=== cassidy` is now known as cassidy [00:22] pitti: sorry about earlier, i'm off until jan 4 [00:22] pitti: wrt the xulrunner status i have the wiki page up to date with what is currently using it on for the various releases [00:26] ccheney: you are off? [00:27] gtk ;) === bjf is now known as bjf-afk [00:28] asac: yea [00:29] have a great vac then ;) [00:29] if you need some action we should start backporting stuff ;) [00:31] do we need to put the new firefox in before converting the packages over, or what is the next step? === eeejay_away is now known as eeejay [03:58] robert_ancell: Usually the keyboard module in the kernel has an option to allow you to revert the fn functinoality, and I even think this is adjustable in the keyboard prefs. [03:59] TheMuso, yes, I figured it was configurable but if it is the default then it's only a feature for advanced users [04:02] robert_ancell: I agree with you there. I know on my MacBook Pro, I have to change it, as I prefer to use brightness/volume etc with the fn key, because I am less likely to use them than I am using a function key proper. [04:03] TheMuso, yes, I'm very surprised my laptop has "disable wifi" on the p [04:03] F2 key - that seems way to easy to bump [04:03] * TheMuso nods. [04:26] TheMuso, I just screwed up a package version, is 2.28.0-0ubuntu6netbook2 greater than 2.28.0-0ubuntu6netbook1ubuntu2? [04:30] robert_ancell, 2.28.0-0ubuntu6netbook2 is greater than 2.28.0-0ubuntu6netbook1ubuntu2? [04:30] kenvandine, thanks :) [04:30] np [04:31] dpkg --compare-versions [04:31] :) [04:31] dch keeps confusing me [04:31] me too [04:31] :) === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away === asac_ is now known as asac [08:37] pitti: lool sponsored my work on une session if you didn't notice. Sorry for the conffile mess up, it was the first time I moved a conffile and I didn't thought about existing "non standard" configuration. It's in my mind now ;) [08:42] hey there! [08:44] salut seb128, il n'y a personne pour le moment ;) ça va ? [08:44] salut didrocks, oui, et toi ? [08:44] ça va, plus que 2 jours et des poussières \o/ [08:48] good morning everyone [08:48] hey chrisccoulson [08:48] how are you? [08:48] morning chrisccoulson [08:48] hey seb128 / didrocks [08:49] yeah, i'm good thanks, just got some coffee :) [08:49] how are you? [08:49] still a bit sleepy but good thanks [08:51] pitti - would you mind me doing a karmic SRU for bug 428884, in gnome-screensaver? it seems that users are becoming a bit unhappy that it doesn't work properly now [08:51] Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-command --poke no longer inhibits screensaver" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884 [08:56] mdeslaur: i just saw bug 450934 - that's not really a bug there [08:56] Launchpad bug 450934 in gnome-screensaver "Mandatory idle_delay is not honored in Karmic" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450934 [08:56] that gconf key is not used by gnome-screensaver any more [08:56] it uses the idle delay set by a key owned by gnome-session [08:57] mdeslaur - the correct key is actually /desktop/gnome/session/idle_delay [09:02] seb128 - are you looking forward to the festive break? [09:03] chrisccoulson: maybe we should ask upstream to remove this key from the schema, so. [09:03] chrisccoulson, yes, very much! [09:03] didrocks - yeah, possibly [09:03] seb128 - do you finish this week? [09:03] chrisccoulson, do you take holidays for the end of year? [09:04] chrisccoulson, yes, friday after work until next year [09:04] seb128 - i've used all my holiday already, so I'm working up until christmas eve ;) [09:04] :-( [09:04] good luck with that [09:04] but i will probably be the only one here ;) [09:04] I might be around every now and then [09:04] I'm not planning any travelling or anything [09:04] so I will probably be bored by moments or be wanting to do some hacking [09:05] seb128 - that's probably how i will spend the time between christmas and new year ;) [09:06] seb128: won't you plan some video games on the wii too? (btw, did you buy zelda?) ;) [09:06] didrocks, I will probably, not yet, I'm not decided on what game to get [09:07] ok :) [09:07] didrocks, what about you? [09:07] you have a wii? [09:07] anything planed for holidays? [09:08] seb128: going to my parents' home (in Alpes), rest, video games, ski and a little