/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/21/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

=== asac_ is now known as asac
cb1147I have installed Ubuntu 9.10 alongside an existing Windows 7 installation, but I chose not to install Ubuntu's boot loader for various reasons.  When I power on my computer, Windows 7 loads, which is how I want it.  I want to boot the Ubuntu system from the installation disc.  Is this possible?  Are there options that I can specify in "Boot Options"?05:37
pittiGood morning07:06
pittirobert_ancell: hey07:06
pittirobert_ancell: simple-scan> awesome!07:06
pittirobert_ancell: do you just want to upload this to universe, so that it's easier to get?07:07
robert_ancellpitti, yeah, I was going to do that for 0.807:08
robert_ancellpitti, was there anything I had to do or can I just push it?07:08
pittirobert_ancell: I didn't really review the source package07:09
pittirobert_ancell: I sent you a list of functionality issues (most of which are hopefully easy to fix)07:09
pittirobert_ancell: just push it, and I'll review it in the NEW queue07:09
robert_ancellpitti, yup, I responded to that07:09
robert_ancellpitti, ok, will do tomorrow07:09
pittiah, didn't read mail yet07:09
pittiwhen it's in universe, it's easier to report bugs :)07:10
robert_ancellpitti, heh :)07:11
robert_ancellgtg, cya tomorrow07:11
geseranyone free to review bug #498817?08:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 498817 in clutter-gtk-0.10 "Merge changes from clutter-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49881708:11
geserlucid has currently clutter-gtk (formerly 0.8, updated by Ubuntu to 0.10.2) and clutter-gtk-0.10 (imported from Debian) both for the upstream version 0.10.2. This debdiff moves our changes from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.10.08:11
geserbut what to do with clutter-gtk after that? it still exists in Debian for version 0.8. should it get removed from lucid as it will be hard to revert it to that version?08:11
didrocksgood morning o/08:20
pittibonjour didrocks08:22
didrockshey pitti, did you have a good week-end?08:22
pittiI did, yes; we baked some cookies again and went to the "Historical Christmas" exhibition08:23
pittiand I did some Apport hacking on Saturday08:23
pittihow was your's?08:23
didrocksfine, went to my parents near Annecy (in Alpes), lot of trains being stucked because of the snow, but the landscape is beautiful :)08:25
didrockshum, beginning to strike to see why ubuntu-netbook isn't the default on live cd :/08:26
didrocksif all is executed in a chroot, normally the postinst of ubuntu-netbook-remix-defaults should set it as a default08:27
pittiah, we have lots of snow here, too; and -13 degrees *shiver*08:27
didrocks-13 ? :)08:27
pittididrocks: you mean default on the UNR image?08:27
didrockspitti: right08:27
didrocksoh, I thing I got it08:27
pittiyeah, yesterday was utterly cold; my nose and beard hair froze after 5 minutes08:28
didrocksI can imagine, don't stay outside :)08:28
didrockspitti: the CD is built in a chroot on a computer, right?08:28
pittiright, on the buildds08:29
didrocksok, so /var/lib/gdm-set-default-session should contact the buildd system dbus and the fallback "change directly the file" isn't called08:29
didrockspitti: is there a way to add an additional command to CD building?08:32
pittithere is a package for it, I try to remember08:33
pittilivecd-rootfs08:34
pittididrocks: ^ you can change things there08:34
didrocksthanks, I'm looking at it08:34
didrocksI guess I have to add an option to gdm-set-default-session to say "don't even try with dbus"08:34
didrocksand call it with that08:35
didrocksstupid gdm not knowning reloading from config file :/08:35
chrisccoulsongood morning didrocks / pitti08:38
pittihey chrisccoulson08:38
didrockshey chrisccoulson08:38
chrisccoulsonhow are you?08:38
didrocksbreaking default session on derivative. Otherwise, good :)08:39
didrocksyou?08:39
chrisccoulsondidrocks - yeah, good thanks. short week at work this week :)08:39
chrisccoulsonthen i can get on with some ubuntu hacking ;)08:39
didrocksyou?:)08:40
didrocksoupss, I meant ':)'08:40
TheMusopitti: Re our discussion at UDS about adding an extra gconf path for gdm to look for settings so studio et al can set theme etc, how easy is this to get done? If its trivial, I'm happy to do it, given a pointer to where to start.08:47
pittiTheMuso: I think didrocks did exactly that for UNE, so can I refer you to him?08:48
