[00:01] <Jordan_U> mrand: If there is anything that's still unlear ( or could be more concise ) I don't mind re-explaining in the description
[00:01] <mrand> Sure thing... perhaps with a quick one-liner: "grub-reboot is completely broken in karmic and can cause people to lose access to remote servers.  See more @ http://...."?
[00:01] <awardle> I'm not sure if bug 4498291 is a duplicate of bug 478653. They have similar error messages, however one says ERROR - READY_WITH_NETWORK_WITH_METAQ while the other says ERROR - READY_WITH_NETWORK
[00:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 478653 in ubuntuone-client "BadTransition: SYS_OAUTH_ERROR can't be handled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478653
[00:11] <mrand> awardle: I'm guessing so, but I don't know for sure, so I would probably not mark it as a dup, but perhaps instead put a note in that one that it MAY be a dup of 478653, or else 457147
[00:11] <awardle> ok
[00:18] <Jordan_U> mrand: The new description is definitely a run on sentance, but do you think it's good enough?
[00:41] <mrand> Jordan_U: no problem... as long as it gets the point across clear enough.  Thank you again for the patch!
[00:41] <mrand> bbl
[00:57] <yoasif> heya, can someone please set this bug to triaged? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/498375
[00:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498375 in linux "Resume fails on Acer Aspire 4530 lucid" [Undecided,New]
[02:19] <CarlFK> how do I file a bug against the alt-install?
[02:19] <Pici> The package name is debian-installer iirc
[02:20] <CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug
[02:21] <CarlFK> I thought I would end up at the "ubuntu-bug" thing
[02:31] <seme> hi guys
[03:45] <yoasif> heya
[03:45] <yoasif> anyone around?
[04:22] <nhandler> Need something yoasif ?
[04:22] <yoasif> sure
[04:22] <yoasif> i need something marked as triaged
[04:22] <nhandler> yoasif: What is the bug number?
[04:22] <yoasif> one sec
[04:23] <yoasif> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/498375
[04:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498375 in linux "Resume fails on Acer Aspire 4530 lucid" [Undecided,New]
[04:24] <nhandler> yoasif: I would prefer to at least make sure someone else can confirm it before marking it as triaged
[04:25] <yoasif> heh
[05:19] <mine> `
[05:19] <mine> 3
[07:37] <komputes> For those who are interested in reviewing/confirming important bugs, here are my top bug nominations picks for Lucid
[07:41] <komputes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/komputes/TopBugs
[11:05] <franklin> how to fix load unload question
[11:06] <franklin> my hd drive always runing
[17:00] <jtniehof> Is there any way to enter an upstream bug link when the package doesn't have an upstream project? (I sure can't find it in "project series" either.) LP #221854
[17:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 221854 in hdparm "hdparm Ignores Order of Command-Line Flags." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221854
[17:19] <PrototypeX29A> hi
[17:21] <PrototypeX29A> i had reported a bug in the karmic kernel (496292), now i want to add the information, that the problem still exists with the latest version from git, is there a tag or something for that?
[17:22] <PrototypeX29A> btw. how do i get the status to confirmend?
[17:24] <seme> hi guys
[17:25] <jtniehof> LP #496292
[17:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 496292 in linux "Kerneloops and disconnecting wlan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496292
[17:27] <jtniehof> PrototypeX29A: you can just add a comment saying that it's in the latest from git. If by that you mean the pull from Linus' tree, you can click "Also affects project" to mark it upstream--but you should file an upstream bug first so you can link it
[17:27] <jtniehof> someone other than you will have to set it to Confirmed, it's not confirmed if nobody else can reproduce it
[17:27] <PrototypeX29A> no i mean the ubuntu tree, haven't tried linus' yet
[17:28] <PrototypeX29A> i guess it is hard to reproduce, as it is presumably hardware-specific
[17:28] <jtniehof> yeah, that's always the issue with hardware bugs :/
[17:28] <PrototypeX29A> if it weren't someone else would have noticed
[17:29] <PrototypeX29A> i already found a piece in the kernel code, which i found odd. But this probably is due to my little understanding of kernel hacking
[17:31] <jtniehof> take a look at this Fedora bug, maybe related: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=536713
[17:31] <ubot4> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 536713 in kernel "Oops in ath9k" [Medium,New]
[17:33] <PrototypeX29A> jtniehof: thanks, this really looks familiar
[17:35] <jtniehof> I'll link it in to your report, then
[17:36] <PrototypeX29A> thanks
[17:41] <PrototypeX29A> jtniehof: so what information is needed, to specify the exact "current ubuntu kernel" version. I guess "the latest" is not really clear
[17:43] <jtniehof> uname -a will give you a close start, e.g. OMM 2.6.31-16-generic --so that tells you at least what package you're running
[17:43] <jtniehof> then: aptitude show linux-image-2.6.31-16-generic | grep Version
[17:43] <jtniehof> (so e.g. 2.6.31-16.52 OMM)
[17:43] <jtniehof> there are other ways, but that's my magic incantatoin
[17:44] <PrototypeX29A> 2.6.31.6-zarkov
[17:44] <PrototypeX29A> so .6 means it is a newer version than 2.6.31? and -16.52, in your case, is the version of the ABI?
