[00:33] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, is there a way to set the master volume/mute from the command line, i.e. exactly like if I had used the multimedia keys to do it?
[00:43] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Either the amixer command if you want something scriptable, or the alsamixer ncurses app.
[00:44] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, will that work reliably and will it behave the same as the multimedia keys?  I have a fullscreen app that is capturing all the key events and I want a way to keep the audio buttons working
[00:47] <robert_ancell> hmm "amixer sset Master toggle works", what about volume...
[00:57] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I don't know amixer's flags very well atm, as I haven't yet really had to work with it.
[06:03] <pitti> Good morning
[08:26] <pitti> asac, lool: I just filed bug 497672 which is really just red tape (it's a trivial package MIR); do you have a minute to ack it?
[08:37] <seb128> good morning there
[08:42] <seb128> hi chrisccoulson
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:42] <lool> pitti: approved
[08:42] <pitti> lool: cheers
[08:42] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: good morning
[08:43] <seb128> hey lool pitti
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> good morning pitti
[08:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson: tired by good otherwise thanks
[08:43] <seb128> you?
[08:43] <lool> Hey seb128, pitti, chrisccoulson  :)
[08:43] <didrocks> godd morning pitti, seb128, chrisccoulson, lool :)
[08:43] <seb128> I went to bed at 3am again yesterday
[08:43] <lool> It's snowing nicely here
[08:43] <didrocks> good*
[08:43] <seb128> but tomorrow holidays!
[08:43] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:43] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:43] <pitti> seb128: ugh
[08:43] <lool> seb128: Same here :)
[08:43] <didrocks> lool: I'm stuck at Velizy because of the snow apparentely :/
[08:43] <lool> morning didrocks :)
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm quite tired too. spent most of last night trying to get my broadband working, after it decided it no longer wanted to connect
[08:43] <pitti> lool: ice-cold here, too *shiver*
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> hey lool and didrocks :)
[08:44] <lool> pitti: That's because your window is open!!
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i just had to scrape ice off my car
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> although it's probably still colder where you are ;)
[08:44] <pitti> lool: s/here/out there/ :-)
[08:46] <seb128> ice on the car there too
[08:46] <seb128> - 6°C
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure it was that cold here
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> i'm hoping it snows later (after I get home though)
[08:47] <seb128> snow for the weekend would be good
[08:47] <bryce> relatively warm here (I've got windows open due to excess heat from computers)
[08:48] <pitti> seb128: we do :) http://www.intermobil.org/doris/net/kfz/kfz_cam_anzeige.xml?Back=../kfz/kfz_cam_auswahl.xml&OID=15308
[08:48] <seb128> pitti, oh, nice!
[08:48] <seb128> pitti, did you have snow yesterday already?
[08:48] <baptistemm> hello
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> bryce - do you have all 8 computers on?
[08:48] <baptistemm> good morning
[08:48] <seb128> lut baptistemm
[08:49] <pitti> seb128: we had some last weekend, but that one is fresh from last night
[08:49] <chrisccoulson> good morning baptistemm
[08:49] <bryce> 5
[08:49] <pitti> hm, my laptop hardly produces any heat..
[08:49] <seb128> pitti, ok, so it didn't fit well for your vac day
[08:49] <bryce> testing patch to reenable apport on xserver :-)
[08:49] <seb128> but winter only starts ;-)
[08:49] <pitti> seb128: oh, it did; in the morning I went for some christmas shopping, and house cleaning
[08:49] <pitti> bryce: yay!
[08:50] <pitti> bryce: I think I'll enable apport by default again after that; it's time
[08:50] <seb128> no it's not?
[08:50] <seb128> wait for after holidays break
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> pitti - will you be building a snowman this evening? :)
[08:50] <seb128> no point to stack hundred of crashers while everybody isa way
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok
[08:50] <seb128> well my opinion but I've mostly given up on reading bugs now anyway so I don't care a lot
[08:51] <seb128> I just feel that will add useless noise since nobody is around to do something of those
[08:51] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I can't, my grandpa celebrates his bday
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: true that, I didn't consider that
[08:55] <pitti> tseliot: do you know whether PowerMizer is enabled by default in the latest nvidia drivers, or if not, how to do that?
[08:56] <pitti> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=110949 has some suggestion, but I'm not sure whether that's the official way
[08:57] <pitti> ah, http://forums.opensuse.org/hardware/410089-nvidia-powermizer-how-tweak.html has some more details
[08:58] <tseliot> pitti: I spoke with Nvidia about this as I wanted to automatically configure that in Jockey but this is what they told me: https://pastebin.canonical.com/25863/
[08:59] <pitti> tseliot: right, I was wondering what to add to the jockey handler
[08:59]  * pitti has a work item for this
[08:59] <pitti> tseliot: oh, great
[08:59] <pitti> so if that's already enabled by default, then no reason to change it
[08:59] <tseliot> pitti: you have one less work item now ;)
[08:59] <tseliot> right
[09:04] <pitti> tseliot: can we add a dependency to acpid to nvidia-glx?
