/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/01/01/#edubuntu.txt

Ahmuck-Jranybody using anytype of caldav server in edubuntu?00:17
Ahmuck-Jror pre-configured server?00:18
Ahmuck-Jrhttp://www.bedework.org/bedework/00:25
LaserJockbah02:36
LaserJockanybody seen Lns?02:36
stgraberhe was there 3 hours ago03:07
LaserJockwell, I got users-admin to do sorting03:14
LaserJockwhich he reported as lacking in bug #25916303:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 259163 in gnome-system-tools "users-admin does not sort when Name/Login/Homedir field clicked" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25916303:15
stgraberLaserJock: btw, looking at the current Edubuntu seeds, ship-addon isn't used by the DVD and so shouldn't exist anymore ?03:19
LaserJockhmm03:20
LaserJocklet me check03:21
LaserJockbecause it seems like maybe there was still a purpose for it03:21
LaserJockthere's no obvious dependency (that's good)03:23
LaserJockstgraber: you could try removing it and seeing if everything blows up :-)03:24
stgraberas I understand it, everything that's on the DVD in .deb form is in the dvd seed and everything else is in the dvd-live seed03:24
LaserJockwell, kinda yeah03:25
stgraberthough that means edubuntu-server (Edubuntu content server) isn't on the current DVD which I didn't know of ;)03:25
LaserJockbut it's quite a bit more complicated03:25
LaserJockwe took edubuntu-server off because all it was doing was installing moodle and we had issues with it03:25
stgraberok03:26
LaserJockthe livecd environment build scripts have some hard-coded bits03:26
LaserJockbut I think that's just relative to desktop-gnome and maybe dvd-live03:26
LaserJockor maybe it's live03:26
LaserJockthe problem is also that we inherit Ubuntu's seeds03:27
LaserJockbut looking at the ship-addon CD, I don't think anything should be using it03:27
stgraberI'm currently looking at including what we need for the Netbook remix, it should simply be a matter of changing STRUCTURE so the dvd seed (not dvd-live) inherits from the ubuntu-netbook-remix seed as well03:28
stgraberok, I'll drop the addon at the same time and see if I get some scary mails ;)03:28
stgraberstgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$ grep -r netbook *03:29
stgraberstgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$03:29
stgraberthat's disturbing ;)03:29
LaserJockit's probably in a separate branch03:29
LaserJockI do wonder a little how having so very many installation options is going to work03:30
stgraberhmm, yes it's, that's weird they made a separate branch even after making it an official derivative (as in, no longer a remix)03:30
stgraberLaserJock: well, the goal is to drop the text install (Workstation), so it should actually reduce the number of install option03:31
stgraber(that's if we can move LTSP to the Live environment in time)03:31
LaserJockwell, but then how do you install the netbook version?03:31
stgraberthe idea is to have the packages on the DVD and an option in ubiquity to install them03:31
LaserJockadditionally, even if you move it all into the live installer there are quite some options03:31
LaserJocksomething to consider is the way in which Ubiquity installs things03:32
LaserJockI'm fairly sure it copies over the image and then removes stuff that shouldn't be there03:32
stgraberyeah, we'll need some tweaking there as ubiquity usually only removes packages03:33
LaserJockwhich means the more you put in the installer the longer the install process takes03:33
stgraberand we don't want these installed in the DVD image (at least not for LTSP and not for the netbook remix gconf schema)03:33
LaserJockfor instance, a person who just wants plain old Edubuntu without LTSP, etc. might take twice as long to install as they need to03:34
LaserJockso you want it outside the Live chroot?03:34
stgraberyep03:34
stgraberif we can, then we'll make ubiquity install them from the DVD and if we can't they'll need to install them after the install by using the DVD as a repo03:34
LaserJockwill Ubiquity handle that OK?03:34
stgraberI sent an e-mail to Collin about that, I'm waiting for his reply at the moment03:35
LaserJockI see03:35
LaserJockif it works that makes a lot of sense03:35
LaserJockas it is already people may have to spend a lot of time removing packages at installation03:35
LaserJockbecause of all the edu apps03:36
stgraberright03:40
LaserJockwill the installer have options for the app bundles?03:40
