[03:14] is there an ical version of edubuntu meetings, events, etc? [03:16] btw, i was looking at webdev this aftenoon. sunbird has the option of caldev or ical. looking at wikipedia, ical is a subset or a way to code info from caldev. how do the tow interact? [03:17] did edubuntu have a meeting today. looking at the fridge, i don't see a listing [04:12] Ahmuck: [04:12] yes [05:14] Well, I found where it's dying in gksu anyway. [05:24] yeesh, code's crap, they're doing fgets without checking result codes. [05:30] That's about gksu? Geez, you should write your own OS while you're fixing things... :) [05:30] well, it's the fact that something's giving an error code that's causing the proble. [05:31] but gksu blindly barrels ahead. [05:31] I think I can fix it by providing a configure option, force it to fork a pty [05:31] building another package now. [05:31] Good morning btw. I got a question about bug handling. Suppose we want to fix this simple bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeedu/+bug/315909 [05:31] Ubuntu bug 315909 in kdeedu "Grammar error in Chapter 4 of the KTurtle tutorial." [Low,Confirmed] [05:32] That's clearly an upstream bug, but upstream doesn't know about it: https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=kturtle [05:32] So what do we do? We just forward it upstream? We file a bug in kde edu and include a patch? [05:33] Well, canonical's supposed to be forwarding patches upstream, however I've heard a lot of upstream devs complaining there's nothing flowing to them. [05:33] I'd say, lets come up with a patch for the bug, and make sure we forward it upstream manually. [05:33] that way we know they got it. [05:34] OK, so for each bug that is clearly an upstream bug, we come up with a patch, and manually file a bug upstream. Got it. :) [05:35] Well, that's what I do, unless the bug's in an ubuntu applied patch. [05:44] YEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA [05:45] \o/ [05:49] stgraber: you still awake at this ungodly hour? [05:49] So, here's what's wrong with gksu [05:50] Looks like there's been some change in sudo, or something, anyway, sudo's looking for an actual tty now for passwd input [05:50] so [05:50] libgksu needs to be compiled with [05:50] --enable-sudo-forkpty [06:37] sbalneav: yep [06:37] interesting [06:38] sbalneav: did you do a test build of it ? [06:39] sbalneav: would be interesting to have it in your PPA, then poke Michael Vogt (mvo) to see if he's anything against that change (as in, potential regression) [06:39] and if not, we'll just change it ;) [06:39] * stgraber looks at Debian to see if they made the change, if yes, then it's a simple packaging change merge ;) [06:41] hmm, nope, Debian has the same ... [06:43] oh, actually it seems like this used to exist as a patch in previous versions [06:43] then was made upstream but the flag hasn't been added to the configure [06:44] sbalneav: can you file a bug on LP about it and give me the bug number ? I'll see tomorrow if I feel like doing the change or I'll poke someone in the desktop team. [06:44] it's a bit late here to break libgksu :) [09:06] * ogra_ yawns [09:25] * alkisg hands a cup of coffee to ogra [09:28] :) [09:43] * alkisg wonders why "Try Edubuntu without any change to your computer" in the edubuntu installer is untraslated in *all* languages, while on launchpad it's translated... [09:43] talk to cjwatson, i guess he hasnt imported the translations into debian-installer [09:44] danke! [10:14] Is there any way to install edubuntu, and then switch to all the regular ubuntu themes, layouts, icons etc? === ogra_ is now known as ogra [13:44] stgraber: libgksu IS broken NOW compared to it's previous defaults [13:44] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgksu/+bug/501559 [13:44] Ubuntu bug 501559 in libgksu "libgksu fails to start many programs, fails with: assert g_str_has_prefix str != NULL" [High,Confirmed] [13:50] * highvoltage drinks an energy tablet [13:50] good morning everyone [13:50] or good afternoon if you're in my timezone :) [14:05] Good afternoon :) [14:06] Is there any way to install edubuntu, and then switch to all the regular ubuntu themes, layouts, icons etc? [14:09] alkisg, i