[05:37] <cb1147> I have installed Ubuntu 9.10 alongside an existing Windows 7 installation, but I chose not to install Ubuntu's boot loader for various reasons.  When I power on my computer, Windows 7 loads, which is how I want it.  I want to boot the Ubuntu system from the installation disc.  Is this possible?  Are there options that I can specify in "Boot Options"?
[07:06] <pitti> Good morning
[07:06] <pitti> robert_ancell: hey
[07:06] <pitti> robert_ancell: simple-scan> awesome!
[07:07] <pitti> robert_ancell: do you just want to upload this to universe, so that it's easier to get?
[07:08] <robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, I was going to do that for 0.8
[07:08] <robert_ancell> pitti, was there anything I had to do or can I just push it?
[07:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: I didn't really review the source package
[07:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: I sent you a list of functionality issues (most of which are hopefully easy to fix)
[07:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: just push it, and I'll review it in the NEW queue
[07:09] <robert_ancell> pitti, yup, I responded to that
[07:09] <robert_ancell> pitti, ok, will do tomorrow
[07:09] <pitti> ah, didn't read mail yet
[07:10] <pitti> when it's in universe, it's easier to report bugs :)
[07:11] <robert_ancell> pitti, heh :)
[07:11] <robert_ancell> gtg, cya tomorrow
[08:11] <geser> anyone free to review bug #498817?
[08:11] <geser> lucid has currently clutter-gtk (formerly 0.8, updated by Ubuntu to 0.10.2) and clutter-gtk-0.10 (imported from Debian) both for the upstream version 0.10.2. This debdiff moves our changes from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.10.
[08:11] <geser> but what to do with clutter-gtk after that? it still exists in Debian for version 0.8. should it get removed from lucid as it will be hard to revert it to that version?
[08:20] <didrocks> good morning o/
[08:22] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:22] <didrocks> hey pitti, did you have a good week-end?
[08:23] <pitti> I did, yes; we baked some cookies again and went to the "Historical Christmas" exhibition
[08:23] <pitti> and I did some Apport hacking on Saturday
[08:23] <pitti> how was your's?
[08:25] <didrocks> fine, went to my parents near Annecy (in Alpes), lot of trains being stucked because of the snow, but the landscape is beautiful :)
[08:26] <didrocks> hum, beginning to strike to see why ubuntu-netbook isn't the default on live cd :/
[08:27] <didrocks> if all is executed in a chroot, normally the postinst of ubuntu-netbook-remix-defaults should set it as a default
[08:27] <pitti> ah, we have lots of snow here, too; and -13 degrees *shiver*
[08:27] <didrocks> -13 ? :)
[08:27] <pitti> didrocks: you mean default on the UNR image?
[08:27] <didrocks> pitti: right
[08:27] <didrocks> oh, I thing I got it
[08:28] <pitti> yeah, yesterday was utterly cold; my nose and beard hair froze after 5 minutes
[08:28] <didrocks> I can imagine, don't stay outside :)
[08:28] <didrocks> pitti: the CD is built in a chroot on a computer, right?
[08:29] <pitti> right, on the buildds
[08:29] <didrocks> ok, so /var/lib/gdm-set-default-session should contact the buildd system dbus and the fallback "change directly the file" isn't called
[08:32] <didrocks> pitti: is there a way to add an additional command to CD building?
[08:33] <pitti> there is a package for it, I try to remember
[08:34] <pitti> livecd-rootfs
[08:34] <pitti> didrocks: ^ you can change things there
[08:34] <didrocks> thanks, I'm looking at it
[08:34] <didrocks> I guess I have to add an option to gdm-set-default-session to say "don't even try with dbus"
[08:35] <didrocks> and call it with that
[08:35] <didrocks> stupid gdm not knowning reloading from config file :/
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> good morning didrocks / pitti
[08:38] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:38] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:39] <didrocks> breaking default session on derivative. Otherwise, good :)
[08:39] <didrocks> you?
[08:39] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, good thanks. short week at work this week :)
[08:39] <chrisccoulson> then i can get on with some ubuntu hacking ;)
[08:40] <didrocks> you?:)
[08:40] <didrocks> oupss, I meant ':)'
[08:47] <TheMuso> pitti: Re our discussion at UDS about adding an extra gconf path for gdm to look for settings so studio et al can set theme etc, how easy is this to get done? If its trivial, I'm happy to do it, given a pointer to where to start.
