[00:05] <Riddell> don't think so Lex79
[00:05] <Lex79> ok, I'm going to do that
[00:06] <nixternal> ooh, that is pretty nice
[00:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: freeflying was never member according to kubuntu-members former members list, so I suppose he should apply for kubuntu membership
[00:42] <freeflying> apachelogger: how come I was never kubuntu membership?
[00:43] <apachelogger> freeflying: you are at least not appearing anywhere
[00:44] <apachelogger> maybe timeouts do not show up at all, but only manual deactivations
[00:44] <apachelogger> freeflying: are you sure you were kubuntu member?
[00:44] <freeflying> apachelogger: sure
[00:44] <apachelogger> well, ok, if Riddell and you are positive on that I assume reinstatement is appropriate
[00:46] <apachelogger> seele, Riddell, JontheEchidna, Nightrose: ^ I am readding freeflying (lp:~zhengpeng-hou) as kubuntu-member
[00:46] <apachelogger> freeflying: done
[00:46] <freeflying> apachelogger: thx
[00:46] <apachelogger> yw
[00:51] <Lex79> colibri needs review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/colibri
[00:52] <jjesse> good evening ever since updating to the most recent beta choqok crashes every time i start it up, it launches and starts showing me my tweets and dents, anyone else havign issues with choqok?
[00:52] <freeflying> jjesse: seems works fine here
[00:54] <Riddell> I think there's a new choqok we should be packaging anyway
[00:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: you can revert the topic now
[00:56] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic restore
[00:57] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic del 5
[00:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: better?
[00:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: is Quintasan still not confirmed?
[00:59] <Riddell> I've not heard anything
[01:00] <apachelogger> hm, nixternal gave a +1 which should result in quorum
[01:00]  * apachelogger goes poking
[01:05] <jjesse> freeflying: what do you use as your notifcation libnotify or knotify?
[01:06] <freeflying> jjesse: libnotify
[01:08] <daskreech> is http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Having_a_tidy_systray from Ubuntu's prodding ?
[01:11] <apachelogger> daskreech: more like kde's inovatitionism :P
[01:11] <apachelogger> though without canonical that would never have reached a cross-desktop span
[01:13] <jjesse> freeflying: hrmm using knotify myself wonder whats going on
[01:16] <daskreech> apachelogger: Well we know we have the better tech but as I recall there was some recoil when it was suggested that Gnome actually make use of it
[01:17] <apachelogger> yeah, though gnome, so I have been told, was not too motivated
[01:17] <daskreech> koffice-kde4: Depends: krita-kde4 (>= 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3)
[01:17] <apachelogger> canonical however considered it a good idea and is now brining it to gnome
[01:17] <daskreech> apachelogger: that's all I was asking :)
[01:18] <apachelogger> and honest to whatever you believe in most, having the spec applied acrross desktops makes much more sense from a user POV
[01:18] <apachelogger> hence I find this step very important
[01:18] <daskreech> apachelogger: of course that's why there is a xdg in the first place
[01:18] <daskreech> I wish that the stupid *dm would follow a spec
[01:19] <daskreech> Really annoying to lose the abilty to control the computer just because of a default DM
[01:19] <apachelogger> dms are a general problem
[01:20] <apachelogger> AFAIK both kdm and gdm are based upon xdm, but what they stack upon the xdm base is so no standardizied it is quite horirblye actually
[01:20] <daskreech> Which is why I wish someone (by someone I mean Gnome and KDE of course) would sit down and propose a standard
[01:21] <ScottK> So clearly we need dmdm
[01:21] <daskreech> theming and all that junk can be tossed out. Just make computer wide crucial actions able to be passed along in some fashion
[01:21]  * apachelogger thinks that theming might be the easier thing there
[01:22] <daskreech> I don't care about the theme possibiltes
[01:22] <apachelogger> just propose some base spec which both kdm and gdm must comply to, then define some fallback rules and all is done
[01:22] <apachelogger> makes gdm users able to use kdm themes and vice versa
[01:23] <daskreech> sharing themes is a noble win for the fashion concious consumer but having to logout to get a hibernate button is just plain stupid
[01:23] <apachelogger> well
[01:23] <apachelogger> that is more of a structural problem inhereted by Xorg
[01:24] <apachelogger> X needs to be run as root
[01:24] <apachelogger> hence kdm needs to be run as root to invoke X
[01:24] <daskreech> yes but KDE loaded from KDM can shutdown etc and Gnome loaded from GDM can do so as well
[01:24] <apachelogger> of course X running as a different user than the desktop session within the X makes it kind of difficult to streamline deskto -> dm communication
[01:25] <daskreech> but KDE from GDM? No no no computer control for you
[01:25] <daskreech> You get logout and that is all
[01:25] <apachelogger> yeah, but that is difficult to spec, because the shotdown systems of KDE and GNOME are not very similar to my knowledge
[01:26] <apachelogger> daskreech: take a look at the ksmserver code and the kdm one
[01:26] <apachelogger> ksmserver really just emits a signal to kdm that lets it do the shutdown
[01:26] <apachelogger> ultimately that signal would be done via dbus, hence being dm agnostic