stgraberinitial use for that kind of option in the installer would be for LTSP and for the Netbook edition, if it works correctly, then I guess we'll use it for quite a few other things (including choose the bundles)03:42
stgraberthough then, it'd mean we won't have the bundles installed in the live environment which would be bad for testing/demo of edubuntu03:42
LaserJockhmm03:43
stgraberit's less of a problem for LTSP and the netbook interface as these two usually cause some troubles when installed in a live environment (for the first, that'd mean having a dhcp/tftp/ssh/nbd server running and for the second, that'd change the UI quite a bit)03:43
LaserJockI guess that is a separate implementation detail03:43
LaserJockbut it would be good if Ubiquity could be used to change what packages get removed03:43
stgraberfor the bundles, I guess the easiest would be to install them in all cases and remove them03:44
stgraberright03:44
LaserJockso picking an app bundle or two would remove the remainder03:44
LaserJockyeah03:44
Ahmuck-JrHappy New Year!06:00
alkisgHappy New Year06:02
Dafnahttp://www.edubuntu.org/Download has not been updated to refer to version 9.1014:40
* HedgeMage peeks in17:42
HedgeMageAnyone awake?19:38
HedgeMageI need a second opinion on something.19:38
alkisg!ask19:58
ubottuPlease don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)19:58
alkisgHedgeMage: ^^19:58
HedgeMageYeah, yeah, yeah... I want to pm the link to someone because I'm not sure I like it enough to be logged for posterity :P19:59
* HedgeMage is a very self-conscious designer, especially since she's really a developer trying to do a bad imitation of design :P19:59
HedgeMagealkisg: So, up for looking at a VERY rough draft of what I think I'll suggest for a new edubuntu.org design?20:00
* HedgeMage needs feedback20:00
alkisgHedgeMage: sure!20:00
alkisgBut also send PMs at least to sbalneav and highvolt1ge :)20:01
HedgeMagealkisg: I already sent it to highvoltage via jabber.20:01
alkisg...and stgraber20:01
HedgeMageI haven't seen any sign that sbalneav is online, so I'll send him a link when I see him.  I already jabbered stgraber.20:01
alkisgWow, very refreshing20:01
alkisgI love it! Maybe the main text could be a tag bigger?20:02
HedgeMageYeah, it needs lots more work...I'm just trying to see if folks like the general concept before I put tons of polishing time in.20:03
HedgeMageThat way, if it needs a major change, I can do it and spend that polishing time on an idea we'll actually use20:03
alkisgAnd I think it needs some other icon to "break" the monotony, but sure, I think it's great!20:03
HedgeMageThanks :D20:04
alkisgIt's modern and refreshing but still suitable for also adults20:04
* HedgeMage beams20:06
alkisgHedgeMage: can that be done as a drupal theme, or whatever it is that we're using for our webpage?20:06
HedgeMageYes, I do drupal development for a living, that's why I volunteered when highvolt1ge started talking about upgrading the site.20:07
alkisgAh right I remember now, sorry :)20:08
alkisg(it shows that I haven't put any work in our webpage etc :D)20:09
HedgeMagelol np20:10
Ahmuck-Jrany chance of having a bug day each week?20:37
Ahmuck-Jror bi-weekly?20:37
alkisgHeh... if we can fund sbalneav's days off work, sure :P :D20:45
HedgeMagehehe20:53
HedgeMageAhmuck-Jr: any opinion on: http://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  -- it's very very rough, but I guess I'm brave enough to show it around in here now.21:00
Ahmuck-Jrfor edubuntu new website?21:02
HedgeMageYes.  It's just a first draft of my idea, nothing official.21:03
HedgeMageAhmuck-Jr: thoughts?21:05
Ahmuck-Jri like it21:05
HedgeMage:D21:06
HedgeMageHopefully, highvolt1ge, stgraber, and sbalneav will pop in today so I can get their opinions.21:07
HedgeMageThe mockup still needs lots of work, but I don't want to put in too much until I get any major changes they might have (or find out I should scrap it and start again)21:08
stgraberHedgeMage: pong22:35
HedgeMagestgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only22:36
HedgeMagecrud22:36
HedgeMagesorry, mispaste22:36
HedgeMagestgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only22:37
HedgeMagegrrr22:37
HedgeMagehttp://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  <-- that is the URL22:37
HedgeMagestgraber: ^^^  (Please ignore the broken pastes, this is the URL I wanted you to see)22:38
