[01:15] <mahngiel> good eve all. just a quick question ( i hope ). i'm looking to find the file location of the gnome menu bar ( the one which displays "applications, places, system')
[01:16] <mahngiel> i've gone through ~/.config/menus/ and /etc/xdg/menus/ to no avail found the parent editable
[01:20] <mahngiel>   anywhere i should look???
[01:24] <mahngiel> i'll re-ask due to new users in chat...
[01:25] <mahngiel> i'm trying to find the location of the parent 'config (if you will)' for the gnome menu bar that houses "Apps, places, & system'
[03:39]  * flyback is exhausted
[06:16] <sbalneav> Could someone with main rights have a quick look at Bug #501559
[06:16] <sbalneav> libgksu needs another config flag now, due to changes upstream to restore previous behavior.
[06:29] <crimsun> sbalneav: is there a solid reason why the change was made to reverse the previous default?
[09:35] <udiio> Q: can I make dpkg -b follow symlinks instead of putting them as is into the deb?
[09:37] <udiio> (like tar -h / tar --dereference
[11:45] <krymel> hi all
[11:47] <krymel> I'm planning to build a special distribution based uppon 10.04. Some kind of overlay to provide some different packages, removing unneeded etc. Do you know if there is some documentation/howto about this topic?
[11:49] <krymel> I'm familiar with deb-packaging etc. but not so much with the server side to conigure the meta-informations to provide repositories for the new distribution
[11:51] <kblin> you want to have a look at documentation on creating your own remix, I guess
[11:53] <hicham> can plymouth be run on karmic ?
[14:38] <sbalneav> crimsun: Looks as if this was a patch that was originally in debian.  Patch was moved upstream, but the corresponding --enable wasn't
[14:39] <sbalneav> So my friend stgraber tells me.
[14:39] <sbalneav> I discovered it by looking at the code in karmic vs lucid
[14:39] <sbalneav> by default in karmic, it's always doing the forkpty.
[14:40] <sbalneav> and that clearly works.
[14:40] <Quibus> hi all
[14:41] <Quibus> I've heard from an Ubuntu user that our program (openMSX, also in Ubuntu) hangsup. But when he kills pulse-audio, it works fine.
[14:41] <Quibus> This is with the standard package
[14:41] <Quibus> Doesn't this mean something is broken in Ubuntu? :-)
[14:42] <Tm_T> not automatically
[14:43] <Quibus> I'm not running Ubuntu, but in principle, installing the package 'openmsx' should give you the command 'openmsx' which should run fine.
[14:43] <Quibus> And it didn't on his netbook
[14:44] <Tm_T> Quibus: and openmsx should work just finr with pulseaudio?
[14:44] <Quibus> Tm_T: it's an SDL app, so it should work like any other SDL app using audio, I guess.
[14:46] <asac> doko: is gcc-snapshot ready for armel?
[14:46] <Tm_T> hmm, so it might be pulseaudio causing this, hmm, shame I cannot test
[14:47] <Quibus> Tm_T: a standard install on a VM might expose the problem
[14:47] <Quibus> apparently pulseaudio is installed by default nowadays
[14:47] <Tm_T> I cannot try it in that way either, sorry
[14:48] <Quibus> Tm_T: on your Ubuntu install, can you just install and run openMSX without problems?
[14:48] <Quibus> there was apparently also another problem
[14:51] <Tm_T> Quibus: then I have to set pulseaudio and many other things, too much hussle when I don't have time
[14:51] <Quibus> nah, you don't need that
[14:57] <Quibus> Tm_T: can I just bluntly let our (Ubuntu) user remove the pulseaudio package? :-)
[15:07] <Quibus> Tm_T: who is the Ubuntu maintainer of the openMSX package? All I see is the Debian maintainer, but it works fine on Debian.
[15:17] <Quibus> Tm_T: apparently files are installed at the wrong place for this package as well. Or for the cbios package, on which it depends.
[16:09] <Quibus> Tm_T: OK, I've had a chance to contact that user again, and the main problem is still that pulseaudio makes the app hang. Removing it solves the problem.