pittididrocks: was that only for the session, or also for gdm itself?08:48
didrockspitti: it was only for session, as you select it from gdm08:49
pittioh08:49
pittiTheMuso: look at gdm source, 25_update_gconf_directories.patch08:49
pittiTheMuso: that does exactly that08:49
TheMusopitti: ok great thanks.08:49
pittiseems you just need to append yet another path then08:49
didrocksTheMuso: you can also export for GDM user DEFAULT_PATH and MANDATORY_PATH which is taken into account for gconf automatically (see /etc/gconf/2/path)08:51
and471pitti: I am doing work on bug 194472, I am isolating the changes that need to be in the lucid package for the pwfeedback option to work in sudo (to show asterisks)08:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 194472 in hundredpapercuts "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19447208:54
pittiand471: it's not in an upstream release yet?08:54
TheMusodidrocks: Thanks.08:54
and471pitti, mac_v told me that we were no going to have a new version08:54
pittiand471: why not?08:55
and471pitti, and so that is why I am isolating the changes08:55
pittiI'd rather upgrade to a new upstream release than doing large backports08:55
and471pitti, ask mac_v yourself :-)08:55
and471pitti, yeah me too08:55
and471ah mac_v is away08:55
pittiI was just saying that it's not in our current version08:55
pittiah, Debian already has 1.7.2p108:56
and471pitti: the message he sent t me was AFAIK , and from what pitti mentioned , the sudo package isnt really08:56
and471being updated in full. ie: the cvs version will not be taken as a whole08:56
and471, so if you the patch has to work you also need to mention which of the08:56
and471changes need to be cherry picked for the pwfeedback to work...08:56
chrisccoulsonand471 - with the pwfeedback option working, do the password hints remain in the terminal after authenticating, or does it clear the terminal?08:56
chrisccoulsonif the hints are left in the terminal, then that is just so wrong....08:56
pittiand471: is it in 1.7.2?08:56
pittiand471: if so, that would be easiest; we just need to merge with Debian and enable it then08:57
pittialthough I still think it'd cause much more frustration than necessary08:57
pittisudo and passwd have behaved for this for many decades08:57
pittiand my mom doesn't even need to know that it exists08:57
pitti(which is the main reason why I don't want _my_ footmarks on this change)08:58
and471chrisccoulson, they are not left in the terminal08:58
and471chrisccoulson, it is cleared08:58
chrisccoulsonand471 - well, thats not so bad then08:58
and471pitti, well for those who are worried about this, they can always just remove the 'pwfeedback' option in /etc/sudoers08:59
and471pitti, and I am guessing the people who will not want the option in there will be comfortable editing /etc/sudoers anyway09:00
and471pitti, I shall just check whether it is in the debian version09:00
mac_v pitti: hi... i understood that when you mentioned that the sudo is older in ubuntu and it doesnt have the feature  , i noticed in the changelog that the upstream updates were recently only cherry-picked thats how it was being done...09:04
mac_v*misunderstood*09:04
mac_v :(09:04
mac_vand471: oops ;p09:05
and471mac_v, no problem :-)09:08
mac_vhmm , Lucid doesnt prompt for restart after a kernel update.. but rather if i try to logout , there is a message telling update needs a restart... is this intentional or a bug? [I like it not prompting for a restart  :) ]09:13
pittimac_v: this was intentional09:15
pitti(much nicer IMHO)09:15
mac_vgreat.. yeah , i like it this way too :)09:15
and471pitti: which version do I need to be looking at? the one in sid or squeeze?09:18
pittiand471: they are the same09:18
and471pitti, oh okay09:18
and471pitti, yup those versions are fine, they have the neccessary code09:20
and471pitti, if you could sync the package and include the debdiff attached to bug 194472 when you have time then that bug is fixed09:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 194472 in hundredpapercuts "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19447209:20
mac_vhehe  , now and471's footprints will be on the "fix" and everyone can direct their anger towards and471 ;p09:29
didrockspitti: ahah, I found the guilty about login things09:35
didrockspitti: I have a  default session setted when CD is built, everything's fine09:35
didrockspitti: but then: ./usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin09:35
didrocksit's erasing custom.conf :/09:35