[09:05] <pitti> tseliot: acpi-support will disappear at some point, and you can uninstall it, so we shouldn't take it for granted that it's there
[09:14] <pitti> tseliot, bryce, tjaalton: I have a work item "test wacom" for desktop-lucid-xorg-halsectomy, but I don't actually have such a device; do you have one? would you take the WI?
[09:14] <pitti> if there's any udev rule writing/translation involved, I can do that of course
[09:19] <tseliot> pitti: sure, I can add that dependency
[09:20] <tseliot> pitti: I have a wacom tablet here
[09:24] <lool> pitti: Are the pm-utils-powersave-policy scripts run on boot as well?
[09:25] <pitti> lool: dk-power runs them when it starts, i. e. on desktop startup
[09:25] <lool> Ok
[09:25] <pitti> i. e. well after ureadahead and daemon startup
[09:25] <lool> I wasn't sure what was reading these on startup
[09:30] <tseliot> pitti: ^^
[09:31] <pitti> tseliot: ok to hand this WI off to you then?
[09:31] <tseliot> pitti: where's the blueprint? I would like to have a look at it
[09:32] <pitti> tseliot: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-halsectomy
[09:33] <tseliot> pitti: ok, I'll test wacom
[09:34] <pitti> tseliot: cheers; please ping me if it doesn't work
[09:34] <seb128> vuntz_, hey
[09:34] <tseliot> pitti: sure
[09:34] <seb128> vuntz_, did you see my pings yesterday?
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do we still want HAL support in gnome-power-manager? upstream provide a build option to enable HAL support now, and it is disabled by default
[09:49] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think we still need it for now, for backlight
[09:50] <pitti> many cards/drivers don't have xbacklight support yet
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i thought so. thanks
[09:50] <pitti> so we keep it as build option
[09:50] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think for lucid final we'll install hal by default and make it d-bus activated
[09:50] <pitti> then we just need to fix gpm to not trigger hal on startup, only when xbacklight is not available
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> i'll hopefully finish that later. i have to re-write the notify-osd patch, as the notify code in g-p-m changed a lot
[09:56] <pitti> oh, again?
[10:03]  * baptistemm removed hal after upgrade to lucid
[10:04] <baptistemm> perhaps I made a mistake
[10:04] <pitti> baptistemm: what's broken now?
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it's using the g-s-d style notifications now
[10:04] <baptistemm> It removed sound-juicer but that was expected. I admit I didn't check what is broken
[10:05] <baptistemm> as I don''t know what is backlight I didn't notice if it is broken or not :)
[10:06] <pitti> baptistemm: being able to change the backlight brightness with the Fn hotkeys
[10:06] <baptistemm> ha okay, I'll check
[10:07] <pitti> baptistemm: in general, if you didn't notice a change (except perhaps slightly faster boot), that's a good sign :)
[10:12] <tjaalton> pitti: you had an intel where it no longer worked, right?
[10:13] <pitti> tjaalton: correct
[10:13] <pitti> well, the hotkeys do work
[10:13] <pitti> since they are hardwired
[10:13] <pitti> but I don't get notifications for it any more
[10:13] <pitti> (not that I'd care much..)
[10:13] <tjaalton> my thinkpad works fine, don't know if it's different then
[10:13] <tjaalton> notifications and all
[10:16] <baptistemm> I do have a thinkpad t61 + intel 945, so we have the same hardware to test with ?
[10:16] <baptistemm> :)
[10:17] <tjaalton> mine is a X61 with 965, but close enough I think
[10:17] <tjaalton> the notifications are butt-ugly though, but I think that's on purpose :)
[10:17] <Krwlng> hi
[10:23] <mvo_> seb128: the problem with the "-" seems to be harden than expceted, maybe a bug is a good idea
[10:24] <seb128> mvo_, ok, will open one
[10:24] <mvo_> seb128: sorry for that, its a xapian thing
[10:24] <seb128> mvo_, or if it's too low priority and bug is only noise let's forget about it
[10:24] <seb128> it's a detail
[10:24] <mvo_> yeah, still :)
[10:24] <mvo_> should work!
