[01:07] <MenZa> nhandler: mm, tasty tasty drama.
[01:08] <nhandler> MenZa: Are you talking about the mailing list thread?
[01:10] <Seeker`> dramatastic
[01:32] <nhandler> I've been refraining from acknowledging most of the comments that were made. I think most people realize that they are inappropriate. Instead, I'm working on cleaning up the IrcCouncil wiki page
[01:33] <Seeker`> I sent my first mail on the subject this evening
[01:33] <Seeker`> about 40 mins ago to be precise
[01:34] <Seeker`> I do wish people would sign emails on the irc list with their irc nickname though
[01:35] <tonyyarusso> Pici: not that paste.ubuntu.com was very useful anyway, considering the lack of line-wrap.
[01:35] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: mine's easy!
[01:36] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: pfft, thats what you think :P
[01:37] <Seeker`> and now comes the interesting wait to see whether my mail gets ignored, or a string of "OMG you''re wrong" posts
[01:41] <wgrant> Note that mailman is currently offline.
[01:43] <Seeker`> oh?
[01:43] <wgrant> Yeah, an hour of maintenance started a few minutes ago.
[01:43] <wgrant> So the discussion has had a little break forced on it :P
[01:43] <tonyyarusso> Blasphemy.  Neither sleet nor snow nor rain nor scheduled maintenance can stop the Mailman.
[01:49] <Seeker`> slow Amaranth is slow
[01:49] <Amaranth> Seeker`: Stopped to write a witty kick message :P
[01:59] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[01:59] <Seeker`> @login
[01:59] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[02:04] <Amaranth> My plan is to ignore the entire thing
[02:04] <Amaranth> Sure, I've read the thread but I don't much care either way
[02:06] <tonyyarusso> I just wrote about the actual nominees and sent it to the CC.  I really don't feel the need to deal with the rest of the nonsense.
[02:10] <Seeker`> as I said, I don't understand how you can nominate people for a role that isn't defined
[02:15] <tsimpson> if there is some sort of fundamental conflict, they can always step down
[02:15] <tsimpson> but I think that's a rather unlikely scenario
[02:15] <tsimpson> we have an outline of what's required
[02:17] <Seeker`> if the definition is close to complete, and there are just minor issues to sort out, why not do that first, so everything is wrapped up neatly for the new council
[02:17] <Seeker`> if the definition isn't close to complete, it needs to be worked out before people are chosen for the position
[02:17] <tsimpson> because we need a council, and then the council as an entity can form the document
[02:18] <tsimpson> no council means no council input on the document
[02:18] <tsimpson> and, frankly, we need a council more than a document describing what it is
[02:18] <Seeker`> but the people considering standing can (and probably should) contribute to any decisions anyway
[02:19] <tsimpson> the community can, but the whole point of the council is to give a unified voice
[02:20] <Seeker`> but it isn't the IRCC that needs to form the document
[02:20] <tsimpson> and to make decisions where there is no obvious choice from the community at large
[02:20] <Seeker`> its the CC, with input from the community
[02:20] <tsimpson> I didn't say the IRCC would form it, I said they should have a voice in it's formation
[02:20] <tsimpson> if they are to be held to it, they should be consulted
[02:21] <Seeker`> if all of the candidates are consulted, or have the option to participate in the dicussion, then they have been consulted
[02:21] <tsimpson> and, honestly, I do not understand all this anger and bitterness that has materialised around this
[02:23] <Seeker`> I think part of it is down to the fact that people have different views of what each persons responsibilties are
[02:23] <Seeker`> which leads to frustration
[02:24] <elky> nhandler, it's probably easier for you to "refrain from acknowledging". it's not your name up there as spoken by someone who had previously been freenode staff and on another council saying what an awful human you are and saying you broke everything.
[02:24] <tsimpson> Seeker`: differing views does not excuse some of the behaviour I've seen on the list
[02:24] <elky> it's taking all my energy right now to not go in to panic mode at the thought of the various trolls pits reading that.
[02:26] <Seeker`> tsimpson: no, it doesn't excuse it. But it may go some way towards explaining what may have triggered the behaviour
[02:26] <elky> Seeker`, it's a long story and this is a logged channel.
[02:28] <elky> I actually have a fair idea of what has happened. It's not something that can be discussed publicly.
[02:28] <tsimpson> right now I feel the IRC community is the laughing stock of the ubuntu community, if any of this was funny
[02:28] <Seeker`> the IRC has been "broken" for well over a year now
[02:28] <Seeker`> *IRC community
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> nah, it's been broken since September 1993 :P
[02:30] <Seeker`> its probably been broken for as long as I have been here. The only difference is, for the first year or so, Seveas was around, and he was able to get away with actually doing something about users and problems
[02:30] <Seeker`> well, longer than a year, can't remember when he went
[02:31] <tonyyarusso> So what we're saying is "dictatorships are efficient"?  True.
