[19:28] <slackguru> So, how doesone sift through what is operated by upstart and whatis still operated by common Sys-V scripting?
[19:32] <slackguru> It seems that if upstart plans to 'replace' the standard System-V scripting, that the /etc/init.d should also be replaced.
[19:33] <slackguru> Does UBUNTU plan to move further away from the current  standards? We already have a perfectly good System-V init model and the BSD style init model both of which are considered standards? I guess I don'tunderstand what is hoped to be achieved by implementing upstart.
[19:35] <slackguru> I am reading on upstartnow, and am wishing I could find some documentation on removing it. I am familiar with the System-V and the BSD style init that Slackware and BSD use, but right now, upstart just seems unwanted.
[19:38] <slackguru> It seems, that because of UPSTART, I have unwanted start-up scripts that  remain after software removal.
[19:38] <slackguru> It also appears that some of the things that upstart controls do not properly appear as system services.
[19:40] <slackguru> Because of this, I can not disable certain things fromrunning on start up without figuring out what exactly it is that upstart does. The website is fairly vague and contains very poor examples.
[19:40] <slackguru> Does Sys-V still run cron and atd or is that controlled by upstart. What about Evolution?
[19:56] <Md> slackguru: some ubuntu packages already replaced their init scripts with upstart config files
[19:56] <slackguru> I see that
[19:56] <slackguru> ln -s to another folder, thus all the confusion
[19:58] <slackguru> I have been immersed in the upstart.ubuntu.com website and it does not appear clear how to reverse the process. I recently upgraded from 8.04.3 LTS to 9.10 Karmic since they havethe same support ending date and will upgrade to the next LTS when available. When did upstart become a permanent addition?
[19:59] <Md> reverse what?
[20:01] <slackguru> It appears that upstart may be the culprit behind some of the problematic things I am experiencing and I would like to remove it until I can readu up on it further, but those packages that have already updated their scripts to upstart will then become problematic.
[20:01] <slackguru> brb
[20:02] <Md> ok, you cannot
[20:02] <Md> and I highly doubt that it's at fault
[20:02] <Md> anyway, this is a development channel. I recommend you look for help on an users-oriented channel like #ubuntu
[20:08] <slackguru> That isn't what upstart.ubuntu.com suggests.
[20:11] <slackguru> And the folks in #ubuntu are for more generalized support... Discussion about upstart (development and otherwise) takes place in #upstart on irc.freenode.net
[20:12] <slackguru> I need help with upstart, it's proper operation, converting everything to using it or removing it entirely. Are either a possibility?
[20:13] <raphael___> I guess it would be easier to help if you at least say what sort of problems you are having, in #ubuntu
[20:14] <Md> no. you cannot remove it nor convert other packages
[20:15] <raphael___> some init scripts have already been converted to upstart jobs in karmic, and more should follow. Most linux distributions are transitioning as well
[20:16] <slackguru> Well, I guess I had better learn it then.
[20:38] <slackguru> Looks like it wasimplemented back in 6.10
[20:41] <raphael___> yes, but was running in sysv compatibility mode (and still does, except for the base system which has been converted to upstart jobs)
[20:45] <slackguru> I can see the need for it now, wanting external calls to the kernel at random times for the appearance of new hardware in a hot swap environment is very attractive.
[20:55] <slackguru> event driven
[22:14] <JanC> I'm sure removing upstart is an option, if you don't mind configuring your favourite "init" system by hand
[22:36] <ion> slackguru: “Perfectly good System-V init model”? That’s a false statement. Sysvrc scripts required to boot a modern system are full of race conditions and ugly hacks such as having the entire boot sequence wait in a busy loop for some random device to appear. That’s one of the major reasons for Upstart’s very existence.
[22:40] <raphael___> "async is the new trend" ;-)
[22:47] <JanC> I think some dependency loops will require upstart-specific code in applications to get solved though...
[22:49] <ion> slackguru: http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/ “Why change it?”