=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk === Pici` is now known as Pici === Hobbsee is now known as Guest78837 === robbiew is now known as robbiew_ === asac_ is now known as asac === astechgeek is now known as techgeek [07:15] Good morning [07:16] gabaug: hal> not completely removed from the archive, of course; there are still many rdepends (KDE is the biggest one) [07:16] hello pitti :) [07:16] how are you? [07:17] bonjour didrocks! I'm great, thanks! [07:17] it's just effing cold outside :-( [07:17] we have snow since Saturday [07:18] same here. Snow in Paris on Sunday! :) The only counter-part is that I've waited for my bus yesterday evening for 40 min in the cold :/ [07:24] netvertheless, I had the time to resubmit a new patch to bug #496301. If you have some time today... we will get an une desktop session :) [07:24] Launchpad bug 496301 in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings "Add Ubuntu Netbook Edition session" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496301 [07:24] hope it's good this time :) [07:26] heya guys [07:26] hey bryce [07:27] you were on vacations, weren't you? [07:27] yes, for 1 week [07:28] hey bryce, good morning [07:28] or, evening [07:28] enjoyed your time off? [07:28] unfortunately had a cold and was sick for most of it, so not so much :-/ [07:29] ugh, what a bad timing :( [07:29] I usually don't mind so much having a cold when working, but during holidays it sucks [07:29] with remainder, did xmas decoration/shopping/partying/etc. [07:30] yeah, wasn't too bad of a cold, but made me too tired to do anything productive [07:32] pitti, looks like xserver 1.7 is all in; still awaiting the new -wacom to get into debian [07:40] bryce: yeah, I'm totally happy that we could push that into alpha1! === ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje [08:33] good morning everyone [08:35] hey [08:36] hey seb128 [08:36] hello chrisccoulson [08:36] how are you today? [08:37] good I think [08:37] let me go through another round of coffee before confirming ;-) [08:37] how are you? [08:38] yeah, i'm ok. quite tired though, as i ended up having quite a late night last night [08:38] coffee sounds like a good idea :) [08:39] salut seb128, ça va? [08:39] hey chrisccoulson [08:39] hey didrocks, how are you? [08:39] lut didrocks [08:39] chrisccoulson: the weather is cold, but I'm fine, thanks :-) and you? tired apparently? [08:40] heh, yeah. the weather is starting to turn cold here too [08:40] snow forecast this week (hopefully) [08:45] oh, pitti starts rocking early in the day, thanks for the indicator-application newing and the sru review [08:47] seb128: bonjour [08:47] hey pitti [08:47] seb128: I source/binary-NEWed it into main [08:47] thanks [08:47] I was going to ask about main next [08:47] packaging is fine now, and a MIR wouldn't give us additional information really *shrug* [08:47] dunno if you read backlog from yesterday or not [08:47] "yet another indicator" [08:47] I'm rather interested in how it affects startup speed :) [08:47] right, new package, like no security record, upstream tracker to watch or debian packaging, etc [08:47] I'm about to do daily charts [08:48] the mini just finished upgrade [08:49] after today's dist-upgrade, the message and user indicator just say "no notifications" (literally, in the panel), hmm [08:50] pitti, you got indicator-applet 0.3? [08:50] kenvandine and tedg don't know about Breaks apparently [08:50] seb128: no, I don't have that yet, I just NEWed it [08:50] at least tedg didn't before I explained yesterday [08:51] oh, sorry, no; I NEWed i-application [08:51] I have i-applet 0.2.0 [08:51] indicator-applet is an upgrade" [08:51] it was about to build when I went to bed [08:52] pitti, what arch? [08:52] amd64 [08:52] the amd64 built finished 4 hours ago [08:52] weird [08:52] did you just upgrade? [08:52] do you use a mirror? [08:52] * pitti upgrades again [08:52] no, this morning, and I'm using archive.u.c. [08:53] * pitti got up two hours ago already, though [08:53] 4 hours ago, with publishing etc it might have been one round after your upgrade [08:53] right, there it comes [08:53] merci [08:53] de rien ;-) [08:55] hey pitti - do you want me to look at the g-p-m update (or do you plan to look at it