[00:00] <BUGabundo> smplayer was broken for me in lucid
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> won't need anything else
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> smplayer works great here
[00:00] <bjsnider> billybigrigger, no, gmplayer is an old gui that is no longer maintained
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> bjsnider, i was going to say, gmplayer sucked
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> will have to try gnome-mplayer
[00:00] <yoasif> gnome-mplayer is pretty horrible heh
[00:00] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger don't
[00:01] <yoasif> billybigrigger_: maybe you can figure out how to make good bug reports for that app heh
[00:01] <BUGabundo> totem, vlc, mplauer and smppayer are enoufh
[00:01] <yoasif> totem has slooooooow startup
[00:01] <BUGabundo> no
[00:01] <BUGabundo> very fast here
[00:01] <BUGabundo> faster then vlc
[00:01] <BUGabundo> mplayer beats all, of course
[00:01] <yoasif> i just use mplayer-nogui
[00:01] <Sarvatt> yoasif: try something like mplayer -ao pulse -vo vdpau -vc ffh264vdpau file manually?
[00:02] <Sarvatt> you can use mplayer -identify -vo vdpau -frames 0 file to dump the info btw
[00:02] <yoasif> Sarvatt: just tried that, now i get no video, but i hear the audio
[00:03] <Sarvatt> does it have subtitles?
[00:03] <Sarvatt> it might be non-comformant and vdpau might not accelerate it
[00:03] <yoasif> no subs
[00:04] <bjsnider> yoasif, does it work if you use xv and the normal ffmpeg codecs?
[00:05] <yoasif> bjsnider: when i try ffmpeg i get Forced video codec: ffmpeg
[00:05] <yoasif> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x31637661.
[00:06] <bjsnider> the codec should be ffh264 i think
[00:06] <yoasif> bjsnider: yes, it works with ffh264
[00:07] <bjsnider> without any of those error messages?
[00:07] <Sarvatt> i had to reencode alot of my old hd rips to get them to work with gpu acceleration, it's made for standardized profiles that come on hd-dvd and blurays and stuff so its easy to encode your own stuff out of spec
[00:08] <yoasif> bjsnider: yes, without the error messages
[00:08] <yoasif> Sarvatt: ahh :/
[00:08] <yoasif> Sarvatt: so i may just be SOL?
[00:08] <bjsnider> yoasif, are you using the latest vdpau? where did you get it?
[00:08] <yoasif> bjsnider: i used the vdpau ppa
[00:09] <yoasif> still using 185 though
[00:09] <bjsnider> ah, well that could be the issue
[00:10] <yoasif> i can downgrade to the lucid versions, but those have the same issue
[00:10] <billybigrigger> yoasif, did you get a sample hosted somewhere for one of us to test?
[00:11] <yoasif> billybigrigger: still opening it in avidemux heh
[00:11] <bjsnider> you can upgrade to the 190 or 195 driver which has numerous vdpau fixes since the 185
[00:12] <yoasif> bjsnider: i had major issues even trying to install those via ppa... ie it didn't work at all :/
[00:12] <bjsnider> when was this?
[00:12] <yoasif> and i don't want to install using the nvidia installer
[00:12] <yoasif> like 4 days ago?
[00:12] <yoasif> i can try again if you recommend it
[00:12] <billybigrigger> yoasif, install nvidia-195-glx
[00:12] <bjsnider> what day is this anyway?
[00:12] <billybigrigger> sunday
[00:13] <bjsnider> what year is this?
[00:13] <billybigrigger> bjsnider, thanks for the nvidia help earlier btw
[00:13] <billybigrigger> 2009
[00:13] <bjsnider> what planet am i on?
[00:13] <billybigrigger> mars
[00:13] <bjsnider> thought so
[00:13] <bjsnider> wait, the 185 works in lucid?
[00:15] <yoasif> bjsnider: yeah
[00:15] <bjsnider> over time, vdpau has gotten more and more tolerant of badly encoded crap
[00:16] <yoasif> bjsnider: it's actually the only driver that worked for me, but i will try 195 in a few
[00:16] <bjsnider> just upload a clip so i can test it
[00:16] <bjsnider> because i'll tell you what, you could submit it to stephen warren for testing too
[00:17] <yoasif> yea i will upload a clip as soon as i can get a few second sample
[00:17] <yoasif> avidemux is still indexing the file heh
[00:17] <billybigrigger> will vlc play it? i think you can save samples through vlc
[00:18] <yoasif> billybigrigger: yeah it does play it
[00:18] <yoasif> how can i do that?
[00:19] <billybigrigger> i think im full of it
[00:20] <yoasif> np
[00:25] <bjsnider> you can do it in mkvmerge
[00:26] <bjsnider> start a new encode, but stop it after 10 seconds or so
[00:26] <bjsnider> keep everything default but change the name so it doesn't overwrite the original
[00:27] <billybigrigger> ffmpeg should be able to aswell
[00:34] <Sarvatt> yoasif: where did you get the mplayer from? was it compiled against the vdpau in nvidia's 185 driver or libvdpau?
[00:37] <yoasif> Sarvatt: lemme check
[00:37] <yoasif> Sarvatt: lucid multiverse
[00:37] <Sarvatt> NVIDIA: could not open the device file /dev/nvidiactl (Permission denied).
[00:37] <yoasif> Installed: 2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu12
[00:37] <bjsnider> what?
[00:38] <bjsnider> aren't you using the nvidia-vdpau ppa?
[00:38] <yoasif> bjsnider: i was, and then after i got the nvidia driver working, i downgraded everything because i never actually got it working when using the ppa
[00:38] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, add yourself to the video group
[00:38] <Sarvatt> there ya go yeah
[00:39] <Sarvatt> thats in his log
[00:39] <bjsnider> yoasif, you downgraded everything except the driver?
[00:40] <yoasif> bjsnider: lemme check that too...yeah
[00:40] <yoasif> 185.18.36-0ubuntu10~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1
[00:41] <bjsnider> you need libvdpau and the mplayer from the ppa
[00:41] <bjsnider> libvdpau should already be there
[00:41] <yoasif> alright -- well it never worked with just plain lucid either
[00:41] <yoasif> but i should go ahead and switch to the vdpau ppa?
[00:41] <Sarvatt> yeah mplayer in ubuntu doesnt have vdpau support :D
[00:41] <bjsnider> yes it does
[00:42] <yoasif> yeah it does
[00:42] <yoasif> it has since karmic
[00:42] <bjsnider> it's just old
[00:42] <yoasif> heh
[00:42] <bjsnider> really, really old
[00:43] <bjsnider> yoasif, you can downgrade if anything bad happens
[00:49] <Sarvatt> oh vdpau support was added in october, no wonder i missed it
[00:50] <bjsnider> it's much older than that
[00:50] <bjsnider> the mplayer pull happened in april
[00:50] <yoasif> bjsnider: yea ill give it a shot in a few
[00:50] <bjsnider> probably using even older vdpau code
[00:51] <bjsnider> yoasif, i was changing the ppa over to new stuff last week, so maybe you got caught during one of the broken packages. but they all work now, as far as i know
[00:51] <Sarvatt> yeah but it wasnt using  vdpau when I looked last, was just enabled on september 24th   * Enable VDPAU support by including vdpau headers in deb packaging.