=== mac_v is now known as kvc
=== kvc is now known as vish
chrisccoulsonpitti - would you mind if i worked on a patch to make libnotify cache server capabilities? i think it's been talked about before, but i'm not sure if anyone has done the work yet. g-p-m and g-s-d both query capabilities each time a button is pressed which seems inefficient, and we have a bunch of packages which query capabilities each time before displaying a notification09:52
chrisccoulsoni think i can do it without changing the public API in any way09:52
and471mac_v : yay!09:55
and471vish, ^09:56
vish;)09:56
pittire; ugh, the post office is crazy today10:12
pittiand471: we can't sync sudo, we need to merge10:12
pittididrocks: hah; so you need to fix casper then?10:12
and471pitti, sorry I don't know the exact lingo :-) I just assumed that meant bring over the new package10:13
pittichrisccoulson: sure, why should I mind? :-)10:13
chrisccoulsonpitti - the only reason i asked is because upstream libnotify doesn't seem particularly active ;)10:15
chrisccoulsonso it might end up being a patch that we carry10:15
pittiif it's forwarded upstream, it shouldn't be such a problem10:16
pittiif there are many new upstream releases, they take it hopefully10:16
pittiand if not, it's no burden to merge10:16
didrockspitti: yes, doing it right now (only have my netbook on holidays. Harder and slower for testing :))10:17
awaltonchrisccoulson, what you're looking for is in my github account, along with a number of other patches10:17
chrisccoulsonawalton - thanks, i'll take a look at that then10:17
chrisccoulsoni couldn't remember if it was you who was working on it10:17
chrisccoulsondid you see my message last night?10:18
awaltonyes, but you were gone before I could reply10:18
awaltonchrisccoulson, http://github.com/awalton/libnotify is my tree, it should be pretty close to being ready for a release10:19
chrisccoulsonawalton - thanks, that's great10:19
TeTeTasac: any update on the root certificate for Firefox thingy?11:00
seiflotfykenvandine, there?11:58
pittiseiflotfy: he won't be here today, FYI12:13
chrisccoulsonit's very quiet in here and at work today12:27
chrisccoulsoni should have stayed at home ;)12:27
=== ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje
chrisccoulsondoes anyone here have a keyboard without indicator lights for caps lock etc on it?14:31
pittichrisccoulson: ugh, do those exist?14:46
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, i bought one (without realising)14:46
chrisccoulsonit's really annoying that i currently have no idea whether caps lock is on or not14:46
chrisccoulsoni was wondering if anyone else had a keyboard like that, and how they managed without the indicator lights14:47
didrockspitti: when you have some time, can you please sponsor bug #498971 to make derivatives happy again? :)14:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 498971 in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings "uses desktop session by default on Lucid" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49897114:48
pittididrocks: sure, doing14:50
didrocksthanks ;)14:50
* pitti spots another bug in casper just by accident, and fixes that as well14:50
=== astechgeek is now known as techgeek
chrisccoulsonpitti - would you be happy for me to prepare a SRU for bug 428884? (i haven't written the patch yet, but i was going to fix the functionality by borrowing some code from totem / gnome-session to reset the IDLETIME counter)15:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-command --poke no longer inhibits screensaver" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42888415:10
chrisccoulsonit seems users are getting quite frustrated with this one :-/15:11
pittichrisccoulson: oooh! please15:11
chrisccoulsonpitti - cool, i'll work on that in the next couple of days when i get some spare time :)15:11
* pitti hugs chrisccoulson15:11
* chrisccoulson hugs pitti15:12
didrockspitti: thanks :)15:15
didrocksthe good thing is that I know now that my netbook takes one hour to build the squashfs (yes, strangely, I don't take my whole desktop on holidays ;))15:15
chrisccoulsondidrocks - you're on holiday?15:17
didrockschrisccoulson: right, beginning today until the 7th :)15:17
chrisccoulsondidrocks - that is dedication ;)15:17
didrocksI go back then the 8th to my previous employer for my last day15:18
didrocks:)15:18
didrocksheh15:18
chrisccoulsonyou go back to work for just one day?15:18
