[10:54] <Keybuk> Non-root users get strange output when they run initctl which tries to get information from system dbus.
[10:54] <Keybuk>  $ initctl list
[10:54] <Keybuk> initctl: Name "com.ubuntu.Upstart" does not exist
[10:54] <Keybuk> sadmac_: ^ really?
[10:54] <Keybuk> WFM
[12:39] <plautrba> Keybuk: it's current state in fedora now
[12:40] <plautrba> and "strange" means that it should say something like you need to be root or someting
[12:41] <Keybuk> no
[12:41] <Keybuk> strange means that it should work
[12:41] <Keybuk> quest scott% initctl list | head -2
[12:41] <Keybuk> avahi-daemon start/running, process 948
[12:41] <Keybuk> mountall-net stop/waiting
[12:43] <plautrba> I agree that it should work
[12:43] <Keybuk> you don't have to be root to use commands like list, status, etc.
[12:52] <temoto1> How to run upstart in user home?
[12:53] <temoto1> I had a day of pain trying to run upstart in debian lenny, without installing it system-wide.
[12:58] <Keybuk> temoto: just install there and use init=/home/temoto/sbin/init ?
[13:03] <temoto> Keybuk: without installing it system wide, also implies without touching existing init system :)
[13:04] <temoto> i could write a line into inittab or something, that's not the point
[13:04] <Keybuk> right
[13:04] <Keybuk> you don't need to
[13:04] <Keybuk> ./configure --prefix=$HOME/upstart
[13:04] <temoto> troubles were in just starting it
[13:04] <Keybuk> then when you boot, init=/home/temoto/upstart/sbin/init
[13:04] <Keybuk> on the kernel command-line
[13:04] <Keybuk> it'll look for config in /home/temoto/upstart/etc/init obviously
[13:04] <Keybuk> so you'll have to provide some
[13:05] <Keybuk> otherwise it won't do much
[13:05] <temoto> i don't want to replace init
[13:05] <temoto> but that's not the point
[13:05] <Keybuk> then you're in the wrong place
[13:05] <Keybuk> Upstart isn't a word processor ;)
[13:05] <Keybuk> it's a replacement for init
[13:05] <temoto> i wanted it to manage separate user jobs.
[13:05] <Keybuk> it's not designed to do that
[13:05] <temoto> ah
[13:06] <Keybuk> it must be pid 1
[13:06] <Keybuk> you can comment out the code that requires it
[13:06] <Keybuk> but you lose things like daemon supervision and stuff
[13:06] <temoto> well init says you can run telinit and it doesn't want to be pid 1
[13:07] <temoto> but i actually had troubles with dbus connection
[13:07] <temoto> it says /com/something is unknown
[13:07] <temoto> i did sudo ~/upstart/sbin/telinit 2
[13:07] <Keybuk> I think you're confusing yourself
[13:07] <temoto> Does that loose daemon supervision?
[13:07] <Keybuk> telinit simply communicates with the init daemon
[13:08] <Keybuk> it's identical to running "initctl emit runlevel RUNLEVEL=2 PREVLEVEL=$(runlevel)"
[13:08] <temoto> That's why it couldn't connect to /com/something?
[13:08] <Keybuk> just easier to type
[13:08] <Keybuk> yes
[13:08] <Keybuk> the thing it couldn't connect to was Upstart
[13:08] <temoto> Thanks :)
[13:08] <Keybuk> something was "com.ubuntu.upstart"
[13:08] <temoto> Yeah.
[13:09] <temoto> Thanks for explanation.
[13:09] <temoto> Maybe it deserves to be mentioned on website.
[13:09] <Keybuk> why?
[13:09] <Keybuk> Upstart is a replacement for Init
[13:10] <Keybuk> if the website listed everything that Upstart wasn't, it'd take months to download
[13:12] <temoto> Maybe it's more obvious that Upstart is not a game and less obvious that you can't run supervisor part without replacing Init. I just proposed, if no, then no, fine. Thanks for explanation anyway.
[13:13] <Keybuk> "Upstart is an event-based replacement for the /sbin/init daemon"
[13:13] <Keybuk> (the first sentence on the website)
[13:13] <Keybuk> I just don't get how people can read that, and think that they can use Upstart without replacing /sbin/init ;)
[13:13] <temoto> What about documentation on stuff like `task' ? Does it exist anywhere? sadmac explained it, but i couldn't find.
[13:13] <Keybuk> I mean
[13:13] <Keybuk> that's like asking whether you can run HURD as a normal user :p
[13:14] <Keybuk> temoto: yes, in the man page
[13:14] <Keybuk> man 5 init
[13:14] <temoto> Great, thanks.