/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/23/#kubuntu-devel.txt

QuintasanRiddell or ScottK: mind reviewing if you have a second? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/69524/q4wine_0.114-r1-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz00:03
ScottKQuintasan: What is that?00:05
QuintasanScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/36094200:06
ubottuUbuntu bug 360942 in ubuntu "[needs packaging] Q4wine - binary" [Wishlist,New]00:06
Quintasanoh great, I'm missing description00:07
ScottKQuintasan: Since it's for wine, please ask Yokozar to look at it.00:07
QuintasanScottK: okay00:08
Riddellooh, it's Quintasan http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/195800:15
QuintasanRiddell: :D00:16
QuintasanWell, I'm going to bed. Good Night00:20
Mamaroknini Quintasan :)00:21
* Mamarok should do that, too00:21
ScottKRiddell: live CD build worked on i386, so I think we're actually in good shape.00:38
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
ScottKThere is good news and there is bad news:03:36
ScottK1.  Good news: Software installation is easy enough that my totally non-technical step daughter got Skype installed with no help.03:37
ScottK2.  Bad news: I know because her mike didn't work out of the box and I had to show her about kmix and mixer settings to get it working.03:37
crimsunthat *could* be a bug (WRT #2)04:03
crimsunOTOH, we've fixed a crackton of those sorts in current ALSA04:03
crimsunmeaning, we now autoselect the appropriate mic based on jack presence, so if you have an external mic plugged in, the internal mic is muted04:04
ScottKIIRC I had to tell it to use analog input instead of digital.04:04
crimsunon karmic, that would be apt-get install linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic (and a reboot)04:04
ScottKI'm actually thinking I need to take a break from Ubuntu.04:09
crimsunit's healthy04:09
crimsunI'm looking forward to the day when I can actually use it without having to drag myself away from fixing stuff04:10
ScottKI'm disproportionately upset about the whole MoM discussion.04:10
crimsunyeah, that was a bit nasty04:10
ScottKIt really brings into question Canonical's reliabilty as a partner to the community IMO.04:11
ScottK"Sorry, it's broken, but we've pitched it over the fence to fix.  Good luck."04:11
crimsunwell, there certainly are commercial forces driving the company's motives04:11
ScottKCertainly.04:11
ScottKI can understand that.04:11
ScottKBut ditching standard tools the people have used for years because one person is too busy and recommending unreliable, incomplete replacements is not a confidence builder.04:12
crimsunI've largely avoided this particular tidbit by having merged manually from the onset, but I understand how, if led to rely on its continued presence, its recent downtime would be annoying.04:12
crimsununfortunately, I believe the core plumbers are utterly overworked04:13
ScottKI understand the downtime (even if I'm not happy about it).  It's the "and we're not going to fix it, but we didn't tell anyone" part I dislike04:13
ScottKNo doubt, but MoM doesn't take a core plumber.04:13
ScottKSo the fact that it was the sole responsibility of such a person is a management failure.04:14
crimsunI don't even profess to understand how it was developed; my inclination is that Scott hacked away in a cave and emerged "victorious" after a while04:15
ScottKI took a brief look at the code and it's not that horrible.04:15
macoScottK: didnt other-scott say he's been trying to find someone to take it over for years?04:16
ScottKmaco: Certainly.  That's why it's a management failure at Canonical.04:16
crimsunWhile I don't doubt there's a bit of ego involved all around, I agree that it could have been announced more widely.04:17
crimsun(Then again, all around we seem to have this announce problem. None of us is immune.)04:18
seelewhat is MoM an acronym for?04:25
crimsunmerge-o-matic04:25
seeleaah, sounds technical04:25
ScottKIt was.04:25
macohi seele04:27
seelemaco: yo04:27
shtylmanso whats the whole MoM battle?04:58
shtylmanI only really get a gist of it from the mailing lists04:58
shtylmanbut don't know the backstory04:58
ScottKIntially it was a closed source tool provided by Canonical.05:00
ScottKProbably written by Keybuk in his spare time.05:00
ScottKThen it stopped getting updated during one release cycle, a few people in the community got fed up and made DaD.05:01
ScottKDaD was a FOSS version of MoM.05:01
ScottKIt's merging algorithm was never quite as good, but it had comments and was updated more frequently.05:01
ScottKSo for a while, MOTU used DaD and Canonical people used MoM.05:02
