[19:02] <stochastic> Hi all, who is here for the Ubuntu Studio developer's meeting?
[19:02] <dtchen> o/
[19:02] <stochastic> hi Cory
[19:02] <ckontros> yo
[19:03] <stochastic> so the meeting agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2009Dec13  please review and we'll get started shortly
[19:05] <stochastic> so far is it just Cory, Daniel, and Me?
[19:06] <dtchen> looks like it
[19:06] <stochastic> Okay well I guess we can get going.
[19:06]  * stochastic is a little disappointed with the turnout, but anyways
[19:06] <stochastic> Any amendments to the agenda?
[19:07] <stochastic> I don't have any.
[19:07] <ckontros> nope
[19:08] <stochastic> okay, next topic, RT Kernel
[19:09] <stochastic> I recall a message on the ML about this.  Cory, what's the current state?
[19:10] <ckontros> stochastic: abogani should have more info but our kernel (-rt) should be almost as, (if not totally) up to date as Ubuntu for Lucid.
[19:11] <stochastic> ckontros, is that a goal, or something that looks like it's going to happen?
[19:11] <ckontros> From what Alessio says it's going to happen. Testing will be the key.
[19:12] <stochastic> Excellent.
[19:12] <stochastic> Is there anything else to say on the RT Kernel at this point?
[19:12]  * ckontros thinks for a sec.
[19:13] <ckontros> Nope
[19:13] <stochastic> okay, Dual arch Disks
[19:13] <stochastic> I think we can consider this poll: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1327714 closed now?
[19:13] <ckontros> From the poll on the forums, people could take it or leave it.
[19:14] <ckontros> Yes. I was thinking close it.
[19:14] <stochastic> I think one of the best suggestions was a doubled sided DVD for commercial purposes (i.e. 32 bit on one side, 64 on the other)
[19:14] <ckontros> So as there's no big push, I say we drop it.
[19:14] <ckontros> Yes. While it is more costly, it might be an option.
[19:15] <stochastic> I think a dual-arch disk has no substantial advantage, but could hinder many users.
[19:15] <stochastic> I say we drop it.
[19:15] <stochastic> Anyone else want to chime in?
[19:17] <stochastic> Okay.
[19:17] <dtchen> sorry, attempting (poorly) to multitask
[19:17] <dtchen> I agree that multiarch disks aren't worthwhile
[19:17] <dtchen> occam's razor and all
[19:18] <ScottL_> 'ello all
[19:18] <stochastic> Hi Scott
[19:18] <dtchen> 'lo
[19:18] <stochastic> So on we move to Ubuntu Studio Controls
[19:19] <stochastic> does anyone have a willingness to take this software on?
[19:19] <ScottL_> rlameiro had been workign with luis I thought
[19:19] <ScottL_> on US controls that it
[19:19] <ckontros> As did I.
[19:20] <ScottL_> s/it/is
[19:20] <stochastic> Have they actually started working?
[19:21] <stochastic> neither of them are here right now to talk about it, should we drop the subject from the agenda?
[19:21] <ScottL_> my understanding is rlamerio was looking at the code and asking about gtk2 vs something else
[19:21] <stochastic> yes, rlamerio was interested in using wxwidgets
[19:21] <ScottL_> but nothing concrete had been started as far as I know
[19:22]  * ckontros looks at LP for a new branch.
[19:22] <stochastic> okay, well we need to see some changes to that software VERY soon.
[19:22] <ckontros> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls
[19:22] <ckontros> Nothing yet
[19:23] <stochastic> Let's continue to encourage rlameiro on this, and see how far he gets.
[19:24] <stochastic> Can we move onto Jack in Main?
[19:24] <ScottL_> sure
[19:24] <ckontros> What's the official word on this? dtchen?
