[07:40] <mac_v> Amaranth: hi... is it a known Lucid bug that the system starts without an window manager? i'm having to reload compiz every time i boot up...
[08:17] <pitti> Good morning
[08:17] <pitti> baptistemm: backlight working> great!
[08:17] <pitti> baptistemm: libhal* doesn't matter
[08:41] <baptistemm> pitti, okay nice
[08:41] <baptistemm> I don't recall what is my hardware but I can provide it to you it you care
[08:41] <pitti> baptistemm: wouldn't be of much help to me, I think
[08:42] <baptistemm> I was able to change the backlight and I had the notification working aslo
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:52] <pitti> good morning chrisccoulson
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:53] <pitti> I'm great, thank you! how about you?
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good too thanks. only half a day at work to go before the weekend starts :)
[08:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: when will you start into holidays?
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> i start on christmas eve. i used all my holiday allowance up this year already ;)
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> when do you start?
[08:56] <pitti> on the 24th
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - so, you'll still be around next week then ;)
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> i've heard it's going to be fairly quiet in here
[09:00] <pitti> right, sounds great for getting stuff done :)
[09:22] <seb128> hey there
[09:24] <seb128> I'm a bit late today but with a new screen
[09:24] <baptistemm> Santa was coming earlier this year ? :)
[09:24] <seb128> right
[09:25] <seb128> brb need to reboot to try something
[09:25] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:29] <mvo> come back seb!
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: what did you got?
[09:30] <Ng> mdz: fwiw, you asked yesterday if anyone else was getting "cannot remove.... modules.*map" from update-initramfs. just did my morning updates and ntfs-3g tripped the update-initramfs trigger and I got that message
[09:31] <Ng> hmm, that was supposed to go to #ubuntu-devel, my bad
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: how's the new screen working then?
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: (FTR, I fixed the lucid chroots, and committed an ubuntu-fat-chroot fix to divert update-alternatives, to permanently fix the dist-upgrade problem0
[09:34] <seb128> hey mvo chrisccoulson pitti
[09:34] <seb128> mvo, got a 24" flat screen
[09:35] <mvo> seb128: nice! what did you have before?
[09:35] <pitti> sweet
[09:35] <seb128> mvo, got a 24" flat screen to replace a 19" one
[09:35] <mvo> sweet
[09:35] <seb128> I like it ;-)
[09:35] <mvo> what model/brand is it?
[09:35] <seb128> it's much better than using laptop + 19" that I was doing this week
[09:35] <seb128> I've space and no screen confusion ;-)
[09:36] <seb128> Iiayama prolite e2407hds
[09:36] <mpt> mvo, hi, did you see my question about apt+http: yesterday?
[09:36] <mvo> mpt: no, sorry
[09:36] <seb128> pitti, (thanks)
[09:37] <mvo> mpt: but apt+http is something we do not really support for security reasons, it lets you add any repository
[09:37] <mvo> mpt: and that is not something we want to make too easy (especially triggering it from a website)
[09:37] <mpt> mvo, I thought we had a whitelist for that. Or am I confusing it with something else?
[09:38] <mvo> oh, hold on
[09:39] <mvo> we solved the whitelist with a different mechanism (the channel= parameter to apturl)
[09:39] <mvo> (unless I'm confused which is quite possible, but not that likely)
[09:40] <mpt> mvo, the channel= parameter isn't described in the man page, so I haven't included it in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#apturl> yet. Is it documented anywhere?
[09:40] <mvo> mpt: could you please paste again what you asked yesterday? I don't have logs it seems
[09:41] <pitti> mvo: (irclogs.ubuntu.com FTW :) )
 mvo_, are URLs of the form "apt+http://launchpad.net/~mvo/ppa?package=2vcard" actually supposed to be implemented at the moment? Firefox gives me an error when I try to open one, and won't let me set up apturl to handle it.
 ("Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (apt+http) isn't associated with any program.")
[09:41] <mpt> that's all :-)
[09:43] <mvo> mpt: ok, thanks. I look at the code in some minutes (need to finish some apt coding first) and come back with answer from code (and not memory)
[09:43] <mpt> ok, thanks
[09:43] <mpt> This apturl replacement is turning out to be ever so slightly more complex than I thought it would be :-)
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - will you have time to review any SRU's today?
[09:59] <pitti> I counter the question with: did you upload anythign which should be processed soon?
[10:00] <pitti> I can make some time, yes
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i uploaded transmission a couple of days agoand robert_ancell uploaded a gcalctool update as well
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> oops, there was meant to be a carriage return somewhere in there
[10:01] <mvo> mpt: ok, so the README has a tiny bit of information about channel, that is the mechanism used for adding trusted third parties (like partner or in the future other repos). the apt+http stuff is disabled in the source
[10:02] <mvo> mpt: I'm updating the man-page now
[10:04] <mpt> mvo, can you send me the diff so I can design the replacement? :-)
[10:04] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/343732/
[10:31] <mpt> thanks mvo (and "Avaialble" should be "Available")
[10:32] <mvo> mpt: thanks, fixed
[12:20] <mpt> mvo, if you have a few spare minutes, could you have a quick look at the "Custom package lists" and "Launching and navigating from apt: links" sections to check that they make sense? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#custom-list
[13:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks for processing the transmission SRU :)
[14:18] <pitti> Riddell: would you mind adding some kubuntu status to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
[14:21] <mac_v> tedg: hi... hope UX folks would consider Bug 498182 ;) .. this menu isnt a single one as the previous items :)
[14:22] <dobey> pitti: around? :)
[14:23] <tedg> mac_v: It's not going to be a huge priority as vertical panels aren't in default setups.
