[00:17] <Ahmuck-Jr> anybody using anytype of caldav server in edubuntu?
[00:18] <Ahmuck-Jr> or pre-configured server?
[00:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> http://www.bedework.org/bedework/
[02:36] <LaserJock> bah
[02:36] <LaserJock> anybody seen Lns?
[03:07] <stgraber> he was there 3 hours ago
[03:14] <LaserJock> well, I got users-admin to do sorting
[03:15] <LaserJock> which he reported as lacking in bug #259163
[03:19] <stgraber> LaserJock: btw, looking at the current Edubuntu seeds, ship-addon isn't used by the DVD and so shouldn't exist anymore ?
[03:20] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:21] <LaserJock> let me check
[03:21] <LaserJock> because it seems like maybe there was still a purpose for it
[03:23] <LaserJock> there's no obvious dependency (that's good)
[03:24] <LaserJock> stgraber: you could try removing it and seeing if everything blows up :-)
[03:24] <stgraber> as I understand it, everything that's on the DVD in .deb form is in the dvd seed and everything else is in the dvd-live seed
[03:25] <LaserJock> well, kinda yeah
[03:25] <stgraber> though that means edubuntu-server (Edubuntu content server) isn't on the current DVD which I didn't know of ;)
[03:25] <LaserJock> but it's quite a bit more complicated
[03:25] <LaserJock> we took edubuntu-server off because all it was doing was installing moodle and we had issues with it
[03:26] <stgraber> ok
[03:26] <LaserJock> the livecd environment build scripts have some hard-coded bits
[03:26] <LaserJock> but I think that's just relative to desktop-gnome and maybe dvd-live
[03:26] <LaserJock> or maybe it's live
[03:27] <LaserJock> the problem is also that we inherit Ubuntu's seeds
[03:27] <LaserJock> but looking at the ship-addon CD, I don't think anything should be using it
[03:28] <stgraber> I'm currently looking at including what we need for the Netbook remix, it should simply be a matter of changing STRUCTURE so the dvd seed (not dvd-live) inherits from the ubuntu-netbook-remix seed as well
[03:28] <stgraber> ok, I'll drop the addon at the same time and see if I get some scary mails ;)
[03:29] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$ grep -r netbook *
[03:29] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$
[03:29] <stgraber> that's disturbing ;)
[03:29] <LaserJock> it's probably in a separate branch
[03:30] <LaserJock> I do wonder a little how having so very many installation options is going to work
[03:30] <stgraber> hmm, yes it's, that's weird they made a separate branch even after making it an official derivative (as in, no longer a remix)
[03:31] <stgraber> LaserJock: well, the goal is to drop the text install (Workstation), so it should actually reduce the number of install option
[03:31] <stgraber> (that's if we can move LTSP to the Live environment in time)
[03:31] <LaserJock> well, but then how do you install the netbook version?
[03:31] <stgraber> the idea is to have the packages on the DVD and an option in ubiquity to install them
[03:31] <LaserJock> additionally, even if you move it all into the live installer there are quite some options
[03:32] <LaserJock> something to consider is the way in which Ubiquity installs things
[03:32] <LaserJock> I'm fairly sure it copies over the image and then removes stuff that shouldn't be there
[03:33] <stgraber> yeah, we'll need some tweaking there as ubiquity usually only removes packages
[03:33] <LaserJock> which means the more you put in the installer the longer the install process takes
[03:33] <stgraber> and we don't want these installed in the DVD image (at least not for LTSP and not for the netbook remix gconf schema)
[03:34] <LaserJock> for instance, a person who just wants plain old Edubuntu without LTSP, etc. might take twice as long to install as they need to
[03:34] <LaserJock> so you want it outside the Live chroot?
[03:34] <stgraber> yep
[03:34] <stgraber> if we can, then we'll make ubiquity install them from the DVD and if we can't they'll need to install them after the install by using the DVD as a repo
[03:34] <LaserJock> will Ubiquity handle that OK?
[03:35] <stgraber> I sent an e-mail to Collin about that, I'm waiting for his reply at the moment
[03:35] <LaserJock> I see
[03:35] <LaserJock> if it works that makes a lot of sense
[03:35] <LaserJock> as it is already people may have to spend a lot of time removing packages at installation
[03:36] <LaserJock> because of all the edu apps
[03:40] <stgraber> right
[03:40] <LaserJock> will the installer have options for the app bundles?
