas: wierd then... does some other device work in the same USB port?	17:59
LLStarks	how do i access the authorization menu?>	17:59
LLStarks	i need to modify my access	17:59
nastas	shadeslayer: it's an onboard card reader. and it almost works if i boot a livecd	18:00
penguin42	nastas: The hardware for those varies quite a bit - mine shows up as an mmc device	18:01
shadeslayer	nastas: hmm... no idea,try lsmod on the live CD and compare the modules with the install	18:01
penguin42	nastas@ Try dmesg\|grep mmc - mine shows 'mmc0: SDHCI controller on PCI [0000:07:06.3] using DMA'	18:01
shadeslayer	in lspci mine is shown as : 03:09.1 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter (rev 22)	18:02
penguin42	yeh in mine lspci shows me both Mass storage controller: Texas Instruments 5-in-1 Multimedia Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/xD) and Host controller: Texas Instruments PCIxx12 SDA Standard Compliant SD Host Controller	18:03
nastas	same here penguin42 except the dmesg \| grep the output is different	18:05
DanaG	hmm, are tifm_7xx1 and tifm_sd loaded?	18:05
penguin42	nastas: What do you see on your dmesg ?	18:05
DanaG	that'd be for TI card reader.	18:05
DanaG	Mine's Ricoh... no DMA by default, bleh.	18:05
nastas	penguin42: mmc0: SDHCI controller on PCI [0000:02:09.4] using PIO	18:06
shadeslayer	nastas: does it not show up in dolphin or nautilus?	18:07
penguin42	nastas: well that looks OK; what happens if you put a card in?	18:07
nastas	when i'm insert a card nothing happens	18:07
penguin42	nastas: Nothing at all appears in dmesg ?	18:08
shadeslayer	nastas: what about dmesg \| tail ?	18:08
=== astechgeek is now known as techgeek
nastas	shadeslayer: http://pastebin.ubuntu-gr.org/m7bd11cfb	18:09
nastas	thats the output	18:09
shadeslayer	nastas: did you remove and put the card in again?	18:09
nastas	yes	18:10
nastas	yes shadeslayer i did	18:10
shadeslayer	hmm.. weird	18:10
penguin42	nastas: What does lspci \| grep 02:09.4 give ?	18:10
nastas	02:09.4 SD Host controller: Texas Instruments PCI6411/6421/6611/6621/7411/7421/7611/7621 Secure Digital Controller	18:11
shadeslayer	its detected but not respondig ;P	18:11
nastas	yep	18:11
penguin42	nastas: lsmod \| grep -i ti ?	18:12
penguin42	nastas: sorry, grep -i tifm	18:12
nastas	the output of "lsmod \| grep -i tifm" is an absolute nothing	18:13
nastas	nothing happens	18:13
penguin42	weird	18:13
nastas	lol i know	18:14
penguin42	try modprobe tifm_core and tifm_7xx1	18:14
nastas	FATAL: Could not open '/lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/kernel/drivers/misc/tifm_core.ko': No such file or directory	18:14
shadeslayer	nastas: sudo modprobe	18:15
shadeslayer	nastas: not just modprobe ....	18:15
nastas	the same output	18:16
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
nastas	nastas@lazaros:~$ sudo modprobe tifm_core	18:16
nastas	FATAL: Could not open '/lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/kernel/drivers/misc/tifm_core.ko': No such file or directory	18:16
shadeslayer	nastas: what about the other one?	18:16
nastas	tha same	18:16
penguin42	nastas: What kernels do you have in /lib/module ? and uname -a shows which kernel?	18:16
penguin42	sorry, /lib/modules	18:17
nastas	Linux lazaros 2.6.31-17-generic #54-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 10 16:20:31 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux	18:17
DanaG	31-17 is karmic, not lucid.	18:18
nastas	yep	18:19
penguin42	nastas: I think you are running a kernel that you haven't got the packages installed for somehow, and hence don't have the modules	18:19