[10:24] <seb128> ok, will open a bug
[10:24] <seb128> then you can do what you want from it ;-)
[10:24]  * seb128 hugs mvo_
[10:25] <mvo_> thanks, target, milestone, set priority to high
[10:25] <mvo_> and assign to you :P
[10:25] <seb128> lol
[10:25] <mvo_> no, just kidding :)
[10:25] <seb128> do you want a cookie and tea too?
[10:25] <mvo_> please :)
[10:25] <seb128> ;-)
[10:25]  * mvo_ hugs seb128
[10:25]  * seb128 hugs mvo_
[10:27] <seb128> mvo_, apt-xapian-index source?
[10:27] <mvo_> software-center I think
[10:27] <seb128> I was having the issue in synaptic
[10:27] <seb128> but as you want
[10:27] <mvo_> I may need to put some code there too for the indexing, but I think the tricky bit is the query
[10:28] <mvo_> right, synaptic is using the same QueryParser as s-c
[10:40] <seb128> mvo_, bug #497708
[10:53] <asac> pitti: i will do it when arriving at home
[10:53] <asac> so in 1.5h
[10:53]  * asac on vac ... but not really (today)
[10:54] <pitti> asac: lool already did it, but thanks
[13:36] <pitti> I need to disappear for some 2 hours for an appointment
[13:36] <seb128> pitti, see you later
[13:36] <kenvandine> later pitti
[14:13] <cassidy> any reason why humanity-icon-theme only ships svg of some size instead of a scalable version in svg and all the size in png as gnome-icon-theme does?
[14:26] <seb128> cassidy, I think that's wanted yet, mac_v might know why
[14:27] <seb128> mvo_, when installing binary-gui which depends on binary software install has 2 binary-gui lines, is that expected or is that buggy?
[14:27] <seb128> I would expect to have each line name reflecting the binary installed
[14:27] <mvo_> seb128: that sounds like a bug - that is s-c ?
[14:27] <seb128> or at least the second one to be binary-gui (binary)
[14:28] <seb128> mvo_, yes
[14:28] <mvo_> seb128: what is the package name?
[14:28] <mac_v> cassidy: we just havent done the icons in all sizes , we have mostly done icons in the sizes they are used and the rest of the sizes are low in the TODO list
[14:28] <mvo_> binary-gui?
[14:28] <seb128> mvo_, I installed oprofile-gui
[14:28] <seb128> which depends on oprofile
[14:28] <seb128> and I got 2 oprofile-gui lines
[14:28]  * mvo_ tries
[14:28] <mvo_> yep
[14:28] <mvo_> same here
[14:28] <mvo_> nice catch!
[14:29] <mac_v> cassidy: but , we want to do them for sure :) ... any reason for the doubt?
[14:29] <seb128> mvo_, want a bug?
[14:29] <mvo_> seb128: maybe later, i hope I can fix it directly
[14:30] <mvo_> seb128: but its fine for now, I can reproduce it
[14:30] <cassidy> mac_v, I changed some code in Empathy and now one icon is much bigger than before and noticed it was only in 48
[14:30] <mac_v> cassidy: which icon is misbehaving?
[14:31] <seb128> mvo_, ok thanks
[14:31] <cassidy> mac_v, audio-input-microphone.svg
[14:31] <chrisccoulson1> yay, it's snowing outside!
[14:31] <mac_v> hmm ,
[14:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, bah, lucky you ;-)
[14:32] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - it's only snowed a little so far
[14:32] <baptistemm> yeah lucky one.
[14:32] <mac_v> cassidy: but the 48px icons are all set as scalable in humanity , even if we dont have the smaller size the app should be able to scale it down.. BTW , which size is required?
[14:32] <chrisccoulson1> i don't want much more, else it will take me ages to get home ;)
[14:32] <baptistemm> I wish I could do a snowman :)
[14:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, good reason to leave work early to avoid too much snow? ;-)
[14:33] <cassidy> mac_v, GTK_ICON_SIZE_MENU  but maybe that's my code which is bugged and don't rescale properly
[14:33] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - i don't think my employer is flexible enough to let me do that ;)
[14:35] <mvo_> seb128: let me know how oprofile is
[14:35] <seb128> mvo_, I will, interested in optimizing your code too? ;-)
[14:35] <seb128> mvo_, seems you are good at that, software-center rocks
[14:36] <mvo_> with everybody else doing it, I don't want to stay behind ;)
[14:36] <seb128> it's fast even on the mini config
[14:36] <mvo_> bäh, I can not reproduce it anymore (the oprofile one) now that I turned on debugging
[14:36] <seb128> (which is not the case of update-manager which blocks for long enough at start to have the compiz thing painting it)
[14:36] <mvo_> seb128: nice! I guess the indexing during pkg install is pretty slow
[14:37] <mvo_> seb128: yeah, u-m needs some love too
[14:37] <seb128> mvo_, btw I've the same on uninstall, ie remove oprofile
[14:37] <seb128> ie will have a line named oprofile for oprofile-gui too
[14:38] <mvo_> *grr* now it always works
[14:38] <mvo_> a minute ago it didn't
[14:38] <seb128> lol
[14:39] <mvo_> so even with package in lucid on the mini its still fast?