hacking too :) [09:08] cool [09:08] chrisccoulson, yes, what about you? [09:08] but rest mainly, before working hard on January ^^ [09:08] do you play video games sometime? [09:08] I've to admit I don't play often [09:08] seb128 - yeah, i got one for my girlfriend, but she never uses it [09:08] I'm too busy during the week and weekend are short [09:08] and i've not used it either, due to lack of time ;) [09:08] too many things to do, like sleeping [09:08] (same for me, only playing during holidays) [09:09] but during a 2 weeks break I will probably manage to play a game [09:09] chrisccoulson: you know, you have to train at wii sport (tennis especially) to enter the seb128's challenge at next UDS :) [09:10] lol [09:10] i can imagine if i practise tennis in my small lounge, then i will probably break something ;) [09:10] I've learnt to not play against vuntz after midnight when you had some drinks [09:11] hehe :) [09:11] he's not drinking and that's not a fair game there ;-) [09:11] lol [09:11] I totally agree, that's not fair :) [09:11] I managed to do better at tetris at least [09:11] ;-) [09:12] sure, I'll have to train a lot those 3 weeks too :-) [09:12] what game do you play usually during holidays ? [09:12] the mario kart? [09:13] is that fun in solo mode too? [09:13] I've finished mario kart and I don't play too much online. solo mode is great, but I prefer when you can get some people home :) [09:13] right [09:13] we've got mario kart, but i've not played it yet [09:13] that's like wii sport [09:14] and my girlfriend don't like video games anymore, so... [09:14] seb128: exactly, that's why I'm not good at tennis :p [09:14] didrocks, lol, "anymore" [09:14] yes, she played a lot when she was younger... but no more nowdays [09:15] you are too good and doesn't let other people win? ;-) [09:15] well, now, I'm playing to RPG or ARPG like zelda, final fantasy, kingdom hearts... [09:15] seb128: pff [09:15] seb128: this had nothing to do with the time or drinks [09:15] seb128: the only sport I'm good at wii sport is golf ;) I don't play too much with the other games [09:16] seb128: we can have a game whenever you want ;-) [09:17] tjaalton, tseliot: that xkbcomp patch made all the difference! :) [09:17] vuntz, ok, next time I will be ready for you :-) [09:17] X.org today 1.39s [09:17] (budget 2s) [09:18] yeah, extra time for desktop login! ;-) [09:18] Keybuk: really? how much exactly? [09:18] Keybuk: great news :-) and it was just a two lines fix [09:18] seb128: I'm afraid that's rather 0.61s more for plymounth :) [09:18] plymouth* [09:19] * seb128 kicks didrocks [09:19] meh, I want the X25-M G2 already.. [09:19] hey, that hurts :-) [09:19] didrocks: one of the main reasons plymouth isn't going in yet is because I want the boot time fixed ;) [09:19] so plymouth can be forbidden from increasing it [09:20] seb128: Ctrl+w again on the wrong screen? :) [09:20] Keybuk: oh, ok :) [09:20] indeed [09:26] Keybuk: that time could maybe shrink even more, by disabling the record extension which is broken, and not letting evdev grab bogus devices [09:27] tjaalton: Do. It. [09:27] hehe [09:27] if you want to shove something in a PPA for me to test, I have hardware to spare [09:27] ok then [09:29] you can probably change 65-xorg-evdev.rules by hand. for testing it should be enough to match only INPUT_MOUSE and INPUT_KEYBOARD (and not subsystem "input") [09:29] anyone know if MacSlow is on vacation? [09:33] Keybuk: xserver uploaded to my ppa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~tjaalton/+archive/ppa [09:33] will take a while to build [09:34] ok [09:38] looks like RECORD is being fixed upstream, and could get in a 1.7.x, but at least the server won't spend time disabling it :) [09:43] mac_v: yes, he's on holiday today [09:44] tseliot: ah , thanks.. [09:48] mvo, hi [09:49] mvo, did you read my xapian comment yesterday? [09:50] tjaalton: the evdev change didn't seem to make a difference [09:51] hey seb128 [09:51] seb128: no, sorry - was that on irc? [09:52] mvo, yes [09:52] mvo, indicator-application want exact string matching to work [09:52] tjaalton: then again, it doesn't look like I have any other input devices on here for it to affect [09:52] mvo, ie typing "indicator-applicatio" doesn't list it [09:53] mvo, or indicator-appli [09:53] or whatever which is not the exact name [09:53] actually, scratch