[03:42] <stgraber> initial use for that kind of option in the installer would be for LTSP and for the Netbook edition, if it works correctly, then I guess we'll use it for quite a few other things (including choose the bundles)
[03:42] <stgraber> though then, it'd mean we won't have the bundles installed in the live environment which would be bad for testing/demo of edubuntu
[03:43] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:43] <stgraber> it's less of a problem for LTSP and the netbook interface as these two usually cause some troubles when installed in a live environment (for the first, that'd mean having a dhcp/tftp/ssh/nbd server running and for the second, that'd change the UI quite a bit)
[03:43] <LaserJock> I guess that is a separate implementation detail
[03:43] <LaserJock> but it would be good if Ubiquity could be used to change what packages get removed
[03:44] <stgraber> for the bundles, I guess the easiest would be to install them in all cases and remove them
[03:44] <stgraber> right
[03:44] <LaserJock> so picking an app bundle or two would remove the remainder
[03:44] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:00] <Ahmuck-Jr> Happy New Year!
[06:02] <alkisg> Happy New Year
[14:40] <Dafna> http://www.edubuntu.org/Download has not been updated to refer to version 9.10
[17:42]  * HedgeMage peeks in
[19:38] <HedgeMage> Anyone awake?
[19:38] <HedgeMage> I need a second opinion on something.
[19:58] <alkisg> !ask
[19:58] <alkisg> HedgeMage: ^^
[19:59] <HedgeMage> Yeah, yeah, yeah... I want to pm the link to someone because I'm not sure I like it enough to be logged for posterity :P
[19:59]  * HedgeMage is a very self-conscious designer, especially since she's really a developer trying to do a bad imitation of design :P
[20:00] <HedgeMage> alkisg: So, up for looking at a VERY rough draft of what I think I'll suggest for a new edubuntu.org design?
[20:00]  * HedgeMage needs feedback
[20:00] <alkisg> HedgeMage: sure!
[20:01] <alkisg> But also send PMs at least to sbalneav and highvolt1ge :)
[20:01] <HedgeMage> alkisg: I already sent it to highvoltage via jabber.
[20:01] <alkisg> ...and stgraber
[20:01] <HedgeMage> I haven't seen any sign that sbalneav is online, so I'll send him a link when I see him.  I already jabbered stgraber.
[20:01] <alkisg> Wow, very refreshing
[20:02] <alkisg> I love it! Maybe the main text could be a tag bigger?
[20:03] <HedgeMage> Yeah, it needs lots more work...I'm just trying to see if folks like the general concept before I put tons of polishing time in.
[20:03] <HedgeMage> That way, if it needs a major change, I can do it and spend that polishing time on an idea we'll actually use
[20:03] <alkisg> And I think it needs some other icon to "break" the monotony, but sure, I think it's great!
[20:04] <HedgeMage> Thanks :D
[20:04] <alkisg> It's modern and refreshing but still suitable for also adults
[20:06]  * HedgeMage beams
[20:06] <alkisg> HedgeMage: can that be done as a drupal theme, or whatever it is that we're using for our webpage?
[20:07] <HedgeMage> Yes, I do drupal development for a living, that's why I volunteered when highvolt1ge started talking about upgrading the site.
[20:08] <alkisg> Ah right I remember now, sorry :)
[20:09] <alkisg> (it shows that I haven't put any work in our webpage etc :D)
[20:10] <HedgeMage> lol np
[20:37] <Ahmuck-Jr> any chance of having a bug day each week?
[20:37] <Ahmuck-Jr> or bi-weekly?
[20:45] <alkisg> Heh... if we can fund sbalneav's days off work, sure :P :D
[20:53] <HedgeMage> hehe
[21:00] <HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Jr: any opinion on: http://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  -- it's very very rough, but I guess I'm brave enough to show it around in here now.
[21:02] <Ahmuck-Jr> for edubuntu new website?
[21:03] <HedgeMage> Yes.  It's just a first draft of my idea, nothing official.
[21:05] <HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Jr: thoughts?
[21:05] <Ahmuck-Jr> i like it
[21:06] <HedgeMage> :D
[21:07] <HedgeMage> Hopefully, highvolt1ge, stgraber, and sbalneav will pop in today so I can get their opinions.