[19:24] <dtchen> I checked with ScottK in #ubuntu-devel about this issue about a half hour ago, and here's the gist:
[19:25] <dtchen> libffado will be promoted into main automatically once something build-deps on it, which in this case, looks like jack-audio-connection-kit
[19:25] <dtchen> so -- there are two remaining work items:
[19:25] <dtchen> 1) drop libfreebob0-dev from j-a-c-k's build-deps
[19:26] <dtchen> 2) write an MIR for j-a-c-k
[19:26] <dtchen> (1) is based on feedback from stochastic and TheMuso
[19:26] <ScottL_> number is almost done but needs a little bit of help from more knowldgable people
[19:26] <ScottL_> crap  number 2
[19:26] <ScottL_> sorry for the pun
[19:27] <dtchen> I'll take the action to help with (2); what're the status and bug report number?
[19:27] <stochastic> ScottL_, do you have a link to that MIR?
[19:27] <ScottL_> yes, just a sec
[19:27] <ScottL_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportJACK
[19:27] <ScottL_> dtchen, I've filled out what I knew at the time and just need some touch ups and blanks filled it
[19:27] <ScottL_> s/it/in
[19:28] <stochastic> I was under the impression that the messed up diff.gz file of libffado was also a blocking factor
[19:28] <stochastic> i.e. many direct source changes in the diff.gz
[19:28] <ScottL_> what was messed up about it btw?
[19:29] <stochastic> I was talking with the packagers of libffado in debian, and they're ready to get the diff.gz mess sorted out, but they were just waiting on a new version of ffado to be released
[19:30] <stochastic> I'll mention that it may take too long, and request that they push a clean version through as soon as possible.
[19:30] <ckontros> +1
[19:30] <stochastic> dtchen, as for number 1), should that just get a debdiff attached to the MIR bug report?
[19:31] <ScottL_> the website doesn't mention when libffado should release the official version 2 but they are on the last beta version
[19:31] <stochastic> Oh, we also need to drop libcelt from jack's build-deps
[19:31] <ScottL_> yes, yes
[19:31] <stochastic> or has that been done?
[19:31] <ScottL_> maybe luke did it?
[19:32] <dtchen> no, libcelt-dev and libfreebob0-dev are still present as build-deps
[19:32] <dtchen> I'll take the action to remove those and upload to lucid
[19:32] <stochastic> Thanks.
[19:32] <ScottK> dtchen: I slight correction, it's not quite "promoted into main automatically".  It's "shows up on component mismatches and an archive-admin promotes it."
[19:33] <ScottK> I/A
[19:33] <dtchen> ScottK: true enough
[19:33] <ScottK> Just to be clear for everyone else.
[19:33] <stochastic> Anything further on the Jack into main front?
[19:34]  * ScottL_ knows there is a good joke somewhere in the ScottK/ScottL names
[19:34] <dtchen> the clarification point is whether any additional work needs to be done on the MIR template or bug report for libffado
[19:34] <ScottL_> yes, some additional work needs to be done on the JACK MIR
[19:35] <ScottL_> not much, the bulk of the menial stuff is done, just some technical points
[19:35] <dtchen> ScottL_: right, j-a-c-k is the work item (not libffado -- which is what I was attempting to say (: )
[19:36] <stochastic> Next agenda topic?
[19:37] <stochastic> Live video manipulation in Lucid
[19:37] <stochastic> currently we ship with no live video manipulation tools and there are a number in the repos for us
[19:37]  * stochastic was hoping Luis would be here to talk on this
[19:37] <ckontros> Does luisbg think Freemix is ready?
[19:38] <ckontros> He seems to be missing. :(
[19:39] <ckontros> Lets move on and settle this on the ML
[19:39] <stochastic> I notice the last commit to freemix's trunk on launchpad was in April
[19:39] <stochastic> okay
[19:40] <stochastic> Next item: Communication with the Testing team
[19:40] <ckontros> Can we have a link the LP page for this team?
[19:40] <ScottL_> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-testers
[19:41] <stochastic> the Ubuntu Studio Dev team is a member, but it's not signed up to the mailing list
[19:42] <ckontros> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-testers
[19:42] <stochastic> We've had a number of people sign up, some sounded like they were very keen on testing, but the conversation on the mailing list just hasn't begun in any substantial form.
[19:43] <ckontros> Yes. Mostly looks to be bug-mail.
