[00:00] doctormo: need a favor [00:00] cprofitt: yes, and people interested in education [00:00] doctormo: need a template folder in there for new classes. Preferably as a new folder. Can you? [00:01] doctormo: just the basic folders and one file of instructions. If you want me to make it, can do [00:01] pleia2: what do you think of having a new forum area added? [00:02] cprofitt: for educators or this project? [00:02] for educators [00:02] forums aren't really my forte [00:02] so I'm not sure :) [00:03] k [00:03] I think it hurts that there is not one. [00:05] To me it fits with your feeling on having the Ubuntu Women's forum area [00:05] do you know the process to have a new area created pleia2 ? [00:07] cprofitt: not a clue, and they were cutting back on the number of forums (they actually shut down UW until I objected) [00:07] ah... well then it may be tough to get one. [00:08] By the way doctormo and pleia2 I want to publicly acknowledge what a great conribution you have both made to UCLP [00:08] might talk to bodhi though, since he's an admin and all :) [00:08] it was fantastic tohave you both go to UDS and represent [00:08] thanks cprofitt! [00:08] and the work on asciidoc has been fantastic [00:08] it shames me that my efforts have not been up to that measure. [00:09] nigel_nb: Aye, we should chat about what you mean, I'm not sure. [00:09] Thanks cprofitt, very kind of you to say, but I've been focusing a lot of my time on education this year, perhaps next I will be forced to get a real job and won't have as much time. [00:10] doctormo: oh no, not a real job! [00:10] :) [00:10] Although various people are pushing me to go into education propperly. [00:11] Real jobs are a good way of staying alive... that is for sure. [00:11] doctormo: as in becoming a teacher? [00:11] cprofitt: Of some description, not sure what level of students, but people have mooted that I might be good at it. [00:12] In the US that involves getting a BA - student teaching - then a masters [00:12] its a tough road [00:12] easier when you are not employed or married though I suspect [00:12] i am married [00:12] I would have taken too big a cut in pay to do it... [00:13] well... then it becomes a bit more difficult -- kids? [00:13] sorry that I did not know you were married doctormo [00:13] Although I suspect that traditional (i.e. kids) teaching might not be possible, as I couldn't teach windows. [00:13] you have not mentioned that -- at least not that I recall. [00:13] * pleia2 gets dragged off again [00:13] doctormo: will you be around tomorrow morning? [00:13] doctormo: there are some schools that use FLOSS [00:13] cprofitt: Did I not send you a picture of my wife in corsett? [00:14] doctormo: you sent me a picture of a lady in a corsett... not sure you specified wife [00:14] pleia2: morning for US EST, should be. [00:14] doctormo: ok, cool [00:14] what time pleia2 ? [00:14] cprofitt: I will be around all morning est [00:14] -- did you need me on? [00:14] just wanted to ask some questions about our format and scripts [00:15] nigel and I went over a bunch this morning, was way helpful [00:15] * pleia2 phone & [00:25] So... pleia2, cprofitt, BiosElement(not here) and nigel_nb: you might want to throttle me, but I want to modify things slightly in the structure. Thinking over about what's been said, I think it might be worth putting each of the sections into a single file, instead of having a directory for each one. [00:26] oh no! [00:26] doctormo: sounds like what bioselement and I discussed the other night [00:26] cprofitt: It could be, but if it's what BiosElement already has written out, then it might not be. [00:27] doctormo: My personal opinion, do what you have to do and make it final soon. [00:27] no... I do not think it was what he had written out... [00:27] I think it might be best to stick with what we have for now though [00:27] It depends on what perspective is put on the single file, the idea is to simply take our 4 files in the directory and concat them, leaving you with still a number of modular sections. [00:28] we need to stop changing the structure until we have time to truly test it [00:28] cprofitt: That's true, but in this case it's changing it because of us trying it out. [00:28] ah -- what are you trying to compile your current content too? [00:29] link to the source asciidoc? [00:29] doctormo: We need a deadline when everything with the format will be done, decided, and finalized. [00:30] nigel_nb: we do not need to finalize it... [00:30] nigel_nb: Well, decided and finalised are further off that we think. That takes a vote I think. [00:30] but we need to have a deadline for an Alpha