[00:02] <joaopinto> hello
[00:03] <Riddell> hi joaopinto
[00:03] <joaopinto> on getdeb we get a lot of complains about Kubuntu users not being able to install from apturl links, is there a bug reported about that ?
[00:04] <joaopinto> I am not a Kubuntu user myself, but as far as I understood they are all using firefox
[00:04] <Riddell> apturl was done by apachelogger as I mind, I've been meaning to look into it for ages
[00:05] <Riddell> possibly for firefox the apturl bits don't get installed by default with an apt-get install firefox
[00:05] <joaopinto> as a workaround they need to install firefox-gnome-support
[00:05] <maco> theres no application handler set by default
[00:05] <joaopinto> there is an apturl-kde, so maybe it is just a matter of integration ?
[00:05] <maco> should be gdebi i think
[00:06] <joaopinto> maco, apturl..something, on gnomes case, apturl-gtk which is the gui
[00:06] <joaopinto> gdebi is for .debs :)
[00:06] <maco> i thought apturl called gdebi, but ok
[00:07] <joaopinto> apart from us more and more sites, wikis, etc are adopting apt: for the links, it would be great to have it fixed for 10.04
[00:09] <joaopinto> found a bug report about it, bug 476853
[00:14] <joaopinto> we get too many contacts about it, I will just link to the bug report on the how to install instructions for Kubuntu users
[01:21] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I'll find out
[01:36] <nixternal> dtchen: learning all of the vcs' is awesome!
[01:37] <nixternal> the last company I was at, went from svn, to bzr, to hg all in a single month
[01:38] <Sput> they should've gone to git straight away :P
[01:39] <nixternal> they are all nothing more than the same way to skin the same cat
[02:01] <Sput> yeah, but not all of them give you a nice cat fillet afterwards
[02:20] <shtylman_> so I just installed daily lucid on my laptop
[02:20] <shtylman_> what happened to the network manager?
[02:45] <nixternal> shtylman_: I nave network mangler on my desktop (lucid)
[02:45] <nixternal> anyways, I am going to start working on the slides for the desktop and netbook
[02:45] <nixternal> do you have a branch somewhere I can work off of?
[02:50] <shtylman_> nixternal: is the network manager running in the systray for you?
[02:50] <shtylman_> cause i don't have one there
[02:50] <shtylman_> nope...no branch yet... maybe the old branch for the regular slides is still around...
[02:57] <nixternal> yes, it is running
[02:57] <shtylman_> but now that I have my laptop hopefully I will be more motivated to work when not at my place
[03:27] <shtylman_> how come the kubuntu menu icons is no longer packaged with the default?
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> It wasn't being used plus it made the diff from Debian huge liek xbox
[03:29] <shtylman_> I was using it :(
[03:29] <shtylman_> I love it :)
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> I think it's on kde-look
[03:30] <shtylman_> it is
[03:30] <shtylman_> but when it was packaged it was so much better and easier
[03:31] <JontheEchidna> new package anyone? kubuntu-kmenu-icon :P
[03:33] <shtylman_> seems kinda bad...a whoole package just for that icon
[03:33] <shtylman_> *whole
[03:33] <shtylman_> wouldn't the metabdata be more than the data?
[03:39] <JontheEchidna> maybe not after the 4 icons includes (one for each size)
[03:55] <JontheEchidna> http://imagebin.ca/view/XRl_OP.html <- Kubuntu logo itself doesn't look bad
[03:56] <JontheEchidna> Wonder if we coudl get upstream to maybe work a little of that magic with a little bit of this magic: http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2009/08/for-future.html
[03:56] <JontheEchidna> So that it looks more clickable
[03:59] <nixternal> I think it is time for a Kubuntu logo makeover...it looks out of place nowadays imho
[04:00] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I just got home.  Did you get a chance to see why runtime failed on armel again?
[04:00] <JontheEchidna> Not much to makeover, if we stick to the basic Ubuntu logo. An Oxygen colorscheme would be really nice
[04:01] <ScottK> dtchen: Having to learn multiple VCS seriously annoys me.  I never seem to be able to use some of the regularly enough to remember them so each time I touch (Git for example) it's like starting from scratch.
[04:01] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: sftp stuff in .install.armel
[04:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Do we need install.armel anymore?
[04:02] <JontheEchidna> Dunno
[04:02] <JontheEchidna> Was originally for the lack of soprano, but now soprano compiles
[04:03] <ScottK> Just looked at install.armel and it seriously could not work.
[04:03]  * ScottK tries without.
[04:09] <ScottK> Done
[06:01] <ScottK> Riddell: runtime (and edu last I looked) is in New.  It's my upload, so I can't review it.
[06:32] <jussi01> Hrm, Im using the 4.4 beta,  its telling me that I need virtuoso soprano (and kmail dont work) - is it in there or is my apt-cache foo borked? :D
[08:40] <jussi01> yay for crashes with the 4.4 beta: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m75ad2c18 (krita)
[08:41] <Mamarok> jussi01: could have told you before: Qt 4.6 has some very nasty bugs that make a lot of KDE apps crash
[08:42] <Mamarok> worst Qt version ever
[08:42] <Mamarok> I will not even think of KDE 4.4 before Qt 4.6.1
[08:42] <jussi01> Mamarok: Im getting crashes in lots of things.
[08:44] <jussi01> Mamarok: btw, any chance you know the answer to this? [08:32:07] <jussi01> Hrm, Im using the 4.4 beta,  its telling me that I need virtuoso soprano (and kmail dont work) - is it in there or is my apt-cache foo borked? :D
[08:47] <Mamarok> well, Nepomuk needs the virtuoso backend, but I don't think it is available yet, not in the repo at least
[08:47] <ghostcube> jussi01: klipper and dolhpin sometimes crash for me on 4.4.1
[08:47] <ghostcube> havent had any other crash till now
[08:47] <jussi01> Mamarok: ah, thanks
[08:47] <Mamarok> kmail does work though, I don't see why this would be related
[08:48] <jussi01> ghostcube: klipper, dolphin, krita, quassel
[08:48] <ghostcube> ah yes and quassel
[08:48] <jussi01> Mamarok: it cant start nepomuk
[08:48] <ghostcube> thats very unhandy
[08:48] <Mamarok> Amarok crashes in at least 3 different locations with Qt 4.6, and a few other strange behavior, like layout freezes
[08:48] <ghostcube> but xchat runs very stable
[08:48] <Mamarok> well, no, you can't since you don't have the backend
[08:48] <ghostcube> i changed till quassel works again
[08:48] <ghostcube> :D
[08:48] <Mamarok> jussi01: either the Nepomuk people didn't communicate correctly, or the packager didn't read correctly
[08:49] <Mamarok> but Nepomuk never worked out of the box in Kubuntu anyway, since we ship the wrong java
[08:49] <Mamarok> one has to tweak a lot
[08:49] <Mamarok> and strigi is not installed by default neither, so searching without a search engine...
[08:49] <jussi01> well somethings borked on mine then
[08:50] <jussi01> and this new notification where they dont go away? its annoying...
[08:50] <Mamarok> jussi01: bug reports upstream to http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com
[08:50] <jussi01> Mamarok: :D
[08:51] <Mamarok> and make them fire some coordinator or release manager, it is a real disaster
[08:51] <jussi01> Mamarok: btw, do you know which -dbg packages I need for krita?
