[19:01] <highvoltage> right! who's present for the Edubuntu meeting?
[19:02] <alkisg> o/
[19:02]  * Lns raises hand enthusiastically
[19:04] <highvoltage> stgraber: meetingreminderping
[19:04] <highvoltage> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[19:05] <highvoltage> ok I'll start talking about our bug day
[19:06] <highvoltage> it's scheduled for 12 January
[19:06] <highvoltage> Ubuntu Alpha 2 is scheduled for 14 January
[19:07] <highvoltage> so it's a good time to check the daily builds so that we can have an alpha release
[19:07]  * stgraber waves
[19:07] <stgraber> sorry a customer just called :)
[19:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock suggested that we look at all the edubuntu specific packages and make a drop list
[19:08] <highvoltage> that would be a list of software that's really buggy or not in a good state that we would look at removing or fixing
[19:09] <highvoltage> not sure if we should do that before the bug day instead
[19:09] <Lns> if we cut out packages we don't want to find bugs with...might be a good idea to do that beforehand :)
[19:10] <highvoltage> yep, I guess we could have a wiki page where people make suggestions for such packages and link to the bug reports
[19:10] <highvoltage> then it would be easier to make decisions
[19:10] <stgraber> +1
[19:10] <Lns> +1
[19:11] <alkisg> +1, and maybe we can make the final decisions on the bug day?
[19:11] <highvoltage> yep
[19:11] <Lns> do we have access to popcon for these packages to gauge how much they're being used?
[19:11] <highvoltage> yep, that sounds good
[19:11] <alkisg> The popcon score is in installed in any ubuntu installation, so I think we can check it locally...
[19:12] <highvoltage> shall we talk about gpaint vs kolorpaint?
[19:13] <alkisg> I think sbalneav also wants to speak in favor of kolourpaint, so maybe we should wait until he's here? :D
[19:13] <highvoltage> I just installed both and they seem to be pretty similar in nature, but aparently gpaint has lots of bugs and isn't maintained anymore?
[19:14] <alkisg> Yes, and also it has many, many less features than kolourpaint
[19:14] <Lns> what about tuxpaint?
[19:14] <alkisg> Tuxpaint is good, but it isn't a "classical" drawing program
[19:14] <Lns> gotcha
[19:15] <alkisg> E.g. I use both tuxpaint and kolourpaint in the same classroom, for different lessons
[19:15] <Lns> too bad there's no way to just scale down gimp features to create a simple editor
[19:15] <sbalneav> Sorry, was late back from lunch
[19:16] <alkisg> Yeah a simplified gimp would be perfect for the job
[19:16] <highvoltage> personally I don't have any strong feelings about shipping a kde program as a default paint program. we're shipping the kde libraries anyway
[19:16] <highvoltage> stgraber: any thoughts?
[19:16] <stgraber> we have kdeedu already so having one more kde software is fine
[19:17] <stgraber> it'd be an issue if we were on a CD and needed to add kdelibs to the CD but it's not our case so I have nothing against it
[19:17] <highvoltage> we don't really seem to have any arguement against replacing gpaint with kolourpaint4, so let's make it so
[19:18] <sbalneav> +1
[19:18] <alkisg> +1!!!
[19:18] <highvoltage> ok cool, done.
[19:19] <highvoltage> sbalneav: what's happening in sabayon world?
[19:19] <stgraber> just need someone to give me a patch for edubuntu-meta and the seeds :)
[19:19] <sbalneav> Sabayon works great!
[19:19] <sbalneav> gksu is borken :(
[19:19] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'll get it to you tonight, assuming it's as simple as I think it is :)
[19:20] <sbalneav> I'll have to fix it tonight.
[19:20] <stgraber> highvoltage: should be relatively simple
[19:20] <sbalneav> yesterday, with stgraber's help to fix my bad naming, sabayon 2.29.5-rc1 made it into lucid
[19:21] <sbalneav> anyone put any thought into bugs that bug them for bug day... bug
[19:21] <highvoltage> sbalneav: excellent
[19:22] <highvoltage> I put together the Netbook Lucid spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Specifications/LucidNetbookOption
[19:23] <sbalneav> Where's screem at? Have we dropped that entirely?