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> (I liked Seveas too, but that doesn't make it good logic :P)
[02:32] <Seeker`> I'm saying that the system was probably broken, Seveas was just particularly good at hiding the cracks
[02:32] <elky> the community was much smaller back when it was "just seveas"
[02:35] <Seeker`> running a broken system with well hidden cracks is a bad thing, and just makes the explosion bigger when it occurs; I'm not saying that we should go back to that. But fixing a fundamentally broken system is non-trivial
[02:35] <spyder_> Global Ubuntu meeting?  Spam?
[02:35] <Seeker`> SportChick: how can we help you?
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> huh?
[02:35] <Seeker`> bah, naughty tab complete
[02:36] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: #ubuntu , rejohn
[02:38] <Seeker`> someone may want to talk to him, bit late at night for me getting involved in discussions with users
[02:43] <nhandler> Seeker`: It was already reported to freenode staff by tsimpson
[03:05] <SportChick> Seeker`: huhn?
[03:07] <tonyyarusso> SportChick: bad tab-complete.  Carry on.
[03:21] <nhandler> I would appreciate it if I could get some feedback on the diff I sent to the ubuntu-irc list
[03:50] <elky> nhandler, i thought menza did.
[03:50] <elky> oh, a new one?
[03:50] <nhandler> Yeah, I made a few changes.
[03:59] <nalioth> if rejohn spams again, please feel free to ban him for 24h
[04:25] <nalioth> incoming
[04:27] <bazhang> catsup, Prodego hi how may we help you
[04:27] <Prodego> you can't, just trying to move someone in here
[04:27] <nalioth> bazhang: rejohn has an issue
[04:28] <bazhang> Prodego, thanks, please dont idle unless you have business here
[04:28] <Prodego> bazhang: sure, would 'idle' mean long or short term, I can leave now, or I can wait for him to get in here, whichever is more in line with what you want to do
[04:29] <bazhang> Prodego, we try to keep this channel free (ie sans spectators) to deal with #ubuntu channel issues
[04:29] <catsup> i just wanted to serve as a witness for rejohn
[04:29] <Prodego> sure
[04:29] <nalioth> as did prodego, i'm sure
[04:30] <catsup> wait does that mean i should leave?
[04:30] <bazhang> catsup, unless you have an issue yourself, please.
[04:30] <catsup> k
[04:54] <rejohn> Who is the senior  person for ubuntu irc channel management?
[04:57] <nalioth> rejohn: anyone can help you here
[04:58] <rejohn> Anyone: Who is the senior  person for ubuntu irc channel management?
[04:59] <elky> there is no single one person.
[04:59] <elky> !appeals
[05:02] <Amaranth> rejohn: Is there something we can help you with?
[05:06] <elky> rejohn, we can't help you if you don't talk with us.
[05:10] <bazhang> evildeed seems to be avash, just a fyi
[05:24] <genii> Is there +1-ot ?
[05:25] <bazhang> should just be directed to #ubuntu-offtopic afaik
[05:33] <rejohn> Amaranth: "Is there something we can help you with?"  If you wouldn't mind telling me the answer to this question, that would be great. :)  : "Who is the senior  person here for ubuntu irc channel management?"
[05:33] <bazhang> rejohn, was there something you wished to discuss?
[05:33] <bazhang> rejohn, all of us can help, you need to specify
[05:34] <Amaranth> rejohn: There really isn't a 'senior' person, we can all help
[05:34] <rejohn> bazhang: if I knew of any way I could make that questions any simpler, I would surely try.
[05:35] <bazhang> rejohn, there is no single person as stated above; please clarify your issue that needs resolution
[05:35] <Amaranth> rejohn: What would you talk to such a 'senior' person about?
[05:44] <rejohn> Who is the person here, now, who has the most seniority regarding Ubuntu IRC issues?
[05:44] <bazhang> rejohn, there is no such individual.
[05:45] <Flannel> rejohn: If you can clarify what help you seek, we can help address your issue appropriately.
[05:48] <elky> rejohn, there is no single "senior person". We have a Council and an appeals process. We cannot work with you if you refuse to follow the appeals process. if you're not appealing something and just want to talk to the council, then irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com is how you can contact it.
[05:48] <rejohn> bazhang: is there anyone here with _less_ seniority on Ubuntu IRC issues than some other person?
[05:50] <bazhang> rejohn, not sure what you need as you won't specify; any one in this channel could potentially help were you to do so.