[00:51] <bjsnider> which isn't necessary anymore since the library is built separately from the blob now
[00:55] <Sarvatt> hmm http://osdir.com/ml/debian-bugs-dist/2009-11/msg08681.html
[00:56] <Sarvatt> looks like its not falling back to another vo if theres a problem with the way its done now, and just doesnt display the video
[00:57] <htrejh> hi
[00:57] <htrejh> how can i update to +1 in kubuntu?
[00:58] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, in mplayer
[00:59] <htrejh> as update-manager -d doesn't work
[01:01] <penguin42> htrejh: I did a do-release-upgrade -d
[01:01] <htrejh> k thanks it was that, couldn't remember
[01:02] <htrejh> thx bye
[01:04] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: did you binary copy the mplayer in nvidia-vdpau to lucid or something? its compiled with gcc 4.4.1
[01:05] <bjsnider> let me check
[01:05] <bjsnider> i'm trying to remember
[01:05] <bjsnider> yes i did
[01:06] <Sarvatt> yoasif: its playing fine here
[01:07] <Sarvatt> i'm using 195.30 straight from nvidia though
[01:07] <bjsnider> basically at that point in time the queue times int he build system were so long that it seemed practical
[01:07] <Sarvatt> no i'm not actually -- nvidia-195-kernel-source                        195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1
[01:08] <bjsnider> where is the clip?
[01:09] <Sarvatt> yoasif: http://pastebin.com/dc86508b
[01:09] <Sarvatt> it's an 8gb "clip" :D
[01:11] <Sarvatt> did you binary copy nvidia-settings too or something?
[01:11] <bjsnider> he just needs to update to the packages in the ppa and he'll be fine
[01:11] <Sarvatt> because that doesnt compile against libxxf86vm-dev anymore
[01:11]  * bjsnider runs and hides
[01:12] <bjsnider> i promise the drivers are not binary copied
[01:12] <Sarvatt> they wouldnt work if they were :D
[01:13] <bjsnider> no, because they would end up providing the wrong xorg-video package
[01:14] <bjsnider> which i think is the problem with the one in the current lucid repo
[01:15] <Sarvatt> dynamic gamma adjusting probably wont work with the binary copied nvidia-settings from karmic though
[01:16]  * penguin42 wonders what level of open source radeon drivers will ship in Lucid; I'm pretty impressed with the current bleeding edge set
[01:16] <Sarvatt> i wish it was just that, recompiling 185 doesnt work here
[01:17] <Sarvatt> penguin42: the ones in lucid now will probably be there for a good chunk of time still, thats the last git checkout that works without updating other major plumbing
[01:18] <penguin42> Sarvatt: Does it get GL working on most stuff?
[01:18] <bjsnider> i get the impression major plumbing will be required for gnome-shell to be updated too, since i can't get it to build here
[01:18] <Sarvatt> next commit made it require libdrm 2.4.16 and current git needs 2.4.17, not to mention mesa needs 2.4.17 to get updated as well
[01:18] <penguin42> Sarvatt: It might be worth it you know - it's working like a dream
[01:18] <Sarvatt> gnome-shell builds fine here in jhbuild against lucid? i built it yesterday
[01:19] <bjsnider> i'm talking about a deb though
[01:19] <cjohnston> I hope someone knows this... Do md5 hashes normally get posted on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for alpha/beta releases?
[01:20] <Sarvatt> penguin42: updating libdrm horribly breaks intel for alot of people
[01:20] <penguin42> Sarvatt: Ah that wouldn't be good
[01:20]  * Sarvatt raises his hand :D
[01:20] <Sarvatt> thats whats holding it back
[01:20] <penguin42> Sarvatt: So I've now got one Intel machine and one Radeon!
[01:25] <penguin42> curious, synergy from my intrepid box to my karmic box if I type an @ sign I get an Ω
[01:27] <Sarvatt> what keyboard layout are you using?
[01:28] <penguin42> UK on both (102 maybe on one, 105 on the other - but that's just the windows keys difference)
[01:28] <penguin42> the key in question is the same one on both - shift ' - i.e. where " is on US keyboards
[01:30] <yoasif> any ideas on this error?
[01:30] <Sarvatt> looks like synergy is pretty broken for everything but US layouts from a quick glance
[01:30] <yoasif> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[01:30] <yoasif>  subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
[01:30] <yoasif> Errors were encountered while processing:
[01:30] <yoasif>  /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb
[01:30] <yoasif> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:30] <yoasif> A package failed to install.  Trying to recover:
[01:30] <yoasif> Setting up nvidia-195-kernel-source (195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1) ...
[01:31] <bjsnider> pastebin the full error msg
[01:31] <Sarvatt> purge your nvidia stuff besides nvidia-common before ya switch yoasif, one of the downsides of using ppa's for it
[01:32] <yoasif> is there a log?
[01:32] <yoasif> ok
[01:32] <Sarvatt> its has horribly complex packaging and people do it different on ppa's
[01:32] <yoasif> purging now
[01:33] <bjsnider> "horribly complex" is putting id mildly
[01:33] <Sarvatt> i just purge nvidia* then reinstall nvidia-common
[01:33] <bjsnider> alberto's trying to clean it up
[01:33] <Sarvatt> yeah I spent a good 2 days trying to fix it up before i gave up, its just too limited how its set up now
[01:34] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, is tehre a replacement package in lucid for the one you mentioned re: nvidia-settings?
[01:34] <Sarvatt> yepyep nvidia-graphics-drivers instead of having to changing hundreds of things to switch from a major version bump nvidia does every few months will be NICE
[01:35] <bjsnider> well, using one or two files with version numbers and then variables for the rest would be helpful
[01:36] <yoasif> http://pastebin.com/m4dab7aad
[01:36] <Sarvatt> x headers got split up alot between protos and lib-dev's now so one can have client side and the other have server side things, ya want to add x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev as well to the deps but you need to change one of the source files to point at the new header name too, one sec
[01:37] <bjsnider> it's a deiversion clash. those diversions are supposed to be REMOVED when you uninstall the previous version
[01:37] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289744
[01:37] <yoasif> got rid of the diversion clash i think
[01:37] <Sarvatt> patch is attached there
[01:38] <bjsnider> gentoo?
[01:38] <bjsnider> oh, no. i can't add a gentoo patch
[01:38] <bjsnider> that's out of the question
[01:38] <yoasif> http://pastebin.com/m41f6fd5b
[01:38] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=208926
[01:38] <Sarvatt> the blob already has a few gentoo patches in it! :D
[01:38] <yoasif> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[01:38] <yoasif> what is the issue there?