[19:23] <highvoltage> not particularly creative but the gist of it is there
[19:23] <sbalneav> highvoltage: are we talking about an install option from the dvd? Edubuntu netbook?
[19:23] <highvoltage> sbalneav: yes
[19:24] <highvoltage> sbalneav: so it won't be a seperate installation disc or anything
[19:24] <sbalneav> cool, that'll be nice.  I know trask will like that for his open1to1 project.
[19:25] <highvoltage> haven't spoken to him in a while :)
[19:25] <sbalneav> He's doing some stuff with netbooks and edubuntu
[19:26] <highvoltage> cool
[19:26] <highvoltage> we should interview him some time
[19:26] <sbalneav> Since I'll be heading up the bug day, I'll post something to edubuntu-dev and -user
[19:26] <highvoltage> I think we should actually interview users and feature them on the website
[19:26]  * alkisg tried the current edubuntu daily build, and the autologin is broken on the installer, so one has to create a new user from the console to be able to login and get on with the installation... it should be fixed for people to try the daily builds before the bug day :)
[19:27] <highvoltage> I've been looking at other drupal themes yesterday so that we can replace that broken one we have currently
[19:27] <sbalneav> Who should fix that login bug?  stgraber, have you looked at the daily build scripts?
[19:28] <alkisg> I don't know if it's edubuntu-specific, but Lucid alpha didn't have it.
[19:28] <stgraber> not yet, though I'm not sure we have anything custom there, is that only Edubuntu-related or is it also broken for current Ubuntu daily ?
[19:28] <alkisg> My bandwidth isn't good enough to try 2 dailys at the same day :D
[19:29] <highvoltage> my bandwidth is fast enough it's just a pity it costs me around US$15 to download each iso :/
[19:30] <alkisg> Ouch
[19:30] <highvoltage> actually I think I could get one of the universities to mirror it for me
[19:30] <highvoltage> stgraber: you have an Ubuntu Drupal theme that works well don't you?
[19:31] <stgraber> highvoltage: yep, the one on ubuntu.com and brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[19:31] <highvoltage> I'm kind of undecided whether we should stick to something that looks very ubuntu'y again or do something more creative and different
[19:31] <highvoltage> xubuntu.org broke away from the rest
[19:32] <sbalneav> For the bugsquad:
[19:32] <sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[19:32] <highvoltage> I guess it would be easiest starting from the ubuntu'y theme
[19:32] <highvoltage> stgraber: where can I get that drupal theme?
[19:32] <sbalneav> how do we update the package list?  There's probably some things that should be added/dropped
[19:32] <stgraber> highvoltage: there's one in the ubuntu-qa-website project and I believe some locos actually created a project for the official theme
[19:33] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok I'll look it up
[19:33] <stgraber> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme probably
[19:33] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I believe it's at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.lucid
[19:34] <stgraber> sbalneav: ^ feel free to propose patches to that branch and I'll review + push (as it's in ubuntu-core-dev)
[19:34] <Lns> The more we change, the more we support ourselves
[19:35] <sbalneav> Well, for instance, tcm's dead, so we should drop it.
[19:35] <sbalneav> ditch gpaint in favor of kolourpaint, etc.
[19:36] <sbalneav> Everybody pimped for bug day?
[19:36] <sbalneav> err
[19:36] <sbalneav> pumped
[19:36] <Lns> sbalneav, the current tcm is dead...the new TCM is building toward a new release, i'm talking with moldy right now and he's rewritten 90% of the code and we're meeting tomorrow to discuss short term goals
[19:36] <highvoltage> sbalneav: yeah I be pimpin'
[19:36] <sbalneav> Well, I suppose you could be pimped.
[19:36] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: sorry, I am just getting back to the computer -- what are you seeking to theme?