[19:43] <ckontros> stochastic: You'll need to keep/start the momentum there.
[19:43] <stochastic> Should I unsubscribe the team from the bug mail to encourage more conversation?
[19:44] <ckontros> Well, that's up to you and the team there. It's its own little community. :)
[19:44] <ckontros> Post the question. Along with others.
[19:44] <stochastic> ScottL_, can you chime in on the conversation every now and then on that list?
[19:45] <ScottL_> certainly stochastic
[19:45] <stochastic> In general, we as developers need to communicate what changes we're making in Lucid so that the testers know where to look for bugs.
[19:46] <ckontros> That really comes down to developing a proper testing procedure.
[19:46] <ckontros> (besides simple installer testing)
[19:47] <stochastic> yes, well that's something the team (testers) needs to sort out very soon
[19:47] <ScottL_> stochastic, I can make a quick write up about some proposed test cases (more than simple installer) and send it to the list
[19:47] <stochastic> ScottL_ excellent
[19:47] <ScottL_> right
[19:48] <stochastic> Anything else on the testing team?
[19:49] <stochastic> okay, let's move on to: Training an Art manager for Luicd+N
[19:49] <ckontros> This has got little to no response. I sent out 'bout 6 emails.
[19:50] <stochastic> eek, thats no good.
[19:50] <ckontros> 2 responded but haven't replied to my further replies.
[19:50] <ckontros> Yeah. I'll push more on the art list this week.
[19:51] <ScottL_> if ckontros will definitively not be available for art in the future and we got six responses we might truly consider new art overy LTS
[19:51] <stochastic> in general, how are the art plans coming for Lucid, is the wallpaper contest getting any submissions?
[19:51] <ScottL_> s/overy/every
[19:51] <ckontros> In the meantime, I'm tinkering with some ideas here and dashua might be able to do a gtk theme for us.
[19:52] <ckontros> stochastic: None. I'll push again this week.
[19:52]  * stochastic has been meaning to blog about it
[19:52] <ckontros> I hope to have something for Alpha3.
[19:52]  * stochastic ponders what his submission might be...
[19:53] <ckontros> Plymouth should now be in the repos and Ill be testing that out this week.
[19:54] <ckontros> Moving on?
[19:54] <stochastic> okay.
[19:54] <stochastic> Cinepaint repackaging and adding to the video meta.
[19:54] <ckontros> Last I knew ScottL was tinkering with this.
[19:54] <ScottL_> i've been looking to Cinepaint and manage to build it in my ppa (i think)
[19:55] <ScottL_> but it really could use Oyranos and Elektra also, which are not in the repos
[19:55] <stochastic> ScottL_, what is your PPA'a link?
[19:55] <ckontros> ScottL_: What do Oyranos and Elektra do?
[19:55] <ScottL_> http://www.oyranos.org/#about     and http://sourceforge.net/projects/elektra/
[19:56] <ScottL_> oyranos is a color management system (CMS - confusing, innit) and elektra is some sort of system registry
[19:56] <ckontros> Ahh... Well, you wanna try to get them done also?
[19:57] <ScottL_> sorry, apparently i didn't get cinepaint into my ppa, but i believe i did get it to build locally using pbuilder
[19:57] <ScottL_> ckontros, not really at this point since I'm working on some of the lv2 stuff right now
[19:57] <ScottL_> but i'll keep it on my short list
[19:58] <ckontros> ScottL_: Ok. Then Cinepaint alone?
[19:58] <ScottL_> aya, I can get cinepaint alone for Luicd
[19:58] <ScottL_> s/aya/aye
[19:58] <ckontros> Ok. Lets shot for that ASAP. Maye you'll get to the others.;)
[19:59] <ScottL_> stochastic, i've been working directly with nedko directly for zynjacku and the others
[19:59] <stochastic> okay, I think the team would welcome that into the video meta
[19:59] <stochastic> ScottL_, good, good.
[20:00] <stochastic> Should we revisit Live video manipulation in Lucid (and possibly Ubuntu Studio Controls) now that luisbg is here?