[16:11] <sbalneav> Quibus: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1071066
[16:11] <sbalneav> Third post.
[16:11] <sbalneav> need some compat work to get SDL <-> Pulse
[16:11] <Quibus> sbalneav: we're not talking about choppiness, but just a complete hangup. Only kill -9 kills the app
[16:12] <sbalneav> We've had problems with Pulse in ltsp, same issue, with pulse hanging.
[16:12] <Quibus> so, the idea is to let it use the ESD compat and let SDL use esd
[16:13] <sbalneav> appears with sdl.  Seems sdl doesn't talk nice to pulse, or pulse doesn't talk nice to sdl, or someone's not talking nice to someone. :)
[16:13] <Quibus> indeed
[16:13] <sbalneav> Quibus: Worth a try, anyway.
[16:13] <alkisg> sbalneav: it's a dependency of libsdl, it depends on alsa instead of pulse
[16:13]  * alkisg looks for one of the 12 reported bugs about it...
[16:14] <sbalneav> alkisg: yeah, didn't you run into something like this?
[16:14] <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/203158
[16:14] <alkisg> sbalneav: only dozens of times... :)
[16:14] <alkisg> Reported many of them, but it's just a tiny single line, and it isn't being commited
[16:14] <alkisg> I don't know why. It just breaks stuff...
[16:15] <alkisg> Please fix it for Lucid, by putting libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio first in the libsdl1.2debian dependencies:
[16:15] <alkisg> Depends: libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio |  libsdl1.2debian-all | libsdl1.2debian-alsa | libsdl1.2debian-esd | libsdl1.2debian-oss | libsdl1.2debian-nas
[16:15] <alkisg> That's all there is to it, a small rotation in the Depends line
[16:16] <sbalneav> Any core devs here willing to make the dep switch?
[16:17] <sbalneav> alkisg: I thought you had run into this before.
[16:17] <ScottK> That's not very friendly to the Ubuntu flavors that don't ship pulseaudio
[16:17] <sbalneav> Quibus: Maybe that will fix your issues.
[16:18] <Quibus> sbalneav: I'll ask the reporter to do this
[16:19] <sbalneav> ScottK: So, how would you recommend fixing this behaviour then? Clearly there's a problem between sdl <-> pulse.  Would identifying all SDL packages and making them depend on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio be the better way to go?
[16:21] <ScottK> I haven't had time (and don't) to research it detail, but assuming all Ubuntu users have and use Pulse is not the right way.
[16:21] <alkisg> ScottK: I don't think it's very friendly break the *primary* Ubuntu flavors for I don't know which others don't ship pulse...
[16:22] <alkisg> Because right now, sdl is broken in Ubuntu, as it uses pulse by default
[16:22] <ScottK> Kubuntu for one.
[16:22] <alkisg> ScottK: and, wouldn't Depends be satisfied if alsa is installed?
[16:22] <alkisg> No'one proposed to remove sdl-alsa...
[16:23] <ScottK> If libsdl1.2debian-alsa was installed, yes.
[16:23] <alkisg> OK, maybe it would work on Kubuntu as well then
[16:23] <ScottK> But just shoving the pulse one to the front merely shifts the problem.
[16:24] <alkisg> It surely *doesn't* work in Ubuntu right now... and I think it's the official flavor, no?
[16:26] <Quibus> sbalneav: just installing the libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio package doesn't fix the hangup, it seems
[16:27] <sbalneav> ScottK: Would identifying all SDL applications and dep'ing them on libsld*-pulseaudio be the correct way to approach this?
[16:27] <Quibus> sbalneav: oh, never mind, maybe it does work
[16:27] <sbalneav> I'd me more than happy to undertake identifying them, and filing bugs
[16:27] <sbalneav> Quibus: Ah, good news
[16:28] <alkisg> sbalneav: I don't think that would be a good approach, as it would require making ubuntu-specific packages for many SDL apps that are now imported as is from debian
[16:28] <ScottK> sbalneav: I think the trick is needing a smarter way to pick the right sdl flavor, but I'm not certain.