ScottK(non-Canonical core-dev were rather less common then)05:02
ScottKThen two years ago, Canonical agreed to open source MoM and the DaD devs agreed to merge their improvements.05:02
ScottKIt took some time, but it finally got done.05:03
ScottKSo DaD went away.05:03
ScottKAll is ~ well for a while.05:03
shtylmank05:03
ScottKThere are a few community contributions, but it's not a lot of work for Keybuk to keep up.05:03
ScottKWhich is good, since he has no time.05:03
ScottKThen Debian package source format V3 shows up and everytime MoM hits one, it falls over dead.05:04
ScottKToday, Keybuk got pressed to fix it and washed his hands of it.05:05
macoi thoguht he'd been blacklisting problematic packages for a months...longer than v3's been around05:05
ScottKmaco: That was in the archive.05:05
ScottKAs long as that was done it hit MoM irregularly.05:05
ScottKNow that v3 can go in the archive, it hits every run.05:05
ScottKThe consensus from the Canonical people in the conversation was that it was unreasonable for the community to expect Canonical to continue to provide this service and we should use bzr merges instead.05:06
ScottKWhich might be OK except:05:06
ScottK1.  All through the distributed development disucssions whenever it's been brought up, there have been repeated assurances that no one would be forced to switch.05:07
ScottK2.  There's a very long list of packages that won't import yet and so can't be done this way.05:07
ScottK3.  It's complex and not completely documented.  Between Laserjock and I we tried 5 merges tonight and managed only one upload.05:08
maco#2: there is?05:08
macoi thought james said all the packages were in bzr now05:08
ScottK?05:08
ScottKHe may have said that, but the instructions on merging using bzr say to consult a list of packages that won't import and that list is still there and not short.05:09
shtylmanhmm05:09
ScottKThe one upload I managed, I only managed becuase I asked how to get stuff done.05:09
macohm ok then... <100?05:09
shtylmanI was always under the impression that merging will all happen in bzr now..05:09
ScottKI dodn't count.05:09
ScottKdod/did05:09
shtylmanand that the deb sources would also be in bzr05:09
shtylmanso that it wouldn't be a problem05:09
ScottKshtylman: It will because there is nothing other than a completely manual merge as an option.05:10
ScottKshtylman: That's an interesting theory.05:10
ScottK4.  Even once you know the workflow, it has more steps, more things to go wrong, and is pretty generally inferior to the old way of doing things.05:10
ScottKThe added granularity of history that using a VCS would normally give you isn't relevant for merges.05:11
shtylmanI see05:12
shtylmanwhat type of merges are we talking about here?05:12
shtylmanI honestly have no idea05:12
shtylmanas I have never done package management05:12
ScottKIt's for when we have local changes from Debian and they update their package.05:13
shtylmanI see05:13
ScottKSo the Debian changes and the Ubuntu changes get merged from a common ancestor.  Then you have to figure out how much of the Ubuntu difference is still relvant and needs to be preserved05:14
shtylmanmakes sense05:14
shtylmanseems kinda like a rebase05:14
shtylmanI guess it kinda is05:14
ScottKIn a sense it is.05:14
ScottKshtylman: What VCS do you use the most?05:15
shtylmanmostly git05:15
shtylmanobviously bzr for ubuntu stuff05:16
macogit...i should learn more git05:16
shtylmanI like bzr05:17
ScottKshtylman: Right, so say you'd only used git, had used it for years, and someone took it away and gave you an alpha release of bzr that you had to use instead (or you could just not use a VCS) and they did it with no warning.05:17
shtylmanI just really like some git features more05:17
ScottKI'm not opposed to bzr.  I generally like it.  I've promoted it's use on $work projects.05:17
shtylman... yea... not good05:17
ScottKThis particular use case is just not yet fully baked.05:18
shtylmanI can see where that would be a problem05:18
JontheEchidnadidn't they try to do that once already?05:18
shtylmanI guess the migration is just hard05:18
JontheEchidnaback when bzr sucked?05:18
ScottKSo that's kinda the current situation from my perspective.05:18
shtylmanI see05:18
macohey i have a merging question. how should my debian/changelog look at the end?05:18
ScottKJontheEchidna: We tried it during Gutsy in Kubuntu like we are now (for the Debian dirs), but that was a team choice to try it, it wasn't required.05:19
macocombine all the changelog entries that are ubuntu-specific into one new changelog that comes after the last debian one?05:19
JontheEchidnaI combine all changelog entries, sticking the new debian entries in chronological order05:19