[19:36] <sbalneav> Lns: figure we'll have it for lucid?
[19:37] <Lns> sbalneav, that would be an awesome goal to meet...what's the deadline?
[19:37] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: fixing the edubuntu site, stgraber pointed me to where a better ubuntu base theme is available that we could use
[19:37] <sbalneav> Feb's feature freeze :(
[19:37] <moldy> hi
[19:37] <highvoltage> hi moldy
[19:38] <moldy> Lns just pointed me here
[19:38] <Lns> moldy, February is the feature-freeze for lucid...what is your opinion on tcm being ready at that point if we push forward from this point on?
[19:38] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: The next few weeks I'll be swamped, but after that ping me and I'll see if I can help (Drupal is what I do for a living anyway)
[19:38] <sbalneav> there a bzr or git branch of tcm-ng yet?
[19:38] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: what is the target date for the redesign?
[19:38] <moldy> Lns: it's sure not completely unrealistic
[19:39] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: no target date set, but the aim is well before Lucid is launched
[19:39] <Lns> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/tcm-ng is the project page
[19:39] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: but there's lots of work to be done, so when you're ready let me know
[19:39] <moldy> at least not if we limit ourselves to getting the more basic features polished and postpone work-intensive nice-to-have stuff until after lucid
[19:40] <Lns> sounds sane
[19:40] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: btw, nice seeing you here again :)
[19:40] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: np
[19:40] <moldy> sbalneav: the bzr branch on launchpad does not reflect the current state of the code though... i worken again in the last few days after a long break from tcm... that work has not been pushed yet
[19:41] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: are you suitably multitasking that I can pm you for some details?
[19:41] <moldy> sbalneav: so you might want to wait another few days before checking it out :)
[19:41] <sbalneav> That's fine.
[19:41] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: yep, just making changes to the seeds and taking notes and looking for a theme, I can handle another discussion just fine :)
[19:41] <nixternal> hola
[19:41] <HedgeMage> heh
[19:41] <HedgeMage> Salve, nixternal :)
[19:42] <highvoltage> Salut, nixternal
[19:42] <moldy> sbalneav: by the beginning of next week, updates should get to launchpad
[19:42] <sbalneav> If we had some basic functionality with tcm-ng, and a working sabayon & pessulus, management wise, we'd have a winner with Lucid.
[19:42]  * nixternal notes we need to put our meetings on the Fridge
[19:42] <moldy> sbalneav: what are the most important features for tcm, in your opinion?
[19:42] <nixternal> I have a little script that updates my meeting info presented in my screen bottom bar
[19:43] <sbalneav> moldy: the three questions that get asked of me all the time are:
[19:43] <sbalneav> 1) How can I see what processes are running from a thin client?
[19:43] <sbalneav> 2) How can I kill said processes (runaway firefox, etc)
[19:44] <sbalneav> 3) How do I look at the person's screen (vnc)
[19:44] <highvoltage> nixternal: screenshot please :)
[19:44] <Lns> sbalneav, 1 + 2 are already polished afaik, in addition to running new processes on client(s)
[19:44] <sbalneav> If you could ship something that did at least 1 & 2, that'd be a huge bonus
[19:44] <moldy> sbalneav: i see. 1) and 2) were basically supported by the traditional tcm, i think, and are still supported now.
[19:45] <highvoltage> sbalneav: #4 would probably be "how do I display a presentation or demo on all the displays?"
[19:45] <nixternal> http://nixternal.com/files/byobu.png  <- highvoltage
[19:45] <sbalneav> highvoltage: yeah, you see that less often, but that's one too.
[19:45] <Lns> a big one for me is being able to reboot/shutdown clients from a central workstation
[19:45] <sbalneav> sure.
[19:46] <sbalneav> the VNC one's a tough cookie to crack..
[19:46] <moldy> sbalneav: though it is per user, not per ltsp session... if the same user is logged in from a terminal client *and* by ssh or a local console, then you will see all his processes... i don't know of a clean way to change this.