[08:48] <pitti> TheMuso: I think didrocks did exactly that for UNE, so can I refer you to him?
[08:48] <pitti> didrocks: was that only for the session, or also for gdm itself?
[08:49] <didrocks> pitti: it was only for session, as you select it from gdm
[08:49] <pitti> oh
[08:49] <pitti> TheMuso: look at gdm source, 25_update_gconf_directories.patch
[08:49] <pitti> TheMuso: that does exactly that
[08:49] <TheMuso> pitti: ok great thanks.
[08:49] <pitti> seems you just need to append yet another path then
[08:51] <didrocks> TheMuso: you can also export for GDM user DEFAULT_PATH and MANDATORY_PATH which is taken into account for gconf automatically (see /etc/gconf/2/path)
[08:54] <and471> pitti: I am doing work on bug 194472, I am isolating the changes that need to be in the lucid package for the pwfeedback option to work in sudo (to show asterisks)
[08:54] <pitti> and471: it's not in an upstream release yet?
[08:54] <TheMuso> didrocks: Thanks.
[08:54] <and471> pitti, mac_v told me that we were no going to have a new version
[08:55] <pitti> and471: why not?
[08:55] <and471> pitti, and so that is why I am isolating the changes
[08:55] <pitti> I'd rather upgrade to a new upstream release than doing large backports
[08:55] <and471> pitti, ask mac_v yourself :-)
[08:55] <and471> pitti, yeah me too
[08:55] <and471> ah mac_v is away
[08:55] <pitti> I was just saying that it's not in our current version
[08:56] <pitti> ah, Debian already has 1.7.2p1
[08:56] <and471> pitti: the message he sent t me was AFAIK , and from what pitti mentioned , the sudo package isnt really
[08:56] <and471> being updated in full. ie: the cvs version will not be taken as a whole
[08:56] <and471> , so if you the patch has to work you also need to mention which of the
[08:56] <and471> changes need to be cherry picked for the pwfeedback to work...
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> and471 - with the pwfeedback option working, do the password hints remain in the terminal after authenticating, or does it clear the terminal?
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> if the hints are left in the terminal, then that is just so wrong....
[08:56] <pitti> and471: is it in 1.7.2?
[08:57] <pitti> and471: if so, that would be easiest; we just need to merge with Debian and enable it then
[08:57] <pitti> although I still think it'd cause much more frustration than necessary
[08:57] <pitti> sudo and passwd have behaved for this for many decades
[08:57] <pitti> and my mom doesn't even need to know that it exists
[08:58] <pitti> (which is the main reason why I don't want _my_ footmarks on this change)
[08:58] <and471> chrisccoulson, they are not left in the terminal
[08:58] <and471> chrisccoulson, it is cleared
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> and471 - well, thats not so bad then
[08:59] <and471> pitti, well for those who are worried about this, they can always just remove the 'pwfeedback' option in /etc/sudoers
[09:00] <and471> pitti, and I am guessing the people who will not want the option in there will be comfortable editing /etc/sudoers anyway
[09:00] <and471> pitti, I shall just check whether it is in the debian version
[09:04] <mac_v>  pitti: hi... i understood that when you mentioned that the sudo is older in ubuntu and it doesnt have the feature  , i noticed in the changelog that the upstream updates were recently only cherry-picked thats how it was being done...
[09:04] <mac_v> *misunderstood*
[09:04] <mac_v>  :(
[09:05] <mac_v> and471: oops ;p
[09:08] <and471> mac_v, no problem :-)
[09:13] <mac_v> hmm , Lucid doesnt prompt for restart after a kernel update.. but rather if i try to logout , there is a message telling update needs a restart... is this intentional or a bug? [I like it not prompting for a restart  :) ]
[09:15] <pitti> mac_v: this was intentional
[09:15] <pitti> (much nicer IMHO)
[09:15] <mac_v> great.. yeah , i like it this way too :)
[09:18] <and471> pitti: which version do I need to be looking at? the one in sid or squeeze?