[08:51] <Mamarok> nope, not out of the box, some koffice-dbg I guess
[08:51] <jussi01> Mamarok: its a .0 release, its the "KDE way" :P
[08:52] <Mamarok> jussi01: not at all, it's the Nokia way, much, much worse
[08:52] <Mamarok> and no, it's not a .0
[08:53] <jussi01> ooh... yummy....
[08:53] <jussi01> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[08:53] <jussi01>   koffice-kde4-dbg: Depends: koffice-libs-kde4 (= 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3) but 1:2.1.0-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa1 is to be installed
[08:53] <jussi01> something not right there...
[08:55] <Mamarok> jussi01: talk to the packager
[08:55] <jussi01> Mamarok: who is that?
[10:04] <Quintasan|Szel> sup?
[10:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think that apturl issue is really caused by firefox-installer not installing the gnome-support packages
[10:14] <apachelogger> otherwilse aputrl-kde would integrate just as well as the gnome UI
[10:14]  * apachelogger meant to change the installer before karmic but didnt get round it it
[10:14] <apachelogger> to it
[10:18] <apachelogger> markey: avatar is an epic movie, in 3d even more so ... though there is so much untold :)
[10:18] <markey> yeah, I've read about 50 reviews, can't wait to see it :)
[10:18] <markey> also want a poster
[10:18] <markey> and a t-shirt
[10:18] <markey> and the mug
[10:18] <markey> really :)
[10:18] <apachelogger> :D
[10:19] <apachelogger> my flatmate ordered books worth some 48 eur after the movie :D
[10:19] <markey> we're going to enjoy it in a good cinema in Berne
[10:19] <apachelogger> totally worth the obsession IMHO
[10:19] <markey> yes, and obsession is my second name
[10:19] <markey> so... :)
[10:19] <apachelogger> cameron really created a new story universe
[10:19] <markey> there are directors, and then there is Cameron
[10:20] <markey> it's not the same
[10:20] <markey> :)
[10:20] <apachelogger> *nod*
[10:20] <apachelogger> markey: I suppose you also watched the trailers and stuff?
[10:20] <markey> yep
[10:20] <markey> got it all here
[10:20] <markey> in HD
[10:21] <apachelogger> ok, after the movie you will know what to expect from the special XT edition :D
[10:21] <markey> :D
[10:21]  * apachelogger personally thinks that cameron must have like at least 2 hours unused stuff
[10:23] <markey> hm
[10:23] <markey> so I've just reviewed KDevelop a bit
[10:23] <markey> and I wonder if they are interested in some feedback
[10:23] <markey> problem is: they might not like it
[10:24] <markey> dunno if they can take a dose of True Light (TM)
[10:24] <markey> some can, others cannot :)
[10:24] <apachelogger> markey: as long as you dont do it via your blog, if they cant handle then you just dont need to care :P
[10:24] <markey> could wrap it in rhetorical sugar
[10:24] <markey> but then, it's just sugar
[10:25] <apachelogger> markey: like that ever worked for you :P
[10:25] <markey> I've dented it, I guess that's enough
[10:25] <markey> don't want to start an argument with those guys ;)
[10:25] <apachelogger> probably a good idea
[10:26]  * apachelogger is listening to It Was a Very Good Year by Frank Sinatra
[10:26] <apachelogger> oh dear
[10:26]  * markey is listening to Bassoon (K191) by Mozart on Mostly Classical - S K Y . F M - Listen and Relax, it's good for you! www.sky.fm [Amarok2]
[10:26] <apachelogger> Nightrose, Sput: didnt know one can do that in quassel, neat :)
[10:27] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i didn't know either until i complained about it being missing yesterday on the christmas market :D
[10:27] <apachelogger> christmas markets ftw!\
[10:27] <Nightrose> indeed
[10:28] <Sput> hehe :)
[10:28] <apachelogger> uhhh, "fragestunde" in my c programming class ... with cookies and coffee
[10:28]  * apachelogger better hits the shower
[10:31] <markey> why go there at all
[10:31] <markey> might as ask here :)
[10:31] <markey> I mean...
[10:31] <markey> as well*
[10:31] <markey> ah
[10:31] <markey> because of the cookies
[10:31] <markey> gotcha
[10:41] <apachelogger> markey: it would be more like me helping to answer questions and munching loads of cookies :D
[10:41] <markey> haha
[10:43] <Riddell> still no beta 2 tars :(
[10:56] <jussi01> someone hilight me please?
[10:58] <jussi01> cancel that... :D
[11:03] <jussi01> are tray icons usually 32x32 or 16x16 ?
[11:09] <Mamarok> jussi01: scalable?
[11:10] <jussi01> Mamarok: quassels aninmation isnt in scalable for some reason...
[11:12] <Sput> it's what I got from Nuno
[11:12] <Sput> (a better animation would be very welcome)
[11:12] <Sput> actually, I think he got me svgs as well
[11:13] <markey> sabdfl: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1482338&cid=30480260
[11:13] <markey> another nail in the coffin :)
[11:13] <Sput> jussi01: if you need them, I have an svg for them
[11:13] <jussi01> Sput: please!!
[11:13] <markey> the gnomish coffin, that is
[11:13] <jussi01> Sput: could you zip them and email them to me?
[11:13] <markey> there is no saving it :)
[11:14] <markey> not in this universe, at least
[11:14] <markey> although maybe, with a few millions dollars, and 3 years time
[11:14] <jussi01> Sput: jussi01 at ubuntu dot com :D
[11:14] <markey> one could rewrite it
[11:15] <Sput> jussi01: http://quassel-irc.org/pub/quassel-fadeout.tar.bz2
[11:16] <al> why don't you put em in the repository?
[11:16] <jussi01> Sput: does that include the alert ones?
[11:16] <Sput> I think so
[11:16] <Sput> just have a look
[11:17] <Sput> that's the package I got from nuno, afair
[11:17] <Sput> if you manage to create an animation (doesn't even need to glow for highlight, could also blink or something) that's more visible, it's likely to get included upstream :)
[11:18] <Mamarok> apachelogger: any news on that glibc backport? Don't know if cjwatson talked to doko
[11:19] <apachelogger> Mamarok: not that I know of, you should probably poke cjwatson again
[11:19] <jussi01> Sput: ill play...
[11:19] <Mamarok> apachelogger: he is not online right now
[11:19] <jussi01> Sput: If I give you svg's back, then thats acceptable?
[11:20] <Sput> mh, I'd have to scale them myself though
[11:22] <jussi01> Sput: right. Did Nuno give you scaled ones already or did you have a nice script to do it?
[11:22] <Sput> I think I got .png for one size and had to scale them myself
[11:22] <Sput> but don't know how I did it exactly
[11:25] <jussi01> Sput: the alert ones arent in that package
[11:25] <jussi01> (the fade to white ones)
[11:26] <Sput> hmm
[11:26] <Sput> don't have anything else here
[11:26] <jussi01> they are as PNG's in the repo
[11:26] <Sput> yeah
[11:26] <Sput> but I'm not sure if I got an .svg and lost it later, or if I got them as .png
[11:26] <Sput> it's been quite a while
[11:27] <Sput> in any case we can't use .svg for the tray afaik, the spec requires a bitmap
[11:30] <jussi01> Sput: do you know what the standard size is?
[11:30] <Sput> I *think* it's 16x16
[11:31] <Sput> though hmm, does the new tray spec support scaling?