[16:32] <alkisg> Another way around it would be to make a dummy package, e.g. libsdl-ubuntu
[16:32] <alkisg> And that package would depend on libsdl-pulse, so it would pull that one
[16:33] <alkisg> That wouldn't require any maintanance, as it would only be there to select the right dependency
[16:33] <sbalneav> So you'd depend on libsdl-ubuntu | libsdl-kubuntu | libsdl-edubuntu, etc?
[16:34] <alkisg> No, ubuntu-desktop would depend on that (or wherever else is the difference between ubuntu/kubuntu)
[16:35]  * alkisg looks...
[16:35] <sbalneav> ah
[16:36] <alkisg> Right, ubuntu-desktop depends on pulseaudio, so it could also depend either on that dummy package, or even directly on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio...
[16:40] <sbalneav> makes sense.
[16:45] <alkisg> apt-cache rdepends libsdl1.2debian | wc -l
[16:45] <alkisg> 387
[16:46] <alkisg> All those 387 apps break in a default ubuntu installation, because of the dependency problem.
[16:48] <Quibus> yay
[16:48] <Quibus> And this is not a release critical bug??
[16:49] <sbalneav> Well, you'd think it would be, especially since some of the rdepends are in main.
[16:51] <hyperair> hmm that sdl issue rears its head again
[16:51]  * hyperair sighs
[16:52]  * ScottK wonders where is crimsun when you need him.
[16:52] <hyperair> heh
[16:52]  * alkisg has seen dozens of bugs about it in launchpad, with dozens of duplicates for each of them :(
[16:52] <hyperair> lemme dig in my logs. i think i was talking to crimsun about this last time..
[16:52] <sbalneav> Well, it'll keep rearing it's head until we whack on the head sufficiently hard enough to make it go away. :)
[16:54] <hyperair> 2009-11.log:04:28 <dtchen_> ugh. Ubuntu needs libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio on the discs as opposed to libsdl1.2debian-alsa. Which is going to be tough because Kubuntu and Xubuntu don't ship PulseAudio.
[16:54] <hyperair> 2009-12.log:15:19 <micahg> pitti: it's for libsdl1.2debian
[16:54] <hyperair> 2009-12.log:09:22 <dtchen> crypt-0: what, using libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio as a workaround? sure, that's a *workaround*. it doesn't at all address the fundamental bug.
[16:55] <hyperair> and it seems i was talking to themuso at that time
[16:55] <hyperair> speaking of whacking things on the head, my head feels pretty whacked up @_@
[16:55] <micahg> hyperair: he just gave an IRC session on fixing alsa bugs
[16:56] <hyperair> ah
[16:56] <hyperair> micahg: well this is more of a dependency issue rather than anything..
[16:56] <hyperair> how about pulseaudio recommending libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio?
[16:56] <alkisg> Isn't it possible to put it in the Dependencies of ubuntu-desktop, as that's the package that seperates Ubuntu from the other flavors?
[16:57] <sbalneav> apt's installing the recommends' now, iirc?  That might work.
[16:57] <hyperair> yeah it should be possible, but the thing is.. do you want libsdl installed by default?
[16:58] <micahg> hyperair: crimsun said that was only a workaround per my discussion with him, he said someone needs to actually fix it :) here's a link to the training session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-12-27
[16:58] <alkisg> It is installed by default, though...
[16:58] <hyperair> alkisg: it is?!
[16:58] <alkisg> Yeah, I can see it in the alpha Lucid live cd
[16:58] <alkisg> The -alsa one, I mean
[16:59] <hyperair> micahg: i don't see anything of sdl in the training session
[17:00] <micahg> hyperair: the training session was for alsa bugs, where I thought the problem with sdl was
[17:00] <hyperair> ah
[17:00] <hyperair> no the problem here is that the wrong flavour of sdl is being installed by default
[17:01] <micahg> hyperair: I had that argument already as you posted a few minutes ago :)
[17:02] <hyperair> heh
[17:02]  * micahg will be quiet now :)
[17:02] <wind-rider> hi
[17:02] <hyperair> libsdl seems to be pretty tiny
[17:02] <hyperair> i think we can install it by default..