chrisccoulsoncould they not give you an extra day vacation ;)15:18
didrocksexactly, it's compulspory the last day for closing every accounts, and so on…15:19
didrockscompulsory*15:19
didrockswell, enjoying the rest of day, see you!15:20
didrocksrest of *the* day15:20
chrisccoulsondidrocks - have a good day :)15:21
pittibye didrocks15:21
didrockschrisccoulson: thanks, you too ;)15:21
didrockspitti: see you15:21
=== vish is now known as mac_v
dobeypitti: hey. might you have any suggestions for how to "triage" blueprints?15:49
pittidobey: how do you mean?15:56
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_
dobeypitti: when some random person files a blueprint against ubuntu for example, how does it get dealt with? (i'm asking you, because i believe you do a lot of approving of blueprints for UDS and such, but if I'm wrong, please point me elsewhere.)15:59
pittidobey: usually it's just ignored16:00
pittithe set all ubuntu blueprints is a huge pile of cruft unfortunately16:00
dobeythat's unfortunate16:01
dobeyyeah, we've been getting some blueprints on the ubuntu one projects, and i was wondering what to do with them, outside of ignoring16:01
pittiwe "triage" them if the creator approaches us on IRC/email16:01
pittior nominates it for a sprint, etc.16:01
dobeysome of them should probably be bugs, etc...16:01
dobeymostly questions in answers even16:01
dobeybut there's no "conver this to blah" button16:01
dobeyi was hoping you guys had some useful way of closing them out16:02
pittiunfortunately not16:02
geseranyone free to review bug #498817?16:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 498817 in clutter-gtk-0.10 "Merge changes from clutter-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49881716:04
geserlucid has currently clutter-gtk (formerly 0.8, updated by Ubuntu to 0.10.2) and clutter-gtk-0.10 (imported from Debian) both for the upstream version 0.10.2. This debdiff moves our changes from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.10.16:04
geserbut what to do with clutter-gtk after that? it still exists in Debian for version 0.8. should it get removed from lucid as it will be hard to revert it to that version?16:04
pittigeser: preferably it should just be removed, yes16:09
pittiunless it takes half of universe with it16:09
pittibut I guess the rdepends need to be fixed either way16:09
gesercurrently both clutter-gtk and clutter-gtk-0.10 build the same packages16:09
geserclutter-gtk is the formerly 0.8 release updated by us to 0.10 and clutter-gtk-0.10 is also 0.10 but imported from Debian16:10
geserso we have two source packages building the same binary packages16:10
pittiah, I see16:11
pitticlutter-gtk builds gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.1016:11
pittiwhich clutter-gtk-0.10 doesn't, though16:11
gesersee the debdiff in that bug16:11
pitti-- lucid/main i386 deps on gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.10:16:11
pittilightsoff16:11
pittiswell-foop16:11
pittigeser: ah, that builds the gir from -0.10? thanks16:12
geserI moved our changes (like building gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.10) from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.1016:12
pittithen we can just remove the old source16:12
pittisince it wouldn't have any binaries published any more16:12
geserthe gir build is our change that needs to be reapplied to -0.1016:12
geserafter that we can remove clutter-gtk16:13
pittidobey: any chance you can make bug 462003 public?16:43
ubottuBug 462003 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/462003 is private16:43
dobeypitti: i'll look at it and see16:47
pittiI accepted the ubuntuone updates and sent out calls for testing to all the other 20ish bugs16:48
pittibut I can't for this one16:48
dobeypitti: i poked the 2 people who uploaded logs, and asked them to verify that there's nothing private, and delete the logs if there is, and make the bug public. thanks :)16:51
pittioh, I see; thanks16:51
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbiew
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_
gkahlais there anything else I need to do to integrate Epiphany and Liferea? Epiphany's RSS Feed extension is installed, liferea-add-feed works from the commandline. . .17:08
dobeypitti: btw, i'm not seeing the ubuntuone updates in karmic-proposed here (us.archive.ubuntu.com)... do you know why?17:23
faganmpt: are we going to get a suggested software section in the software center in lucid ?17:29