[11:31] <Sput> I mean if you manage to get .svg as well, go for it :) can't hurt
[11:31] <Sput> I don't think you could've used the original animation anyway, as you prolly want to create a new target icon and then compute the transition somehow
[11:31] <Mamarok> Sput: from Nuno you normally only get .svg
[11:32] <Sput> well, he rasterized at least part of them
[11:32] <Sput> but as I said, it's been a while :/
[11:32] <Mamarok> Sput: for the blog, yes, but he normally sends over svgs
[11:32] <Mamarok> ask him :)
[11:33] <Sput> well, the package I uploaded was what I got from nuno orignially :) containing one large .svg and the individual images as .png
[11:33] <Sput> last time I asked him he didn't want to change the animation, saying tray icons are deprecated
[11:33] <Sput> but the new spec allows animations too :)
[11:34] <Sput> and/or overlay images, which would be a nice alternative
[11:34]  * jussi01 wants red or pink or something very different from blue - like konvi has red flashing. 
[11:35] <jussi01> I get frustrated cause I always miss stuff.
[11:35] <ghostcube> twitter hacked
[11:35] <ghostcube> by iran ?
[11:35] <ghostcube> lol
[11:35] <ghostcube> nice :D
[11:36] <Sput> jussi01: afterwards you'll have to pester seezer to fix the tray icon blinking when it shouldn't :)
[11:37] <jussi01> Sput: I will :D
[11:37] <jussi01> Im good at pestering :D
[11:37] <Sput> I've noticed :P
[11:37] <jussi01> :D
[11:37] <Sput> and now I'm going to assemble my new computer
[11:37] <jussi01> Sput: have you thought about how to do scripting
[11:37] <jussi01> ?
[11:37] <jussi01> :D

[11:37] <ScottK> Riddell: -runtime and -edu are stuck in New.  I really need -runtime to make more progress on armel.
[11:37] <Sput> jussi01: I keep thinking about it :)
[11:38] <Sput> mmmh. good thing about xmas presents you make yourself is that you don't have to wait til xmas
[11:38] <jussi01> :D
[11:39] <ghostcube> http://samcarstensen.blogspot.com/
[11:39] <ghostcube> rofl
[11:39] <ghostcube> :D
[11:39] <jussi01> Sput: I expect a nice christmas present from you then :D (scripting) :D
[11:39] <Sput> lemme start and finish the chatview rewrite first, will you? :P
[11:40] <jussi01> :D
[11:49] <ScottK> Riddell: -runtime is done.  Still need edu though.
[11:57] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone would look into Bug #498012
[12:32] <Riddell> ScottK: edu accepted
[12:32] <Riddell> !ninjas
[12:33] <Riddell> jussi01: as ubottu master are you able to update that?
[12:33] <jussi01> yes
[12:33] <jussi01> Riddell: just do !no ninjas is <reply>stuff you want here
[12:33] <jussi01> and Ill get it fixed
[12:33] <ScottK> Riddell: Great.  I just uploaded a fix for the konq-plugins doc over-write problem (it needed a kde4/kde in the path), so livefs builds ought to work again.
[12:35] <Riddell> !no ninjas is Help! apachelogger, JontheEchidna, nhandler, Riddell, ScottK, Lex79, Quintasan, neversfelde, maco, rgreening
[12:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: you really need to use kubotu for that :P
[12:35] <apachelogger> kubotu: ninjas
[12:36] <kubotu> apachelogger, JontheEchidna, Lex79, neversfelde, nhandler, Riddell, ScottK, stdin, nixternal, Quintasan and vorian ... to the Batcave!
[12:36] <jussi01> !ninjas
[12:37] <jussi01> apachelogger: if you want kubotu to compete with ubottu I can just remove her if youd like... ;)
[12:37] <jussi01> no sense doubling stuff up.
[12:37]  * apachelogger notes that ninjas orignated in kubotu
[12:37] <apachelogger> no clue who forked it :P
[12:38] <jussi01> !-ninjas-#kubuntu-devel
[12:38] <apachelogger> there you have it
[12:40] <Riddell> I think everyone should be sufficiently pinged now :)
[12:41] <jussi01> :D
[12:45] <refic> humm
[12:45] <refic> no daily build today?
[13:00] <ghostcube> kubotu = kubuntudevs boden turnen o.O
[13:08] <jussi01> is anyone else experiencing the notifications pile up with the 4.4 beta? my quassel notifications are like downloads, they pile up with a number and you end up with like 100 sitting there if you dont go click the x on each individual one...
[13:09] <apachelogger> is it just yesterdays image or is lucid netbook just horribly broken
[13:09] <ghostcube> jussi01: yeah i have the same
[13:10] <ghostcube> jussi01: does the country flag move away if you tell it to autohide ?
[13:10] <ghostcube> in taskbar ?
[13:12] <ghostcube> sudo /etc/init.d/service start|restart|stop
[13:12] <ghostcube> is working again ?
[13:13] <jussi01> ghostcube: country flag?
[13:13] <ghostcube> jussi01: if you enable the keyboard layouts
[13:13] <ghostcube> you have the country flag like in widows
[13:14] <jussi01> oh, yeah, I dont use that
[13:14] <ghostcube> oh ok :)
[13:14] <jussi01> btw, I have an IR remote control for my TV card. its somewhat mapped already, can kde re-map those keys?
[13:27] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: I made some changes to your gluon package and put it into ninjas
[13:27] <Riddell> however it has no Messages.sh nor COPYING file and upstream havn't done a release so I'm not sure we want to upload it to the archive
[13:28] <Riddell> even if kdegames does have it as a dependency
[13:33] <jussi01> ghostcube: you are on 4.4 beta, right?
[13:33] <jussi01> could you test if sftp works on dolphin?
[13:33] <ghostcube> jussi01: yes not right now but in gereral yes
[13:34] <ghostcube> later
[13:34] <ghostcube> not yet iam at work only xp here
[13:34] <ghostcube> o.o
[13:34] <jussi01> ok, anyone else around on the beta?
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan || Quintasan|Szel: I'd like to point out that the current (unspoken) convention for package names for KCModules is kcm-* :)
[13:38] <ScottK> jussi01: sftp is known now working with 4.4beta due to libssh not in main.
[13:38] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you hear back from asac?
[13:39] <jussi01> ScottK: ahh. is there a way I can enable it?
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: nope
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> not a peep out of him since I pinged
[13:39] <ScottK> jussi01: Rebuild -workspace with libssh-dev in build-depends.
[13:39] <jussi01> oh....
[13:39] <ScottK> You'll also need to fiddle with the .install files
[13:40] <jussi01> ScottK: I do hope that is going to change?
[13:40] <jussi01> ie. libssh is going to main, no?
[13:40] <ScottK> jussi01: Yes, we are waiting for the Main Inclusion Report to get approved
[13:40] <jussi01> ScottK: /me breathes a huge sigh of releif
[13:41] <jussi01> I use that dolphin feature _all_ the time...
[13:41]  * jussi01 goes to find anothe sftp client for the meantime...
[13:41]  * ScottK too
[13:43] <ScottK> Riddell: qtscriptgenerator is already in Main.  Amarok is depwait on qtscript-tools.  Any chance you could go ahead and promote it?
[13:44] <Riddell> ScottK: done
[13:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Cool.  Thanks.