today)? [08:55] chrisccoulson: please go ahead if you want [08:55] pitti - cool, i'll take that one then [08:55] thanks! [08:55] urg, ctrl-w on the wrong screen agai [08:55] +n [08:57] note to self, the focus is not always on the screen you look at [08:57] haha, trapped in dual-screen? :-) [08:57] I'm wondering if I should unset ctrl-w in xchat-gnome [08:57] pitti, yes, I've IRC on one screen and webbrowser on the other [08:58] and I keep closing IRC tabs instead of firefox ones [09:01] chrisccoulson, good work on the gnome-python-extras update ;-) [09:02] seb128 - i should probably not do disruptive updates late at night next time ;) [09:02] it turned in to quite a late one in the end [09:36] * seb128__ kicks his dsl line today === seb128__ is now known as seb128 === seb128 is now known as seb128_ === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [10:24] re [10:24] Keybuk, it's weird, your bootchart are over 2 seconds off compared to mines there [10:24] and I reinstalled my box with alpha1 yesterday and upgraded [10:24] so I should have no custom changes [10:25] the mark is around 18s there [10:25] and yours is over 20s [10:26] wow, seems the new kernel reduced boot time quite a bit [10:27] seb128: which are yours? [10:27] pitti: yeah I'm hoping it will [10:27] Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091215-1.png [10:27] 4.2 vs. 2.8 seconds [10:27] Keybuk, see the xorg activity [10:27] it takes some 1.5 seconds and 3 seconds for you [10:27] seb128: yours has -8 :-) [10:28] -8 is full of patchy goodness [10:28] including patches to the i915 driver [10:28] mine from yesterday still have -7 [10:28] http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20091214-max.png [10:28] (and on a completely different mini) [10:28] http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20091214-ratchet.png [10:28] I think my charts were already under 20 seconds yesterday [10:29] but I wiped those in the reinstall now [10:29] depends when yesterday [10:29] live fs builds are basically over night [10:29] ok [10:29] so yesterday's charts were really "the night before's" distro [10:29] it might be it then [10:29] where is your current guess-time btw? [10:29] there isn't a current one [10:29] your desktop count seems different from the ones I get with the version you gave me some time ago [10:29] I merged all that code back into bootchart [10:30] guess-time give me desktop times between 10.3 and 10.8 [10:30] and your marks are over 11 seconds [10:30] right, the current code is a bit more strict [10:30] http://people.canonical.com/~scott/make-bootchart [10:30] ^ that's a good script ;) [10:30] thanks [10:31] it'll output the times on stdout in the order total, time-to-kernel, time-to-x, etc. [10:31] desktop is the total minus time to gdm-session-worker starting, etc. [10:31] you can also do NO_PRUNE=1 make-bootchart ... [10:31] to get much more detail [10:37] Keybuk, for CHART_TGZ do? [10:38] should that be with a "in ...;" [10:38] ? [10:38] that's the argument on the command-line [10:38] for FOO means "for each argument" [10:38] oh ok [10:39] (I hate touchpads) [10:39] (keep clicking without wanting to while typing) [10:41] seb128: you can disable clicks when typing [10:42] tseliot, that option is on by default in karmic and lucid [10:42] but that seems to be a fail for me on the mini10v [10:42] dunno if I let my hands laying around for a second after typing or something [10:42] or if that's buggy [10:43] seb128: are you saying that you can still click when typing? [10:43] no, I'm saying I keep having jumping cursor [10:43] random selections [10:43] syndaemon was configured with too long a delay in karmic iirc. [10:43] and I'm only using the keyboard, I've an external mouse [10:44] ie I must be touching the touchpad with my palms or something [10:44] when you pause typing for a while and then shift a little, you could accidentally trigger the touchpad [10:44] * hyperair has the same issue [10:44] yes [10:44] or when I place my hands over the keyboard before starting typing [10:44] I touch the touchpad on the way [10:44] the delay is half a second, which is too short. [10:44] and it mess cursor before I start typing [10:45] * seb128 wants the option to disable touchpad back [10:45] seb128: that can be done [10:45] isn't there a hardware button to disable it? [10:45] * hyperair has some fn key for it [10:45] yes, on some laptops [10:45] hmm not all eh [10:46] seb128: if that change is welcome I'll do it [10:46] tseliot, that would be great [10:47] tjaalton: any idea when that xkbcomp patch will be fixed? [10:47] Keybuk, seems you are almost on target for the non desktop part of boot now [10:47] 18 seconds, 11 being desktop [10:48] seb128: ok then [10:48] which means you use 7 seconds with a 6 seconds target? [10:48] tseliot, thanks [10:48] what happened to the xkbcomp patch? [10:48] it's broken and tjaalton disabled it [10:48] seb128: right, though that's without a splash screen [10:49] which will add time [10:49] good point [10:49] you might think that having it disabled at the moment is deliberate to prove just how much boot time having a splash screen adds ;) [10:49] Keybuk: let me check, I think I can adapt it to the new X [10:49] tseliot: if you can, that would be awesome [10:53] yep, it's quite big and I don't have much time this week [10:54] tseliot: enable it & build, see how it fails [10:55] tjaalton: I've applied the patch and it fails to patch configure.ac (which is trivial to fix) and xkb/ddxLoad.c (only two hunks) [10:55] tseliot: uh, it should apply, just fails to build [10:56] right, applies here [10:56] tjaalton: do you have a link to that patch? (in case I'm using the wrong one) [10:57] tseliot: yes, git clone git://git.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/xserver/xorg-server :) [10:57] or apt-get source [10:57] it hasn't changed since bryce updated it to apply [10:58] ah, right you only removed the patch from the series file [10:58] yes [11:00] but you have commit rights, fix it in git [11:01] hmm, seems that you don't [11:02] I don't [11:02] create an account on alioth, and we'll sort it out [11:02] (.debian.org) [11:03] ok [11:07] seb128: ugh, dkms screwed up the boot totally [11:07] 4s :-/ [11:07] and do you know what it took that 4s to do? [11:07] figure out that it had *nothing* to do [11:08] :-( [11:08] tjaalton: when I click on the URL to activate my account I get an error: "Error Could Not Get User" [11:08] Keybuk, btw do you know if the gdm to gnome-session 0.8 seconds are due to the udev-acl.ck? [11:08] the bar for that process seems to just fit in the gap between those [11:09] seb128: yes, likely [11:09] tseliot: filled all the mandatory fields? [11:09] Keybuk, is that something you plan to look at? [11:09] tseliot: -> #u-x [11:10] tjaalton: username and password were the only fields that I could see [11:10] ok [11:10] seb128: it's not directly on my list, pitti might want to though [11:10] pitti, ^ [11:10] it's the ck bit [11:10] it's almost a quarter of our login budget [11:10] seb128: haven't looked at this one yet; mind adding a work item for me? (sorry, busy ATM) [11:10] a fifth to be exact [11:11] pitti, ok, will do === Guest78837 is now known as Hobbsee [11:24] Keybuk: is there an equivalent of ureadahead for the post-login pieces? [11:25] sabdfl: ureadahead covers them [11:25] if you mean things like gnome-panel [11:25] assuming the same person logs in [11:30] of course [11:30] there is that assumption [11:31] Keybuk: I have fixed the xkbcomp patch [11:32] tseliot: \o/ [11:32] :-) [11:33] pitti: I have fixed dkms ;) [11:33] I copied the logic from update-initramfs into it [11:33] yay you [11:33] module package postinst will rebuild the module for the "right" kernel version [11:33] installing a newer kernel later will rebuild the modules [11:34] if you boot an older kernel, you probably won't have the newer module, but that's probably *right* [11:34] (one assumes you're booting the older kernel because you had a problem) [11:34] what if you don't have a module for the old kernel? [11:35] tseliot: then you didn't have a module for the old kernel before either [11:35] so it will work just as well as the last time you used that kernel :p [11:35] Keybuk: right but the module should me built on boot in that case [11:35] no it shouldn't [11:36] your booting an old kernel [11:36] things should not be rebuilt for it [11:36] because it might be that very thing that broke [11:36] the only reason to ever keep an old kernel around is to be able to go back to *something