[14:24] <mac_v> tedg: yeah , i know but atleast hope its not a "wont fix" like the rest ;)
[14:24] <dobey> it's a trivial fix though
[14:24] <Amaranth> mac_v: starting without a WM is certainly not supposed to happen (works fine here)
[14:25] <Amaranth> mac_v: file a bug against gnome-session, I guess
[14:25] <mac_v> tedg: it took quite a while for me to realize that rhythmbox was being sent there...
[14:25] <tedg> mac_v: Not a "wont fix" but may end up being a "dont' have time to fix" :)
[14:25] <mac_v> Amaranth: gnome-session? it happens everytime for me :(
[14:25] <Amaranth> right, gnome-session in responsible for starting a WM
[14:26] <Amaranth> you wouldn't blame a WM for nothing telling it to start, would you? :)
[14:26] <mac_v> Amaranth: hehe  , nope.. ;) .. i thought it was a side effect of moving plugins to the -extra package , and that it was not starting since ,certain plugins are missing
[14:27] <Amaranth> no no, compiz will start no matter how badly its configuration is screwed up as long as you don't manage to crash it
[14:27] <mac_v> ah , ok
[14:28] <mac_v> tedg:  "dont' have time to fix" :( .. dobey mentions its a simple fix , damn if only i knew how , i'd submit a patch :/
[14:36] <dobey> mac_v: look at the source in gnome-panel for the menu applet thingy
[14:37] <dobey> mac_v: i think it just rotates the whole menu bar
[14:37] <dobey> mac_v: but you need to rotate a different direction depending on which side the panel is on
[14:38] <mac_v> dobey: ah , right the gnome-menu... will check it out :)  thanks
[14:39] <kenvandine> mac_v, PANEL_ORIENTATION_LEFT and PANEL_ORIENTATION_RIGHT in panel-menu-bar.c
[14:40] <kenvandine> not sure how trival it is to add that to indicator-applet, but i would imagine easy
[14:41] <mac_v> cool , will test/try it out ...
[14:58] <pitti> dobey: hi
[15:00] <dobey> pitti: hey. care to poke at a couple SRUs for me? haven't seen any activity on them in a few days, and was wondering how to push them along and get them through
[15:00] <pitti> dobey: we by and large need someone to confirm that the package still works and fixes the bug
[15:01] <dobey> pitti: hrmm, ok
[15:01] <pitti> feel free to ask in the bugs, of course
[15:05] <mvo> its snowing!
[15:05]  * mvo feels like christmas already
[15:09] <pitti> snowing here since yesterday, too; everything is bright white
[15:12] <rickspencer3> good morning pitti, I hope you are enjoying the snow
[15:13] <rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, Riddell, bryce_, etc... shall we cancel the team meeting for next Tuesday? Not many of us will be here I think
[15:13] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[15:14] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm enjoying it from inside :)
[15:14] <Riddell> rickspencer3: aren't you on holiday anyway?
[15:14] <pitti> rickspencer3: meeting> makes sense, I think
[15:14]  * pitti looks forward to having three quiet days to get stuff done
[15:14] <rickspencer3> Riddell, yes, today is my last non-holiday day, but I thought you guyses might want to meet anyway
[15:23] <kenvandine> pitti, it should be snowing here in about an hour
[15:24] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, if you were writing some code with Quidgets, and you were going to make a function call that brought up a dialog to collect a string as input from a user ...
[15:24] <rickspencer3> what would you expect that function call to be named?
[15:25] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, eeejay, didrocks, anybody? ^
[15:25]  * rickspencer3 practices participatory design ;)
[15:26] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:26] <kenvandine> perhaps something that starts with raise_
[15:26] <kenvandine> nah
[15:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: how many similar things do you have? (a yes/no dialog, info/error messages, etc.)
[15:26] <kenvandine> sounds like exception handling
[15:27] <pitti> sounds very similar to standard message box use cases
[15:27] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes, I'm thinking you'll be able to get:L string, number, date, yes/no
[15:27] <rickspencer3> yes, and also just show a message box
[15:28] <pitti> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkMessageDialog.html is already quite nice -- it allows you to specify arbitrary buttons, etc.
[15:29] <rickspencer3> pitti, nah, it's too hard
[15:29] <rickspencer3> it should be:
[15:29] <rickspencer3> response, input = somefunction(a couple of params)
[15:29] <rickspencer3> so I need to wrap up messagedialog
[15:29] <pitti> so I'd like to see an equivalent gtk_input_dialog(InputDialog.DATE, "when is your birthday?", InputDialog.OK | InputDialog.Cancel)
[15:29] <rickspencer3> (not that I'll take away message dialog)
[15:29] <rickspencer3> right
[15:31] <pitti> but I wouldn't do an int_input_dialog, date_input_dialog, etc.
[15:31] <rickspencer3> pitti, why not?
[15:32] <pitti> since these might get different arguments and thus are harder to remember/error prone
[15:32] <rickspencer3> oh, I see
[15:32] <pitti> maybe it's just me, but I usually don't like to encode data types in function arguments
[15:32] <rickspencer3> no, they should all have the exact same arguments
[15:32] <pitti> but of course this is all bikeshedding, I don't have a scientific argument :)
[15:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, mmm
[15:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: in the general case you might want "any string"
[15:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, I was asking for bikeshedding, I'm building a bike shed ;)
[15:32] <pitti> but you might hand over a type flag, a regexp, etc.
[15:33] <rickspencer3> but I think, perhaps, pitti you are rather more systematic than the user I am targetting
[15:33] <pitti> one day I might need a message box which lets me enter [a-z_]\w+
[15:33] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, at which point you can write that yourself ;)
[15:33] <pitti> but of couse this might be a little too complex
[15:33] <rickspencer3> I'm thinking of someone who is new pygtk and is used to alert("boo");
[15:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: ah, for date you actually want to show a calendar applet, and no input line
[15:34] <rickspencer3> yes
[15:34] <rickspencer3> here's what I'll do, I think
[15:34] <rickspencer3> you can go:
[15:34] <pitti> right, that should be a different function, since it looks totally different
[15:34] <rickspencer3> result, date = quidgets.prompt.date_prompt()
[15:34] <pitti> input_string(title, text), input_date(title, text), etc.