[01:39] <bjsnider> the diversion
[01:39] <yoasif> what should i do?
[01:39] <bjsnider> diversions are ont heir way out. it's going to be alternatives instead
[01:39] <bjsnider> purge all nvidia drivers
[01:39] <yoasif> did that heh
[01:39] <yoasif> ill do it again
[01:39] <bjsnider> try to reinstall the 195 driver
[01:40] <bjsnider> you might have to purge the mesa stuff too
[01:40] <yoasif> all of mesa?
[01:41] <bjsnider> as much as you can get
[01:41] <Sarvatt> packaging is probably sketchy in the 185 package you used
[01:41] <Sarvatt> yoasif: sudo nano /var/lib/dpkg/diversions
[01:41] <Sarvatt> err purge the nvidia stuff first
[01:41] <Sarvatt> then do that, and manually delete all the nvidia stuff
[01:42] <brian> Hey guys. Where is a good listing of the major features/changes/enhancements to Lucid?
[01:42] <Sarvatt> i used one of that sevenmachine persons blobs once and got left with a ton of dangling diversions i had to manually delete too
[01:43] <yoasif> ahh shit
[01:43] <yoasif> dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
[01:43] <yoasif>  unexpected eof reading `/var/lib/dpkg/diversions'
[01:43] <Sarvatt> go to the last line and hit enter?
[01:43] <yoasif> tried that
[01:44] <Sarvatt> there more than one newline at the end?
[01:44] <Sarvatt> shouldnt be able to go down more than one
[01:44] <bjsnider> dpkg-divert --remove --rename --package nvidia-glx-185 --divert /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > /dev/null
[01:44] <yoasif> just one newline at the end
[01:44] <bjsnider> that's in the postrm script here
[01:45] <yoasif> ahh maybe someone should pastebin their diversions file
[01:45] <yoasif> bjsnider: that script didnnt work
[01:45] <bjsnider> try running the command i just posted
[01:45] <Sarvatt> ya should have a diversions-old you can use as a reference
[01:45] <yoasif> ah great
[01:45] <yoasif> mving it
[01:46] <Sarvatt> wouldnt move it, just meant to see what ya screwed up lol
[01:46] <yoasif> hehe cping
[01:46] <bjsnider> maybe the diversions file was broken and that's why the script didn't work
[01:46] <Sarvatt> pastebin your diversions and diversions-old yoasif?
[01:47] <Sarvatt> or did ya already overwrite it lol
[01:47] <yoasif> already gone :/
[01:47] <bjsnider> doesn't matter. he'll just add new diversions when he installs the 195 driver
[01:47] <Sarvatt> its probably ok, last package that made it write the -old one was the 195 anyway
[01:47] <yoasif> still getting the old diversion error
[01:47] <yoasif> dpkg-divert: `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-195' clashes with `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-185'
[01:47] <yoasif> after running the command bjsnider told me to try
[01:48] <bjsnider> no, that's different
[01:48] <Sarvatt> yah theres more than just libGL
[01:48] <bjsnider> hold on
[01:48] <bjsnider> dpkg-divert --remove --rename --package nvidia-glx-185 --divert /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 > /dev/null
[01:49] <yoasif> after the command, i get
[01:49] <yoasif> dpkg-divert: `diversion of /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so to /usr/lib/nvidia/libglx.so.xserver-xorg-core by nvidia-glx-195' clashes with `diversion of /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so to /usr/lib/nvidia/libglx.so.xserver-xorg-core by nvidia-glx-185'
[01:49] <Sarvatt> probably like 5 more
[01:49] <bjsnider> we're going point by point right down the line
[01:49] <bjsnider> let me post the script and you can run the commands
[01:49] <yoasif> sounds good
[01:49] <Sarvatt> open up your diversions again and replace the filenames :D
[01:50] <yoasif> id rather run bjsnider's script :p
[01:50] <yoasif> i screwed it up once already
[01:50] <Sarvatt> I bet ya just left the 2 lines above the package names at the top
[01:51] <yoasif> hehe, i don't really understand how the diversions file works otherwise id just do it manually
[01:52] <bjsnider> http://pastebin.com/d587c02ef
[01:52] <Sarvatt> http://pastebin.com/d26858ad
[01:52] <bjsnider> those are the commands you haven't run yet that are in the postrm script
[01:52] <Sarvatt> wait
[01:52] <Sarvatt> thats wrong?
[01:53] <Sarvatt> rm -f /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so.185.53 2> /dev/null
[01:53] <Sarvatt> looks like you just changed 190.53 to 185.53 there
[01:53] <yoasif> ooh looks like it worked
[01:53] <yoasif> should i reboot and see if it worked? lol
[01:54] <Sarvatt> dont need to reboot
[01:54] <Sarvatt> err
[01:54] <Sarvatt> unless you mean to see if 195 works
[01:54] <Sarvatt> lol
[01:54] <yoasif> gdm restart?
[01:54] <yoasif> yeah haha
[01:54] <Sarvatt> thought ya meant to see if the diversion removal worked sorry
[01:54] <yoasif> i could do gdm restart right
[01:54] <yoasif> yeah
[01:54] <yoasif> that seems to have worked
[01:54] <yoasif> installed fine as far as i can tell
[01:54] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, that definitely looks wrong
[01:55] <Sarvatt> thats what was in the script ya posted
[01:55] <yoasif> gdm restarting, wish me luck :P
[01:55] <bjsnider> now i have to update the driver again. thanks a lot
[01:55] <Sarvatt> evil evil nvidia packaging lol
[01:55] <bjsnider> at least hardly anybody is using the 185
[01:55] <Sarvatt> someone was saying they hoped i used sed to replace the hundreds of references to 185 to 190 when i was doing it
[01:55] <Sarvatt> but i couldnt for that exact reason
[01:56] <bjsnider> but that's not what his problem was
[01:56] <bjsnider> i thinkt hat would leave an orphaned file behind but that's all
[01:58] <Sarvatt> there were other places it would have gotten caught up where it was alot worse than a dangling file getting left behind but i cant remember off the top of my head
[01:58] <bjsnider> well, the control file for one
[01:59] <bjsnider> his diversions file must have been unparseable or something
[02:00] <Sarvatt> i think he left the 2 lines above the first nvidia-185-glx line
[02:00] <Sarvatt> just my guess :D
[02:11] <yoasif> took a couple of restarts, but i am now running 195
[02:11] <yoasif> compiz seems noticably faster
[02:13] <yoasif> bjsnider: Sarvatt, the file works now! :)
[02:13] <bjsnider> it's amazing what newer code will do for you
[02:14] <yoasif> very much so
[02:14] <bjsnider> check something for me
[02:14] <yoasif> thanks for the help with the diversions... if it wasnt for that i wouldnt have been able to install the 195 drivr
[02:15] <bjsnider> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so.185.18.36
[02:15] <bjsnider> is that file on your system?