[17:02] <wind-rider> i have a question about adding keysyms to xkb
[17:03] <hyperair> wind-rider: #ubuntu
[17:03] <wind-rider> hyperair: i'd like to add them upstream
[17:03] <hyperair> oh. upstream.
[17:03] <hyperair> er
[17:03] <hyperair> file a bug?
[17:03] <wind-rider> hyperair: i though #ubuntu is for "customer support"
[17:03] <hyperair> yeah, sorry
[17:04] <hyperair> i thought you were asking about how to add keysyms to some config file in $HOME
[17:04] <wind-rider> hyperair: that can be done using a xmodmap file
[17:04] <wind-rider> hyperair: indeed
[17:04] <hyperair> mmhmm
[17:05] <hyperair> wind-rider: so which upstream do you mean?
[17:05] <wind-rider> hyperair: but i have a sony vaio sr-series laptop which has some hotkeys and a mode- and settings-button for them
[17:05] <hyperair> ah
[17:05] <hyperair> i see
[17:05] <wind-rider> hyperair: i think something should be added to the xkb-data package
[17:05] <hyperair> hmmmm
[17:05] <hyperair> i'm not sure where it goes
[17:05] <hyperair> wasn't it supposed to go through udev or something...
[17:05] <hyperair> @_@
[17:06] <wind-rider> hyperair: like this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Hotkeys/Architecture
[17:06] <wind-rider> hyperair: i think udev is when there is no keycode yet
[17:06] <hyperair> ah
[17:06] <hyperair> right
[17:06] <wind-rider> hyperair: but these keys already generate a keycode, only they do not have a X11 keysym
[17:06] <hyperair> basically you're saying that xev has your keycode, right?
[17:07] <hyperair> oh
[17:07] <wind-rider> hyperair: xev returns the keycode, but 'NoSymbol' as keysym
[17:07] <hyperair> i see.
[17:07] <hyperair> well i'm not sure where that goes =p
[17:07] <wind-rider> hyperair: and that makes that i can't use them in qt or kde
[17:07] <wind-rider> hyperair: i think i have to use http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig/Rules
[17:07] <wind-rider> hyperair: but i could use some help
[17:08] <hyperair> wind-rider: are you sure? if xev can capture it, it can be used.
[17:08] <hyperair> wind-rider: as a hotkey i mean
[17:08] <hyperair> my keyboard used to have missing keysyms too
[17:08] <hyperair> it gave me a bunch of 0xwhatever
[17:08] <wind-rider> hyperair: in gnome, yes, but not in kde
[17:08] <hyperair> ah
[17:08] <hyperair> KDE's fault then
[17:08] <wind-rider> hyperair: you mean using gnome-keybinding-settings or so?
[17:08] <hyperair> yes
[17:08] <hyperair> but you did mention that gnome yes but not in kde
[17:08] <wind-rider> hyperair: well, qt and kde do not respond that way
[17:09] <hyperair> so go file a bug in KDE
[17:09] <hyperair> or QT
[17:09] <hyperair> or whichever is at fault
[17:09] <hyperair> i'd sugget that you also file a bug with xkb
[17:09] <wind-rider> hyperair: kde is qt-based
[17:09] <hyperair> or wherever the keysyms come from
[17:09] <hyperair> wind-rider: i'm very well aware of that.
[17:10] <wind-rider> hyperair: i meant the fact that it doesn't work in kde is because it doesn't work in qt
[17:10] <hyperair> but is the library that lacks support for it qt or kde?
[17:10] <hyperair> ah
[17:10] <wind-rider> hyperair: but i
[17:10] <hyperair> i thought KDE was the one that handled hotkeys...
[17:10] <hyperair> Qt's just a graphical toolkit
[17:11] <wind-rider> hyperair: it's qt, see http://api.kde.org/4.0-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKShortcut.html#16c533665594ce8b5bf0f756a68a863c
[17:12] <hyperair> aha i see
[17:12] <wind-rider> qt also passes the keys
[17:12] <wind-rider> in a qkeysequence
[17:12] <hyperair> i see
[17:12] <hyperair> so file a bug in qt
[17:12] <hyperair> and also file a bug in xkb so that the keysym comes around
[17:13] <wind-rider> qts keys are mapped to x11s keysyms
[17:13] <hyperair> meh.