did it by removing a few packages like edubuntu-artwork, if i remember well [14:10] and then for the icon themes and stuff u can simply change it in the preferences/themes [14:10] That's a per user change, how do I change the system defaults for that? [14:10] I tried update-alternatives --all but that didn't quite do it... [14:11] heh [14:11] alkisg, hmm i guess by removing the themes packages, not sure tho :-/ im just a regular joe user hehe [14:11] toogreen: heh, sure, thanks for the advice [14:11] alkisg: removing the theme packages should really do the trick [14:12] i came here to ask for help too actually [14:12] highvoltage: I'll try it again, I had some problems with the logging off/on with the daily live :) [14:12] toogreen: sure, shoot! [14:13] was just wondering if anyone knows if/when the issue with italc and remote shutdown/rebooting in Karmic will be fixed [14:13] toogreen: I sent a patch for it, did you try it? [14:13] hmm I'm not sure how to apply patches :-/ [14:13] (I also have updated packages for it in my ppa) [14:13] Are you using Karmic? [14:14] won't it be just released in a normal update? [14:14] yeah using Karmic [14:14] Well we'll have to convince stgraber to include it in his italc patches :) [14:14] I have two Linux labs in my school, one is still Jaunty, the other Karmic [14:14] ...so the best course there would be to try the patches (=install the debs from my ppa), and confirm that they work [14:15] Let me get you the links... [14:15] in the Jaunty lab, I fixed the issue by installing powermanagement package (or something like that) [14:15] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/italc/+bug/367960 [14:15] Ubuntu bug 367960 in italc ""power down" request fails on 9.04; logout instead" [Medium,Incomplete] [14:15] ok will try the PPA solution, thanks [14:15] Ah, I see you've commented there [14:15] yeah I did [14:16] Do post a reply if you verify that my patches work, it'll help in their inclusion in the ubuntu package [14:16] I thought the patches were more complicated tho [14:16] heheh [14:16] ok cool, will try [14:16] im at home now tho [14:16] only start working again on the 4th of Jan [14:16] will try then [14:16] What are you using? i386 or amd64? [14:16] i was just wondering about the status of this bug [14:16] i386 [14:17] Here are the .debs: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/+sourcepub/891138/+listing-archive-extra [14:17] This way you can download them manually if you don't want to include my ppa in your sources [14:19] ok that's cool, thanks a lot!! [14:20] It was rather annoying indeed to turn 30 computers off one by one everyday, heheh :-P [14:20] I'd say this is a killer feature of italc :-) [14:20] for lazy ppl like me [14:20] Sure I used that too, a lot [14:21] My main problem with iTalc is that on my last lab it crashed after just a few seconds of broadcasting :( [14:21] alkisg r u working in a school too? [14:21] In 3 other labs it was working fine, though... [14:22] Yup, I'm mostly a teacher [14:22] i have many issues with iTalc actually... I don't rely on it too much for demonstrating.. I use the projector/screen combo instead [14:22] * alkisg wishes he had a projector :( [14:22] it was too unstable in my case [14:22] i think the network is too slow or something [14:22] Do you have a full gigabit network? [14:22] I use iTalc mainly to send messages, take control, or lock the screen [14:23] I'm not sure actually, think so but the network setup is pretty messy in our school [14:23] Nah, it's not the network that's slow. VNC is the main problem, and iTalc makes it worse.. E.g. freenx works just fine. [14:23] i mainly teach, there are other ppl in charge of network etc [14:24] ok [14:24] Ah. I gotta do it all myself, no other tech persons around :) [14:24] where are you at? China here [14:25] I'm Canadian tho, but working/teaching in China [14:25] Greece... [14:25] ok [14:25] Just wondering, how widely spread Ubuntu is in schools over there? [14:26] It's not widespread yet. We're working on it :) [14:26] Yeah same here. In Shanghai as far as I know I'm one of the rare ones pushing Ubuntu/FOSS [14:26] Everywhere else is pirate Windows XP [14:27] and piracy