[17:46] <jtniehof> oops, looks like I'm behind an update...
[17:47] <jtniehof> 2.6.31 is the base kernel version that Ubuntu's kernel team build off; -16.52 is the Ubuntu version number
[17:48] <PrototypeX29A> and why .6 in my case?
[17:48] <jtniehof> don't know exactly how the kernel team does their versioning, but the Ubuntu version likely includes some of the patches from later in the 2.6.31.x series
[17:49] <jtniehof> the "new" kernel development method is to release a 2.6.yy and then iterate through .x for small bugfixes/patches
[17:49] <jtniehof> you're probably running the one you built from source, right?
[17:49] <PrototypeX29A> i c
[17:50] <PrototypeX29A> yes, i do. Using the karmic git-repo
[17:50] <jtniehof> yeah, so that's likely tracking mainline closer
[17:50] <PrototypeX29A> i am going to try the mainline, but i have troubles to configure it correctly
[17:51] <jtniehof> confirming it on the latest version in karmic, and the latest pull from the kernel team's tree, is probably good...although if you can play with the mainline, I suspect they could use more test cases
[17:52] <PrototypeX29A> what do you mean with test cases?
[17:52] <PrototypeX29A> maybe i should look for the bug in the upstream bugtracker
[17:54] <jtniehof> "more test cases": having more people to test the changes in mainline (and in wireless-testing). I linked the mainline bug in your report
[17:55] <jtniehof> looks like they're having quite a time trying to get the things working stably
[17:57] <PrototypeX29A> the fedora-bug hints that there is a fix somewhere
[17:57] <PrototypeX29A> well, i will do some reading. Thanks  for your help so far
[17:59] <jtniehof> you're welcome, and good luck with getting that to work for you
[18:09] <komputes> Any good command-line methods to search for bugs?
[18:10] <PrototypeX29A> "search for bugs" is a little unspecific, i guess
[18:18] <slicer> Hi. If someone files a bug requesting packaging of version X in Karmic, when X is already packaged in Lucid (and is completely incompatible with X-1, which currently is in Karmic), is that a 'Invalid, 'Won't fix' or 'Fix released'?
[19:11] <yofel_> slicer: depends, what bug number?
[21:22] <seme> is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs the only place to search for bugs?
[21:22] <nigel_nb> seme: depends what application has the bug
[21:23] <seme> service
[21:24] <nigel_nb> seme: I didn't get you
[21:24] <seme> upstart
[21:24] <nigel_nb> can you be more clearer?
[21:24] <seme> sorry typing one handed
[21:24] <seme> upstart includes init
[21:25] <seme> ok let me be more clear
[21:25] <seme> service --status-all doesn't output the right status
[21:25] <seme> but initctl list does
[21:25] <seme> the script looks wrong
[21:26] <seme> odd
[21:26] <seme> I thought that /usr/sbin/service was supposed to be a symbolic link to /sbin/init
[21:27] <seme> I mean initctl
[21:28] <joaopinto> seme, service is from the legacy  sysvinit, eventually it was not updated to show upstar job status
[21:31] <seme> I've been going through ubuntu from the bottom up and it is very sloppy with the documentation about how services are managed to the services themselves being very inconsistent... After spending several hours sorting through things I understand now but I can't believe that ubuntu was released like this....