[15:35] <rickspencer3> ^notice that I am handling the run(), etc... for the programmer
[15:35] <pitti> s/string/line/ perhaps, too
[15:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, what do you think of a prompt namespace in the library?
[15:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: no firm opinion, I think
[15:36] <pitti> just that I don't like prompt.date_prompt()
[15:36] <pitti> either prompt.date() or .date_prompt()
[15:36] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[15:36] <pitti> (namespace name duplication)
[15:36] <rickspencer3> pitti, , right
[15:36] <rickspencer3> let me start with that
[15:37] <rickspencer3> I'll start with string, data, yes/no
[15:37] <rickspencer3> s/data/date
[15:37] <pitti> incidentally, in apport I have something similar for hooks
[15:38] <pitti> python -c 'import apport.ui; help(apport.ui.HookUI)'
[15:40] <didrocks> prompt.date() seems good to me :)
[15:44] <seb128> hum
[15:44] <seb128> tedg, hey
[15:44] <seb128> tedg, so the rhythmbox icon issue is that the icon is in an app dir
[15:44] <seb128> which works when the code is running from the application side...
[15:44] <seb128> but the applet doesn't look in the /usr/share/rhythmbox dir
[15:44] <tedg> seb128: Yes, so we need to allow apps to specify those directories.
[15:45] <seb128> right
[15:45] <tedg> seb128: And then we have to remove and add them appropriately (which is the harder part)
[15:45] <seb128> the code to show play, stop button seems to doesn't work either
[15:45] <seb128> your example is not clear
[15:45] <seb128> should apps use set_icon
[15:45] <seb128> or set_attention_icon?
[15:45] <seb128> you use the second in your example
[15:46] <tedg> They're different icons.  One is for attention, the other is the standard case.
[15:46] <seb128> but I would think the first is the one to use
[15:46] <seb128> what is attention?
[15:46] <seb128> the api is not clear about that
[15:46] <seb128> the rhythmbox code set that one
[15:46] <seb128> to play or pause
[15:46] <seb128> which are in the standard dir
[15:46] <seb128> but that doesn't work
[15:46] <seb128> but maybe it's never is the attention status
[15:46] <seb128> ?
[15:47] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[15:47] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm on vac next week
[15:47] <seb128> so no meeting for me in any case
[15:47] <seb128> (to reply to earlier question, sorry I was not in front on the computer running IRC)
[15:47] <tedg> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~ted/libappindicator/current/AppIndicator.html#AppIndicator--attention-icon-name
[15:47] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[15:48] <seb128> tedg, when should attention be used?
[15:48] <tedg> seb128: When you want to show that icon :)
[15:48] <seb128> tedg, the attention icon is used for the attention status...great
[15:48] <seb128> I wouldn't have guessed from the name
[15:48] <seb128> well, why should I set that rather than just change the icon?
[15:48] <seb128> what is asking for attention?
[15:48] <jcastro> tedg: shall I assign the bug to you? It would be a shame to be on holiday with a broken rhythmbox icon
[15:48] <seb128> do you have a concrete example?
[15:48] <tedg> seb128: Because KDE people like it that way :)
[15:49] <seb128> tedg, sorry but it's not clear to me still
[15:49] <seb128> I don't understand when I'm supposed to set the attention status
[15:49] <tedg> seb128: I'm not a fan of it, but I think it's a convinience thing.  Like you can just set the state and not worry about icons.
[15:49] <seb128> well
[15:49] <tedg> seb128: Like Evolution saying it has new mail.
[15:49] <seb128> the rhythmbox change sets the attention icon to play and pause
[15:49] <seb128> but that doesn't work
[15:49] <seb128> the icon never change
[15:50] <seb128> I'm not sure if that's a stack bug
[15:50] <seb128> or if the attention status is a special case to trigger
[15:50] <seb128> and how to trigger it
[15:50] <seb128> I can do play and pause and still get the no found icon
[15:50] <seb128> the play and pause icons are standard dir ones
[15:50] <seb128> ie not in the rhythmbox dir
[15:51] <tedg> seb128: I'm not sure.  Are you talking about the icons in the menu now?
[15:51] <seb128> no
[15:51] <seb128> I was trying to understand the rhythmbox change
[15:51] <seb128> ie does set the status icon
[15:52] <kenvandine> tedg, when there is a song change or state change, it changes the icon
[15:52] <seb128> and the api is not clear about when that should happen
[15:52] <seb128> and the actual icon is never displayed
[15:52] <seb128> I'm trying to understand why
[15:52] <seb128> also the padding makes icons look weird
[15:52] <kenvandine> seb128, i tried changing every place that set the icon to use a common one that should be found and it still never set it
[15:52] <seb128> not sure if that's a bug
[15:53] <seb128> kenvandine, it works if I copy the /usr/share/rhythmbox/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/rhythmbox-notplaying.svg
[15:53] <kenvandine> seb128, but using the same icon in a python example works
[15:53] <seb128> to /usr/share/libindicator/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/
[15:53] <kenvandine> oh really?
[15:53] <kenvandine> humm
[15:53] <seb128> it's just that the code runs under the wrong namespace
[15:53] <seb128> ie doesn't find custom rhythmbox icons
[15:53] <kenvandine> in fact, in a python example i set it to the rhythmbox icon
[15:53] <kenvandine> and it worked
[15:53] <kenvandine> which i thought was weird
[15:54] <kenvandine> just passed "rhythmbox" as icon-name
[15:54] <kenvandine> so i suspect in the rhythmbox case, it is because it is setting attention
[15:54] <kenvandine> maybe that only uses icons in /usr/share/libindicator/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/ ?