[01:26] <daskreech> apachelogger: which is why I said allow a passthrough
[01:27] <apachelogger> BUT, dbus depends on hal and hal depends on a load of crap to start, thus using dbus here would prevent early startup of the dekstop manager
[01:27] <apachelogger> AFIAK again
[01:28] <apachelogger> daskreech: I think that is not posixy
[01:28] <daskreech> either have KDM and GDM agree on common functionality and then have a proxy that passes on requests from the DE or have them turn over control to a second party system which gets decided by the De at init time
[01:28] <apachelogger> same reason you cannot invoke halt without sudo halt
[01:29] <apachelogger> daskreech: a common system creates cpu overhead most likely (see earlier discussion about unavoidable more calculations with gzip compressed content on a web server
[01:29] <daskreech> Yeah it's an annoying issue but I guess I'm just more annoyed that no one even thinks it's an issue
[01:29] <apachelogger> daskreech: well, from a regular user perspective it is not much of an issue
[01:30] <apachelogger> since she will either install kubuntu or ubuntu, hence hend up with a desktop fitting the dm
[01:30] <apachelogger> but I understand you point, and I also find that limiation rather silly
[01:30] <daskreech> apachelogger: under the assumption of a home type user
[01:30] <jjesse> this may be the most technical converstation i've seen here in awhile
[01:30] <jjesse> and i don't understand most of it :)
[01:31] <daskreech> jjesse: Short break Down is X Sucks
[01:31] <jjesse> haha
[01:32] <apachelogger> I wouldnt even say that, X mostly is just bound to limiations of a plain/orignal posix system
[01:32] <daskreech> It's amazing at how I can distill most reasons for why Linux is horrible to use down to Propietary Software, Hardware manufacturers and X suck
[01:32] <apachelogger> which requires X to run as root, whereas modern linux system can actually hand X being run a user (hence X having user space permission sets)
[01:32]  * daskreech ponders a DM built on wayland
[01:33] <apachelogger> daskreech: X is just horrible to hack at
[01:33] <daskreech> X.org is just the most perplexing aspect of a FOSS ecosystem to me
[01:33] <apachelogger> possibly much more than the kernel even
[01:33] <apachelogger> if you break something  in X the likelyhood of affecting a lot of people is a lot higher
[01:33] <daskreech> I know! and in a FOSS framework for any other possible aspect X would have been forked
[01:34] <apachelogger> also I personally find that graphics stuff a lot more complex than regular OS work
[01:34] <daskreech> But in the entire multiverse of FOSS X stands as the only program that does not have a reasonable illusion of choice
[01:34] <apachelogger> daskreech: it does not need to be forked, in fact xorg already is a fork :P
[01:34] <daskreech> You use X and you like it. There are no alternatives
[01:34] <apachelogger> xorg is a fork of xfree
[01:35] <apachelogger> daskreech: because X is considerable complex structure
[01:35] <daskreech> I know and it will get better but that doesn't change that it sucks
[01:35] <apachelogger> implementing a competior from scratch is a real PITA
[01:35] <daskreech> apachelogger: by that do you mean X11 ?
[01:35] <apachelogger> X11 is a standard or something
[01:35] <jjesse> i wrote one while i was sitting here :)
[01:35] <apachelogger> Xfree86 is the implementation X.org was forked from
[01:35] <daskreech> Exactly with for all purposes a single implementation
[01:36] <kallecarl> nixternal: all done documents edited and looked at after "make all" . You wrote "validate" docs. How is .../scripts/validate.sh run against docs?
[01:36] <daskreech> which in the framework of how FOSS normally works is just astounding to me
[01:36] <apachelogger> well, you only have one intel driver at this point :P
[01:37] <daskreech> You have two nvidia and ATI drivers
[01:39] <apachelogger> well, that is because of prop vs free
[01:40] <apachelogger> not competior vs competior
[01:40] <daskreech> if Intel made a long term lets break everything policy intel's drivers would fork
[01:40] <apachelogger> some stuff is just awful to work on
[01:40] <daskreech> I know that :(
[01:40] <apachelogger> hence there will be no forking
[01:40] <apachelogger> I doubt that linux woud be forked
[01:40] <daskreech> and as I said there will be a time it gets better
[01:40] <apachelogger> much more likely it is that people move to bsd or other free OS
[01:40] <daskreech> apachelogger: But you have a choice of BSD
[01:40] <daskreech> and haiku
[01:40] <daskreech> and HURD
[01:40] <daskreech> or as it's commonly known HU HU HU HURD
[01:40] <kallecarl> and Windows 7
[01:40] <daskreech> kallecarl: Speaking in terms of FOSS ecosystem
[01:40] <kallecarl> i know couldn't resist
[01:40] <apachelogger> only a couple of months until win7 will be gpled
[01:40] <apachelogger> because some essential part of the kernel is identified to violate the gpl or something :P
[01:40] <kallecarl> in this case, what does gpl stand for?
[01:40] <daskreech> but even if you choose Postgresql with nginx nd Ruby on BSD over mysql with apache and python on Linux on both of them you get X.org
[01:40] <daskreech> cause there is no choice
[01:40] <kallecarl> good ph..kg luck
[01:41] <apachelogger> daskreech: you can use xfree86 :P
[01:41] <jjesse> kallecarl:  i think you can just do the validate.sh and then the doc you want to validate against
[01:41] <daskreech> kallecarl: MS shall feel the force of our lawyers!!!
