[19:28] So, how doesone sift through what is operated by upstart and whatis still operated by common Sys-V scripting? [19:32] It seems that if upstart plans to 'replace' the standard System-V scripting, that the /etc/init.d should also be replaced. [19:33] Does UBUNTU plan to move further away from the current standards? We already have a perfectly good System-V init model and the BSD style init model both of which are considered standards? I guess I don'tunderstand what is hoped to be achieved by implementing upstart. [19:35] I am reading on upstartnow, and am wishing I could find some documentation on removing it. I am familiar with the System-V and the BSD style init that Slackware and BSD use, but right now, upstart just seems unwanted. [19:38] It seems, that because of UPSTART, I have unwanted start-up scripts that remain after software removal. [19:38] It also appears that some of the things that upstart controls do not properly appear as system services. [19:40] Because of this, I can not disable certain things fromrunning on start up without figuring out what exactly it is that upstart does. The website is fairly vague and contains very poor examples. [19:40] Does Sys-V still run cron and atd or is that controlled by upstart. What about Evolution? [19:56] slackguru: some ubuntu packages already replaced their init scripts with upstart config files [19:56] I see that [19:56] ln -s to another folder, thus all the confusion [19:58] I have been immersed in the upstart.ubuntu.com website and it does not appear clear how to reverse the process. I recently upgraded from 8.04.3 LTS to 9.10 Karmic since they havethe same support ending date and will upgrade to the next LTS when available. When did upstart become a permanent addition? [19:59] reverse what? [20:01] It appears that upstart may be the culprit behind some of the problematic things I am experiencing and I would like to remove it until I can readu up on it further, but those packages that have already updated their scripts to upstart will then become problematic. [20:01] brb [20:02] ok, you cannot [20:02] and I highly doubt that it's at fault [20:02] anyway, this is a development channel. I recommend you look for help on an users-oriented channel like #ubuntu [20:08] That isn't what upstart.ubuntu.com suggests. [20:11] And the folks in #ubuntu are for more generalized support... Discussion about upstart (development and otherwise) takes place in #upstart on irc.freenode.net [20:12] I need help with upstart, it's proper operation, converting everything to using it or removing it entirely. Are either a possibility? [20:13] I guess it would be easier to help if you at least say what sort of problems you are having, in #ubuntu [20:14] no. you cannot remove it nor convert other packages [20:15] some init scripts have already been converted to upstart jobs in karmic, and more should follow. Most linux distributions are transitioning as well [20:16] Well, I guess I had better learn it then. [20:38] Looks like it wasimplemented back in 6.10 [20:41] yes, but was running in sysv compatibility mode (and still does, except for the base system which has been converted to upstart jobs) [20:45] I can see the need for it now, wanting external calls to the kernel at random times for the appearance of new hardware in a hot swap environment is very attractive. [20:55] event driven [22:14] I'm sure removing upstart is an option, if you don't mind configuring your favourite "init" system by hand [22:36] slackguru: “Perfectly good System-V init model”? That’s a false statement. Sysvrc scripts required to boot a modern system are full of race conditions and ugly hacks such as having the entire boot sequence wait in a busy loop for some random device to appear. That’s one of the major reasons for Upstart’s very existence. [22:40] "async is the new trend" ;-) [22:47] I think some dependency loops will require upstart-specific code in applications to get solved though... [22:49] slackguru: http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/ “Why change it?”