[14:39] <mvo_> thats great to hear :)
[14:39] <seb128> mvo_, yes
[14:39] <seb128> good work ;-)
[14:39] <mvo_> cool
[14:39]  * mvo_ is happy
[14:39] <seb128> btw count is weird too
[14:40] <seb128> on start the status bar states "2230 application available"
[14:40] <seb128> click on a category and then back to start screen
[14:40] <seb128> and the count is 43153 now ;-)
[14:40] <mvo_> if you do it again, does it multiple by factor 20 again ;) ?
[14:41] <seb128> no, it stays on 43153
[14:41] <mvo_> I can reproduce that too, but for me its "just" 32104
[14:41] <mac_v> cassidy: i'm not sure whats wrong in empathy, but ideally the app should be able to scale the icon , some icon themes only have 128px scalable icons , the problem would arise there too , but the icons we'll get them done in time :)
[14:41] <mvo_> you got apparently some more repos enabled
[14:42] <seb128> yes
[14:42] <seb128> I might still have karmic-updates, etc
[14:43]  * seb128 stops playing with software-center now
[14:43] <seb128> mvo_, I've bounced enough issues your way for today I think ;-)
[14:45] <seb128> mvo_, the frame around screenshots is wrong too sometime
[14:45] <seb128> anyway enough s-c bugging for now
[14:45] <mvo_> seb128: wrong in what way? in the details view?
[14:46] <seb128> mvo_, no, open gcalctool
[14:46] <seb128> and look at the screenshot
[14:46] <seb128> in s-c I mean, not the software
[14:46] <mvo_> right, you mean that it got this extra lines on the bottom?
[14:46] <seb128> yes
[14:46] <seb128> the frame doesn't match the screenshot
[14:46] <seb128> there is a blank area too
[14:47] <seb128> it looks weird
[14:47] <mvo_> yeah
[14:48] <cassidy> mac_v, got it, I fixed scaling in Empathy :)
[14:48] <mac_v> neat :)
[14:58] <mvo_> seb128: thanks, it was a race. fixed in trunk
[14:59] <seb128> mvo_, did I already say that you rock today? ;-)
[15:00] <mvo_> seb128: I think so, I still like to hear :)
[15:00]  * mvo_ is happy
[15:00] <seb128> ;-)
[15:39] <mvo_> mpt: for software-center, what should the initial status bar say "2000 applications available" (so it counts just the applications) or "22000 software items available" ?
[15:44] <mvo_> seb128: count issue is now fixed as well I think
[16:06] <fagan> kenvandine: is the rgba in lucid going to be fixed this week?
[16:06] <seb128> mvo_, excellent ;-)
[16:06] <seb128> fagan, then is no rgba in lucid, it's in a ppa so far
[16:06] <seb128> then -> there
[16:07] <fagan> seb128: thats what I was asking aboyt
[16:07] <fagan> *about
[16:07] <seb128> it's not likley now no
[16:07] <seb128> likely
[16:07] <seb128> can't typo today!
[16:07] <fagan> I just wanted to know so I can test
[16:07] <seb128> week is almost over and there is still known crashers
[16:07] <seb128> gksu has been fixed though
[16:08] <seb128> but totem crashes
[16:08] <seb128> and some other issues
[16:09] <fagan> gksu is a pain when its not working
[16:11] <tseliot> rickspencer3: ping
[16:11] <rickspencer3> hi tseliot
[16:11] <mpt> mvo_, "The status bar text should be of the form “29 079 items available”." <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#lobby>
[16:11] <rickspencer3> ooh call time
[16:11] <tseliot> right
[16:15] <mvo_> mpt: ok, thanks
[16:58] <pitti> so long, good night everyone
[16:58] <seb128> 'night pitti
[17:01]  * Amaranth looks around
[17:02] <seb128> hey Amaranth
[17:02] <seb128> how are you?
[17:02] <Amaranth> howdy
[17:02] <Amaranth> doing good, slept in on my day off :)
[17:02] <Amaranth> you?
[17:03] <seb128> good, thanks
[17:03] <seb128> I asked mvo_ what he though about the compiz split
[17:04] <seb128> he seems to think some 27 binaries is overdoing it too
[17:04] <mvo_> is it really 27?