[01:41] <daskreech> I should see when they last made a release
[01:41] <apachelogger> not that it would be better, because it applies the same stupid basic paradigms crated like 20 years ago
[01:41] <kallecarl> jjesse: thanks
[01:41] <apachelogger> but then, so does the very core of openoffice and no one is complaining there
[01:42] <kallecarl> I'll try it
[01:42] <daskreech> apachelogger: but the relative spec that's built against is Documents and ODF noticeably for which there are alternatives
[01:42] <daskreech> one of which will not install due to KDE 4.4 b1 on Koala
[01:42] <daskreech> koffice-kde4: Depends: krita-kde4 (>= 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3)
[01:42]  * daskreech brings the chan back to Doktoring
[01:46] <apachelogger> daskreech: those are pardigms, not specs
[01:46] <apachelogger> well odf is a spec, but it is based on a pardigm
[01:46] <apachelogger> the paradigm of having documents stored digiatally
[01:46] <apachelogger> with formatting and all
[01:46] <apachelogger> X is implementing a paradigm, it just leaks competing implemations for that pardigm
[01:46] <apachelogger> osx doesnt use X AFAIK, so they created a competing implementation, the thin gis that it is just not free hence no option for a free OS
[01:46] <daskreech> and Windows has their own I know
[01:46] <daskreech> again I was speaking within the constraints of choices for a FOSS multiverse
[01:46] <apachelogger> well, windows is not posix based, but yes they also implement a visual paradigm
[01:52] <daskreech> right if we are speaking of paradigms ;)
[01:54] <apachelogger> well, if we are talking at stack based implementations than whatever osx uses is as clsoe to a competitor to X as it gets
[01:55] <apachelogger> and as I said, implementing those  kinds of paradigms is a real PITA thus there will be no from-scratch implemenation be done unless absolutely necessary
[01:56] <apachelogger> which, considering the IMHO pretty obious superiority of osx' graphics stacks over X might not be that bad of an idea after all
[01:56] <apachelogger> then again you need to motivate the people and all
[01:56] <apachelogger> open source is a lot more complex than prop driven development IMHO
[01:57] <apachelogger> social stuff plays much a greater role, also you cannot tell people what to do
[01:57] <apachelogger> most of the time anyway :S
[02:03] <kallecarl> nixternal, jjesse: validated, proposed merge. Please let me know if anything didn't work properly.
[02:03] <daskreech> social stuff in FOSS rocks ;)
[02:03] <kallecarl> anti-social too
[02:19] <jjesse> kallecar reviewing now
[02:19] <jjesse> doh he left
[02:19] <jjesse> nixternal:  shouldn't we create a new entitity to refrence the change to the branding for &kde;
[02:32]  * ScottK notes the irony of Asiego blogging about the  importance of having one single location be "The KDE source code".
[02:58] <stackedagainst> hey, I'm hoping to get in touch with one of the devs
[02:59] <stackedagainst> there is a launchpad bug filed for the kubuntu ppa, bug 497562.  Is this part of a public testing call?
[03:01] <daskreech> stackedagainst: I'm not sure what you mean
[03:01] <daskreech> As long as you are using FOSS there is a call for the public to test
[03:02] <stackedagainst> daskreech: thanks for responding.  The bug squad policy is to close PPA bugs as invalid and notify the devs, unless its a public announced testing initiative of a big ubuntu team
[03:03] <stackedagainst> basically, I'm just notifying you guys about the PPA bug, because I dont think there is another way to file a bug against a PPA
[03:06] <ScottK> stackedagainst: We have a kubuntu-ppa project that takes such bugs, just move it there.
[03:07] <stackedagainst> ScottK: thank you, will do. :)
[03:12] <daskreech> stackedagainst: sorry one process was taking up 100% of my CPU another was taking 72% and a third was taking up 55% so in short everything froze
[03:12] <stackedagainst> daskreech: no problem, Scott helped me out :)
[03:12] <daskreech> Yeah caught up now
[03:25] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/CoreDevApplication
[03:27] <JontheEchidna> It wouldn't feel right to copy/paste endorsements from the kubuntu-dev app, and the feedback might change given the context anyways
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, apachelogger, Riddell, ^
[03:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How would you feel about copying and pasting it and then I'll edit it a bit?
[03:32] <JontheEchidna> as long as it's ok with the sponsor
[03:32] <JontheEchidna> which it is in this case :P
[03:32] <ScottK> OK with me.
[03:34] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: done
[03:36] <ScottK> looking
[03:37] <stackedagainst> thanks guys for the help with the bug, I've added a kubuntu PPA task to it
[03:39] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Done.
[03:39] <ScottK> Well done as soon as w.k.o catches up
[03:39] <JontheEchidna> heh
[05:05] <nixternal> hrmm, colibri doesn't work with 4.4, for me
[06:09] <nixternal> Riddell: what do you think about having a doc that we can place on the desktop/netbook workspace on a Live CD or after install to introduce people to what's going? I was thinking along the lines of a 'welcome-desktop' and 'welcome-netbook' instead of the 'about' one we used before
[06:10]  * nixternal beds
[06:56] <Quintasan> apachelogger: unfortunately not :/
[09:21]  * Lure gets some quassel crashes recently
[11:00] <ghostcube> ehlo :)
[11:14] <ghostcube> guys http://blog.freenode.net/2009/11/testing-the-nets/
[12:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan_: congrats
[12:04] <apachelogger> jussi01: do you think meeting minutes would have use in general?
[12:04] <apachelogger> if so we probably should streamline the process a bit to make it less likely that no one does it ;)
[12:06] <jussi01> apachelogger: I think they should be done, yes. there is a team report thing that might be useful.