[17:13] <hyperair> bad design >_>
[17:13] <wind-rider> hyperair: so if a x11-binding is lacking, it doesn't work i thing
[17:13] <hyperair> hence bad design
[17:14] <hyperair> so file a bug
[17:14] <wind-rider> i can do that, but i'd like to do something about the x11 keysym using http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig/Rules
[17:14] <wind-rider> and i was hoping somebody could help me here
[17:15] <hyperair> i think #ubuntu-x would have more people who could help you with this..
[17:15] <hyperair> i'm not familiar with this
[17:15] <wind-rider> ok, i did not know that channel exists
[17:15] <hyperair> =)
[17:15] <hyperair> either way you should still file a bug first
[17:16] <hyperair> in the upstream bug tracker
[17:16] <hyperair> *trackers
[17:16] <hyperair> qt inclusive
[17:16] <hyperair> i'd consider it a bug to not be able to handle sequences that are caught correctly by xev
[17:19] <wind-rider> hyperair: you could say that, yes
[17:20] <wind-rider> hyperair: i see qt can return scancodes instead of a 'recognized' key
[17:20] <wind-rider> hyperair: but that those are probably not used in kde
[17:20] <hyperair> then it would be a fault of KDE
[17:20] <hyperair> so the bug would go there
[17:23] <wind-rider> hyperair: thanks for thinking along!
[17:32] <hyperair> np
[17:34] <alkisg> How can I find out which package pulls libsdl in the default ubuntu installation? I've got a Lucid live cd on a vbox right now if it helps...
[17:36] <wind-rider> hyperair: bug reported: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=220712
[17:36]  * hyperair claps
[17:37] <wind-rider> :)
[17:37] <ScottK> alkisg: aptitude why [packagename] may help.
[17:38] <alkisg> ScottK: thanks, just got it with rdepends and grepping,
[17:38] <alkisg> it's libgegl
[17:39] <sbalneav> Prolly for the killer gegls easter egg
[17:40] <alkisg> Ahm... is gimp going to be dropped in Lucid? If so, it appears that it'll take libsdl with it (on the default installation...)
[17:40] <ScottK> That's also not directly seeded.
[17:40] <ScottK> alkisg: My understanding is it's not going to be in the default Ubuntu install.
[17:41] <ScottK> alkisg: Yes, it's just on the dvd now.
[17:41] <alkisg> Hmm then forcing ubuntu-desktop to include libsdl-pulse won't have any chances of being accepted... :(
[17:42] <ScottK> I'd guesss not.
[17:42] <wind-rider> hyperair: i must go, bye!
[17:42]  * hyperair waves
[17:43] <sbalneav> So, then looks like a recommends on pulseaudio would be the way to go.
[17:44] <tmus> debootstrap'ing an ubuntu system leaves me with a keyboard that doesn't work with danish chars... Everything else appears to work fine and the keyboard and fonts have been configured. I suspect some important library is missing from the debootstrap based installation, but cannot figure out which one... Any idea? And should it be fixed?
[17:44] <ScottK> sbalneav: For which package?
[17:45] <alkisg> For libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio, I imagine...
[17:45] <sbalneav> pulseaudio itself?  That way, if your ubuntu flavour installs pulse, you'll get the recommended sdl
[17:46] <sbalneav> ah, sorry, misunderstood the question.
[17:46] <ScottK> Having pulseaudio recommend libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio would also pull it onto the CD.
[17:47] <siretart> is that something we would want? do we have any sdl using applications on the CD?
[17:47] <ScottK> siretart: We don't anymore.
[17:47] <sbalneav> bbiab
[17:47] <alkisg> It's already on the CD
[17:48] <ScottK> alkisg: Why?
[17:48] <alkisg> I mean that it is, *currently*
[17:48] <ScottK> Didn't you just say that gimp was the only thing pulling it on?