[02:15] <yoasif> bjsnider: no
[02:15] <bjsnider> hahaha
[02:15] <bjsnider> whatever
[02:15] <bjsnider> whatever dude
[02:15] <Sarvatt> lol
[02:15] <yoasif> i ran all the commands that you pastebin'd
[02:15] <yoasif> lol
[02:15] <yoasif> maybe one of the rms did it?
[02:16] <yoasif> removed it i mean
[02:16] <bjsnider> ok, i'm not updating the driver because that line doesn't need to be there
[02:16] <bjsnider> yoasif, no, the package itself removed it
[02:16] <yoasif> ah ok
[02:16] <yoasif> well, that was a crazy issue heh
[02:17] <bjsnider> i think your diversions file was corrupted and unparseable
[02:17] <yoasif> also, there is an issue with the nvidia drivers or something because it takes two restarts to activate the driver
[02:17] <yoasif> on my box anyway
[02:17] <bjsnider> so the postrm script couldn't do its work
[02:18] <yoasif> oh, i have one other REALLY nasty issue
[02:18] <yoasif> maybe you guys will have some ideas
[02:18] <Sarvatt> it probably deletes libglx.so.* in the preinst for the new driver, but i'm sure it'd leave the file dangling if someone removed 185 to switch to nouveau
[02:18] <bjsnider> lots of people have told me that it took two restarts to activate the new driver
[02:18] <yoasif> gdm sometimes lets me into my account without entering a password
[02:19] <yoasif> i think it goes something like this... logout, click my username, hit cancel, click username again, and im in my account
[02:19] <yoasif> (my account is set for auto login, but i don't think that is supposed to happen)
[02:19] <Sarvatt> yeah theres a bug with logins right now since about 12-22
[02:19] <yoasif> ok, well as long as it is known i guess
[02:19] <yoasif> i filed one but it got closed as invalid
[02:20] <Sarvatt> gnome livecd's dont even work :D
[02:20] <yoasif> but there wasnt much information i guess... probably should have been incomplete
[02:20] <yoasif> lol...
[02:22] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4
[02:22] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4-dev
[02:22] <bjsnider> version mismatch
[02:22] <bjsnider> sorry Sarvatt can't rebuild mplayer for lucid right now
[02:24] <Sarvatt> i have a feeling it wont build, was just about to look up the last time it was built in lucid
[02:25] <yoasif> bjsnider: so the vdpau ppa is safe to keep on?
[02:25] <bjsnider> sure is
[02:26] <yoasif> the new nvidia driver is actually helping my compiz effects a lot
[02:27] <bjsnider> compiz?
[02:27] <bjsnider> is that old thing still around?
[02:27] <Sarvatt> I know its your baby but realistically ya gotta expect there might be problems with the PPA drivers once tseliot updates nvidia in lucid :D
[02:27] <yoasif> but lucid had regressed in my effects speed over karmic
[02:27] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, i'll follow his updates
[02:27] <yoasif> bjsnider: what, are you using gnome shell?
[02:28] <bjsnider> yes i are
[02:28] <yoasif> haha
[02:28] <yoasif> yeah, from my experience it is nice
[02:28] <yoasif> is there a ppa with newer code?
[02:28]  * Sarvatt is using just plain mutter
[02:28] <Sarvatt> all i need is fast gl transparency :D
[02:28] <bjsnider> i wanted to create one, but i can't get the blasted gnome-shell to build. mutter will though
[02:29] <yoasif> Sarvatt: mutter is a wm?
[02:29] <yoasif> or is it like xcompmgr?
[02:34] <Sarvatt> yeah mutter is metacity with a clutter compositing engine instead of xrender metacity uses pretty much
[02:34] <yoasif> i like my expo wall too much :P
[02:34] <yoasif> main reason i switched away from openbox and came back to gnome :/
[02:38] <yoasif> interesting, i have mutter installed
[02:38] <yoasif> is mutter the compositing replacement for metacity?
[02:39] <bjsnider> that's about the size of it
[02:40] <bjsnider> metacity + clutter
[02:44] <Sarvatt> metacity can do compositing too but its has a slow xrender based compositing backend, ya can use mutter --replace to try it
[02:45] <Sarvatt> (try just mutter out I mean, metacity -c --replace would enable metacity compositing)
[02:46] <bjsnider> so you're just using mutter without gnome-shell?
[02:46] <bjsnider> wait, ha, you can't do that
[02:46] <bjsnider> i just remembered
[02:47] <yoasif> Sarvatt: im guessing it's really fast?
[02:47] <Sarvatt> depends what you mean fast :)
[02:48] <yoasif> faster than compiz i guess
[02:49] <Sarvatt> it slows down other 3D things the same as compiz does
[02:49] <Sarvatt> nah if anything its a bit slower
[02:49] <yoasif> ahh
[02:51] <Sarvatt> i just dont like compiz, cant go a week without it causing a problem when i do use it and this is alot less cpu intensive than metacity compositing :D
[02:51] <yoasif> ah i see
[02:53] <Sarvatt> the full gnome-shell is horrible on this netbook i'm on 99% of the time
[02:53] <bjsnider> it also has lots of stuff that's bling for its own sake
[02:56] <bjsnider> 99% cpu?
[02:57] <Sarvatt> meant i'm on a netbook 99% of the time, 8.9" screen :D
[02:57] <Sarvatt> the menus are horribly huge on this
[02:57] <bjsnider> horrible in what sense? slow?
[02:57] <Sarvatt> nah takes up way too much screen space
[02:58] <bjsnider> in overview mode?
[02:58] <Sarvatt> cant see enough to be useful in that overview mode either
[02:58] <Sarvatt> it shows like 3 items in each section
[02:58] <Sarvatt> i meant like the panel at the top and stuff
[02:59] <bjsnider> the panel is big?
[02:59] <Sarvatt> its like 3x as tall as my gnome-panel is
[02:59] <bjsnider> don't notice it here, but i'm not on a netbook
[02:59] <Sarvatt> yeah it looks fine on a normal screen but on this tiny 1024x600 one its too much
[03:00] <bjsnider> in overview, you can scroll-wheel the windows up in size
[03:00] <Sarvatt> the panel is like 80 pixels tall at the top
[03:00] <Sarvatt> maybe its just resizing that big because of font settings or something
[03:01] <bjsnider> dunno. you could go to their irc channel and ask
[03:07] <Sarvatt> i'm real happy with gnome-panel though, window-picker-applet and maximus make it nice on a tiny screen
[03:09] <Sarvatt> lets see if mplayer builds on lucid now, changed the nvidia-185-libvdpau-dev build-dep to libvdpau-dev and made it suggest libvdpau1. i dont think it's going to work right with the libxxf86vm-dev/x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev header change
[03:10] <bjsnider> libxvidcore is the problem
[03:11] <bjsnider> it should probably build-dep libvdpau1
[03:11] <bjsnider> although there was a debate about that between mario and a debian guy
[03:11] <bjsnider> it's quite an amusing read
[03:12] <bjsnider> should the driver demand libvdpau or should the player?