[12:07] <apachelogger> jussi01: mind digging it up?
[12:07]  * apachelogger notes that team reports != meeting minutes :P
[12:07] <jussi01> apachelogger: 1 min
[12:07] <apachelogger> actually
[12:07] <apachelogger> whatever happened to team reports
[12:07] <apachelogger> I remember we usually fighted to come up with some useful information every now and then for that :D
[12:07] <apachelogger> did they get abandonned?
[12:07] <jussi01> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
[12:07] <Lure> apachelogger: do you know who (beside Riddell) can increase kubuntu-ppa/beta (we are at 3GB with 1 GB cap)
[12:08] <jussi01> apachelogger: theres a template there that makes it a bit easier
[12:08] <apachelogger> Lure: Riddell cannot, only soyuz devs can
[12:09] <apachelogger> Lure: just post a question like https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/73122 regarding soyuz
[12:09] <apachelogger> possibly you could also try finding someone in #launchpad to speed up the processing a bit ;)
[12:10] <apachelogger> jussi01: I dont want to be bitchy again, but having that kind of stuff done in a wiki is just horrible :P
[12:11] <apachelogger> one could propably master up a more efficient approach in rails in like half an hour
[12:11] <Lure> apachelogger: thanks, done: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/94361
[12:13] <jussi01> apachelogger: well... Im guessing patches are welcome :P
[12:13]  * jussi01 hugs apachelogger
[12:13] <apachelogger> jussi01: well, obviously that would only be used if done inside lp
[12:13] <apachelogger> and after looking at the code once I do not feel like doing that again for the next year or so :P
[12:14] <apachelogger> kdelibs is less scary
[12:16] <jussi01> apachelogger: I think nhandler is the guy you want to talk to about it in anycase...
[12:16]  * apachelogger also finds it rahter silly that the wiki pages are themed inline
[12:16] <apachelogger> my lecturer on internet and nu media would go all mad when he saw that :P
[12:17] <apachelogger> jussi01: yeah, so it seems :)
[12:18] <apachelogger> ulysses__: you should really report a bug about the stasks vs. smooth tasks
[12:18] <ulysses__> apachelogger: I'll do it
[12:22] <jussi01> I thought smooth tasks didnt allow the icon only in the systray...
[12:22] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[12:23] <jussi01> this 4.4 beta is somewhat annoying tbh... I guess Ill get used to it though
[12:29] <ulysses__> bug 497742
[12:32] <Quintasan|Szel> Yeah! I iz MOTU
[12:32] <ulysses__> Congratulation Quintasan|Szel
[12:35] <Quintasan|Szel> hurr, that damned wireless
[12:40] <Riddell> Lure: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/94262
[12:40] <Riddell> ug, I hurt, back to bed for me
[12:41] <Lure> Riddell: maybe we get twice the space now that we have two open questions ;-)
[12:41] <Riddell> :)
[12:52] <freeflying> Quintasan|Szel: welcome then :)
[12:56] <Quintasan|Szel> so I need to find a minion
[12:56] <Quintasan|Szel> :3
[12:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: where comes the hurtery from?
[13:08] <apachelogger> Xand3r_: ping ping ping
[13:10] <apachelogger> Xand3r_: about krandr from 4.4 ... I actually still had the sources around and svn upped them ... to build you'd go mkdir build; cd build; cmake .. -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr && cd kcontrol/randr && make && sudo make install
[13:11] <apachelogger> it is super important that you go to the randr dir before make, otherwise the build will fail due to api incompability of 4.4 stuff on 4.3
[13:12] <apachelogger> Xand3r_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/src/workspace-krandr-r1063223.tar.lzma
[13:17]  * ghostcube wonders why we congrat Quintasan  o.o
[13:17] <ghostcube> :)
[13:18] <Quintasan_> :O
[13:18] <ghostcube> :D
[13:18] <ghostcube> :P
[13:19] <apachelogger> Quintasan_: there you have someone to make a minion
[13:19] <ghostcube> Quintasan congrats just joking :P
[13:19] <ghostcube> höhö
[13:19] <Quintasan> so, aboard the MOTU ship :P
[13:20] <ghostcube> :)
[13:21] <apachelogger> now whom did I wanna write a mail?
[13:21]  * apachelogger is not much use today
[13:21] <ghostcube> steve jobs .. he should lend me all his money
[13:22] <ghostcube> o.o
[13:22] <Quintasan> like what
[13:22] <Quintasan> "Hey Steve, borrow me all your money so I can waste it on girls and alcohol"
[13:22] <ghostcube> apachelogger: heh you testet ssl :) i think thi is cool step to get freenode more nuke free
[13:22] <ghostcube> nah
[13:22] <ghostcube> steve give me your money my car needs love
[13:22] <apachelogger> ahh
[13:22] <ghostcube> my flat needs love
[13:22] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for apachelogger
[13:22]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to apachelogger.
[13:22] <apachelogger> indeed
[13:22] <apachelogger> welll, not steve
[13:22] <Quintasan> apachelogger: there you go
[13:23] <apachelogger> but mark
[13:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: thx
[13:23] <apachelogger> ghostcube: I shall feel more secure with ssl really
[13:24] <ghostcube> :|
[13:25] <ghostcube> this sarkasm is not good for you
[13:25] <Quintasan> http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/93/advicecolumn.jpg
[13:25] <Quintasan> lol just lol
[13:25] <ghostcube> it will eat you up
[13:25] <Quintasan> sarKasm version 4.4
[13:26] <ghostcube> Quintasan nice article
[13:26] <ghostcube> :D
[13:27] <Quintasan> That's just awesome, this guy failed so much it was a win in the end
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Could you put gtk-qt-engine on the sync blacklist and delete it again?