[13:56] <Quintasan> Riddell: upstream said they do not want it in archive until release
[13:56] <Quintasan> PPA will be better since we can update it anytime we want
[14:12] <seele> interesting: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/295
[14:22] <ScottK> Riddell: python-kde3 seems to have evaded the blacklist and returned.  Would you please kill it/blacklist again?
[14:25] <Riddell> ScottK: done
[14:25] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:27] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: phonon-backends uploaded (now that runtime is sorted).
[14:29] <Quintasan> Riddell: Did my message reach you?
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: would you add gtk-qt-engine to the blacklist and hit it too?
[14:29] <Riddell> Quintasan: about gluon?  yes thanks
[14:29] <Quintasan> good
[14:30]  * Quintasan 's connection started broking few days ago
[14:30] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: done
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks
[14:40] <rgreening> is anyone backporting virtuoso to beta backports? Nepomuk fails without it...
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> virtuoso 6.0.0 doesnt' work with nepomuk so we have to wait until 6.0.1
[14:45] <rgreening> oh
[14:45] <rgreening> bugger
[14:47] <Riddell> can't we use the old version?
[14:48] <JontheEchidna> the packaging is a beast, but I suppose it's downgradable
[15:33] <ScottK> OK, I think the last packages we need for a complete armel ISO are queued/building.
[15:33] <Riddell> awooga
[15:34] <ScottK> Of course several of them are KDE SC bits that haven't had a try yet, so I'd be pleasantly suprised if they all built on the first try.
[15:34] <ScottK> Now if someone could just fix Qt on powerpc and ia64.
[15:35] <Riddell> for all our many ia64 users
[15:35] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: you know who is taking care of forum.kde.org?
[15:36] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: I don't immediately remember but #kde-forum would probably know
[15:36] <ScottK> Riddell: Not sure about Kubuntu, but there are a non-zero number of ia64 desktop users.
[15:36] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: thx
[15:39] <Riddell> ScottK: ld segfault on powerpc looks hard to fix
[15:39] <Riddell> "error: cast from 'JSC::JSCell*' to 'int32_t' loses precision" on ia64 probably just needs a c++ wizard
[15:40]  * ScottK looks for sebas ...
[15:40]  * sebas hides right here
[15:41] <yofel> is the fact that 'copy selection' is the default now in klipper a kde decision or did we do that?
[15:41]  * ScottK dubs sebas C++ wizard and hands him https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4:4.6.0-1ubuntu3/+build/1399258/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-ia64.qt4-x11_4:4.6.0-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for some patching.
[15:43] <sebas> ScottK: looks like you want a Qt developer
[15:43] <sebas> it doesn't look like anything I could fix
[15:43] <ScottK> sebas: Know any you could ask?
[15:44] <sebas> ask thiago if he knows who's responsible
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> yofel: That's a KDE decision, and one that I immediately un-did
[15:44] <ghostcube> me too
[15:44] <ghostcube> :D
[15:45] <yofel> well, me too, but we just had another person in ubuntu+1 that was confused by that
[15:45] <yofel> thx
[15:45] <ghostcube> why had kde decided to do this any arguments ?
[15:47] <Riddell> what's copy selection?
[15:48] <yofel> Riddell: you select a text and it's immediatly copied to the clipboard
[15:48] <Riddell> "synchronise contents of selection and clipboard"?
[15:48] <Riddell> that was recognised as being evil years ago
[15:49] <yofel> well, the kde devs seem to think otherwise now...
[15:51]  * ScottK summons the KDE god of usability ....
[15:51] <ScottK> seele: You around?
[15:52] <Riddell> it's been on for a year? http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/klipper/klipper.kcfg?view=log
[15:53] <Riddell> I've had Mattis Ettlich rant at me about how many bugs Qt has received from when that was on in KDE 1 times
[15:56] <ScottK> Now that I know what was causing that, I'm annoyed.
[15:57] <JontheEchidna> might have been accidental; I know that klipper has gotten some rearchitectural love recently
[15:59] <JontheEchidna> hmm, kcm-phonon-xine is in universe but phonon-backends-xine depends on it
[15:59] <al> klipper misses every other selection here - that's annoying
[16:00] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ would you please promote kcm-phonon-xine
[16:01] <Riddell> ScottK: done
[16:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: 44 minutes and you should be good.
[16:02] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Request nicely timed just before the publisher run.
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> I noticed plasma-scriptengine-javascript is universe too
[16:02] <ScottK> Does anything depend on that?
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> I thought we had been providing the js stuff by default, maybe not
[16:02] <refic> so where's today's daily build?
[16:03] <ScottK> Some of the scriptengines are in Universe on purpose, IIRC.
[16:04] <ScottK> refic: ISO build failed.
[16:05] <refic> oh, okay
[16:07] <Riddell> refic: I can rebuild them if you want to do some testing
[16:07] <ScottK> (the problem that caused the failure is fixed)
[16:09] <refic> Riddell: sure, if that's not too much work for you
[16:10] <Riddell> refic: building, should appear in an hour or so
[16:10] <Riddell> or less probably
[16:10] <refic> great, thanks
[16:17] <ScottK> Riddell: asac just PM'ed me he'd look at it today
[16:17] <ScottK> He's on "vacation", but not so much he's not working.
[16:17] <Riddell> ScottK: he PMed me too, he can't be having that much of a holiday :)
[16:17] <ScottK> Heh.  Yeah.
[16:24] <seele> ScottK: i am
[16:24] <seele> ScottK: que pasa?
[16:25] <ScottK> We were just discussing the upstream change to klipper that makes it put everything you highlight in the copy buffer by default.
[16:25] <ScottK> "synchronise contents of selection and clipboard"
[16:25] <ScottK> The consensus here (and from what user feedback we've gotten) is this was not a good change.
[16:26]  * ScottK was thinking you might consider looking into it with your KDE usability hat on.
[16:26] <ScottK> seele: ^^^
[16:26] <seele> ScottK: so it's syncronizing with whatever the x clipboard is instead of having a separate one?
[16:27] <seele> before middle click and ctrl+v were not synced and it caused a lot of confusion
[16:27] <ScottK> No, whever you select text it automatically puts it in the clipboard.
[16:27] <seele> it's also a hard tradeoff, do you support people who have been using x for years and expect select to copy to work, or do you support new users who don't know the functionality exists
[16:28] <seele> ScottK: right, isn't there another clipboard that does that? for x11 or something?
[16:28] <ScottK> Dunno, to me they are two different things
[16:28] <seele> all they did was sync it
[16:28] <ScottK> Dunno about others.
[16:28] <seele> right, that's because you know they exist and they are separate
[16:28] <seele> people who haven't been using unix for long don't know they are different
[16:28] <ScottK> I select all kinds of things I don't want to copy.
[16:28] <maco> ScottK: you know when you highlight to copy then middle click to paste?
[16:28] <Sput> seele: people who have been using windows don't expect selecting text overwrites their clipboard
[16:28] <maco> i think people tend to discover it accidentally
[16:29] <seele> Sput: yes, i know
[16:29] <ScottK> I'm well aware of it and find it highly annoying.
[16:29] <maco> oh i love it
[16:29] <Sput> they expect the clipboard to work with ctrl+c/v only
[16:29] <maco> i get so screwed up when i try to use non-linux systems...