ScottKmaco: All the previous Ubuntu entries should stil be there in order.05:19
ScottKOne can argue chronological or version order.05:19
macochronological or version order?05:20
macoversion order, right?05:20
macooh05:20
macoheh05:20
macodidnt read scott's second line ;)05:20
* ScottK uses vesion order generally.05:20
ScottKThere are times when it doesn't quite make sense.05:21
ScottKThen the new entry at the top should document all the remaining changes.05:21
macowould you be willing to sponsor a mergey upload for me?05:31
crimsunjust to point, none of the packages I oversee are imported.05:33
macocrimsun: arent they all git anyway?05:33
macocrimsun: hey wanna upload hunspell? http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/needs_sponsorship/05:33
crimsunpkg-alsa is entirely SVN05:33
crimsunmaco: maybe in 25 minutes; I need to walk home05:34
macook05:34
macocrimsun: hey did you read email from me?05:34
crimsunno05:34
macocrimsun: pm real quick?05:34
crimsunI'm really stretched thin ATM05:34
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
crimsunmaco: your changelog is pretty curt. Which changes did you retain/drop?06:49
macocrimsun: kept all. it was a clean merge, just the changelog had a conflict06:49
crimsuncan you respin with a more verbose changelog entry for the next merger?06:50
macothe ubuntu changes are just a list of extra words to add to the dictionary06:50
macoyeah06:50
crimsunno need to list them all; you can use "refer to version X for extra words"06:50
maco* Merge with Debian, keeping all Ubuntu changes (extrawords.txt and its support in debian/rules)06:52
macothat work?06:52
crimsunyep06:52
macoum, by the way...i cant test this build in pbuilder...that whole "aptitude is fubar" thing07:03
macoaptitude just spits a stacktrace at me while trying to install the build-deps07:03
macobut since it built in debian and given what the ubuntu changes are..it should theoretically build fine on the buildd07:04
ScottKmaco: There's more than one way to do it.07:04
macoScottK: im listening07:04
ScottKLook in the pbuilder config file in /ect.07:04
ScottKIIRC there's a dependency resolver option that doesn't use aptitude.07:05
macoah i see07:06
maco PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD=  should i use gdebi? manpage says thats faster than classic07:07
macoScottK: thanks! the build is running now07:14
macocrimsun: ok, reupload with more verbose changelog and with having successfully built in pbuilder07:23
macooh my its 230am?07:23
ScottKNow it is.07:29
maco*snort*07:30
* crimsun points maco toward -v20070829-2ubuntu407:30
macowhatd i do?07:30
crimsunyou forgot to include the new Debian changelog entry07:30
crimsunI rerolled the source package for you this time; just keep it in mind for next time, please.07:31
macowhatd i forget what?07:31
maco-3ubuntu1 is the new entry07:31
maco-2ubuntu4 was the previous version in ubuntu07:32
maco-3 is in debian07:32
macoso -3ubuntu1 is the new merged one07:32
macocrimsun: what>07:33
maco*?07:33
crimsunpassing -v20070829-2ubuntu4 to debuild -S means "include all changelog entries *since* this version in the _source.changes"07:33
crimsunwithout it, you only include the most recent, which omits -307:34
macoooooooo i see07:34
macoim sorry. thank you07:34
crimsunnp. Z.07:34
ScottKUnless of course you're doing it the new fashioned way and using bzr builddeb where -v means be verbose.07:35
macoum actually, yes i was using bzr builddeb07:49
macoi assume thisd be: bzr builddeb --old=lp:debian/blahblah  then?07:50
macooh, probably -rREVNO07:51
macohmm nope. not -rREVNO07:52
macohelps if i read all of --help's output...07:53
ScottKTo pass -v like in dpkg-buildpackage it's -- -v.07:57
ScottKBecause -S -- -v is so intuitive07:57
nixternalScottK: bzr merging not your friend?08:06
MamarokRiddell: for the record, cjwatson talked to doko about a glibc backport. It's in doko's hands now08:16
Mamarokthe number of duplicates of https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196207 is piling up every day...08:17
ubottuKDE bug 196207 in general "GTK/Glib applications crash when running under KDE4 3x (malloc_printerr, free(): invalid pointer)" [Crash,Resolved: upstream]08:18
Mamarokgah, the bug description is not really accurate, extends to Qt applications, too08:19
jussi01agateau: ping09:16
agateaujussi01: pong09:19
jussi01agateau: I understand you are notifications goto man?09:20
agateaujussi01: sort of :)09:20
jussi01:D09:20
jussi01agateau: Im using 4.4 beta, notifications seem well screwed. they seem to stick around forever, unless you click on the cross. ie. we get a huge accumulation of little numbers that never go down...09:24