[13:35] <amichair> Quintasan: congrats :-)
[13:45] <Quintasan> amichair: thanks
[13:56] <markey> hey guys
[13:56] <markey> got a question:
[13:56] <markey> Karmic currently has libMTP version 0.3
[13:56] <markey> there is 1.0 out in the meantime
[13:56] <markey> I need to test a bug in that lib, to make sure it's not Amarok's fault
[13:56] <markey> has anyone got a package of it? :)
[13:56] <markey> 0.3 is ancient
[13:57] <Mamarok> markey: it is in lucid, it would need to be backported to Karmic
[13:57] <markey> if anyone could do that, it would make me very happy
[13:57] <markey> cause these bugs are very grave
[13:58] <markey> can make Amarok freeze several minutes
[13:58] <markey> (and even crash your MTP device)
[13:58] <Mamarok> and is the potential cause for MTP problems in a few other bugs
[13:59] <bbigras> is there any progress or interest in having an updated package to fix the MALLOC_CHECK_ problem?
[14:01] <markey> bbigras: that issue also is very grave... causes countless crashes
[14:02] <markey> should really try to get an updated GLIBC asap
[14:02] <bbigras> markey: yes, I feel bad for the guys triaging bugs
[14:02] <markey> really, it causes crazy memory corruptions
[14:02] <markey> makes your head smoke
[14:02] <bbigras> it's a bit of a pita to test 4.4 with it
[14:03] <markey> if possible in any way, I would recommend that Karmic gets that an update too
[14:03] <markey> (dunno if that requires building $WORLD, or not)
[14:04] <markey> the bug might theoretically be exploitable (though I haven't read of an exploit yet)
[14:04] <bbigras> yes it would be nice to have it for karmic too, that's what I use to work on KDE
[14:04] <agateau> Riddell: ping
[14:04] <Mamarok> bbigras: the ubuntu devs know about, cjwatson promised to have a look at getting the new glibc version in and backported
[14:05] <bbigras> Mamarok: nice, thanks
[14:07] <Riddell> agateau: hi
[14:08] <agateau> Riddell: I'd like to request an SRU for gwenview ( #497769 )
[14:08] <agateau> mmm, the bot did not get this one, bug #497769
[14:09] <agateau> Riddell: what's the best way to do this?
[14:10] <Riddell> agateau: find someone to package it and upload it, then subscribe ubuntu-sru and pitti will get to it at some point
[14:10] <agateau> Riddell: ok, I'll have a look at packaging it, thanks!
[14:11] <Riddell> agateau: sorry I seem to be ill today and not in a state of mind to help
[14:11] <agateau> Riddell: sure, no problem
[14:11] <agateau> Riddell: I should be able to do it myself
[14:13] <markey> apachelogger: ping
[14:13] <maco2> Quintasan: hey, congrats!
[14:13] <apachelogger> maco2: pong
[14:13] <apachelogger> eh markey: pong
[14:13] <apachelogger> maco2: though, ahoy, did you get anywhere with kmess upstream?
[14:13] <markey> apachelogger: do you happen to have a backport of libMTP 1.0 (or 1.0.1) for Karmic somewhere?
[14:13]  * apachelogger feels he asked that at some point already
[14:13] <markey> I really need that urgently
[14:14] <Quintasan> maco2: Thanks! :D
[14:14] <apachelogger> markey: nope
[14:14] <markey> 0.3 is so buggy it can crash your MTP device
[14:14] <apachelogger> Quintasan: ^
[14:14] <apachelogger> wanna backport?
[14:14] <Mamarok> Quintasan: you would do us a big favor
[14:14]  * apachelogger is writing a super important mail to the dictator right now :P
[14:14] <markey> check this:
[14:14] <Riddell> markey, apachelogger: libmtp should be in stating or beta or something
[14:14] <markey> PTP_ERROR_IO: Trying again after re-initializing USB interface
[14:14] <markey> usb_claim_interface(): Bad file descriptor
[14:14] <markey> LIBMTP PANIC: Could not open session on device
[14:14] <Riddell> staging
[14:14] <markey> after that, I had to hard-reset my Sansa player
[14:15] <markey> (and it froze Amarok for 40 seconds)
[14:15] <apachelogger> rockbox ftw
[14:15] <markey> Riddell: can you explain to me how to get it?
[14:15] <markey> apachelogger: no, the Sansa actually has really good firmware by default
[14:15] <Quintasan> I disapprove of Sansa
[14:15] <markey> as opposed to most other players
[14:15] <Quintasan> Rockbox > * :P
[14:15] <apachelogger> I know, I have some sansa thingy too
[14:16] <Riddell> markey: sorry ill, back to snoozing now
[14:16] <markey> I _love_ the device :)
[14:16] <apachelogger> but srsly ever since I flashed it with rockbox I would not even think about going back
[14:16] <Quintasan> Riddell: so no need to backport it?