[17:48] <alkisg> Yup
[17:48] <ScottK> Gimp isn't on the CD in Lucid.
[17:48] <alkisg> It is, on my alpha..
[17:49] <ScottK> Grepping the seeds produces ubuntu.lucid/dvd: * gimp
[17:49] <alkisg> Well I just booted with the live cd!?? /me rechecks...
[17:49] <siretart> alkisg: try today's daily...
[17:50] <alkisg> siretart: well, that would take me hours :)
[17:50] <alkisg> If it was removed after the alpha, sure, I'm just reporting what I see on my live cd...
[17:52] <ScottK> alkisg: bzr log says: http://paste.debian.net/55247/
[17:53] <alkisg> OK. So. A user installs Lucid. Then he installs tuxpaint. The -alsa flavor of libsdl gets installed, and tuxpaint just hangs.
[17:53] <alkisg> How can that be fixed? I assume modifying 387 packages is not an option, and neither is shipping a different libsdl dummy package for Ubuntu than the one for Kubuntu...
[17:53] <ScottK> So the question would be what bug was crimsun saying seeding the pulse version was just a work around for and how to get it fixed?
[17:54] <alkisg> So what other solutions are there?
[17:54]  * ScottK wonders if hyperair has that in his logs too?
[17:55] <hyperair> ScottK: hmm? what about?
[17:55] <ScottK> [11:54:47] <hyperair> 2009-12.log:09:22 <dtchen> crypt-0: what, using libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio as a workaround? sure, that's a *workaround*. it doesn't at all address the fundamental bug.
[17:56] <ScottK> So what's the fundamental bug?
[17:56] <hyperair> lemme see
[17:57] <alkisg> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/08/%23ubuntu-devel.txt
[17:58] <ScottK> alkisg: What time?
[17:59] <hyperair> 09:22 UTC+0800
[17:59] <alkisg> ScottK: [01:22] <dtchen> crypt-0: what, using libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio as a workaround? sure, that's a *workaround*. it doesn't at all address the fundamental bug.
[17:59] <ScottK> Thanks
[17:59] <hyperair> something about not syncing hw ptr
[17:59] <hyperair> nothing much was said there
[18:02] <ScottK> Different issue.
[18:04] <alkisg> Does "Depends: A | B" *always* installs "A" if neither of those packages are already installed?
[18:04] <alkisg> Or is there some way to alter the priorities?
[18:05] <alkisg> Hmmm what about "pulseaudio => conflicts: libsdl-alsa"?
[18:05] <Quibus> What you seem to need is: "if installed(pulseaudio) && needs(libsdl) { install(libsdl-pulsaudio) } so to speak
[18:05] <ScottK> Which isn't supported.
[18:06]  * ScottK punts to crimsun.
[18:06] <hyperair> wait, what alkisg said makes sense, doesn't it?
[18:07] <hyperair> if pulseaudio conflicts all the libsdls except pulseaudio, then it would force the pulseaudio libsdl to be installed, right?
[18:07] <ScottK> It might.  I'd have to test it to make sure.
[18:09] <alkisg> ScottK: I can test it if that'll help in solving the problem. What do I do, build a pulseaudio with "conflicts: libsdl-* except pulse", then install it over the current lucid daily CD, then try to install tuxpaint and see what it gets me?
[18:09] <ScottK> alkisg: Sounds reasonable.
[18:10] <alkisg> OK, will report back in a few hours, when I download the CD... :-/
[18:10] <ScottK> I'd still want to hear from someone who understands SDL better than me to make sure we aren't just creating another problem.
[18:10] <alkisg> (ehm, or I could make a test case with similar dependencies, that'd be much faster...)
[18:11] <ScottK> You could also upload your test package to a PPA now, so it'd be ready after you had the CD downloaded.
[18:12] <alkisg> OK, I'll do that. I hope it'll be worth it... :)
[18:17] <kblin> oh, cool, I found a regression bug :)
[18:21] <kblin> to reopen a bug, I just need to set the status of the bug from fix released to new, right?
[18:21] <ScottK> kblin: It's probably better to file a new bug with a link to the old one as often different issues can have similar symptoms.