shadeslayer	nastas: then why are you here?	18:19
shadeslayer	nastas: do you have karmic or lucid?	18:20
nastas	karmic and just asking a solution for my problem. is this so wrong?	18:20
penguin42	nastas: It's the wrong channel to ask in technically	18:21
shadeslayer	nastas: please ask in #ubuntu or #kubuntu	18:22
nastas	ok. thnx for you help anyway	18:22
penguin42	nastas: People will get confused into wondering if it's something that's just been broken in lucid	18:22
nastas	ok	18:22
nastas	you're right	18:22
penguin42	nastas: Anyway, check that you do actually have the kernel in /lib/modules/blah	18:22
nastas	ok	18:22
dtchen	joaopinto: pong	18:29
dtchen	joaopinto: right, my last alsa-utils upload was precisely for that bug	18:31
dtchen	I just haven't gone back and triaged all the bug reports yet; there are probably a couple dozen	18:31
sal_	advice on "partial ugdate"?	18:47
sal_	first time testing a devel release	18:48
sal_	have a stable alpha running	18:48
seren__	sal : just wait for a few hours/ days	18:48
yofel	sal_: advice: never do partial upgrades	18:48
yofel	sal_: rather open a terminal and update with 'sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade'	18:49
yofel	or yes, wait a few days, but then something else might be broken ^^	18:49
sal_	i tried two days ago, and several times since. still offering only partial	18:50
yofel	sal_: then use aptitude to find out why	18:50
sal_	yofel, this is safe/ best way - the comman lines?	18:50
yofel	sal_: well, the cli tools are what I'm most familiar with, there might be a gui, but don't know much there	18:51
sal_	this is new to me. i would like to learn the terminal bits for this	18:51
yofel	hm...	18:52
yofel	!terminal	18:52
ubottu	The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal	18:52
sal_	'sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade' -- ?is best way for normal updates?	18:52
yofel	sal_: the guide is pretty nice for beginners	18:52
yofel	sal_: it's the best way for updates that won't break anything	18:53
sal_	i have been reading some of the guide	18:53
yofel	sal_: what I like is the interactive mode, just run 'sudo aptitude' and see ;)	18:54
sal_	great, thanks. just what i am looking for	18:54
yofel	there you'll see if packages are held back and can easy switch different solutions	18:54
yofel	takes a bit getting used to though	18:55
sal_	wow	18:55
sal_	how do i read all this?	18:55
sal_	or use it?	18:55
yofel	sal_: aptitude uses vi keybindings	18:56
yofel	use hjkl for scrolling	18:56
yofel	+ - for adding/removing packages	18:56
yofel	/ to search for packages	18:57
sal_	is there a man page?	18:57
yofel	certainly, man aptitude	18:58
sal_	got it	18:58
sal_	what is the difference between aptitude and apt?	18:58
sal_	or apt-get, for example?	18:59
yofel	well, aptitude has the better interface and a (sometimes) more intelligent dependency-resolver	19:00
yofel	but mostly it's the same as apt-get	19:00
yofel	actually...	19:01
yofel	!aptitude	19:01
ubottu	aptitude is another terminal-based front-end to APT. Like other APT front-ends, it can install/remove packages and their dependencies. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptitudeSurvivalGuide	19:01
sal_	thanks.	19:02
sal_	and the two sudo lines you gave above .. run those together always?	19:02
yofel	well, not necessary, 'sudo aptitude update' (or 'u' in the interface) will refresh the package cache (same as apt-get update)	19:03
yofel	you only need to do that once in a while	19:03
yofel	we usually post those together here to make sure you have a up-to-date package cache	19:04
yofel	sudo aptitude safe-upgrade will then actually do the updating	19:04