that, there's loads from things like the webcam and lid switch [09:54] it could have made a difference [09:54] http://people.canonical.com/~scott/tmp/ratchet-lucid-20091216-5.png [09:54] only 1.28s to start X [09:55] seb128: indicator-application is not showing up at all for me currently [09:55] mvo, did you type "indicator-application"? [09:55] mvo, weird it's there for over a day in lucid [09:57] Keybuk: ok, so another 0.1s [09:57] * mvo checks if his apt-xapian-index is up-to-date [09:58] tjaalton, disabling extensions probably has negligible impact [09:58] seb128: thanks, I have it now (a-x-i was not updated, that is part of the spec but not implemented yet) [09:58] tjaalton: yeah, that's a win [09:59] every tenth counts [09:59] seb128: hm, I get it with indicator-app, but its very low ranked [09:59] if we fix ten things that each take 0.1s, that's 1s [09:59] mvo, do you get the issue? [09:59] mvo, indicator-appli is empty therze [09:59] there [09:59] like nothing in the list [09:59] seb128: yeah, I have that too, I suspect its the "-" in the name, I think I need to handle it secial [09:59] tjaalton, from what I can tell, the biggest win would come from improving whatever happens right before the EDID probing [09:59] * mvo scratches his head [10:00] Keybuk: if you want to disable the record extension without rebuilding X you can put something like this in xorg.conf: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342590/ [10:00] I don't have an xorg.conf ;) [10:01] your xorg-server has built now [10:01] good [10:01] bryce: do you mean in the kernel or in X? [10:02] X [10:02] bryce: the edid trickery in drm probably made it fast on intel, the driver is done after 0.635s, but then it sits idle for 0.8s and there's the message about RECORD being disabled due to it being broken [10:02] so I don't know if disabling it helps at all, but we'll see [10:02] tjaalton, I think it's going to be negligible [10:03] bryce: yep, could be [10:03] I didn't play with RECORD, but I didn't find that flipping extensions off made much difference [10:03] but in this case it seems like the server is doing something and figuring out that the extension is broken, and disables it [10:03] also I think having an xorg.conf present slows things down, so disabling them by adding an xorg.conf actually makes boots take longer [10:04] that's why I think it _might_ have an impact [10:04] but I didn't test that exhaustively [10:05] tjaalton, is RECORD broken on the test hardware? [10:06] bryce: it's broken in 1.7 [10:06] it seems to be present and working on my test box and loading it takes a negligible amount of boot time [10:06] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342594/ [10:07] scroll down :) [10:07] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342595/ [10:08] tjaalton, ah [10:08] [ 1.042708] (II) Initializing built-in extension DAMAGE [10:08] record: RECORD extension enabled at configure time. [10:08] record: This extension is known to be broken, disabling extension now.. [10:08] record: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20500 [10:08] [ 1.073194] (II) AIGLX: enabled GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer [10:08] Freedesktop bug 20500 in Server/general "Record extension not sending event" [Normal,New] [10:09] ok, so in your case it didn't spend much time on that [10:09] 0.03 sec [10:09] maybe it was the AIGLX init that took time here [10:09] is it "broken but needs fixed" or "broken and should just be removed" ? [10:10] the former [10:10] patches available on that bug [10:10] not yet in master [10:10] if the former, then counting boot benefit from disabling it is just cheating. ;-) === warp10_ is now known as warp10 [10:10] right, I mentioned that earlier :) [10:11] tjaalton: can't see any difference in the record patch [10:11] likely lost in the noise [10:11] Keybuk: yeah [10:11] seb128: its defenitely something odd with xapian, it breaks the query into two sub-queries [10:11] seb128: thanks for letting me know [10:12] mvo, np, do you want a bug report? [10:12] seb128: no, I work on it now [10:12] mvo, ok thanks [10:33] morning everyone ! [10:37] good morning huats === korn_ is now known as c_korn === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk === pedro is now known as pedro_ [13:02] The 'DesktopTeam/TODO' page linked to from the /topic of