that is functional [00:30] cprofitt: my course is heavily dependent on the structure [00:30] then we can use it to make PDF courses and Moodle courses and adjust from there [00:30] cprofitt: when the structure changes, I have to modify the course accordingly [00:30] But if I said that having all the scripts in place to render docbooks, pdfs, htmls should be in place by morning time. This small change included. [00:31] nigel_nb: I agree... your course is about the 'structure' correct? [00:31] cprofitt: its about how to contribute [00:31] * cprofitt nods to nigel_nb [00:31] cprofitt: I not only have to change the structure of my course, I have to change my course accordingly too, so it would be nice if we finalized it [00:31] I dont mind these changes too much really [00:32] but I want something finalized so that we can pace up course creation [00:32] nigel_nb: How long are you online for this evening? [00:32] nigel_nb: until we utilize the first Alpha I am not sure we can finalize though [00:32] doctormo: I'm off in an hour [00:32] cprofitt: :( [00:32] we have to do at least one course end to end in all formats to see if we need adjustments [00:33] while we can all hope none are needed... [00:33] we can not truly say 'done' 'final' until we have put it to use [00:33] cprofitt: by done I mean, ready for teaching others [00:33] I agree [00:34] nigel_nb: OK, lets make sure this works in the next hour before you go. [00:34] cprofitt: doctormo's new scripts are almost on the mark, if everything works out, I can get my course ready soon [00:34] k [00:34] cprofitt: now I just need to give a brush of the format which I'm glad I haven't started since we're tinkering with it now ;) [00:34] still need to test the transition to Moodle though [00:35] cprofitt: that needs a dedicated set of people actually. Because the quiz and stuff is going to be difficult [00:37] nigel_nb: well... the project needs to make sure that there is a working process [00:37] regardless of who does what parts [00:37] cprofitt: yep :) [00:38] all I am leaving the door open too is that if changing the process slightly makes translation to / from Moodle eaier [00:38] that will need to be considered [00:41] would you agree with that doctormo pleia2 ? [00:45] cprofitt: I would [00:46] cool :-) [00:47] nigel_nb: Pushed a new banch, take a look at it's changes and tell me frankly what you think. [00:47] doctormo: a new branch or updated trunk? [00:48] nigel_nb: nice picture by the way [00:48] cprofitt: hehe, the one on your site? [00:48] cprofitt: that was my testing of cheese ;) [00:48] yeah -- that is your; right? [00:49] nigel_nb: updated trunk [00:49] cprofitt: thats me :) [00:49] doctormo: merging [00:50] Cool... [00:52] nigel_nb: I am happy to have 12 members to that site in under 24 hours [00:52] cprofitt: we're a helpful crowd :) [00:53] cprofitt: after joining bug squad I forgot how many sites (upstream bug trackers, etc) I've signed up and I get around 100 mails every 3 days... [00:53] I think you, John and I are the only people that are not educators [00:54] cprofitt: I would have joined, but the registration process went and died. [00:55] lol [00:55] doctormo: are you running Windows? [00:55] * cprofitt runs and hides [00:55] doctormo: not bad, need some time learning the new one though [00:56] cprofitt: Besmitched. [00:56] * cprofitt flops on the floor like a trout out of water [00:57] nigel_nb: It's simply a concatination of each of the asciidoc files with <== between each section, then the build script I'm about to commit, splits it out and puts it back into the directories we currently have. [00:57] It's simply a way to move the directories to build only processes. [00:57] doctormo: okay, once its ready, let me know so I can get my last section ready :) [00:58] Sart getting it ready for the test :-) [01:04] im off then guys [01:04] sunday, time to get ready fer church :) [01:06] 'night nigel_nb [01:09] nigel_nb: Pushing rev18 with updated and tested scripts. [01:15] my first blod post to planet just went up [01:16] FFEMTcJ: What's a blod post? :-D [01:16] Chris Johnston? [01:17] yup [01:17] blog.. whatever [01:17] lol [01:17] nigel_nb: what is your wave account? [01:24] nigel_nb: I did not get that from you... [01:24] I dropped... sorry [01:24] want to add you to my wave [01:25] cprofitt: he didnt answer [01:25] k [01:25] was not sure... [01:28] id give you mine, but it wouldnt help :-P [01:28] FFEMTcJ: true... [01:29] unless you too join the Ubuntu Educators group... and want to be part of that wave [01:30] I was actually gonna ask you about that.. I'm a little confused.. Its a group for teachers/instructors who