BUGabundo	why can't the darn bright settings get there act toghether !?!? grrrr	19:04
yofel	&& makes sure the 2. command is only run if the 1. command doesn't fail	19:05
sal_	so if i am wanting to do just basic updates through the lucid devel .. ? once a week, or ?	19:05
BUGabundo	sal_: I do twice a day	19:05
BUGabundo	$ aptitudeupdate :D	19:05
yofel	:D	19:05
BUGabundo	got an alias and everythign	19:05
BUGabundo	alias aptitudeupgrade='sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade'	19:06
BUGabundo	but don't do, the FULL.... please DON'T (try this at home)	19:06
sal_	BUGabundo, not sure what all that means .. -v a bit please?	19:06
seren__	I didn't knew aptitude interactive mode	19:06
seren__	this is quite nice	19:06
BUGabundo	seren__: best way to upgrade	19:07
BUGabundo	sal_: just keep running update-manager	19:07
seren__	since I am using apt-get usually	19:07
BUGabundo	but don't do partial upgrades ok ?	19:07
sal_	i have been, but it has only been offering the 'partial'	19:07
BUGabundo	seren__: I was like that up to one year ago	19:07
yofel	BUGabundo: the partial part was where this discussion began ;)	19:07
seren__	is this a bad idea to switch back and forth between aptitude and apt-get N	19:07
sal_	so i am looking for another way ..	19:07
BUGabundo	then I found aptitude manage depency much better	19:07
BUGabundo	so thanks to KDE mess :)	19:07
BUGabundo	seren__: no	19:08
BUGabundo	sal_: try $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade	19:08
sal_	what i am really here for today .. to find an good/best/safe way to keep lucid updated. am new to testing/ devel	19:08
BUGabundo	just to see if anything is stuck	19:08
sal_	but not the Full part, right?	19:09
BUGabundo	yep, don't	19:09
BUGabundo	just CHECK	19:09
BUGabundo	I only do that if im really sure it's a depency jump	19:10
BUGabundo	and not broken depencies	19:10
sal_	so .. $ sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade	19:11
sal_	twice daily with vinegar?	19:11
sal_	;-)	19:11
sal_	should keep me good ..?	19:11
BUGabundo	no	19:11
BUGabundo	It should keep in a mess	19:12
sal_	good/bad/ugly mess?	19:12
BUGabundo	good mess	19:12
sal_	thanks, just what i'm after .. i think	19:13
sal_	when would i want to do the Full part? at the alpha2?	19:14
sal_	or .. ?	19:14
yofel	sal_: sometimes package depdencies are changed during development, like recently when upstart was removed from ubuntu-desktop to make place for plymouth	19:14
yofel	sal_: aptitude safe-upgrade in this case will NOT remove usplash	19:15
yofel	argh, s/upstart/usplash	19:15
sal_	gotcha	19:15
sal_	but later it may be removed at a safer time/place?	19:16
yofel	sal_: full-upgrade will remove usplash, but you first have to see if what aptitude wants to do is intended by the developers or not	19:16
yofel	sal_: if not: you'll probably break your system	19:16
sal_	ok. being new to using a devel release, i'm just trying to crawl along and KISS	19:17
yofel	sal_: no problem, hang out here and ask questions, you'll learn it with the time	19:17
sal_	will do. thanks for the patient help	19:18
yofel	sal_: you might want to check this ML if you want to keep up with the changes in lucid: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Lucid-changes	19:19
yofel	those are the package changelogs	19:19
sal_	i'll read it and see if i can decipher any of it ;-)	19:20
sal_	ML =?	19:20
sal_	!ML	19:20
ubottu	Mail is another medium to communicate. Ubuntu mailing lists can be found at http://lists.ubuntu.com	19:20
yofel	you can get a changelog for a specific package with 'aptitude changelog <package>' too	19:20