this channel doesn't exist. This probably doesn't mean there isn't anything to do, does it? [13:03] no, it means that was not uptodate and has been cleaned [13:03] the todolists are the other topic urls [13:03] updates and milestoned bugs [13:04] ah, I see [13:04] shouldn't the page be created though? It could point to those other two pages. [13:08] ups === seb128 changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to #ubuntu-desktop - home of the Desktop team - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop/ | If you want to help out, check out https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21439 or http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html | For support please join #ubuntu [13:08] qense, better? [13:08] yep [13:13] chrisccoulson: ah! thanks for the hint, for some reason that slipped my mind. [13:14] mdeslaur - you're welcome :) [13:20] asac: would you like me to post my modemmanager patch to the networkmanager-list, or are you going to take a look at it? [13:24] mdeslaur: did you poke me about that before ?;) [13:24] bug id? [13:25] asac: bug #496206 [13:25] Launchpad bug 496206 in modemmanager "Analog USB modem isn't closed when probing fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496206 [13:25] mdeslaur: thx [13:26] asac: yes, I poked you about it before, but wasn't sure if you're still doing NM stuff [13:27] mdeslaur: you didnt tell me you submitted a patch ;) [13:27] i need pings or bug assignments t;) [13:27] asac: you must have missed it :) [13:28] mdeslaur: so ... haveńt looked at code, but why is that +CGMM already in the mm log you attached [13:28] because in my case ATI is successful, so it's getting the CGMM from the code a few lines below my patch [13:29] * asac updates his mm branch ;) [13:29] once CGMM fails in my logs, task_priv->probe_state == PROBE_STATE_LAST [13:29] the code is slightly confusing, as task_priv->probe_state is tracking the _next_ probe that should be done, not the probe that just completed [13:30] so PROBE_STATE_CGMM should try CGMM, not assume that CGMM failed [13:30] mpt: would you help me phrasing some strings for the gnome-system-tools? I know you're interested in them [13:35] hey milanbv [13:35] hi! [13:35] i don't often see you on here! [13:36] no, I guess I should add this channel to my favorite [13:36] did you see we've got g-s-t 2.29.1 now ;) [13:36] yeah, nice:! [13:36] hope people won't spot to many bugs - that's a work in progress [13:36] mdeslaur: yeah. i will commit that later today. currently thinking if this whole code should be cleaned up ;) [13:37] milanbv - we want users to spot bugs at this stage of the cycle though ;) [13:37] asac: yeah, it's kind of ugly that it's all in there twice [13:37] thanks asac [13:37] i mean ... we already set the cmd in handle_probe_response [13:37] yeah, but better if there aren't [13:37] so could you help me with those strings? [13:37] I'm writing the descriptions for the user profiles that will be shown in the next version [13:37] mdeslaur: its even in there three time ;) [13:37] mdeslaur: check handle_probe_response ;) [13:37] asac: wow :) [13:38] that already sets the cmd [13:38] but then that gets ignored in the real_ thing and it does its own calc [13:38] etc. [13:38] I'm not very good at finding nice formulations in English, and we have to keep it as simple as possible [13:39] http://paste.ubuntu.com/342698/ [13:57] milanbv, sure [13:57] (sorry, I was in a meeting) [13:58] hi! [13:58] milanbv, where exactly would these appear? [13:58] I think it would be nice if we collaborated more closely for the new GUI [13:58] in a new dialog allowing to choose the account types of an user [13:58] are you using Lucid? [13:59] milanbv, no, I'm on 9.10 [13:59] wait a minute [14:01] vuntz, hey, do you think you could review https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=520226? [14:01] vuntz, it already sort of got reviewed, not sure what is missing for commit [14:01] mpt: see http://nalimilan.perso.neuf.fr/transfert/Capture.png [14:02] with pretty stupid descriptions, they were here for tests [14:02] milanbv, often it's tiny things that show the need for big changes [14:02] milanbv, in that screenshot I see the sentence "Use the advanced settings dialog to tune them." [14:03] milanbv, how do I get to the advanced settings dialog from there? [14:03] you