[01:09] mdeslaur - we maintain the gnome-screensaver packaging in bzr btw (just for future reference) [01:09] i was just about to upload a new version and noticed the bzr branch was out of date ;) === asac_ is now known as asac [07:49] mvo:hi [07:49] hey and471! [07:50] and471: I merged a history file writing into apt - I'm sure you will like that :) [07:50] mvo: yay! [07:50] and471: I will upload it today (doing some final tests, but should be fine) [07:51] mvo: what is the basic format of the history? [07:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/LucidSoftwareCenterHistory [07:52] and471: a simple rfc822 format, the python-debian package with the debian_bundle.deb822 parser should cope with it just fine [07:53] the only complication is that it will do log rotation and keep .gz copies of the chnages [07:53] and471: it would be cool to code the log viewer in a way that it could be used standalone as well (if that is possible with not too much effort) [07:54] mvo: hmm interesting... :-) [07:54] :) [07:54] * mvo is pretty excited about the feature [07:56] mvo: once it is uploaded tell me and I shall begin hacking :-) though I may need a demo of how the parsing with debian_bundle.deb822 works [08:03] mvo: can I ask you a question? [08:03] sure [08:04] mvo: I have a goocanvas.Canvas and some items on that canvas, how would I set up dragging and dropping of those items? [08:04] mvo, (within the canvas) so not gtk. drag and drop stuff, but button release events etc. [08:06] and471: I have no experience with that, but I'm happy to have a look (it sounds fun!) - is the code in a branch somewhere? [08:06] mvo: sure I shall just push it [08:06] and471: it means you have to implement d-n-d "by-hand" because its not there is GooCanvas yet? [08:07] mvo: no I am trying to drag and drop items within goocanvas (ie. not drag them to another widget) [08:08] mvo, it is for a flowchart creator I have starting creating :-) https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/shauri/trunk [08:08] oh, that sounds like you want to draw it every time on mousemove [08:08] mvo: the canvas stuff is in shauri/view/canvas.py (you will notice the structure of the project looks similiar :-] ) [08:08] and delete (and restore the bg) of the previous position [08:08] mvo, yup [08:08] heh :) [08:08] nice [08:10] I guess its "just" that, keeping track on on-mouse, the old cursor position, the new and lots of drawing (and deleting). [08:10] I'm sure there are nasty corner cases and such too :) [08:11] mvo: what is the gobject signal(s) I need to track? [08:11] is > are [08:13] and471: I think you need motion-notify-event on the canvas itself. if there is a mouse-click on a item, go into drag-state, if the mouse is moved (motifion-notify-event) in that state, do the drawing magic. when the mouse is released, end that state [08:14] you should get a event that gives you "event.x", "event.y" [08:14] mvo: ok cool thanks :-) [08:14] (GdkEventMotion) [08:14] good luck! and let me know how that goes [08:15] mvo: thanks I shall :-) I was trying to make a flowchart the other day, I installed and opened up dia and thought "this is too hard" ;) [08:15] mvo, this is going to be a really simple and easy-to-use program :-) [08:16] Good morning [08:16] and471: cool! [08:16] hey pitti [08:16] pitti, hello [08:31] good morning everyone [08:32] hey chrisccoulson [08:33] hey pitti, how are you today? [08:33] are you winding down for the festive break yet? ;) [08:34] I'm great, how are you? [08:34] I'm still at work until tomorrow [08:35] mvo: okay I have got it working however I have one problem, the gd.Event gives me the x and y coordinates of the window not the widget, is there anyway to convert these? [08:35] *gkd.Event [08:35] yeah, i'm ok too. i got most of my christmas grocery shopping done last night, which was not fun, but i'm glad it's out of the way now :) [08:36] *gdk.Event [08:39] mvo, don't worry I ahve go it working, the gdk.Event does give me the correct coordinates [08:43] and471: aha, cool [08:45] mvo: yay it is working :-) [08:45] sweet! [09:00] pitti - do you just want me to just upload the fix for bug 428884 to karmic-proposed, or do you want to have a quick look at the fix beforehand? FYI, the patch i uploaded to lucid last night is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-screensaver/ubuntu/revision/48#debian/patches/10_legacy_scrsvr_inhibit.patch [09:00] Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-command --poke no longer