that worked* [11:37] ok good point === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:46] tseliot: fixed xkbcomp patch => can you upload or do you need someone else to? [11:52] I can do that [11:52] please do [11:52] I'm eager to get a "perfect bootchart" of the current set of updates [11:52] before I ruin it by turning plymouth on :p [11:52] hehe [11:58] Keybuk: sure, I'll push changes [12:05] pitti: do you think we can discuss the nvidia name schemes at the desktop meeting? [12:27] tseliot: sure, if you think you can benefit from more input [12:29] pitti: yes, I would like to discuss that and an idea that superm1 and Sarvatt had about reducing the number of packages that each nvidia source package generates [12:29] which one was that? [12:34] tjaalton, tseliot: did you upload that new xkbcomp patch yet? [12:34] Keybuk: on the way [12:34] Keybuk: tjaalton will do that for me [12:34] :D [12:34] AWTY! [12:35] tjaalton: basically they suggested that we have something like nvidia-190 (which includes glx, kernel-source, vdpau), modaliases and nvidia-190-dev [12:36] tseliot: they all are needed anyway= [12:36] ? [12:36] tjaalton: the first two are always installed [12:36] and what occured to me was that the "current" source package can be just "nvidia-graphics-drivers" without any version [12:37] yes, that's a separate part of the plan [12:37] that way there's no need to shove all the bugs to a new version [12:37] yes, but that would still build nvidia-XXX [12:38] ??? [12:38] binary package [12:39] aah, you were referring to the source package [12:39] as a bug triager the only benefit to rename the package to something that doesn't change is that the bugs are always filed to the same package [12:39] right [12:39] * tseliot nods [12:39] doesn't matter what binaries it produces [12:40] yes and I was thinking about not needing the package to be in NEW when nvidia bumps the release number [12:40] and I can't see a way to make upgrades robust enough without having the major version in the binary name [12:40] that too === saucygrl91 is now known as MenZa [12:40] which I'm sure the archive admins will appreciate [12:40] unless of course, the package is removed on upgrade :) [12:41] since I went through a bunch of crashers and some of them occured during a dist-upgrade [12:41] tjaalton: what if the version in written in the modalias file? [12:41] and we use nvidia-common to handle the transition [12:42] (with update manager) [12:42] it was just an idea, probably too radical anyway ;) [12:43] we can discuss it at the desktop meeting [12:43] when was that? [12:44] Keybuk: "no" ;) [12:44] tjaalton: today at 17:30 CET [12:44] tjaalton: hmm? [12:44] I assume that we're in the same time zone === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [12:44] Keybuk: thin Homer (S.) [12:44] thinK [12:45] tseliot: nope, EEST here ;) [12:45] d'oh [12:45] oh wait, that summer time [12:45] anyway, 18:30 [12:45] tjaalton, 16:30 utc [12:46] yep [12:46] * tseliot uses google calendar so that he doesn't have to deal with time zones [12:47] that works up until the point you realise that google calendar doesn't deal with time zones either [12:49] Keybuk: ??? [12:49] tseliot: it gets daylight savings time very horribly wrong [12:49] actually that seems to work quite well nowadays [12:49] it has always worked for me but I have used it only since I joined Canonical [12:49] either that, or Rick uses CET for all his calendaring activity :) [12:50] heh [12:53] Keybuk: uploaded [13:02] \o/. [13:02] I shall have lunch while that builds [13:10] whoa, only 6 people in here? [13:10] ah [13:10] seb128: do you have a minute to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers ? [13:10] seb128: that's the proposed policy for adding new ubuntu-desktop members, similar to what you wrote by email the other day [13:14] pitti, ok looking [13:15] pitti, looks great, thank you for writting it and keeping paperwork level low there ;-) [13:16] yay [13:18] seb128: are you still actually using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO ? [13:18] pitti, no [13:18] seb128: I'm inclined to drop that and remove TODO and WeeklyTodo (which is a nonexisting page) from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam [13:18] we have versions.html