agateauoh that, I am sort of the "alternative notifications goto man", then09:24
agateauI created Colibri just because I didn't like the Plasma notifications09:25
jussi01agateau: ahh :D09:25
agateauNot sure I can help you here, you want to discuss this with notmart on #plasma09:25
jussi01what, pray tell, is colibri?09:25
agateauhttp://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Colibri?content=11714709:26
agateaujussi01: you may find this post interesting as well: http://agateau.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/introducing-colibri-an-alternative-to-plasma-notifications/09:26
* jussi01 reads09:28
ghostcubeagateau: hmmm i will try this passive thingy09:36
ghostcubecause i dont like this monumental plasma notifies :)09:36
agateau:)09:37
ghostcubeas jussi01 sayed a lot of them if you dont cancel them09:37
ghostcubeo.o09:37
ghostcubehmm is there already a package or can i ask on getdeb for packaging it o.o09:37
agateaughostcube: I haven't packaged it, but it was (I think) nixternal who commented on the post that someone was packaging it09:38
ghostcubeah ok09:38
ghostcubenixternal: winke winke09:38
Riddelloffice party time!09:42
ghostcubewth this looks so borked even if its wanted09:42
ghostcubehttps://code.launchpad.net/projects09:43
* Riddell hangs tinsel up around the place09:43
ghostcubeRiddell: ??09:43
ghostcubexmas party?09:43
agateauRiddell: is this an Edimburgh-only office party? the Chapelle-Rablais office is hard at work!09:44
ghostcubeseems hes busy doing nothing :D09:44
Riddelloh the Edinburgh office is hard at work, just with Slade playing in the background09:44
agateauoh ok :)09:45
=== Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan
Quintasangood morning10:01
ghostcubemorning10:02
ulysses__11 am is not morning:)10:14
ghostcube:P10:55
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
Quintasanulysses__: depends on when you got up :P11:01
ulysses__at 7:30 :/11:01
Quintasanwhat a shame, I went to sleep at about 5 o clock in the morning and got up at 1011:02
Quintasan:D11:02
ulysses__can't sleep at night?:P11:02
Quintasanyeah, pretty much11:02
Quintasanduring the day too :P11:02
Mamarokwhat did I miss about virtuoso?11:04
QuintasanMamarok: nothing, 6.0.1 is still not working or debian guy is crazy11:04
QuintasanMamarok: the problem is probably with virtuoso or nepomuk itself11:05
QuintasanI've tried to poke in #nepomuk-kde but there was noone answering11:05
MamarokQuintasan|Szel: write a mail directly to Sebastian Trueg, or poke him in @nepomuk-kde11:29
Mamarokhere comes a packaging problem:11:46
Mamarokgah, /me hates bash when it doesn't allow Ctrl+C *grrr*11:47
Mamarokdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-window-manager_4%3a4.3.85-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa3_amd64.deb (--unpack):11:48
Mamarok trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/config/aurorae.knsrc', which is also in package kwin-style-aurorae 0:0.2.1-0ubuntu111:48
Mamarokhere you go ^^11:48
Mamarokand btw, there is a typo in the website announcement:11:50
Mamarokudo apt-get dist-uprade11:50
* Mamarok is not good at copy-paste today11:51
Mamarokit reads dist-uprade, missing the g11:51
=== ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Lucid Alpha 1 Released! | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | Oustanding merges: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html |Congratulations to Quintasan for becoming a MOTU
QuintasanHello13:57
ghostcubeehlo14:08
Riddellpleasingly I have no merges with my name next to it14:12
Riddelloh actually it helps if I search by my launchpad id14:14
Quintasan:D14:15
* Quintasan is off to help his dad, then back to backtracing crashes14:16
* jussi01 hugs Riddell14:17
freeflyingScottK: arounds?14:21
ScottKfreeflying: Yes.14:21
ScottKRiddell: We're really close to having things about as built as we are going to.  How would you feel about doing your qt4-x11 upload to fix powerpc today?15:31
Riddellhmm, I havn't started looking at it, I don't know the right syntax for arch specific patches15:33
Riddellor it may need to be done in the rules file specially15:33
Riddelllet me look into it15:33
ScottKWhatver you did for armel last cycle (IIRC nepomuk stuff) worked out OK.15:34
ScottKSparc is fully built now.15:55
seele_ScottK: you have a sparc station?16:34
=== seele_ is now known as seele
ScottKseele: No.  Just tracking it in Launchpad.16:34
seeleah16:35
ScottKIA64 is done now too (don't have that either)16:35
Lex79JontheEchidna: when you got a second can you ack colibri on revu? thanks16:53
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ghostcubehi18:07