mptfagan, probably 4.0 (Lucid+2), unless someone is inspired to contribute it17:31
faganmpt: is that a suggestion :)17:31
mptMore contributions are always welcome. :-)17:31
faganIf you could get me a list id be happy to hard code something17:31
faganmpt: so like what applications would be the most suggested17:32
fagan(gimp, gnome do(maybe)..etc)17:32
faganmpt: So should I ask on planet what applications people would suggest?17:34
faganthats the only place I can think of that I would get a good quick list17:35
mptfagan, that would be a good step -- ideally come up with a list of 50 or so, so you can show ~5 each week and rotate them17:35
faganoh good idea17:35
faganIll go ask and put the list up in the software center's wiki17:36
* fagan makes a quick blog post to ask for help17:36
faganmpt: it wouldnt be hard to make anyway so ill look into it and get back to you17:37
mptgreat17:37
mptMake a subpage for it, not the main spec page please :-)17:37
faganmpt: thats what I meant17:38
fagananyway glad to help17:38
mptfagan, the Ubuntu Forums members might be keen on suggesting applications too17:40
faganill post there too17:40
faganSo ill ask around and see what I can come up with17:40
mac_vmpt: is software center still looking for an icon?17:46
mac_vi notice the 2.x seems to have a spec for a new icon17:46
mptmac_v, yes17:47
mptbut I guess the app icon section on the old wiki page should be updated or removed17:47
mac_vooooooh nice :)17:47
pittidobey: I just accepted it two hours ago, it still needs to build, etc.17:47
mac_vmpt: the last mockup on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/Comments , was from a UI designer or web designer , he was on -artwork wondering why there wasnt any feedback.. shall i direct him to you? [why i asked was since he/she mentioned was a web/UI designer]17:51
mptmac_v, Equiet?17:51
mac_vmpt: yup17:52
mptok, I'll follow up now, thanks17:52
mac_vthanks :)17:52
ccheneywow new mini 10 was announced even earlier than i expected18:26
pittigood night everyone18:38
mptmac_v, done18:40
gkahlahi all19:46
mac_v_dobey: lol..! orkut spam eh ;)19:48
dobeymac_v_: no, somethingsomething.in spam19:48
mac_v_!topic | gkahla19:49
ubottugkahla: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic19:49
=== mac_v_ is now known as mac_v
gkahlavery good, mac_v - have a great day19:50
dobeyhrmm19:53
chrisccoulsonhello robert_ancell22:20
robert_ancellchrisccoulson, hey22:21
chrisccoulsonrobert_ancell - i saw you started to work on sync'ing gnome-session with debian22:22
chrisccoulsoni've not looked at your work yet, but we need to be selective of the changes we sync from debian22:22
chrisccoulsonthey do some weird stuff that we don't want ;)22:22
chrisccoulsonlike removing nautilus from the required_components etc...22:23
robert_ancellchrisccoulson, yeah, if you have the time please finish that one off - I think it's mostly done, just commenting the patches.  It appears they did most of the same changes we'd already done22:23
chrisccoulsonrobert_ancell - cool, i'll take a look at that when i get the chance then22:24
chrisccoulsonyou finish for the festive season soon don't you?22:24
robert_ancellchrisccoulson, cool, I have to try and cram some OEM work in the next two days then off for a few weeks22:24
robert_ancellthurs22:24
chrisccoulsoneveryone will be going on there hols just as i get some free time for ubuntu hacking ;)22:25
robert_ancellchrisccoulson, works for me :)22:25
bryce_indeed22:25
chrisccoulsonhey bryce_22:25
bryce_heya chris22:25
chrisccoulsonhow are you?22:26
bryce_good22:29
* TheMuso is working up to Christmas eve so will be around the next few days.22:29
bryce_got my "bugs from reporters with high karma" report working - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/high-karma-bugs.html22:29
bryce_takes a humongous amount of time to run though since lp doesn't have a way to select bugs where karma > N, so it has to process ALL bugs itself.  bleah22:30
chrisccoulsonbryce_ - what is "high karma"? would my bugs count? ;)22:31
bryce_high == 10,000 currently, but I might nudge that up or down some22:31
chrisccoulson10000 is quite high i think. it took me a lot of effort to get near there before i started as a developer22:32
bryce_heh, that's why it's called "high karma" ;-)22:34
bryce_anyway like I said I'm still tinkering with the numbers22:35
bryce_I tried 2000 and 5000 earlier, but it resulted in just way too many bugs22:35

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