[03:14] <crimsun> demand is a bit strong
[03:15] <crimsun> it should probably Recommend it
[03:15] <bjsnider> i'm not getting pulled into this
[03:16] <crimsun> Policy is pretty clear, which is why I'm amused at the smoke n' mirrors
[03:17] <bjsnider> in my view, the graphics driver should pull in the library, so that the players can use it if it's there
[03:17] <bjsnider> and i don't know anything about the policy
[03:17] <bjsnider> and it sounds like a boring argument
[03:40] <Sarvatt> well it doesnt require libvdpau1 to use mplayer on non nvidia, I *guess* some people could possibly not want to waste the extra 100k having it forcibly installed with the nvidia driver but thats very non-intuitive for non-technical users who might want to use it and not know they should install that
[03:40] <Sarvatt> 100k in a 120mb package, oh darn :)
[03:42] <bjsnider> that's exactly what the argument between mario and the debian guy was centered on
[03:44] <bjsnider> of course mplayer should be built against the libvdpau headers
[03:44] <bjsnider> and you could argue that the library should then be installed with it
[03:50] <Sarvatt> the darn mplayer docs take ages to build and it does that first, kind of a pain in the butt for troubleshooting build errors :D
[03:52] <bjsnider> takes about 15-20 minutes total
[03:52] <Sarvatt> i'll have to dig through the lists, the arguement i saw was build related because it was trying to pull in headers that were already seperately packed into the mplayer a long time ago
[03:52] <bjsnider> was mario involved in it?
[03:54] <Sarvatt> nope
[03:57] <Sarvatt> the libxvidcore-dev things was fixed in the lucid source package already a few weeks before the one in nvidia-vdpau, guessing you based your svn checkout off karmic's debian/
[03:58] <bjsnider> not sure what you mean
[03:58] <bjsnider> it's a version mismatch
[03:58] <bjsnider> the dev package is a different version
[04:05] <Sarvatt> they aren't for me, must have worked all that out
[04:06] <bjsnider> perhaps you haven't updated or something
[04:06] <bjsnider> but i pinged the bot and it spit back different versions
[04:06] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4
[04:06] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4-dev
[04:09] <Sarvatt> ahh ok i'm blind
[04:10] <bjsnider> so the ppa build fails because the -dev package tries to pull in the main package but the version is different so splat...it fails
[04:11] <bjsnider> but why wasn't the dev package updated when the main package was?
[04:11] <bjsnider> that's strange
[04:12] <Sarvatt> it built fine in pbuilder
[04:13] <bjsnider> did you run a pbuilder update first?
[04:13] <bjsnider> you probably still have the older matching packages
[04:13] <Sarvatt> i just built the pbuilder environment on that machine
[04:14] <Sarvatt> it pulled in libxvidcore-dev 1.2.2, requirement in the mplayer deb is libxvidcore4 (>= 1.2.2), installed libxvidcore4 is 2:1.2.2+debian-0ubuntu1
[04:15] <bjsnider> so it pulled in a newer -dev package than the one in the ppa build system
[04:16] <bjsnider> wait
[04:17] <bjsnider> you pulled in libxvidcore-dev? not core4-dev?
[04:17] <Sarvatt> oh you did libxvidcore4 and libxvidcore4-dev there, i thought you did libxvidcore-dev vs libxvidcore4-dev
[04:17] <Sarvatt> yeah thats what the build-dep was changed to back in november in lucid
[04:17] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore-dev
[04:17] <bjsnider> oh. no probem. didn't know about that.
[04:17] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpeg4ip/+bug/486169
[04:20] <bjsnider> anything else i should know about?
[04:26] <Sarvatt> just a patch added relating to subtitles https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu12
[04:27] <Sarvatt> looks like thats the only one built since karmic, 1ubuntu11 must have failed because of the libxvidcore4-dev thing
[04:27] <bjsnider> the fontconfig patch?
[04:27] <bjsnider> i already have that
[04:27] <billybigrigger> hmm
[04:27] <billybigrigger> just noticed a calendar bug
[04:28] <Sarvatt> at least it builds fine against the header change unlike nvidia-settings, thats all i was worried about
[04:28] <billybigrigger> december 2009 shows the 27th (today) on sunday which is correct
[04:28] <billybigrigger> nevermind
[04:29] <Sarvatt> and with the libvdpau changes as well, and vdpau works fine on it
[04:29] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, the header change doesn't have anything to do with nvidia-settings
[04:31] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, what was that patch for nvidia-settings?
[04:31] <Sarvatt> mplayer has a build-dep on libxxf86vm-dev, if it needed that one header explicitly and didnt know about the changes after the split between proto/lib it could break like nvidia-settings did
[04:32] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=208926
[04:33] <bjsnider> well that package does exist in lucid
[04:34] <Sarvatt> what package?
[04:34] <bjsnider> libxxf86vm-dev'
[04:35] <Sarvatt> X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h was split into 2 seperate headers instead of all being in xf86vmode.h, if something needed something that was moved to the other header like nvidia-settings does it needs to check for it and build-dep on the proto
[04:37] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, what are they calling the patch in gentoo?
[04:39] <Sarvatt> wow, i *just* noticed nvidia-settings didnt build on edgers weeks ago, sheesh
[04:39] <Sarvatt> the success/fail icons arent on the screen on this tiny thing and i didnt scroll
[04:40] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289744
[04:44] <bjsnider> but this isn't an mplayer patch
[04:44] <bjsnider> i an include it in future nvidia-settings builds though
[05:17] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: would you mind if i just copied your nvidia-settings package over to xorg-edgers since binary copies from the older release seems to work fine? only reason I'm even putting nvidia in there is because I'm about to bump the video abi next time xserver is updated
[05:18] <bjsnider> would i mind? this is gnu/linux we go there
[05:18] <bjsnider> you can do whatever you want
[05:18] <bjsnider> but you have to give me an mplayer patch
[05:18] <Sarvatt> there is no mplayer patch, I was building it to make sure it wouldnt need a patch
[05:19] <Sarvatt> :D
[05:19] <bjsnider> i c
[05:19] <bjsnider> well, the 195 is the latest nvidia-settings but it has a showstopper that i reported to the nvidia corporation
[05:19] <Sarvatt> thanks, I'm asking because sometimes people REALLY dont know what they are doing and copy packages out of edgers building against different things but the version still has my name in it so I get thrown off on bug reports
[05:20] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, actually now that i think of it
[05:20] <bjsnider> you probably should think twice about it
[05:20] <bjsnider> i sort of synced it to upstream debian
[05:21] <bjsnider> but i didn't use their rules file because it's based on debleper 7.3 or something
[05:21] <bjsnider> so my package is kind of a hybrid between old and new
[05:21] <bjsnider> and i'm not 100% sure it's stable
[05:21] <bjsnider> pretty sure though
[05:22] <Sarvatt> yeah I see, I was going to drop the whole -190 thing and make it plain nvidia-settings but getting rid of the dpatch junk is great :D i dont care as long as it works and nvidia-settings 180 has had a nasty xv contrast range bug since 185 was put in ubuntu
[05:22] <Sarvatt> it works fine, i'm using it on my nvidia lappy because i needed an out from broken nouveau the other day :D
[05:22] <bjsnider> i did drop the -190 thing, didn't i?