[09:18] <pitti> and471: they are the same
[09:18] <and471> pitti, oh okay
[09:20] <and471> pitti, yup those versions are fine, they have the neccessary code
[09:20] <and471> pitti, if you could sync the package and include the debdiff attached to bug 194472 when you have time then that bug is fixed
[09:29] <mac_v> hehe  , now and471's footprints will be on the "fix" and everyone can direct their anger towards and471 ;p
[09:35] <didrocks> pitti: ahah, I found the guilty about login things
[09:35] <didrocks> pitti: I have a  default session setted when CD is built, everything's fine
[09:35] <didrocks> pitti: but then: ./usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin
[09:35] <didrocks> it's erasing custom.conf :/
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind if i worked on a patch to make libnotify cache server capabilities? i think it's been talked about before, but i'm not sure if anyone has done the work yet. g-p-m and g-s-d both query capabilities each time a button is pressed which seems inefficient, and we have a bunch of packages which query capabilities each time before displaying a notification
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> i think i can do it without changing the public API in any way
[09:55] <and471> mac_v : yay!
[09:56] <and471> vish, ^
[09:56] <vish> ;)
[10:12] <pitti> re; ugh, the post office is crazy today
[10:12] <pitti> and471: we can't sync sudo, we need to merge
[10:12] <pitti> didrocks: hah; so you need to fix casper then?
[10:13] <and471> pitti, sorry I don't know the exact lingo :-) I just assumed that meant bring over the new package
[10:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sure, why should I mind? :-)
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the only reason i asked is because upstream libnotify doesn't seem particularly active ;)
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> so it might end up being a patch that we carry
[10:16] <pitti> if it's forwarded upstream, it shouldn't be such a problem
[10:16] <pitti> if there are many new upstream releases, they take it hopefully
[10:16] <pitti> and if not, it's no burden to merge
[10:17] <didrocks> pitti: yes, doing it right now (only have my netbook on holidays. Harder and slower for testing :))
[10:17] <awalton> chrisccoulson, what you're looking for is in my github account, along with a number of other patches
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> awalton - thanks, i'll take a look at that then
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> i couldn't remember if it was you who was working on it
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> did you see my message last night?
[10:18] <awalton> yes, but you were gone before I could reply
[10:19] <awalton> chrisccoulson, http://github.com/awalton/libnotify is my tree, it should be pretty close to being ready for a release
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> awalton - thanks, that's great
[11:00] <TeTeT> asac: any update on the root certificate for Firefox thingy?
[11:58] <seiflotfy> kenvandine, there?
[12:13] <pitti> seiflotfy: he won't be here today, FYI
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> it's very quiet in here and at work today
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> i should have stayed at home ;)
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> does anyone here have a keyboard without indicator lights for caps lock etc on it?
[14:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ugh, do those exist?
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i bought one (without realising)
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> it's really annoying that i currently have no idea whether caps lock is on or not
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> i was wondering if anyone else had a keyboard like that, and how they managed without the indicator lights
[14:48] <didrocks> pitti: when you have some time, can you please sponsor bug #498971 to make derivatives happy again? :)
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: sure, doing
[14:50] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[14:50]  * pitti spots another bug in casper just by accident, and fixes that as well
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you be happy for me to prepare a SRU for bug 428884? (i haven't written the patch yet, but i was going to fix the functionality by borrowing some code from totem / gnome-session to reset the IDLETIME counter)
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> it seems users are getting quite frustrated with this one :-/
[15:11] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oooh! please
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, i'll work on that in the next couple of days when i get some spare time :)
[15:11]  * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
[15:12]  * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
[15:15] <didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
[15:15] <didrocks> the good thing is that I know now that my netbook takes one hour to build the squashfs (yes, strangely, I don't take my whole desktop on holidays ;))
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you're on holiday?
[15:17] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, beginning today until the 7th :)
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - that is dedication ;)
[15:18] <didrocks> I go back then the 8th to my previous employer for my last day
[15:18] <didrocks> :)
[15:18] <didrocks> heh
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> you go back to work for just one day?
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> could they not give you an extra day vacation ;)
[15:19] <didrocks> exactly, it's compulspory the last day for closing every accounts, and so on…
[15:19] <didrocks> compulsory*
[15:20] <didrocks> well, enjoying the rest of day, see you!