=== BUGabundo1 is now known as BUGabundo
joaopinto	dtchen, it fixed it, thanks	19:35
=== BUGabundo is now known as BUGabundo_lunch
DanaG	weird... viafb has horrible visual glitches.	20:27
IdleOne	DanaG: how did the upgrade go?	20:28
DanaG	oh, that radeon? it caused null-pointer dereferences until I passed radeon.agpmode=-1.	20:30
=== BUGabundo_lunch is now known as BUGabundo
DanaG	oh, and I've swapped the drive over to another system, for a little while, and now need help with this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257924	20:31
IdleOne	DanaG: I was tlaking about the upgrade to Lucid you mentioned last night	20:33
IdleOne	talking*	20:33
IdleOne	something about do-release-upgrade not working	20:33
DanaG	Yeah, do-release-upgrade didn't work.	20:37
DanaG	Had to use the GTK update-manager.	20:37
IdleOne	I am a little nervous about upgrading	20:38
IdleOne	then again I could always just reinstall	20:39
dtchen	DanaG: that's a bit odd; the backend is identical	20:39
DanaG	Yeah, weird.	20:39
IdleOne	here goes nothing	20:40
DanaG	I could also use this thing: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/code/	20:40
IdleOne	where can I look at a default karmic sources.list?	20:41
IdleOne	mine seems to have some weird repos init	20:42
IdleOne	in it*	20:42
BUGabundo	IdleOne: comment them prior to upgrade	20:44
IdleOne	BUGabundo: good idea	20:44
BUGabundo	IdleOne: I _think_ UM does it for you non the less	20:45
IdleOne	well it's the backport repos that seem to be causing the issue	20:46
IdleOne	and proposed	20:46
BUGabundo	there are none on +1	20:50
IdleOne	http://paste.ubuntu.com/340768/	20:51
IdleOne	BUGabundo: ^^ any ideas?	20:54
BUGabundo	comment them ?	20:54
BUGabundo	you dotn need them for nor	20:54
BUGabundo	*now	20:54
IdleOne	I don't see them in sources.list	20:54
yofel	wasn't that the canonical partner repos?	20:54
yofel	I have 'deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu lucid partner' in my sources list	20:56
BUGabundo	damn it	20:57
yofel	IdleOne: what does grep 'partner' /etc/apt/sources.list give you?	20:57
BUGabundo	there must be a way to make pidgin fonts bigger	20:57
BUGabundo	I'm going BLIND IN HERE	20:58
BUGabundo	HEEELLLPPPPP	20:58
yofel	BUGabundo: mom	20:58
BUGabundo	this stupid thing got extremlly small fonts Friday	20:58
BUGabundo	and I can't make them bigger	20:59
BUGabundo	I can't read this	20:59
BUGabundo	spending two day with this F*** is driving me crazyt	20:59
yofel	hm, pidgin seems to have changed a lot since I last used it...	21:00
BUGabundo	it did, in this last update	21:00
BUGabundo	mostly settigns menu	21:00
DanaG	grr, something randomly decided to bring my system grinding to a high-load halt.	21:01
BUGabundo	come one	21:05
BUGabundo	some one here must be albe to help me	21:05
BUGabundo	or you guys and galls like me so much you want me out of here?!?!	21:05
BUGabundo	ok, ill try #pidgin	21:05
* BUGabundo puts armor suit on		21:05
IdleOne	BUGabundo: use a real IRC client :P	21:05
BUGabundo	wish me luck	21:06
IdleOne	luck	21:06
BUGabundo	DAMN IT	21:07
BUGabundo	I'm downgrading to pidgin PPA	21:07
BUGabundo	what the heck...	21:08
BUGabundo	synaptic doesn't let me downgrade?	21:08
BUGabundo	and shows NO error ?	21:08
BUGabundo	heck... I'll use compiz zoom instead	21:10
BUGabundo	ZERO replies in #pidgin... as usual	21:10
BUGabundo	at least no one is throwing me chairs the moment I say "ubuntu"	21:11
yofel	BUGabundo: how about... xchat, quassel, chatzilla, ...	21:11
BUGabundo	yofel: never liked xchat or chatzilla	21:11
BUGabundo	never tried quassel	21:11
BUGabundo	but I love to have all IM/µblogging/IRC in one window	21:12