[05:22] <Sarvatt> nope, had to manually install nvidia-settings-190
[05:23] <bjsnider> oh. a new version is in the testing-ppa
[05:24] <bjsnider> i just haven't copied it over yet
[05:24] <bjsnider> https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/testing-ppa
[05:24] <bjsnider> but it built fine
[05:25] <bjsnider> your netbook has an atom chip?
[05:26] <Sarvatt> yeah acer aspire one aoa150
[05:26] <bjsnider> you'd definitely benefit from the very latest vdpau code
[05:26] <Sarvatt> i'd be eyeing an ion one if this one didnt have 11 hours battery life
[05:27] <Sarvatt> oh nah this has intel graphics
[05:27] <Sarvatt> not trying to watch videos on a 9" screen either
[05:29] <Sarvatt> i've got other laptops with nvidia and ati for testing things on, i dont use linux on my HTPC because vdpau *really* sucks compared to DXVA2
[05:29] <Sarvatt> got 4TB of subtitled videos, and vdpau doesnt work with subtitles so yeah
[05:30] <bjsnider> vdpau works with subs
[05:30] <bjsnider> even works with ssa
[05:33] <Sarvatt> whoa, really? going to habe to look into that
[05:34] <bjsnider> you're right that it iddn't at first though
[05:34] <bjsnider> but they fixed that a long time ago now
[05:34] <bjsnider> just fire up smplayer and try out ssa subs and you'll see for yourself
[07:38] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: Hmm, subtitles are *almost* ok using the lucid mplayer I just rebuilt, but its not working at all with yours
[07:48] <Sarvatt> funny that pulseaudio uses 3x the cpu as mplayer playing back this bluray though :)
[09:24] <BUGabundo_work> bom dia
[13:05] <BUGabundo_work> can anyone point me in the direction of Ubuntu website webadmins?
[13:05] <BUGabundo_work> page aint loading in android browser
[13:07] <Pici> BUGabundo_work: You could file a bug here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> well not sure its a bug
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> need to debug it 1st
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> but thanks for the link Pici
[13:08] <BUGabundo_work> inicially though it was the new android browser... but all other tested SSL pages works
[14:48] <CosmiChaos> hello, how to remove the annoying notify-osd debug-grid (orange) from lucid alpha?
[15:22] <yofel> CosmiChaos: that is possible, lemme look up hos
[15:22] <yofel> *how
[15:23] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, subtitles _almost_ work? they've worked perfectly for a ong time. i'm not sure why they aren't working for you, but what kind of files are you trying to play?
[15:23] <Sarvatt> darn, didnt I pastebin the info after I said that? i'm not near that machine now and in the middle of bisecting a libdrm problem
[15:24] <Sarvatt> was a 4Mb h264 high profile L4 video, ass subtitles, mkv container aac audio, 1080p
[15:25] <Sarvatt> had to bump my cpu speed up, it was stuttering with ondemand
[15:25] <bjsnider> ondemand?
[15:25] <Sarvatt> with your 1207 one I couldnt even get it to display anything though
[15:25] <Sarvatt> darn gotta run, i'll talk to ya later
[15:25] <bjsnider> i rebuilt mplayer last night as we were talking and copied it over this morning
[15:26] <yofel> CosmiChaos: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/482661/comments/4
[15:43] <BUGabundo_work> hey bjsnider
[15:50] <om26er_> !test
[16:04] <bjsnider> BUGabundo_work, hey yo
[17:24] <BUGabundo_work> [OT] oh joy http://ubunlog.com.ar/blog/tras-una-pelea-richard-stallman-detenido-en-el-aeropuerto-de-miami/
[17:41] <genii> I have an ExpressCard 34 eSATA adapter which doesn't get detected unless it's in at boot time. Is there some hotplug module (like the old pciehp ) which could force detection?
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> wow.. even the experts have problems sometimes :P
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> (yes thats you genii :) )
[17:42]  * genii slides shadeslayer_ a coffee
[17:42]  * shadeslayer_ needed one
[17:43] <shadeslayer_> exams... :P
[17:49] <shadeslayer_> Shura: sorry for that,bad tab complete
[20:24] <promet> Hello, I was adding some custom scripts to my /etc/init.d/ dir, and I think I might have messed sumthin up. Some of my other scripts now no longer start automatically. I've checked my rc.* dirs, and can't find anything obviously out of whack. I think this has also prevents my virtual tty's from launching, as they are unresponsive when I try and access them via "ctrl-alt-F1 TO f6"
[20:24] <promet> Any Thoughts?
[20:26] <promet> :-D
[20:26] <yofel> hm.. checked that all symlinks in rc2.d are ok? do you still know which scripts you added?
[20:31] <promet> Just one actually, it was one I've written to autostart a Shoutcast server. I used the "update-rc.d defaults" command
[20:31] <promet> I haven't actually checked rc2.d links will do that now though, thanks for the feedback.
[20:32] <yofel> well, I don't know too much about sysvinit, especially since we now have a upstart/sysvinit mix
[20:32] <yofel> promet: why don't you convert it to an  upstart script?
[20:33] <promet> I don't have any experience with upstart, but I'm not against getting into it. Is it installed in Karmic, or do I have to fetch it? Does it coexist with init.d or "replace" it?
[20:34] <yofel> promet: it's supposed to replace it, we're in the middle of that process, the new scripts are in /etc/init
[20:34] <yofel> !upstart
[20:35] <yofel> promet: and it's used by default on karmic and lucid
[20:35] <promet> Thanks, I will check that out.
[20:36] <promet> I appreciate all of your input. Thanks!
[20:38] <promet> Just a clarification though, the /etc/init.d/ directory is a part of the "system-v init" system?
[20:38] <yofel> promet: yes, the upstart scripts are being kept in /etc/init/
[20:38] <promet> Cool, thx.
[20:40] <elops> how do i update my menu.lst for an updated kernel version?
[20:40] <elops> is there a way i can get apt-get to just do that once again?
[20:40] <yofel> elops: 'sudo update-grub' should do that for you
[20:41] <yofel> elops: any reason why you're using grub-legacy?
[20:44] <DasEi> elops: if you install a kernel via apt or the update-functions, they get there automated
[20:44] <elops> i had added a param into the menu.lst, which it detected, and gave me a curses page to choose an option
[20:44] <elops> looks like it left the old menu.lst there
[20:44] <elops> ?
[20:45] <yofel> elops: err...  how did you edit your menu.lst? If  you edit the kernel boot lines by hand you'll get a curses interface and the default is 'do nothing'
[20:45] <elops> update-grub completed, but didnt change the file - i kept a copy before it, and diffed them
[20:46] <yofel> elops: can you pastebin your menu.lst?