[17:04] <seb128> what would you think about dropping everything buggy or useless and putting everything else not used by default in one extra binary?
[17:05] <Amaranth> mvo_: well there are something like 70 plugins if we were to split them all
[17:06] <Amaranth> I didn't plan on doing that though, just compiz-plugins and plugins-main while dropping the excess (minimize vs animation, plane vs wall, etc) and the buggy/crazy
[17:06] <seb128> heh
[17:06] <seb128> you told me you did it a week ago or so
[17:06] <seb128> don't make me grep for logs ;-)
[17:06] <Amaranth> Right, I told you I split compiz-plugins
[17:06] <Amaranth> Then you said to drop the ones we didn't want
[17:07] <seb128> do you have those changes somewhere?
[17:07] <seb128> well that's my opinion
[17:07] <Amaranth> I agree with it :)
[17:07] <seb128> I'm open to discuss if you disagree
[17:07] <seb128> good ;-)
[17:07]  * mvo_ needs to leave for dinner now, sorry for that
[17:07] <seb128> mvo_, enjoy
[17:07] <Amaranth> I was just going to get rid of options for the plugins that were crazy/broken but getting read of whole plugins never occured to me
[17:08] <Amaranth> But I guess we can split each one into "stuff we use" and "stuff we don't use" instead
[17:08] <Amaranth> But you have to tell me how to name them :)
[17:08]  * Ng notes it's almost christmas and the snow plugin is deprecated ;(
[17:08] <seb128> well I would do 3 categories
[17:08] <seb128> things which are known to be buggy and should not be used, which we would just stop shipping
[17:08] <Amaranth> s/deprecated/removed from karmic/
[17:08] <seb128> things we install by default
[17:08] <seb128> things we ship in universe
[17:09] <Amaranth> seb128: Right and I've got compiz-plugins as the name for the parts we use, what do we name the other one?
[17:10] <seb128> -universe
[17:10] <seb128> ?
[17:10] <seb128> since extras, etc is already used
[17:10] <Amaranth> Rather unimaginative but alright ;)
[17:10] <Amaranth> btw, why does it matter that the binary is in universe when the source comes from main?
[17:11] <seb128> I'm not really an imaginative person indeed
[17:11] <seb128> it doesn't
[17:11] <seb128> let's use -wedontcare
[17:11] <seb128> ;-)
[17:11] <Amaranth> hehe
[17:11] <seb128> or -crackaddict
[17:11] <Ng> -unsupported? :)
[17:11] <Amaranth> I like -blingtastic
[17:12] <Amaranth> Ng: Already taken by upstream
[17:12] <Ng> -unsupporteder ;)
[17:12] <Amaranth> compiz had a thing sort of like gstreamer's good, bad, and ugly
[17:13] <Amaranth> main, extra, unsupported
[17:13] <Amaranth> Ng: Unsupported part 2: This time it's serious
[17:13] <Ng> this time seb means it
[17:14]  * Amaranth wonders why launchpad keeps telling him he uploaded compiz
[17:19]  * mpt blinks at apturl: "Package mencoder is virtual."
[17:19] <mpt> What's that supposed to mean?
[17:19] <Amaranth> It means several packages have a Provides for mencoder but there is no package named mencoder
[17:22] <mpt> thanks Amaranth
[17:24] <mpt> Amaranth, but now I've uninstalled ttf-larabie-deco, apt:ttf-larabie-deco gives me "Package 'ttf-larabie-deco' is virtual." too. So either ttf-larabie-deco is provided by some other package (I don't think so), or that's not what "is virtual" means, or there's a bug in apturl.
[17:25] <Amaranth> mpt: I guess the last one
[17:25] <mpt> woot
[17:27] <Amaranth> mpt: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html section 3.6 explains what a virtual package is
[17:27] <Amaranth> so it'd have to be a bug in apturl
[17:27] <mpt> thanks
[17:27] <mpt> I was just looking at that same page earlier today
[17:30] <Amaranth> mencoder does not appear to be virtual either...
[17:32] <Amaranth> james_w: according to your email I should be able to do `bzr branch lp:ubuntu/compiz` and get a branch to work on but instead I get this: bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:ubuntu/compiz": compiz in ubuntu has no default branch.
[17:39] <Amaranth> seb128: on bug 356702 upstream actually completely failed to understand the problem but decided it was a dupe of a known libwnck (not compiz) bug instead
[17:40] <rickspencer3> msg eeejay_away hi
[17:40] <Amaranth> oops :)
[17:41] <Amaranth> I have a feeling the problem is libwnck isn't getting mouse events during the viewport change animation so doesn't know the mouse left and gets into a weird state
[17:46] <mpt> mvo_, are URLs of the form "apt+http://launchpad.net/~mvo/ppa?package=2vcard" actually supposed to be implemented at the moment? Firefox gives me an error when I try to open one, and won't let me set up apturl to handle it.