IdleOne	BUGabundo: and yofel thanks for the hints btw	21:13
BUGabundo	np	21:14
yofel	you're welcome	21:14
* Tscheesy 's updating his Kubuntu Netbook Edition :)		21:25
* popey hands BUGabundo a copy of irssi,bitlbee and twirssi :)		21:25
BUGabundo	thanks popey	21:26
BUGabundo	does any of those groups all my IM protocols ?	21:26
popey	bitlbee does	21:26
popey	i use one window for all my IM/irc/microblogging... screen running on a remote server with irssi, twirssi and bitlbee running in it	21:27
BUGabundo	let me try it then	21:27
BUGabundo	"An IRC to other chat networks gateway"	21:28
BUGabundo	err not what I need	21:28
popey	why?	21:28
BUGabundo	its a gateway	21:29
BUGabundo	I need a client	21:29
popey	the client is irssi, the irc client	21:29
popey	so in the irc client i have irc, MSn, yahoo, google talk, icq etc, and twitter and identica	21:30
BUGabundo	ahh	21:30
sal_	yofel, i managed all the upgrades from earlier .. the hang on the 'partial update' seems coming from gdm	21:30
yofel	sal_: do you have kubuntu-desktop installed?	21:31
sal_	yofel, i have 2.29.1-0ubuntu3 current, but not sure how to read all the package changes .. anything to do or not do with this?	21:31
sal_	no kubuntu	21:31
yofel	sal_: yes, ubuntu5 conflicts with usplash since plymouth will be used in the future	21:32
sal_	yofel, so just leave it as is for now ?	21:33
yofel	sal_: either that or remove usplash	21:34
sal_	yofel, usplash is a package(?) -- at some future point of update, this would be resolved naturally, yes?	21:35
sal_	remove usplash, then update gdm?	21:35
yofel	it should be, but I can't really give you tested advice, I have to keep gdm back since I would have to remove kubuntu-desktop too	21:37
BUGabundo	YAAYAYAYAY	21:38
BUGabundo	pidgin fixed	21:38
BUGabundo	darn place to put the font settigns	21:38
BUGabundo	on a freaking plugin	21:38
sal_	yofel, ok. thanks. i'll just let it be for now ..	21:38
sebsebseb	hi	21:39
sal_	!plymouth	21:43
BUGabundo	!test	21:46
ubottu	yes, I'm alive.	21:46
* cwillu pokes his head in		21:46
BUGabundo	ahhhh size 13 is guud	21:46
* BUGabundo hugs cwillu		21:46
BUGabundo	dude you owe me a beer	21:46
BUGabundo	;)	21:46
cwillu	-28.0C, feels like -39.5C	21:46
BUGabundo	ahaahahah	21:47
cwillu	do you mind if its frozen?	21:47
BUGabundo	+10ºC feels like 4º	21:47
* cwillu runs outside quickly to start his car		21:47
BUGabundo	cwillu why isn't your car inside, next to the fireplace?	21:48
sal_	BUGabundo, ubottu sent pm saying its a know nothing re plymouth	21:54
BUGabundo	lol	21:54
BUGabundo	so why are you asking me?	21:54
BUGabundo	do I look like a bot?	21:54
BUGabundo	I've out grown that phase	21:54
BUGabundo	:p	21:54
sal_	from my knowledge .. yup	21:54
sal_	sorry	21:54
cwillu	BUGabundo, don't have a garage, nor a fireplace	21:55
BUGabundo	cwillu kitchen oven ? :p	21:56
BUGabundo	!search plymouth	21:56
ubottu	Found:	21:56
yofel	sal_: plymouth is still very new in ubuntu, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup for now	21:56
BUGabundo	ohh yeah the startup thing we dumped	21:56
DanaG	Plymouth just plain refuses to even try working on my system.	21:56
BUGabundo	yofel: we kicked it out	21:56
DanaG	https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239	21:56
BUGabundo	tooo slow	21:56
ubottu	Freedesktop bug 22239 in plymouth general "improve console= handling" [Normal,New]	21:56
yofel	BUGabundo: no, lucid will have it after all	21:57
yofel	BUGabundo: didn't notice gdm kicking out usplash?	21:57
BUGabundo	no	21:57
BUGabundo	man I really should read the ML	21:58
BUGabundo	2k unread emails :(	21:58