now [13:18] right [13:18] I use the title urls [13:19] versions and milestoned bug tasks [14:14] mvo: hey, I am trying to get charlines computer up to the latest usable software-center (the one with all the apps) [14:14] mvo: I added the ppa to her sources and updated but it still seems the same, does she need to use the daily-build? [14:15] mvo: erm, ignore that [14:16] sorry [14:53] tseliot, ArneGoetje, bryce, ccheney, Riddell, kenvandine, seb128: please add your weekly report to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-15 ; thanks! [14:53] pitti, will do [14:53] sure [14:53] oh wiki page is there now ;-) [14:54] just created it [14:54] pitti: activity report? [14:54] right [14:54] pitti, no rickspencer3 today? [14:54] seb128: he'll be in a meeting at that time === pitti is now known as fake_rickspencer [14:54] kenvandine, hey [14:54] * fake_rickspencer makes whip cracking noises [14:54] hey seb128 [14:55] hehe [14:55] you will all get a payrise, btw [14:55] kenvandine, is rb supposed to install the indicator-application binary? === fake_rickspencer is now known as pitti [14:55] pitti, ;-) [14:55] :) [14:55] I'm supposed to have my weekly call with rick before meeting [14:55] seb128, you mean as a dep? [14:55] I wonder if that will skip too [14:55] libappindicator? [14:55] hey rickspencer3 [14:55] seb128: should be fine [14:55] kenvandine, well I just upgraded, the new lib got installed [14:55] seb128: I'm doing the meeting so that you can have your call :) [14:55] pitti, thank you for covering for me this morning [14:55] and now I've no indicator icon nor notification [14:55] you are truly the best [14:56] rickspencer3: no problem :) [14:56] seb128, humm [14:56] kenvandine, I reboot if that makes a difference [14:56] * rickspencer3 has meetings all during today [14:56] rickspencer3, our weekly call is still on? [14:56] ^sympathy is not inappropriate at this time [14:56] well, the indicator-applet will need to restart if that service just got installed [14:56] seb128, yes, that is one of the meetings ;) [14:56] * seb128 hugs rickspencer3 [14:56] ok, good [14:56] seb128, let me know how it goes :) [14:57] kenvandine, I rebooted [14:57] oh, no luck? [14:58] seb128, so when you start rb it should add an icon to the right of the indicator-applet [14:58] which has a menu when you click on it, play, next, prev, quit [14:59] no icon [14:59] what version of indicator-applet? [14:59] you are sure that the indicator-application binary is not required? [14:59] 0.3 [14:59] hummm... it is actually [15:00] * kenvandine looks to see what is wrong [15:00] so you didn't get indicator-application installed? [15:00] I got the lib [15:00] not the binary [15:00] dunno if that's what is expected [15:00] if the binary is of any use there [15:01] it is, the service itself is in that package [15:01] ok, i'll fix it [15:01] ok so you need a depends or recommends somewhere [15:01] and fallback is not working [15:02] yeah [15:02] ok [15:02] * kenvandine wonders why the folks testing on karmic from the ppa didn't catch this [15:02] :/ [15:06] kenvandine, did you read my comment about breaks too? [15:06] the one I let yesterday [15:06] yeah [15:06] ok good [15:06] thx [15:06] np [15:13] kenvandine: mind if I ask you something in pm? [15:13] sure [15:14] 1749 scott 20 0 594m 2264 1448 R 40 0.1 100:33.56 pulseaudio [15:14] *hate* [15:16] * Amaranth wonders what these 'exe' processes are [15:16] oh, silly chrome === bjf-afk is now known as bjf [16:13] kenvandine, is fixing the indicator-application thing blocking or anything now? [16:13] ie, do you need sponsoring or do you want to discuss where to put the recommends? [16:13] perms to upload :) [16:13] just ping on the channel when you need sponsoring [16:13] especially for things which are broken [16:14] one min, on phone [16:14] what needs sponsoring? the indicator-application bzr? [16:14] ok [16:16] mvo: aloha, do you happen to know of a bug, where on karmic, the software center is missing, but the add/remove functionality is back ?? [16:17] pitti, kenvandine, seb128 can you guys discuss some ways of marking bugs as "blockers" or similar? [16:17] the idea being that we can identify bug_tasks that are blocking packages from getting integrated before the release? [16:18]