[14:16] <apachelogger> rockbox is just so flexible in about every aspect
[14:16] <markey> note: not all Sansa's are the same. I have a "Sansa Clip"
[14:16]  * Quintasan hugs his Sansa E260 with Air theme
[14:16] <maco2> apachelogger: no, i have to check with them again. i was in "ahhh must study to pass finals" mode, but exams are done now, so will try again. the upstream dev they said was most likely to know was *also* busy that day
[14:16] <Quintasan> Riddell: no need to backport then?
[14:17] <apachelogger> markey: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmtp
[14:17] <markey> apachelogger: thanks :)
[14:17] <apachelogger> underneat the version history for official ubuntu stuff you will find a list of packages in a ppa
[14:17] <Mamarok> Quintasan: rockbox doesn't work for all devices, libmtp would really be nice to have, and we could at least test
[14:17] <apachelogger> markey: so if it was in some ppa or the backports repo it would always show up there
[14:17] <apachelogger> in this particular case we seem to have 1.0.1 in the beta ppa
[14:18] <Mamarok> apachelogger: you sure? I only see it in Lucid
[14:18] <apachelogger> underneath the offical versions!
[14:19] <Mamarok> cause 4.4 beta comes with Qt 4.6, an even bigger problem :(
[14:19] <apachelogger> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/beta/ubuntu karmic main
[14:19] <apachelogger> add that
[14:19] <apachelogger> then run sudo apt-get install libmtp8 libmtp-dev mtp-tools
[14:19] <apachelogger> then remove above line again
[14:20] <apachelogger> no need to upgrade to kde 4.4 ;)
[14:20] <Mamarok> yep, thanks, I didn't see the link earlier :)
[14:20] <apachelogger> or you download the debs manually
[14:20] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/beta/+packages?field.name_filter=mtp&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
[14:20] <apachelogger> at the very least you need libmtp8 and -dev
[14:21] <apachelogger> maco2: oh, ok :)
[14:24] <markey> brb
[14:25] <Quintasan> What's with my connection today, grrr
[14:36] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That (gtk-qt-engine) needs an archive admin with shell acess (e.g. Riddell).
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> it's all black magic to me ;-)
[14:45] <Riddell> wk
[14:52] <ghostcube> hmmm i think the splits wont happen on the new testnet
[14:52] <ghostcube> cause different ports
[15:02] <rgreening> did virtuoso not be added to beta backports?
[15:10] <rgreening> Lex79: ^
[15:17] <ulysses__> Hello, I'm working on bug 497742
[15:17] <ulysses__> Currently I want to write the control file. My question is, what should I write as build depends?
[15:22] <rgreening> anyone else having compositing failing on KDE 4.4 beta1?
[15:23] <Quintasan> ulysses__: don't bother, I did the stasks package so I will replace it right away
[15:24] <Quintasan> ulysses__: or hell, if you do it I can upload it now :P
[15:24] <ScottK> rgreening: Known issue for some cards.
[15:24] <ulysses__> Quintasan: I'm just learning the packaging from Ubuntu Wiki :/
[15:24] <Quintasan> ulysses__:  pkg-kde-tools, kdelibs5-dev, kdebase-workspace-dev
[15:25] <Quintasan> ulysses__: and in debian/rules
[15:25] <Quintasan> ulysses__: http://pastebin.com/f7f2ae98d
[15:25] <Quintasan> since we use pkg-kde-tools for plasmoids etc.
[15:25] <rgreening> ScottK: hmm... for Intel ? wow... that's a bad sign
[15:25] <rgreening> :)
[15:27] <Xand3r> apachelogger: hey have you some time for me? #kde and #kde-devel are ignoring me.
[15:27] <Quintasan> ulysses__: I'm not busy so feel free to poke me if you have any problems
[15:27] <Quintasan> ulysses__: are you using pbuilder yet?
[15:28] <ScottK> Quintasan: Congratulations.
[15:28] <Quintasan> ScottK: Thanks :)
[15:28] <ulysses__> Quintasan: No, I'm trying to make the packagae from scratch https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20from%20Scratch
[15:29] <ScottK> Quintasan: Now that you can upload, kgraphviewer, plasma-widget-mail, and kopete-cryptography all need to be switched to boost1.40 from boost1.38 (and are in Universe)
[15:29] <Quintasan> ulysses__: Pbuilder is used to testbuild packages, so you can check what build-dependecies you missed and what files are not installed
[15:30] <Quintasan> ScottK: okay, I'll do it right away
[15:30] <tsimpson> figuring out the build-depends takes digging around, trial and error.
[15:30] <tsimpson> kdelibs5-dev is a good start though
[15:35] <Quintasan> ScottK: also, do I need to add some sort of entry to dput or I just upload package without specifing upload destination?
[15:36] <ScottK> Quintasan: The default is to upload to Ubuntu, but you will want to change that so you don't accidentally upload something to the archive that you intended for a PPA.
[15:38] <refic> how's lucid today?
[15:41] <Quintasan> ScottK: one more thing, changelog should point lucid or karmic?
[15:42] <Quintasan> oh wait 1.40 means lucid
[15:42] <Quintasan> hurr
[16:10] <Quintasan> ScottK: kgraphviewer uploaded
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> grats Quintasan
[16:13] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: thanks
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> Any core dev up for sponsoring kdebase-runtime from bzr and http://jmthomas.toniox.org/phonon-backends_4.3.80-0ubuntu1.dsc ?
[16:18] <Lex79> Quintasan: congrats ! :)
[16:19] <Quintasan1> Lex79: thanks :)
[16:20] <Quintasan1> I just don't get whats with my connection :/
[16:21] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: did you reply? my connection really sucks today
[16:21] <JontheEchidna> reply to what?