stgrabergeneral layout looks good, I'm just a bit worried of how it'd appear on a netbook screen (1024x600) with these two blocks at the top22:41
stgraberthough I guess it's a usuall issue with netbook screens so something the netbook users are quite used to ;)22:42
HedgeMagestgraber: The two blocks on the top would only appear on the front page, and only to anonymous (not logged in) users, at least according to my current concept :)22:44
stgrabergreat22:44
stgraberthat'd be the equivalent to our current release announcement blocks I guess ?22:44
HedgeMageMy thought was to use the square for that, and use the larger rectangle to tell new visitors what edubuntu is and point them to overview pages for parents, teachers, etc.22:45
stgraberyep, sounds good22:45
HedgeMagebrb, laundry22:46
stgrabersomething else to be careful about I guess is the vast range of currently used screen resolutions as we have users on screen ranging from 10" 1024x600 (netbooks) to the kind of screens I have here and at the office (24" at 1920x1080). That was an issue with the previous design (at there was a max-width set in px making most of the screen unused)22:47
HedgeMagestgraber: The header will not expand (to do so would require a use of SVG that would make the page crash for IE users), it will just be centered.  The rest will be fluid (grow to fit the browser area, with a small margin to make it look nice)22:49
HedgeMagestgraber: At least, that's the plan.  I'm still at the seeking info phase, and I haven't even gotten to show this to highvolt1ge yet, as he's afk.22:50
HedgeMages/info/opinions/22:50
HedgeMagestgraber: if highvolt1ge and sbalneav are as happy with the general concept as you, alkisg, Ahmuck-Jr, and pygi seem to be, I'll flesh it out quite a bit more and pass it around again.22:56
stgrabercool23:00
stgraberhaving the logo centered is fine as long as the rest of the page expand correctly, what I hate is having content at the middle of the screen that must be split so it fits and have 50% of the screen completely empty because of fixed width23:01
HedgeMagehighvolt1ge mentioned wanting to get this out in the next month or so, and I'm moving soon (a very time-consuming operation), so I'm hoping to get this hashed out sooner rather than later.23:02
HedgeMagestgraber: Yes, fixed-with themes are a pet peeve of mine as well.23:02
HedgeMageThe thing that bugs me is that people don't make them because they look better or are easier to use, they make them because they are easier to code.23:03
stgraberyeah, I've been converting the Ubuntu theme from fixed width to variable width (the theme currently on brainstorm.u.c) and it's a pain to make something that works correctly on all browsers (we had to support IE6 at the time ...)23:04
* HedgeMage nods23:05
stgraberthe issue is usually to get a CSS that works just as well on IE and on FF, I guess now that IE6 is supposed to be gone (even Microsoft tries to get rid of it), it should make things slightly easier23:06
alkisgIE6 gone? There are a lot of w2k clients out there... :(23:06
HedgeMagealkisg: they can get an update to 7 from MS for free.23:06
alkisgHedgeMage: nope23:06
alkisgIE7 is only for >= XP23:06
HedgeMagealkisg: oh?  Why not?23:07
HedgeMageahh23:07
* HedgeMage doesn't really follow the windoze world23:07
* alkisg had to support windows apps + sites for a long, long time. :(23:07
alkisgMy site is even tested in IE4 :(23:07
HedgeMagealkisg: Well, they'll have to live with it -- we can make things degrade as gracefully as possible, but if we halt progress because some users can't be bothered tomove on, we all lose.23:07
HedgeMagealkisg: eww23:07
alkisgHeh23:08
alkisgYeah sure I was just mentioning it, I didn't mean that it was something important :D23:08
stgraberI used to care for >= IE6, now I changed that to be >= IE7, it cuts the amount of hack required for specific browsers by half at least ;)23:08
HedgeMageYep23:08
stgraberand for these still using IE6, they aren't very likely to go to my sites anyway or they'll need to install FF ;)23:08
HedgeMagehrm...I'd really like to work on this some more since I have some time today, but it bothers me that I haven't gotten to run it past highvolt1ge and sbalneav yet.23:09
stgrabermaybe you'll see sbalneav online a bit later today but it's a lot less likely for highvolt1ge (it's 1am in South Africa)23:10
* HedgeMage nods23:10

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