[15:54] <kenvandine> try making it not set attention and see if it works
[15:55] <seb128> kenvandine, try sudo cp /usr/share/rhythmbox/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/rhythmbox-notplaying.svg /usr/share/libindicator/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/ and run it
[15:55] <seb128> it works there
[15:55] <seb128> it = rhythmbox
[15:55] <seb128> the patch uses rhythmbox-notplaying naming
[15:55] <seb128> not rhythmbox
[15:56] <kenvandine> yeah, i am just wondering if it wasn't setting attention if it would find it
[15:56] <seb128> not
[15:56] <seb128> it's in /usr/share/rhythmbox
[15:56] <seb128> not /usr/share/icons...
[15:57] <seb128> the applet doesn't use custom rhythmbox directory...
[15:57] <seb128> anyway I need to run for some errands now
[15:57] <seb128> be back later!
[15:57] <kenvandine> i see
[15:57] <seb128> we can change the icon to use rhythmbox for now
[15:57] <seb128> that one would like work
[15:58] <seb128> likely
[15:58] <kenvandine> i tried that and it didn't
[15:58] <seb128> weird
[15:58] <kenvandine> in rb
[15:58] <kenvandine> but it does in my example
[15:58] <seb128> so maybe it only uses /usr/share/libindicator/icons
[15:58] <seb128> for some reason
[15:58] <kenvandine> which is why i suspect it is related to attention
[15:58] <seb128> tomboy works though
[15:58] <seb128> it must be a rhythmbox issue
[15:58] <seb128> could be
[15:58] <seb128> I will play with that when I'm back
[15:59] <seb128> bbl
[16:07] <kenvandine> tedg, if i do indicator.set_status(appindicator.STATUS_ATTENTION)
[16:07] <kenvandine> then
[16:07] <kenvandine> indicator.get_icon()
[16:08] <kenvandine> i should get the icon i used in indicator.set_attention_icon ?
[16:08] <tedg> kenvandine: No.  The icons are kept distinct
[16:09] <tedg> kenvandine: The only place it should be different is the panel (not sure if it works or not)
[16:14] <kenvandine> tedg, well it isn't changing the icon in the panel :)
[16:15] <kenvandine> so if i set_status to STATUS_ATTENTION it should change the icon?
[16:15] <tedg> kenvandine: Yes.
[16:15] <kenvandine> ok... not working :)
[16:15] <tedg> kenvandine: :-/
[16:16] <kenvandine> and should set_icon change the icon ?
[16:27] <pitti> dobey: please notice that testing PPAs doesn't count for SRUs; you have to test the packages in -proposed
[16:31] <dobey> pitti: ok, they are the exact same packages... only difference is the ~ppa1~series at the end :)
[16:32] <pitti> right, but they will/might get built in a different environment
[16:32] <pitti> (different toolchain, etc.)
[16:32] <pitti> that's not very important for testing that the bugs are fixed
[16:33] <pitti> but we still need a general test of the -proposed binaries to check for misbuilds
[16:34] <dobey> ok
[16:36] <dobey> well, i guess they need to be uploaded to proposed then. i'm not sure how to do that myself, or if i can
[16:38] <pitti> no, you'll need a sponsor
[16:39] <pitti> dobey: btw, that's the reason why "update to 1.0.1" bugs are rather useless for SRUs
[16:39] <pitti> since they aren't reported by someone who is actually affected by them
[16:39] <pitti> and the SRU policy mandates to use the actual, real bugs instead
[16:40] <dobey> pitti: this is another reason that launchpad needs bug dependencies
[16:40] <pitti> well, they might be useful indeed
[16:40] <pitti> but not really important
[16:40] <pitti> we don't really want to update karmic to 1.0.1
[16:41] <pitti> what we really want is to fix a bug
[16:41] <dobey> well, we want to fix 20 bugs
[16:41] <pitti> and we upload 1.0.1 as a means to that
[16:41] <dobey> but i don't want to do 20 separate updates when they're all fixed already in the code
[16:41] <pitti> no, sure
[16:41] <pitti> I mean conceptually, not technically
[16:42] <pitti> from an user's POV, I filed a bug, and a month later I get a followup "please test karmic-proposed"
[16:43] <dobey> yes, sure. and i don't want users to think their bug is somehow less important than this other one, where we decided to put the SRU request
[16:43] <pitti> right, exactly my point
[16:43] <dobey> and i don't want to go through every bug and duplicate the same SRU request
[16:43] <pitti> a separate "SRU request" bug is useless
[16:44] <pitti> it wouldn't be the same, though
[16:44] <pitti> if you fix 20 bugs, there are 20 different test cases and 20 different solutiosn
[16:44] <pitti> and the changelog needs to mention 20 bugs and descriptions
[16:44] <pitti> etc.
[16:46] <dobey> the changelog does mention them all
[16:47] <dobey> i don't see how the SRU request wouldn't be the same for all the bugs
[16:48] <dobey> but how do i get it into -proposed in the first place?
[16:57] <asac> mdeslaur: i cannot find your mm bug id
[16:57] <asac> is that filed against mm at all
[16:57] <asac> ?
[16:58] <pitti> dobey: normal sponsoring, just like any other package; shall I upload something for you?
[16:58] <pitti> dobey: (sorry, I'm lagged; release meeting going on)
[16:59] <dobey> pitti: well i guess ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client need uploading to -proposed. if i've done something wrong and need to make changes to the packaging, for that to happen, please let me know and i'll fix it asap. thanks :)
[16:59] <pitti> dobey: .dsc url?