[16:22] <Quintasan> oh nice, my message didnt get send
[16:22] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.com/m2eb4fbb6 <-- what's wrong, I'm doing debuild
[16:22] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> oh, you need pkg-kde-tools 0.5 to use dh --with kde
[16:23] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'll get it.
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Thanks. Thanks for getting Qt sponsored too
[16:24] <ScottK> No problem. Glad to do it.
[16:25] <JontheEchidna> it's all just a bit frustrating
[16:25] <ScottK> Understand.
[16:25] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: when you have time http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/colibri
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> Sure
[16:27] <Lex79> thanks
[16:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Is kcm-phonon-xine in the archive (and in Main) yet?
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: split from kdebase-runtime and -runtime-data
[16:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Yes, but has it landed in Main?  rmadison doesn't know of it yet.
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> It's not been uploaded yet
[16:30] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How about if we do that one first so we don't break installability?
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah. I suppose the order I requested them in is wrong :P
[16:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'd prefer to see if the current armel build for runtime succeeds before we upload runtime again
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> Ok
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: your package needs a build-depend on pkg-kde-tools
[16:38] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: build fine here without pkg-kde-tools
[16:39] <Lex79> iirc no warning and no errors
[16:39] <nixternal> maco: how can I get someone to be a mod for our loco's forum?
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> The --with kde requires files from pkg-kde-tools
[16:40] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: for what? for building package or for others stuff ?
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> For --with-kde to work pkg-kde-tools must be present
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> while it will build without --with-kde, --with kde provides the default CMake flags that debian/kubuntu use
[16:42] <Lex79> uhm ok I will add it
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> The package loooks fine otherwise
[16:44] <nixternal> maco: nevermind
[16:45] <apachelogger> Xand3r: I am leaving for AVATAR in a bit
[16:49] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks, reuploaded
[16:56] <ghostcube> apachelogger: take a cam with you
[16:56] <ghostcube> i want a copy :P
[16:58] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: runtime failed on armel again.  Would you please consider if you have ideas how to fix it before you uplaod: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-runtime/4:4.3.80-0ubuntu8/+build/1396928/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.kdebase-runtime_4:4.3.80-0ubuntu8_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:01] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Uploading 0ubuntu9 will fix that. The phonon stuff was never removed from the .install.armel files
[17:01] <Lex79> ScottK: did you try to remove kdebase-runtime.install.armel from the package or edit that ?
[17:01] <Quintasan> ScottK: I think we are missing few files to kopete-cryptography to build, kleopatra includes to be exact, cmake fails to find them and kdepimlibs5-dev are installed
[17:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Cool.
[17:01] <JontheEchidna> but now that we build phonon support again, it'll all be there
[17:01] <ScottK> Lex79: I did not.  This was upload a long time ago, I just retried it today
[17:02] <ScottK> Quintasan: Not sure on that one.  kleopatra is in Universe, so maybe something gets left out.
[17:10] <Quintasan> HURR
[17:12] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: kdemultimedia needs changing in bzr, still depends on mplayer instead of mplayer OR mplayer-nogui
[17:12] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: it should be mplayer | mplayer-nogui?
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> maybe mplayer-nogui | mplayer, to give nogui preference
[17:13] <Quintasan> I'll change and push
[17:13] <JontheEchidna> thx
[17:14] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: UNRELEASED or lucid normally?
[17:14]  * Quintasan is always confused
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> UNRELEASED, unless you're uploading it right then
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> the upload sponsor will change to lucid and upload to ubuntu
[17:16] <ScottK> Quintasan: Also mplayerthumbs source needs to be removed. 1.2-kde4.3.2-0ubuntu1 is still there.
[17:17] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: pushed
[17:17] <Quintasan> ScottK: how come? it grabs kdemultimedia source, at least in karmic
[17:17] <Quintasan> ulysses__: how are stasks going?
[17:18] <ScottK> It used to be a separate source package.  That's still there and needs to be removed because we build the binary out of kdemultimedia now.
[17:18] <ulysses__> Quintasan: Ah, I can't understand the method of packaging :(
[17:18] <Quintasan> ulysses__: where are you stuck?
[17:18] <ScottK> Quintasan: Try rmadison mplayerthumbs and see the results.
[17:19] <Quintasan> ScottK: nice tool, thanks :)
[17:19] <Quintasan> ScottK: How do I remove things? I can do it myself or I need to poke someone?
[17:19] <ScottK> Quintasan: You can rmadison -u debian [PACKAGE] to see what is there.
[17:20] <ulysses__> Quintasan: Last time I tried to write the control file, no I read Herbert's book, the Dune :P
[17:20] <ScottK> Quintasan: You file a bug asking for removal and subscribe ubuntu-archive.  There's a wiki page somewhere that describes it.
[17:20] <ScottK> Quintasan: Alternatively ask Riddell and he'll just do it sometimes, but that's not the official procedure.
[17:20] <Quintasan> ScottK: okay will get to it asap
[17:21] <ScottK> Quintasan: Make it clear you only want source removed, not binary
[17:21] <Quintasan> ulysses__: I'm pretty sure I gave you exact dependecies to be put into control file, what's the problem now?