[21:32] <seme> what is the best way to submit this
[21:32] <seme> I can't really find out if there is an existing bug because the bug search interface is very limited
[21:33] <seme> for instance I can't figure out how to query if there is a bug for the service command on 9.10 desktop
[21:34] <seme> perhaps I'm missing something
[21:34] <seme> any help would be greatly appreciated so I can start contributing
[21:43] <yofel> seme: bugs are by default against all versions, you can only search for a specific ubuntu version if there is a bugtask for this version
[21:46] <yofel> seme: if you're looking for bugs against the 'service' command, look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit
[21:47] <yofel> /usr/sbin/service belongs to sysvinit-utils
[21:47] <seme> aah
[21:48] <yofel> seme: found out with 'dpkg -S $(which service)' ;)
[21:48] <seme> yeah I just couldn't figure out how to query for a given distribution or package on launchpad.net I see how to filter by package ...looking at distribution now though
[21:48] <yofel> and then look with 'apt-cache showsrc sysvinit-utils' what the source package is
[21:49] <yofel> after that you know what package to search for at LP
[21:49] <yofel> seme: you mean sort after karmic/lucid/jaunty... ?
[21:49] <yofel> not possible
[21:49] <yofel> well, not as long there is no bug-task for a specific release
[21:50] <yofel> which isn't the case by default
[21:50] <seme> exactly... I mean I personally don't care if it was in a previous release... but it would be nice to be able to filter/search for bugs that apply to a given distribution
[21:50] <seme> that way we can focus on fixing bugs for a given release
[21:50] <yofel> seme: that's only possible if someone  nominated the bug for a release (for SRU)
[21:50] <seme> I see... just don't like it :)
[21:51] <yofel> yeah, but some bugs don't only apply to a specific release
[21:51] <seme> sure so you select multiple ones...
[21:51] <seme> or you make it a "universal" bug
[21:52] <yofel> hm, we had that discussion on a meeting once
[21:54] <joaopinto> seme, universal would mean someone reproduced it on every release
[21:56] <joaopinto> a bug which was only detected/introduced on the current release may not be more important than a bug reported 3 releases ago but which isn't fixed yet :P
[21:58] <seme> well I am probably not going to change the mind of those who contribute more than I do but
[21:58] <seme> I would say that is a perfect case for the bug to be tagged again for the newer release
[21:59] <seme> but I'll try to work within the current method before trying to suggest anything else
[21:59] <seme> :)
[21:59] <seme> just want to contribute and I'm having a hard time
[21:59] <seme> I've gone through several things on the system which I think are crazy
[21:59] <seme> and I think that the whole documentation of the system is a mess but thats just me
[21:59] <seme> I would just rather that ubuntu did less and did it better
[22:00] <seme> it just seems that out of the box ubuntu leaves way to much unclear
[22:08] <joaopinto> seme, we happy to have you aboard to improve the documentation :)
[22:08] <joaopinto> we are
[22:08] <joaopinto> seme, if you are refering to the boot process, ubuntu is doing a long and complex transition with the move to upstart
[22:12] <seme> thanks...
[22:12] <seme> hopefully I can help
[22:13] <seme> I just find it very hard to find things like organized documentation of where ubuntu is going with any given topic
[22:13] <seme> I find it hard to find out what is the "suggested" or "ubuntu" approved method for doing things
[22:13] <seme> it is really frustrating
[22:13] <seme> because for instance I can do a million things to accomplish getting services not to start
[22:13] <seme> but which of them is the right way
[22:14] <seme> the documentation is unclear
[22:14] <seme> and things like service, initctl, bum, and manual methods obviously aren't in sync with each other
[22:14] <joaopinto> seme, like I said, boot is a moving target
[22:15] <seme> he hee it isn't just boot though... for instance lets just take the graphically dependent users
[22:15] <seme> what are the right set of minimum things to install (since they aren't installed by default) for managing my system
[22:15] <seme> I'm not even talking about new programs
[22:16] <seme> services, managing printers, video etc
[22:16] <seme> for instance I bought a HP printer and I had to install a million different things to get it to work
[22:16] <seme> my video card requires completely different "unsupported" tools to manage
[22:17] <seme> and we have things like service tools in the applications menu, system->Preferences and System->Administration
[22:17] <joaopinto> seme, I have an HP printer, I just had to plug it in
[22:17] <seme> thats just crazy for someone who isn't going to spend the time to figure it out
[22:17] <seme> he hee