[20:48] <elops> yes
[20:48] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729858
[20:49] <yofel> ok, remembered something
[20:49] <elops> ive only pasted the end of it, cause the rest is all comments
[20:49] <elops> i guess it did the do-nothing - how do i now get it to do what it was supposed to do?
[20:49] <elops> the change i had originally done to it was the maxcpus=1
[20:49] <yofel> first, rename your menu.lst to menu.lst.bak or something like that, then run update-grub to get a blank one
[20:50] <yofel> elops: then, can you please paste the WHOLE file again? I need a part of the comments and I don't have a menu.lst myself
[20:53] <yofel> elops: ping?
[20:54] <elops> paste the new one, or the old one?
[20:54] <yofel> elops: doesn't matter, I need the comments
[20:58] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729869
[20:59] <sebsebseb> hi
[21:00] <promet> Wow, this whole "Upstart" thing is a major change, I'm glad you guys told me about that, lol!
[21:00] <elops> ive diffed the newly-created one and the existing - the only changes seem to be in the display strings 'ubuntu 8.04.2' to 'ubuntu 8.04.3'
[21:00] <elops> and of course, removed my maxcpus=1 option
[21:00] <promet> I have been floundering around without that information for days now.
[21:01] <promet> What is the method by which your average user is supposed to become aware of that sort of Dist-change? There ought to be a newsletter or soemthing...
[21:01] <elops> yofel ?
[21:02] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729876
[21:02] <promet> Qouth the newsletter: "Oh, and btw, your entire startup script infrastructure is changing in Karmic; get hip quick!"
[21:02] <yofel> elops: on line 89 you'll see a defoptions= option, please put your maxcpus=1 there
[21:02] <yofel> elops: and since you seem to be running hardy, let's move this to #ubuntu
[21:02] <elops> ok sir
[21:03] <promet> Thanks again, am now rebooting to test out upstart script changes, later!
[21:03] <elops> this is the diff of the newly-created menu.lst (by update-grub) vs the old one
[21:09] <acidwash> hi
[21:10] <acidwash> which future release of ubutnu will be i686 optimized ?
[21:10] <acidwash> or
[21:11] <acidwash> is there any ongoing project to launch i686 optimized version of release ? thx
[21:12] <crimsun> acidwash: there are no current plans, but you can rebuild all the sources packages yourself.
[21:12] <penguin42> acidwash: The problem is if you do that do you optimise for 686, AMD, Core2, i7 or what?
[21:13] <acidwash> crimsun: i am trying but it seems like it takes for ever
[21:13] <penguin42> acidwash: You'll get most benefit by recompiling a handful of libraries and the kerne;
[21:13] <acidwash> using apt-build to do such
[21:13] <crimsun> acidwash: several years ago, a handful of devs profiled the kernel, libc, openssl, etc., and established that only for a handful of programs is there any discernable speed-up.
[21:14] <acidwash> hmm
[21:14] <penguin42> crimsun: I do wonder if that's as true these days; especially with things like ss4.2 having ops for string handling
[21:14] <acidwash> yeah i read that, i386 is reliable
[21:15] <crimsun> penguin42: I would venture it isn't too far off the mark, but we certainly could revisit it if an enterprising community member drives it.
[21:16] <penguin42> crimsun: Hehe, I probably don't have the time at the moment; but my guess is sooner or later it might get worth it; although I know some of the critical kernel routines (e.g. RAID etc) already do special stuff if they have it
[21:17] <acidwash> crimsun: will apt-build world accomplish my concern
[21:17] <crimsun> acidwash: it will probably get you some ways toward it
[21:17] <penguin42> acidwash: I really wouldn't rebuild the whole let - I mean do you really care about the performance of something boring like the hibernate/indicator applet?
[21:18] <penguin42> ^let^lot
[21:18] <acidwash> penguin42: well no harm in trying so ?
[21:19] <maxb> other than taking so long that the entire exercise becomes impractical
[21:19] <penguin42> acidwash: Well ok if you can wait that long for it to rebuild, but my point is you'll get most of the benefit by some of the main libs and prog you use a lot
[21:19] <acidwash> oh ok
[21:19] <foreverubun2> Is Lucid stable-ish? ie not crashing whenever you use the keyboard
[21:19] <acidwash> penguin42: how about optimizing the base system ? my kernel is already i 686
[21:20] <penguin42> acidwash: Yeh do the base stuff and you'll get a long way
[21:20] <acidwash> penguin42: and base packages/modules/libs ... etc are ?
[21:21] <yoasif> this is all meaningless if you are running a 64bit os right?
[21:22] <acidwash> nop
[21:22] <acidwash> its 32
[21:23] <maxb> foreverubun2: Depends how you define '-ish'
[21:23] <maxb> Seems to be OK for me, but only after I recompiled the i915 kernel module using the version from karmic, because lucid's was breaking for me
[21:24] <maxb> i.e. it's not critically broken, but don't expect it to be pain free either
[21:29] <penguin42> yoasif: ish, the 586-686 difference yes, but for example the difference between optimising for an original Opteron and a current opteron or an i7 may be useful - or might not be
[21:51] <Mic__hael> can anyone confirm the empathy regression in bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/451568? I just added a note to confirm that I am still seeing this in Lucid
[22:22] <BUGabundo> boas ninos
[22:22] <syn-ack> sup BUGabundo
[22:23] <BUGabundo> nothing much
[22:23] <acidwash> guten mortgen
[22:23] <syn-ack> werd
[22:26] <acidwash> what happen to ubuntu mirrors and archive. i get max 10 to 12 kbb dl
[22:26] <bjsnider> i'm banging them heavy for a personal project. hope you don't mind
[22:27] <acidwash> i use to get alot more
[22:27] <acidwash> *used
[22:28] <acidwash> bahhh
[22:28] <acidwash> it dropped to 4 bps
[22:28] <acidwash> *kbps
[22:30] <acidwash> bjsnider: how much dl speed u get ?
[22:31] <bjsnider> all of it
[22:31] <acidwash> u greedy
[22:31] <acidwash> leave some for me p
[22:31] <bjsnider> i'm trying to rebuild all qt packages to use gtk instead
[22:31] <bjsnider> thus stamping out the scourge that is kde forever
[22:32] <penguin42> bjsnider: That's erm interesting
[22:32] <yofel> o.O
[22:32] <yofel> can't you just set qt to use the gtk theme? or what's the problem?
[22:32] <bjsnider> no, qt must not exist anymore
[22:35] <syn-ack> QT and KDE really is evil
[22:35] <acidwash> i like gnome p
[22:35]  * kinja-sheep is away: Dogpark!
[22:43]  * DanaG has actually switched to kde now.