[21:08] <HedgeMage> The mockup still needs lots of work, but I don't want to put in too much until I get any major changes they might have (or find out I should scrap it and start again)
[22:35] <stgraber> HedgeMage: pong
[22:36] <HedgeMage> stgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only
[22:36] <HedgeMage> crud
[22:36] <HedgeMage> sorry, mispaste
[22:37] <HedgeMage> stgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only
[22:37] <HedgeMage> grrr
[22:37] <HedgeMage> http://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  <-- that is the URL
[22:38] <HedgeMage> stgraber: ^^^  (Please ignore the broken pastes, this is the URL I wanted you to see)
[22:41] <stgraber> general layout looks good, I'm just a bit worried of how it'd appear on a netbook screen (1024x600) with these two blocks at the top
[22:42] <stgraber> though I guess it's a usuall issue with netbook screens so something the netbook users are quite used to ;)
[22:44] <HedgeMage> stgraber: The two blocks on the top would only appear on the front page, and only to anonymous (not logged in) users, at least according to my current concept :)
[22:44] <stgraber> great
[22:44] <stgraber> that'd be the equivalent to our current release announcement blocks I guess ?
[22:45] <HedgeMage> My thought was to use the square for that, and use the larger rectangle to tell new visitors what edubuntu is and point them to overview pages for parents, teachers, etc.
[22:45] <stgraber> yep, sounds good
[22:46] <HedgeMage> brb, laundry
[22:47] <stgraber> something else to be careful about I guess is the vast range of currently used screen resolutions as we have users on screen ranging from 10" 1024x600 (netbooks) to the kind of screens I have here and at the office (24" at 1920x1080). That was an issue with the previous design (at there was a max-width set in px making most of the screen unused)
[22:49] <HedgeMage> stgraber: The header will not expand (to do so would require a use of SVG that would make the page crash for IE users), it will just be centered.  The rest will be fluid (grow to fit the browser area, with a small margin to make it look nice)
[22:50] <HedgeMage> stgraber: At least, that's the plan.  I'm still at the seeking info phase, and I haven't even gotten to show this to highvolt1ge yet, as he's afk.
[22:50] <HedgeMage> s/info/opinions/
[22:56] <HedgeMage> stgraber: if highvolt1ge and sbalneav are as happy with the general concept as you, alkisg, Ahmuck-Jr, and pygi seem to be, I'll flesh it out quite a bit more and pass it around again.
[23:00] <stgraber> cool
[23:01] <stgraber> having the logo centered is fine as long as the rest of the page expand correctly, what I hate is having content at the middle of the screen that must be split so it fits and have 50% of the screen completely empty because of fixed width
[23:02] <HedgeMage> highvolt1ge mentioned wanting to get this out in the next month or so, and I'm moving soon (a very time-consuming operation), so I'm hoping to get this hashed out sooner rather than later.
[23:02] <HedgeMage> stgraber: Yes, fixed-with themes are a pet peeve of mine as well.
[23:03] <HedgeMage> The thing that bugs me is that people don't make them because they look better or are easier to use, they make them because they are easier to code.
[23:04] <stgraber> yeah, I've been converting the Ubuntu theme from fixed width to variable width (the theme currently on brainstorm.u.c) and it's a pain to make something that works correctly on all browsers (we had to support IE6 at the time ...)
[23:05]  * HedgeMage nods
[23:06] <stgraber> the issue is usually to get a CSS that works just as well on IE and on FF, I guess now that IE6 is supposed to be gone (even Microsoft tries to get rid of it), it should make things slightly easier
[23:06] <alkisg> IE6 gone? There are a lot of w2k clients out there... :(
[23:06] <HedgeMage> alkisg: they can get an update to 7 from MS for free.
[23:06] <alkisg> HedgeMage: nope
[23:06] <alkisg> IE7 is only for >= XP
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: oh?  Why not?
[23:07] <HedgeMage> ahh
[23:07]  * HedgeMage doesn't really follow the windoze world
[23:07]  * alkisg had to support windows apps + sites for a long, long time. :(
[23:07] <alkisg> My site is even tested in IE4 :(
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: Well, they'll have to live with it -- we can make things degrade as gracefully as possible, but if we halt progress because some users can't be bothered tomove on, we all lose.
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: eww
[23:08] <alkisg> Heh
[23:08] <alkisg> Yeah sure I was just mentioning it, I didn't mean that it was something important :D
[23:08] <stgraber> I used to care for >= IE6, now I changed that to be >= IE7, it cuts the amount of hack required for specific browsers by half at least ;)
[23:08] <HedgeMage> Yep
[23:08] <stgraber> and for these still using IE6, they aren't very likely to go to my sites anyway or they'll need to install FF ;)
[23:09] <HedgeMage> hrm...I'd really like to work on this some more since I have some time today, but it bothers me that I haven't gotten to run it past highvolt1ge and sbalneav yet.
[23:10] <stgraber> maybe you'll see sbalneav online a bit later today but it's a lot less likely for highvolt1ge (it's 1am in South Africa)
[23:10]  * HedgeMage nods