[17:46] <mpt> ("Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (apt+http) isn't associated with any program.")
[17:51] <james_w> Amaranth: compiz hasn't been imported yet
[17:51] <Amaranth> james_w: ah, that explains it then
[19:45] <mac_v> Amaranth: hi.. what happened to the show desktop plugin in Lucid? , has it been removed?
[19:45] <Amaranth> mac_v: that's in plugins-extra, you need to install it
[19:45] <mac_v> ah...
[19:45] <mac_v> Amaranth: is this due to the new split?
[19:45] <Amaranth> no, we just don't use any plugins from that package so don't install it
[19:46] <mac_v> oh , ok
[20:24] <baptistemm> hi pitti
[20:24] <baptistemm> backlight is working
[20:24] <baptistemm> hmm actually hal was not removed, ...
[20:25] <baptistemm> ah, I'm just wrong. hal is removed, but libhal and mibhal-storage are still installed
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> hi awe - i just replied to your mail
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> (sorry, I only just got in from work)
[21:45] <awe> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[21:48] <chrisccoulson> hey jcastro
[21:48] <chrisccoulson> i just replied to the tracker bug you opened :)
[21:49] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to work on updating to the latest version of tracker over the next couple of weeks, so I don't think anyone should spend any effort porting it to use the new application indicator yet
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[21:50] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[21:50] <seb128> jcastro, there?
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[21:50] <jcastro> seb128: yeah
[21:50] <seb128> good thanks
[21:50] <seb128> you?
[21:50] <seb128> did you manage to go back from work?
[21:50] <seb128> jcastro, thanks for bug flooding us ;-)
[21:50] <jcastro> seb128: hey I just work here!
[21:51] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: great, that's why we filed them all, to be aware of issues like that
[21:51] <seb128> jcastro, heh, joke aside would be nice to put an useful url in the bugs
[21:51] <seb128> but that might be late now
[21:51] <seb128> like a tutorial
[21:51] <seb128> or a blog post explaining the thing
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i got back from work (just now)
[21:51] <jcastro> seb128: I am going to add a URL to the porting guide to the URL that it's currently pointing to
[21:51] <seb128> because the tarball page is of no real use...
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> the weather is not too bad though - most of the snow has gone now. it's just very icy
[21:52] <jcastro> yeah I only realized that after I had sent the mail
[21:52] <jcastro> seb128: but don't worry I am working on it now!
[21:52] <seb128> jcastro, good ;-)
[21:52] <seb128> jcastro, I just though you had documentation ready etc
[21:52] <jcastro> I do
[21:52] <seb128> so I was a bit disappointed when I clicked on the url
[21:52] <jcastro> I have it all ready
[21:52] <jcastro> I just didn't link
[21:52] <seb128> I actually wanted to have a look at those
[21:52] <jcastro> it will be fixed in a minute
[21:52] <seb128> ok good
[21:52] <seb128> thanks
[21:52] <seb128> you rock!
[21:52]  * seb128 hugs jcastro
[21:53] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
[21:53] <seb128> that's useful!
[21:54] <jcastro> even got you a porting guide in 3 languages!
[21:54] <seb128> one thing
[21:55] <seb128> would be nice to have a configure example too
[21:55] <seb128> in the C case
[21:55] <seb128> there is quite some people who don't like autotools and just want to copy those things
[21:55] <jcastro> ok
[21:55] <jcastro> https://edge.launchpad.net/indicator-application
[21:55] <jcastro> how's this for discoverability now?
[21:56] <seb128> jcastro, that's much better now ;-)
[21:56] <seb128> thanks!
[22:03] <kenvandine> seb128, i have the tomboy patch with appindicator support
[22:04] <kenvandine> it will be dep wait for the new binary packages to get NEWed... can i upload?
[22:04] <seb128> kenvandine, you got the bindings in lucid already?
[22:04] <kenvandine> uploaded
[22:04] <seb128> new-ed?
[22:04] <kenvandine> but will need to be NEWed
[22:04] <kenvandine> not yuet
[22:04] <kenvandine> yet
[22:04] <seb128> hum
[22:04] <seb128> I would wait
[22:04] <kenvandine> ok
[22:04] <kenvandine> will do
[22:04] <seb128> or you will block tomboy until those are newed
[22:04] <kenvandine> i will push the bzr branch though
[22:05] <seb128> which might not be before a week with people on holidays etc
[22:05] <seb128> who sponsored those?