[19:46] <sbalneav> moldy: that'd be fine.
[19:46] <moldy> i know josh has been looking at vnc support
[19:46] <stgraber> moldy: take the sshd process and then go through all of its children
[19:47] <sbalneav> moldy: did the post I pointed you at and the tips alkisg gave you solve the messaging issue?
[19:47] <moldy> sbalneav: basically yes, by teaching me the important environment vars
[19:47] <sbalneav> At this point, a working *something* would be better than a pie-in-the-sky *wait-til-post-lucid*
[19:48] <moldy> stgraber: good idea, if there is a way to differentiate the ltsp sshd process from other ssh processes of the same user
[19:48] <sbalneav> and worse case scenario, per our announcement, we can always provide updates with new functionality post-lucid in the edubuntu-dev ppa's
[19:48] <moldy> sbalneav: though i think in the current state, it only works with LDM_DIRECTX enabled
[19:49] <sbalneav> that'd be fine.  I'd wager better than 90% of the people run ltsp that way.
[19:49] <moldy> good. i agree, better to have something working for lucid and provide improvements via ppas than to have nothing.
[19:49] <sbalneav> Personally, my recommendation would be, focus on getting polish on what you've GOT over the next month, so we can get something in for lucid's release
[19:50] <sbalneav> yeah
[19:50] <Lns> +1
[19:50] <Lns> vnc has been a notorious pain to get going but hopefully after tomorrow we'll have a good plan of action to tackle that
[19:51] <sbalneav> then we can say, "Look, we've actually got some management tools this time around.  tcm-ng + sabayon + pessulus + a possibility of an ldap setup config = a huge lowering of the learning curve to set up an edubuntu lab
[19:52] <stgraber> sbalneav: we also have italc in the default install
[19:52] <highvoltage> btw, I notice the Drupal version on the Edubuntu site isn't as horribly outdated as I thought it was
[19:52] <moldy> stgraber: unfortunately, i know no way to decide which sshd process belongs to ltsp and which one does not
[19:52] <highvoltage> did anyone here happen to update it? :)
[19:52] <alkisg> +1 for italc
[19:52] <sbalneav> stgraber: I've been seeing a lot of "whaa, italc doesn't work" messages.  Is it working?
[19:52] <alkisg> sbalneav: that's mostly because of a bad wiki page :(
[19:53] <sbalneav> ah
[19:53] <stgraber> sbalneav: well on the few thousands thin clients we manage, it seems to do
[19:53] <stgraber> issue is that some people expect that full screen demo will work just fine with something VNC based and are surprised when it takes a lot of memory and bandwidth ;)
[19:54] <Lns> Personally I've seen a lot of weirdnesses in the gui for italc as well as overall stability (it just didn't work consistently)..it's been a while, however, so i don't know its current state
[19:54] <alkisg> It *does* have several bugs (e.g. I wasn't able to get broadcasting to not crash in my lab), but usually it's workable out of the box
[19:54] <stgraber> upstream is doing a full rewrite so it should drastically improve in the future
[19:55] <moldy> that's interesting
[19:56] <alkisg> It's also very good that it's cross platform. I do hope we see a 2.0 release in 2010....
[19:56] <Lns> tcm-ng on the other hand will have the advantage of being UI agnostic..moldy and yanqui have done a great job of separating back-end from front-end to make (alternate) interfaces easy to create
[19:57] <highvoltage> not that I want to cut this discussion short, but are there any other items for the meeting?
[19:58] <alkisg> I've made a script that can be used to share the edubuntu dvd over NFS, by just running it from a PC booted with that dvd. It should help in cases where edubuntu can't be installed because the PC doesn't have a DVD drive and doesn't support booting from usb. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-75
[19:59] <alkisg> ...and the script is here: http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-docs/livecd-netboot?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=livecd-netboot
[19:59] <Lns> nice alkisg =)
[19:59] <highvoltage> alkisg: cool
[20:00] <Lns> is that something that can be easily made portable for other dists?
