[15:52] <Whoopie> jdong: Hi, could you have a look at bug #482255? I made a debdiff to get tuxonice-userui working in karmic.
[16:12] <Quintasan> \o
[16:14] <xnox> is /usr/share/pixmaps used nowadays at all?
[16:14] <xnox> (i know packages put files there but do any of those actually shown to the user)
[16:29] <joaopinto> xnox, yes, that's the regular place for the icons used on the .desktop files
[16:30] <xnox> joaopinto: what about /usr/share/icons/hicolor/size/apps/ ?
[16:30] <joaopinto> afaik there is some order which gnome/menu/whatever uses to determine the icon filename
[16:31] <xnox> Freedesktop.org icon spec and all that jazz?
[17:08] <bjsnider> why was the shared library package libmutter-private0 renamed to libmutter0 in ubuntu?
[17:12] <ScottK> What makes you think that happened?
[17:13] <ScottK> A quick reading of debian/changelog make it clear that's not the case.
[17:15] <bjsnider> i am looking at the control file for the latest mutter upstream. the shared library is called libmutter-private0
[17:16] <bjsnider> so either ubuntu changed it or debian changed it
[17:16] <bjsnider> because they don't match
[17:17] <ScottK> OK, I thought you meant changed from Debian.
[17:17] <bjsnider> yes, changed from debian
[17:18] <ScottK> The Ubuntu packages don't derive from Debian.
[17:18] <bjsnider> there's nothing in the debian changelog about a name change
[17:18] <bjsnider> the ubuntu mutter packages do not derive from debian?
[17:18] <ScottK> Every Ubuntu debian/changelog entry is 0ubuntuX
[17:19] <bjsnider> yes but i'm sure originally it did
[17:19] <ScottK> On what basis?
[17:19] <bjsnider> well, why create a brand new package when you can just pull whatever debian has?
[17:20] <bjsnider> besides, they're so close. they're using similar patches, and scripts
[17:22] <ScottK> I'd guess they both derive from metacity packaging.
[17:22] <ScottK> It looks like didrocks mostly dealt with it in Ubuntu, so he'd be the one to ask.
[17:24] <bjsnider> well, i don't understand why two devs are doing the exact same thing here.
[17:24]  * ScottK neither.  That's why I suggested ask didrocks.
[17:24] <bjsnider> is it common for debian and ubuntu to spend time packaging the same thing independently?
[17:24] <ScottK> It's more common than it should be.
[17:24] <bjsnider> i see
[17:25] <bjsnider> is that because of disagreements over how things should be packaged?
[17:25] <ScottK> Sometimes.
[17:25] <ScottK> Sometimes it's just because the distros work differently.
[17:25] <bjsnider> yes but i thought the policy was that ubuntu didn't want to get too far away from debian
[17:26] <bjsnider> but i guess it doesn't work that way in practice
[17:26] <ScottK> For example, the Debian KDE team is currently working on getting KDE 4.3.4 into Testing, while in Kubuntu we are packaging KDE 4.4 betas.
[17:26] <ScottK> bjsnider: You can't generalize.
[17:26] <ScottK> I've done two QA uploads in Debian this week to push Ubuntu changes on orphaned packages back into Debian and I'm working on another one still.
[17:27] <ScottK> Going back to the KDE case, before we started on 4.4 stuff, we merged Debian's changes that we didn't have and gave them an analysis of our changes to let them know what we had that would be useful.
[17:28] <ScottK> For KDE, we always merge at least once a cycle and so while the packages always have differences, we stay relatively close to each other..
[17:28] <bjsnider> but the fellow that has been packaging mutter in debian, which is newer than the one in either karmic or lucid (i think) is an ubuntu guy as well
[17:28] <bjsnider> i think he's a motu
[17:29] <bjsnider> he has a launchpad page anyway
[17:29] <ScottK> Every Debian uploader has a Launchpad page.
[17:29] <bjsnider> but different people have been packaging mutter in ubuntu
[17:29] <ScottK> When packages get sync'ed uploaded by them,  a stub account gets vreated.
[17:30] <ScottK> AFAIK, kov is not active in Ubuntu.
[17:30] <bjsnider> ok
[17:30] <ScottK> For mutter specifically, you'd have to ask didrocks.
[17:31] <ScottK> I know I put a lot of effort into pushing Ubuntu changes back into Debian and many other Ubuntu devs do too.
[17:31] <bjsnider> what i wonder is if anyone knows that the shared library packages have different names
[17:31] <ScottK> That doesn't mean it couldn't be better.
[17:31] <ScottK> My guess is that no one ever looked and that talking to didrocks about it is the right solution.
[18:25] <didrocks> bjsnider: ScottK: I will merge the two packages starting mid january. For the record, I created mutter package first into Ubuntu (Debian hadn't one at this one). I opened an ITP into Debian to get it there whence I was happy with it into Debian. In the meanwhile, kov packaged it without looking at ITP, so, doubling the effort :/
[18:25] <ScottK> didrocks: Thanks.
[18:43] <bjsnider> didrocks, in the process, kov also named the shared library differently than yours, and created a separate package called "girl" somethingorother that doesn't exist in ubuntu
[18:53] <Quintasan> good evening
[19:31] <emet> what is the basic procedure for packaging software which has no versioned releases?
[19:32] <directhex> emet, it's in a VCS?
[19:32] <emet> well actually it has versioned releases
[19:33] <emet> nm :o
[19:33] <emet> but the version number is: 20091021
[19:33] <emet> that's I guess the day of release
[19:33] <emet> http://sourceforge.net/projects/reduce-algebra/files/
[19:34] <ScottK> Usually.
[19:36] <directhex> it's numerically sortable, so go with it
[19:41] <emet> so I want to try to package for the first time, so I should just follow the procedure outlined in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing if I want to get it into Ubuntu's repository?
[19:42] <crimsun> I recommend seeing if it's in Debian first.
[19:42] <emet> okay
[19:42] <emet> I just picked some random bug I thought looked interesting
[19:42] <emet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/450233
[19:43] <emet> I'm building it now just to see if I can build it manually
[19:44] <emet> it is taking forever to build
[19:47] <emet> reduce doesn't seem to be in Debian, it's a CAS that'd been open sourced pretty recently
[21:23] <didrocks> bjsnider: I'll have a look mid-january (want to enjoy a little some holidays :)) and will merge the package into lucid. Into karmic, I just make mutter some kind of metacity's clone concerning packaging (reporting some patches, etc.)
[21:24] <bjsnider> i'm giving it the old college try right now