[17:00] <pitti> (or PPA, or whereever I can get the source from)
[17:01] <dobey> lp:~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/karmic/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/karmic
[17:01] <dobey> lp:~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/karmic/ubuntuone-client/karmic
[17:01] <dobey> pitti: ^ there :)
[17:01] <dobey> i gotta get lunch now. but i'll be back soon
[17:02] <pitti> dobey: can you please fix s/karmic/karmic-proposed/ in changelog?
[17:02] <pitti> (I can't commit to those branches)
[17:07] <didrocks> pitti: not sure to be able to debug the netbook-launcher thing until the nvidia priopriotary driver working with Xorg 1.7 makes it in lucid (I have another error as 3D acceleration isn't available)
[17:07] <pitti> didrocks: njpatel said he has an idea
[17:08] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you figure it's graphics driver related?
[17:08] <didrocks> pitti: Can't confirm. Only that I have another error not being able to get 3D acceleration
[17:09] <didrocks> if njpatel has an idea, great :)
[17:09] <njpatel> pitti: didrocks: off the cuff it looks like we're not reading something properly and trying to set a NULL pointer to the ClutterText's "text" property. However, I need to make sure
[17:11] <pitti> dobey: u-s-p uploaded with that karmic-proposed change
[17:15] <pitti> dobey: a lot of those changes aren't really SRU matter, btw (like "Fix for running on python < 2.6.3" or "Distinguish auth errors from other errors" or "Create a POT during the build", and the like)
[17:15] <pitti> dobey: next time, please don't add changes which potentially destabilize things and aren't SRU matter
[17:16] <pitti> it's causing you and me extra work, and makes verification much harder
[17:33] <tedg> I can't seem to make this bug public.  I thought since I filled it...  bug 498189
[17:33] <tedg> Can someone check to see if it's just me :)
[17:44] <pitti> tedg: I can see it, and you are subscribed, so you should be able to, too
[17:44] <pitti> if not, that's an LP bug
[17:44] <pitti> tedg: are you logged in?
[17:46] <tedg> pitti: yeah, cause I can see the bug...
[17:47] <pitti> oh, I misread
[17:47] <pitti> I can make it public (just did so)
[17:47] <tedg> Hmm, cool.  Thank pitti!  That's the important thing :)
[17:47] <pitti> tedg: made private again for your testing
[17:47] <pitti> oh
[17:48] <pitti> tedg: do you get an error message?
[17:48] <tedg> Hmm, I just noticed as it loaded the icon came up and disappeared.  I wonder if it's an Epiphany bug.
[17:48] <pitti> anyway, I made it public again
[17:50] <tedg> Ah, it is an Epiphany bug.  I can't make it private again either.
[17:50] <tedg> Thanks for the help pitti
[18:08] <dobey> pitti: the "distinguish auth errors" issue is most certanily an sru issue. and most all the fixes are well tested already, by thousands of users using our beta ppa
[18:15] <asac> dobey: how did you get those stats ;)?
[18:15] <asac> "thousands" ;)
[18:18] <dobey> asac: i think < 10% of ubuntuone users using the beta PPA is a pretty safe estimate
[18:24]  * pitti had rather estimated that < 1% of users even know what a PPA is..
[18:25] <asac> haha
[18:25] <asac> dobey: how so? did you install that somehoe automatically?
[18:26] <dobey> asac: the install instructions on the ubuntu one web site are "click here and this will add the PPA, and then click here, and it will install the software"
[18:27] <dobey> pitti: u1 users, not ubuntu users :)
[18:27] <pitti> right, for ubuntu users in general the percentage is probably more like 0.1% :) (which would be some 10.000)
[18:28] <pitti> but anyway, I uploaded both packages
[18:28] <pitti> I just need you to do the changelog fix in bzr
[18:28] <asac> ah right. you shipped this ugly package installing the ppa etc.
[18:28] <dobey> yeah i will
[18:50] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> have a good weekend
[18:50] <pitti> bye chrisccoulson, have anice weekend!
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - you there? i'm just going through my bug mail and saw you opened a gnome-session bug
[18:53] <didrocks> have a nice weekend pitti :)
[19:08] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: hi.. yup
[19:08] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - you're restoring from a saved session which seems to be broken
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> when did this start happening?
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - WARNING: Could not launch application '108f965d3aada14f25125765658777116800000018040038.desktop': Unable to start application: Failed to execute child process "/usr/bin/compiz.real" (No such file or directory)
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> that's the wrong restart command for compiz ;)
[19:09] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: ever since , I installed Lucid on a separate partition ... I'm using same /home for both lucid and karmic
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - that's why
[19:10] <mac_v> hmm..
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> what has happened is, you've saved a session in karmic (where compiz set the restart command to /usr/bin/compiz.real)
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> and then tried to restore it in lucid, where /usr/bin/compiz.real no longer exists
[19:10] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: ah.. ok , how do i remove it?
[19:11] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - you can just delete ~/.config/gnome-session/saved-session
[19:11]  * mac_v checks
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> i'm just wondering if gnome-session should check the existence of the executable when loading saved session info
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> to handle things like upgrades
[19:13] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: what other session info would be removed? anything else that would be lost?
[19:14] <mac_v> nvm... i'm removing it...
[19:14] <mac_v> brb...
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - did that fix it?
[19:17] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: yay , fixed :)
[19:17] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: awesome , thanks
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - cool. it's still a bug though, as it will break in the same way on upgrade for anybody using session saving
[19:18] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: yeah... so , i'll leave the bug open  , and mention the workaround ?
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - yeah, no problem. you can just copy the IRC log if you like :)
[19:19] <mac_v> nice.. :)
[19:25] <rickspencer3> pitti, kenvandine: http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2009/12/quidgetsprompts-gtkdialogs-now-one.html
[19:35] <tedg> seb128: I can't believe you got mad at me for not using a field that isn't even in the Debian Policy Manual: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
[19:35] <tedg> seb128: :)
[19:36] <seb128> tedg, which one?