[20:00] <highvoltage> I noticed that no one added their prefered meeting times to our doodle calender yet
[20:00] <alkisg> Sure, I've just hardcoded the path to the kernel (/casper/vmlinuz)
[20:00] <alkisg> Other than that it should be fairly portable.
[20:01] <highvoltage> is doodle something we actually want to use then or should we just decide the next week's meeting every week?
[20:02] <Lns> highvoltage, doodle url?
[20:03] <highvoltage> http://doodle.com/ntsueczcb565itih
[20:04] <highvoltage> the idea was that we fill in a month advance at a time and decide early on meeting times so that it can go onto the fridge, etc and that people can know well in advance when the next edubuntu meetings will take place
[20:06] <highvoltage> anyway, let's decide for next week's meeting so long?
[20:06] <highvoltage> Wednesday the 6th at 19:00 UTC again?
[20:06] <alkisg> Personally I've filled it up the first times, but I didn't see any "copy-paste" ability and I was bored to fill the same entries again and again... :(
[20:07] <sbalneav> Same bat-time, same bat-channel works for me.
[20:07] <highvoltage> it is a bit boring, but it only takes like, a minute to fill it in for an entire month :)
[20:07] <alkisg> +1
[20:07] <Lns> same bat-time works for me too
[20:07] <highvoltage> heh, ok
[20:07] <highvoltage> then it is so
[20:08] <Lns> so i'm assuming we're not doing fridays as a set day anymore
[20:08] <sbalneav> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R31ge09jaXw
[20:08] <highvoltage> Lns: we haven't for ages
[20:09] <highvoltage> Lns: we had complaints from some people that they can never attend fridays
[20:09] <highvoltage> Lns: doodle.com is working nicely for some ubuntu teams so we decided to try it out, but it doesn't seem all that popular with edubuntu folk :)
[20:09] <alkisg> I've never seen them on any meeting since, though :)
[20:10] <Lns> to me doodle.com is just another link i'm going to lose :)
[20:10] <highvoltage> the edubuntu doodle link is linked from the edubuntu meeting agenda page
[20:10] <highvoltage> and that is included in every meeting announcement
[20:10] <highvoltage> and meeting minutes that gets posted to the list
[20:10] <moldy> deadline "february" for lucid means what exactly? last day of january? ;)
[20:10] <Lns> oh ok
[20:11] <highvoltage> so you'll have to make a good effort if you really want to lose it :)
[20:11] <alkisg> moldy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[20:11] <moldy> alkisg: thanks
[20:11] <Lns> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda for agenda
[20:12] <highvoltage> Lns: yes, in the top section there's a link to doodle and the fridge
[20:12] <Lns> yep
[20:12] <moldy> i am very unfamiliar with the ubuntu processes... so if anyone wants to help us in getting tcm-ng in for lucid, that would be great :)
[20:13] <highvoltage> moldy: if it's in good shape and the packages are in the archive, then it shouldn't be much of an issue to have it included at all
[20:13] <Lns> Here's kind of the "master page" for TCM, has links to everything relevant: http://logicalnetworking.net/wiki/doku.php#projectthin_client_manager_tcm
[20:14] <alkisg> Btw, tcosmonitor is a similar app, moldy you might find some useful code in it.
[20:15] <highvoltage> ok, let's take this to #edubuntu
[20:15] <moldy> highvoltage: i assume we need an ubuntu dev to get the packages into the archive?
[20:15] <highvoltage> thanks for taking the time to be here everyone
[20:15] <alkisg> Thank you highvoltage, thanks all.
[20:15] <Lns> thanks highvoltage, et. all =)
[20:15] <Lns> er..al ;)
[20:15] <highvoltage> moldy: I'll answer in #edubuntu
[20:15] <highvoltage> thanks everyone!
[20:16] <highvoltage> *bong*
[20:16] <moldy> highvoltage: sure, thank you. thanks everyone.
[20:16] <stgraber> thanks