ghostcubeupdated to beta 2 worked fine :)18:07
ghostcubeanyone knows who is doing the ppa for nvidia vdpau drivers ?18:08
ghostcubeah got it njsnider18:10
ghostcubebjsnider18:10
ghostcubeo.o18:10
ghostcubeok Qt 4.6 and kde 4.4 beta 2 in combination with new nvidia driver definetly rox18:48
ghostcubeteh fast18:48
Blizzzwell, Qt 4.6 sux for me, lot of bug reports refering to it18:51
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=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
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zegenieanyone have any idea about why kded4 eats 100% cpu in 4.4 beta2?19:29
Riddellno, try unloading modules or using gdb19:34
* Daskreech waves20:21
DaskreechQuintasan|Szel: ping20:23
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Mamarokjust installed that Beta 2 stuff on Karmic, I have all my desktop settings gone (activities, etc.), 2 panels (which luckily at least kept the settings, but twice, one smaller and hard to get rid of) and plasma crashes galore. I guess this is to be expected?21:05
MamarokOh and Akonadi doesn't run anymore21:05
Mamarok+: it's fast, desktop effects work like double speed now21:07
Daskreechback up ~/.kde before upgrades21:07
=== blizzz is now known as Blizzz
dhillon-v10nixternal, hi :D I looked at the lucid todo for kubuntu and are there any developmental tasks I can take part in21:48
ScottKMamarok: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/2.10.2-2ubuntu422:28
ScottKRiddell: kdepim finally finished on armel, so that's fully built too.22:29
txwikingerhttp://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/8-of-the-best-kde-distributions-657523?artc_pg=322:30
* ScottK now waits for Riddell brilliant debian/rules hack for powerpc only patches22:30
ScottKtxwikinger: You have been busy.  We all chatted about that ages ago.22:33
dhillon-v10ScottK, hi :D how are you22:40
ScottKdhillon-v10: Busy22:40
dhillon-v10ScottK, do you have any idea when merge-o-matic is going to be back, I heard its down right now22:41
ScottKNever unless someone fixes it.22:42
dhillon-v10ScottK, alright that's good enough for an answer :D I just continue my work as it then22:42
ScottKdhillon-v10: The answer wasn't a joke.  It's completely maintainerless right now, so unless someone volunteers to work on it, it won't get fixed.22:43
MamarokScottK: what about the backport to Karmic?22:43
ScottKMamarok: Rules say it has to be fixed in the development release first, so this would be step one.22:44
dhillon-v10ScottK, I am really good at web designing, much better than packaging, can I get working on it, please22:44
ScottKAll I know is I say it building.22:44
MamarokOK, nice to know :)22:44
ScottKdhillon-v10: Source is in the merge-o-matic project on Launchpad.22:44
dhillon-v10ScottK, alright so what's the main problem behind it, is it not updating the packages22:45
ScottKdhillon-v10: It needs to deal with v3 format source packages.22:45
dhillon-v10ScottK, what's v3 format package22:46
ScottKdhillon-v10: Remember the start of the conversation where I said I was busy?  Google can help you with that one.22:46
dhillon-v10ScottK, I am sorry I didn't mean to bother you, I'll google that22:47
ZoraelIs the Akonadi kcm module being transitioned out in 4.4? I see it's still in kdepim-runtime but it doesn't have a .desktop service entry.23:21
ScottKZorael: It's in a separate binary now.23:22
ScottK(I think)23:22
JontheEchidnaZorael: upstream decided to remove the module, since basically the only thing you could do with it is break Akonadi (unless you really knew what you were doing)23:33
ZoraelJontheEchidna: Ah, okay, makes sense.23:34
* Riddell puts up some mistletoe here too and stand underneith it23:39
* claydoh dcc's smooches to Riddell :)23:49
Riddellyay!23:49
* claydoh is enjoying his beta2 presents , many thanks to all!23:51
RiddellScottK: what do you think of this? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/qt/ubuntu/revision/5023:52
RiddellI've really no idea if that's the right syntax in rules23:52
ScottKLooking23:52
nixternalunix:!mac:*-g++*:QMAKE_LFLAGS += -Wl,--gc-sections   <- is this common for removing this line?23:54
nixternalback in the day, I would add that line when building on my old mac23:54
crimsunthe linker explodes on ppc with --gc-sections23:55
crimsunmeaning 10.04's current linker explodes on ppc23:55
ScottKRiddell: Looks right.  Looks similar to what you did in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase-runtime/ubuntu/revision/6923:57
ScottKOf course I left the #ENDIF of of my IA64 build fix on the first try, so don't go by me.23:59

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