[15:20] <didrocks> rest of *the* day
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - have a good day :)
[15:21] <pitti> bye didrocks
[15:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks, you too ;)
[15:21] <didrocks> pitti: see you
[15:49] <dobey> pitti: hey. might you have any suggestions for how to "triage" blueprints?
[15:56] <pitti> dobey: how do you mean?
[15:59] <dobey> pitti: when some random person files a blueprint against ubuntu for example, how does it get dealt with? (i'm asking you, because i believe you do a lot of approving of blueprints for UDS and such, but if I'm wrong, please point me elsewhere.)
[16:00] <pitti> dobey: usually it's just ignored
[16:00] <pitti> the set all ubuntu blueprints is a huge pile of cruft unfortunately
[16:01] <dobey> that's unfortunate
[16:01] <dobey> yeah, we've been getting some blueprints on the ubuntu one projects, and i was wondering what to do with them, outside of ignoring
[16:01] <pitti> we "triage" them if the creator approaches us on IRC/email
[16:01] <pitti> or nominates it for a sprint, etc.
[16:01] <dobey> some of them should probably be bugs, etc...
[16:01] <dobey> mostly questions in answers even
[16:01] <dobey> but there's no "conver this to blah" button
[16:02] <dobey> i was hoping you guys had some useful way of closing them out
[16:02] <pitti> unfortunately not
[16:04] <geser> anyone free to review bug #498817?
[16:04] <geser> lucid has currently clutter-gtk (formerly 0.8, updated by Ubuntu to 0.10.2) and clutter-gtk-0.10 (imported from Debian) both for the upstream version 0.10.2. This debdiff moves our changes from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.10.
[16:04] <geser> but what to do with clutter-gtk after that? it still exists in Debian for version 0.8. should it get removed from lucid as it will be hard to revert it to that version?
[16:09] <pitti> geser: preferably it should just be removed, yes
[16:09] <pitti> unless it takes half of universe with it
[16:09] <pitti> but I guess the rdepends need to be fixed either way
[16:09] <geser> currently both clutter-gtk and clutter-gtk-0.10 build the same packages
[16:10] <geser> clutter-gtk is the formerly 0.8 release updated by us to 0.10 and clutter-gtk-0.10 is also 0.10 but imported from Debian
[16:10] <geser> so we have two source packages building the same binary packages
[16:11] <pitti> ah, I see
[16:11] <pitti> clutter-gtk builds gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.10
[16:11] <pitti> which clutter-gtk-0.10 doesn't, though
[16:11] <geser> see the debdiff in that bug
[16:11] <pitti> -- lucid/main i386 deps on gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.10:
[16:11] <pitti> lightsoff
[16:11] <pitti> swell-foop
[16:12] <pitti> geser: ah, that builds the gir from -0.10? thanks
[16:12] <geser> I moved our changes (like building gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.10) from clutter-gtk to clutter-gtk-0.10
[16:12] <pitti> then we can just remove the old source
[16:12] <pitti> since it wouldn't have any binaries published any more
[16:12] <geser> the gir build is our change that needs to be reapplied to -0.10
[16:13] <geser> after that we can remove clutter-gtk
[16:43] <pitti> dobey: any chance you can make bug 462003 public?
[16:47] <dobey> pitti: i'll look at it and see
[16:48] <pitti> I accepted the ubuntuone updates and sent out calls for testing to all the other 20ish bugs
[16:48] <pitti> but I can't for this one
[16:51] <dobey> pitti: i poked the 2 people who uploaded logs, and asked them to verify that there's nothing private, and delete the logs if there is, and make the bug public. thanks :)
[16:51] <pitti> oh, I see; thanks
[17:08] <gkahla> is there anything else I need to do to integrate Epiphany and Liferea? Epiphany's RSS Feed extension is installed, liferea-add-feed works from the commandline. . .
[17:23] <dobey> pitti: btw, i'm not seeing the ubuntuone updates in karmic-proposed here (us.archive.ubuntu.com)... do you know why?
[17:29] <fagan> mpt: are we going to get a suggested software section in the software center in lucid ?
[17:31] <mpt> fagan, probably 4.0 (Lucid+2), unless someone is inspired to contribute it
[17:31] <fagan> mpt: is that a suggestion :)
[17:31] <mpt> More contributions are always welcome. :-)
[17:31] <fagan> If you could get me a list id be happy to hard code something
[17:32] <fagan> mpt: so like what applications would be the most suggested
[17:32] <fagan> (gimp, gnome do(maybe)..etc)
[17:34] <fagan> mpt: So should I ask on planet what applications people would suggest?