use ubuntu? [01:31] it is a group for educators - teachers / edu administrators / edu support staff [01:31] who use Ubuntu and/or FLOSS [01:31] * FFEMTcJ doesnt fit any of that... [01:32] that was the angle that I originally approached UCLP when Vantrax and I were formulating creating UCLP [01:32] ic [01:33] though more from the standpoint of creating Moodle courses that educators could use [01:33] to aide their transition to Ubuntu and FLOSS [01:33] the same courses would likely be usable by business unless they got curriculum specific [01:34] gotcha [01:40] pleia2: you arent around are you? [01:40] cprofitt: I'd actually be interested in that. my mum's a teacher and while where she teaches doesn't use Ubuntu (they're a MacOS school), I think they use moodle [01:41] Cool... what the link Pendulum [01:41] part of the transition process would likely be staying with OS X or Windows and using FLOSS [01:41] I meant do you want the link? [01:41] yes, please :) [01:41] http://ubuntuedu.ning.com/ [01:42] let her and her fellow teacher know as well. [01:42] Pendulum: we have 10 instructors, 9 hours and then the intro hour [01:42] FFEMTcJ: are we nailing down the schedule? [01:42] cprofitt: id like to [01:42] yeah, I don't know that the school would ever switch (it's a prep school and students are actually required to own mac laptops), I know the current tech guy does OSS stuff and such [01:42] FFEMTcJ: nice :) [01:43] *but I know... [01:44] Here is my thought: [01:44] Switching * install at 1300 [01:44] 1400 equiv programs [01:44] Pendulum: required to own a mac? [01:44] ouch... [01:45] 1500 finding help [01:45] 1600 command line basics [01:45] 1700 restricted drivers [01:46] there is still a pgp course.. but other than that people didnt put what they wanna teach [01:46] what is the URL to our page again [01:46] for the Ubuntu day stuff... [01:47] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam [01:47] danke [01:47] I see we added some later times [01:47] cprofitt: http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/story.php?itemID=11690 is the school [01:48] if that is possible I would be happy to move my section later if it was better. [01:48] I am GMT-5 [01:48] and can do anything up until 04:00 UTC [01:48] we stop at 2200 utc [01:49] One sec, I'm going to edit the wiki so all the times are UTC so I can look at it and actually parse it better ;) [01:49] k [01:49] someone added time up until 03:00 UTC [01:49] cprofitt: I was thinking to do the courses if possible in an order that makes sense.. so install would be first.. and then eqiv programs, would be shortly there after [01:49] curious as to why we would end at 22:00UTC [01:50] thats 10 hours [01:50] 12-22 [01:50] FFEMTcJ: yeah... only issue is at GMT-5 I can not really do things that early [01:51] yes, but 10 hours across a globe spanning 24 hours [01:51] I understand that.. [01:51] 22:00 UTC = 17:00 UTC-5 (EDT) or 13:00 UTC-8... etc [01:51] right [01:51] so if you have instructors willing to go later -- why not? [01:52] 12:00 UTC would be very early for a person in California. [01:52] right [01:53] btw, do we know who is doing the intro? [01:53] or is it going to be a collective thing from those of us organizing? [01:53] Pendulum: I'm thinking collective [01:53] pleia2: said she had some material for it.. but i was kindof thinkging collective [01:55] Pendulum: If Apple was a better 'corporate partner' with schools I may not choke on the idea of paying 2x the cost of their laptops [01:55] cprofitt: going by tat thought tho (that 12utc is early for CA, then the course at 12 should be repeated at 22 [01:55] FFEMTcJ: I see one problem with doing command line basics when you have it scheduled, which is that cprofitt signed up for that one and he's not available until later ;) [01:55] err.. not CL basics, equivalent programbs [01:55] *programs [01:56] FFEMTcJ: if we had enough instructors and could have multiple IRC rooms that would be a grand idea [01:56] ya.. we are talking about that [01:56] Pendulum: ^ [01:56] I suspect some of the bits of getting extra instructors, etc. may be a "when we do this again" thing [01:56] its one of the things that plague a synchronous presentation of material on a global scale [01:57] Pendulum: +1 [01:57] we have to build.. [01:57] cprofitt: thats what logs are for [01:57] the global time issue is what I like Moodle for... it allows Asynchronous courses [01:57] UOW/UDS isnt 24 hours.. [01:57] right [01:57] oh, I think it'd be great if eventually it worked so we could do essentially a 24hr thing at some point [01:57] how many people attending UDS do so remotely? [01:58] cprofitt: both FFEMTcJ and I did :) [01:58] I did too... [01:58] I would say a fair amount.. I dont know a number tho [01:58] but all the chans seemed quite active [01:58] because I think a flaw in UOW is that it only works for certain time zones [01:58] and I would say remote attendance of live events are a bit different than all on-line events. [01:58] Pendulum: yep [01:58] and new users are less likely to go want to read logs [01:59] still having global time issues as an issue is a good thing [01:59] Pendulum: the IMHO, UOW, there arent enough instructors to make it work for everywhere [01:59] UOW = ? [01:59] Ubuntu Open Week [01:59] ah... [01:59] they did extend UOW the time I did it... [01:59] but only by an hour I think [02:00] it would be great to have audio and screen casts (recorded) for some of the stuff... [02:00] new users could benefit a bit more from those than IRC logs... [02:01] due to that format keeping their interest a bit better... and providing some visuals. [02:01] yeah [02:01] but IRC logs are still useful. [02:01] sounds like a beginner team project [02:01] *nods* [02:01] FFEMTcJ: very well could be. [02:01] though I am on the Security Team now... not EDU Focus group [02:02] * FFEMTcJ doesnt know how to do screencasts/etc [02:02] cprofitt: my wave id is nigelbabu@googlewave.com [02:02] you can join two FGs [02:02] saj0577 is the man to contact for that. [02:02] ;-) [02:02] I think saj is gonna get kicked from his spot [02:02] cprofitt: sorry I replied late, I was getting ready [02:02] FFEMTcJ: kicked? [02:02] nigel_nb: no problem [02:02] removed.. [02:03] FFEMTcJ: I have not seen him on, so he may be removed... or may step down. [02:03] Sounds from what ive heard (looks from what ive seen?) like he is mia [02:03] I am sure bodhi will make the right call. [02:03] I guess kicked was harsh [02:03] I should probably talk to bodhi about it... [02:03] we need someone in that slot. [02:03] I need to speak to bodhi [02:03] guys (and gals), later, probably 2morrow [02:03] night nigel_nb [02:04] I stepped down and handed it to Vantrax -- who hnaded it to saj [02:04] nigh nigel_nb [02:04] cprofitt: I wish I had the time to commit to something like that, however I know I don't for the next year [02:04] FFEMTcJ: I understand... [02:04] it is not an easy thing to make time for... [02:04] I wont be able to participate as much as I do now. [02:04] I gave up computer gaming to do all the FOSS stuff I do [02:05] I talked to one of my co-workers who is just completing the program I start in january.. he said it was the hardest year of his life [02:05] I am the lead contact for Lugor, President of the NY State LoCo, BT Council Member, BT Security FG lead, Fedora Ambassador... [02:05] FFEMTcJ: going for EMT-P? [02:05] I actually give several presentations a year too. [02:05] already p [02:05] RN [02:05] ah [02:05] ooh... fun :) [02:05] RN... nice FFEMTcJ [02:05] Its a 1 year RN program tho.. vs the normal 2 [02:06] Good luck with that. [02:06] I wish the wife would let me get a new laptop thats smaller [02:06] yeah, I've heard of those programs (not known anyone whose done one), I can see how it'd kick you hard [02:06] ty cprofitt [02:06] good luck :) [02:06] FFEMTcJ: they are not too expensive... [02:06] what size lappy do you have now? [02:07] Pendulum: with my schedule of working every third day, and the RN schedule of clinicals tuesdays, labs thursdays, tests every other friday.. clinicals start an hour before i get off work, labs start 30 minutes after i get off work.. [02:07] I have a lot of schedule issues [02:07] cprofitt: 17 wide [02:07] i love it, but it isnt portable [02:08] FFEMTcJ: oof. [02:08] enought [02:08] no, not at all... [02:08] would she let you get a Netbook for portability and keep the 17 for regular use? [02:08] use Ubuntu One to synch files? [02:08] basically... im gonna have to pay people to work for me to make school work.. [02:09] cprofitt: no.. I'm gonna take prolly a 10k $$ hit next year atleast, just in lost wages.. plus having to pay people to cover my shifts [02:09] ouch... that hurts [02:09] plus shes having a 7k surgery in jan [02:09] that would kill me [02:09] the day school starts [02:09] I do not have any space for that kind of expense in my budget [02:09] I dont either [02:10] the first semester of school is 1200 for tuition, 800 for books [02:10] so 2k right there [02:10] we just have no breathing room [02:10] right now [02:10] I can understand... [02:10] I have a +/- $20 a month budget right now [02:11] we are re-financing the house to get some more breathing room [02:11] 1 day of overtime for me is $610.. I wish I could talk her into letting me work one day, and