[17:23] <ulysses__> Quintasan: Sorry, i had no more pleasure
[17:24] <Quintasan> ulysses__: okay, I no pressure, I just wanted to know whether you are working on it
[17:24] <Quintasan> ulysses__: I wanted to do it after my MOTU approval but I won't take away your work :P
[17:26]  * Quintasan hopes to go to next UDS
[18:14] <ejat> Cannot load part for Calendar. Could not find plugin 'korganizerpart' for application 'kontact' <-- any info about this?
[18:27] <Lex79> ejat: it's disabled because fails to build from source in beta1, we will try to build it again for beta2
[18:28] <ejat> thanks Lex79
[18:28] <Lex79> no problem
[18:28] <ejat> is there somewhere showing the timeline for KDE SC 4.4 ?
[18:29]  * ejat discover its kinda lag a bit while typing ...
[18:30] <ejat> its a bugs or desktop effect (kwin) ?
[18:32] <Lex79> for timeline here: http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.4_Release_Schedule
[18:35] <ejat> luckily beta 2 is on dec 22nd
[18:36] <ejat> a few day to wait :) hope to get the improvement ..
[19:48] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, hi :D how are you
[19:52] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How's the runtime update coming?
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Dunno, I was waiting for you to sponsor it :P
[19:53] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you give it to me?  I remember just the phonon backends one.
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> It's in bzr
[19:54] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you testbuild, etc?
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> yeah, testbuild and running
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> it's in -ninjas too
[19:54] <ScottK> OK
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> Anybody else noticed that bazaar.launchpad.net is being hella slow?
[19:57] <ScottK> Noticing it right now.
[19:57] <ScottK> (trying to pull your runtime update)
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> all hail the might lunchpad
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> *mighty
[19:58] <Daskreech> MMMM a pad of Lunch
[20:00] <Mamarok> lunch? where's lunch? nomnom
[20:10] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: "bazaar.launchpad.net is down, but being fixed"
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> figures
[20:11] <JontheEchidna> I'll pastebin the diff.gz, un-gz'd
[20:12] <Lex79> oh, figures is for -> I see -> I understand ? :)
[20:13] <JontheEchidna> Not exactly. It's more like "Yeah, it makes sense that that happened"
[20:14] <Lex79> ah ok :)
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> D:
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> .!!!~~~~>Bat paste: pasted at http://paste.ubuntu.comhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/openid/login?next=/
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> ;_;
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/f2c49375
[20:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Looking
[20:20] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Is that the full debian dir?
[20:20] <JontheEchidna> thinking about it a debdiff would have probably been better
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/f2ede7975
[20:22] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Why did you drop libx11-dev
[20:22]  * JontheEchidna looks
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> oh, Lex did that
[20:22] <Lex79> ScottK: it's a dependency of libqt4-dev now
[20:23] <Lex79> no need to keep
[20:23] <ScottK> Lex79: Not a reason to drop it.
[20:23] <ScottK> All the packages that configure looks for should be in build-dep
[20:23]  * ScottK will take that bit out
[20:25] <cragdor> Hi all, not sure if this is where to post this but can people with karmic, tell me if they have a file called Phonon-Xine.xine.conf? Apparently it holds the phonon config but i can't find it!
[20:25] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Why did kubuntu_12_arm_no_soprano.diff come back?
[20:25] <cragdor> Should exist in ~/.config/kde.org/Phonon-Xine.xine.conf
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: My mistake. I think that got deleted in bzr while I was working on things
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> but not from the debian dir I copied over to the source
[20:27] <ScottK> Also there's some sftp stuff in runtime-data
[20:28]  * ScottK removes that too
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> docs?
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> It actually does install the sftp docs without the build-dep
[20:31] <ScottK> Yes, it's docs.
[20:32] <ScottK> I already deleted it and I'm not going to worry about it for now since it's docs for something we aren't building.
[20:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you ever pester asac about libssh?
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> nope, will ping now
[20:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Uploaded.  Would you please update bzr to match the package once it comes back?
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> sure
[20:34] <ScottK> Thanks
[21:01]  * Quintasan goes to bed
[21:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: bzr's back up.  I went ahead and pushed the changes.
[21:01] <Quintasan> Night everyone
[21:01] <ScottK> Good night Quintasan
[22:25]  * nixternal kicks the snot out of LP and Bzr
[23:33] <Riddell> hmm, still no beta 2
[23:34] <dtchen> so, slightly-offtopic VCS question: is anyone seriously bothered by having to learn multiple VCSes?
[23:35] <maco> im not
[23:35] <maco> cvs, svn, bzr, git, hg....ive used those so far. for normal usage its all the same
[23:35] <maco> $VCS commit
[23:35] <maco> and if one of the latter 3: $VCS push
[23:35] <maco> woowee that's hard!
[23:36] <dtchen> right, for single tracking they're quite similar
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> I've used svn, bzr and git. I must say I'm not too fond of learning git
[23:36] <dtchen> KDE SC has moved to git, correct?
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> KDE is planning to move to git, but haven't as of yet
[23:37] <dtchen> it's still SVN currently?
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> haven't-> hasn't
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[23:37] <dtchen> (ugh, git is a huge win over SVN in that respect)
[23:38] <dtchen> merging in git can be quite pain{less,ful}
[23:39] <Sput> well, amarok and konversation have moved to git already :)
[23:39] <Sput> and other subprojects are preparing the move
[23:40] <maco> right now im the most git-experienced person where i work. that's saying something (about them, not me)
[23:42]  * Sput loves git
[23:42] <Sput> working with svn now feels like using notepad to write a program :>