[19:36] <tedg> seb128: Breaks
[19:36] <seb128> tedg, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-breaks?
[19:37] <tedg> seb128: Okay, why isn't it a control field?
[19:37] <seb128> it is?
[19:37] <seb128> see 5.6
[19:37] <seb128> 5.6.10
[19:37] <seb128> on the page you pointed before
[19:37] <tedg> seb128: Ah, I see.  Sorry :)
[19:37] <seb128> np ;-)
[19:38] <seb128> and for the record I didn't get mad there ;-)
[19:38]  * mac_v filed a Bug #498195 , regarding the icon not changing :)
[19:40] <mac_v> tedg: why is it only using a 16px icon size :(  . the indicator-message applet uses 22px this uses 16px , its tough to get good icons in 16 px :(
[19:44] <dobey> you're actually suggesting 22px is easier to find icons in?
[19:44] <dobey> :)
[19:47] <tedg> seb128: There, I fixed the vim syntax highlighting macro -- so I'm all good.
[19:47] <mac_v> dobey: hehe , easier to get it done , we can just get more info in.. ;)  I couldnt add an extra "audio wave" for the rhythmbox icon ;)    actually all the humanity panel icons are only 16-17px icons done in 22px ... just missed having an extra pixel i guess ;p
[19:47] <tedg> mac_v: They really should match the text hight, what ever that is.
[19:48] <tedg> mac_v: That's why it's important not to make them a particular size, but a few.
[19:49] <mac_v> tedg: ah...ok , makes sense... what other applets are being done or planned?
[19:49] <dobey> eh
[19:50] <dobey> there's no good way to do icons that match the text height
[19:50] <dobey> but the most fitting icon for that height should be picked
[19:53] <tedg> dobey: the only way would be if we could pass the icon the baseline and the max/average accender and decender.  But yeah. :)
[19:53] <tedg> mac_v: Applets?
[19:54] <mac_v> err...
[19:54] <mac_v> tedg: i meant , menus nm/gpm/volume?
[19:55] <tedg> mac_v: Do you mean these?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
[19:56] <mac_v> oh , boy! thats a huge list...
[19:57] <mac_v> tedg: all those for Lucid? awesome :)
[19:57] <tedg> mac_v: Well, that's the goal -- I can't imagine we'll get through *all* of them.
[19:57] <tedg> mac_v: :)
[19:57] <mac_v> ;)
[19:58] <mac_v> tedg: but some features are being removed because of this migration :( .. like for rhythmbox , it was possible to minimize by just clicking on the icon , but now its not possible :(
[19:59] <tedg> mac_v: Yes.  We need a way to reopen it using the icon as well.
[20:00] <mac_v> tedg: maybe using the right-click instead?  should i file a bug for that ?
[20:01] <tedg> mac_v: We plan on making right click open the menu as well.
[20:01] <mac_v> hmm ...   :(
[20:01] <tedg> mac_v: But we can't in gnome-panel currently.  It's controlled by the panel.
[20:01] <tgpraveen122> mac_v: so right click for open/close left for options. that is just the opposite behaviour of what is right now. will get confusing
[20:02] <tgpraveen122> tedg: right click opens same menu or different menu as left click
[20:02] <mac_v> tgpraveen122: the present behavior uses the left-click for menus and thats is being done to keep it consistent
[20:02] <tedg> tgpraveen122: I think it should open the same.
[20:03] <tgpraveen122> mac_v: umm no. in karmic left click opens/removes from tray for RB
[20:03] <mac_v> tgpraveen122: i'm talking about Lucid... karmic is old stuff ;p
[20:04] <tgpraveen122> :-D
[20:06] <tgpraveen122> one prob with app indicators if i understand right is that it will be better for volume control,NM, etc but will make open/close of rythmbox,banshee type of apps which minimize to tray
[20:07] <tgpraveen122> clicking the indicator and in the menu clicking the open or something increases no. of steps for a commonly used operation
[20:09] <dobey> tedg: you can calculate the height of the text, and make the lookup call check for the best size :)
[20:10] <mac_v> tedg: why open same menu for both right and left clicks , doesnt seem very ideal , when we could just use the right-click for other actions like minimize , or anything else...
[20:11]  * mac_v also tries to remind tedg about a long forgotten app named inkscape :)
[20:11] <tedg> dobey: Yes, but it seems like the idea icon would also be based on the height above baseline, for instance.  You wouldn't want a lot of visual weight where the text doesn't naturally have it.  But, yes, for the simple case that makes sense.
[20:12] <tedg> mac_v: X supports, I think 9 buttons on pointers, perhaps we should put functionality behind all of them?  ;)
[20:13] <tedg> I think right click makes sense on something that is alike a canvas.  But not in a menu bar type structure.
[20:13] <dobey> tedg: most icons aren't small enough to work that way for my text :)
[20:13] <dobey> you can only fit so much detail in 8px
[20:13] <tgpraveen122> mac_v: the prob is that what would right click do with volume control or NM then? application indicator from what i read on their docs seems to aim at consistency above most other things
[20:14] <mac_v> ;p even OSX failed with their one button mouse
[20:14] <tedg> dobey: You just need a higher DPI screen ;)
[20:15] <dobey> tedg: my laptop is 260dpi :)
[20:15] <dobey> but yes, i do need a 1200dpi screen
[20:16] <mac_v> tgpraveen122: consistency doesnt mean you loose functionality that was already present... nm already has a context menu , volume we can find something else ;p
[20:18] <tgpraveen122> i am actually all for having traditional behaviour with app indicators. left click for mini/open and right for the menu on all items
[20:19] <tgpraveen122> and for places where open/min is not applicable like volume control etc only there right and left click should bring up the same menu
[20:19] <dobey> i'm all for just getting rid of app icon thingies
[20:19] <tgpraveen122> it is having some amount of consistency while maintaing traditional behaviour and stilll being sane
[20:19] <tgpraveen122> tedg: whatsay?