[22:18] <seme> sorry I'm on a rant here
[22:18] <seme> :)
[22:18] <seme> ok
[22:18] <yofel> hm, hplip-gui would be nice for hp printers
[22:18] <yofel> not enough space on the cd I guess
[22:18] <yofel> not enough space on the cd I guess
[22:18] <seme> thats the thing
[22:18] <nigel_nb> naah, we have some extra space in lucid
[22:18] <nigel_nb> now thta gimp got kicked
[22:19] <seme> I just don't understand it is as if ubuntu is trying so hard to compete with someone/something that they are forgetting to just get the system right and then add applications on top of it
[22:19] <seme> I say just forget about the apps entirely
[22:19] <seme> or switch to a dual cd and dvd image
[22:19] <nigel_nb> seme: the amount of noise in forums and mailing lists on that is kind of deafening
[22:20] <joaopinto> seme, on that I share the same oppinion, I am afraid Ubuntu may be running to fast
[22:20] <seme> every desktop user out there has a dvd player... I get the whole cd thing in the server room but in that case you are almost always going to have an internet connection so you can install things afterward
[22:20] <seme> like I said earlier... "ubuntu" should sit down and just put together good policies around the system and only accept packages that meet those policies
[22:21] <seme> for instance if people want apache to make it in to the distro it has to meet the service standards (like using upstart)
[22:21] <seme> that way if ubuntu focused on making it very clear what the standards are people will make sure to configure their apps to fit
[22:22] <joaopinto> seme, ubuntu has a 6 months release cycle, upstart was a major change, it will take years to get applied on the entire set of packages
[22:22] <seme> joaopinto, I guess... most major systems provide a transitionary process but in that case it should be very clear what the process is and the tools should be built to handle it
[22:22] <joaopinto> seme, what you are suggesting is not tecnhically applicable
[22:22] <seme> right now services are a mess
[22:22] <seme> :)
[22:23] <joaopinto> seme, the transition is clear for those involved on such changes, the ubuntu devs
[22:23] <seme> yeah but they don't really matter
[22:23] <seme> the end users do
[22:23] <seme> people who have to use this stuff
[22:23] <seme> s/have/want/g
[22:24] <seme> but then again they are the ones doing the work
[22:24] <joaopinto> seme, users do not need to know how things work behind the scenes
[22:24] <seme> who am I to say what they should do :)
[22:24] <joaopinto> if they want to, they can read
[22:24] <seme> thats an awful way of looking at it though... what the developers do to the system affects all the end users and I put package maintainers in that list
[22:25] <seme> plus saying that the users can sift through hundreds of crap emails to figure out what ubuntu is doing is crazy
[22:25] <seme> I mean there are many ways to approach this
[22:26] <seme> you can use things like an open version of the java feature process
[22:26] <joaopinto> seme, some of your points are valid, but I didn't saw yet 1 valid solution proposed on your part, just pointing the finger without proposing sensible solutions does not help :)
[22:26] <seme> true true my friend
[22:26] <seme> :)
[22:27] <seme> like I said... who am I to say anything to the venerable folks who are actually contributing
[22:27] <seme> a bit of a rant on my part
[22:27] <seme> any way
[22:27] <seme> I have a few things I've been writing up that I think are issues for an end user
[22:27] <joaopinto> seme, the problem is not "who am I", anyone can crititize and propose suggestions, I am just not sure you are properly informed
[22:28] <seme> the service issue just came up as I was trying to configure something and I started documenting the issues with that as well
[22:28] <seme> joaopinto, I'm sure that I'm not properly informed... I've only started working on this today
[22:29] <seme> thats why I'm writing it up and sifting through all the docs to figure out whats going on
[22:29] <seme> :)
[22:37] <jibel> Hi, could someone at bugcontrol set the status/importance of bug 411073 to triaged/high ?
[22:37] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 411073 in gclcvs "gclcvs segfaults during clc initialization" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411073
[23:52] <micahg> will apport catch a segafult?
[23:54] <BUGabundo> micahg: on devel versions, yes
[23:54] <BUGabundo> or if enabled manually
[23:54] <micahg> ok
[23:54] <yofel> well, if enabled, even on devel versions it's not always enabled
[23:55] <micahg> I just needed to know if it would catch it, thanks BUGabundo
[23:55] <yofel> and it should be disabled for kde apps, drkonqi should handle those
[23:55] <BUGabundo> ohh
[23:55] <yofel> micahg: afaik it will catch it as long there is some segfault message in dmesg
[23:58] <hggdh> it does not catch SIGABRT, but always will trigger or SEGVs