[18:22] <ScottK> If a developer agrees the old bug should be reopened, they can do that and mark your new one as a dupe.
[18:22] <kblin> ScottK: it's the exact same thing..
[18:23] <ScottK> kblin: Unless you have a patch, you can't really say that for sure.  I see bugs get reopened all the time and it's almost never the same cause.
[18:23] <kblin> ScottK: the msmtp package doesn't provide "mail-transport-agent", so you can't install that and then mutt without pulling in postfix (or some other mta)
[18:23] <kblin> it's a packaging bug
[18:24] <kblin> it looks like this was fixed for feisty, but in karmic I see the same issue
[18:24] <ScottK> kblin: Yes, but not in msmtp.  It's not an MTA.
[18:25] <kblin> huh? how is that not an mta?
[18:25] <ScottK> "light SMTP client"
[18:25] <ScottK> Being an SMTP client is approximately half of being an MTA.
[18:26] <kblin> fair enough, so it's a mutt packaging bug
[18:26] <ScottK> Seems reasonable to me.
[18:26] <kblin> I'll file a bug againt mutt then
[18:27] <kblin> but given that the deb for msmtp says "msmtp is an SMTP client that can be used to send mails from Mutt", it's a bit silly that you can't use it for just that :)
[18:27] <kblin> but I see the reasoning for considering this a mutt bug
[19:13] <alkisg> The current lucid daily *still* has "autologin not working" problem, like the edubuntu daily I tried 3 days ago also had.
[19:13] <krymel> re
[19:14] <alkisg> It also has gimp and libsdl installed. Removing to properly test...
[19:17] <krymel> my connection was broken last time I asked this: my question was regarding the infrastructure to host packages of the distro. When I want to host all packages of ubuntu lucid on a local http server to have a local shadow mirror copy - is there a howto or documentation how to do this?
[19:23] <bigon> Hi, could someone gives back https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plexus-active-collections ?? I cannot
[19:24] <kblin> krymel: as I said before, you'll want to look at documentation about creating your own remix. :)
[19:24] <krymel> ah ok :) thats the naming :)
[19:24] <krymel> thank you!
[19:24] <krymel> "remix" :-D
[19:25] <kblin> no problem :)
[19:29] <krymel_> member:kblin: maybe you have a link for me pointing to the howto? I cannot find it on google (sry)
[19:56] <naxa> hi. ok. can you help me to build GTK+ on Karmic? :) I'm a complete noob
[19:57] <naxa> I've tried to follow jhbuild's docs but it's so outdated that jhbuild says me it's missing it's jhbuild  python module... (???)
[19:57] <naxa> (or maybe I did something wrong :D)
[19:57] <naxa> (hopefully not)
[19:59] <naxa> ok maybe I should extract it and configure make make install but I thought jhbuild is out there for some reason
[20:05] <naxa> well, never mind.. :)
[20:05] <naxa> bye
[20:51] <hggdh> regarding bug 383502 -- should we move to coreutils timeout, or simply set WONTFIX?
[21:01]  * flyback bbl gotta shutdown while they rewire
[23:08] <crimsun> ScottK: / sbalneav: the issue lies in alsa-plugins, but we may be able to hack around it in pulseaudio
[23:09]  * ScottK fixed the powerpc build failure, but that's about as far as I can go on SDL.
[23:10] <alkisg> ScottK, crimsun: I tried to make pulseaudio conflict with the other libsdl flavors, but I had no success. aptitude was able to installl e.g. tuxpaint afterwards (with solution score=50), but apt-get was unable to.
[23:11] <crimsun> ugh
[23:11] <crimsun> please don't do silly things with libsdl
[23:11] <crimsun> everyone involved knows about the nastiness, and it will be addressed in January
[23:12] <crimsun> again, we have a number of issues to walk:
[23:12] <crimsun> 1) unnecessary wakeups in the pcm core of alsa-kernel
[23:12] <crimsun> 2) incorrect (delayed) "hw ptr" tracking in the pulse alsa-plugin
[23:12] <crimsun> 3) races in PA
[23:13] <alkisg> OK, there are bugs that need to be solved. I still don't understand how SDL is going to use pulse by default on Ubuntu, instead of alsa.