[16:29] <seele> but all the hard core long time users out there will be pissed if you can't select to copy, mostly because of konsole buffer issues
[16:29] <Sput> well, such users could check that box in klipper :)
[16:29] <ScottK> seele: This is a question of defaults.
[16:29] <seele> ScottK: oh, they have an option?
[16:29] <ScottK> yes
[16:30] <ScottK> And it's the default that changed.
[16:30] <seele> sorry your comment didn't include that info :)
[16:30] <Sput> yep, klipper feature (has been around forever)
[16:30] <ScottK> Sorry
[16:30] <maco> so i think the question is do we expect more continuing-users or new users
[16:30] <seele> Sput: no way, wow i wish i knew that haha
[16:30] <Sput> seele: I've used it in KDE3 times already :)
[16:30] <ScottK> Without getting the new users, you don't get to have continuing users.
[16:30] <ScottK> But I'm not excactly a new user and I think this is terrible.
[16:31] <seele> ScottK: i think we should support users without assuming they have previous or in-depth knoweldge of how linux and x work
[16:31] <ScottK> So it's not that simple.
[16:31] <Sput> in that case, it shouldn't be synced I guess
[16:31] <seele> but that means getting rid of highlight-to-copy as well
[16:31] <maco> seele: wait you mean even for non-klipper users?? O_O
[16:31] <Sput> well, highlight-to-copy is coupled with the middle button, that always works
[16:31] <seele> ideally, autodetecting applications you cant ctrl+c in (like konsole) and using highlight-to-copy.. but i think you can also right click in konsole to copy
[16:31] <Sput> just the question if it also should overwrite the clipboard
[16:32] <seele> maco: klipper is a kde service, so it would be for all kde users
[16:32] <ScottK> seele: You can right click to copy in Konsole
[16:32] <seele> it's silly to support two different clip board systems, all it does is cause confusion
[16:32] <seele> the reason why it has lasted so long is because there are so many people used to highlight-to-copy
[16:32] <maco> seele: i dont use klipper though.  at least, its not in my tray thingy. are you saying i couldnt highlight then middle click?
[16:32] <Sput> I don't think you can turn that one of though, it's an X11 feature :)
[16:33]  * maco hopes Sput is right
[16:33] <seele> Sput: yeah, yet another problem
[16:33] <seele> i dont have a perfect solution, i'm just telling you how i think the optimal solution should be designed
[16:33] <Sput> so what klipper does (as an option) is syncing the two clipboards, which might lower confusion, but means that windows users will overwrite their clipboard all the time
[16:33] <seele> i can understand why kde wants to sync the clipboards, it will reduce confusion
[16:33] <Sput> maco: also how can you survive without klipper :)
[16:33] <seele> however, both options require the user to know how the system works and ellicits different types of errors
[16:34] <seele> Sput: but if the data is still in the clip board and accessible, is it a problem?
[16:34] <ScottK> I would just like to be in control of what's in my keyboard.
[16:34] <maco> Sput: simple. i have two buffers! i copy one thing with highlight and one thing with ctrl+c. paste the first with middle click and the second with ctrl+v. works great!
[16:34] <ScottK> keyboard/clipboard
[16:34] <Sput> maco: yep, but klipper also keeps history :)
[16:34] <Sput> I use that feature all the time
[16:34] <maco> Sput: what do i need that for?
[16:34] <maco> Sput: thats actually WHY i turn it off
[16:35] <seele> maco: you are a highly functional technical user who understands how the system works. of course you think two separate clip boards is awesome :)
[16:35] <Sput> dunno, I often make use of having past clipboard contents available
[16:35] <Sput> e.g. I'm selecting multiple things and then paste them in order
[16:35] <maco> Sput: i explicitly DO NOT want that accessible. same reason i clear history on browser restart and absolutely HATE that kickoff shows webpages in Recent Documents
[16:35]  * ScottK too (clip board history)
[16:35] <Riddell> seele: why does the existance of select/middle click confuse people who are used to only having control-c/v ?
[16:35] <Sput> maco: interesting... privacy reasons?
[16:35] <maco> Sput: yep
[16:36] <Sput> maco: ah ok. yeah, I can understand that in particular if your account is used by multiple people
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> ^not uncommon on public computers either
[16:36] <seele> Riddell: when you use ctrl v, you often highlight something, putting it in the buffer. middle click to paste is pretty easy to discover by accident. it becomes confusing when you realise that what you ctrl+c is not always what you paste via middle click
[16:37] <ScottK> seele: +1
[16:37] <Riddell> seele: I'd think that less confusing than having select suddenly change my clipboard
[16:37] <seele> i've also seen highlight-to-click used in help documentation for commands in the terminal, which is another way that users can learn of the existance
[16:38] <maco> seele: having two clipboards to me is no different than klipper with a max history of 2, except that i dont have to go all the way to the frickin tray to use it
[16:38] <seele> Riddell: i think highlight-to-copy should be turned off, but i dont think that is possible
[16:38] <jussi01> I hate the select copies the the clipboard thing...
[16:38] <maco> because its far away at the edge of the screen, and i would prefer not to have to move my mouse that far
[16:38] <seele> maco: again.. you are a high functioning technical user who knows how the system works
[16:39] <maco> seele: but in that case, klipper itself should be confusing for letting you copy more than one thing
[16:39] <maco> so really wouldnt the argument be to just not have klipper?
[16:39] <maco> i mean jeez, klipper might store 5 things
[16:39] <jussi01> I mean, try copy a url, then remove the current url (by select, delete), then paste... oh dammit, where did the url go?
[16:39]  * Sput was quite confused about the X11 selection thing when he started to use Linux 9 years ago, but back then you selected text and the selection would disappear on mouse release
[16:39] <seele> maco: not really, i think people who have experience in ms word are used to having a clipboard history
[16:39] <Sput> word has a clipboard history?
[16:39] <maco> Sput: ew so it was cut?
[16:40] <Sput> maco: no, the text stayed, but the selection wasn't permanent
[16:40] <maco> heh what Sput said re: word
[16:40] <Sput> so it got copied into the clipboard, and then the highlight vanished
[16:40] <maco> i think ive seen word do that once...and then whine at me that the clipboard got full or something when i tried to close word. i was very confused
[16:40]  * Sput hasn't used word in... uhm... he has never used word
[16:40] <maco> ms word taught me that clipboard manager thingies are confusing
[16:41] <seele> maco: how often do you use word? :P
[16:41] <maco> umm last time was probably 2007
[16:41] <maco> i used it on a mac then
[16:41]  * seele checks the calendar
[16:41] <seele> it's nearly 2010 now :P
[16:41] <maco> before that wouldve been daily in 2006 on windows xp
[16:41] <maco> because how else was i gonna do my homework? i didnt know about LaTeX yet!
[16:42] <ScottK> maco: Most modern systems have clipboards with history. Gnome is weird that it doesn't.
[16:42] <maco> ScottK: maybe thats why i used gnome when i started on ubuntu. klipper was probably the first thing i got rid of on kubuntu
[16:42] <seele> anyone know an X11 expert to see if highlight-to-copy can be turned off?
[16:43]  * Sput has used StarOffice when it still was something only known in Germany, way before it became OpenOffice
[16:43] <ScottK> maco: Interesting.  Most people I know consider it one of KDE's best features.