[20:20] <dobey> traditional behavior?
[20:20] <tgpraveen122>  left click for mini/open and right for the context menu \
[20:20] <rickspencer3> having a context menu on something that is essentially a menu doesn't really make sense
[20:20] <tgpraveen122> like in karmic for say rhythmbox icon
[20:21] <rickspencer3> I think the new Application Indicator design is much more sane
[20:21] <dobey> rickspencer3: i think it makes sense in some cases, but not the majority
[20:21] <dobey> probably not on indicators at all so much
[20:21] <tgpraveen122> well if it solves the easy open/remove from tray for apps like banshee,RB etc then it would be even great
[20:22] <rickspencer3> what I really want is the easy keyboard access
[20:22] <dobey> banshee/rb shouldn't be sticking crap in the tray :)
[20:22] <rickspencer3> as a netbook user, especially
[20:22] <mac_v> rickspencer3: but what about folks who use the mouse more? ;)
[20:23] <rickspencer3> mac_v, the mouse should work perfectly
[20:23] <rickspencer3> but lots of people *can't* use a mouse for all different reasons
[20:23] <rickspencer3> sometimes it's hardware, but some people have physical limitations that make mousing very onerous
[20:24] <rickspencer3> we should always strive to be inclusive in our design
[20:24] <mac_v> rickspencer3: actually , the new design does make sense , but the only problem is the removal of behavior like the "click-to-minimize" which certain apps have :)
[20:24] <dobey> mac_v: they still have that
[20:24] <rickspencer3> mac_v, well, those functions should become menu items in the menu
[20:24] <dobey> mac_v: there's a button in their title bars that looks like [_] that does exactly that
[20:24] <kenvandine> mac_v, you should be able to close a window and have it really just hide
[20:24] <rickspencer3> dobey, lol
[20:25] <kenvandine> and like in rb, there is a show/hide menu item
[20:25] <rickspencer3> dobey, is right, but mac_v is referring to the windows going away entirely
[20:25] <mac_v> dobey:  actually as kenvandine mentions it mimizes on close ;)
[20:25] <kenvandine> yup :)
[20:25] <rickspencer3> I find those behaviors maddening
[20:25] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i dig it :)
[20:25] <rickspencer3> when I try to click on the indictor and it hides/shows the window
[20:25] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, oh that
[20:25] <rickspencer3> it pisses me off
[20:25] <dobey> mac_v: which is inconsistent with every other app :)
[20:25] <kenvandine> yeah... that is annoying
[20:26] <kenvandine> toggling
[20:26] <mac_v> kenvandine: but we cant restore it :(
[20:26] <tgpraveen122> rickspencer3: yeah this will make it increase one step ie first click on indicator to open menu then click on open action
[20:26] <kenvandine> mac_v, yes you can
[20:26] <rickspencer3> tgpraveen122, right
[20:26] <mac_v> kenvandine: you mean , only from the menu ;)
[20:26] <kenvandine> mac_v, i uploaded a fix for that
[20:26] <kenvandine> well yeah
[20:26] <kenvandine> mac_v, how else?
[20:26] <dobey> rb/banshee should have the stupid tray icon removed, and just fix their UIs. everyone likes the tray icon because it lets them hide the giant ugly UI
[20:27]  * rickspencer3 goes for lunch
[20:27] <dobey> if we had something like the osx dock, they would belong there, but we don't, we have the systray
[20:27] <dobey> so everyone abuses that :)
[20:27] <mac_v> kenvandine: well , no other way now , since the clicks have interchanged... [i was mentioning using right-click , but not all apps have the feature to minimize :/ ]
[20:27] <tgpraveen122> dobey: apps like banshee/rb have tray icon because they are open for long periods of time when one is doing something else so it shouldnt take up space on the task bar (bottom panel) and still be accessible
[20:28] <tgpraveen122> so having a tray icon for them makes sense. how do u suggest they get rid of this functionality
[20:28] <dobey> tgpraveen122: so do you also have a tray icon for firefox?
[20:28] <dobey> firefox stays open far longer than rb for me
[20:29] <tgpraveen122> well if ff is open then i will mostly be using it
[20:29] <dobey> (primarily because rb crashes after pulseaudio leaks a crapload of FDs)
[20:29] <tgpraveen122> but rb i splaying songs in background
[20:29] <dobey> tgpraveen122: i have 6 firefox windows open right this second
[20:29] <tgpraveen122> and only when i want to change songs or something i need it else i want it to be out of my way doing its job
[20:29] <mac_v> dobey: well ff , is open here too , but ff needs to be visible for it to actually be of use ;p ... while rb doesnt ;)
[20:29] <kenvandine> dobey: on that tiny laptop?
[20:29] <tgpraveen122> dobey: umm tabs
[20:30] <dobey> kenvandine: well if i were using my tiny laptop, yes, but no
[20:30] <dobey> kenvandine: i use my desktop pc at home :)
[20:30] <tgpraveen122> should be used
[20:30] <dobey> tgpraveen122: no, they shouldn't :)
[20:30] <dobey> that's one thing i very much hate about chrom(e,ium)
[20:30] <mac_v> yay i found one person who actually doesnt use firefox tabs \o/
[20:31] <dobey> mac_v: i do use tabs
[20:31] <dobey> mac_v: but i also use multiple windows
[20:31] <tgpraveen122> mac_v: many IE users dont use it too
[20:31] <mac_v> tgpraveen122: thats why i mentioned "firefox" ;p
[20:32] <dobey> mac_v: the way chrom{e,ium} works, horribly interrupts my workflow
[20:32] <tgpraveen122> i mean IE users who shift to ff ;p
[20:32] <mac_v> dobey: how so?