[05:57] <rejohn> bazhang: i don't _need_ anything.  I would, though, like to know if there is anyone here now who fits either of the descriptions I've asked about. :)
[05:57] <elky> rejohn, and we've told you. No.
[05:58] <bazhang> rejohn, then, as was stated above, nope. please don't idle here as per the channel topic if you have no outstanding issues to be resolved, thanks.
[06:05] <rejohn> bazhang: respecting your request to not "idle" here.
[06:15] <genii> I need someone active in #k to keep an eye on crashdata because he's offering dangerous advice, and I currently have to go to sleep or be toast at work tomorrow
[06:17] <genii> eg: "chown /dev/drive user"    "usermod +G cdrom user"    etc etc
[06:37] <genii> Apparently a SLAX user
[06:38] <jussi01> genii: sleep time!
[06:39] <jussi01> genii: also, remember we have:
[06:39] <jussi01> !wfm
[07:05] <dholbach> good morning
[07:05] <Flannel> Howdy dholbach
[07:05] <dholbach> hi Flannel
[08:43] <jussi01> damn repeater bots
[08:43] <Flannel> Erm
[08:43] <ikonia> why was he removed
[08:43] <Flannel> Aha
[08:43] <ikonia> it wasn't a repeater bot
[08:43] <Flannel> Yeah, it was
[08:44] <ikonia> it was asking human questions before ?
[08:44] <ikonia> (just as I joined)
[08:44] <elky> scripts?
[08:44] <ikonia> I only saw it repeat the !ops line from sebsebseb
[08:44] <ikonia> it was asking a question about bluray support in ubuntu
[08:44] <ikonia> and made a sensible comment about not using cd-rw media for livecd's
[08:45] <Flannel> http://privatepaste.com/e29ac5fc6d
[08:45] <Flannel> Oh wait, that... right
[08:45] <Flannel> hold on
[08:45] <jussi01> it definately repeated 2 things
[08:45] <elky> do you have someone on ignore?
[08:46] <Flannel> http://privatepaste.com/2c6a8a98ee
[08:46] <elky> the action was nigtv's etc
[08:46] <Flannel> There, that's what I wanted to paste
[08:46] <ikonia> 08:44 < unic0rn> KB1JWQ: can you handle the above situation (bot Datherine,  repeating stuff all over the place)?
[08:46] <ikonia> from freenode - others are saying the same
[08:46] <ikonia> I just didn't see it as I only just rejoined the channel
[08:46] <Flannel> ikonia: Check that second paste
[08:46] <Flannel> Ah
[08:46] <Flannel> (those pastes only last a day, see BT for permanent one, obviously)
[08:47] <ikonia> that makes more sense
[08:47] <ikonia> I see it now
[08:47] <ikonia> sorry - I only just joined and didn't see
[08:47] <ikonia> can anyone see what time my box died last night (what time my nck quit)
[08:48] <Flannel> 18:57 (It's currently 00:47)
[08:49] <Flannel> So, six hours ago
[08:49] <ikonia> wow, pretty much after I logged off last night, I wonder what happened
[08:49] <ikonia> thanks Flannel
[08:55] <Madpilot> how the heck did the floodbots not trigger on Havily just now  in #u?
[08:55] <ikonia> Madpilot: I'm seeing a bit of lag - maybe they are lagging too
[08:56] <Madpilot> must be it
[08:57] <Madpilot> also, does anyone know what nick the Seveas-worshipping Steve Stalcup uses on IRC?
[08:57] <bazhang> vorian
[08:57] <Madpilot> ah, thnx
[08:58] <Madpilot> must admit to being amused by all the sturm-und-drang on the irc ML recently...
[08:58] <Madpilot> it's IRC, not real life. Lighten up.
[08:58] <ikonia> ?
[08:58] <jussi01> Madpilot: move on ;)
[10:12] <elky> Madpilot, just because you dont take it seriously, does not mean other cannot, or should not.
[10:12] <elky> this is far from a game for *many* people.
[10:17] <Madpilot> elky, the whole thing does need serious discussion. It *doesn't* need mudslinging, bikeshedding or hyperbole, which some of the posts to the ML recent were trending towards IMO.
[10:17] <elky> Madpilot, the situation is more complicated than just mudslinging.
[12:36] <jussi01> !no ninjas is <reply>Help! apachelogger, JontheEchidna, nhandler, Riddell, ScottK, Lex79, Quintasan, neversfelde, maco, rgreening
[12:36] <jussi01> !no ninjas-#kubuntu-devel is <reply>Help! apachelogger, JontheEchidna, nhandler, Riddell, ScottK, Lex79, Quintasan, neversfelde, maco, rgreening
[12:36] <bazhang> hehe
[12:41] <MenZa> nhandler: I'll have a look when I get home in an hour's time
[12:53] <mac_v> hi... are the -desktop and -artwork channel facing downtime?