inhibits screensaver" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884 [09:00] unfortunately, it requires an extra build-depend on libxtst-dev to work, but that's already required by other desktop components anyway [09:02] chrisccoulson: new b-dep in main doesn't sound like a problem [09:02] pitti - thanks [09:02] chrisccoulson: would there be a way to avoid patching autoconf stuff for the SRU? [09:02] and just assume that we have it? [09:03] the Makefile.am change can probably be represented as a single-line diff in Makefile.in [09:03] I don't insist on it, but it might make the change much smaller and less error prone [09:04] pitti - yeah, i can probably do that. we'd still need to keep the Makefile change to correctly link against libxtst though, but i can remove the configure check for the SRU. i only added that to make it more acceptable for upstream [10:04] vuntz - we had a user report a gnome-session bug because they tried to get nautilus to open a window on login, by adding a nautilus autostart file in gnome-session-properties, but it didn't work because they ended up with 2 applications with the same app_id (and only one of them is started). would you consider that to be a bug, or something which is unlikely to change? (i'm wondering whether to close the launchpad bug or not) === onestone___ is now known as onestone [13:06] hello everyone ! [13:08] mvo, hi, I thought you were supposed to be on holiday ;-) [13:10] mpt: yesterday, today and tomorrow I'm at work :) [13:10] mvo, ah, I didn't call you yesterday because I didn't see you online anywhere [13:13] mpt: right, I was on vac yesterday [13:14] but not today and tomorrow [13:16] mvo, I just updated trunk, and it's in an interesting state -- all the application names and icons are gone [13:19] mpt: oh? does "rm data/xapian/*" help? [13:20] oh, I wasn't paying attention to what was happening in the terminal [13:21] it was full of raise IndexError("No app '%s' for '%s' in database" % (appname,pkgname)) etc [13:21] yes, all fixed now [13:22] cool, thanks [13:28] good afternoon everyone [13:37] mvo, I'm thinking about how to show non-application packages in search results [13:37] mvo, and one example I'm using is "the" (The Hessling Editor) [13:39] mpt: we can/could force exact package name searches as part of the query [13:39] that would match "the" [13:39] yes [13:40] So, something like: If there's a package that exactly matches, show that first, then show all application matches alphabetically, and hide non-application matches behind a toggle of some sort [13:40] (other non-application matches, I mean) [13:41] ... except in "Tech Stuff", where non-application matches should be shown by default [13:42] Currently searching in USC for "hessling" returns the, but searching for "the" does not [13:42] mpt: I'm not sure about the alphabetic, I send you a environment that you can use to modify the behavior a while ago [13:43] mpt: and alphabetic is confusing if you search for something with "z" in it IMO [13:43] maybe [13:43] mpt: I thnk I send it to you by mail, just play with it to get a feeling for the sorting [13:43] Another problem with alphabetic is where we get wildly popular and ISVs start gaming it by starting their application names with underscores or "AAA" [13:44] (that happened with Apple's store) [13:45] oh, so that is the way the apple store is doing it by default? interessting [13:45] I think they stopped, I'm not sure [13:45] haven't used it myself :-) [13:45] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/07/app-store-alphabetical-listings-quietly-fixed.ars [13:46] * mvo nods [13:47] mpt: we currently implement three different sortings, if you can't find the environemnt vars I can look them up for you again (sorry, I don't have it right now) [13:55] mvo, sorry, I haven't found that message (I went through all messages where you mentioned "sort") [13:57] mpt: try "PYTHONPATH=. SOFTWARE_CENTER_SEARCHES_SORT_MODE=popcon ./software-center" [13:57] mpt: it supports "xapian" [13:57] mpt: alphabetic [13:57] and popcon [13:58] hm, searching is hard [14:00] None of those options, when I search for "python", return any version of the Python interpreter as #1 or #2 [14:00] I guess we can get around that partly with exact matches [14:01] but that might not help with searches like "openoffice" [14:05] yeah, search is hard, espcially when it neeeds be fast and exact. give me a minute to look if I can get the package name matches mixed into the search [14:40] mpt: please update and check how well the xapian mode now works. I added scaling for pkgname and a strong favor towards applications [14:41] r477 [14:43] hm, any gnome committer here who could apply an approved patch for me? [14:43] but popcon (by its nature) gives us very good results for common searches [14:43] mpt: its hard to get the exact behavior you want, there is no simple "do-that search first and append the other results later" [14:44] mclasen: thanks for the glib assert patch review; I can't commit myself, but I'll find someone [14:44] pitti: we'll get it in, no worries [14:44] mvo, one lookup and one search, splice the results together? :-) [14:45] pitti: now I need to go and find some abrt hacker; I think they're all off for xmas already... [14:45] mclasen: that problem sounds familiar :) [14:46] OTOH these three days are great for getting stuff done and reduce the backlog [14:46] * pitti has $work inbox down to three [14:47] mpt: right, thats like saying "just return the right results" [14:47] mvo, why is that? Is it because it would take twice as long as doing just one search? [14:51] mpt: its because the bit that displays the application gets a query as input. it does not care much if its in search, display (sub)category or search-in-category(or sub-category) mode. its a nice abstraction. that bits needs to be redone to take multiple queries and stitch them together. maybe hard is the wrong word, but it does not map very well currently [14:52] mvo, is that something you'd need to rewrite anyway to hide non-application packages from most search results by default? [14:52] mpt: no, that is relatively easy to do by adding a "AND" or "AND_NOT" applications [14:52] ok [14:55] hm, something must be broken [14:55] mpt: with the recent commit? [14:57] mvo, in r477 I search for "thunderbird" and I get 200 results: Mozilla Thunderbird is #56, and most of the others don't mention "thunderbird" at all [14:59] mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/344756/ [15:00] mpt: with SEACHES_SORT_MODE=xapian ? or with the default mode? [15:01] mvo, default mode [15:01] SOFTWARE_CENTER_ ... =xapian [15:01] Was that change you made just to the xapian mode? [15:01] mpt: that may well be broken now :/ please check the xapian one [15:01] ok [15:05] mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/344759/ [15:05] It's improved on non-application packages, worsened on applications [15:08] It's also consistently returning ~200 results where most of them don't mention the search string at all [15:10] hm, hm, so a different approach is needed [15:11] actually, I need to increase the sample [15:11] it's doing fairly well on other things I'm trying [15:11] but getting rid of those completely irrelevant results would be nice anyway :-) [15:15] * mvo nods [15:19] mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/344765/ [15:22] Emilia Pinball seems to come up in the top 20 for just about every search I do :-) [15:22] e.g. it's the #12 result for "spreadsheet" [15:28] mvo, so on balance, from that sample I think r477-xapian is a bit worse than r476 [15:46] kenvandine, hey! Any chance to see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/494591 fixed in Karmic? [15:46] Ubuntu bug 494591 in telepathy-gabble "Ship 0.8.9" [Undecided,New] [15:46] mpt: hm, I just looked into a custom weight implementation to do custom relevance raking with xapian, but that seems to be not possible with the python bindings. I think it would solve the problem neatly. oh well [15:46] s/would/would have/ === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew [16:18] mpt: please try r478, still not perfect, but I think better [16:34] mvo, with explicit xapian mode, or default mode? [16:36] mpt: default, sorry for not mentioning that [16:42] mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/344818/ [16:42] r479 does a bit better than r476 [16:43] r479 in xapian mode does better still. [16:43] mpt: that is interessting, dive into python is a problem to become #1 because python is also a package name and huge popularity [16:45] And in both default and xapian mode, I don't see any completely irrelevant results, nice work [16:45] thanks [16:46] mvo, shouldn't it matter that the python package doesn't mention "dive" at all? :-) [16:49] mpt: the package names are currently a OR search, I can make that a AND, but that will be on the expenses of other queries. but if you prefer that that is fine with me (OTOH there is no dive AND in AND python