[20:32] <dobey> mac_v: well, i also use multiple desktops
[20:32] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, quidgets are looking nice :)
[20:32] <dobey> mac_v: and some windows have different sizes
[20:32] <dyek_> Hi! I saw a lot of annoying gvim error messages below. Is it known what can be the workaround to remove such messages?
[20:32] <dyek_> (gvim:29397): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed
[20:33] <dobey> mac_v: when i click on a link in my e-mail client in another desktop, i expect a new window on that desktop
[20:33] <dobey> mac_v: but no, i have to go find it now
[20:33] <dobey> also, chromium looks nothing like the rest of my gtk+ apps
[20:33] <dobey> which saddens me
[20:33] <mac_v> dobey: ah, ok.. well , i use devilspieand assign ff / chrome one desktop :)  chrome works nice without a top panel ;)
[20:34] <dobey> chrome works nice for google
[20:34] <mac_v> hehe , that too ;)
[20:34] <dobey> it lets them build an OS out of their web empire
[20:34] <dobey> but for people, it's not really all that great
[20:34] <mac_v> "wempire" ;p
[20:35]  * mac_v doesnt really understand all the fuss around chrome OS :)
[20:39]  * tgpraveen122 says mac_v should wait to see chrome os netbook prices
[20:41] <dobey> i don't think the price of chrome os can be expressed in dollars
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> dyek - you need to report a bug at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim/+filebug
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> preferably with a backtrace when you run gvim with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[20:51] <seb128> dobey, the firefox analogie just don't work there
[20:51] <seb128> dobey, you can close firefox and restore the session
[20:51] <seb128> it will not make any difference
[20:51] <seb128> but if you do stop rhythmbox you get nothing playing either
[20:51] <seb128> you do want to service to keep running
[20:52] <seb128> even if you don't want to interact with it
[20:53] <dobey> seb128: rbox isn't a service. it's an application. if you want a service, you're using mpd or slingbox or something already anyway :)
[20:53] <dobey> seb128: the analogy fits, because you can minimize rbox and it will keep playing
[20:53] <seb128> well I want something to play my music which is in the default installation
[20:53] <seb128> it will be noise in your tasklist though
[20:53] <dobey> i can minimize firefox, and google chat or whatever will be still running as well
[20:54] <seb128> well you can close firefox and open it later again
[20:54] <seb128> that avoid noise while you are not using it
[20:54] <seb128> how do I tell rhythmbox to just play and get out of my way?
[20:54] <dobey> seb128: then perhaps the solution is to change our multimedia framework in the default installation
[20:54] <seb128> I don't want to have alt-tab listing it
[20:54] <seb128> or fix rhythmbox
[20:54] <dobey> you push the "play" button on your keyboard, and put it on a different workspace
[20:54] <seb128> what is the fix you suggest?
[20:54] <seb128> that's a workaround
[20:55] <dobey> well, it sounds like what you want is a service, not a file manager. rbox is a fancy file manager.
[20:55] <seb128> what is wrong with having an audio service running and not getting in the way?
[20:55] <dobey> rbox is not a service
[20:55] <mac_v> dobey: you suggest to use a new workspace instead of a tray icon ;)
[20:55] <seb128> why not?
[20:55] <dobey> trying to make it one with a tray icon is just a workaround
[20:55] <seb128> code to play + a gui is a service + a client
[20:56] <dobey> if you want a service, the gui needs to be a client of that service
[20:56] <seb128> what is the difference?
[20:56] <seb128> having no ui on screen is basically the same
[20:56] <dobey> a tray icon isn't no ui on screen
[20:57] <seb128> well you need a way to reopen it
[20:57] <seb128> you could close without a try and tell users to reopen the UI using the menu entryu
[20:57] <seb128> entry
[20:57] <seb128> try -> tray
[20:57] <dobey> yes
[20:57] <dobey> and to do that the gui and the "service" should be separate
[20:57] <seb128> why?
[20:58] <seb128> just comment the current systray show call
[20:58] <seb128> and you get that
[20:58] <dobey> because it's the same as running the skype gui so you can see your skype contacts in pidgin
[20:58] <seb128> what difference does it make to have your interface not displayed or not displayed?
[20:59] <seb128> are you concerned about the ressource use of the ui while it's not on screen there?
[20:59] <dyek> chrisccoulson: Found the bug report already: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/402188
[20:59] <dyek> Thanks!
[21:00] <dobey> seb128: if the ui isn't going to be displayed, why should it be wasting resources
[21:00] <dobey> seb128: it's not my only concern no, but it's a valid one
[21:00] <seb128> you trade a small extra use for less complexity
[21:00] <dobey> seb128: i'm concerned we're creating crappy workarounds for crappy UIs, rather than making good UIs that don't need workarounds
[21:01] <dobey> small extra use?
[21:01] <seb128> the server,client things and the UI things are different topics really
[21:02] <seb128> you could just hide the systray in the current design
[21:02] <seb128> and tell user to run the application again to stop what they are playing
[21:02] <seb128> if your concern is the systray use
[21:02] <mdeslaur> asac: bug #496206
[21:02] <mdeslaur> asac: I assigned it to you
[21:03] <seb128> any it's friday evening, got to go
[21:03] <seb128> see you later
[21:06] <ccheney> boot times are getting impressive :) < 19s now :)
[21:07] <dobey> would help if rbox/pulse would stop leaking file descriptors already :(
[21:08] <seb128> (oh and quick note I'm on holidays starting today until end of the year now)
[21:08] <seb128> bye everybody!
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> lol @ the last comment on bug 3935
[21:25] <mac_v> huh! o.0
[21:42] <mhujairi> anyone there ??