[16:43] <Sput> +1
[16:44] <seele> maybe we could patch klipper so that the option isn't necessarily to sync the two clipboards, but to toggle the x11 copy buffer
[16:44] <seele> people who REALLY want highlight-to-copy probably also want the double copy buffers, so that is two options in one
[16:44] <maco> ScottK: like i said, i dont want my copy history to be accessible, period. second, i find it confusing to keep track of what the heck is in there. i can handle remembering up to two buffers (X & ctrl+c) but only when im using both explicitly at the time. otherwise, i generally only bother remembering 1 (whichever ive used more recently)
[16:44] <seele> but by default, the copy buffer would work in the most simple way, explicit copy and paste with only one buffer
[16:45] <ScottK> Even better.  I have this turned off in klipper, but it does it anyway.
[16:52] <Sput> not here
[16:53] <ScottK> You're on a later KDE release than I am.
[16:53]  * JontheEchidna can't live without his klipper
[16:55]  * ScottK wonders if Klipper in 4.4 uses to new systray protocol yet?
[16:55] <ScottK> If it does, it should be very usable by Ubuntu people.
[16:56] <maco> what does that mean?
[16:56] <jussi01> maco: me likey
[16:56] <maco> jussi01: hmm like what?
[16:57] <jussi01> maco: tab fail, was aimed at seele
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: it doesn't, sadly :(
[16:57] <ScottK> maco: Since Ayatana is implementing the new systray protocol KDE developed for Gnome in this cycle, on Lucid, anything that uses the new protocol should appear 'native' independent of which DE is was designed for
[16:57] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Oh well.
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> KMix, Konversation, KNetworkManager, KGpg and that keyboard layout switcher are all using the new protocol
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> If only KMail and Klipper would get the feature I'd be totally xembed-free
[16:58] <ScottK> Sput: ^^^ You need to be on this list.
[16:59] <Sput> ScottK: I know, I'm looking into it
[16:59] <ScottK> Yes, just encouraging you ....
[16:59] <Sput> at least that one blog entry on gnome planet finally pointed me to some docs for the dbus protocol :P
[16:59] <Sput> since there's no docs on techbase
[16:59] <Sput> only for using the KDE lib, which is hard if you try to support older KDEs as well (and non-KDE)
[17:00] <Sput> so I intend to use pure dbus, which hopefully means that it works even with no KDE integration
[17:01] <ScottK> Nice
[17:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: kubuntu-notification-helper built on armel when I retried it.
[17:01] <Sput> I think it should be possible to check if a certain dbus service is around, and automatically enable that one
[17:01] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: btw, the device notifier can go in the systray for 4.4, and though there's a bug right now it should hide until there's a new device
[17:01] <Sput> maybe I'll do the same for notifications
[17:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Excellent.  That's what I'd like to see.
[17:01] <JontheEchidna> So assuming the bug is fixed the device notifier can go in the tray
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> and will remain hidden until needed
[17:02] <Sput> oh. I've never noticed that the device notifier wandered into the tray :)
[17:02] <Sput> I used to have this plasmoid
[17:03] <ScottK> Hit a roadblock on armel: amarok: libnjb-dev: Depends: libnjb5 (= 2.2.5-4.2ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> It still is a plasmoid. You can put certain plasmoids into the tray now though
[17:03] <ScottK> libnjb is built though.  No idea why it's not installable.
[17:05] <nixternal> ok, how do I stop the kglobalaccel notifications from popping up?
[17:06] <JontheEchidna> System Settings -> Notifications -> kglobalaccel from the combobox I believe
[17:06] <nixternal> hah, never ind
[17:06] <nixternal> yeah
[17:06] <nixternal> just found it right when I asked
[17:06] <nixternal> KDE Global Shortcuts Daemon to be exact :)
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> I like it's KDE Daemon description: "No daemon. No hotkeys"
[17:07] <nixternal> haha
[17:08] <ghostcube> heh
[17:11] <seele> hmm.. i guess no resolution on the klipper thing? heh
[17:12] <seele> ScottK: answers are never easy :)
[17:12] <ScottK> seele: Of course not.  That's why I called you.
[17:31] <nixternal> is there a fix for the nepomuk not starting up issue with b1?
[17:37] <ScottK> nixternal: virtuoso 6.0.1
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> in theory soprano-backend-sesame would also work
[17:38] <ScottK> If you like slow
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> sesame was decent speed, but a memory eating cow with a questionable license
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> plus you have to put a symlink to some java stuff somewhere to get it to work
[17:44] <sabdfl> markey: sigh
[17:48] <Daskreech> rickspencer3 doesn't hang out here anymore?
[17:50] <annma> hi people
[17:50] <sandsmark> sup
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> Hi
[17:50] <annma> There's a typo in topic
[17:50] <annma> hey JontheEchidna the best KDE debug man
[17:50] <annma> thanks JontheEchidna
[17:50] <sandsmark> JontheEchidna++
[17:50] <annma> :)
[17:51] <Mamarok> poor Quintasan, missing that r
[17:51] <Mamarok> a MOTU, not an
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> oops
[17:51] <annma> perfect
[17:52] <JontheEchidna> I guess it depends on the way you say it: "em oh tee u" or Master of the Universe"
[17:52] <annma> will you ship 4.4 on Lucid?
[17:52] <JontheEchidna> That is the plan
[17:52] <sandsmark> JontheEchidna: btw, did my patch work for you as-is?
[17:52] <sandsmark> lex79 said he had to re-diff against my branch on gitorious, or something
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we just took a diff from pure Qt 4.6.0 to your branch
[17:53] <sandsmark> ok, nice
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> It's been working well
[17:53] <sandsmark> (I guess because I worked against the kde-qt...)
[17:53] <sandsmark> awesome
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> Might be a good idea to announce it to kde-packager or somesuch now
[17:54] <sandsmark> hmm, yeah
[17:55] <sandsmark> maybe I should ask toma or someone who knows all the knooks to do it for me
[17:55] <sandsmark> I'll blog about it now, anyways
[17:55] <sandsmark> (yay, blogging, the communication medium of the future :-D)
[17:56] <annma> Planet KDE is the future happening
[17:56] <JontheEchidna> blogging; the clipboard of the future :P
[17:56] <sandsmark> hrhr
[17:56] <sandsmark> annma: well, I'm pretty damn impressed by the stuff happening in Qt lately ...
[17:57] <sandsmark> portability to normal was yesterday, today we're porting to absurd platforms :-P
[17:57] <sandsmark> er, to normal platforms
[17:57] <annma> lol
[17:57] <toma> sandsmark: ?
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> I thought I saw an iphone branch in gitorious for Qt today
[17:57] <sandsmark> toma: about the patch I made to Qt
[17:58] <sandsmark> toma: you were so nice helping me with the temporary Qt release, so I thought I'd abuse your kind heart a bit more... :_P
[17:58] <sandsmark> er, Phonon release
[17:58]  * sandsmark needs caffeine
[17:58] <toma> sandsmark: abuse me for another tarball of phonon?
[17:58] <sandsmark> toma: no, for announcing the patch to the right lists
[17:59] <sandsmark> (and uploading the patch somewhere, maybe?)
[17:59] <toma> oh. i can write mails for you, sure.
[17:59] <nixternal> ScottK: is virtuoso packaged anywhere?
[17:59] <toma> and put the patch near the phonon tarball
[17:59] <sandsmark> awesome :-)
[18:00] <toma> i'm back in 30m or so
[18:01] <sandsmark> k
[18:01] <ScottK> nixternal: Yes.  Dunno where.