sal_	i looked it up	21:58
robin0800	BUGabundo: what it is to be popular	21:58
yofel	BUGabundo: see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience	21:59
BUGabundo	robin0800: no idea.. I'm not :)	22:00
BUGabundo	not anymore at least	22:00
BUGabundo	try me 2 or 3 cycles ago	22:00
BUGabundo	and I would know more then the bot it self	22:00
BUGabundo	now I barelly keep up :(	22:01
Tscheesy	hm - no Desktop-shell whithin upgraded KNE	22:25
Tscheesy	ah plasma-netbook was not running	22:29
nhasian	hello everyone	22:30
Tscheesy	huch - what's Byobo Window Manager needed for ?	22:32
yofel	Tscheesy: if you mean byobu: profiles for screen	22:44
sebsebseb	sal_: oh you are in here as well	22:47
sebsebseb	sal_: hi?	22:48
sebsebseb	sal_: So what's this about GDM updates in Lucid?	22:50
Crashbit	!w IMHO	22:52
sebsebseb	!pm > sal_	22:52
ubottu	sal_, please see my private message	22:52
Crashbit	uish, sorry	22:52
sal_	got it. sorry	22:53
yofel	sebsebseb: the new gdm breaks usplash, so you need to remove usplash to update	22:54
sebsebseb	sal_: your new to Ubuntu?	22:54
sebsebseb	yofel: oh, but usplash is going to get replaced by Plymouth isn't it?	22:54
sebsebseb	and xsplash will get replaced by that as well?	22:55
sebsebseb	uh at all these names	22:55
yofel	sebsebseb: yes, but the situation right now ends with gdm being held back by apt	22:55
sebsebseb	what do you mean held back by apt?	22:55
bjsnider	they want the boot time held to less than 10 seconds anyway	22:55
sal_	this was giving me the 'partial upgrade' thing in update mngr	22:55
bjsnider	they want it like osx where there is hardly any boot time	22:56
sebsebseb	sal_: some things are best for a channel see, also I have only ran my alpha 1 vm briefuly, so I didn't actsauly know what you were talking about	22:56
BUGabundo	yofel: so is it safe to force the upgrade of GDM?	22:56
BUGabundo	or are depencies still tripping ?	22:56
yofel	BUGabundo: afaik yes, DanaG might now more	22:57
sal_	yofel helped get me going around it, my issue is solved for now, but curious what others are doind ..	22:57
yofel	s/now/know	22:57
sal_	sebsebseb, thanks for the irc user tip(s)	22:57
sebsebseb	yofel: sal_ thought this channel was off topic for Lucid, or something like that	22:58
yofel	sebsebseb: err... this is #ubuntu+1	22:58
sebsebseb	yofel: exactly	22:58
sebsebseb	I told them in pm that it's on topic here	22:58
yofel	well yeah, even the topic says so	22:59
sal_	lucid is apparently offtopic in the main support channel, my bad	22:59
sebsebseb	sal_: in the main support channel it is yes, but not in here	22:59
sal_	got it	22:59
sebsebseb	well I guess it's ok to suggest people stay on 8.04 for now and wait untill 10.04, depending on how that is done etc	22:59
sebsebseb	in the main one	23:00
BUGabundo	sal_: FYI this # is meant for support and discussion for +1 and +2	23:00
BUGabundo	then again, most of us in here are just users or little time devs	23:01
sebsebseb	BUGabundo: +2 as well, that would be 10.10	23:01
sebsebseb	when is that released by the way?	23:01
BUGabundo	and many many times we can really make our voices be heard in the true decisions	23:01
BUGabundo	sebsebseb: duh october 2010	23:01
sebsebseb	yeah I know	23:01
sebsebseb	,but	23:01
sebsebseb	I am wondering about the day the date	23:01
BUGabundo	ask the GOD	23:01
sebsebseb	Ubuntu seems to like releasing on a Thursday	23:02
sebsebseb	final releases, but also alpha's etc	23:02
bjsnider	BUGabundo, we can make our voices heard in which decisions?	23:02
BUGabundo	bjsnider: "can't" :(	23:02
bjsnider	i see	23:03
BUGabundo	remember all those bugs we fough and lost ?	23:03