[20:00] <ckontros> Si
[20:00] <luisbg_> stochastic, Live video manipulation?
[20:01] <luisbg_> can you do that in Ubuntu now?
[20:01] <stochastic> luisbg_, there are a number of VJ tools in the repos
[20:01] <ckontros> abogani: After the current topic, can you chime in on -rt situation?
[20:01] <stochastic> luisbg_, what's the state of freemix?
[20:01] <luisbg_> stochastic, freej and freemix, right?
[20:02] <stochastic> luisbg_, and lives
[20:02] <luisbg_> freemix is stable, I want to add a lot more features but there are people around the globe using it
[20:02] <luisbg_> and it doesnt crash
[20:02] <luisbg_> I obviously use freemix
[20:02] <ckontros> But not on Solaris. :P
[20:02] <luisbg_> freej is obsolete feature-wise and I never liked the workflow of lives
[20:03] <luisbg_> ckontros, you speak too soon
[20:03] <ckontros> ;)
[20:03] <luisbg_> I have done gigs with freemix in Opensolaris
[20:03] <luisbg_> it depends on gstreamer and gtk, so it can be ported to all Posix variants
[20:03] <ckontros> luisbg_: SO you wanna add it to the video meta?
[20:03] <stochastic> I was thinking we should add one VJ tool to the metas
[20:03] <luisbg_> ckontros, It would be nice, but I'm not a objective jury of that :P
[20:04] <stochastic> I didn't like the idea of adding LiVES as we already have two video editors
[20:04] <ckontros> stochastic: Didnt you have user requests for this?
[20:04] <ckontros> VJ app?
[20:04] <stochastic> ckontros, there were a couple hints on the forums a while back, nothing recent
[20:04] <stochastic> but in general, I think we need to encourage more of a graphics and video user base
[20:05] <ckontros> Ok. Vote on Freemix in the video meta? +1 here.
[20:05] <stochastic> +1 here.
[20:06] <luisbg_> +1 :P
[20:06] <ScottL_> lives is the only video editor that is JACK aware, no?
[20:06] <luisbg_> hopefully I will have time to add a killer feature soon
[20:06] <luisbg_> I have it all planned, just need to have time to code
[20:07] <stochastic> ScottL_, well once Jack is in Main, they'll all be jack aware ;P
[20:07] <ckontros> Blender might be. :)
[20:08] <ScottL_> luisbg_, speaking of coding, are you working with rlamerio on Studio Controls?
[20:08] <luisbg_> I'm not being a skeptic but...
[20:08] <luisbg_> why would you need Jack for a video editor?
[20:08] <stochastic> firewire soundcards
[20:08] <luisbg_> ScottL_, we had a chat but havent laid down plans yet
[20:09] <stochastic> luisbg_, well we really do need to see improvements in Controls this cycle.  I'm open to helping, but my plate is rather full.
[20:10] <luisbg_> stochastic, sure
[20:11] <luisbg_> we can have a few chats to do planning
[20:11] <luisbg_> and then finding time/people to do the code will be easier
[20:11] <stochastic> luisbg_, sounds good.
[20:12] <ScottL_> stochastic, you getting the minutes for this meeting?
[20:12] <stochastic> well that wraps up the agenda
[20:12] <stochastic> ScottL_, okay.
[20:12] <luisbg_> stochastic, I will grab you in the channel in the next few days
[20:12] <luisbg_> and have planning chat
[20:12] <stochastic> luisbg_, excellent.
[20:12] <ckontros> bye guys.
[20:12] <ScottL_> oi, what about getting access to the ubuntustudio.org site?
[20:12] <abogani> About RT: I'm working to update current rt kernel in Karmic. After that I propose to upload 2.6.31-rt into Lucid (that is the same in Karmic). Seems that it works pretty well (not many bugs) perhaps the only interesting bug is with VirtualBox. By the way, Anyone can sponsor me to obtain per-packages upload rights? Luke is very awesome person but he is the only can upload updates for rt kernel (I don't like only-one-man-approach). This is t
[20:12] <abogani> he reason why since Intrepid RT sucks.