[22:05] <seb128> is that a new source?
[22:06] <kenvandine> no, not new
[22:06] <kenvandine> they are in indicator-application
[22:06] <seb128> hum
[22:06] <kenvandine> i had pitti look over the packaging a bit this morning
[22:06] <seb128> I can probably binary new those tonight
[22:06] <seb128> upload tomboy
[22:06] <kenvandine> ok
[22:06] <kenvandine> cool!
[22:06] <seb128> I though that was a new source
[22:07] <seb128> I'm not sure I like having binding built from the new source
[22:07] <seb128> but that's not a discussion for now ;-)
[22:07] <kenvandine> hehe... ok
[22:07] <kenvandine> well the bindings got added to the upstream source
[22:07] <kenvandine> so they are all in one place
[22:07] <kenvandine> much better that what happened with libindicate
[22:07] <kenvandine> what a pain
[22:08] <seb128> ok
[22:08] <seb128> I'm happy that pygtk is not in gtk source for example ;-)
[22:34] <seb128> jcastro, tedg: that document lacks instruction on what to do
[22:34] <seb128> like what should be done with the software we patch
[22:34] <seb128> it has examples for new code
[22:34] <seb128> it doesn't say if we should have fallback for standard notification area use
[22:34] <seb128> it doesn't say if menus should be reorganized or if currents ones should be used
[22:35] <seb128> is that something you plan to work on documenting too?
[22:35] <tedg> seb128: Yes, but we need to finish things like fallbacks in the library.
[22:36] <tedg> seb128: mpt has also written some design guidelines.
[22:36] <tedg> seb128: I'm not sure why they didn't get in.
[22:36] <seb128> is it worth to start on porting applications now?
[22:36] <seb128> implementing code for things the library will do seems suboptimal
[22:36] <tedg> seb128: I would say yes, as for most apps the library will take care of all the fallbacks.
[22:36] <seb128> well, you recommend not having fallback for now then?
[22:37] <seb128> until the library get that done
[22:37] <tedg> Yes.
[22:37] <seb128> ok thanks
[22:37] <robert_ancell> grr, is bzr down
[22:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, who can do SRUs?  I did a proper SRU for gcalctool but no-one has sponsored it (bug  483730).  I
[22:41] <robert_ancell> 'd like to release 5.28.2 to karmic
[22:42] <TheMuso> /c/c
[22:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, you should subscribe sponsors if you want sponsoring
[22:42] <seb128> you didn't there
[22:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, did you try? you might be able now
[22:42] <seb128> gcalctool is in the desktop set
[22:42] <seb128> or it should
[22:43] <robert_ancell> seb128, ah, ok
[22:43]  * robert_ancell looks up SRU documentation
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i just sponsored a karmic SRU for transmission, and that uploaded ok
[22:43] <seb128> robert_ancell, you apparently subscribed the sru team to the bug
[22:43] <seb128> which should be subscribed after upload
[22:43] <seb128> they do review not uploads
[22:43] <seb128> and they work in reverse I think
[22:44] <seb128> ie notice things in the queue and go the bug
[22:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, so they take it out of proposed and into karmic?
[22:44] <seb128> which explain why nobody commented on that bug
[22:44] <seb128> yes
[22:44] <seb128> it's the same as hard freeze
[22:45] <seb128> you need an archive admin to wave uploads through from the queue
[22:45] <seb128> the sru team do the debdiff review and accept the updates
[22:45] <robert_ancell> seb128, hmm, I also want to make a karmic bzr branch to practise that but bzr/lp seems down at the moment
[22:45] <seb128> right
[22:45] <seb128> cf #ubuntu-devel
[22:45] <seb128> or #launchpad topic...
[22:46] <robert_ancell> I'm putting together a proposal for bzr in oem - what do you guys see as the big advantages over the previous system?
[22:46] <seb128> review are much easier
[22:47] <seb128> when you ask somebody to fix something you can review the new commit
[22:47] <seb128> rather than diffing diffs than you download from somewhere
[22:47] <seb128> you can also see history of changes
[22:47] <seb128> it allow stacking work without uploading
[22:48] <seb128> or you can start working on something and not conflict with other people because everybody works in his corner
[22:48] <seb128> it makes easier to have somebody else looking at your changes
[22:48] <seb128> or fixing those
[22:48] <robert_ancell> seb128, was there a reason why we went with only the debian/ dir in bzr - was that to keep merging with debian easier?