bjsnider	which decisions did you have in mind?	23:03
DanaG	what about me?	23:03
BUGabundo	UM, OSD, boots, etc	23:03
BUGabundo	DanaG: GDM upgrde	23:03
BUGabundo	safe or foo ?	23:03
DanaG	hmm, I don't remember what was up with that.	23:03
yofel	DanaG: usplash removal	23:04
bjsnider	BUGabundo, i'll tell you a little story	23:04
sebsebseb	Thursday April 29th is 10.04, so does that mean that 10.10 comes out on Thursday 28th October?	23:04
BUGabundo	sebsebseb: not sure	23:04
BUGabundo	bjsnider: you work for the big guy, and are a agent in diskise?	23:04
DanaG	ah yeah, plymouth looks nice... when it doesn't decide not to run.	23:04
DanaG	And yes, it does actively DECIDE not to run, on my system.	23:05
DanaG	https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239	23:05
ubottu	Freedesktop bug 22239 in plymouth general "improve console= handling" [Normal,New]	23:05
bjsnider	somebody asked me to package kaffeine0.8.8 because kaffeine pre1 in karmic was useless. i went into kubuntu-devel channel and asked who made the decision to package pre1 over 0.8.8, which was more stable, and they said it was made because no users objected	23:05
sebsebseb	DanaG: Mandriva 2010's Plymouth is rather nice indeed, I wonder what 10.04's will be like. my boot up was a bit uh last time I was in my vm about two days or whatever for alpha 1	23:05
DanaG	hmm, try setting default theme to spinfinity.	23:05
sebsebseb	at least that xplash rubbish will be replaced :) well xplash is ok	23:06
DanaG	If we had a spinner instead of an infinity-sign, it'd be nice.	23:06
sebsebseb	just I wonder about if it's possible to get the boot up text mode as well with xplash hmm	23:06
sal_	BUGabundo, am aware of that +1. i think just some confusion .. switching channels	23:06
* sebsebseb really likes having a text boot, but wants a picture of some sort there as well		23:07
BUGabundo	bjsnider: so you mean no one complaint	23:07
BUGabundo	either no one is using the proper channels	23:08
BUGabundo	or no one is listenign to users	23:08
sebsebseb	Mandriva's is good, press esc to get the text mode, and if don't do that, have the graphical boot	23:08
bjsnider	BUGabundo, right, no users complained that pre-1 was missing the dvb-s2 features, or supposedly it would have been dropped from the karmic cycle	23:08
BUGabundo	bjsnider: up to one year ago that was MY task	23:08
BUGabundo	to be in between devs and users	23:08
BUGabundo	to keep up on both sides, and mediate intel	23:09
bjsnider	well, i wonder why they're coming to me about this whent hey should be sending in bugs complaining	23:09
BUGabundo	but no more time for it unfortunatelly	23:09
bjsnider	i mean i don't use kaffeine!	23:09
BUGabundo	to keep up woth several MLs, wiki pages, blogs, IRC #s	23:09
bjsnider	this is what one of the users told me in response to being asked why he didn't speak up about the kaffeine issue:	23:11
BUGabundo	so now I'm counting on YOU guys to take my roll in the community	23:11
bjsnider	"Unfortunately, I missed the testing of kaffeine; probably also because I am already trying to have other points of Ubuntu improved."	23:11
BUGabundo	eheh	23:11
BUGabundo	devel spin cycle	23:11
BUGabundo	one of the reasons I run +1 since so early is to have everything I use running on stable	23:12
BUGabundo	not that ill be running stable for long :)	23:12
bjsnider	many users don't seem to understand how to get directly in touch with the ubuntu devs to stop them from going ahead with bad decisions	23:12
BUGabundo	but it still manages to work well up to FF/A6 and then break before beta and not get fixed :(	23:12