[23:14] <crimsun> alkisg: it can't
[23:14] <crimsun> libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio is in universe, for starters
[23:14] <alkisg> So is libsdl1.2debian-alsa
[23:15] <crimsun> that doesn't even matter
[23:15] <crimsun> libsdl1.2debian is in main
[23:15] <crimsun> that has a dependency on libsdl1.2debian-all
[23:16] <alkisg> Here's a problem: a user installs ltsp and tuxpaint. Both are in main. But the sound doesn't work and the application hangs.
[23:17] <alkisg> Even if it worked, it would come out of the server's speakers, instead of the thin client's, if pulse wasn't used
[23:17] <alkisg> So it's still a bug in main that needs to be solved.
[23:18] <alkisg> Since ubuntu is using pulse, sdl needs to also use pulse by default...
[23:18] <crimsun> I've already outlined the three components that need to be fixed
[23:18] <crimsun> please feel free to contribute resources to fix them
[23:18] <alkisg> But the main problem wasn't addressed
[23:18] <alkisg> Even if those problems are fixed, still the ltsp/sdl problem remains
[23:19] <alkisg> (unless I didn't understand something, of course)
[23:20] <alkisg> In any case, thank you for your time...
[23:21] <crimsun> well, the crux of your ltsp/libsdl issue is that it's easy to fix for "Ubuntu" and simultaneously break Kubuntu and Xubuntu
[23:22] <alkisg> Right. I wish the packagement system was clever enough to understand that we want libsdl-pulse when we are using pulseaudio.
[23:22] <crimsun> so, either Ubuntu gains an explicit seed for libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio and Kubuntu/Xubuntu, libsdl1.2debian-all instead, stuff is going to break.
[23:23] <crimsun> I don't think (at least offhand) that the package manager has to do anything special. Just the seeds need to be changed.
[23:23] <alkisg> Would that be too bad? (including a seed for libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio)
[23:23] <alkisg> It isn't a big library...
[23:24] <crimsun> I don't think so as long as the corresponding change for Kubuntu & Xubuntu (libsdl1.2debian-all) are made simultaneously.
[23:28] <_zap_> hi. i would like to install (k)ubuntu on a loop-aes encrypted root.
[23:29] <_zap_> for this it seems i have to modify the installation cd
[23:29] <_zap_> which is ok
[23:30] <_zap_> but i don't see how i can make tell the graphical installer to install ubuntu on /dev/loopX instead of the hard disk
[23:30] <_zap_> is there a way to do that?
[23:30] <wgrant> _zap_: #ubuntu can help you.
[23:30] <_zap_> ok#
[23:31] <krymel> has anyone an idea where I can find an irc room for asking questions regarding to special topics in linux network stack implementation?
[23:33] <crimsun> if there aren't references from either linux-netdev or kernelnewbies, then I don't know offhand
[23:33] <_zap_> krymel: if it's about kernel programming you could try ##kernel
[23:34] <krymel> thanks, _zap_
[23:35] <_zap_> krymel: np
[23:40] <crimsun> ok, I'll be sending out an e-mail to ubuntu-devel{,-discuss}, but I'm disabling powerdown for all HDA controllers due to our kernel being unlikely to ship the necessary patches
[23:40] <crimsun> One side effect is that your glitching and popping after 10 seconds (or coming back from idle) will disappear
[23:41] <crimsun> Since my patches to fix these issues have already been merged into ALSA 1.0.22.1, they'll likely land in a linux-backports-modules-alsa-lucid-generic or something, so people who really want the additional 0.5W-0.7W savings can install that package
[23:43] <BUGabundo> evening guys
[23:43] <BUGabundo>  ERROR: ioctl() [No such file or directory][2]
[23:43] <BUGabundo> rings any bells to anyone ?
[23:44] <BUGabundo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/n2n/+bug/501768
[23:44] <crimsun> I just gave you a pointer in +1
[23:44]  * BUGabundo checks