[18:08] <nixternal> only thing I find on virtuoso on LP is the upstream product page...hrmm
[18:08] <ScottK> I think in Debian qt-kde svn maybe
[18:10] <nixternal> you mean 6.0.0 right? I can't even find a 6.0.1 source
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> 6.0.1 hasn't been released yet, but it will be the first 6-series release that nepomuk is compatible with
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> 5.x works, I hear
[18:11] <maelcum|uni> is 6.x supposed to work? i remember a blog post saying that for now the latest 5.x version should be used.
[18:11] <maelcum|uni> question answered...
[18:11] <toma> JontheEchidna is spot on
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[18:12] <nixternal> toma: how is mailody coming along?
[18:12] <toma> next subject please
[18:12] <nixternal> haha
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> sandsmark: so today is (was?) the big finals day?
[18:16] <sandsmark> yup
[18:16] <sandsmark> tomorrow I'm going to spend 7+ hours on a train, without internet :-P
[18:16] <sandsmark> (but with power and a laptop, last trip I ported filelight, not sure what I'm going to do this time)
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> fun
[18:16] <sandsmark> heh, that is one word for it :-P
[18:18] <ScottK> Port klipper to the new systray protocol?
[18:19] <sandsmark> isn't it already?
[18:19] <sandsmark> I thought I saw that, might have been dreaming
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> not as of 4.3.80
[18:19] <sandsmark> hmm
[18:20]  * JontheEchidna is always living in snapshots because his computer is too weak to compile all of KDE every day
[18:56] <toma> sandsmark: i'm back, let me know if I can do anything
[18:56] <annma> klipper keeps going away from systray
[18:57] <annma> like escaping
[18:57] <annma> truly I also would when I think of it
[19:09] <Daskreech> seele: ping
[19:10] <Daskreech> ScottK: we are packaging OpenLinks Virtuoso ?
[19:10] <ScottK> Daskreech: Yes, but for some value of we that doesn't include me doing any actual work.
[19:11] <Daskreech> ScottK: I can agree fully with that statement :-D
[19:12] <seele> Daskreech: pong
[19:13] <Daskreech> seele: Have you seen Dr Konqi in KDE 4.4 >
[19:13] <Daskreech> ?
[19:14] <seele> the new one? yes
[19:14] <seele> er, how is it different from 4.3
[19:15] <seele> i just know the dev was going to change some logic so there arent as many bug reports
[19:15] <Daskreech> Well it doesn't ask for Bug Information. It checkes for duplicates based on the backtrace
[19:15] <annma> it tells the user more info about the current backtrace
[19:15] <annma> it tells when it's useless
[19:15] <Daskreech> I was just asking about the wording based on found duplicates.
[19:15] <Daskreech> annma: I think it did that before but it's certainly nicer about it now
[19:16] <annma> I don't think it did before
[19:16] <ghostcube> hmm it did
[19:16] <annma> what do you think is wrong about the wording?
[19:16] <ghostcube> from 4.3.x
[19:16] <annma> ah 4.3
[19:16] <annma> sure
[19:16] <annma> 4.3 is current stable
[19:16] <Daskreech> seele: It gives you a list of duplicates and then says See if your bug has already been reported. Double click a report in the list and compare it to yours. You can suggest that your crash is a duplicate of that report or directly attach your information to it.
[19:17] <annma> Daskreech: it makes a huge difference in bug reports triaging
[19:17] <annma> maybe it should add a distro check ;)
[19:17] <Daskreech> annma: It does a distro check
[19:17] <ghostcube> hmmm after a while these big lock and logoff icons look ok o.O
[19:18] <annma> we got a bug with more than 200 dupes for beta 1
[19:18] <seele_> Daskreech: i didnt get your last message, x crashed
[19:18] <Daskreech> Hooray for X sucking :)
[19:18] <Daskreech> seele: It gives you a list of duplicates and then says See if your bug has already been reported. Double click a report in the list and compare it to yours. You can suggest that your crash is a duplicate of that report or directly attach your information to it.
[19:18] <seele_> heh
[19:18] <annma> seele_: did it give you a nice dialog?
[19:19] <Daskreech> annma: lol
[19:19] <seele_> Daskreech: ok.. do you have a question?
[19:19] <ghostcube> something like xserver crashed for unknown reason bt useless pls install following dbg packages :D
[19:20] <Daskreech> seele_: Right the method of checking it as as duplicate involves clicking the duplicate you are interested in. Clicking a button to bring up a dialog with more information and then at the bottom of that clicking mark as duplicate.
[19:21] <ScottK> Riddell: Do you have access to an ia64 porter box?
[19:21] <Daskreech> seele_: Does that wording speak to that for you? It didn't to me but I'm not an average user/reporter nor a usabilty trained eye
[19:21] <seele> Daskreech: i'm not running 4.4 so i can't see the dialog to know
[19:22] <seele> in general, you shouldnt need to give instructions like "click here, select that"
[19:22] <Daskreech> seele: screenshots welcome?
[19:22] <seele> sure?
[19:22] <Daskreech> alright let me crash something
[19:22] <seele> also, have you brought this up with the dev first?
[19:22] <ghostcube> hmmm quassel
[19:22] <seele> too many people come to me asking to change a UI and they never talk to the original dev
[19:23] <seele> Sput: by chance did you ever count how many people were using quassel on freenode before we included it by default in kubuntu?
[19:23] <Daskreech> seele: just came from a discussion with them. I agree with the workflow but it only became apparent to me what to do after running through it once. I had expected that if I selected the duplicate entry and clicked next it would be earmarked as a duplicate
[19:23] <seele> Sput: i notice a lot more quassel users now than a year ago
[19:23] <seele> Daskreech: hard to say without me using/seeing it
[19:24] <seele> the fact that you learned the process after doing it once isn't bad. it would be a problem if you were still confused after you did it a few times
[19:24] <Daskreech> seele: I know screenshots coming as soon as I get krunner to crash
[19:24] <Daskreech> seele: Ok I suspect that's fine then. It does have prompts before you send off to alert you that it hasn't been marked as a duplicate
[19:25] <seele> that's not to say the instructions or dialog could be improved.. but if it makes sense after using it once, then it might not be as bad as you think
[19:25] <seele> you can't make things highly functional and stupid easy
[19:26] <seele> drkonqi does a lot of things, it really surprised me how many user-necessary steps there are to submitting a bug
[19:26] <Daskreech> seele: I know i didn't think overall it was bad and I understand the mindset behind it. I was as you say just seeing if the wording could be improved. They lower the barrier to submitting good bugs the better
[19:26] <seele> ugh kpackagekit
[19:27] <Daskreech> I know I haven't even bothered to file bugs/papercuts against it since I'd need to put aside a chunk of day
[19:27] <Daskreech> Though I am spending a lot of today filing bugs on all the apps I can in KDE 4.4
[19:28] <seele> hmm.. does anyone else have weird focus problems with the kubuntu login screen? i can't tell if it is a problem in karmic or just from my upgrades
[19:28] <Daskreech> seele: I do
[19:28] <seele> when you log in, the cursor is blinking in the password field, but it isn't in focus so you cant type
[19:28] <nixternal> seele: where it looks liek the password is selected, but when you type nothing happens?