[17:35] <fagan> thats the only place I can think of that I would get a good quick list
[17:35] <mpt> fagan, that would be a good step -- ideally come up with a list of 50 or so, so you can show ~5 each week and rotate them
[17:35] <fagan> oh good idea
[17:36] <fagan> Ill go ask and put the list up in the software center's wiki
[17:36]  * fagan makes a quick blog post to ask for help
[17:37] <fagan> mpt: it wouldnt be hard to make anyway so ill look into it and get back to you
[17:37] <mpt> great
[17:37] <mpt> Make a subpage for it, not the main spec page please :-)
[17:38] <fagan> mpt: thats what I meant
[17:38] <fagan> anyway glad to help
[17:40] <mpt> fagan, the Ubuntu Forums members might be keen on suggesting applications too
[17:40] <fagan> ill post there too
[17:40] <fagan> So ill ask around and see what I can come up with
[17:46] <mac_v> mpt: is software center still looking for an icon?
[17:46] <mac_v> i notice the 2.x seems to have a spec for a new icon
[17:47] <mpt> mac_v, yes
[17:47] <mpt> but I guess the app icon section on the old wiki page should be updated or removed
[17:47] <mac_v> ooooooh nice :)
[17:47] <pitti> dobey: I just accepted it two hours ago, it still needs to build, etc.
[17:51] <mac_v> mpt: the last mockup on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/Comments , was from a UI designer or web designer , he was on -artwork wondering why there wasnt any feedback.. shall i direct him to you? [why i asked was since he/she mentioned was a web/UI designer]
[17:51] <mpt> mac_v, Equiet?
[17:52] <mac_v> mpt: yup
[17:52] <mpt> ok, I'll follow up now, thanks
[17:52] <mac_v> thanks :)
[18:26] <ccheney> wow new mini 10 was announced even earlier than i expected
[18:38] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:40] <mpt> mac_v, done
[19:46] <gkahla> hi all
[19:48] <mac_v_> dobey: lol..! orkut spam eh ;)
[19:48] <dobey> mac_v_: no, somethingsomething.in spam
[19:49] <mac_v_> !topic | gkahla
[19:50] <gkahla> very good, mac_v - have a great day
[19:53] <dobey> hrmm
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> hello robert_ancell
[22:21] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, hey
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i saw you started to work on sync'ing gnome-session with debian
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> i've not looked at your work yet, but we need to be selective of the changes we sync from debian
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> they do some weird stuff that we don't want ;)
[22:23] <chrisccoulson> like removing nautilus from the required_components etc...
[22:23] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yeah, if you have the time please finish that one off - I think it's mostly done, just commenting the patches.  It appears they did most of the same changes we'd already done
[22:24] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - cool, i'll take a look at that when i get the chance then
[22:24] <chrisccoulson> you finish for the festive season soon don't you?
[22:24] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, cool, I have to try and cram some OEM work in the next two days then off for a few weeks
[22:24] <robert_ancell> thurs
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> everyone will be going on there hols just as i get some free time for ubuntu hacking ;)
[22:25] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, works for me :)
[22:25] <bryce_> indeed
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> hey bryce_
[22:25] <bryce_> heya chris
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[22:29] <bryce_> good
[22:29]  * TheMuso is working up to Christmas eve so will be around the next few days.
[22:29] <bryce_> got my "bugs from reporters with high karma" report working - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/high-karma-bugs.html
[22:30] <bryce_> takes a humongous amount of time to run though since lp doesn't have a way to select bugs where karma > N, so it has to process ALL bugs itself.  bleah
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> bryce_ - what is "high karma"? would my bugs count? ;)
[22:31] <bryce_> high == 10,000 currently, but I might nudge that up or down some
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> 10000 is quite high i think. it took me a lot of effort to get near there before i started as a developer
[22:34] <bryce_> heh, that's why it's called "high karma" ;-)
[22:35] <bryce_> anyway like I said I'm still tinkering with the numbers
[22:35] <bryce_> I tried 2000 and 5000 earlier, but it resulted in just way too many bugs