[20:13] <luisbg_> ScottL_, :( sorry about that, remind me tomorrow when Cory is around so we can get access from the Canonical folks
[20:13] <luisbg_> abogani, I think Luke is also the man that can get you to get those rights
[20:13] <luisbg_> or how to do so
[20:14] <stochastic> abogani, so does that mean that we'll be shipping a kernel in Lucid that doesn't match mainstream's kernel version?
[20:14] <abogani> stochastic: Yes,
[20:15] <dtchen> abogani: I'm also core (again), so let me know how I can assist.
[20:15] <abogani> no way to have 2.6.32 rt kernel enough stable for an LTS release.
[20:15] <abogani> dtchen: Ohhh thanks! :-)
[20:15] <stochastic> is that going to break many things like alsa?
[20:16] <abogani> I don't think.
[20:16] <abogani> Obviously we suffer of "On generic my sound card works and not on -rt" a lot.
[20:16] <abogani> s/suffer/will suffer
[20:17] <stochastic> okay, well if there's no way to get 2.6.32 rt stablized in time, then I guess this is the lesser of two evils
[20:18] <ScottK> abogani: Might it not be better to release with something perhaps less stable and plan on post-release updates than put an entirely different kernel version in the archive for 5 years?
[20:18] <ScottK> stochastic: I don't necessarily agree.
[20:19] <ScottK> We're investing time and effort in this cycle to reduce the number of unsupportable packages in the archive and a unique kernel variant is not good from that perspective.
[20:20] <ScottK> Also, as I understand it, several distros are settlingin 2.6.32 for a longer support period, and a 2.6.31 RT kernel would miss out on that.
[20:20] <stochastic> abogani, what exactly is the state of the 2.6.32 rt patches?
[20:20] <abogani> ScottK: MRG will ship 2.6.31.
[20:21] <ScottK> abogani: What is MRG?
[20:21] <ScottK> Debian will also be on 2.6.32.
[20:21] <abogani> stochastic: Don't exist at all. As like Intrepid (2.6.27) and Jaunty( 2.6.28) rt kernels for these versione never see the light.
[20:21] <ScottL_> MRG = red hat?
[20:22]  * stochastic needs to be on his way
[20:22] <abogani> ScottL_: Exactly.
[20:22] <stochastic> ScottL_, can you take care of the minutes, now that the meeting is continuing?
[20:22] <ScottL_> stochastic, certainly
[20:23] <ScottL_> stochastic, just realize that I missed the beginning though
[20:23] <stochastic> ScottL_, okay, I'll fix that later
[20:23] <ScottL_> stochastic, okay
[20:23] <abogani> Unfortunately I can't do the port for 2.6.23 as I already done for intrepid and Jaunty.
[20:23] <abogani> /23/32
[20:25] <ScottL_> well, i'm guessing that is it for the Ubuntu Studio developers meeting unless someone else has anything to add?
[20:26] <ScottK> I think someone should talk to the release team about this plan to ship a different kernel.
[20:26] <ScottL_> ScottK, I will talk to stochastic , luisbg_ or ckontros to make sure the release team knows about it
[20:27] <luisbg_> ScottL_, :)
[20:27] <dtchen> err, eww, 31?
[20:27] <ScottK> ScottL_: I think it's more than informing the release team.  I think it needs some discussion and agreement.
[20:27] <dtchen> if it comes to that, I would recommend that we don't ship an rt at all.
[20:27] <dtchen> we can always stuff the kernel in a PPA
[20:28] <dtchen> but seriously, multiple source bases for linux is going to be a serious pain point
[20:28] <ScottL_> ScottK, certainly.
[20:28] <dtchen> and 31 works fine in lucid right now; there aren't any major udev skews [yet, fingers crossed]
[20:31] <ScottL_> okay, more discussion to follow later on the -rt kernel, anything else for Studio?
[20:33] <ScottL_> right.  then it appears the Ubuntu Studio meeting is completed
[20:33] <abogani> Ok. Good night to all!