spending that $ on a computer.. but shed just say we need that money somewhere elese [02:12] my house is already 5.75. it aint gonna get better enough to make it worth it for me [02:12] the rates today near me were 4.88 on 30yr and 4.60 on 20yr [02:12] I am locked in at 5.0 though [02:12] I was at 6.75 [02:13] she just started a gig in the evenings thats $75/hr for her.. but its not steady enough to count on [02:13] thats still pretty good [02:13] yeah... a 1.75 drop will help... $150/month [02:13] yup [02:15] http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/apple-tablet/ [02:15] uggh,, I wish someone would put the new thunderbird on a ppa [02:15] think that is a photoshop or real? [02:15] i hope photoshop [02:17] bbiab.. need to call wife and tell her g'nite [02:18] k [02:21] whatever it is, it's not looking to me like something apple would put out (whether that [02:21] *that's that it's real and unfinished or a photoshop job) [02:22] yeah... [02:22] I would think they would include a keyboard... [02:22] though maybe not [02:22] possibly a keyboard, certainly not that many icons on a screen (too confusing), etc. [02:22] away [02:22] back [02:22] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA [02:22] that is a very good video to show Apple fans [02:23] anyone know how to get me out of an ATT cell contract? [02:23] heh [02:23] most apple fans I know have seen it :) [02:24] yeah... [02:24] you guys seen the Supervillian cartoon? [02:24] http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54 [02:35] to be honest... I used Vista print to make some generic cards for my being a FOSS advocate [02:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090604?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=IMG_0347.JPG [02:37] that was a good event though... [02:37] we have been invited back and asked to do at least two additional presentations. [02:48] whois [02:48] uggh [02:48] g'nite all [02:50] g'night FFEMTcJ === jfluhmann_ is now known as jfluhmann [10:19] hi [15:24] pleia2: hello [15:25] nigel_nb: Also if your about [15:33] hey doc [15:34] Hey FFEMTcJ [15:35] how goes? [15:38] well, happy I got all the builder scrpts fixed [15:40] cool [16:25] doctormo: great to know :) [16:26] nigel_nb: Great, let me know that your book compiles correctly and I'll start on importing the ubuntu docs team's rendering scripts. [16:26] hey [16:26] doctormo: no time to check rite nw :( [16:27] oh, hey pleia2 [16:33] doctormo: u'll be around at 2 am ur time? [16:33] nigel_nb: Are you sure of my time? I'm at GMT currently. [16:33] i'm sure [16:33] pleia2: I needed to pass changes by you [16:34] ok [16:34] pleia2: now its individual files instead of folders [16:34] each section is one file [16:34] hooray for less cding [16:35] yea, less messy [16:35] which branch should I look at to see how this looks? [16:37] ah, commandline-basics has it [16:39] pleia2: Yes, so basically what I did was, I moved the mess into the scripts so the script splits it out into seperate files for building. [16:40] pleia2: But writers shouldn't see them. [16:41] okie [16:42] pleia2: this is what bioselement and I discussed a few days back -- it makes much more sense to me with the limited knowledge I have of asciidoc [16:42] so, can we walk through a workflow for this? [16:42] * pleia2 nods [16:42] so, I have a course I want to write, first I set up bzr and stuff [16:42] I think if a course name, know the proper section [16:42] then I run the template structure script thingy somewhere? [16:44] yea, sorta [16:44] pleia2: So you write each of these files out, then you run ./builder/build.sh [section-name] [class-name] [16:44] each of what files? [16:45] 01, 02, [16:45] hmm [16:46] pleia2: will be up around at 8 to 9 PM (your time)? [16:46] I'll test it with my class then [16:46] probably [16:47] okay :) [16:47] then you guys need to vote on this and I can finish my lesson off [16:47] I am afraid I still don't understand though [16:48] * pleia2 reads build.sh [16:48] doctormo: if someone wants to pull 'sections' from course A, B, and C to make a new course... how will that work in your current system? [16:48] pleia2: try [16:48] pleia2: try running build on command line basics [16:49] cprofitt: probably, copy it into a new folder and run the build scripts [16:49] I am trying to figure out how we get the templates in place, not building yet [16:49] cprofitt: It's a matter of recombining them, make some symbolic links and rebuild. [16:49] pleia2: The script's templates or the human's templates? [16:50] doctormo: human [16:50] whatever makes the presentations directory, and the basic structure that we then edit [16:50]