package) [16:50] mvo, sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "there is no dive AND in AND python package" [16:51] mpt: I mean, for the package name query, there is no exact match there. but yeah, for the other one I need to check what is going on, but xapian is sometimes still magic [16:52] mvo, do you mean that with an AND search, "dive into python" would return no results? [16:52] mpt: for a AND package name search yes, it would be a "dive AND into AND python" on the pkgname [16:53] Well, the package name isn't "dive" or "into" or "python" anyway [16:53] So in both cases it's looking at the description instead, right? [16:54] yes [16:54] hm, but its a good question why its not doing a AND there [16:54] We're hampered here by the synopsis being "free Python book for experienced programmers", rather than "Dive Into Python, a reference for experienced programmers" or something like that [16:55] * mvo nods [16:55] Unlike Google and Bing developers, we have the advantage of being able to improve our dataset :-) [16:55] indeed [16:56] user-contributed-metadata ftw [16:56] exactly [16:56] In the meantime, the latest xapian mode looks like a good default to be going on with [16:56] ok, cool [16:57] though I'm happy to test something where the package search is ANDed [16:57] package name search, I mean [16:59] mpt: ok, cool. I need to leave now (appointment this evening) - but I can commit a patch for this tomorrow morning - just ping me when you are online and I'm happy to do that [16:59] mvo, ok, or put it in a branch and mail me, whichever suits you [16:59] thank you for your attention to detail [17:00] * mpt wonders what package should come up #1 in a search for "realtime kernel" [17:00] linux-image-rt, I guess [17:01] * mvo waves [17:01] tchau [17:02] But there we have crap data because the package info doesn't mention "realtime" at all [17:02] "This package will always depend on the latest rt kernel image available." [17:13] mpt: I'll patch that, thanks [17:14] crimsun, I'm part-way through writing it up, would you like me to hit the "Submit Bug Report" button, or would that be more bothersome than useful? [17:14] submit, and please let me know the bug report # [17:15] thanks [17:17] crimsun, reported bug 499524, thank you kindly [17:17] Launchpad bug 499524 in linux-meta "Package description doesn't mention "real-time"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499524 [17:18] crimsun, btw, do you know why shows the linux-image-rt binary package coming from two different source packages for the same series? Are they for different architectures, or what? [17:23] mpt: originally targeted to two different base kernels [17:23] 2.6.31 and 2.6.32 bases [17:25] hm [17:25] When I search Synaptic for "linux-image-rt" I get one result, but when I search Ubuntu Software Center I get two identical results [17:45] mpt: would it be acceptable to use "Realtime" instead of "real-time"? [17:45] mpt: upstream uses the former [17:46] crimsun, heh, I was just wondering how to finagle the description so that it would contain both :-) [17:46] so that a search for either would return it [17:47] well, technically it's "Realtime Linux" and "RT" both, but I agree that we need to avoid confusing users with other "rt"-like packages [17:48] is it acceptable for a package to wipe out a userland config file as part of an update, or is it considered to be destruction of data? [17:48] i.e., we don't want people to mistakenly think they're getting "Real Time Linux" (i.e., RTAI) [17:49] crimsun, so are some/most of the mentions of "real-time kernel" on the Web people referring to RTAI? [17:49] I'll just make this clearer in the longer description [17:49] http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1="real-time+kernel"&word2="realtime+kernel" [17:49] ok [17:51] "real-time kernel" returns mostly "Realtime Linux" (i.e., Ubuntu's linux-meta-rt-related) results [17:51] bjsnider: note the distinction between conffile and configuration file [18:00] crimsun, let me be specific. ~/.gnome2/backgrounds.xml [18:01] that file is created if the user ever changes anything about the default backgrounds such as their colour [18:01] it overrides the xml files in /usr/share/backgrounds === robbiew is now known as robbiew_ === mac_v is now known as vish === vish is now known as mac_v [20:37] what's the installer project name? ubiquity? [20:37] the Live installer, yus [20:39] cool, thanks [22:06] pitti - i've uploaded the gnome-screensaver SRU now