can't [14:04] that's why I needed you ;-) [14:04] but that description is already in the C code - the others are in a config file that is not yet committed [14:05] (I think you can actually install the Lucid version in Karmic, if you want to see it in action) [14:06] milanbv, so, what are three possible ways of making tuning those settings easier? [14:06] I'm not sure we want to make settings this easier [14:06] most users should not see this profile at all, if they don't tweak the settings manually [14:06] (I want to hide that choice if it's not currently selected) [14:06] milanbv, ok then, easier for someone who has already opened this dialog [14:08] I guess, yes [14:10] (BTW, I wrote some explanation of the new UI, including a link the original mockups, at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2009-December/msg00000.html) [14:12] have you seen the draft descriptions I pasted? [14:13] milanbv, so while you're thinking about that, here's another awkwardness: Those draft descriptions heavily use generalities -- "uncommon tasks", "most common tasks", "such as". [14:14] yes [14:14] hard to define precisely what people are allowed to do with admin rights... [14:15] milanbv, those two things combined tell me that the configurable list of actual actions should be presented in the same window as the basic choice. [14:15] (actual actions -> actual permissions) [14:16] you mean, in a new tab? [14:17] the problem is, I don't think most people should ever have to look at them [14:17] which is why I moved them to an advanced tab [14:17] milanbv, but you're having trouble explaining what each account type is for, precisely because you're not showing what they can actually do. [14:18] milanbv, I suggest something like this: http://imgur.com/WzGaf [14:19] milanbv, where the checked status of the checkboxes (and *maybe* the sensitivity of the list as a whole) changes depending on the choice from the initial menu. [14:19] hm, privileges defined as groups in our privileges table don't really define what you can do - because being member of the admin group allows many PolicyKit actions [14:19] milanbv, I have another meeting now, back shortly [14:19] OK [14:37] seb128: do you mind if I take bug #487249 ? or is there something controversila about it [14:37] Launchpad bug 487249 in cheese "Enable "Wide mode" by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487249 [14:38] mvo, I was about to close that one and look to the git gudev port too [14:38] mvo, I'm doing sponsoring this afternoon [14:38] mvo, any particular reason you looked at it? [14:38] seb128: sponsoring hour [14:38] ok [14:38] seb128: it seems to be trivial, if you don't mind I upload it now [14:38] ok thanks [14:39] When are bugs assigned to ubuntu-desktop? I can't find guidelines for that. [14:39] mvo, btw I wanted to discuss compiz with Amaranth and you at some point too [14:39] mvo, he did split compiz in some 27 binaries or something [14:39] seb128: hu??? [14:39] qense, we tend to assign desktop bugs to the list [14:40] mvo, he said he splitted every option in its own binary I think [14:40] mvo, I'm not sure I like it over having just a -universe with things we don't want by default [14:40] and drop buggy options we don't want to support on the way [14:40] * mvo checks bzr [14:41] mvo, I don't think he pushed to the ubuntu bzr I told him to put on hold until we discuss it [14:41] but perhaps in his ppa or something [14:41] seb128: ok, thanks. I was not aware of this change [14:41] seb128: when he is back I'm happy to discuss it [14:41] ok good [14:41] mvo, what is your gut feeling about it? [14:42] the multiscreen doesn't suit me [14:42] seb128: splitting every plugin is overdoing it [14:42] I keep having focus on the screen I'm not looking at ;-) [14:42] mvo, ok, my feeling too [14:42] seb128: I want to know some more first :) [14:43] seb128: any chance somebody review #393854 for Lucid? [14:43] milanbv, I don't understand how that "because" works in your last statement. Is it possible to tell what a member of the admin group is allowed to do? [14:44] not from users-admin - it depends on what the PolicyKit policy allows members of the admin group to do [14:44] who asked about desktop-bugs assigned before? [14:44] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs [14:44] is the desktop packages list [14:44] I did [14:44] or