[22:49] <seb128> it's mainly due to me saying no to full source
[22:49] <seb128> the main concern was speed issues
[22:49] <seb128> like bzr get from nautilus taking 25 minutes
[22:49] <seb128> where apt-get takes 1 minute to download the tarball
[22:49] <seb128> but bzr got much better since
[22:49] <robert_ancell> seb128, right, I wonder if that is fixed with bzr 2
[22:50] <robert_ancell> is debian moving to drop dpatch and use git instead?
[22:50] <seb128> I think we should use full source now
[22:50] <seb128> not sure
[22:50] <seb128> their new source format has quilt builtin
[22:50] <seb128> but they can use git too I think
[22:50] <seb128> not sure what people will do
[22:51] <seb128> Debian doesn't enforce such decisions
[22:51] <seb128> it's up to people to decide
[22:51] <robert_ancell> bzr is back!
[22:51] <seb128> good ;-)
[22:51] <seb128> using full source will make cherry picking and merges easier too
[22:52] <seb128> though merges don't have often things out of the debian dir
[22:53] <robert_ancell> seb128, right, so I'm wondering if I should recommend to oem to go straight to full source and we'll start doing that in lucid+1
[22:54] <seb128> right
[22:54] <seb128> I'm not opposed to do it in lucid
[22:55] <seb128> you could use gdm as an example
[22:55] <seb128> or gcalctool
[22:55] <robert_ancell> I'm using gcalctool as an example :)
[22:55] <seb128> ;-)
[22:56] <seb128> did you read james_w's email?
[22:58] <robert_ancell> seb128, don't know the email, did he send it today?
[22:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, no, yesterday your time I think
[22:59] <seb128> one day ago on ubuntu-devel list
[23:00]  * robert_ancell looking
[23:02] <robert_ancell> ah yes
[23:03] <seb128> kenvandine, still there?
[23:03] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah
[23:03] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm not sure about your libindicate-cil-dev
[23:03] <kenvandine> ?
[23:04] <seb128> looking to the other .pc for sharp things I've installed
[23:04] <seb128> which is a good list of those
[23:04] <seb128> they all put the .pc in the -cil
[23:04] <seb128> ie they don't have an extra -dev binary
[23:04] <kenvandine> humm
[23:05] <kenvandine> weird... it does seem like a waste to have the binary for one file
[23:05] <kenvandine> but it seems weird to include a pkgconfig file in a lib?
[23:06] <seb128> well I've 21 example on my box
[23:06] <seb128> and they are all consitant
[23:06] <seb128> I would say the mono packager decide on that in Debian
[23:06] <kenvandine> ok... then i'll whack that then :)
[23:06] <seb128> the mono packagers rather
[23:06] <seb128> you might want to ask a mono guy
[23:07] <seb128> ie directhex on #ubuntu-devel for example
[23:07] <kenvandine> i looked, it does seem consistent
[23:07] <Laney> we just changed that
[23:08] <seb128> kenvandine, http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html
[23:08] <Laney> this is a new policy, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono-devTransition
[23:09] <seb128> Laney, what did you decide on?
[23:10] <seb128> the page has a list but no details about the transition
[23:10] <Laney> yeah, I don't know if it's written down
[23:10] <Laney> -dev containing the pc file and a ${binary:Version} dep on the lib basically
[23:10] <seb128> so what should be done?
[23:10] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[23:10] <seb128> you are leading innovation apparently there ;-)
[23:11] <Laney> it's to help for transitions
[23:11] <kenvandine> hehe
[23:11] <seb128> Laney, thank you
[23:11] <kenvandine> seb128, it's what other distros do :)
[23:12] <Laney> np
[23:12] <kenvandine> ok, so we can leave as is
[23:12] <kenvandine> thx Laney
[23:12] <Laney> there is a little gotcha with tomboy packaging and mono 2.4.3 btw
[23:12] <Laney> you might want to grab the change from tomboy -3 that we just uploaded to debian
[23:12] <Laney> unless you like 8mb more of deps :)
[23:12]  * kenvandine needs to jet for a bit
[23:12] <kenvandine> eww
[23:12] <kenvandine> Laney, i'll look
[23:13] <seb128> kenvandine, I will new your binaries to main now
[23:13] <seb128> have fun
[23:13] <kenvandine> thx
[23:13] <seb128> see you tomorrow ;-)
[23:13] <seb128> I'm probably off to bed soon after that
[23:18] <seb128> kenvandine, hum, the dev should be arch all I guess
[23:19] <seb128> since it has only the .pc which is txt
[23:19] <seb128> to fix in a next upload
[23:19] <Laney> don't forget the replaces too
[23:20] <Laney> if you are moving from non -dev to having one
[23:20] <seb128> Laney, it's a new package in this case
[23:20] <seb128> the new indicator thing
[23:20] <seb128> but thanks
[23:20] <Laney> okey dokey