BUGabundo	bjsnider: well from my POV even if they knew how, and actually did	23:13
yofel	bjsnider: someone even created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperCommunication for that	23:13
BUGabundo	many of those times they wouldn't be listened to	23:13
BUGabundo	:(	23:13
bjsnider	have you said that in the motu channel?	23:13
BUGabundo	I remember when I shared my ideas on -devel/devel-discuss MLs	23:13
BUGabundo	most of the times I was just pushed back :(	23:13
bjsnider	brushed off?	23:14
BUGabundo	nvm	23:14
BUGabundo	I'm tired of it	23:14
BUGabundo	I became that kind of super user that goes get a workaround	23:15
BUGabundo	instead of actually working to fix a prob	23:15
BUGabundo	:\\	23:15
BUGabundo	shame on me	23:15
BUGabundo	be it gets really tired after a point	23:15
BUGabundo	running, testing, supporting, user formation, public information, for over 3 years tears a person apart	23:16
bjsnider	yes but that's your place in this	23:18
bjsnider	you've chosent hat over developing or just sitting back and using	23:18
BUGabundo	its my personality fault	23:19
BUGabundo	I can't leave a person without help, if I can help	23:19
bjsnider	the kubuntu-devel guys also told me that they did not have enough time to fully test the software, which raises questions about the rest of the kubuntu distro	23:20
BUGabundo	so I try to know all I can on a subject I'm intereted so I can help	23:20
BUGabundo	plus I can so easilly find bugs in anything I touch , so I tend to help test and file bugs and suggestions on any new project I pick up, until I get bothered or it works as I need it too	23:20
yofel	bjsnider: well, they invented the timelord project to help with the poor q/a issue	23:21
DanaG	Too bad Ubuntu doesn't use fbcondecor.	23:21
bjsnider	i don't know what that is	23:21
yofel	google?	23:22
BUGabundo	me neiehte	23:22
DanaG	it used to be called fbsplash.	23:22
DanaG	Fancy console backgrounds, that's what.	23:22
BUGabundo	http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord	23:22
yofel	lemme see... we have 122 people in #ubuntu-bugs and... 15 in #kubuntu-bugs	23:23
BUGabundo	ehe	23:24
yofel	yep, not enough to triage all kubuntu bugs at LP	23:24
bjsnider	what does that tell you	23:24
BUGabundo	yofel: and k-devel vs u-devel	23:24
yofel	that too	23:24
bjsnider	at one point it looked to me that there as only one guy, riddel of course, packaging anything for kde, but that was a couple years ago	23:25
yofel	yeah, there are a lot more now, or we probably wouldn't have seen kde4.4 for alpha1	23:26
bjsnider	have they held on to riddell?	23:26
bjsnider	or is he gone?	23:26
yofel	he's still there afaik	23:29
bjsnider	well, continuity over the years is good	23:33
=== BUGabundo1 is now known as BUGabundo
* cwillu_at_work huggles BUGabundo		23:56
cwillu_at_work	doesn't help that there isn't a good list of features that users care about (and that such a thing is probably impossible to create in the first place)	23:56
* cwillu_at_work thinks		23:58
BUGabundo	cwillu at work?	23:58
BUGabundo	car didn't have much probs?	23:58
cwillu_at_work	is at work	23:58
BUGabundo	can't imagine what is driving with those temparatures	23:58
cwillu_at_work	nah, never had issues starting it as long as the battery is good, but it still doesn't like driving cold	23:58
BUGabundo	colder I've ever driven was like -2ºC	23:58
cwillu_at_work	not very slippery when it gets uber cold	23:58
cwillu_at_work	yep, that's about as bad as it gets for slippery, ice gets less slippery as it gets colder	23:59
cwillu_at_work	ends up a little worse than driving in fresh rain	23:59

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