https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs [14:44] qense, ^ [14:44] so basically, this includes installing/upgrading, erasing partitions... [14:45] we tend to assign teams for things there but that's not a requirement [14:45] you assign all triaged bugs of packages on those pages to desktop-bugs? [14:46] mpt: actually, I think our privileges table is kind of messy, because we're currently not 100% PolicyKit, since we're still using Unix groups for some actions [14:48] qense, we tend to do it but maybe we should revisit that [14:48] it has no real interest nowadays I think [14:48] milanbv, if there was an "Advanced" tab for anything, I think it would be for that, i.e. putting the account into those various system Unix groups [14:49] that's mostly what it does [14:49] (plus setting shell, home dir, UID...) [14:49] seb128: ok, thanks for your help [14:50] milanbv, could you give that bug reference again? I close the tab by mistake before looking at it now [14:50] seb128: #393854 [14:50] bug #393854 [14:51] no bot? [14:51] when people seek to change their account type, the only question I think we must answer is "what of those 3 types should I choose"? [14:52] Launchpad bug 393854 in gdm "Update PAM policy to allow password-less logins set up via users-admin" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393854 [14:52] this choice is really simple: user with restricted rights for "strangers", desktop user for most people, admin for the user that usually configures the computer [14:52] milanbv, I will try to get an opinion from somebody in the security team about that [14:52] OK, thanks [14:52] I've ignored it so far because I'm not sure about it [14:52] I don't think that's really a problem, GDM upstream uses this config file too [14:54] well the config file is not so much, but the group adding I'm not sure it's gdm's job [14:55] seb128: we can do this basically anywhere, but logically we can only be sure when installing GDM that the system supports this feature [14:55] which in turn leads to enabling the checkbox in users-admin [14:56] I'm still not sure I like the idea of no password but shrugh [14:56] let's see what security guys say [14:57] hey rickspencer3 [14:58] hi seb128 [14:58] vuntz, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357934, want to review that one? ;-) [14:58] Gnome bug 357934 in Panel "Drag and drop of Bookmarks from Places menu copies entire directory" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [14:59] vuntz, it's a fairly trivial change [14:59] mpt: I have to go soon [15:00] do you think you'll be able to read the design document by Clasen & McCann on the mail I posted (and even to install the development package)? [15:00] then we could discuss more deeply what we should do [15:28] ok, I managed to unactivate ctrl-w now [15:28] should make me stop to close this tab ;-) [15:31] :-) [15:40] seriously, what's going on with freenode lately? [15:42] mvo, is the software-center PPA kept up to date automatically? [15:45] mvo, and if it isn't, what should I do to get bzr trunk running again? (No such file or directory: '/usr/share/app-install/desktop/software-center.menu') [15:48] mpt: its not kept automatically, I uploaded a new version now for the ppa, there is a "daily" ppa that jcastro manages too [15:53] mpt: I mentioned to mvo that it would be nice to list the installed software section by the most recently installed software what do you think? [16:00] chrisccoulson, can you take a look at bug 457123 ? I need someone to upload it :) [16:00] Launchpad bug 457123 in transmission "Transmission doesn't prevent suspend when torrent is active" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457123 [16:03] hi Krzysztof - i'll take a look at that as long as i'm permitted to upload to karmic [16:03] (i think i can) [16:23] asac, hey [16:24] asac, are you still going to look at the gnome-bluetooth update? [16:25] hmm. thought baptistemm did that [16:25] baptistemm: whats the status? [16:25] asac, he's waiting for sponsoring for a while now, it on you [16:25] waiting for a review [16:26] if I understand things correctly [16:26] oh [16:26] let me poke that a bit [16:26] I wonder if any 2.28.x release was issued in-between [16:26] well there is a 2.29 version now [16:26] thats lucid [16:27] so yeah [16:27] well I was not aiming at sruing [16:27]