is so widely common and accepted [14:27] Yeah same here... [14:27] it's hard to teach ppl and convince them to use FOSS... [14:27] But, 2 years ago a pilot program was started by the greek ministry of education. About 20 labs started using Ubuntu/LTSP, bug most of them abandoned it before the year was over. [14:27] toogreen: aparently very few people run legal copies of anything there [14:27] highvoltage, true... which is a shame and im trying to educate ppl around me, at least [14:28] toogreen: great [14:28] A few of us straggled to make it work like we wanted it, we wrote some manuals and scripts for customization, and now the user base is constantly increasing [14:29] highvoltage, one thing that saddens me a great deals is computer dealers all around, they do have systems that are windows-less... Like Dell machines for instances, but they put Windows XP pirate on them even before ppl buy them!! [14:29] so when you go shopping for computers in Shanghai, all computers without OS are already running Windows XP [14:30] except few exceptions but its mainly that [14:31] At the very beginning of EeePCs it was interesting, they left the original Xandros there... But talking to the salesmen they told me everybody was asking to replace it with WinXP [14:31] So they started just installing XP on demonstrators as well and completely disregarding Linux [14:32] anyways, its pretty sad [14:32] Even people who buy Macs in Shanghai, most of them ask the sales ppl if they can wipe out Mac OS and put XP instead!! [14:32] Not sure why Chinese ppl like XP so much.. heheh [14:33] toogreen: here's a good link against piracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponosov%27s_case [14:34] That teacher was convicted because he bought PCs with pirated windows on them [14:34] Since then he became a FLOSS advocate, and now Russia moved on to using open source... [14:36] alkisg, thanks for the link, I sure will show this to some people I know!!! [14:37] printing it out now... [14:40] alkisg: Why Sabayon would help you with your theming woes! [14:41] Morning all [14:41] reading scrollback [14:41] sbalneav: really? hmmm I hear that it has some severe gksu-related bugs, though... :P :D [14:43] [14:43] WHRAAAAAAAAAA HULK SMASH [14:43] [14:43] heh nice one alkisg [14:44] Fixed. Now I just have to convince someone with upload rights that fixing is isn't "breaking it this late in the cycle" [14:44] Late?! Only an alpha was out... [14:44] even tho' it's demonstrably broken now, and by fixing it, I restore previous functionality. [14:44] See stgraber's comment above :) [14:48] sbalneav: if you're talking about "it's a bit late here to break libgksu :)", I think stgraber meant that it was late in the day, i.e. midnight... [14:49] Ah, I assumed that meant "in the development cycle" :) [14:50] Anywho, hopefully I can convince someone (shouldn't necessarily be stgraber, btw.) that this is important. [14:58] sbalneav: shouldn't take much [15:03] Heh, only had one bite so far, and he wanted me to justify why upstream had made the change in the first place. :) [15:04] * sbalneav put on his Johnny Carson "Carnac the Magnificent" heagear, holds libgksu2-0 source to forhead [15:05] Wait, how many people here get that? [15:05] sbalneav: I get this for cnetworkmanager on my host: http://paste.ubuntu.com/349113/ [15:05] sbalneav: know what could be causing that? [15:06] sbalneav: it sounds like something north-americanish :) [15:07] That from my packages? [15:07] yep [15:07] one sec [15:13] How'd you get the error? [15:13] try a cnetworkmanager -d [15:16] still says the same [15:17] You install it on a karmic box? [15:17] I just installed it here on my karmic box, works fine. [15:19] sbalneav: yep [15:19] sbalneav: I'll look at it again a bit later and let you know if I get it running [15:19] well, the error indicates that something's not right with dbus [15:21] ls -l /etc/dbus-1/system.d/cnetworkmanager.conf [15:21] wait: [15:21] dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files [15:21] <|user|> hello [15:21] Did you uninstall networkmanager? [15:21] |user|: hello [15:22] <|user|> i have edubuntu on my asus eee900ha [15:22] <|user|> my wireles wont work [15:22] sbalneav: nope, should I? [15:22] sbalneav: well, I installed networkmanager just shortly before [15:23] sbalneav: ah, after a reboot it magically works [15:23] highvoltage: well, restarting the system might help [15:23] I suspect network manager isn't properly runnig yet [15:24] |user|: What kind of wireless is in that machine? I'm not familiar with that hardware [15:24] |user|: edubuntu 9.10? [15:25] <|user|> yes [15:25] <|user|> i dont know why [15:26] <|user|> i installed kde [15:26] <|user|> too [15:28] "anomalies" nice. [15:28] highvoltage: The error basically means that cnetworkmanager tried to talk to NetworkMangler, but there wasn't one registered with dbus. [15:29] How the heck did you NOT have networkmanager installed on Ubuntu? it's like freaking default for everything now. [15:30] sbalneav: this machine doesn't have an X server installed [15:30] sbalneav: it's a small server machine that I want to put on wi-fi [15:37] Well, you'll need networkmanager running properly in order to get cnetworkmanager to work. [16:22] alkisg: And here we have the primary problem with Ubuntu. [16:23] "What you want to do isn't right, but I don't have time to research how to fix the problem, or give you any suggestions on how to fix it, so things should just stay broken" [16:24] Right, I hate this kind of talk :( [16:26] I mean, I'd be more than happy to start identifying SDL applications, and filing bugs to make them dep on -pulseaudio [16:28] And now, he's ignoring us. [16:29] sbalneav: I tried that for 2-3 apps, no sugar [16:29] ...and I don't think it's a good solution either [16:30] Maybe a better solution would be on a higher level. E.g. Ubuntu wants pulse? Maybe ubuntu-desktop should depend on libsdl-pulse, and kubuntu on libsdl-alsa... [16:30] Maybe not, but it's better than "doing nothing" [16:30] That's an idea [16:30] Why not suggest that. [16:31] It needs searching to support this idea... maybe ubuntu-desktop is not the proper package, but some other one, lower on the hierarchy [16:31] Bah let's mention it, nothing to lose [16:31] I don't understand why it's not a dep for pulse, personally [16:32] Really, what you need is conditional deps :) [16:33] Right, and a better conffile system ;) [16:34] Could you write that for us? [16:34] I like your dummy packages idea. [16:34] that wouldn't be that hard. [16:37] Sure I could write that. That's the easy part. [16:38] The question is, who'd want that? :D [16:38] I don't think anyone's listening... ;) [16:38] dummy packages? [16:39] highvoltage: packaging problem. libsdl1.2debian depends on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio | libsdl1.2debian-all | libsdl1.2debian-alsa | libsdl1.2debian-esd | libsdl1.2debian-oss | libsdl1.2debian-nas [16:39] Ah sorry [16:39] alsa in front [16:39] So it breaks the sound (or even worse) in all packages that use SDL on Ubuntu [16:39] e.g. one of the many, many bug reports about this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/203158 [16:39] Ubuntu bug 203158 in libsdl1.2 "libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio must be installed as default by libsdl1.2debian" [Medium,Triaged] [16:40] So we're trying to propose a good way for libsdl to depend on pulse on ubuntu, but on alsa on kubuntu (as kubuntu doesn't use pulse by default) [16:42] I kind of like how we're willing to accept broken behaviour in the primary product, to make sure things work perfectly in the secondary product. [16:42] And here's where it will stall. [16:43] * alkisg guesses either ScottK uses Kubuntu, or he doesn't use any SDL based apps at all :D [16:44] If it wasn't for having good guys like ogra and stgraber around to champion issue for us, I'd have given up on ubuntu long ago [16:44] * sbalneav hugs ogra, stgraber [16:45] Well, yeah, none of the main ubuntu apps are sdl I think [16:47] They all universe packages? [16:47] !info tuxpaint [16:47] tuxpaint (source: tuxpaint): A paint program for young children. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.9.20-2ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 164 kB, installed size 396 kB [16:48] Nope [16:48] perfect. [16:48] LOL [16:49] Maybe we should start a riot outside of Mark's office :P [16:50] I already managed to affect some stuff [16:50] !info gstreamer0.10-sdl [16:50] gstreamer0.10-sdl (source: gst-plugins-bad0.10): GStreamer plugin for SDL output. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10.14-4ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 43 kB, installed size 104 kB [16:50] I complained to Jorge Castro about bug handling. [16:51] He's apparently got a "team" that's going to be scouring lunchpad for bugs filed that actally have patches attached [16:51] Yey! [16:51] apparently, they've got in excess of 1600 bugs that have patches attached, that no-ones looking at. [16:51] That'd solve *a lot* of problems... [16:53] I got that ball rolling when I whined and stamped my feet about the cups bug for hardy [16:54] which, BTW, still hasn't been fixed :) [16:54] * alkisg shrugs :( [16:54] !info libsdl1.2debian [16:54] libsdl1.2debian (source: libsdl1.2): Simple DirectMedia Layer. In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.13-4ubuntu4 (karmic), package size 21 kB, installed size 60 kB [16:55] I know it sounds like I've been a whiny little primadonna the last few weeks, but goldarnit, we're not going to get these issues fixed unless we make some noise about them. [17:14] ...and thus, the libsdl bug is again shoved... [17:17] I'd cut-n-paste the convo into the bug [17:18] I know, it's frustrating isn't it? Bottom line is, base ubuntu doesn't rely on any sdl apps, so.... [17:18] But it does. libsdl is installed by default in the live cd. [17:19] Right, but not the right one. [17:19] Yes, so if we put the correct one in the dependencies of ubuntu-desktop, it'll be fixed. [17:19] but none of the default ubuntu apps that I know of are sdl [17:19] Where's the problem in that? [17:19] You're preaching to the choir Brother Alkis! :) [17:19] * alkisg will try to see *how* libsdl gets in the live cd... [17:20] Amen, Glory Halleluia! [17:20] I don't see a problem with it AT ALL. [17:41] ah, right, we're dropping gimp too. [17:41] Race to the bottom. [17:42] I think we need to fix all those broken dependencies in edubuntu, and just ignore everything ubuntu does :P :D [17:43] I'm all for that, although I don't no how we'd do it. [17:43] We'd need our own complete apt archive. [17:44] Nope. We'd just make edubuntu-desktop depend on libsdl-pulse ;) [17:44] (we ship gimp anyways :D) [17:46] Ah, well, yeah, WE can do that for edubuntu-desktop, for sure. [18:19] Nailed it. :D [18:19] A conflicts: libsdl-alsa on the pulseaudio package should be a nice fix. Testing... [18:51] DID SOMETHING GET COMMITTED?!?!! [18:51] * sbalneav 's jaw drops in amazement [18:51] \o/ for alkisg [18:56] Hey wait who said anything about commits? [18:57] I just had an idea which seems acceptable to them, and I'll test it, and then they'll think about commiting it... :D [18:58] ah, jumped the gun :) [18:58] * alkisg uploaded a fixed pulseaudio package to his ppa, and downloaded the lucid daily cd. Hopefully now libsdl-pulse will be installed when I install tuxpaint.. fingers crossed.. [18:58] here's hoping [19:15] * sbalneav waits with bated breath. [19:15] Man, I should quit eating fish for lunch. [19:26] nice guys =) That's been a sore for some time (libsdl-alsa screwing w/tux4kids apps) [19:41] All your thanks goes to alkisg, he's driving that particular bus. [19:41] And quite expertly too. [19:49] * alkisg loves launchpad... "starts in 20 minutes... 10... 5... 3.. 2.. 1.. 5... 10... 20..." :( [22:06] alkisg: u fixed pulseaudio? [22:06] Ahmuck: nope, not at all [23:15] !info libsdl1.2debian-alsa [23:15] Error: I tried to send you an empty message. [23:15] !info libsdl1.2debian-alsa [23:15] libsdl1.2debian-alsa (source: libsdl1.2): Simple DirectMedia Layer (with X11 and ALSA options). In component main, is extra. Version 1.2.13-4ubuntu4 (karmic), package size 212 kB, installed size 524 kB [23:15] !info libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio [23:15] libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio (source: libsdl1.2): Simple DirectMedia Layer (with X11 and PulseAudio options). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.2.13-4ubuntu4 (karmic), package size 211 kB, installed size 524 kB