[22:43]  * ToxinPowe ToxinPowe too
[22:43] <ToxinPowe> ups xD
[22:44] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, I find gtk just too cartooney for myn taste
[22:44] <yofel> I have nothing against kde, but I got increasingly annoyed with gnome
[22:44] <yofel> and kde is really nice since 4.3, and 4.4 is great
[22:45] <acidwash> so is gnome
[22:45] <BluesKaj> the panel at the top of the screen is annoying too
[22:45] <yofel> I don't say gnome is bad, it's nice, I just like kde better
[22:45] <ToxinPowe> KDE 4.4 is so nice... even for gnome users, like me ;P
[22:45] <acidwash> kde is buggy
[22:46] <bjsnider> osx has a top panel. windows has a bottom panel
[22:46] <bjsnider> kde is more like windows
[22:46] <yofel> BluesKaj: haha, i actually have my kde panel at the top ^^
[22:46] <BluesKaj> yofel, well to each his own :p
[22:47] <Tscheesy> KDE has an OSX-like Panel for the Netbook-Version ;)
[22:47] <BluesKaj> daughters OSX has bottom panel
[22:50] <ToxinPowe> don't stop the flame, I would like read another GNOME vs KDE xd
[22:50] <acidwash> gnome is rock solid
[22:51] <ToxinPowe> true
[22:51] <Tscheesy> KDE-Users are just Happy with theire System - they don't need to flame
[22:51] <yofel> as are gnome users
[22:52] <ToxinPowe> :o
[22:52] <Tscheesy> so then - where just fine ;)
[22:52] <yofel> I had crashes in gnome as I had them in kde
[22:52] <Tscheesy> *we are
[22:52] <yofel> which one has more bugs is something I don't want to judge
[22:53] <ToxinPowe> what do you think about GNOME future?
[22:53] <acidwash> CHROME p
[22:53] <yofel> dunno, I have to admit that have never ever tried gnome-shell since it came after I switched to kde
[22:59] <ToxinPowe> I tried gnome-shell and I don't like, we'll see
[23:02] <bjsnider> probably everybody will eventually be using gnome-shell
[23:04] <ToxinPowe> why?
[23:07] <BUGabundo> 'cause that's the way Gnome is ehading
[23:07] <BUGabundo> *heading
[23:07]  * penguin42 admits to not liking the general drag of having to follow the crowd; there are things I really don't like and are now hard to change within either of gnome or kde
[23:09] <bjsnider> gnome-shell makes it easier for the user to interact with the desktop without sacrificing screen real estate
[23:09] <Tscheesy> penguin42:  that's the way it is under Linux - otherways - not updating for a longer Period leaves your System in a unusable state
[23:10] <penguin42> Tscheesy: And as I say, I really don't like it - it used to be that gnome/kde were quite tunable so if you didn't like something you could change it
[23:10] <Tscheesy> one can't stop development ;)
[23:11] <penguin42> Tscheesy: I'm just not sure it's better
[23:12] <Tscheesy> you can use Debian stable - but still this one will update sooner or later
[23:12] <penguin42> Tscheesy: I know what I can do, I think you're missing my point
[23:12] <Tscheesy> it's too hard to do all the security backports
[23:18] <syn-ack> I liked KDE when it was still in the 3.5x series... I just can't stand KDE 4 since it's slow, Bloated, and like I think it was Tscheesy it doesnt seem as "Tweakable"
[23:18] <syn-ack> And yes, I've seen the mockups of Gnome 3 and I don't like that either. :/
[23:18] <bjsnider> why did you ike kde 3.5?
[23:19] <syn-ack> It was faster, and imo more tightly integrated
[23:19] <syn-ack> you didnt have all this BS with their widgets and stuff like you do now
[23:19] <syn-ack> again, thats just my personal opinion, not trying to flame
[23:20] <bjsnider> of course it's your personal opinion
[23:20] <Tscheesy> syn-ack: SC4.4Beta2 is a big step in performance i think - for Tweaks the GUI's are missing atm
[23:20] <syn-ack> Tscheesy: hrm
[23:21] <syn-ack> and I dont know what it is but I never really liked Kubuntu... it didnt seem quite as "refined" as Ubuntu... and I can't put my finger on it
[23:22] <bjsnider> kde is ok in mandr*whateveritscallednow
[23:22] <syn-ack> yeah, I didn't mind it in Gentoo either
[23:22] <Tscheesy> syn-ack: take a look at the KNE when 10.04 is published ;)
[23:22] <syn-ack> heh
[23:23] <syn-ack> bjsnider: Then again, I was using KDE 3.5 in Gentoo as well but that really was so many years ago
[23:24] <bjsnider> i think people typically come to kde from windows because the gui is similar, but then move to gnome as they get more experienced and don't want kde's millions of useless options and lengthy explanations of everything
[23:25] <bjsnider> that was the case with me, in any event
[23:25] <syn-ack> meh
[23:26] <syn-ack> When I started using linux, It was Gnome 1.x anyway. :P
[23:26] <Tscheesy> bjsnider: i started with Gnome ..then Mandrike ended with Kubuntu :)
[23:26] <syn-ack> God, I've been using this for far too long
[23:26] <penguin42> When I started using linux it was fvwm!
[23:26] <syn-ack> penguin42: hah
[23:26] <syn-ack> Hell, I remember using Sawfish as my WM in Gnome
[23:26] <ToxinPowe> fvwm, wmaker, icewm... yeah xD
[23:26] <penguin42> (although when I started using Unix it was a text terminal)
[23:28] <syn-ack> Then from there I moved on to CDE for a little bit and I actually liked that. :P
[23:28] <syn-ack> Its just a shame that CDE isnt open
[23:29] <penguin42> cde on linux? You sick and twisted man
[23:30] <crimsun> people do move between KDE and GNOME fairly fluidly, too
[23:30] <syn-ack> penguin42: hahahaha
[23:30] <syn-ack> Red Hat FTW! :P
[23:31] <penguin42> crimsun: Yeh I bounced between them over the years; never really got on with KDE4 though
[23:32] <crimsun> KDE 4.3.x is quite nice; 4.4 SC is looking quite good, too
[23:33] <crimsun> ultimately for me it doesn't matter; I pretty much only use terminal emulators, tmux/byobu, etc.
[23:34] <ToxinPowe> excuse me, Are you from the past??? /IT CROWD off
[23:34] <ToxinPowe> xD
[23:35] <penguin42> crimsun: I don't know if they've changed it more recently; but what got me on 4.x was them making the desktop more dynamic but restricted - i.e. it was now harder just to put arbitrary files and links and stuff on the background - that's been something you've been able to do for a long long time now
[23:35] <crimsun> ToxinPowe: I don't know if I'd identify with Moss offhand, though
[23:35] <ToxinPowe> =)
[23:39] <DanaG> bad punctuation: "wan't new software..."?
[23:40] <DanaG> =P
[23:40] <alex_mayorga> is nv still broken?
[23:55] <bjsnider> crimsun, so for you, the linux gui desktop achieved everything it ever needed in the mid-1990s. is that accurate?
[23:58] <BUGabundo> lolol
[23:58] <BUGabundo> all but be rich