[19:28] <nixternal> yeah
[19:28] <seele> ah hah.. sweet
[19:28] <nixternal> I get that from time-to-time, but not all of the time
[19:28] <seele> papercut here we come :P
[19:29] <seele> nixternal: yeah, like only sometimes
[19:29] <Daskreech> seele: That's happened to me twice and once when I started typing the field suddenly lost focus
[19:29] <nixternal> do you have encrypted /home?
[19:29] <nixternal> I think I only notice it on my desktop that has an encrypted /home
[19:29] <seele> nixternal: nope
[19:29] <seele> nixternal: is yours an upgrade or fresh install?
[19:30] <Daskreech> seele: Is there a way to mark a bug as a usabilty bug in b.k.o ?
[19:30] <nixternal> fresh, thought it happens on an upgrade as well
[19:30] <nixternal> s/thought/though/
[19:30] <seele> Daskreech: i dont think there is a usability category, there is a hig category but that's out of date
[19:31] <seele> Daskreech: usually people put Usability: before the title so you can search on it
[19:31] <Daskreech> Thanks
[19:37] <seele> is it just me or does launchpad look broken in firefox?
[19:40] <ghostcube> seele, looks borked
[19:52] <ghostcube> a fly has peed me into my tft now a pix is brown o.O
[19:52] <ghostcube> wth
[19:56] <refic> Riddell: hmm.. how's the daily thing?
[20:41] <Sput> seele: I have no stats (and I don't tend to CTCP VERSION as it's considered rude), but yeah, there's a lot of Quassel users around
[20:41] <Sput> kubuntu certainly helped a lot with that :)
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> yay, libknotificationitem1 is rdepend free
[20:52] <ghostcube> Sput, yeah Quassel is ok but it doesnt like Qt 4.6 heh
[20:52] <ghostcube> but else it works fine
[21:11] <Sput> ghostcube: there's the occasional crash, other than that it should be ok with 4.6 if ScottK has bumped the package meanwhile :)
[21:11] <Sput> I've fixed the graphical glitches we had (whitespace in ChatView)
[21:12] <ScottK> Sput: Did you get the gettext patches sorted?
[21:13] <Sput> ScottK: scarabeus wanted to look into that, he hasn't done it yet I think
[21:13] <ScottK> OK.
[21:13]  * ScottK marks this on TODO
[21:14] <Sput> I think he said that it looked OK at first glance, but wanted to figure out how it was done and chat some more with dpm probably
[21:14] <Sput> but I was a bit out of the loop lately.
[21:16] <jbicha> I've been unable to start KDE since upgrading to 4.3.80, this is a known issue, right?
[21:27] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I am unable to enable the 'Aggregate and compress CSS files' option in Drupal, we'll need to prod a sysadmin to do so :/
[21:28] <ryanakca> Anybody know if Lex has virtuoso packages available for testing?
[21:28] <Quintasan> ryanakca: so, there is a virtuoso package but it won't work
[21:29] <Quintasan> ryanakca: there is a bug with virtuoso 6.0 which will be fixed with 6.0.1 release which is soon
[21:29] <Quintasan> ryanakca: I wanted to compile 5.0.12 but there is no point in doing this
[21:56] <Daskreech> jbicha: no it's not
[21:57] <jbicha> Plasma::AppletPrivate::mainConfigGroup: requesting config for "Battery Monitor" without a containment!
[21:57] <ScottK> Lure_: I just retried eet on all archs.
[22:00] <Daskreech> jbicha: mv ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-appletsrc ~/plasma-appletsrc.4.3.80
[22:00] <Daskreech> jbicha: Then try login again
[22:02] <ryanakca> Quintasan: bummer. I'll set the nepomuk backend to sesame2 or something then
[22:02] <jbicha> Daskreech: that still doesn't work, I'm installing the -dbg packages now so I can file a bug
[22:02] <ryanakca> Quintasan: thanks
[22:03] <Quintasan> ryanakca: you're welcome :)
[22:04] <Daskreech> jbicha: mv the plasmarc file as well
[22:05] <Quintasan> ulysses__: ping
[22:06] <jbicha> Daskreech: that doesn't work either, I have experienced this on 2 diff computers with a blank profile
[22:06] <Quintasan> ulysses__: or well whatever, I'll be around for few hours so if you feel like finishing smooth tasks let me know
[22:06] <Daskreech> jbicha: where did you get the packages from?
[22:06] <jbicha> I've been stuck using Gnome for the past week ;-)
[22:07] <jbicha> I am using Lucid right now, but I also had the problem in Karmic using the backports PPA
[22:08] <Daskreech> Far as I know 4.3.80 isn't in the backports PPA
[22:09] <jbicha> well, the beta PPA, I get them confused http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.4-beta-1
[22:10] <Daskreech> jbicha: Try running a dist-upgrade. It sounds as if you have some packages broken. Ensure you have kubuntu-desktop installed. That messes me up from time to time
[22:10] <Daskreech> some install removes it and it depends on some package which never gets pulled in till I reinstall kubuntu-desktop
[22:14] <jbicha> Daskreech: thanks, it looks like I was missing kubuntu-default-settings
[22:14] <jbicha> I think there's probably an underlying bug there but this helps
[22:14]  * jbicha logging out of Gnome
[22:15] <Daskreech> sabdfl1: The prequel!
[22:15] <sabdfl1> ?
[22:15] <Daskreech> sadfl1 The prequel to sabdl. Sorry Movie joke
[22:16] <Daskreech> And all is restored :)
[22:16] <sabdfl> ah :-)
[22:21] <Quintasan> :D
[22:26] <ScottK> Riddell: kdepim built, so just waiting on armarok to finish for Kubuntu desktop/netbook to be current on armel.
[22:26] <ScottK> Looks like it's close.
[22:28] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you please kick off an armel Kubuntu Netbook image in ~90 minutes?
[22:36] <ScottK> Amarok built too.
[22:37] <ScottK> Riddell: \o/ - I think we're fully built on armel.
[22:37] <ScottK> Quick make some isos before JontheEchidna uploads something and breaks it.
[22:37] <Riddell> ScottK: awooga
[22:37] <ScottK> So after the next publisher run we should be good for some images.
[22:38] <ScottK> We haven't had any since October, so please give them a run.
[22:39] <ScottK> Gotta run, back later.
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: I found out why kdepim-runtime needs kdebase-runtime
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> For some reason shlibdeps is saying that kdepimlibs5 needs to depend on the phonon package, even though it is a metapackage that hasn't had anything in it since Qt 4.5 times
[23:22] <crimsun> do you need to unset DH_OPTIONS ?
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> phonon brings in phonon-backend-xine, which brings in kcm-phonon-xine which needs the kdebase-runtime
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> unset DH_OPTIONS?
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> here's the rules file: http://pastebin.com/f4b70f985
[23:24] <JontheEchidna> maybe adding -xphonon to the DEB_DH_SHLIBDEPS_ARGS_ALL list would fix things?
[23:39] <ulysses__> Quintasan: I'm here now
[23:41] <Quintasan> ulysses__: waiting smooth tasks to be compatible with !kde ￼ 4.4 !linux ￼ @ Identi.ca, go go go with package and fame awaits you :P
[23:43] <ulysses__> :)
[23:44] <ulysses__> and what about karmic, with kde 4.3.1?
[23:58] <DanaG> hmm, is the final Kubuntu kde4.4 going to have the new PulseAudio integration features?