[12:55] <jussi01> mac_v: come again?'
[12:56] <mac_v> jussi01: i'm not able to connect to #ubuntu-artwork and #ubuntu-desktop
[12:56] <jussi01> mac_v: 1 sec
[12:57] <mac_v> there has been some notices from the freenode staff that they are experiencing denial of service attacks , maybe those are affected
[12:58] <jussi01> mac_v: I can join no problems
[12:58] <jussi01> mac_v: and you dont seem to be banned.
[12:58] <mac_v> hmm , weird ... now i can connect :/
[12:59] <jussi01> mac_v: guess we are all good then?
[12:59] <mac_v> jussi01: yup , thanks :)
[12:59] <mac_v> bye...
[12:59] <jussi01> see ya
[13:21] <Pici> I somewhat regret putting 'ircc' into my hilights
[13:21]  * jussi01 hugs Pici
[14:37] <ikonia> is having a different ops call in #kubuntu-devel wise ? is it not better to have a standard call across all channels ?
[14:43] <jussi01> ikonia: its not an ops call...
[14:49] <BOBBROWN> wtf
[14:49] <BOBBROWN> get lost
[14:49] <bazhang> BOBBROWN, you are forwarded here
[14:49] <BOBBROWN> trying to help some people
[14:49] <BOBBROWN> and I get kicked
[14:50] <BOBBROWN> damn, the ubuntu communitys bad
[14:50] <BOBBROWN> im going to go back to windows!
[14:50] <bazhang> BOBBROWN, install windows problem solved is not helpful
[14:50] <BOBBROWN> hey, it works dude
[14:50] <BOBBROWN> like, ubuntu aint perfect. am I right?
[14:50] <bazhang> wrong channel for it
[14:51] <bazhang> genii, just kicking him will ban
[14:52] <bazhang> whoops my bad
[14:53] <Pici> for gateway users yes.
[14:54] <bazhang> I muted him wishing to PM, he just joined here himself
[14:54] <bazhang> genii, my apologies
[14:55] <genii> Apologies on lag, work. Didn't know gateway users get auto-ban on a kick, good to know
[14:56] <bazhang> he was gone and here before I could PM, sorry all.
[15:07] <ikonia> jussi01: ooh, looked like an ops call, what is it then ?
[15:21] <jussi01> ikonia: its a ninjas calll :P
[15:21] <ikonia> err......ok
[15:21] <jussi01> ikonia: the ninjas are the packagers
[19:54]  * pleia2 hugs Tm_T 
[19:55] <Tm_T> ..does that mean I'm not babbling nonsense afterall? (:)
[19:55]  * Tm_T feels so old
[19:55] <pleia2> oh, I'm just collecting my free hug :)
[19:56] <Tm_T> see, that's the "not babbling nonsense" part (:)
[19:56]  * Tm_T huggles pleia2
[19:56] <pleia2> hehe
[20:04] <Tm_T> now if I manage to get a job so I would have more time in irc...
[20:04]  * MenZa is a BoyCottNovell-certified GNU critic!
[20:06] <Tm_T> is that a good thing?
[20:43] <MenZa> Tm_T: I'm not sure
[22:07] <nhandler> I'm here for my free hug ;)
[22:09]  * jpds hugs nhandler.
[22:10] <nhandler> :)
[22:11] <quok> oh is today free hug day?
[22:15] <nickspoon> Every day is free hug day.
[22:21]  * jussi01 hugs nhandler also. 
[22:22] <nickspoon> Can I have a hug?
[22:22] <Mamarok> hug time? /me wants, too
[22:23]  * nickspoon hugs Mamarok
[22:23]  * Mamarok *hugs* all co-ops and lurkers
[22:23] <Mamarok> co-ops, nice word, that :)
[22:24]  * jussi01 hugs nickspoon
[22:24]  * nickspoon hugs jussi01 
[22:25]  * Mamarok hugs nickspoon in return and hopes for some more hugs
[22:25] <nickspoon> :)
[22:26]  * jussi01 super hugs Mamarok 
[22:26] <jussi01> get well soon!
[22:26] <Mamarok> jussi01: super hugs back :) and thanks
[22:30]  * Tm_T huggles nickspoon 
[22:30]  * nickspoon huggles Tm_T :)
[22:30]  * Tm_T huggles nhandler anf jussi01
[22:31]  * Tm_T hides
[22:44]  * Tm_T is now secured
[23:24] <jussi01> Tm_T: I found Mac OSX disks!
[23:38] <Mamarok> OK, I am off to bed, time flies
[23:38] <nhandler> Night Mamarok
[23:38] <Mamarok> good night everybody :)